Is Bhakti useless?

[Guest guest]

After all, we only get the results of our Karma, so why waste time

praying?

 

S Kumar

[Guest guest]

Yes, we have born with our karma and further accumulate it during our

life time that determines our life. Yet, the purpose of life is to wipe

out all karma by selfless action and renunciation of fruits of action (

in fact, that is the true prayer! ) so that not only we gain peace and

harmony during life time but also go out of the cycles of birth and

death and attain Liberation. No, we are not here to suffer karma but to

overcome it for the good of self and others.

 

 

, s_kumar_12345 <no_reply wrote:

>

> After all, we only get the results of our Karma, so why waste time

> praying?

>

> S Kumar

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, s_kumar_12345 <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear S Kumarji,

 

Namaste!

 

I agree with you that after all everything is karmic so no need to

pray but all these people who pray do not know the law of karma

besides those who know feel that praying will help them to ease the

pain of karmic suffering so what harm is there if one prays?

Truly speaking they say TERA BAANA MITHA LAGE which loosely

translated means " I am happy in thy will " so just keep doing your

duty and meditate. I read somewhere PRAYER IS TALKING TO GOD AND

MEDITATION IS LISTENING TO GOD so why not do latter i.e. meditate

but it is very tough so prayer is what more easy way out.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> After all, we only get the results of our Karma, so why waste time

> praying?

>

> S Kumar

>

[Guest guest]

Kumarji , Karma is action.Our actions in all preveous lives are at our credit.

Positive karma and negative karma can algebrically summed like + karma and -

karma.= x.

Bhakti multiplies ,adds,or progresses x to an advantageous sum.

God is kind.

OM NAMO NAARAAYANAAYA

ijswamy

 

s_kumar_12345 <no_reply > wrote:

After all, we only get the results of our Karma, so why waste time

praying?

 

S Kumar

 

 

 

 

 

 

~SWAMY

http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, s_kumar_12345 <no_reply wrote:

> After all, we only get the results of our Karma, so why waste time

> praying?

 

Kumarji, you have made the classical mistake that most people, even so

called " Acharyas " & " Pandits " make.

 

In the Gita, Krishna talks about one Yoga, not 3 separate(Gyan, Bhakti

& Karma). This is how medieval scholars like Shankaracharya, Ramanajun

Madhav etc may have protrayed it, but if you read the original Gita,

this is not so.

 

The choice for Arjun is not between doing Gyan Yoga or Bhakti Yoga, or

doing just Karma Yoga & ignoring Bhakti. It is not the choice he has

to choose between dry intellectual Gyan on one hand, & fanatic Bhakti

on the other.

 

The choice is- should Arjun( & us) do his Dharma & face the forces of

negativity bravely, or should he take the easier, cowards way out &

run away(which is what Arjun was trying to do, & what every Yogi,

Swami, Sadhu has been doing- running away from world as they are too

scared to face it).

 

Arjun had to do his Karma(which was to kill his enemies), but he had

to do it with Gyan(the knowledge that ultimately no one dies or is

born, as everything is Pure Spirit), as well as Bhakti, that he was

doing the Lords Will.

 

He had to had the wisdom to know that he wasnt doing anything, it was

just God working through him, as well as devotion to God, so his ego

didnt try to take credit for Gods work(which would entangle him in

Karma & rebirth). This is the real Karma Yoga- doing Gods work with

Wisdom, Love & Devotion.

 

So we cannot do Karma Yoga if dont have Bhakti, as then the work will

be for our ego. Neither can we do it without Gyan, as then we will not

be able to realise it is the Purusha(Shiv, Narayan) working through us

via his Prakriti(Maya, Shakti, Ma).

 

This is the message of the Gita.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Blessed Selves!

 

I think Karma is not the only thing that governs our lives. We descend on

earth propelled by our prarabda karma, no doubt. But, we do have free-will to

alter the course of karma and our good deeds might have the effect of deflecting

the course of karma. Despite your efforts, if you suffer, it only shows how

strong is your karma. Therefore, it should be understood that karma does not

operate in a machanical fashion. There could be exceptions to this rule in

deserving cases. One need to slog hard to come out of it. Thiruvalluvar says

that one could get over destiny or Ooll, as he calls it, if only he slogs

incessantly against it.

 

Besides the forces of karma and free-will, there is yet another factor which

can completely shield you from these two. It is called the 'grace' of God or

Guru. It is said that karma was accepted as a tenet of faith in all the

religions including the christianity and it was only in the Second

Constantinople Conference, the idea of karma was given up in order that 'grace'

of 'their Lord' is given a place of pre-eminence. In Hindu theology, as I

understood, the grace of God or that of Guru is never regarded as less

important. Every individual, whether learned or unlettered, prays fervently

before God for his grace to wipe out his karma and for His protection in the

face of the adverse effects of karma and such faith does keep him in good stead,

in the face of adversity. One never has any doubt about the power of bhakti and

potency of His grace. Hence, there ought to be no contradition among such

concepts like karma, free-will and grace. Karma is the result of action with

desire for result; free-will is the action on your part, to get rid of the

consequences of the karma and grace is the fruit of your surrender before the

Almighty, which shall shield you immediatley from the effects of karma and

finally wipe out the karma completely.

 

Am I right ? I am guided by the speech of Swami Satyananda Saraswati, which is

reported in one of the recent issues of Yoga Magazine published by the Bihar

School of Yoga.

 

Hari Om! tat sat!

 

ulaganathan

 

shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

, s_kumar_12345 <no_reply wrote:

> After all, we only get the results of our Karma, so why waste time

> praying?

[Guest guest]

, ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote:

>

> Blessed Selves!

>

> I think Karma is not the only thing that governs our lives. We d

 

ulaganathanji, Is grace given to everyone who asks for it? In which

case it would become just a mechanical habit/law, & hence no longer be

called grace.

 

On the other hand, if it is too difficult to get grace, people will

lose faith.

 

So how does God balance between these 2 extremes? Can you pls shed

some light on this?

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Dear Shantnuji,

 

It is my understanding that every time one prays and for every one who prays,

the prayer is granted. Grace does not necessarily mean that your prayer is

granted and grace might be given unto you, even while your prayers are not

granted. Mother Durga knows what is good and what is not. Hence, Swami

Satyananda in the Satchandi yagna, that he performed at Rikhia, Jharkhand

cautioned us while asking a boon from Mother. He said instead of asking for a

specific boon, one must ask for the grace of Mother. Mother knows what is good

and bad for her children. Hence, I am convinced that even when my specific

prayers are not fulfilled, I am not put off and do not consider that as a

rejection of my prayer. Mother might feel that whatever I have asked for from

her is not good for me and hence she would not have the heart to sanction it.

Even the suffering and battering that we encounter are akin to what the

biological mother does to her children, to mend their ways. Hence, whether we

got the grace of God or Mother Durga should not be judged by the boons granted

to us by Him/Her. To a bhakta, nothing that happens to him, even death can be

regarded as a curse. All that befalls him is a grace of God. Even death is an

opportunity to escape misery in this birth.

 

Am I right?

 

ulaganathan p

 

shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

, ulaganathan p

ulaganathanji, Is grace given to everyone who asks for it? In which

[Guest guest]

> Am I right?

>

Yes ulaganathanji, I agree. I remember this saying:

 

" Without asking, one gets milk. By asking, one gets water. By

snatching, one gets blood " .

 

If we are totally dependent on the Mother, she will give us the best

thing there is, her milk. Since we dont know whats good for us, if we

ask, it will be something inferior like water, when we could have had

milk.

 

By stealing, we get blood, like vampires, which is what modern

civilisation has become. It is continually attacking Mother Nature, &

sucking her blood. Such vampirism has pushed us away from our real

selves, the Sun of Truth.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHNA ,HARE RAMA

 

> Besides the forces of karma and free-will, there is yet another

factor which can completely shield you from these two. It is called

the 'grace' of God or Guru.

 

Great postings by everybody

 

 

here how can one get a enlightened Guru or the Grace of the God

directly .i think one need to do bhakti which is greter than Karma in

terms of its impact or i can say Bhakti is more powerfull . but

everybody can not do bhakti , hence they are supposed to do niskam

karma too . what is your opinion Sir Ji

 

HARE KRISHNA ,HARE KRISHNA ,KRISHNA KRISHNA ,HARE HARE ,HARE

RAMA ,HARE RAMA ,RAMA RAMA ,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

> directly .i think one need to do bhakti which is greter than Karma in

> terms of its impact or i can say Bhakti is more powerfull . but

 

 

I dont think Gyan or Bhakti are more powerful than Karma, or each other.

 

The Yoga of the Gita involves creating a balance between these 3

methods- Knowledge, Devotion and Works. As I wrote in an earlier post,

these cannot be done exclusively, as there is no devotion if it doesnt

make you want to work in world to help others(karma), nor can there be

any knowledge if it doesnt make one feel immense Love for the World &

its creator(Bhakti).

 

The Gita teaches 1 Yoga, not 3.

 

with love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Enjoy reading the article:

 

" A Drop Becomes the Ocean: Bhakti and the Art of Living " - at

 

http://www.exoticindia.com/article/bhakti_sutras

 

Radhe, Radhe!

 

, s_kumar_12345 <no_reply wrote:

>

> After all, we only get the results of our Karma, so why waste time

> praying?

>

> S Kumar

>

[Guest guest]

, pyari_h <no_reply wrote:

>

Hello Pyari,

 

Namaste!

 

In your previous posting as well as in this " exoticindia " when

this site is clicked what you get it THIS SITE PRESENTLY UNAVAILABLE

NOW. Could you kindly check on that please.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

> Enjoy reading the article:

>

> " A Drop Becomes the Ocean: Bhakti and the Art of Living " - at

[Guest guest]

> In your previous posting as well as in this " exoticindia " when

> this site is clicked what you get it THIS SITE PRESENTLY UNAVAILABLE

> NOW. Could you kindly check on that please.

 

I can open the site Sudhakarji, must be a problem on your server.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHNA ,HARE RAMA

 

 

> The Gita teaches 1 Yoga, not 3.

>

Sir Ji

 

i have written that bhakti is more powerfull than karma .

 

in karam Yoga there is a union of sakam karmas with niskam karmas

than wisdom and than parabhakti

 

Yogastha kuru karmani sangam tyaktava dhananjaya

sidhishidhiyo samo bhutva samatvam yog uchate

 

in jnan yoga there is a union of knowledge with wisdom than

parabhakti

 

in bhakti yoga there is a union of Bhakti with parabhakti directly

 

hence if you compare sakam karmas with bhakti than i would say Sir

ji bhakti is definentely powerfull . what is the meaning of power .

power means the target is achieved in less time . eg if a car is

more powerfull than other it means same speed is achieved faster by

that vehicle which has more power .

 

 

but it does not mean that i am saying that everybody should go for

Bhakti Yoga because everybody can not do that. Lord Sri Krishna

himself said than do karmas for me IF you can not meditate ,.......

 

 

 

HARE KRISHNA ,HARE KRISHNA ,KRISHNA KRISHNA ,HARE HARE,HARE

RAMA ,HARE RAMA ,RAMA RAMA , HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja wrote:

 

> i have written that bhakti is more powerfull than karma .

 

I have seen this thinking too frequently. Gyanis say " If you are not

fit for Gyan, do Bhakti " . Bhaktas say " If you are not for Bhakti, do

Gyan " . And both of them consider Karma Yoga as inferior, for worldly

people who know not better, who are not yet fit for their Gyan/Bhakti.

 

Jitendarji, 1st thing is Sakam Karma(doing Karma for results) is not

Karma Yoga. By definition, Karma Yoga is doing actions without desire

for results.

 

If you think this is easy, try to do this. Karma Yoga has 2 main

techniques:

 

1. Every time you do anything, offer it to God. This must be done 24

hours, before every single action. Similarly, if anything good or bad

happens to you, accept it as prasad of God- even if you get a beating,

you cannot get angry, even inside, as it is Gods gift to you.

Try to do this for 1 day- after 10 minutes you will get tired & leave

it, or forget about it.

 

2. The 2nd way to do Karma Yoga is to let body/mind do its work, but

keeping awareness within. This can be done staying in witness state(or

Sakshi Bhaav) while doing work - the key here is our work shouldnt

suffer: Since we are not the body or mind, we should be able to keep

our awareness within, even while the body & mind do their work. Again

this has to be done 24 hours- even while sleeping, as only the body

sleeps, not our Conciousness.

Try this for 5 minute- you will get a headache!

 

 

>

> but it does not mean that i am saying that everybody should go for

> Bhakti Yoga because everybody can not do that. Lord Sri Krishna

> himself said than do karmas for me IF you can not meditate ,.......

 

Karma Yoga isnt an " easy " or " soft " version of the more powerful Gyan

or Bhakti Yoga.

 

As I wrote, the choice for Arjun ( & hence our soul), is not that

either he should do his Karma & fight , or he should Bhakti of Krishna.

The choice he has is either to run away from his dharma, or do his

Karma, but with no attachment to the results, with the Gyan that he is

doing Gods work, & with love & devotion towards that God.

This involves Gyan, Bhakti & Karma Yoga together.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHNA ,HARE RAMA

 

> > Jitendarji, 1st thing is Sakam Karma(doing Karma for results) is

 

Sir ji ,

 

i have written

 

in karam Yoga there is a union of sakam karmas with niskam karmas

than wisdom and than parabhakti

 

and i have not written Karma Yoga is doing Sakam Karmas ..

 

i know it that niskam karmas means karmas without kamna or desire

 

but what i means Sir ji

 

 

what is the meaning of Yoga

 

Union of our untruth with truth , untruth is eaten by the truth .

 

is it possible to get truth without knowing what is untruth .

 

Karma yoga

 

a practical approach ...

 

 

our nature is to do sakam karmas generally , but when we will reach

into the state of no karmas than in that case sakam karmas would be

eaten by the Niskama karmas .

union of sakam karmas with niskam karmas means Sir Ji a person does

not recognize that He is doing karmas . sakam karmas are dissolved

into niskam karmas . Lord Sri Krishna also does Karmas but it is also

said that He is beyond Karmas . How both contradictory statements are

possible . these statements are possible only when He does not

recognize Karmas but karmas are done by Him .

 

 

How in the begining it is possible to be desireless because the state

of desirelessness is very much difficult and it is achieved at the end

of the Yoga . but in the process of Yoga we CONSTANTLY THINK that i am

not doing for the result or i do not have any desire for my work . in

the process of Yoga there are thoughts of the desire(which we can not

eraze by rubber ) and there should be thoughts of desirelesss too( BY

CONSTANTLY TAKING OUR MIND AWAY FROM RESULTS BY INTELLECT) . the

desireless thought should eat the thoughts of desire to get progress

in yoga .

otherwise everybody is doing karma Yoga

 

till a person is recognising that He is doing Niskam karmas has not

fullfilled the purpose of Yoga . he is still in Yoga

 

what i have written is the state of Karm Yoga the state of Union of

sakam karmas with the niskam karmas is that state in which a person

stop recognizing that He is doing Karma , but in that state He chant

the name of the Lord Sri Krishna

 

further ...... discussion is continued Sir Ji..........

 

HARE KRISHNA ,HARE KRISHNA ,KRISHNA KRISHNA ,HARE HARE,HARE RAMA ,HARE

RAMA ,RAMA RAMA ,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

> Devi Bhakti

 

Swami Satyadharma Saraswati

 

The Srimad Devi Bhagavatam is one of the Mahapuranas or ancient

texts of Indian literature. This voluminous text is dedicated

entirely to the wisdom, worship and stories of Sri Devi Bhagavati,

the universal Mother and creatrix of all manifest and unmanifest

existence. Now listen to the divine exposition of bhakti given by

Sri Devi in Book 7, Chapter 28.

 

Sri Devi said: There are three paths leading to moksha: karma yoga,

jnana yoga and bhakti yoga. Of these three, bhakti yoga is the

easiest path in all respects. Through the practice of bhakti people

can bring their minds to a perfect point of concentration without

incurring any physical suffering or hardship.

 

Apara bhakti is of three types which correspond to the three gunas.

Bhakti is tamasic when it is tainted by anger, jealousy or pride, or

when performed with the intention of inflicting harm or pain upon

others. But bhakti becomes rajasic when practised for one's own

benefit or welfare, without any intention of harming others. This

kind of devotee may have some desire or aim in view, such as name

and fame, freedom from difficulty or the attainment of certain

objects of enjoyment. With such an object in mind, he worships me

with the greatest devotion, ignorantly thinking himself to be

separate from me.

 

Bhakti is sattwic when my worship is performed for the sake of

purification and for the welfare of others. This type of devotee

offers the fruit of all his practices and actions to me, but still

regards himself as separate from me. He worships me in the

prescribed ways, knowing that these actions are authorized by the

Vedas and, therefore, must be observed. This type of sattwic bhakti

is different from para bhakti or supreme devotion because the

devotee thinks of me as separate. But it leads to para bhakti, while

the other two forms of bhakti do not.

 

Now listen to the description of para bhakti. The highest bhakta is

one who ever hears my glories and recites my name, and whose mind

dwells steadily in me, like a constant flow of oil. This devotee is

the receptacle of all auspicious qualities and does not retain even

the slightest trace of desire for the fruit of his actions. He does

not even wish for the attainment of the higher states of bhakti,

such as salokya, sarsti, samipya and sayujna, or any other forms of

liberation. He is filled with devotion for me alone and worships me

only. He knows of nothing higher than serving me and has no desire

to attain moksha. He never likes to forsake the idea of sevaka (one

who serves) and sevya (one to be served).

 

This devotee of mine, who always meditates on me with one-pointed

awareness, is charged with divine bliss, which arises from the

feeling of supreme love. He loves me as he loves himself, and does

not consider himself as separate from me, but rather thinks `I am

the Bhagavati'. Considering the entire creation as my form, he makes

no differentiation between all beings and myself. He respects all

beings equally, even those of the lowest class, because he

experiences the same consciousness manifested everywhere and in all.

Thus he never quarrels with anybody, as he has abandoned all

feelings of separateness and individuality.

 

This devotee is filled with the highest love whenever he sees my

abodes, attends my devotions, hears my stories, or meditates on my

mantras or names. His hair stands on end and tears flow ceaselessly

from his eyes out of love for me. He worships me with intense

feeling as the Mother of the universe and the cause of all causes.

He observes my vows, performs my yajnas and participates in my

festivals without any miserliness in regard to time or expenditure.

He sings my name loudly and dances with the intoxication of my love.

He has no egoism and is free from bodily identification, thinking

that he is not the body. Considering that whatever is his destiny

must come to pass, he experiences no fear or agitation for the

preservation of the body.

 

In para bhakti the prominent thought is of the Devi, and no other

idea arises. One whose heart is filled with such para bhakti is

immediately dissolved in my consciousness. One who surrenders in

devotion entirely to me goes to my abode, Manidvipa, the island of

jewels, and there, even though unwilling, enjoys all the possible

objects of enjoyment.

 

At the end of this period he receives the knowledge of my

consciousness, and through that jnana attains final liberation

forever. Without that knowledge, final liberation would not be

possible. Thus, in Manidvipa the knowledge of oneness arises, and

through that jnana my bhakta becomes free from bondage and rebirth.

 

from: http://www.yogamag.net/archives/2005/cmar05/devibhak.shtml

<http://www.yogamag.net/archives/2005/cmar05/devibhak.shtml>

 

Happy Mothers Day to all of you on May 11, 2008

 

Jaya Sri Radhe!