Guest guest Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 AGAMAS- WHICH SHAPED BHARAT- part 1 Have you ever given a thought why the religious landscape of Bharat remained almost intact even after a thousand years of suppression by Muslim and Christian invaders ? Do you think it was the power of Vedas , Upanishads and the Gita and our people's knowledge in our fundamentals ? NOPE.. It was by the singular attachment of the lay Hindu towards HIS God, that we are still alive as heirs to Hinduism. How did the common man develop so much attachment to his God, silently suffering under the brutal suppression of the worst enemies of Humanity then and now ? It was by the Agamas. I now present to you all a forgotten heredity of us all which has helped shape the spiritual landscape of Bharat. The essence of this heredity are a series of divine scriptures. They are AGAMAS. When you propose to build a house, (especially in South India), the plot is chosen by its straightness, the length and width. They have to be in certain measure of feet. Then the direction of the site. Then the house plan. Specially here, the location of the sump, the kitchen, the bedroom, the bathroom are finalized only after consulting vasthu.. Vasthu science was given to us by the Agamas. All the temple rites are given to us by the Agamas. Even your daily arathi and the Murthis and photos you worship are given to us by the Agamas. In short temple worship was started by the Agamas only. Agama literally means coming down. Agamas were built into the society rather than accepted and studied. Such has been their subtlety. For example, the adage , " do not reside in a village that has no temple " is a direct Agamic edict that is followed to this day by every Hindu without himself studying anything about it. The society itself is built up on such edicts. Have you ever wondered why you stand up in front of the deity with your palms joined and raised to the level of the chest in such a way that the lower joint of the thumbs point towards the solar plexus ? Also , why do we go around the prakara of the temple in a particular way ? Why do we adorn specific religious symbols such as Vibhuti, kumkum , Chandan and Gobi on our foreheads ? The answers to all the above are in the Agamas . The three major sects of Hinduism have separate agamas. In fact each have many. Saiva sects have as many as twenty eight ( Tamil and kashmir sects). Vaishnava sects have two main agamas namely pancharatra and Vaikanasa. Similarly Saktha sects have their own. The power of Agamas is so great that, though these sects treat the vedas with respect, they do not consider the vedas to be their authority in their sect. Saiva Siddhantha people will resent if you thrust vedic thoughts on them. In the 10 th century AD, Yamunacharya, the founder of Vaishnavism as a sect wrote a treatise explaining why Vedas do not matter for his sect. Agamas are self sufficient literature in that they cover the man's life from cradle to grave. Even minute details such as brushing the teeth, selection of sticks for brushing etc are given. If you ever see some rites in a funeral , never laugh anymore. They are the direct links of the man and his antique forefathers. These agamas are principally in Sanskrit. The Tamil people developed the grantha lipi for writing the Sanskrit Slokas and till today they are in Grantha form and not in Devanagari ! for details see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grantha_script> Today, the granthas are known only to a class of temple archakas known as kurukkal. I interviewed one kurukkal a few days back and what he told me shook me. He said that he studied for five years in a patashala to learn Agamas alone. And also he told me that he had nothing to do with Vedas. Remember , the archakas are also brahmins, who do trikala Sandhyavandanam with gayatri. He further said that they are proficient in grantha and have written examinations in grantha ! The only people allowed to do consecretion of temples are kurukkals and the only mantras chanted are Agama mantras. The Indonesian Hindus call themselves as Agamic Hindus. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Indonesia> Agmas teach tantric philosophy. What is tantra ? We will see that in the next part. Venkat Click to join Gita_dharshan J.Venkatasubramanian Join Bhagavad Gita study group- Gita_dharshan Gita_dharshan 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to http://help./l/in//mail/mail/tools/tools-08.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Venkatji, some comments: > Vasthu science was given to us by the Agamas. Vastu actually comes from the Vedas, specifically detailed in Atharva Veda. It is an Upavdeda(sub Veda) Sthapatya Veda(or Science of architecture), along with Ayurveda. > All the temple rites are given to us by the Agamas. Even your daily > arathi and the Murthis and photos you worship are given to us by the > Agamas. In short temple worship was started by the Agamas only. Most Pujaris do a mixture of mantras from Vedas, Upanishads, Agamas, even later texts like Hanuman chalisa. It depends on the knoweldge of Pujari, not on any fixed rule. > Have you ever wondered why you stand up in front of the deity with > your palms joined and raised to the level of the chest in such a way > that the lower joint of the thumbs point towards the solar plexus ? All this can be explained earlier Vedic Yoga too, though it was more specially developed by Agamas, I can accept that. > The power of Agamas is so great that, though these sects treat the > vedas with respect, they do not consider the vedas to be their > authority in their sect. Saiva Siddhantha people will resent if you > thrust vedic thoughts on them. In the 10 th century AD, >Yamunacharya,the founder of Vaishnavism as a sect wrote a treatise >explaining why Vedas do not matter for his sect. Again, it depends. Individual Gurus might feel that way, but that doesnt mean whole communities. For example, the most popular Vaishnav sect is the Gaudiya Math(Hare Krishnas are part of them), who clearly accept the Vedas as their authority. And Kashmiri Shaivs accept the Gita as one of their main texts, they have their own commentary on it. > Agamas are self sufficient literature in that they cover the man's > life from cradle to grave. Even minute details such as brushing the The reason Vedas went out of fashion was due to their extreme ritualism. Why replace one set of rituals for another? > Agmas teach tantric philosophy. What is tantra ? We will see that in > the next part. If you have been following my posts, I have consitently tried to demolish the myth that Tantras & Vedas are oppposed, or separate, or even different paths. As has been shown by Sri Aurobindo, Ganapati Muni, Kapali Shastry, & in modern times, David Frawley, Tantric(or Agamic) rituals/practices were mainly extensions/variations of Vedic ones, & not anything new. But maybe Im wrong. I just follow one set of Gurus, while you follow another. But I believe my approach is more integral- it doesnt need to reject anything. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Shantnu ji, Thanks for your learned comments. Like you I am a non Agamist exploring into its fascinating study. The more I learn of Agamas, the more awe struck I am. I have come to respect the Agamas primarily since they are the spiritual guidebooks of the non brahmins ( though they are in Sanskrit and now in possession of brahmins). Though a brahmin myself, I hate to see everything spiritual being allied with brahmins. Agamas gave me the answer to my lifelong question as to how the nation retained its religious identity despite such economic deprivation. More answers to your remarks interspersed +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > You wrote; > > Most Pujaris do a mixture of mantras from Vedas, Upanishads, Agamas, > even later texts like Hanuman chalisa. It depends on the knoweldge of > Pujari, not on any fixed rule. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Agamas, I have learnt, use many Vedic mantras. For example- the Sri rudram and mantra pushpam. They have adapted many Vedic practices like Arghyam, Sandhya , Gayatri, Achamanam, Prashanam, Yagya etc. I would rather decide on the ability of the priest after asking which Agama he learnt. In Authentic Tamilnadu Siva and Vaishnava temples, like Chidambaram, Thiruvaiyaru, Sri Rangam etc, there is no deviation from Agamas! I have heard in Pandaripur, pilgrims hug Panduranga and in Kashi , the Bhakthas do abhishek to Viswanath. But, in South, the sanctum is out of bounds to others except the Archaka- again an Agamic edict. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Have you ever wondered why you stand up in front of the deity with > > your palms joined and raised to the level of the chest in such a way > > that the lower joint of the thumbs point towards the solar plexus ? > > All this can be explained earlier Vedic Yoga too, though it was more > specially developed by Agamas, I can accept that. > > > > The power of Agamas is so great that, though these sects treat the > > vedas with respect, they do not consider the vedas to be their > > authority in their sect. Saiva Siddhantha people will resent if you > > thrust vedic thoughts on them. In the 10 th century AD, > >Yamunacharya,the founder of Vaishnavism as a sect wrote a treatise > >explaining why Vedas do not matter for his sect. > > Again, it depends. Individual Gurus might feel that way, but that > doesnt mean whole communities. For example, the most popular Vaishnav > sect is the Gaudiya Math(Hare Krishnas are part of them), who clearly > accept the Vedas as their authority. And Kashmiri Shaivs accept the > Gita as one of their main texts, they have their own commentary on it. >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yes, I wanted to talk about ISKCON at some point. The ISKCON have said in paper that they accept Vedas, but, their overwhelming tilting in favour of Sloka 18/56, 57 of Gita has made them move away from the Vedas to the extent that there is no mention of them in any of their discourses ! In all my acquaintance with them, I had heard from the President of a local ISKCON temple that they did a vedic installation and yagya when deities Prathishta was done. Even then, there was more of sarcasm in the way he explained the affair. In the way they call Hindus as 'they' we can understand, what they stand for. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Agamas are self sufficient literature in that they cover the man's > > life from cradle to grave. Even minute details such as brushing the > > The reason Vedas went out of fashion was due to their extreme > ritualism. Why replace one set of rituals for another? > > > Agmas teach tantric philosophy. What is tantra ? We will see that in > > the next part. > > If you have been following my posts, I have consitently tried to > demolish the myth that Tantras & Vedas are oppposed, or separate, or > even different paths. As has been shown by Sri Aurobindo, Ganapati > Muni, Kapali Shastry, & in modern times, David Frawley, Tantric(or > Agamic) rituals/practices were mainly extensions/variations of Vedic > ones, & not anything new. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Again, as a person who has nothing 'against' the Agamas or the Vedas, I make this observation. Temple worship belongs in its entirety to Agamas. Devata puja , avahana and upastana are Vedic and clearly the predecessors of Agamas. My plain opinion is they compliment each other. As my current work is on finding the core which can unite the Hindu mass, I think I have found the one. Agamas can unite the Hindus than the Vedas. Am I child like in this belief? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks again Jai Bharat Venkat > But maybe Im wrong. I just follow one set of Gurus, while you follow > another. But I believe my approach is more integral- it doesnt need to > reject anything. > > love > Shantnu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Venkatji, it is good to study the Agamas, but as extensions of Vedic knowledge, its specialisation & explanation. For example, Tantric Yoga is an extension of Patanjalis(some might say a superset) -it adds more excersises, makes the existing ones more powerful, & works with more subtle energy. Most people who disagree with Vedas havent actually read them or understood their hidden meaning. This is done not only by followers of Agams, but Vedantis who dismiss all Vedic knowledge except 10 Upanishads. Most of the so called disagreements between Tantra & Vedas are actually between sects who follow a particular narrow philosophy. And thats the problems with laying too much stress on Agams- they have led to sectarinism, narrowness and crippled thinking. You said some priets reject Vedas, & only accept Agams. This is a classic sectarian approach, whereby you reject everything that doesnt agree with your Guru or what you have decided beforehand is the truth. It is fashionable to attack the vedas as backward, dated, ritualistic texts, but this myth has been burst by Sri Aurobindo. I seriously suggest you read his book " Secret of the Veda " , else we will be talking in different language. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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