Why Kali dances on Shiva ?

[Guest guest]

Dear Shanracer and all other sadhakas.. i had put this question in YA

 

Why Mother Kali is depicted as dancing over shiva lying at her feet "

 

I think this has very deep meaning both mythologically as well as

spiritually... I request you to write what you understand by this..

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

> Why Mother Kali is depicted as dancing over shiva lying at her feet "

 

Babaji, this is deeply symbolic. Kali is a very mysterious Goddess,

misunderstood by almost everyone. Taken by many as a barbaric,

bloodthirsty Goddess, worshipped by thieves and criminals. Many people

think she is only pleased by offering blood sacrifice. Some Vaishnavs

& other sects protray her as the Goddess of lower nature, who wants to

keep us in materialism. In the West, she has been protrayed as an

erotic Goddess, & even Indians are embarrased of her nudity.

 

Before we can know why she is standing on Shiv, we need to know a bit

about what she represents.

 

Kali is the Goddess of Time and Space, who herself exists beyond them.

Kali comes from Kal, or Time. In the Universe she is the active

principle, compared to Shiv, who represents the passive principle,

also called Brahm in Vedant. Tantra says that both the active &

passive principles are equally important, unlike Vedant(as taught by

Shankar, Madhav etc) which says only passive conciousness is Real,

while Shakti is either inferior, or Maya, or false.

 

The universe is created when the male and female(passive & active)

principles separate. Shiv remains as He is, like a blank paper, on

which Kali expands as the Universe. It is Kali that descends into the

multitude of forms in the Universe. The whole universe is her game,

her dance, while Shiv remains passive, & only watches the game, but

doesnt participate in it. This is shown symbolically in the picture,

where Shiv is lying dead, while Kali is dancing on him.

 

Shiv is dead, as pure conciousness is itself inert- it doesnt create

the world, or participate in it, it only observes it. Kali dancing on

him shows that in the manifested Universe, the Female principle is

more important the the male.

 

Kalis other features, like her necklace of heads and skirt of arms

also has a deep meaning, which I will write about later.

[Guest guest]

Nicely explained.

--- shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

 

> > Why Mother Kali is depicted as dancing over shiva

> lying at her feet "

>

> Babaji, this is deeply symbolic. Kali is a very

> mysterious Goddess,

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

> Kalis other features, like her necklace of heads and skirt of arms

> also has a deep meaning, which I will write about later.

>

 

 

Thanks shantnu, I am waiting for further posts on this aspect

[Guest guest]

> Thanks shantnu, I am waiting for further posts on this aspect

 

As I wrote before, Kali is the most interesting Goddess, & also one of

most misunderstood, which is fine by her, as Kali likes the mysterious

& the unknown. Most people see her external form, & project their own

mental garbage on to her. She has been variously desrcibed as vampire

queen, bloodthirsty demoness, a Goddess of an ancient barbaric

society, an image of a sexually starved society. In fact, you can know

a lot about a person in the way they describe Kali, as they usually

impose their own psychological disturbances on to her!

 

Kali is the terrible Goddess of death & destruction, but she is also

the terrible beauty one would be willing to die for.

 

Kali is full of symbology & paradoxes. She holds both a chopped off

head and shows Abhay Mudra(which says dont be afraid). This is because

Kali kills the ego(which is what the head represents), & since all our

fears our due to the ego, once the ego dies, we become free of fear.

 

She wears a skirt of arms- left and right hands, meaning she frees us

from all Karma, good & bad. She is naked, as she wears the world as

her clothes. Her clothes are Maya, but she herself is beyond it. Her

dark color represents the state when no qualities exists- everything

is in a state of blankness.

 

Her necklace of heads is most interesting. It has 50 heads, to show

the 50 letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, with Kali being the 51st-Om.

Each Sanskrit alphabet is a Beej mantra by itself, & hence Kali is the

mistress of all Mantras, & hence all occult/Tantric knowledge.

 

Kalis tongue hangs out, flowing with blood. Many people say its

because she is embarrased at being naked, which like I said in

beginning, shows they themself are embarrased. Kali also has 2 fangs.

 

In truth, Kali does want to drink our blood. But blood is linked to

Pran, which is the main way our Ahamkar(ego) connects to our body.

Kali takes our Pran, & purifies it, so it no longer identifies with

the body, but with the cosmos, with Kali herself.

 

As such, the sacrifice required is of our own Pran & ego, not the

murder of helpless animals. There is nothing that anger Kali more than

murdering innocent creatures in her name.

 

Kali is a very mysterious Goddess- to understand her is to undestand

the Universe itself.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Shantanu,

 

Again, as usual, brilliant posting on Agamas and Kali.

Someday when you find time do some researched reporting

on Tantra and Sex. Aum and you both have posted but i feel

it is not comple yet. There is something missing. I hope you

are not being prudish to discuss further regarding the most

misunderstood topic of Tantra and Sex.

 

With warm wishes

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> > Thanks shantnu, I am waiting for further posts on this aspect

>

> As I wrote before, Kali is the most interesting Goddess, & also one

of

> most misunderstood, which is fine by her, as Kali likes the

mysterious

> & the unknown. Most people see her external form, & project their

own

> mental garbage on to her. She has been variously desrcibed as

vampire

> queen, bloodthirsty demoness, a Goddess of an ancient barbaric

> society, an image of a sexually starved society. In fact, you can

know

> a lot about a person in the way they describe Kali, as they usually

> impose their own psychological disturbances on to her!

>

> Kali is the terrible Goddess of death & destruction, but she is also

> the terrible beauty one would be willing to die for.

>

> Kali is full of symbology & paradoxes. She holds both a chopped off

> head and shows Abhay Mudra(which says dont be afraid). This is

because

> Kali kills the ego(which is what the head represents), & since all

our

> fears our due to the ego, once the ego dies, we become free of fear.

>

> She wears a skirt of arms- left and right hands, meaning she frees

us

> from all Karma, good & bad. She is naked, as she wears the world as

> her clothes. Her clothes are Maya, but she herself is beyond it. Her

> dark color represents the state when no qualities exists- everything

> is in a state of blankness.

>

> Her necklace of heads is most interesting. It has 50 heads, to show

> the 50 letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, with Kali being the 51st-

Om.

> Each Sanskrit alphabet is a Beej mantra by itself, & hence Kali is

the

> mistress of all Mantras, & hence all occult/Tantric knowledge.

>

> Kalis tongue hangs out, flowing with blood. Many people say its

> because she is embarrased at being naked, which like I said in

> beginning, shows they themself are embarrased. Kali also has 2

fangs.

>

> In truth, Kali does want to drink our blood. But blood is linked to

> Pran, which is the main way our Ahamkar(ego) connects to our body.

> Kali takes our Pran, & purifies it, so it no longer identifies with

> the body, but with the cosmos, with Kali herself.

>

> As such, the sacrifice required is of our own Pran & ego, not the

> murder of helpless animals. There is nothing that anger Kali more

than

> murdering innocent creatures in her name.

>

> Kali is a very mysterious Goddess- to understand her is to undestand

> the Universe itself.

>

> love

> Shantnu

>

[Guest guest]

> it is not comple yet. There is something missing. I hope you

> are not being prudish to discuss further regarding the most

> misunderstood topic of Tantra and Sex.

 

There is nothing prudish, Sudhakrji. I have written on sexual part of

Tantra before, I will write again.

 

In the west, & increasingly in India, Tantra has gotten mixed up with

the " Sacred sex " movement. So called " gurus " teach what they think are

secret tantric techniques. To which, George Feurenstien wrote

 

" What goes on in name of Tantra could be better classified as sex

education in the best case, & prosititution in the worst " .

 

While Tantra does have sexual portions, they are neither as important

or as central as many people make them out to be. Many sects interpret

them in esoteric ways- eg combining of Kundalni with ParaShiv at crown

chakra.

 

The left hand path, which uses sex, was built for certain type of people.

Tantra aims at breaking all our attachments. For many traditional

Hindus & Buddhists, this was atachment to Sattva. Such people were

attached to their caste, their status as pure, noble, chosen people,

as Yogis or Boddhisattvas.

 

Such people were attached to their own sense of purity. The Tantric

Guru would ask to sit in a graveyard, eat meat with untouchables. This

was meant to break their attachments to Sattva.

 

Most people nowdays are attached to Rajas/Tamas. There is no need for

them to practice left methods to break their attachment to sattva, as

they dont have any! :-D

 

There is a natural tendency of people with strong

Rajasic/Aursic(demonic) tendencies to be attracted to left handed

tantra, as an excuse to indulge in their habits under the guise of

spirituality or Tantra. It gives them ego satisfaction they are doing

something " spiritual " .

 

In Tibet, where left path was perfected, Tantra was only taught to few

students who had mastered normal Buddhist techniques, & not drunks.

Such people had been doing Sattwic meditations for years, & had

mastered them. In India, Aghoris, who practice left path, usually

require their students to practice normal Yoga with its Yama/Niyams

for some time before they are taught advanced Tantra.

 

This compared to what normally goes on in West today, where you can

attend a $500, weekend course in " Tantra " & become a " Licensed Tantric

Goddess " (I swear Im not making this up).

 

But maybe thats what God wants. Most people of Kaliyug are not fit to

practice Tantra, so Shakti is spreading such false knowledge to keep

the merely curious occupied.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Shantanu,

 

Namaste!

 

I believe you when you say, " I SWEAR IM NOT MAKING THIS UP " .

But from what i have investigated majority of these goddess are

highly educated holding degree as a nurse, masseur, etc., and they

did not get their licence on just in a weekend course. I would

welcome you to read the book, TANTRA - THE CULT OF THE FEMININE

by celebrated Yoga teacher Andre Van Lysbeth who studied yoga under

Dr. Swami SHIVANANDA of Hrishikesh. Some of the myths re AUM and

others are really mind blowing.

 

Let's face it, before the advent of Mughals to India Sex was taught

freely and people were very good at it. I myself handle so many of

these sex related problems of my students that it is a shame a

country which gave kamasutra and others to the world now its own

people are devoid of the knowledge and suffer immensely. Look at any

female magazines in India and one question will always be there -

my husband/boyfriend discharges within 3 minutes of his entering my

vagina. In answers this questions always pops up repeatedly

and i have answered it and it was seleced as the best answer. The

same concept is also mentioned in the hindi movie CHINI KUM (LESS

SUGAR) wherein heroines friend warns her gora (british) boyfriend

to learn to last long or she would find another boyfriend.

 

Interestingly a group of advisasi's of Uttar Pradesh live a fairly

open sexual life and their is hardly ever any incidence of rape or

std or aids there. To investigate this a foreigner came studied and

ended up marrying a tribal and settling down there itself.

 

About fifteen years back one gynaecologist sent a couple to me as

she had two miscarriages. You know the fate of such a woman in India

where she is looked down upon by mother-in-law and others in the

family. I taught my usual yoga with emphasis on strengthening the

pelvic girdle and she followed everything to the letter what i said

and in the end gave birth to a bonny baby boy. The grateful couple

invited me for the naming ceremony and as the boy grew up also

invited me for the thread ceremony. Ofcourse i take it in my stride

but i still feel the population should be taught about tantric sex

and claim back the glory that was in India. WHAT DO YOU SAY?

 

With warm wishes,

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

>

> Most people nowdays are attached to Rajas/Tamas. There is no need

for

> them to practice left methods to break their attachment to sattva,

as

> they dont have any! :-D

>

[Guest guest]

I would like to say that the Tantrik sex being publicised by so

called Tantriks is a hoax and innocent westerners are made fool in

the name of Tantrik Sex

 

There is no term " Tantrik-Sex " in tantra... there are 84 rituals of

Tantra out of which about 17 are done with a female partner and out

of these 17 3 or 4 involve sex.

 

These tantrik rituals do involve sexual postures, but they are not

sexual act at all.. they are very high meditation techniques to

awaken kundalini.

 

I have never found any one who has authentic practical knowledge of

those rituals.

 

Tantra has nothing to do with sex as common men know it... sex may

be a tool in tantra, but certainly not a tool to satiate the hunger

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Sudhakaraji, thats what I said- most of what goes on in name of Tantra

would better be termed sex education- & theres nothing wrong with

that. Just why do they use the word Tantra? How is getting a better

erection(as Lysbeth teaches) any help in reaching Moksha?

 

As for Andrew von Lysbeth, many people trained with Swami Shivanand.

That doesnt mean everything they teach is apprved by him! The official

student of him was Swami Satyanand Saraswati, who is also a Tantric.

He doesnt teach any sexual poses, nor does he pretend he was

authorised by Shivanand to do so.

 

>But from what i have investigated majority of these goddess are

>highly educated holding degree as a nurse, masseur, etc., and they

>did not get their licence on just in a weekend course.

 

Tantra is such a complex field- one that teaches you to look at the

dance of Shiv/Shakti in everything in the world. It is a life

affirming philosophy that believes in living in the world &

transcending it, not running away to some jungle to merge into some

Void. Its not something you can get " licensed " for. This is the sort

of arrogance that lets one think they can buy enlightenment by doing a

few days or even months course.

 

The Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, the classical manual of Tantric

meditations, gives about 113 excersises, of which 3 are to do with

sex, & one of which is " After sex, meditate where the pleasure came

from. You will find the pleasure was already inside, the sex was just

an excuse to bring it outside. Reach the source of that bliss " . Swami

Lakshman Joo, the last surviving Master of the Kashmiri Tantra school,

says the other 2 are to do with special Kundalni Yoga techniques(the

man or woman joins with his/her Kundalni, not another man/woman). But

real Gurus keep these techniques secret, which allows so called " New

Age Gurus " to make any interpretation they want.

 

The Tantra have similar excerise for eating- after enjoying a good

meal, meditate where the satisfaction came from- again, you will find

it came from inside, not from the meal. But this is no excuse to

indulge in McDonalds Happy meals!

 

Most of this " Tantric " " sex " is like McD Happy meals- it tastes good,

but ultimately it has no substance- it makes you fat without giving

you nourishment.

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Shantanu,

 

Namaste!

 

This is just to set the record straight. I said, " celebrated yoga

teacher Andre Van Lysbeth who studied yoga under Dr. Swami Shivananda

of Hrishikesh " . I never said Tantra yoga under Dr. Shivananda. In

fact Lysbeth studied tantra with somebody called Bapuji (not to be

confused with mahatma Gandhi). Lysbeth in the said book has no

where mentioned getting a better erection leads to Moksha. Apparently

you have not read the book. Please i would welcome your comments

after you read the book - TANTRA- THE CULT OF THE FEMININE. It is

different than the run of mill books written by westerners.

 

With warm wishes,

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

[Guest guest]

Sudhakrki, I read excerpts of the book. The whole of the last part is

about sexual poses.

 

But what shocked( & saddened) me even more: The author has based his

whole book on the racist, discredited Aryan Invasion theory- according

to him( & he says this several times in book) that a " white Aryan " race

invaded India, & forced Vedic culture on it. So Tantra was religon of

original " Harappans " . He even quotes a Professors from the communist

Jawaharlal University to show most of Rig Veda is the war between

these white " Aryans " & black " Harappans " . He then gives several

translations to prove this point, translations does obviously by

westerners like him in the 19th century.

 

So Vedic approach(in his book he says) is for Brahmin & Kshtriyas,

while Tantric for lower castes. Thats why they didnt like Tantra, he

says, they didnt like these lower caste types. On page 195(to show I

have actually read the book & am not just giving others opinion) he

says the Vedic Yagya is a celelbration of the butchering of the dark

skinned Harappans by white people. So Hindus are like the Nazis, we

celebrate our massacre everytime we do a Yagya.

 

The Aryan invasion theory has been spoken about several times, here &

elsewhere, so I wont repeat it.

 

Sudhakarji, it is so hard for us to fight centuries of racial

prejudice & judgements, & it doesnt help when books like this are

written.

 

I remember reading somewhere: while Americans & Europeans are

discovering Yoga in its true form, & helping to spread it, Indians

themself are happy to recycle the garbage written about them by people

who wanted to suppress them, destroy their culture. Pretty soon the

only " real " Hindus will be in USA/UK only, if this pattern continues.

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Shantanu,

 

Namaste!

 

Your posting says, I READ THE EXCERPTS OF THE BOOK. THE WHOLE OF

THE LAST PART IS ABOUT SEXUAL POSES. This is incorrect. Last part

is 6 (six) - title is Tantra for our world - it deals with

Getting Initiated in the West, A Ritual for the West and The Future

of Tantra in the west.

 

He did mention sexual poses - THE MAITHUNA ASANAS in part 4.

 

Further you say " on page 195 (to show I have actually read the book

and am not just giving others opinion) he says vedic yagya is a

celebration of the butchering of the dark skinned harappans by

white people. So Hindus are like the Nazis, we celebrate our

massacre everytime we do a yagya.

 

Here is the full page of the book:-

 

 

To Believe or not to Believe in Hindu Gods? 195

____________________

 

 

Agni, the fire god,worshipped on an almost equal footing with

Indra, is not the deification of a war her but of a local element in

the Rigveda sacrificial cult. The campfire played an essential

parft in the Aryans' nomadic lifestyle. Around such a fire would the

clan gather during halts, to bards who were later to become the

Brahmins, the master of the sacrificial fire. Thus promoted to the

status of a weapon, an instrument of war, and deified as " Agni, "

fire became a pivotal element of the worship. Agnihotra, the fire

sacrifice, is still practiced today as it was in Vedic times. I have

personally witnessed more than one such ceremony. Nevertheless,

people are careful and never say that it is in commemoration of

fire's successfully annihilating enemies (the dasas) that various

ingredients are thrown into the flames, including seeds symbolizing,

notably, the destruction of crops, towns and forts; nor are we told

that the bits of meat thrown into the fire represent enemies to be

burned.

Another mythical element of the Rigveda is soma. Indeed, even deified,

Indra, the intrepid and turbulent warrior, remains very human. That

fellow must have been fond of his liquor for the battles against

" Darkness " were preceded by boisterous bouts of drinking. The Rigveda,

in terms of boundless admiration, describes how Indra which became

" his " drink. Also included are spats with his wife who nags him as if

he were a mere mortal, for having indulged in too much drink! Which

does not prevent the other devas from guzzling soma, on the contrary!

In this paradise a la Breughel, there was never a dull moment: for

their entertainment, these Vedic gods would call in nymphs and

celestial dancers, the Apsaras, whose poetic name means " essence of

water " symbolized as clouds in the sky. During land wars-like their

Teutonic cousins, the Walkyries-they descended onto the battlefield

to recover warriors (Aryans, naturally) slain in combat: they placed

the duly adorned and flowered bodies of the fallen men on their chari-

ots and took them straight to Indra's heaven. Even during the " off-

season " the devas are depicted as fun-loving and frequently send the

nymphs on a terrestrial mission to charm, entice, and even better,

seduce, ascetics, rishis, and other forerunners of Saint Anthony:

Aryan heaven is not a place of doom and gloom and the devas certainly

enjoy painting it (bright) red!

Gradually, the already relatively sizable Aryans pantheon upon the

invasion of India, came to include a host of new " gods " (annexes had

to be added to the official celestial census!) The war of conquest

produced countless Aryan heroes who were duly deified, like Vishnu,

one of the members of the Hindu trinity. Varuna, a co-manager of

 

There is no mention of the butchering of dark skinned Harappans

by white people.

 

Anyway let us just pick what is good in the book.

To treat woman as a Goddess, improve sexual life etc., As a brahmin

myself and that too coming from priestly class i should be more

than angry but funnily enough nothing of that sort happened.

 

Have a nice day.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

 

 

 

 

>

> Sudhakrki, I read excerpts of the book. The whole of the last part

is

> about sexual poses.

[Guest guest]

Sudhakarji, in the extract you have posted, I will select some parts:

 

> personally witnessed more than one such ceremony. Nevertheless,

> people are careful and never say that it is in commemoration of

> fire's successfully annihilating enemies (the dasas) that various

> ingredients are thrown into the flames, including seeds symbolizing,

> notably, the destruction of crops, towns and forts; nor are we told

> that the bits of meat thrown into the fire represent enemies to be

> burned.

 

Here he clearly saying that Vedic Yagyas are celebrations of massacre

of Harappans, their crops, towns & forts. What else do you need? And

what Hindu offers meat in the sacred Yagya fire?

 

Then he says that Vedic Gods were " added " later on:

 

>Gradually, the already relatively sizable Aryans pantheon upon the

>invasion of India, came to include a host of new " gods " (annexes had

 

This is a an obvious myth that has been burst several times.

 

Elsewhere he says the Vedas are just stories of the Aryans butchering

the so called Dravidian race, a myth burst by Sri Aurobindo way back

in the 1920s, but it seems neither you nor him have heard of him.

 

He doesnt use openly racist language, but then no racist does.

 

I am surprised a Hindu would recommend a book that promotes the racist

Aryan Invasion theory, denigrates our most holy books- Vedas, our Gods

who he claims were just barbaric, war memorials, cooked up by a

barbaric war society.

 

You say you are not offended- I can understand. Indians have become so

used to be humilated by foreigners for 1000s years, they are now used

to kissing the whip.

 

I can understand all this " respect woman " stuff, but why does it have

to be done by insulting rest of Hinduism?

 

I have been posting messages to show essesntial unity of all Vedic

branches, which includes Tantra, for a long time. Yet it seems I was

wasting my time. So I wont post anything new any more.

 

Namaste everyone.

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Shantanu,

 

Namaste!

 

Let me clarify:- You say Indians have become so used to be

humilated by foreigner for 1000s years, they are now used to

kissing the whip. Let me state that when Hare Rama Hare Krishna

devotee quoted his gurus posting I was the first one to react

followed by Anusaya. In this book case there is no way to

inter-react so it was left as it is. By recommending the book

to you if you feel it is wrong then it is your prerogative. One

can always sieve the chaff from wheat.

 

You remarks/threat/ultimatum that you won't post anything new

anymore is depriving others who are your fans and since it is

because of me I APOLOGISE. But don't think this as my weakness.

Also self praise stinks and i do not want to tell you about my

encounters with foreigners and how i was never enamoured and

fought and argued whenever they have tried to ridicule our

scriptures and forms of worship. For justice sake i have even

sacrified my high paying salary job while dealing with these

foreigners. I do not have to trumpet about my exploits.

 

In the end let me assure you that you will never hear from me

positive or negative on your posting in future so go ahead and

do what you may.

 

With warm wishes

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

[Guest guest]

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

>

> In the end let me assure you that you will never hear from me

> positive or negative on your posting in future so go ahead and

> do what you may.

 

 

Dear sudhakar and shantnu... why do you make it a personal fight for

a book written by a foreigner ??

 

i think we must present our views... someone may reject it or accept

it.. .is not a personal insult in any way.

 

Sudhakar ji we have to learn a lot from you... and also from

shantanu... no one should deprive the group of the wisdom.. that

would be a sin

 

I have not read the book you people are referring... but i

personally reject any person/any book which mentions Aryan

Invasion...as there was never such an invasion,.. and this myth was

spread by alien invaders and further fuelled by our pseudo seculars

to keep hindus divided in two major groups. No true hindu would

ever accept this myth.

 

The other day i was shocked at Y/answers when an educated hindu

woman advised me to read " discovery of India " ...as she thought i am

ignorant hindu and the best way to understand hinduism is through

Nehru...LOL.

 

I asked a question from sudhakarji.. and it is still unanswered..

 

With love

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Dear Aum,

 

Namaste!

 

I never said, i will not contribute what little i know.

I only told him i will not pass any remark on his posting +ve or -ve,

that is all.

 

I do not recall your asking any questions to me - please repeat

unless it is " I AM SHOCKED - HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

>

> , " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9@> wrote:

> >

> > In the end let me assure you that you will never hear from me

> > positive or negative on your posting in future so go ahead and

> > do what you may.

>

>

> Dear sudhakar and shantnu... why do you make it a personal fight

for

> a book written by a foreigner ??

 

 

 

 

>

> i think we must present our views... someone may reject it or

accept

> it.. .is not a personal insult in any way.

>

> Sudhakar ji we have to learn a lot from you... and also from

> shantanu... no one should deprive the group of the wisdom.. that

> would be a sin

>

> I have not read the book you people are referring... but i

> personally reject any person/any book which mentions Aryan

> Invasion...as there was never such an invasion,.. and this myth was

> spread by alien invaders and further fuelled by our pseudo seculars

> to keep hindus divided in two major groups. No true hindu would

> ever accept this myth.

>

> The other day i was shocked at Y/answers when an educated hindu

> woman advised me to read " discovery of India " ...as she thought i am

> ignorant hindu and the best way to understand hinduism is through

> Nehru...LOL.

>

> I asked a question from sudhakarji.. and it is still unanswered..

>

> With love

>

> Aum

>

[Guest guest]

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

 

>

> I do not recall your asking any questions to me - please repeat

> unless it is " I AM SHOCKED - HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?

>

 

LOL.... sudhakarji...it is " I am shocked.. how do you know this ?

 

do you have psychic abilities or a wild guess ??

 

aum

[Guest guest]

Dearest ShanJi and SudhakarJi,

As a silent learner from your posts & others posts in here its pretty

hard to digest two noble souls fighting personally for a book written

by a forigner!!!

The persons who write such books to split hindus unity will enjoy

such things and finaly acheive for what they wrote this book. Just

look at Chatholic how they showed protest against Dan Brown for his

book, and look at Muslims who probabaly may kill Salaman Rushdie one

day for his book!!!!

I can accept some noble souls came to india from a different culture

learned and were taught by great indian souls and were masters in

many things, but we have our owm great souls to follow and i would

recommend to read/take a note from native person who writes about

native things and culture rather reading a foreingers veiws and

prespectives.

I am sorry for writting this but even a small nail like me can help

you in your long ride of spiritual Journey.

It wil be a big vaccuam and unreplacable if it happens as written in

your respective posts.

 

Luv.

[Guest guest]

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

 

> I never said, i will not contribute what little i know.

 

Sudhakrji, I am sorry, I over reacted. But you gave me cause. You are

one of the only few Satoguni people in this club, who has good

knowledge & also enthusiasm for Yoga. For you to then recommend a book

that denigrates most of our culture was saddening. You may know that

there was no Aryan invasion, but ordinary people reading the book will

take it as gospel, & then go around preaching it.

 

And that Senthilji is the problem, not just books written by

westereners, but books written by people who have read 2-3 books, made

a few " Gurus " (which just means spending few weeks with them), then

writing books, becoming " experts " . Such books & " Experts " are then

quoted by other " experts " & they congratulate each other. But under

such shallow academics, spirituality suffers.

 

I am a fan of books by westerners- most of my knowledge came from

books written by people like David Frawley, Robert Svoboda etc. But

these people spent 10-15 years meditating, visiting/staying in

India(Svoboda spent 10-12 years in India with a Tantric Guru, before

he wrote a book, & only because his Guru asked him to). Compare this

to mr Lysbeth, who from what I gathered, had read a few books, chatted

to a couple of people(including a Communist Proffessor- would anyone

who had a real Guru ever take a professors advice?), & this qualified

him to become an " expert " .

 

Hinduism is a very wide tradition, with many seeming inconsistencies,

that can only be solved by years of spiritual wisdom.

 

Its a lot like swimming- you only learn by jumping in the river, not

studying the laws of fluid dynamics. Unfortunately, thats how most

Academic types(who are the real enemies of Hinduism, not westerenrs)

approach Hinduism.

 

Again, apologies if I came out too hard.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

>

> Again, apologies if I came out too hard.

>

> love

> Shantnu

>

 

Dear brothers

 

Come on you two wise ones - you have so much to teach us, lets see

you shake hands & make peace.

 

Now can we get back on to the subject of tantric sex please.... :-)

 

With love

 

Farah

[Guest guest]

, " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

>

> , " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9@> wrote:

 

Dear Aum, Senthil, Farah, Shantanu and rest of the members,

 

I have already apologised but i am again apologising and will

try to see the spiritual atmosphere here is not desecrated.

 

Regarding " i am shocked " Aumji that was just a wild wild guess.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

> >

> > I do not recall your asking any questions to me - please repeat

> > unless it is " I AM SHOCKED - HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?

> >

>

> LOL.... sudhakarji...it is " I am shocked.. how do you know this ?

>

> do you have psychic abilities or a wild guess ??

[Guest guest]

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

> Regarding " i am shocked " Aumji that was just a wild wild guess.

 

 

LOL Hari aum.. bhaiyya thode bahut psychic to hum bhi hain.. that was

not a wild guess.. i mean if u r also in OBE we can share a lot things.

 

Let me describe my first ever OBE. It was 1989 and I was in Paris

and was alone at home on a saturday afternoon. I was taking an

afternoon nap, as family had gone out to shopping.

 

And then I woke up.. i saw there was all dark around. I thought

why so dark now ? i just slept around 2 and it should be 3 or 4...it

shudnt be so dark...

 

then i thought may be my family came and they put the shutter down

to let me enjoy my sleep. I left the bed the bed and went out... there

was utter darkness all around, and i had to feel the wall to have my

way.. i reached the drawing room.. it was totally dark..then on to

kitchen but still dark. i saw outside the shutters were not seen it

was jet black all around. I stumbled and ran towards my bed room and

fell down on the bed. Then i suddenly opened my eyes and saw

everything normal.

 

then i was almost an atheist, and had no knowledge of any yoga, any

book, any OBE, astral or any thing. I took it as a ghost attack and

did not sleep alone in the room for many days ...LOL

 

any comments why it was so dark.??

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

>

> , " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9@> wrote:

Dear Aum,

 

Namaste!

 

Aum bhaiya, kaash aap ne jo bhola woh sach hota. There is no truth

there. Believe me if i knew about out of body experience what you say

astral projection, the first thing i would do is play on Irish

Sweepstake or Euro Lotto or both. After winning i would consult tax

expert and invest wisely. Since i have no vices, yeah, no tea,

no coffee, no cigarettes, no liquor, no non-veg, no womanising,

occasional junk food. Then what the hell i am going to do with so

much money. Since i do not have travelling itch also all i would do

is MEDITATION FOR SIX TO NINE HOURS - if things work out maybe even

months together in meditation like rishis of the yore. Yeah, that is

my fond wish. Carefree meditation and explore the astral world.

Wishful thinking, why not, typical AQUARIUS as per sun-sign.

 

Since you are into it i do not mind tip on lotto numbers if you

care to reveal it.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

[Guest guest]

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

 

I am not into meditation to get loto numbers.... OBE has nothing to do

with such things

 

Aum