Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 All missing ? I have one doubt. Krishna told pandavas to speak lies and do dishonesty in the war to win. Saints say that we should not speak lie or do dishonesty if we want to reach god why this paradox? if god himself encouraged speaking lie why should we refrain from it? dont laugh if it looks weird, but i really never found the answer ansuya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Another trick question Anusuyaji? Morals and rules are for ordinary Rajsic/Tamsic people, who need to be told what to do, and are better off always being on the safe side. For the man who lives in God conciousness all the time, all these rules are a burden. These rules are mental, and made for people who live mainly in the mental domain(manomaya kosha). Those who have gone beyond the mind dont need mental rules. People who live in God conciousness have a much better source to know what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. People who lived with Krishna, had no need of any rules, as he was God incarnate. Its like the story where a man goes to a famous Sadhu, & starts reading the scriptures to him. The Sadhu laughs at him and says " The scriptures are sitting in front of you, why do you need a dead book? " . Morals are ok for normal people, but at the end of the day they are just mental rules, like a wheelchair someone who has broken his legs needs. Once his legs are healed, he can throw away the wheelchair, the same way an advanced sadhak can throw away all morals once he reaches an advanced stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > Another trick question Anusuyaji? > Ansuya you never fail to make me wonder on your so simple looking.. but very very deep questions... i will come back and reply..as my laptop is out of order for 2 weeks and i m not able to reach internet regularly.. i have to think twice before replying to your GREAT question...meanwhile i agree with shan and wait for other learned sadhakas to reply. Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > Another trick question Anusuyaji? > > Morals and rules are for ordinary Rajsic/Tamsic people, who need to be > told what to do, and are better off always being on the safe side. > Well said Shantnu May I add a bit The goal is what matters not the means. Unfortunately, today's perception is just opposite. Shri Krishna's goal was to set up the rule of good and to destroy the evil. For this he adopted whatever means he had in the given situation. HE ran away from battle field (from Mathura) and was called Ranchhodji. But who can, now, say that that was a wrong decision in those given circumstances though at that time many of his own clergy men opposed the idea. Even Balram was also not agreed to this idea initially. But see the end result. If they had not left at that time most of Yadavs would have been killed by Jarasandh, Dwarka could not into existance. So, we should concentrate on goal provided it is for good for every one. Is it not better to adopt unethenic (so called wrong) means to achieve a good for all goal rather to adopt ethnic (so called right) means to achieve a bad for all goal ? Jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > same way an advanced sadhak can throw away all morals once he reaches > an advanced stage. > Dear shantnu, does it mean an enlightened soul can do rapes, murders dishonesty etc ? will it not be sin for enlightened soul? If yes then i do not agree ansuya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 > Dear shantnu, does it mean an enlightened soul can do rapes, murders > dishonesty etc ? will it not be sin for enlightened soul? >If yes then i do not agree The definition of an enlightened person is- one who sees the whole Universe as part of himself, who sees the Self in all. Such a person can never harm anyone. Even if such a person does something considered " bad " by the lower mental standards, there is always a reason for it. Even when the Devas kill demons, they do so out of Love & compassion, and to release them from their bad karma, & not because of some moral obligation or because they are required to do so by some cosmic law. When Vishnu kills Hirnayakashyap(father of Prahlad), he tears his stomach with his claws & rips his entrails out. This might seem the work of a violent God , but in reality, the stomach is where the Manipura chakra is, where our lower ego lives. By tearing his stomach, Vishnu cleared the block in his chakra that wasnt allowing Hirnayakashyap to rise above demon. So even when killing him, Vishnu showed him great love & compassion. When Krishna stole butter, he was helping set the imbalance right. The cows give their milk freely. What right then does anyone have to take that milk & profit from it, while not giving it to the children & the poor? It was in reality the people of Gokul who were thieves, they were stealing from Nature & God. Everyone does it but Krishna as the Universal Godhead couldnt allow it, so he stole back from the stealers. Apsara Anjani was cursed to become a monkey for a very small thing. It might seem the Rishi who cursed was egoistic & arrogant. Yet she gave birth to Hanuman, & became known all throughout history. It is not the job of the mind to try to judge that which is far beyond it. Most morals and rules come from the intellectual mind, which is far below the intuitive mind, which itself is far below Pure Wisdom(Vigyan), which itself is below Sat-Chit-anand(Truth Conciousness-Bliss), which is where God & the Rishis exist. The intellectual mind is just a temporary tool till we can develop intuitive mind and finally Vigyan, & so its not advisable to get too attached to it or its petty rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: We have to understand one thing about moral and ethics that these morals are a transitory regulation mainly used as tool by the society/religion to tame the animal still lurking in human beings. We can not impose man-made morals and ethics on God and then expect him to follow them too... LOL God fixes the spiritual morals and we have to follow them. Secondly, rapes and murders (for pleasures) are asuric vrittis, and no human who has advanced on the spiritual path will ever commit asuric acts. Killing however in the war is done by enlightened beings (like guru Gobind singhji, Lord Rama and Krishna)... and these killings are done not with hatered in heart.... but as a tool of god. See krishna killed many, like shishupal, kansa etc.. but with no hate in the mind but to liberate their souls....so these are not killings but mercy. Enlightened souls will never do anything out of hatered or to take revenge. Krishna's teachings tells us to be an alive tool in his hands and follow his direction.... if krishna commands to lie...LIE and if he commands to kill..then KILL... but first we have to reach higher realms of spirituality to be near krishna. At present as half-evolved humans, if we commit crime and do it in the name of God... it is only fooling ourselvs....this links to your earlier question about Jehadis too. Did i make something clear ? Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Thanks shantnu and aum, it clarified upto some extent. Can i presume that those who are enlightened do not make new karma ? ansuya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 > Thanks shantnu and aum, it clarified upto some extent. Can i presume > that those who are enlightened do not make new karma ? Since an enlightened soul identifies himself with th whole Universe, the karma of the whole universe is his karma. But he doesnt feel bound by that Karma, as at that level it no longer called Karma, but Free Will, or Svatrantyta. In the whole Universe, only Parashiv has Free Will- everyone else only think they do, even the Devas. The Free Will of Parashiv is Maya, or the illusion we are bound to our actions, & have to suffer their results, or we are bound in space/time, or in creativity or in bliss. Once a person becomes enlightned, they work for their own Free Will. As Krishna says " In the 3 worlds I have nothing to gain, yet I work, for if I stopped, the whole universe would come to an end " . love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 > Krishna's teachings tells us to be an alive tool in his hands and > follow his direction.... if krishna commands to lie...LIE and if he > commands to kill..then KILL... but first we have to reach higher > realms of spirituality to be near krishna. True Babaji. Its like, a man who lives near the Sun says " There is no darkness, there is only light! " Hearing him, a man who lives in the gutters switches off his light, & stumbles in the darkness. When you reach the sun of wisdom, where darkness cannot exist, the lower lights of morals will become useless. Till then, we need the lights of mental morals, but to mistake them for the sun is also a mistake. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: > > > I have one doubt. Krishna told pandavas to speak lies and do dishonesty > in the war to win. Saints say that we should not speak lie or do > dishonesty if we want to reach god > > RAM RAM madem anusuia ji " Humanity is the greatest dharma and Lord is responsible for the welfare of the whole universe " HARE KRISHNA ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHNA KRISHNA ,HARE HARE,HARE RAMA ,HARE RAMA ,RAMA RAMA ,HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: > > Thanks shantnu and aum, it clarified upto some extent. Can i presume > that those who are enlightened do not make new karma ? > RAM RAM, when the Lord himself does karmas then who are the enlightened ones . Lord Hanuman were enlightened one and did a lot of karmas . they do like the God is doing karmas through them . HARE KRISHNA ,HARE KRISHNA ,KRISHNA KRISHNA ,HARE HARE,HARE RAMA ,HARE RAMA ,RAMA RAMA ,HARE HARE > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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