Karma of Jehadis

[Guest guest]

I am enjoying the discussion and finally Aradhana and Deito are also

back ! I came to YA and then here and i swear i got real knowledge

here from you all.

 

This question is for all of you here. Jehadis are ramming planes into

buildings and killing people. They are doing their Dharma, as their

religion tells them that they will go to heaven if they die for their

religion.

 

Krishna also told Arjuna to fight for Dharma and told him that if he

dies he will go to heaven. So Jehadis are equal to Arjuna ?

 

dont mind this question it is not against any religion but just

curiosity

 

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

 

Hello Ansuyaji,

 

Namaste!

 

Arjuna definitely went to heaven and of this there is a reference

in Mahabharatha. Finally it was God incarnate himself asked arjuna

to kill kauravas but that is not the case with the jehaadis. For

them it was just an ordinary fanatic preacher who instigated them

to jam the planes etc., I don't believe they are in heaven, it is

definitely hell for them because they allowed themselves to be

deluded by a fanatic unlike arjuna who listened to god himself.

Besides lord krishna had shown him the vishwa swarup did the

misguided preacher show his vishwa swarup to the jehadis? It is

definitely NO NO NO.

 

Hope this satisfies your doubts.

 

With warm wishes

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

..

>

> This question is for all of you here. Jehadis are ramming planes

into

> buildings and killing people. They are doing their Dharma, as

their

> religion tells them that they will go to heaven if they die for

their

> religion.

>

> Krishna also told Arjuna to fight for Dharma and told him that if

he

> dies he will go to heaven. So Jehadis are equal to Arjuna ?

>

> dont mind this question it is not against any religion but just

> curiosity

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Krishna also told Arjuna to fight for Dharma and told him that if he

> dies he will go to heaven. So Jehadis are equal to Arjuna ?

 

Anusuyaji, we can better understand this problem if we understand that

Jehadis are also part of the Divine Plan.

 

Like Babaji wrote the other day, when terrorists attacked India,

America said " Talk to terrorists, find peaceful solution " . When US was

attacked, suddenly they were invading countries left, right & center!

How else will Mother Nature treat uncaring people to care for others

peoples misery than by making them suffer same fate.

 

Yes, Jehadis will goto heaven. After all, " heaven " , where most

religons want to go, is just a level on the astral plane, sort of a

temporary resting place for souls between rebirths(not everyone goes

there- some goto Pitri Lok or Land of Ancestors, & some to " hells " ).

It doesnt matter that we think they are wrong- as long as they follow

the tenets of their religon faithfully, they are guranteed to be

allowed entry to their " heaven " .

 

But Arjun got more than going to heaven- he got Moksha- full knowledge

of the Highest form of Godhead, & freedom from rebirth. The difference

b/w him & jehadis is- he knew he was working for the Divine Plan, that

it was not his personal ego he was killing for, but for the greater

Divine Plan.

 

Now this realistion must not be mental, but spiritual(ie just

thinkning " I am doing Gods job " isnt enough).

 

Its entirely possible some jehadis like Laden are aware of the fact

that they are part of the Divine Plan, in which case they will not get

bad karma, as it was not them who carried out the attacks, but God

through them.

 

But if they are doing it to bloat their ego, become famous or goto

heaven & do everything they arent allowed to on earth, then they are

responsible for their actions, & they will have to pay the price.

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

> I am enjoying the discussion and finally Aradhana and Deito are also

> back !

 

Dear Anusuya ji can you tell me when I wasnt here or which day that you

think I have come back!! lol

 

It shocks me and I am really taken aback terribly with the thing you

said that jehadis are doing dharma !! But of course I am not offended

but just not happy with that which you said.I really get irritated and

shocked if a Hindu starts speaking in favour of this " jehad " which is

terrorism and no jehad at all

For example..There are numerous people on earth who say that its ok to

be a non vegetarian for health and this and that and some say that this

is food chain or that if we dont eat animals they will double.. Even

they can claim that its natural, o.k or their dharma etc etc. If

someone is habitual of eating non vegetarian food and that too for some

mere enjoyment and excuses himself on one or other pretext that doesnt

mean he is not being violent, atrocious, wrong, selfish, thoughtless...

but this is a smaller thing and can no where be compared to terrorisism

 

Tell us the reason why you think that the terrorists are doing dharma??

What dharma do you think they are doing and for what purpose and what

is the inspiration you think they are doing this?

 

Jehad as in Muslim religion and thier Holy Quaran means the war against

evil - the inner war waged to triumph over the misleading and wrong in

ones self. Jehad is about God ans religion.Islam nowgere teaches

violence and murder and useless wars and quarrels like other religions

it speaks of doing things for Allah.If terrorists call killing people

jehaad that doesnt become jehaad or religious war.Honestly speaking I

dont really believe in this religion thing because Hari is one and

belongs to all and the Islam is also his religion.So I am saying about

both religions hindu and muslim and not about any one.

As for our Sanatana Dharma the very foundation of our religion is

compassion, mercy and non violence. Only to teach this so many

incarnations have been there till now in Kaliyuga and will be there in

future too and maybe more. There is not one incarnation that didnot

talk again and again and do much for unity of religions, talk of One

God,speak and do things against fanaticism, against social prejudices

that were practiced in name of caste system.These are the worst things

of kaliyuga as our shastras says- " kaliyuga is the age of quarrel and

hypocrisy " So its important to understand that all this difference on

basis of religion and things like so called " jehad " is a game of ego,

hypocrisy , sheer nonsense.here is absolutely no basis for them because

the fact is that all relgions say similar things and if people see

differences then its thier foolishness and blindness.

 

Krishna avoided the mahabharata for a long time and was averese to

war.When there was no choice and war was a necessity mahabharata was

fought. But mahabharata was a war of dharma /righteousness and not for

power, manipulation etc

We cant compare a great dharam yudha like mahabharat which was fought

under the direct supervision of Krishna with murders and efforts of

destroying peace of people. And Arjuna was a kshatriya not an animal

 

Mahabhaats purpose was only good future and ere establishment of

justice and dharma and eliminetion of that which was bad for the world

and society

 

You tell us what dharma you think is being carried out by terrorists

and what they are doing and for what reason?

[Guest guest]

> Its entirely possible some jehadis like Laden are aware of the fact

 

I agree that Jehadis are a part of divine plan. But everything is a

part of divine plan.

lol but dear brother Shantanu you are suggesting something akin to that

Osama Bin Laden is a great gyaani who knows he is working for God????

some man who doesnt have the basic sense of right and wrong and no

compassion , kindness, virtue etc and thinks its divine plan to create

havoc in the world ????

by saying tht he will go to heaven you have confused me

 

But the divine plan is actually that all religions except sanatana

dharma are going to perish by end of kali. And Islam is one of them

 

I really dont think that in the war between Laden and West- such people

are more than pawns in the hand of fate

I dont think terrorists can go to heaven infact they might not even go

to hell for that which they are doing in name of jehad

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

Jehadis are ramming planes into

> buildings and killing people.

 

 

Dear sister Ansuya

 

If you spoke to most Muslims, they see these people you speak of, as

nothing but a total disgrace & an embarassment to their religion.

True followers of Islam advocate peace & tolerance. It is only the

ignorant & corrupt who fly planes into buildings, or who plant bombs

in public places & then claim it is in the name of their religion.

These people are a small minority. It just so happens that they gain

a lot of publicity by their negative action, but this does not mean

they represent any more than a tiny section of a much more peaceful

majority.

 

With love & peace

 

Farah

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

> Krishna also told Arjuna to fight for Dharma and told him that if

he

> dies he will go to heaven. So Jehadis are equal to Arjuna ?

>

 

 

Congratulations ansuya for this most cunning question. From the

answers so far, i can see how people have been tricked by you.

Great question I must say.

 

Let me try...but i am not sure, if i will also be trapped by this

intelligent question.

 

Rules made by Prophets are often garbled by the religions when on

a later stage, organised religion is started. Now Mohammed is not

there to clarify his sayings, nor is Jesus there. and these

Abrahmic religions are so closed minded, and allow no alteration or

interpretation to their sacred books....hence all these confusions

arise.

 

First you have to understand the difference between Dharma and

religion. Dharma is not religion. A religion can say OK kill

people and you will get to heaven....but the followers will not go

to heaven.

 

Heaven is not decided by prophets and books....there is a universal

Dharma for human beings....and dharma is different from religions.

 

Jehadis are not killing tormentors or asuras...they are killing

innocent people, who have not done any harm to anyone. Recently in

a bomb blast, a saw half body of a baby..... now even if Mohammed

comes down and tells me that those terrorist will go to heaven for

killing that little kid... i will refute him too.

 

These type of people get to some lower astral levels and then

are born to face the consequences....they either see their own nears

and dears killed or they themselves suffer pains.

 

On the other hand Arjuna did not kill any innocent woman or

child. He went to a direct war with the enemy and in war he

killed...or lost his nears and dears.

 

I will refrain from saying that hindu way of killing takes to

heaven and muslim way of killing takes to hell (Otherwise Farah

will take me straight on).... it is not the religion which

decides...it is the Karma as per Dharma which decides yr fate in

heaven.

 

Killing like a coward by hiding or blowing self or by gorilla

way ...that too the innocent women and children is wrong by the

perspective of Universal Dharma.

 

So there is no comparison between Arjuna and jehadis....hope you

will further dissect and will try to confuse me.. or trick me LOL

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

>

>> but just not happy with that which you said.I really get irritated

and

> shocked if a Hindu starts speaking in favour of this " jehad " which

is

> terrorism and no jehad at all

 

 

Dear Aradhana

 

you should not be irritated and shocked... you were also tricked into

this great question... read my reply and then re-think over this

question.

 

thanks for your other beautiful messages..safal hogi teri aradhana

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

>

> you should not be irritated and shocked... you were also tricked into

> this great question... read my reply and then re-think over this

> question.

> I was also talking of righteousness or dharma and not religion....or

maybe I am not understanding what is that you are pointing at

[Guest guest]

, " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

>

> I will refrain from saying that hindu way of killing takes to

> heaven and muslim way of killing takes to hell (Otherwise Farah

> will take me straight on)....

 

 

Dearest Aum

 

Lol - I will always take anyone 'on' (including you) & speak up for

those who do not have a voice, whether they are Muslim, christian,

Hindu, Buddhist etc. I like Aradhana's concept of looking beyond

religion & seeing that we are all worshiping the same God anyway. It

would be sad if we only spoke up for our 'own.' We are all human.

Anyway, if we only spoke up for our 'own', who on earth would I speak

up for??

 

Have you heard this quote, its lovely...

 

First they came for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up,

because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up,

because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one

left to speak up for me.

 

Martin Niemoller, 1945

 

 

With love

 

Farah

[Guest guest]

, " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

>

> Congratulations ansuya for this most cunning question. From the

> answers so far, i can see how people have been tricked by you.

> Great question I must say.

 

LOL thanks Aumji (blushes).

 

Earlier i had doubt but now i am sure you can read minds. at least

with me this is true. I had thought the same answer when i was writing

this question and you wrote it word by word as i thought

 

will you teach me how to read minds ?

 

ansuya

[Guest guest]

RAM RAM RAM,

 

DISCLOSURE : JUST TO GET THE INSIGHT AND NOT TO HURT OR OFFEND.

 

> Killing like a coward by hiding or blowing self or by gorilla

> way ...that too the innocent women and children is wrong by the

> perspective of Universal Dharma.

>

 

Babaji, Ram Killed Vali hidding behind, and how come this is an

accepted Dharma by an AVATAR?

 

***DISCLOSURE : JUST TO GET THE INSIGHT AND NOT TO HURT OR OFFEND.***

 

Ram Ram Ram pls forgive me to ask this question

[Guest guest]

When you told Deito was back, i wanted to speak to you, but yur

question sparked an interest in me, so as to silently watch , what

all people may say and what may be there way of perceiving, and if

anyone perceived it in absolute sense..

 

So to absorve this i did not reply, and as you say Aum has satisfied

your intellect, so here i am saying you :

 

Thanks for warm welcome my dear sister, How are you, is everythign

fine, are you happy, are you dancing .... i always wish you all the

best .. May lord bestow his blessing and expand intellect as i

always see you very interested in intellectual understaidng and

comprehension.

 

 

Your question made me write, a sanskrit para which i present to you,

but its meaning is same as others have translated, so i am just

giving you the para, which autopmatically came out as a poetic

composition, by his grace, offcourse only intended to be offered at

the lotus feet of Hari. I have kept its name as " Eko Margadarshanam.

Ekoham Sarva Saadhanam " . its name is purposely wihtout explicit name

of Hari, because its nature is itself implicit to hari alone.

 

Hope you all like it, and it also gives the fate of anyone,

including mine, My flower's, yours ... and everyone else in

existance.. from the hisgest of beings till the lowes strate of

Existence, including your subject " Jehadis " -- who are also

proceeding from the energy of all eternal hari.

 

------------------------------

 

Eko Margadarshanam. Ekoham Sarva Saadhanam.

-----------

 

Paramatma swarupena. Harihi Vasayathi Hridayat !

thad Harihi, Nirdaryathi Karmani, Dadhathi Phalani !

 

Sarwaani Tasya karmani twam ekam Karanam Cha, Sarwaani Tasya

Karmaanusaarena, Phalam Bhogayathi !

 

Satkarmaani SatPhalam Dadati, DusKarnamani Dushpalam deyathi, Etaha

Karmaha duskarmaha, etaha karmaha Satkarmaha , Swasya Hridyayat

Stitah Vasudeva, Nirdaryathi !

 

Vasudeva Nirdaryathi Dharmam, Vasudeva Nirdaryathi Karyam,

Vasudeva Nirdaryathi Karmam, vasudeva Nirdaryathi Artham,

Vasudeva Nirdaryathi phalanupalam, Vasudeva Nirdaryathi Moksham !

 

twam drisyathi sarvam, twam sruyathe sarvam,

twam vyapyathe sakalam !

 

tasya darshaman, sarvasya MargaDarshanam !

 

------------------------------

 

 

Warm Regards,

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

 

> LOL thanks Aumji (blushes).

[Guest guest]

, " Senthil " <senthil_sym wrote:

> Babaji, Ram Killed Vali hidding behind, and how come this is an

> accepted Dharma by an AVATAR?

 

 

my dear friend

 

if you understand Dharma then you will find that dharmas are

infinite and they clashed sometimes then one has to choose one and

the Lord had choosen the dharma of a friend that time , if you see

clearly .

 

HARE KRISHNA ,HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA ,HARE HARE,HARE

RAMA ,HARE RAMA ,RAMA RAMA ,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

> Babaji, Ram Killed Vali hidding behind, and how come this is an

> accepted Dharma by an AVATAR?

 

Senthilji- 2 points. 1, Vali was not entirely innocent. 2nd- Rama had

to suffer for this bad Karma in next life as Krishna, when he was

killed by a fisherman, who was Vali incarnated.

 

So God showed that even He himself is not free from Law of Karma, even

he has to suffer, so what about us ordinary mortals?

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Shivaya.

 

> if you understand Dharma then you will find that dharmas are

> infinite and they clashed sometimes then one has to choose one and

> the Lord had choosen the dharma of a friend that time , if you see

> clearly .

 

JitendraJi,

This is exactly happened to Karna, the dharma to Support Dhuryodhana.

 

Shivaya Namah Aum.

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Shivaya.

 

> So God showed that even He himself is not free from Law of Karma, even

> he has to suffer, so what about us ordinary mortals?

 

Thanks ShantnuJi.

 

What Karma of ours made us meet and discuss in this very forum!!!?

 

Thanks again ShanJi.

 

Shivaya Namah Aum.

[Guest guest]

, " Senthil " <senthil_sym wrote:

 

>

> Babaji, Ram Killed Vali hidding behind, and how come this is an

> accepted Dharma by an AVATAR?

 

 

It was not Ram's way of killing people. Only when he saw Vali

was a tyrannt, a sinner and had been wrongly sitting on the throne he

killed him.

 

Hiding in this case was necessary as vali had a boon that no one

who faces him can kill him.

 

It can not be compared with the coward work of terrorists who

kill in disguise, the innocent people.

 

Vali was not innocent...so he deserved it. In Ramayan Rama

fought the main war face to face with Ravan without any hiding.

 

Secondly Rama was an avtar..now if any of his follower start

killing people by hiding and thinks he will go to heaven is pure

stupidity.

 

aum

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Shivaya.

 

Dear Babaji,

Pranam.

 

No way i made an idoitic comparision.

No way to disprove Ram Avatar's greatness.

I just wanted the catch " freindship Dharma " as pointed out by

JitendraJi, to prove Karna's freindship with Dhuryodhna.

 

I Sincierly appologies if i had unintentionally made a wrong remark

about Ram Avatar.

 

 

Sorry Again.

 

N.B: Babaji i could see your angry face! pls cool down.

 

Shivaya Namah Aum.

[Guest guest]

When one understands that everything proceeds equally form Hari, and

everythign exists in one Tranquil Hari, there is no sinner, and

there is no punishment, whatever one sees is a proceeding of

manifestation of divine will, and on his own energy.

 

Because there is no energy apart fomr his energy and there is no

will apart from his will, that is existance.

When one understands this firmly, will he know that eternal hari..

 

May be bali or May be ravana, everything is part of one eternal

hari, his own force manifesting, as part of his leela, such

discussions whcih enlarge induvidiality are worthless, my dear

brothers..

 

There is no one who is a sinner, there is no one who is

meritarious , only he is real one, and his nature is really what is

there...

 

 

-- Humble Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, " Senthil " <senthil_sym wrote:

No way i made an idoitic comparision.

> No way to disprove Ram Avatar's greatness.

> I just wanted the catch " freindship Dharma " as pointed out by

>

[Guest guest]

, " Senthil " <senthil_sym wrote:

>

>

>

> N.B: Babaji i could see your angry face! pls cool down.

>

 

Dear Senthil, I assure you i am not angry.... nor did i write such

language....which showed my anger. Rather i am grateful to you to

have brought out such point, where i could think of...and could read

Shanracer's excellent reply to.

 

AUM

[Guest guest]

Vaali was a hypnotist. Hypnotism was /is one of the martial arts mastered by

special persons who want to defeat the enemy by a deceitful trick. Sugriv could

fight only with a mace.

Shriram was not taught this art and other arts like wrestling and boxing. So

Vali was practising unethical warfare. Though Shriram is Vishnu incarnate HE

could not learn every art as HE is a " HUMAN " incarnate. Humans can not practise

any art not taught by Guru.

Therefore Shriram eliminated the unethical warrior Vali by an arrow from

behind.

Dear Saadhaks please give your feedback

thanks

i.j.swamy

 

Aum <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

, " Senthil " <senthil_sym wrote:

 

>

> Babaji, Ram Killed Vali hidding behind, and how come this is an

> accepted Dharma by an AVATAR?

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

>

> > Babaji, Ram Killed Vali hidding behind, and how come this is an

> > accepted Dharma by an AVATAR?

>

> Senthilji- 2 points. 1, Vali was not entirely innocent. 2nd- Rama had

> to suffer for this bad Karma in next life as Krishna, when he was

> killed by a fisherman, who was Vali incarnated.

>

> So God showed that even He himself is not free from Law of Karma,

even

> he has to suffer, so what about us ordinary mortals?

>

> love

> Shantnu

>

Fantastic Shantnu

 

I could never relate these two. Thanks

 

Jai Gurudev

[Guest guest]

, " Senthil " <senthil_sym wrote:

>

> Om Namah Shivaya.

>

> > if you understand Dharma then you will find that dharmas are

> > infinite and they clashed sometimes then one has to choose one and

> > the Lord had choosen the dharma of a friend that time , if you see

> > clearly .

>

> JitendraJi,

> This is exactly happened to Karna, the dharma to Support Dhuryodhana.

>

> Shivaya Namah Aum.

>

There two episodes are quite different.

 

Bali did a wrong thing - He kicked out his brother without much fault

of his and kept his wife. It is a grave mistate, it would sin, to

sleep with younger brothers wife. So, Lord Ram did nothing wrong

killing Bali.

 

Whereas Pandavas did nothing wrong against Karna.

 

Moreover, Karna had bad feeling for Pandavas even before he knew that

he is a son of Kunti or that he is a Kshatriya.

 

To me, the Freindship Dharma is not in supporting a friend in his bad

Karmas rather to prevent him from doing wrongs. First advise him,

then use some force. Even then if he does not change his bad ways, I

will prefer to leave such a friend. If I support my friend in his bad

ways, then somewhere I also want to do the same but cannot afford to

do so for want of power, position, money etc.

If Karna would have done so, Duryodhan could lead a better life. He

would have not gone to war without Karna's support.

 

It is also said that Karna did not have Krishna on his side to correct

advice. This itself shows that Karna was not a good person otherwise

Krishna, the Lord, would never leave him without support.

 

Jai Gurudev

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Shivaya.

 

> To me, the Freindship Dharma is not in supporting a friend in his bad

> Karmas rather to prevent him from doing wrongs. First advise him,

> then use some force. Even then if he does not change his bad ways, I

> will prefer to leave such a friend. If I support my friend in his

bad

> ways, then somewhere I also want to do the same but cannot afford to

> do so for want of power, position, money etc.

> If Karna would have done so, Duryodhan could lead a better life.

 

PradeepJI,

Thanks.You hit the final nail in the cofin. I understand my wrong

opinion. Yes I clearly understand freindship dharma. Thanks again, you

proved the freindship dharma and cleared your freind's wrong

beleif/faith, PradeepJi even though i was repeatedly fighting for

Karnas generosity( wrong!).

 

Shivaya Namah Aum.