a question

[Guest guest]

Why do scriptures and some saints like Kabir compare 'woman' to maaya?

And say things such as - " she will take you away from love and divine

knowledge " . Even if its- the word 'woman' ie symbolic reference for

maaya I cant understand why woman be adressed to denote something bad

or inferior.

Please dont be offended anyone.i ONLY WISH TO BE CLEAR ON THIS ONE.

THANKS

[Guest guest]

Actually i dont see it as Women Particularly, it is rather " Feminism "

 

Dear Sis, listen, did you read my post just which i put yesterday, i

wrote how i used to get attracted towards feminism.. and after getting

knowledge about divine how i was able to loose the desire.

 

That will give you exact idea..

 

See there are souls at different conditions, Aradhana.

 

Jivas, who has strong desire to Lord over, usually take form of Males.

But Jivas whose Desire is less to Lord over and More to Independently

Enjoy, on material nature usually take forms of Female.

 

So female or Feminine jivas, are more surrendered, and comparitively

enjoyed.

 

Meaning , as an example, consider husband and wife participating in a

sexual session, now Husband enjoys being the " Enjoyer " but wife will

enjoy being " Enjoyed " .

 

She will enjoy more, is she is being Enjoyed more and more... this is

in rudimentary material terms.

 

So, always the manifest Maaya utilizes these " Souls taking feminine

nature " to extend its clutches of Illusion, because they can be given

this power as they are relatively more Surrendered.

 

This is also the reason, why the Gopis of Vraja, was able to show the

purest love to Krsna.

 

Means that in very simple words, The females have more power as

bestowed by lord himself, to attract and pout male into more and more

material web, and desires.

 

but these is a negative side also...

 

with this power comes the another part, that is because they are

already a bit surrendered souls, its difficult for them to control

material enjoyment. and this is also manifested in material terms too..

 

now tell me did i only confuse you, or was i able to convey at least

something.. loll .. .because i know i usually convolute statement,

and make them confusing..

 

thanks for posting, I feel a bit lonely without your replies.. you see

you are very close to my heart .

 

-- bro

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

 

 

 

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

There is no offense meant to anyone in my response; but the answer is

very simple. More often than not males tend to follow their loins,

instead of their brains. So, naturally, men are blaming what they think

is the cause of their animal behaviors, not orignally knowing the

source of their delima (i.e. males were created to spread their seed).

[Guest guest]

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

Hi there

 

Namaste,

 

I feel for want of better " comparison " they used woman to denote

sex and maya. Kabir was a married man and had a beautiful wife.

Once he wanted to give feast to sadhus and so he told his wife to

get raw materials from grocery store. She went there and asked for

the same on credit. The grocer said, not on credit but only if you

come tonight to sleep with me. She reported to kabir. Kabir told

his wife, agree to the proposal. At night it rained. Kabir carried

his wife on his shoulders and gently lowered his wife on grocery

steps. When she knocked on the door, the grocer opened the door and

called her in and when he saw her legs dry, he asked her, in this

rain how come your feet is not dirty. She told him the truth at which

he asked her, where is your husband? She replied, he is waiting out

at which the grocer felt so ashamed that he came out called kabir in

and asked his forgiveness. Later kabir initiated him into his path.

This is how great saint work. Personally i feel they dare not call

the woman " lower strata " etc., that would be insulting their own

mother. It is later on other males twisted the phrase to suit their

needs by labelling females as - visha ka pyala etc., etc.,

 

As i said at the start for want of better comparison they said

females as sex and maya etc., maybe they should have said - sex is

bad and not woman.

 

Rest assured no true master has demeaned the woman - it is the

weaker male who has done it and believe me a man who ill treats a

woman will always suffer but in man's world today woman is

unfortunately treated wrong way.

 

Best wishes.

 

Regards

Sudhakar

 

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers!

 

 

 

wrote:

>

> Why do scriptures and some saints like Kabir compare 'woman' to

maaya?

[Guest guest]

Dear Sudhakar. you are right, and even lord never used any of such

things, and we should follow him. The imperishable and absolute

knowledge himself.

 

This is not applicable to me, or my brothers and sisters , for our

master is Hari, whose mothers are many, like Yashoda, Devaki and all

vraja Cowherd Elderly ladies and many more..

 

 

We have the master, who had thousands of wife, and all of them were

great devotees, form many births, and to give them the right they

deserve, Even our Master hari, had to marry them, and give them the

status of Wife. can you see the respect Hari gives to Women .. .

 

just by remembering this , all inauspiciousness is warded off, and

respect flows for so called female, though when we realize there is n

o femininity or masculinity in us... still I believe that if we

service the lord best, or if we want to, than being a gopi in love wit

him seems to be the best way ..

 

Even i am a small baby taken care by hari, same like my sister and

same like everyone else..

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

> I feel for want of better " comparison " they used woman to denote

> sex and maya. Kabir was a married man and had a beautiful wife.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dieto,Please Accept my Obiesances!

I read Your Post A day ago too,and wanted to reply,also!

I think for a man,So called Falling in love with a woman,Perpetuates Material

Life! First You become a couple,Than There is Children,Then Grandchildren,Which

are very materially enjoyable! I guess this Goes the same for a Women Also!

One thought ,I undrestand completly,is,not wanting to be alone! I feel very

fearful,my wife will die,Yet we Should be getting to the Varaprasta Stage,I

think it is the right word,But that would seem Enjoyable,Visting different

Temples,and For us Visiting India.Another Point is the condition I am in Now! My

wife is very very sick,We cannot even Sleep Together For 10Years,As she needs a

Hospitail Bed,As She cannot walk upstairs,Where we Build the Master Bedroom,so I

end Up,taking rest on the Sofa,So if she needs me in the Night I am There,

Alot of Husbands And Wifes, We know From the Liver Clinic,Has Abandoned thier

Wifesand Husbands,As Sense Gratification Stops,When the Wife is Very Sick!I love

my wife very much,But our Years After the Children Left, Are not as Nice as We

were Expecting,Yet I could never Leave her alone sick,So this Attachment Goes

On,and On,But this could be said for women Also! I could never Leave Her

Alone,being sick as she is,But I also know,if she dont get a liver Transplant

soon,She will Die,Yet I dont feel Like Id be free,I feel Like I will be

Alone,And if I didnt have my realtionship with Lord Krsna,Id Be a Mess!So lots

of Entanglement,Yet I know Krsna is doing Everything,and sometimes ,he makes it

Extra Hard,for His Devotees,Which is called Krsna's Mercy,Because He makes the

Devotee in Distress,so He can Become Detached to The Material World!

That is my Thoughts on this Subject,,Your servant Jaya Kesava dasa

 

 

-

deito01

Dear Sis, listen, did you read my post just which i put yesterday, i

wrote how i used to get attracted towards feminism.. and after

[Guest guest]

Dear Brother Please accept my respects to you.

 

firstly, By Lords Grace, let me share what i think and what i know

about this.

 

> I think for a man,So called Falling in love with a woman,Perpetuates

> Material Life! First You become a couple,Than There is Children,Then

> Grandchildren,Which are very materially enjoyable! I guess this Goes

> the same for a Women Also!

 

Yes this is true, falling in so called material love and hankering for

companionship is Material and affect of Maya.

 

In this two fold manifestation, i am able to lose only my sexual

desire, but not the desire for companionship.. even today i feel i may

need someone to live with me , throughout life.. i am in the process

of understanding and really feeling that i belong to universal sole,

and there is no one else for company and I am complete with myself

when i am at My Lords Lotus Feet.

 

So, this is a two step web, where we fall... i am a fallen soul too,

and while waking up, i am able to wake up till a level where sex has

no meaning, but i am not able to digest that even companionship, so

called material companionship also has no meaning...

 

and when i understand that , i will be in " Varaprasta " Stage. So a

long way to go my dear brother.. " Varaprasta " stage of life is where ,

at end of which we can dissolve " Duality " .

 

once we dissolve duality, we are able to understand our true forms, as

part of universal sole, Krsna, and our true responsibility to Service

Hari. Until duality is there in our minds for material nature, it is

really not possible.

 

> Varaprasta Stage,I think it is the right word,But that would seem

> Enjoyable,Visting different Temples,and For us Visiting

> India.

 

Enjoyable, for an god loving mind, yes it is enjoyable , but in what

terms, you being so much interested in Lord, you will visit such

places where you can know lord more, and where you can get mercy ..

and you treat your wife, as just your companion, just liek acompanion

of two fallen souls trying to help each other in the process of

serving Hari.. isn't this is what we are supposed to do,m when we are

under the influence of Duality, this will ultimately lead to

dissolution of This Duality itself.

 

> Another Point is the condition I am in Now! My wife is very

> very sick,We cannot even Sleep Together For 10Years,As she needs a

> Hospitail Bed,As She cannot walk upstairs,Where we Build the Master

> Bedroom,so I end Up,taking rest on the Sofa,So if she needs me in

> the Night I am There, I love my wife very

> much,But our Years After the Children Left, Are not as Nice as We

> were Expecting,Yet I could never Leave her alone sick,So this

> Attachment Goes On,and On,But this could be said for women Also! I

> could never Leave Her Alone,being sick as she is,But I also know,if

> she dont get a liver Transplant soon,She will Die,Yet I dont feel

> Like Id be free,I feel Like I will be Alone,And if I didnt have my

> relationship with Lord Krsna,Id Be a Mess!So lots of Entanglement

 

I see , as per my analysis, You like me and many others, may have done

many sins and bad karmas, in previous lives..

 

By the grace of Lord, even though you were born in environment where

you were bound to commit many more sins, It seems like by his divine

mercy , Shown through your guru, you have reversed this process.

 

and yes is Krsna is more merciful, as he is usually to his devotees,

he will try to end the affliction and burn all there previous karmas

soon, So in this acceleration of process, which demands fast self

realization, may lead to seemingly worldly pain..

 

But see, you are suffering, and you Love your wife, so though you are

not able to get sense gratification, you are able to live without

that.. So , you finally get free form sense gratification int he

normal way ..

 

Also, your wife, in all this pain, is fastly burning her Bad Krama ..

meaning , she will know he pain in material world, and will be easy to

understand the spiritual and painless nature of Lord Hari, and our

own, in our original forms.

 

and she will also reach lord sooner..

 

So what will happen at last , you and she will die, with understanding

of Hari, So what great deal, we know that you are souls , and hence

you and your wife will leave this body, whcih Krishna made you use as

a great tool, to burn all your bad Karma, and you will reach his lotus

feet, OR you will reach a place, in higher planets where again you can

continue this Saadhnaa, of Krishna Consciousness and than reach Hari..

ever Blissful, free form all this affliction ..

 

> A lot of Husbands And Wifes, We know From the

> Liver Clinic,Has Abandoned their Wifes and Husbands,As Sense

> Gratification Stops,When the Wife is Very Sick!

 

They are not realized enough, and hence these souls without knowing

krishna and nature, they are trying to get sense gratification ,that

is the difference between great souls like you and them..

 

 

This time, for example, one husband ditched his wife, because he

cannot have sex with her, and she is diseased.. than HE will again

take birth, and he will be ditched , and he will be impotent for some

reason... so see how he is sowing the seed of future birth and death ,

and continuing cycle, by his own acts.. lol

 

And as far as your children are concerned,

 

Krishna is making you understand that neither your children are your

property neither someone else.. all are in this material world,

manifesting for there illicit desires..

 

and then this will lead to " Vairagya " which is essential for moksha..

 

Same with Women also.. as the theory of karma has no difference, based

on sex.. But the difference is only in our work we do, and how much we

can control.. and this depends on how mcuh power we have..

 

for women it is more difficult to control, because, They have got gift

to give birth, and hence they may have intense desire to become

someones wife, and become someones mother and so on ..

 

so with more power materially, the journey becomes more tough, and can

be crossed only by Gods Grace, like in case of Kunti, Meera, Radha

Maatha / Radha Rani etc..

 

The rules of karma is same for everyone, but it seems different for

each one fo us depending on what WE POCESS.

 

This is my view my dear brother, Keshava.. Even your name is name of

Hari, so even taking your name is like blessing to me..

 

 

And i want to congratulate to you form heart that you are a real

" Nobel Soul " and no doubt, krishna is merciful on you... seeing the

way of life you are leading and still seeing the heightened level of

Thinking you have.. i am sure.... and seeing you being a great devotee

and a very noble and humble soul.. i am sure... Krishna is merciful

on you.. else you would have also delved deeper int he clutches of

material nature.. if Krishna had not been merciful on you and your wife..

 

 

One thing i recommend is, To know about the manifestation and

knowledge on how life forms and how it dissolves, as this will remove

lot of fear form you my dear brother.

 

this will remove fear and pain of losing your dear ones in future, and

losing the companionship of your children what you were expecting etc

etc..

 

and when you reach Lotus feet, please pray for me, and tell krishna,

that even i love him and please show some mercy on this totally fallen

soul too...

 

 

My dear brother Keshava, i just want to say you name, as many times as

possible, as Keshava means Hari himself.

 

Warm Regards and Heartful Respects for A great devotee like you, who

else other than a devotee of Krsna, have so much love and humbleness.

 

 

accept me your servant, and let me know if i can do something for you ..

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

 

 

 

, " Jaya Kesava Dasa " <krsnajoe wrote:

>

> Dear Dieto,Please Accept my Obiesances!

> I read Your Post A day ago too,and wanted to reply,also!

[Guest guest]

> Why do scriptures and some saints like Kabir compare 'woman' to >maaya?

 

Maya, or illusion is a part of the Divine Mother, Para shakti. People

who think the world is evil/mithya/void will always be against the

Mother, or women in general.

 

There are 2 ways of looking at sadhna- 1 is this world is a place to

implement the divine will, & to find God here while living in world.

 

The other is- the world is a evil place, we have to run away to

Nirvana/Moksha.

 

It is the 2nd philosophy that is against Nature, & by extension,

women, who are a direct form of the Devi. All world denying

philosophies are against women. Women represent creativity, beauty,

gentleness. People who see this world as evil, has no use for these

qualities.

 

 

Now look at philosophies that affirm the world, that preach we have to

live & work in world while getting enlightenment. Tantra is main- it

places women at top. Some sects only allow women to become gurus.

Tantra directly worshippes the Feminine part of God in her man forms.

 

For a long time, Tantra was the only world affirming philsophy, till

Sri Aurobindo came along. He also says that the Godess is Supreme.

Aurobindo accepted that women were superior to men, & allowed his

disciple the Mother(this is what she was called) to take over his

ashram & his work, as he felt that women had an edge over men.

 

So dont reject saints that reject women, reject their world denying

philosophy.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

I just want to add that at last we will end up realizing that we are

all part of this Para Shakti, and we are all feminine in nature,

regardless of whether being born as male or female in material world..

and we are all serving the supreme Purusha..

 

I donno how many will agree, this is just my understanding and

belief.. though i would like to know all your views.

 

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

> > Why do scriptures and some saints like Kabir compare 'woman' to

>maaya?