Todays Bhagavad-Gita Class As it is

[Guest guest]

> , " Jaya Kesava Dasa " <krsnajoe@>

> > Prabhupada:

> >

>

> > So factually the karmis, jnanis, yogis, are a little, maybe

> elevated than the animals. So these rascals, they are on the

bodily concept of life, and they are thinking that " I am

nationalist, " " I am yogi, " " I am this, I am that,

> I am that... " You see. This is the philosophy.

>

 

I take strong objection to the word " Rascal " written for jnanis,

and yogis by Prabhupad. In one old post this Jayakeshava has

written Vivekananda was also a Rascal.

 

Prabhupada's using this abusive word for Jananis and yogis shows

clearly his lower state of spirituality and his rotten brain.

 

Bhagwan Krishna himself has appreciated Jnanis and Yogis and this

id**t prabhupada is calling them Rascals and comparing them to shit.

 

I request moderators to ban this man from posting such hateful

remarks

 

 

ansuya

[Guest guest]

Comeon Guys, He is just pasting what his guru, has told, without

even altering a single word..

 

yes even i object the word " Rascal " , as it is disrespect for Jnani

and Yogis.. and disrespect to anythign in existance is not correct,

as everyhtign is in deed a from and part of the supreme.

 

but Jaya Keshava Dasa, is bringing a lot of Spiritual content and

humble nature, and in front of all these, just a usage fo a word,

by someone else, whcih was copied with the text he posted dosen't

matter.

 

actually we need to understand the intent,

 

I call myself fool and sinner, and when i call my friend also by

same words, than it is not the same meaning isn't it.

 

When i todl " Me and my sister are sinners " , i never humiliated my

sister, nor i hurt her, But when some passerby reads the line, he

may feel i am a harsh person, who abuses his own sister.

 

this is perception, bnut this perception should be won by tolerance.

 

Its my humble request for you all, my dear brothers and sister, If

we cannot forgive and forget such small things, than what great aim

do we hope, whcih needs forgiving everythign, and dissolving our own

ego..

 

Let anyone say , i am a rascal, and now if i revert back to him, and

start retaliating, than does that make a difference between me not

being a rascal.. and

 

 

DOES A REAL YOGI OR GNANI, BOTHER ABOUT SUCH WORDS. OR SHOULD HE

BOTHER, FOR ATTAINING WHAT , HE SHOULD BOTHER..

 

one who is aiming to get out of whole world, is disturbed by such

small words, .. i do not want to believe this.

 

Please be tolerant to such things, and specailly when we do not knwo

the intent.

 

And again all the thigns above what i wrote is not to support

someone or tell something, ..

 

I have written what is felt is fit for those jivas who aim at

enlightenment.. Please accept all this as my humble suggessions to

my fellow Jiva's

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

>

> > , " Jaya Kesava Dasa " <krsnajoe@>

> > > Prabhupada:

> > >

> >

> > > So factually the karmis, jnanis, yogis, are a little,

maybe

> > elevated than the animals. So these rascals, they are on the

> bodily concept of life, and they are thinking that " I am

> nationalist, " " I am yogi, " " I am this, I am that,

> > I am that... " You see. This is the philosophy.

> >

>

> I take strong objection to the word " Rascal " written for

jnanis,

> and yogis by Prabhupad. In one old post this Jayakeshava has

> written Vivekananda was also a Rascal.

>

> Prabhupada's using this abusive word for Jananis and yogis

shows

> clearly his lower state of spirituality and his rotten brain.

>

> Bhagwan Krishna himself has appreciated Jnanis and Yogis and

this

> id**t prabhupada is calling them Rascals and comparing them to

shit.

>

> I request moderators to ban this man from posting such hateful

> remarks

>

>

> ansuya

>

[Guest guest]

Deito..

 

We are not yet yogis and gnanis (and hence not YET Rascals)....So

retaliation is natural.

 

BTW... I too feel fanatics have to be ignored rather than tolerated. That

is the right way. I too disagreed with Prabhupada as I do not agree with

most of his philosophies....That does not mean my calling him names is

justified.

 

I agree in principle with Ansuya.. although, she could have avoided using

certain words..

 

Dearest Ansuya...We stand a greater chance of becoming " RASCALS..ie Yogis

and Gnanis. " if we can sublimate our Anger,,, )

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

On 10/8/07, deito01 <no_reply > wrote:

>

> Comeon Guys, He is just pasting what his guru, has told, without

> even altering a single word..

[Guest guest]

, deito01 <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Deito,

 

Reference your posting - in my case I have not accused jaya keshava

dasa because i have stated that " your write up quoting prabhupada

etc., etc.,

 

Now I would like to give another view of sri prabhu pada. In 1985

when i had gone to kaivalyadham yoga institute at lonavala,

Maharashtra, there i met a customs officer and during spiritual

discussion he said prabhupada has a 'gutter tongue' and that he

wanted all his baggae not to be opened as he did not want any

customs duty be paid on the goods he had brought from usa. I did not

believe him as person of sri prabhupada stature stooping so low but

now after 22 years, reading write up of him by jaya keshava das

confirms that he indeed had a " GUTTER TONGUE " .

 

Remember true saints even when you place a knife on their throat

won't abuse or curse you. There are many such examples and one

example which comes to my mind is when saint guru nanak appointed

next guru and left this mortal world his son kicked the old newly

appointed guru who though abused and beaten went back to guru nanak's

son and started massaging his legs saying, " sir, i am an old man

having only bones, by kicking me your legs might have been hurt so

please let me massage them " .

 

This is truly realised soul. What a difference between a

" GUTTER TONGUE " .

 

My write was directly to jaya keshava das and i hope to hear from

him what he has to say.

 

With kind regards

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT - Cheers! )

 

>

> Comeon Guys, He is just pasting what his guru, has told, without

> even altering a single word..

[Guest guest]

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

 

> I agree in principle with Ansuya.. although, she could have

 

Dear Balaji,

 

If so called GREAT BHAKTA and Krishna's servant (Prabhupada)

can use dirty words like stool, and Rascal and that too for person

like Vivekananda, then I am a common person. I can use even more

filthy words if moderators were not there

 

ISKCON walas are ready to reject Krishna and Gita, if it goes

against their Prabhupada. Prabhupada was nothing just a good

organiser. I dont treat him a bhakta even. Because a bhakta will

not reject Jnanana, and Yoga, which Shri Krishna himself appreciated.

 

This is not Bhakti. This is fanaticism.

 

ansuya

[Guest guest]

Retaliation is natural, and it is so called " Our " so

called " Nature " , and it the ocean of this " nature/Prakriti/Maya " ,

we have to cross. and the key to this is realizing that there is

nothign that is " our " , and hence we have nothign whcih is " Our

Nature " .

 

I personally feel we have to take everythign as an oppurtunity or

directive form Lord, to improve ourselves,. rather than increation

our affliction and getting down the ladder.

 

So i felt this si the best way, and you al are my dear brothers and

sisters , from whom i have learnt lot, so i also thought of sharing

this with you all. But if you all feel this is of no use and I am

that Ignorant an human being, Kindly Forgive me and ignore these

contents posted.

 

> Dearest Ansuya...We stand a greater chance of

> becoming " ..ie Yogis and Gnanis. " if we can

> sublimate our Anger,,, )

 

For the above content from you, I am In Agrement with you, Dear

Brother Bala. and that was the sole purpose.

 

> I too disagreed with Prabhupada as I do not

> agree with most of his philosophies

> most of his philosophies....That does not mean my

> calling him names is justified.

 

First , my dear brother, Do you or Me or anyone else, Have the

active duty of Justifying others or Is Justifying our own selves and

improving is our actual active duty.

 

Second, where we stand for Benifitm,, by judging othersd or our own

self.

 

and Third, Is there any philosophy that is " His " or " Mine " or

Someone else's.

 

Fourth, Are you and he different, and if we think so, than we stand

NO chance of even merging in " Nirguna Brahman " , Forget Approaching

The Lotus Feet.

 

Please let me know if you feel any of my wrds are wrong, and I Will

definitely Correct it.as My aim is to approach his Lotus feet for

Mercy.

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

>

> Deito..

>

> We are not yet yogis and gnanis (and hence not YET Rascals)....So

> retaliation is natural.

>

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

>

shows

> clearly his lower state of spirituality and his rotten brain.

>

> I request moderators to ban this man from posting such hateful

> remarks

>

 

Dear Ansuya

 

Im just contemplating how insulting the word 'rascal' really is. I

will often refer to children as 'little rascals' when they are

naughty & I can remember teachers at school using this word now &

then. Fair enough, it should not be used towards someone you respect,

but in the great scheme of things Ive heard far worse on this site.

Far worse.

 

Now Im contemplating how insulted you might feel if I were to say you

had a " lower state of spirituality & a rotten brain? " Just something

for you to think about......

 

What did someone say the other day about getting our own house in

order first?

 

With love

 

Farah

[Guest guest]

Dearest Deito...

 

If we are talking of the ultimate... You actually cannot talk, because what

ever we say will be meaningless.

 

the key to this is realizing that there is

nothign that is " our " , and hence we have nothign whcih is " Our

Nature " .

and Third, Is there any philosophy that is " His " or " Mine " or

Someone else's.

 

Fourth, Are you and he different, and if we think so, than we stand

NO chance of even merging in " Nirguna Brahman " , Forget Approaching

The Lotus Feet.

 

Also... In the previous posts, you and kesava dasa were complimenting each

other...on how wonderful each of you are....

 

let me ask you... are you and he different??? then why compliment each

other? then as per your logic, what chance do we stand to reach the lotus

feet of Hari, let alone merging with the ULTIMATE brahman???

 

When we are discussing a point there will be duality... when someone

disagrees.. it means there are 2 philosophies... like you say all Hari...

which some one else does not agree....Also does that mean since prabhupada

disagreed with so many Real Gnanis and Yogis, he cannot reach the Lotus

feet???

Are you saying that all the spiritual discussions that have been held in

this country by many great acharyas including madhwa and ramanuja over the

past thousands of years were a hindrance??

 

I personally feel we have to take everythign as an oppurtunity or

directive form Lord, to improve ourselves,. rather than increation

our affliction and getting down the ladder

 

Also you mentioned about getting down the ladder... this is funny... firstly

you say all are one... then where is the ladder... where do you get down

from???? we are all the same truth right??

 

First , my dear brother, Do you or Me or anyone else, Have the

active duty of Justifying others or Is Justifying our own selves and

improving is our actual active duty.

 

 

 

Dear Deito.. Do you realise that by posting the above response to my answer.

You are trying to " Justify yourself??? " )..In fact all of us humans

will.... As you yourself have done...

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

On 10/8/07, deito01 <no_reply > wrote:

 

>

> Retaliation is natural, and it is so called " Our " so

[Guest guest]

Its all effect of time, when time generates events to improve us,

and we move ahead step by step.. we start realising things in better

way.

 

adn this Powerful time, is a strict follower of the supreme will,

and hence in simple words we can copnclude that what one thinks is

nothign but what god wants him to think.

 

as nothing other than his will shall be entertained ever , anywhere,

neither material nor spiritual.

 

and when i told we dont know the " intent " , what i means is exactly

detailed by my Sister. Who knows Prabhupada may be thinking all

humans, gnanis , yogis etc as his own kids, and scolding him rascals

and what not, just liek a mother or father or brother scolding there

loved ones..

 

this i am telling because , if he was always spelling names of Hari,

and Krsna, that alone would be sufficient to bring him to knowledge

and one who is in knowledge of hari can never treat others as in-

different form him..

 

I donno, lemme know if you all feel i am wrong..

 

 

and i Am totally aginst the philoasophy that " If he can do, i can do

more.. and so on .. "

 

Is this our culture.. even a great human, who was mere mortal like

gandhi, was great because he did not do, what others did to him.

 

we have to think where we stand and we have to improve always, our

own selves, and constantly try to understand this manifest, as this

understanding is nothign different fomr knowing the Lord.

 

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, " janfarah_strongspirit "

<janfarah_strongspirit wrote:

 

> Dear Ansuya

>

> Im just contemplating how insulting the word 'rascal' really is. I

[Guest guest]

Deito..

 

May be some of us too think of prabhupada as our child and scold him. Use

of the same logic...

 

love

 

Bala..

 

 

On 10/8/07, deito01 <no_reply > wrote:

>

> Its all effect of time, when time generates events to improve us,

[Guest guest]

Also Deito..

 

As per your logic, since the name of Hari and Krsna alone did not make

prabhupada respect all human beings... May be something more is needed...

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

 

> On 10/8/07, deito01 <no_reply > wrote:

> this i am telling because , if he was always spelling names of Hari,

> > and Krsna, that alone would be sufficient to bring him to knowledge

> > and one who is in knowledge of hari can never treat others as in-

> > different form him..

[Guest guest]

My Dear Bala,

 

Yes , what ever you brought out everything is correct, I stand no

chance, I , you and everyone has to reduce this DUality, we cannot

abolish this duality at once, it has to be reduced and finally taken

to Zero, and i am sure you know what this taking duality to Zero

means..

 

this is AIm and by applying Debate or Rajas or Thamo on this

duality ,we dont stand much chance of making duality

Zero,application fo Rajas on this duality is better than application

of Thamas, and similarly Application OF Sattva on Duality is better

than Application of Rajas and Not applying anythign on Duality is

when the duality no more exists in our conciousness, and our

consiousness is no more ours.

 

Yes this is the aim, I have to struggle, and When i replay to you or

anyone, i try to justity not to you all, but more to myself, and

this justification to self expands conciousness, and one day we will

be one with Conciousness.

 

Off course, if i has stood at very high chances of Approachign his

lotus feet, than i would have not replied, and This is absolutely

true. This si the very definition of Purna Samadhi. where we do not

reach to any impluses, i mean ANY.

 

 

 

-- Brother Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

 

> If we are talking of the ultimate... You actually cannot talk,

because what

> ever we say will be meaningless.

[Guest guest]

Ha haa... lol

 

I am thinking whether to answer this or not, but still let me answer

it off..

 

There i ddi not know his intent, i had to guess,

 

In your case i know the intent is with disrespect to That Prabupadha,

and not considering him as a child.

 

What i told was, without knowing the intent how can we have intent of

him being wrong ..

 

btu seriously i do not know if he is bad or good, and why he used that

word, btu without knwoing how can i confirm he is bad.

 

I hope i am able to convey what i mean.

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

>

> Deito..

>

> May be some of us too think of prabhupada as our child and scold

[Guest guest]

Dear Brother Bala.

 

Well, this is where inividualtiy can be used, each one can decide

what is enough and what more is neede and proced with his ways.

 

But what I or anyone else comntemplates, never affects the truth,

whcih is Subject to Realization.

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

> Also Deito..

> As per your logic, since the name of Hari and Krsna alone did not

[Guest guest]

, " janfarah_strongspirit "

<janfarah_strongspirit wrote:

> had a " lower state of spirituality & a rotten brain? " Just something

> for you to think about......

>

 

Dear Farah, I am not claiming to be a high soul or great Bhakta. I am

a common woman, and i am free to retaliate to the harsh words with

eaually harsh words. and I am not sorry for that. Yes we do use

little rascal for children. It is not a question of words, but the

intent.

 

These Bhaktas have every right to say anything to anyone? earlier one

so called Bhakta used insulting words for some people calling them

Blasphemus and ignorants.

 

My question is very simple. do bhaktas have a right to insult other?

A person of the caliber of Prabhupada who spread Krishna bhakti

throughout the world, has a right to use filthy language ?

 

If they call Vivekananda or any other yogi a rascal, I have a right

to return in same language. I am a common woman not a yogi or bhakta

or jnani

 

ansuya

[Guest guest]

, deito01 <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Deito, Bala and others. OK let us forget the word " Rascal " . Let

us see what Prabhupada says about Jnanis and yogis. According to him

those on the path of jnana and yoga are going wrong way and thus are

rascals.

 

Will you please claify (Mr. Jaya Keshava das also invited to respond),

If Prabhupada is correct in saying so ? Does it mean Gita is wrong and

this is correct ?

 

So either Prabhupada is correct or Gita. What is your opinion on

this ?

 

ansuya

[Guest guest]

Dearest Deito..

 

You are right... Each has his own point of view...We do not know what the

other person's intention was. Disrespecting prabhupada ??? When did I do

that,,,,????

 

Love

 

Bala...

 

 

> <%40>, deito01

> <no_reply wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

i am free to retaliate to the harsh words with

> eaually harsh words.

 

so called Bhakta used insulting words for some people calling them

> Blasphemus and ignorants.

>

> My question is very simple. do bhaktas have a right to insult

other?

 

 

Dear Ansuya

 

Let me clarify the point I was making. I am of the opinion that there

is no need to resort to the use of insulting or degrading language of

any sort. But my point to you was that if you don't like it, then

please dont do it. In my opinion you were coming back with far more

insulting words than those you were complaining about in the first

place. The previous post has obviously pressed your buttons, but

there is no need to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

 

As for words like blasphemus & ignorant - this just makes me smile. I

have heard these words on this site, but sadly they are usually

directed at people of other faiths & so these insults are overlooked.

 

To be honest with you Ansuya, I dont usually bother myself with this

kind of energy wasting, finger pointing, 'you said, she said' sort of

dialogue. Im now looking at the 'subject heading' of this post &

reminding myself & everyone else of how far removed from the purpose

of this site, this conversation has become. This entangled

conversation is serving no useful purpose any more for me, you, or

anyone reading it. I too, am an ordinary woman, who comes on here to

share & learn with regards to spiritual matters. Anything else is a

waste.

 

Im looking forward to Aum's continued posts on the chakras &

granthis... or anything else that will help us all on our spiritual

journey...

 

With love to you

 

Farah

[Guest guest]

That was not for you my dear bala, That was for Ansuya, consider a

case may be even he is bad, but my point is do we need to proove it

wiht harsh words form our side.

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

>

> other person's intention was. Disrespecting prabhupada ??? When

did I do

>

[Guest guest]

You never did it Brother, that was not intended for you ..

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, " Balachander Govindaraghavan "

<balachand wrote:

>

> Dearest Deito..

>

> You are right... Each has his own point of view...We do not know

[Guest guest]

Two things i see in you which i want to point out just because I TREAT

YOU LIKE MY SISTER AND LOVE YOU.

 

first :

 

It is not what you are, you may just be a women now and not

spiritually heightened as yourself told... BUT IS IT THE SAME YOU WANT

TO BE OR YOU WANT TO GO FURTHER SPIRITUALLY.

 

The NEXT STAGE HAS ITS SEED IN THE CURRENT STAGE MY DEAR SISTER.

 

second :

 

NO Krsna Devotees Doesnt have ANY RIGHT to address others with VULGAR

words. BUT WHO KNWOS what is vulgar to them.. just as you told, if you

call " little Rascals " to children you love, than it is definitely not

VULGAR.. because it is of your Love. so WE , AT LEAST I PERSONALLY DO

NOT KNOW WHAT WAS THE INTENT. I DO NOT KNOW IF HE WAS REALLY SCOLDING

OR CALLING OTHERS RASCALS TREATING THEM LIKE HIS KIDS.

 

I in no way try to tell what i feel others much ,but When you told

" Hope you dont see Hidimba in me " the very day i\you made me smile,

and for the very day, I see your very post and all the innocence in

them... so my heart wanted to convey this to you, so that i can see my

sister grow.. if i have hurt you being harsh.. lease forgive me , and

forget this post ..

 

-- Brother Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

> , " janfarah_strongspirit "

> <janfarah_strongspirit@> wrote:

> > had a " lower state of spirituality & a rotten brain? " Just something

> > for you to think about......

> >

>

> Dear Farah, I am not claiming to be a high soul or great Bhakta. I am

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Farah, MY Sister, I respect you a lot.. these are words of a

resolved mind.

 

 

love you ,

 

-- Brother Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, " janfarah_strongspirit "

<janfarah_strongspirit wrote:

> Let me clarify the point I was making. I am of the opinion that there

> is no need to resort to the use of insulting or degrading language of

[Guest guest]

Dear Ansuya,Please Accept my Humble Obiesances!Please Know I meant no Harm!I

cannot repeat everything I already Said,Please Read The post Before this one,and

youll know I am Lowborn,and very fortunate to know ANYTHING ABOUT

SPIRITTUALITY,Yet Alone Lord Krsna,The Maha Mantra,Lord Caitanya or easpesally

Dear Radha! though Lowborn ,My wifes Inisiated name is Radhanam!Wow ,such

mercy,I dont think you can understand how mercyful Srila Prabhupada Was to Us!

For you to call Him( rotten brain.) is certainly more offesive than anything he

has ever said?

And to Say the Word( Shit ) is certainly more offensivem than Srila Prabhupada

Saying the correct word Stool!

I dont Think You know What Stool is,Until youve taken care of a Dearthly Sick

Wife,Whos Liver is not working,Than after youve empted Pottys, for Ten

Years,Taken care of the Person You married, in front of Lord Jaganath,Then you

can say stool.and know what Shit Means!Your languge was uncalled for,But i am

not saying " I request moderators to ban this woman from posting such hateful

remarks " I am asking you,who call yourself spiritual,yet is Selfrightous,To

forgive what was said to a Bunch of Mlechas,In 1972!I guess its my fault For

Repeating Word For Word What my Guruji was saying ,Just Trying to Reach one

person,and help them become a Krsna Devotee,Than my Life Would Be a Success!I

pray to the Moderator To please Let me Stay,and Forgive me For Offending You

unknowingly!

I honestly say.With Love,Your Servant,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Jaya Kesava Dasa

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

ansuya80

I take strong objection to the word " Rascal " written for jnanis,

and yogis by Prabhupad. In one old post this Jayakeshava has

[Guest guest]

Is there anyone in material existance, who can decide, if one will

stay or not, If so let me know.

 

neither anythign in this world is slayed , nor is slain.

 

for, one does his own good or evil, depending on his own path which

he chooses. for the one who is without sin, Lord is the warrant. He

stays where Lord wants him to.

 

My Dear Brother, you will stay if krishna wants you to stay..

nothign else can in anyway influence... and this is applicable not

just here, everywhere.

 

just remember one thing, what i have recently learnt myself. Always

treat everythign as equal to your own self, as everything in

existamce ios flowing form the eternal Hari.

 

I am hurt by your feeling, and i can feel your nobel nature, Please

forgive me, for the sin that i participated in such a thread, but

also stop your participation in such events my dear brother.

 

Thats why often with advancement, we get more and more silent..

 

-- Deito

 

See this sloka of HariAsthakam, In RigVeda, Said By Prahladha.

 

Prana prayena padheyam, samsara vyadhi nasanam,

Dukhathyantha parithranam, hari rithyakshara dwayam

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

, " Jaya Kesava Dasa " <krsnajoe

wrote:

>

> Dear Ansuya,Please Accept my Humble Obiesances!Please Know I meant