Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 In this country of Bhrigu and Parashar, astrology still holds an important place in our life. If we leave aside some fake practitioners, majority of astrologers are still able to successfully forecast about any thing in life including death of a person. Few astrolgers in combination of some related sidhhis are even able to " know " (if not forecast due to some reasons) some facts about previous birth and future births too. It has been much debated since long about the freedom of Karma and Prefixed Destiny and this is not the motive of this post, but what i would like to submit here is that its a general opinion that a person starts his spiritual journey at the some particular time when an auspicious combination of planets in his natal chart come in to force. It is very much true if such a combination is not there , that person cannot even think about . Position of Guru in anyone' s chart alone is sufficent to figure out whether the person has inclined towards or not. Broadly, this is the mechanism by which Paramatma has programmed the result of our karmas. Now the question arises, if the progress in our also depend upon the positions of planets in our natal charts? or I mean the fate of our is predestined and can be known? Its very much true also that the Ishwara has control over every thing whether they are planets or our karmas. Still, in material planes as we know astrology hold good, then what about ? Plz do reply as much as possible with all the possible dimensions and also plz forgive my ignorance. Flying to Bangalore or Bhopal? Search for tickets here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Sohumji, this is a ver good question. Yes planets also affect our spiritual progress. For example- how many Rickwallahas or beggars have you seen who are very religious?(if they are, they dont stay poor). How will starving people think about God? We must have an overall good birth chart to even think of God. Regards spiritual astrology, yes there are techniques that can tell how much progress you will make. But Im not so convinced. Most of books/articles I read on topic usually show how their Guru was advanced due to special, while everyone else isnt. They also use very forced/contrived logic to prove their point. There are also Spiritual Yogas(Jyotish Yogas, not Patanjalis Yoga), but I have seen them in chart if even Athiests, while famous saints have none. One can know general spiritual progress from chart, but such big questions as whether one will get Moksha - Im not so sure. One reason is, as one becomes very advanced in Sadhna, one can no longer be controlled by planets. This happens completely only when you have complete 100% control over mind - so some Yogis like Yoganandas followers who claim they are above Astrology as they practice Yoga, are fooling themself. If you can watch your thoughts non-stop for 24 hours, you will become free from astrology. But as ones progress increases, one is less controlled by planets, & more by Higher Divine forces. As such, it becomes less difficult to predict their progress. But planets still have their power. One person(a very advanced Sadhak) I know was forced to leave his country due to war, & later got very sick. This completely stopped his Sadhna. This was predictable through his astrological chart, so here we have a case of normal materialistic things(predictable by astrology) affecting a mans spiritual future. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 , so hum <jigyaasuu wrote: > > In this country of Bhrigu and Parashar, astrology still holds an >important place in our life. If we leave aside some fake Thanks dear jigyasu, You have started a very important topic here. I do not have much knowledge about astrology. Shanracer has some knowledge of astrology and we have a good astrologer here with the name Jyotishguru, who is silent now a days. However, each life is given to us for a particular job, which is pre-decided at the time of last birth's end. We are born in a special combination of planets...which indicates this purpose. Now if someone can read it properly or not depends upon the astrologer. Wrong predictions may prove the astrologer wrong but not the astrology. Position of Jupitor has a great effect on spiritual life. Normally Jupitor in good combination with moon or in 12th or 11th house signify spiritual awakening. Even if an atheist has jupitor in 11 or 12 house, he may suddenly change. It is also not necessary if jupitor is not in 11 or 12, person will not wake up....there are many other factors..but 11th and 12th is certain. Position of Rahu and Ketu tells if a person would go for Tantra or would get siddhis or not. The problem with horoscopes is that we can surely tell after the incident happened... predicting before is sometimes tricky...it is like Nostradamus' poems ! In autobiography of a Yogi, Swami Yukteswarananda asks his disciple Yogananda to wear some metalic bangle to ward off bad effects of planets..... He was a great yogi..and if he asked Yogananda to follow astrology instead of showing his own powers, means the great yogis also harmonise with planets and dont really try to disturb their workings Much can be written on this...let us see what others have to say Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > > , so hum <jigyaasuu@> wrote: > > > > In this country of Bhrigu and Parashar, astrology still holds an > >important place in our life. If we leave aside some fake I dont believe in astrology, because if planets are controlling everything there is no meaning of free will and our life. We are puppets ? How many will agree with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: > I dont believe in astrology, because if planets are controlling > everything there is no meaning of free will and our life. We are > puppets ? sorry .You are absolutely incorrect. Its not planets really which are controlling our life its karma. We take birth according to our past karma (planets are placed according to ones karma)and astrology is a great science which can help us unravel many things and make difference to our lives too provided we get correct guidance O.K. BROTHER DIETO. I GOT YOU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 > I dont believe in astrology, because if planets are controlling > everything there is no meaning of free will and our life. We are > puppets ? no we are not, because : 1.) celestial bodies do not " control " , they " influence " . 2.) our free will is ours, but excersizing our free will results in " decision or choice " and what we choose depends ont solely on our free will, but also the influential circumstances , effected by these bodies. 3.) it is the way by which limits And definitions are made on unlimited desires of baddha jiva ( us ). 4.) it is the part of a greater design, ultimately designed to free us from the clutched of material manifest and giive us our original forms. 5.) the influence of celestial bodies is overcome by many means, like knowledge, by mystics and by another kind of Jivas who are devotees of the lord. the planets , stars and other celestials and there controls are part of inferior control exerted by illusionary force of the lord. but this inferior control is executed in accordance with the superior force, which is none other than the will of Supreme Hari. And hari puts it in such a place, so that he is always present to protect his devotees, For example, once one attains moksha, he is neither bound nor under control of illusion itself, than it is obvious that any celestial body, from black holes ,till small satellites will have no control. This knowledge of mine if derived form the explainations in scriptures mainly given by Hari, Parasara Muni, Garga Muni and Veda Vyasa. I bow them and offer my humble manaskar at there revered feet. Let them please forgive this minute baby, in case i have commited any mistake. -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 , " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit wrote: .. Its not planets really which > are controlling our life its karma. We take birth according to our > past karma (planets are placed according to ones karma) I fully agree with Free Spirit here. Planets and their names are just coded message of mother nature to have a guess, what we did in last birth and what is the purpose of this life. It is our own karma which decide our this life...and karma of this life will decide the fate of next birth. Horoscope is just a shorthand coded language of mother nature to understand this. We are certainly not puppets in the hands of planets or karma. By offering our Karma to Lord we can break this chain of Karma. this is what Gita all talks about. Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 , deito01 <no_reply wrote: > > 2.) our free will is ours, but excersizing our free will results in > " decision or choice " and what we choose depends on solely on our free > will, but also the influential circumstances , effected by these bodies. > > the planets , stars and other celestials and there controls are part > of inferior control exerted by illusionary force of the lord. but this > inferior control is executed in accordance with the superior force, > which is none other than the will of Supreme Hari. Dear Deito sir, I am again confused. First you said free will is ours then you wrote Hari is controlling everything (that includes free will too). So which of your statement is correct? If we do not have free will it means we are mere puppets. Please I am not contradicting you, but trying to understand the whole idea of free will and Karma Ansuya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > Planets and their names are just > coded message of mother nature to have a guess, what we did in last > birth and what is the purpose of this life. Dear Aum, So this is exactly my point, if our past karma have decided everything for this birth, then doing anything from our side like doing sadhna, searching gurus all become useless and futile exercise? If our karma have decided we will be enlightened, we will be enlightened, why to do sadhna or bow before gurus ? Isnt it a valid point this time ansuya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Mayandi, you are so sweet devotee fo lord, and you have all the rights to contradict me, because neither i see ego nor isee bad attitude in you. The way you have asked me is like i usually ask others, like that of a inquisitive baby, and this is the nature of one who has " Brahma Jignyasa " Listen to these words Mayandi, I whcih i am putting in the most simplest of form , limited by my capability. And i am not sir, please don't call me like that, feels like ego is knocking on the door, and waiting for such words to enter inside. as i don't deserve that respect , as i am of no existence neither, i would be here, if i was great , in this form. We have free will, to make our choice, from a FIMITE set of choices Mayandi, This finite set, is defined and also a boundary is drawn by these controlling forces like senses, Celestial objects etc etc. But this finite set, and other finite sets, where WE CAN EXECUTE OUR FREE WILL< is just a small part of playground designed and maintained by the creative forces of Hari. And hari always monitors and executes control to define this playground. Now am i able to convey you my message mayandi, I am poor in communication, and if i write such posts whcih are not comprehend able, Anytime of the day or night, please urge me to convey you in understandable format. because what i write as reply to you, is first and foremost , intended for your understanding , and than everyone else.. -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: > > > Dear Deito sir, I am again confused. First you said free will is > ours then you wrote Hari is controlling everything (that includes free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Ansuya free will is there without a doubt (I think) but its our karma that binds us. Free will and karma are one and the same. What else is karma but free will. God gives you body, mind,speech, heart, limbs etc and freedom to use them as you want. But he says that you are not free of the results ie you will have to take responsibility of your karma ie otherwise you will misuse your freedom. Free will and kkarma are justice. Free will is nt only ours but everyones. For eg- We might think that God has given us a free will and hit someone because this is fredom which God has granted us but what about the other person who you hit- doesnt he have the right to be protected and done justice with. So this is karma. Krishna says- " the karma is in your hands but the fruit is in mine, do your karma Arjuna dont desire the fruit of karmas " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Perhaps a discussion on different types of Karma would be in order: There are 4 main types of Karma: 1. Sanchita- This is sum total of all our Karma in our millions of lives. 2. Prarabdha- The Soul, using its own Free Will, chooses some Karma from Sanchita to work out, & is born with those. Note again: The soul uses its free will, so it cant complain or blame God. 3. Kriyaman- The actions we are doing today 4. Agam- Actions we plan to do in future. 3 & 4 type of Karma can be used to destroy Sanchit & Prarabdha. However, even in Sanchit, there are 3 categories: 1. Fixed- These cant be changed, by any amount of work. Things like death, marriage, children come under this category. 2. Fixed/Non-Fixed - These can be changed with some effort. Like doing rituals, offering charity etc. Lot of effort/hard work can change these Karmas. Like a person who is middle class, can by working very hard, doing Puja to planets, giving charity, become rich even if his Karma doesnt allow it. 3. Non-Fixed- These can be changed easily. As you can see, there is plenty of scope for free will here. I read this great thing somewhere- Free Will is like money- the more you use it, the less you have this life, the less you use it, the more you have! love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 all answers are beautiful, dear dieto you are right planets donot control but influence aradhna ji , certainly our karmas are responsible for our future and as u said, our karmas are due to our free " will " now what is it which influence our " free will " ? you all might not agree but i strongly believe that we are just a puppet in this playground of the GOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 yes, be are all a part of his leela in the leela viduthi, for recreation of lord. This whole manifest is a dream or like a movie for his entertainment, and he is being entertained in his Yoga Nidra, Sleep of Trance.. I wanted to tell this, but thought this is not the right thread, as they are discussing the effects of celestial bodies. very correct, -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama harirnama Kevalam. , so hum <jigyaasuu wrote: > you all might not agree but i strongly believe that we are just a puppet in this playground of the GOD. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > Perhaps a discussion on different types of Karma would be in order: > 1. Fixed- These cant be changed, by any amount of work. Things like > death, marriage, children come under this category. Thanks shantnu, this was important to discuss different types of Karma to know the basic workings of Karma philosophy. Can you further elaborate why Fixed Karmas are fixed and why cant they be changed even with any amount of Tapas or good karma.?? Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 > Can you further elaborate why Fixed Karmas are fixed and why cant > they be changed even with any amount of Tapas or good karma.?? There might be several reasons: 1. Particular Karmas may be important spiritual lessons you have to learn this life- like if you were a violent person, you have to die a violent death to feel the pain you caused to others. Even God wont help you in this, as God never interferes with our spiritual progreess. 2. Sometimes, your Karma is strongly tied to others, & changing your Karma might mean changing theirs too. If a man wants to become rich, but his relatives are destined to be poor, he will never become rich, as then not only his, but all his relatives Karma will have to be changed. As another example, if Vivekanandas father had wanted to take Sanyaas, it would have never happened. As he was destined to marry a particular woman, & have Vivekanand as a child. Now Vivekanand has helped millions of people spiritually. If his father had tried to take Sanyaas, he would be fighting with spiritual Karma of that millions of people. Now, he had free will, & he could have tried, but it would be like ant trying to wrestle an elephant. In theory we can change any Karma, in practice the effor required maybe so huge as to make it impossible in practice(esp as God wont help us in these cases). So these Karma are called fixed. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 , so hum <jigyaasuu wrote: > > all answers are beautiful, dear dieto you are right planets donot control but influence > aradhna ji , certainly our karmas are responsible for our future > > and as u said, our karmas are due to our free " will " > > now what is it which influence our " free will " ? > > you all might not agree but i strongly believe that we are just a puppet in this playground of the GOD. >yes Jigyasu I do not believe that there is nothing such as free will. There is so much freedom I think its wrong to say that God is making you a puppet .Even though the strings are in his hands he isnt really making you a " puppet " . Maybe its just a matter of perception. I dont think at all that we are " puppets " .Freedom doent mean that God does nt lay rules. Its like saying tht India isnt a free country because we have to act according to laws otherwise we are punished.Because we have to abide certain laws it doesnt make us puppets. God's plan is best and greater than what we can ever percieve through our limited perceptions.God alone gives freedom. Society, culture, nation etc never can give you real freedom that is why people strive to attain freedom through moksha or some other kind of mukti, God's servitude or knowledge.Its true that nothing happens until God desires or wills but in his will we shoyuld have faith because that will is our freedom ie it gives us a lot of freedom. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 > God's plan is best and greater than what we can ever percieve > through our limited perceptions.God alone gives freedom. Society, > culture, nation etc never can give you real freedom that is why > people strive to attain freedom through moksha To put under accurate terms, we execute our will, under the control of Lord, and this control is executed for our own good. So, calling puppet may not be a right word, I dont have exact word to describe this situation, but definitely not a total puppet.. puppets cannot make a choice, but we do . Thanks Aradhana. -- Brother Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Aradhna ji you are also right and very correct, actually we see things in different perspectives at gross level of our budhhi, society, nation etc what you describe, certainly we have freedom but if you see the same from cosmic point of view, its all leela. you see there are good and bad things in life, everyone know it but same time if it is interpreted from some different angle then there is nothing good or bad thanks and regards , " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit wrote: >> >yes Jigyasu I do not believe that there is nothing such as free will. > There is so much freedom I think its wrong to say that God is making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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