Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Farah's post raised an important question about Karma. If we forgive our tormentors, are they free from getting result of their bad karma ? if not then what is the use of forgiving them? Please reply to this because many days I had been thinking over this and now the question Ansuya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: If we forgive > our tormentors, are they free from getting result of their bad karma ? I think a few days before, i wrote on this. We actually do not forgive the tormentors, we forgive ourselves. The tormentors can not escape the result of their bad karma, but you yourself wrote to Farah... the forgiver breaks the chain of karma, Because we are no one to change others' karma...but by forgiving we make changes to our own karmic cycle. Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 This is so true. Our individuality given to us, by our choice, is designed in such a way that our curse is our blessing and our blessing is our curse. This s the process of ending our own chain and this can be accomplished when we completely burn desires. Even the Sukshma Desires. All my energy, at his service, My lord, the one who shows mercy on me, the one whom i actually care about and the only one, who really bothers me. HE is my soul, my life,... by breathe.. my life, my energy.. my color.. my body.. my intelligence and my ego. He is my pride and he is my trust. He is the supreme sacrificer, and he is the one without any desires, he is the one who has no enemies or friends, He is truth himself, and he is both the manifested and unmanifested worlds. With my folded hands, i want to give up all desires and i want to accept whatever he wills, and i want to just act according to his guidance and instructions. I donno i am writing so much and i ams till not satisfied, i want to write more and more about him... he is my Hari, my Saviour, my protector, he pervades me, and always covers me form all harm.. he is my beloved lord, he is my essence and he is my smell... i am not finding anything sightful these days.. Even the best of girls are not able to attract me.. i somethimes feel i am losing my masculine nature by my mind.. even the biggest of posts doesn't seem worthy to me.. i donno what is happening to me.. i am totally lost in him.. i am not finding my office interesting.. i am not finding any place without his marks and stories here and there interesting.. neither i feel homely in my home nor i feel homely anywhere outside.. i have become restless and i am on a search of something whcih i am not able to comprehend nor i am able to interpret, neither i am able to assimilate. may be i am in search of Hari. -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , ansuya80 <no_reply@> wrote: > If we forgive > > our tormentors, are they free from getting result of their bad > karma ? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: Dear Aum I disagree with you about forgiveness. If I forgive someone I am forgiving them, not myself. I am releasing the tie that we have & am letting it go. I am giving up on trying to wish or hope things could have been different. I am accepting that it is as it is. I am being thankful for the lesson & letting it be. I am taking my learning & spiritual growth & moving on... rather than spending years feeling anger & hatred towards a situation that I cannot change because it is in the past. I must clarify that this does not mean I am saying 'it was ok' or 'it was right' - I am just accepting that it is, as it is & I cant change that. As for karma, dear Ansuya... that is out of my hands & this is where I do agree with Aum. I believe if someone has attracted bad karma, then they cannot escape from that. Maybe if they are sorry, or if I forgive them, then it may be lessened, Im not sure, but they cannot escape it completely. Someone on Answers put it to me beautifully once (Deito my brother, was it you?) He said that karma is like cutting your wrists & hoping you wont bleed. So you just have to bleed. With love Farah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , " janfarah_strongspirit " <janfarah_strongspirit wrote: > > , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba@> wrote: > > Dear Aum > > I disagree with you about forgiveness. If I forgive someone I am > forgiving them, not myself. I am releasing the tie that we have & am > letting it go. I am giving up on trying to wish or hope things could > have been different. I am accepting that it is as it is. I am being > thankful for the lesson & letting it be. I am taking my learning & > spiritual growth & moving on... rather than spending years feeling > anger & hatred towards a situation that I cannot change because it is > in the past. I must clarify that this does not mean I am saying 'it was Dear Farah, you said you dont accept that we forgive ourselves...and in next sentences everywhere you wrote what you would do by forgiving like relieasing ties, letting go, accepting being thankful.... all these prove that we actualy release our own chains not theirs....this is what i called forgiving ourselves. When we forgive someone, we do not actually forgive him for his bad karma.... we actually lose our own ties with those bad karma...we break the chain of karma binding us with the tyranny... and by forgiving we release the subtle energy of hate with the tyrannt. This phenomenon of releasing ourselves... is what I called forgiving ourselves. We forgive ourselves for making the ties and release them...we forgive ourselves for the hate and change it to love. If you read carefully, we both are saying the same thing with different words.. what do you think ? with love Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Humble Obeisances to all! Karma- karma affects or gives result to the door or initiator only. It has no meaning whether tormentation or by way of help it is directed to someone else. The person towards whom that particular karma is aimed at may be affected adversely or positively as per the intention of the original door, as any bullet hits the target that's all. But the original door has to bear the good or bad outcome of his intention, without fail and he can not escape. God will help the affected person, as per his eligibility, but the original door will be severely punished, in any wayfor his bad intention, by the Saviour of the Universe, as the door has encroached His right of Punishment(Administration). Though we forgive somebody for any reason, it is always on behalf of the Savour only, as we have no right. Though we help somebody, we do so on His behalf, as we have no independent existence except Him and we are helping in such way as our right hand helps left to complete action. Just think, while chewing / crushing something in mouth, if the togue is affected, can we punish the teeth? So when the right hand puts Tilakam on forehead, is it necesssry for the forehead to thank the right hand? No doubt, we have to punish or bann tormentors to protect ourselves from any type of harm. In that case we should not bear in mind an intention of 'vindication' or 'contempt'. Better to keep ourselves sufficiently away from such elements by all means. ansuya80 <no_reply > wrote: Farah's post raised an important question about Karma. If we forgive our tormentors, are they free from getting result of their bad karma ? if not then what is the use of forgiving them? Please reply to this because many days I had been thinking over this and now the question Ansuya Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > This phenomenon of releasing ourselves... is what I called forgiving > ourselves. We forgive ourselves for making the ties and release > them...we forgive ourselves for the hate and change it to love. > > If you read carefully, we both are saying the same thing with > different words.. what do you think ? > > with love > > Aum > Dearest Aum When I sent my last message I was wondering what you had said in your previous post about forgiveness, as I had not read it. I offer you many thanks for sharing your thoughts on this again - yes, we are definitely saying the same thing in a slightly different way, I can see that now. Forgiveness is definitely about cutting those ties of hatred & releasing both them and ourselves - what a lovely way to put it. If we allow those ties to remain, we keep it alive, like an invisible umbilical cord feeding a growing foetus, we keep it nourished & allow it to flourish. Once the cord is cut, it dies. Then karma will deal with the rest & we need not give it another thought. With much love & thanks Farah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , keshav daund <keshav_daund wrote: forgive somebody for any reason, it is always on behalf of the Savour only, as we have no right. ------- Thanks Keshav ji, you confirmed what Deito once wrote too. In fact forgiving is a funny word...and as i wrote to Farha, we never forgive others but forgive ourselves. In most of the cases, forgiving is ego, or compulsions or weakness or cowardice. You are very right....it is only God who has a right to forgive. But does god really forgive our Bad Karma ? I think he encourages us to face the results of our bad karma and be pure. Noble proze winner poet Tagore in Gitanjali writes. O God dont help me when i am drowning give me strength to swim out myself I would love to listen further on this With resepcts AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Revered AUM, Humble Obeisances! Your conception is totally corect. God encourages to face the results. You cited very appropriate quote of Rev. Rabindranath Tagore. Asking even the Saviour to save, beg for strength and be able to save oneself. This is the law of nature. Nature doesn't interfere in any process on physical level. But the one who intensely begs for strength, comes out of difficulties at his own strongwill and efforts gifted by nature. It is all done from within. Hence is is stated that the God is within every physique, irrespective of physical ability of that physique. In certain circumstances, the weakest of the weak rises up in such a strength that the strongest of the strong has to put down his knees before him. And this is all due to strong will and help of the God within. There is one discussion current womewhere I have read 'Dharmo Rakshati Rakshita: " meaning Dharma protects tho who protect Dharma. Is it physically experienced? No!. The one who is on right path of Dharma (an aobligation to maintain social system properly and peacefully), who regards and revers every entity in the society is automatically protected by that social system in the interest of all. Dharma is no somebody who will rush when his members are in danger. The voice within will give the members such a strength thal all will strongly protest against probable/ensuing danger. This intuition from within is responsible for our protection by ourselves and because of our innver strong intentions, we are able to keep ourselves away from bad elements / tormentors. When we think and talk about 'introspection' it is this process where we have to recharge and rebuild our inneer powers and eliminating the garbage of lust and passions trying to molest them. Once 'within' is made powerful and crystal clear, 'outside' is easily cleansed simply by eye-sight which we say 'simple glimpse of my God/Guru will save me'. We have to inculcate and promote this 'introspection' instead of discussing or comparing with some other religions. We are no authority to take up comparataive or comprehensive study. Whatever is supporting, just pick up and make our members to study and follow so as to benefit individual Sadhana. May be I am out of place, I beg your pardon. Heartful regards. Keshav. Aum <beirut_ka_baba wrote: --- In Thanks Keshav ji, you confirmed what Deito once wrote too. In fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 , keshav daund <keshav_daund wrote: > > Revered AUM, Humble Obeisances! Your conception is totally corect. Thanks Keshavji, for further expanding the subject. As shanracer wrote in one of his post there are many spiritual Myths going on. ..Like love changes people, or world is as you are, or we should not fight, Lovy thy enemy etc....and these are parts of Drawing Room Spirituality, not the real one. We are in a Karma Bhoomi. If god does not want us to suffer...who can give us pains ? In Mahabharat, the Pandavas were friends of Krishna. Krishna did not remove their sufferings.... he allowed them to suffer and purify themselves. Krishna's beloved Sakhi Draupadi was insulted in the court. Can so near Bhakta of God be insulted ???? Krishna allowed that too... not to belittle Draupadi...but to purify her of her sins and to lay foundation for the big destruction of cruel and idiot kings. That is why a Bhakta should not question God and accept what ever pains and sufferings he is giving as part of his Prashad. AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 > (Deito my brother, was it you?) He said that karma is like cutting > your wrists & hoping you wont bleed. So you just have to bleed. No Farah, not me, but the explanation is very correct and i agree. Srry for late response, i did not notice this and got skipped. Your Brother, - Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , " janfarah_strongspirit " <janfarah_strongspirit wrote: > > , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba@> wrote: > > completely. Someone on Answers put it to me beautifully once > (Deito my brother, was it you?) He said that karma is like cutting your > wrists & hoping you wont bleed. So you just have to bleed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 , deito01 <no_reply wrote: > > Srry for late response, i did not notice this and got skipped. > > Your Brother, > > - Deito > > Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. > > > Dear brother no worries at all - reply when you can, in your own time, its good to hear from you any time at all. With love Farah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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