Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Dear Deito & Bala, Even Lord Krishna said in gita that those who worship the formless and attributeless god progress with great difficulties...and for human beings it is extremely difficult (gita 12/5) Advaita may be the highest truth, but anyone starting Advaita as begining never really reaches the destination. The one who has established himself well in Dwaita first is entitled to go beyond Dwaita. Shri Paramhansa, when established well in god as Kali, was taught to transcend Kali too and reach the Advaita state. And I differ here a little with those who say Bhakti is easy. I must say Bhakti is more difficult than other paths. Bhakti does not just mean worshipping the god as krishna or shiva or shakti ...or loving the idol of deity....Bhakti is complete surrender to the god, leaving all our insults, all our joys, all our pains, all our suffereings and all our deeds to the feet of God....and in Kaliyuga this is the most difficult job. Shri Kabir thus said Kami Krodhi Lalachi... Inse Bhakti na hoye Bhakti karey koi soorma.... Jati, Baran, Kul Khoye A common man with lust, anger and greed can not become Bhakta...As Bhakti is path of the bravest who are ready to renounce thier caste, creed, and families. What are you views on this ?? AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 You are right Aum, my Borther, Bakthi or Surrender is Difficult, But don't you think it is the easiest way out. its like The exercise is difficult to perform, but that is the exercise gives you the healthy body fastest. Its like The medicine is bitter and difficult to swallow, but it is the same medicine which cane cure us fastest. So the medicine is the easiest way out, but yes taking it may be difficult. Hope i am able to tell what exactly i intended to, usually, i fail to explain what i want to, in a lucid manner, Please forgive my inability. --Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Deitoji, this time you confused me! you accept bhakti is difficult and in the same sentence you say it is the easiest way out ! This is a self contradicting statement. What do you mean actually by this ? Ansuya , deito01 <no_reply wrote: > > > You are right Aum, my Borther, Bakthi or Surrender is Difficult, But > don't you think it is the easiest way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Dear Ansuya, I explained with so many examples, and still i felt people may get confused, and it so happens that my expectation came true. Bakthi is difficult, but Being Baktha is the easiest way for Moksha. Bakthi is like the bitter medicine you take to cure your disease. It is very bitter and hance very difficult to take. But the same bitter medicine cures your disease the easiest and fastest. If this medicine, which is difficult to take, is taken, though it is difficult to take, than you get cures of your diseases easily. In other words, This medicine ( Bakthi ) is the easiest way of curing the disease. But what Aum said was : This medicine ( Bakthi ) is difficult to take. ( means difficult to surrender, but it is the easiest way to attain moksha ) Am i able to tell you what i intended, or still i am confusing you Ansuya. I think i am not good at explaining things, and most of the time keep confusing you all.. lol.. but i am trying my best to be as clear and lucid as possible. -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , ansuya80 <no_reply wrote: > > Deitoji, this time you confused me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Dear Deito... May be you are made in such a way that you can " believe " scriptures.... May be some of us are made in such a way that the " experience " of truth is way better... It is the difference in believeing that laddu is sweet and actually eating it....may be when you actually eat it you might not like it!!! Bhakthi is a great path. but as Babaji says... It is very difficult... I am yet to see a 100% bhaktha... Surrendering to the lord... is the most difficult thing to do....You have to put away your gross ego completely and I have not seen that happen.... Most scriptures are biased towards one form of the lord...simply because... Bhakthi has a pitfall.. that is there is a chance to become a fanatic.... I believe that truth is too vast to be contained in one scripture or even in all the books in the universe.... Experience on the other hand gives you a chance to transcend the mind and allows one a glimpse into the ultimate reality... In my opinion.. every bhaktha.. if he has to reach the ultimate has to transcend his ishta devata... Ramakrishna paramahamsa also learnt that during the last stages of his sadhna... I dont accept with some versions of the scriptures that say one deity is supreme and others are lower... That kind of division is impossible... If there is God It is one and it is all... Actually such petty divisions are childish and shows the immaturity of the Bhaktha...Exactly the pitfall I have described. The world has seen many gnanis and yogis as well as Bhakthas... The true bhaktha sees his lord in all beings.. where is the question of division..?? he then reaches advaita... In my opinion.. Advaita is the end result of dwaita... Love Bala... On 9/15/07, deito01 <no_reply > wrote: > > > You are right Aum, my Borther, Bakthi or Surrender is Difficult, But Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Thanks Bala, souls at different levels of enlightenment dwell in different states. And this is also acceptable, as each step is unique. And as you told, we stand on different steps. but i am happy, at last we will reach the same place. and we have the same aim of realizing the truth. Just a line on divisions, We are not dividing deities into less powerful and more powerful. We are showing a Tree, where there is only one god and for management of the manifest, Many officers are appointed, who are all in fact derived form the same. Lord bless in your Endevours, -- Deito Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > > Dear Deito... > > May be you are made in such a way that you can " believe " scriptures.... May > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > > Dear Deito... > > May be you are made in such a way that you can " believe " scriptures.... May > In my opinion.. Advaita is the end result of dwaita... > Shri Bala ji ever since I have come here- it has been hardly 15 days people keep criticising bhaktas as fanatical, not accepting other dieties, foolish, not able to understand parmatma feature and what not!! Please for God sake just because of a few immature things you have read here and there and heard from people misguided by bogus Gurus dont make strong generalisation. I live in India and here the Sanatan Dharmis know thier religion very well. They fast during janmashtmi, navratras, Shivratri, Ekadashi and so on.Such people are in lakhs and crores. Just because of a handful of fake people who are misrepresenting Hinduism you cant blame all bhaktas as immature, fanatical , foolish. This is not the way. This is kaliyuga. a TIME WHERE its extremely difficult to see any person who is actually spiritual and doesnt only pretend or claim to be spiritual. Time and again you people keep saying bhaktas are fanatical. Those who are fanatical are not bhaktas whether they are Vaishnavas, Shaivs, Christians or any other. These generalisations are an outcome of narrow vision and prejudice Aradhana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 , " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit wrote: > Shri Bala ji ever since I have come here- it has been hardly 15 > days people keep criticising bhaktas as fanatical, not accepting Dear Aradhana, this is not fault of Bala or Shanracer.... the Bhaktas we see around, are more interested in rejecting others than doing Bhakti... I am sorry to say, even though i am also a Bhakta, but 99% of Bhaktas are imprisoned in a circle of their deity, and anything outside their circle is False, as per them Even a great Bhakta like Tulsidas, refused to bow before the statue of Krishna, saying he only bows before Rama, with arrow...since he was a great Bhakta, the statue changed to Rama with bow and arrow.The Bhakta who thinks, his deity is supreme...is not a Bhakta. As Bala and deito agreed, a real Bhakta sees the whole universe as his deity... Now a days Krishana Bhakta say Krishna is supreme Shiva Bhakta say Shiv is supreme...and so by Ganesh, shakti and Hanuman Bhaktas. They are not Bhaktas...they are petty students of Bhakti.... The real Bhakta sees his god in all...even in a sinner, an animal and a bird....but do we see such Bhaktas around??? The fault is not with Bhakti...but with the Bhaktas.... The ignorant students. AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 , deito01 <no_reply wrote: > souls at different levels of enlightenment dwell in different states. Aren't we already at the same stage and our own manifestations are discussing these things in Sadhna group? We are all one at one level...and acting different at lower levels.. What do u think??? AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Dear Aum, We may be at the same level, Meaning that we are all upto one job, And employees of the same team. Also what we have to do may be same, Meaning, we all are working for the success of the same project. But our nature and hence the corresponding way we follow is different. Meaning the tools we use may be different, for example one may use automated system to get the product finished, one may better prefer to Do every part and etch by hand and one may think of buying a ready one from market instead of doing one and hence saving time. So depending on this one person may be in the market searchign for a ready product, one one may be In front of the automated machien to learn how to use it, and one may be buzy starting from scratch as he has to etch everything by hand. So, see we are all in same human life, and we all have the same motto, and we are all also in the same group for a common goal, of enlightenment, but The way we approach is different and based on this difference we stand at different locations with different properties and beliefs. Please let me know if i am being wrong somewhere or missing something Aum. It will be helpful to correct myself. -- Deito Aumn svasti no govindah svasti no 'cyutanantau svasti no vasudvo vishnur dadhatu svasti no narayano naro vai svasti nah padmanabhaha puroshottamo dadhatu svasti no vishvakseno vishveshvaraha svasti no hrishikesho harir dadhatu svasti no vainateyo harih svasti no 'njana-suto hanur bhagavato dadhatu svasti svasti sumangalaih kesho mahan shri-krishnaha sac-cid-ananda-ghanaha sarveshvareshvaro dadhatu " May Lord Govinda, Acyuta, Ananta Shesha, Vasudeva and Lord Vishnu bestow auspiciousness upon us. May Nara-Narayana, Padmanabha and Purushottama bestow auspiciousness upon us. May Vishvaksena, the Lord of the universe, Hrishikesh and Lord Hari bestow auspiciousness upon us. May Garuda and the son of Anjana, who is the great devotee of Lord Rama, Hanuman - The devotee incarnation of Shiva, who is a pinnacle of devotion of Hari, bestow auspiciousness upon us. May the great and only Lord of auspiciousness, Sri Krishna, who is like a transcendental cloud full of eternity, knowledge and bliss and who is the Lord of all the demigods and who is the owner of everything, bestow upon us all prosperity and auspiciousness. Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam. , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > > , deito01 <no_reply@> wrote: > > > souls at different levels of enlightenment dwell in different states. > > > Aren't we already at the same stage and our own manifestations are > discussing these things in Sadhna group? > > We are all one at one level...and acting different at lower levels.. > > What do u think??? > > AUM > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 , deito01 <no_reply wrote: > > > Dear Aum, > Please let me know if i am being wrong somewhere or missing something No dear from my viewpoint, there is nothing wrong anywhere, neither you nor anyone else. Each one of us perceives the Truth in our own way, depending upon our mental evolution, environment and karmic debt.. None of us know the Absolute Truth, as only Absolute Consc. knows the absolute truth. Contradicting, agruments and correction are an important part of sadhna. If the System has put us in a situtation we are being contradicted....means we have to re-check or re-confirm our belief... or to listen to others' views with open mind And I think we all are doing that here....nicely AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Humble Obeisances ! Gurudev, we are certainly on one stage, but our wings are weak and you are the power generator to bring up us. Heartful regards. Keshav. Aum <beirut_ka_baba wrote: , deito01 <no_reply wrote: > souls at different levels of enlightenment dwell in different states. Aren't we already at the same stage and our own manifestations are discussing these things in Sadhna group? We are all one at one level...and acting different at lower levels.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 > Dear Aradhana, this is not fault of Bala or Shanracer.. > > Even a great Bhakta like Tulsidas, refused to bow before the statue > of Krishna, saying he only bows before Rama, with arrow...since he > was a great Bhakta, the statue changed to Rama with bow and > arrow.The Bhakta who thinks, his deity is supreme...is not a > Bhakta. > >I dont agree with this. Of all the bhaktas I have met and seen in my life only a very few are fanatical and that too those who have been misguided by some schools and books. So I refuse to these arguements that bhaktas are fanatical. Only you people have seen all fanatical bhaktas why havent I? hOW CAN YOU SAY BABA THAT TULSIDAS REFUSED BECAUSE HE CONSIDERED RAMA AND KRISHNA TO BE DIFFERENT? A DEVOTEE LIKE HIM CAN NEVER HAVE CONSIDERED THEM TO BE DIFFERENT. PERHAPS IT WAS ONLY THAT PEOPLE CALL KRISHNA SUPERIOR SO HE SAID THIS TO MAKE THE POINT THAT ALL MANIFESTATIONS OF GOD ARE ONE AND THE SAME.MAYBE THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE TOO WHO THINK THEY ARE VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND SAY THAT THIS AVTAARA IS SUPERIOR TO THAT AVTAARA BECAUSE OF THESE REASONS. I DONT BELIEVE IN THIS. EACH AVTAARA IS GREATEST AND UNIQUE. RAMA'S AVTAARA DIDNT DO WHAT KRISHNA DID AND KRISHNA'S AVTAARA DIDNT DO WHAT RAMA DID. AND BOTH RAMA AND KRISHNA ARE ONE AND THE SAME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > > > souls at different levels of enlightenment dwell in different states. > Aren't we already at the same stage and our own manifestations are > discussing these things in Sadhna group? > > We are all one at one level...and acting different at lower levels.. > > What do u think??? > > AUM >Yes baba you are right being a gyaani only you could have said such a sweet and beautiful thing but baba to me a person who is spiritually ahead ie superior in terms of spirituality is to be respected and reverred. So in my eyes all the sadhaks are my Lord's loved children who are great in every respect.it would not be wrong or foolish to say that taking the dust of Bhaktas feet is also Lord's worship. How can an ordinary person say that he is equal to a devotee or gyaani. Lord Krishna says- " I am dear to the gyaanis and the gyaanis are very dear to me " regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 , " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit wrote: > hOW CAN YOU SAY BABA THAT TULSIDAS REFUSED BECAUSE HE CONSIDERED RAMA > AND KRISHNA TO BE DIFFERENT? A DEVOTEE LIKE HIM CAN NEVER HAVE I am not saying anything abt Tulsidas.. this is what history says... but your way of re-explaining is good.. I like it. Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Dearest Aradna.. I never meant to say all Bhakthas are fanatical... If I can across that way I apologize... A Bhaktha is verily the lord himself... I was saying that a pitfall in bhakthi is fanatism... just like ego and haughtiness...is a pitfall of gnana.... Love Bala... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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