Guest guest Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I too agree.. The world is a dual place... it's very fiber is duality... without the poles.. the universe will just collapse.. So there is evil in this world and there has to be... There is no other way.... If you want GOOD.. then you will have to accept evil.... If you want light.. You will have to accept darkness.. If you want Moksha... Liberation.. then you will have to accept bondage... As humans... We have to put up with evil...because we want goodness... Now to the other side of the coin.... If you don't want goodness... You will also not see evil.... (as far as we are concerned).. (we cannot change the world.. we can only change ourselves and at the most inspire others to change.) If you are indifferent to both light and darkness, you transcend the polarities of life and merge with the ONE.... Your consciousness....Then there is no evil.. but there is no Good too... A muktha... is good not because he wants to be good, but because he sees himself in everyone.... he does to others as he does unto himself.....he has lost the polarity.... Let us see what being good is.... We see small puppy on the road and then we feel it will die without our help..... We want to be good... so we take it and leave it at an animal shelter.... This is action expecting the benefit... (the benefit being the feeling of a good person)... Take a mother... if she sees her baby in the middle of the road... she will pick up the baby (of course, even at the cost of her own life if need be) and take the baby home with her. she doesn't feel she has done a good deed... She has acted out of pure love.... Without the feeling of a division.. without a feeling of having done good... This is transcending duality... it comes naturally between a mother and her child... but if we become the consciousness.. then.... every thing is us.. every body is us... no division.....no good no evil.. just pure Love and may be beyond love just pure is..ness..... Love Bala... On 9/7/07, janfarah_strongspirit <janfarah_strongspirit wrote: > > > " There is no evil in the world - it is either truth in the making, or > truth in the breaking. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 , " janfarah_strongspirit " <janfarah_strongspirit wrote: > > Dear Saadhakas > Brothers & sisters > > Someone very wise made a comment to me recently & Im still not entirely > sure what he meant by it... > > " There is no evil in the world - it is either truth in the making, or > truth in the breaking. " > > Dear Farah, I also agree with this. Bala ji has explained it very beautifully. I cant speak my thoughts even half as well. I understand why you say that there is so much " evil " in this world. One day a wise person who I know tried to explain the same thing because perhaps he wanted to tell me why we shouldnt condemn or even judge anything or anyone. He was unable to make me understand it so he introduced me to an acharya who explained it very nicely and I liked it so much that I even tried to practice it but you see hearing or reading alone never helps, perhaps to practice you have to experience or understand. Very soon I felt , experienced and reflected upon it and only then I really understood what it means.Maybe I still dont understand it fully. The evil and the good as they are called have a beautiful relationship. The good or truth is independent in itself yet its in the presence of the evil and because that it shines in all its glory and beauty. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > > ... but if we become the consciousness.. then.... every thing is us.. > every body is us... no division.....no good no evil.. just pure Love and may > be beyond love just pure is..ness..... > > Love > > Bala... > > Dear Bala I can see most of what you are explaining & also what Aradhana is saying too, but Im still confused. Are you saying a person can get to the stage where they " see " evil... ie, are faced with " evil " & yet not " see " it as " evil " any more, because they have become pure consciousness? Is this really possible? How can someone not see evil? Are you able to do this, or do you know anyone who can? Or maybe like Aradhana said, reading about it & chatting about it is on one level, but maybe I really need to EXPERIENCE this... ? This all feels very confusing to me. With love Farah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 > " There is no evil in the world - it is either truth in the making, >or truth in the breaking. " This is a quote from Sri Aurobindo, whom many people including David Frawley(a noted Vedic scholar & author), have called the Spriritual Father of India. What Aurobindo was trying to say was, there is no philosophy/truth/religon that is false, but neither is any 100% pure truth. All philsophies/religons are either moving towards the Truth, or they once had the Truth & are now moving away from it, but none are wrong or false. Evil is a very bad word, like superstition, which is used as an insult for those one doesnt agree with. What is evil? Killing, stealing? We have titled a bunch of actions that doesnt please us evil. Added to the fact we look from a very narrow viewpoint- we cant see the Universal plan behind everything. A man kills another, we call him evil. But maybe the murdered man had a spiritual lesson to learn- maybe he had killed others, & he had to learn the pain felt? In that case the murderer was doing Gods job! You might say Hitler was evil- but without Hitler, countries like India would never have gotten independence. Also, before Hitler, there was so much tension in Europe, Kings went to war at the drop of a hat. After Hitler, Europe is the most peaceful place on Earth. Its people are calm, relaxed. Hitler was implementing the Divine plan, as much as Gandhi was, as much as Laden is today. I think Laden is an Angel for Hindus. Earlier, when terrorists attacked India, US said, " Talk to them! " Now when USA was attacked, now we have Wars on Terror, invasions here & there. If Islam has an enemy, its Laden, not Bush. People do bad actions, but they are due to ignorance- because they are not aware of their true Nature. A man kills a whole family, we say how evil he is! Yet everyday we cut down trees, destroy forests- the families of 1000s of birds, animals die. They proably cry & ask " What have we done to deserve this, what have we done to you! " But we in our ignorance dont listen. We cannot claim we didnt know that creatures were suffering, for Aurobindo said another beatuiful thing " Nature punishes ignorance more than any sin " . The evil we see, the bad Karma, is due to ignorance of our True Self.If we were aware of it, we would never cause harm to any living being, including humans. We would never do anything that opposed the Divine Plan, so there would be no nees for Nature to oppose us, or to trouble us. As saints from Buddha to Vivekanand have said, the only way to help others is to 1st help yourself. Only an enlightened Man can offer any hope to the suffering, not those who are stuck in Maya themselves. Thats why Aurobindo said there is Truth in Making or truth in breaking. People, religons, philosophies are either moving towards Truth, or away from it. Those that are moving away from it can expect reactions that could be described as evil or painful, but are better described as helpful nudges from Mother Nature on to the right path. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > > A man kills another, we call him evil. But maybe the murdered man had > a spiritual lesson to learn- maybe he had killed others, & he had to > learn the pain felt? In that case the murderer was doing Gods job! > > You might say Hitler was evil- but without Hitler, countries like > India would never have gotten independence. Also, before Hitler, there > was so much tension in Europe, Kings went to war at the drop of a hat. Dear Shantnu Thankyou for this, its a real help. Is this why my spiritual teachers are always telling me to be the detatched observer & just see it all as the 'drama?' Are you able to do that? Can you watch the news & listen to accounts of murder & child abduction & step back & see it as simply the divine plan? I really wish I could do this, it would be a step forward for me if I could. I haven't watched the news for almost 2 years because its so depressing. It will take me a while for me to digest this. I'll print it out & read it every day... along with many others printed from this site... Thankyou With love Farah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 , " janfarah_strongspirit " <janfarah_strongspirit wrote: > > , shanracer <no_reply@> wrote: Dear Farah, Shantnu has so beautifully explained the quote, leaving little chance to add...still i would like to say that if we understand the definition of sin we will be in better position to understand this point of view. Definition of Sin used by religions is not a true definition of sin. Each culture has their own definition of sin. In Islam drinking alcohol is sin, for others it is not, for sikhs smoking is a sin for others it is not. so sin cant be a thing depending upon a particular religion/faith. As per highest hindu philosophy, there is no sin !!! what we see as sin is either cultural differences, disease, ignorance or misapplication. The concept of sin and evil is a transitory phase coined by human mind...and it is necessary too, to tame the animal still lurking inside us. In lower nature and in higher nature and god, there is no concept of evil or sin. A lion kills small kid of a deer. for mother deer, lion is evil, but for lion's cubs, he is god who is providing them with food. As a third party observer we wouldnt see lion as evil, but call it natural. Similarly the higher natural forces have no conept of sin or morals. When Tsunami comes, it kills all be it a theif or a saint. Natural calamities do not differentiate among us and creat havoc for all equally. Will we call it evil? As shan wrote, everything is truth in the world..some going towards truth, some going away from it. If God is Truth and is not evil...how can be create something which is not his nature ? It is our mind which percieves evil and virtuous...and that too is necessary to know also as per divine plan otherwise the world would be chaotic. But becoming spiritual does not mean we become emotionless stones. Of course many people think that a spiritual person is unmoved by calamities and do not cry. This is partially true, as an advanced spiritual may cry or be angry on a loss, but from outside only. Inside he may remain calm. In most of the cases spiritual advancement makes us more sensitive than others. In my own example, till I was not on spiritual path I was very practical person. I was stronger emotionally and would see things in a practical way. Accidents, wars did not affect me much. After years of meditation, i felt a big change in my emotional set-up. There was a school-bus accident in which many little children died. I remember i cried a lot seeing dead bodies on TV and could not eat....which i could not have done before meditations. Unattached does not mean we become a stone, and be insensitive to other's grief. Rather i would say a spiritual person feels more grief of others than a common man. Knowing inside the divine plan, let the body do its Dharma. We can not refuse help to an orphan saying - Yes you are suffering due to your karma. A spiritual person will know he is suffering due to karma, but will help the orphan, as his duty as god wants, not to satisfy his ego. Contrary to popular belief, I have seen enlightened souls, shouting in anger, or crying or worrying...but it is their surface personality which follows its dharma and they are very calm inside and know the very purpose of their anger or tears...they use them as tools not as chains to bind. we can continue sharing on this.. Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 , " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > > , " janfarah_strongspirit " > <janfarah_strongspirit@> wrote: > > > > , shanracer <no_reply@> wrote: > > Dear Farah, Shantnu has so beautifully explained the quote, > leaving little chance to add...still i would like to say that if we > understand the definition of sin we will be in better position to > understand this point of view. > > Dear Aum I still find it impossible to watch the madness on the news because of the feelings it stirs up in me. Lions killing for food, or natural disasters I can accept, but murders, attacks & abuse are unbearable to listen to. But thankyou for this... I'll give it some thought & attention over the next few days. With love Farah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 , " janfarah_strongspirit " <janfarah_strongspirit wrote: > I still find it impossible to watch the madness on the news because > of the feelings it stirs up in me. Lions killing for food, or Dear Farah, I very much understand what you wish to say. As I wrote, becoming spiritual does not mean becoming an emotionless stone...rather a spiritual person becomes more sensitive to other's pains. But what can we do ? Can we remove the sufferings from the world ? We are not even capable of removing our own sufferings..what to talk of others. the best way is to pray god to remove their sufferings...it may not remove their sufferings..but it will certainly create some positive energies. Wherefore God hammers so fiercely at his world, tramples and kneads it like dough, casts it so often into the blood bath and the red hell heat of the furnace?? Because humanity in the mass is still a hard, crude and vile ore which will not otherwise be smelted and shaped; as is his material, so is his method. Let it help to transmute itself into nobler and purer metal, his ways with it will be gentler and sweeter, much loftier and fairer its use. AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Here I would like to add - Watching the scenes like killing lions for food is voluntary one. We should not watch such sites which disturb our emotions and mental harmoney. Actually, hunting is their right and obligatory duty to earn food. If lions and tigers sit quitely at some place, none will feed them and none of the others animals will voluntarity approach them to become their food. When we have to compete to get something over others, it is also a killing (emotions and aspirations of others for the same purpose). Such things should not be any reason for deviation of mental tranquility. For this purpose only, it is very important to get understood the 'Sakshi Bhava' process being discussed. I humbly request the Elders to illustrate this quite elaborately and authoritatively. In the past I have tried to explain something, but I am not satified with it fully. Some deeper illustration is expected. As mastery over this is one of the prime conditions for advancement in sadhana, every one should get its proper understanding and practice. With heartful regards. Keshav. > , " janfarah_strongspirit " > <janfarah_strongspirit@> wrote: > > I still find it impossible to watch the madness on the news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Farahji, like Babaji said, we are not to become stones, but neither should we let anyone manipulate us & make us swing like an emotional yo-yo, which is what most newspapers & channels do. To sell their papers/channels, they delibrately spice up their stories, choose the worst stories to tell, & sometimes make up stuff! Sadhaks are recommended no to read newspapers, watch news channels etc. Also avoid soap serials, as they too try to manipulate our emotions. If you cant live without news, try reading sober papers like Financial Times(they cover normal stories too), & not tabloids. This is not for whole life- like when a plant is young, we have to put fences around it to protect it from birds/animals eating it. Later on, the tree becomes so strong the same birds/animals take shelter in it. Similarly, a Sadhak has to be protected till he/she is spiritually mature- which might be either they are purely in Saksh Bhaav, or that they have understood the Divine Plan, & can see Gods hand directly in all actions. Then they will understand the reason for suffering & be no longer affected by it. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 , " keshav_daund " <keshav_daund wrote: Keshav ji Pranam Sakshi Bhava does not come overnite..and we have to work hard. More over this is Kaliyuga and we are disturbed by all the energies around. This is what Kaliyuga told Parikshit...that it is possible to get enlightenment in 24 hours in Kaliyuga, but it will not give 24 hours of tranquility to anyone. Yes your suggestion is great. We can utilise our spare hours in sadhna. For 8 hours of sleep best is Yoga Nidra (i wrote abt it last month). By Yoga nidra we can use sleeping hours in meditation and it gives wonderful results, besides keeping us relieved from day tensions. Breathing exercises during driving and walking are not adviseable. But one thing is very useful..i tried it here and found working wonders... when we walk, just have a mantra and inhale and exhale the mantra... i used shiva while inhaling and shakti while exhaling... it kept me concentrated on walk but also continued mantra during walking. AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Babaji... Lovely Answer... I was trying another thing too... try NOT to be in Sakshi Bhava... Simple... You reject it... Make sure you do not watch your actions... ) Try this and you will enter Sakshi Bhava much more easily... What you watch is irrelevent.... Just watching commences the MIRACLE... (I say commences because it can only start... it has no end) Love Bala... On 9/8/07, Aum <beirut_ka_baba wrote: > > <%40>, > " keshav_daund " <keshav_daund > wrote: > > Keshav ji Pranam > > Sakshi Bhava does not come overnite..and we have to work hard. > More over this is Kaliyuga and we are disturbed by all the energies > around. This is what Kaliyuga told Parikshit...that it is possible to > get enlightenment in 24 hours in Kaliyuga, but it will not give 24 > hours of tranquility to anyone. > > Yes your suggestion is great. We can utilise our spare hours in > sadhna. For 8 hours of sleep best is Yoga Nidra (i wrote abt it last > month). By Yoga nidra we can use sleeping hours in meditation and it > gives wonderful results, besides keeping us relieved from day tensions. > > Breathing exercises during driving and walking are not adviseable. > But one thing is very useful..i tried it here and found working > wonders... when we walk, just have a mantra and inhale and exhale the > mantra... i used shiva while inhaling and shakti while exhaling... it > kept me concentrated on walk but also continued mantra during walking. > > AUM > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Dear Shantnu I am so pleased to hear you say this. I havent watched the news for almost 2 years, I havent watched soaps in about 8 years, I have never been much of a newspaper reader & earlier this year I gave up my tv because I just dont watch it. I was feeling guilty about not watching the news, but if this is recommended then Im pleased about that. With love Farah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 > Dear Shantnu > > I am so pleased to hear you say this. I havent watched the news for Farahji, I myself once read 3 newspapers a day, watched news on TV, spent hours debating politics. Now I dont read newspapers. Due to circumstances( & help of Devi), I dont have TV, & no longer feel need of it either. I have lost all interest in politics- as I have seen all politicans are tools of Mahakaal(the Lord of Time, Shiv), & the various Shaktis that run the Universe. These Shaktis make us dance to their tune, yet we think we the doers, & foolishly get stuck in the Karmic results of actions that are actually done by Shaktis. Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Revered Aum, Humble Obeisances. I am satisfied with your advice. I will study Yoga-nidra and follow your all guidance. Thank you very much. Heartful regards. Keshav. Aum <beirut_ka_baba wrote: , " keshav_daund " <keshav_daund wrote: Keshav ji Pranam Sakshi Bhava does not come overnite..and we have to work hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 i used shiva while inhaling and shakti while exhaling... it > kept me concentrated on walk but also continued mantra during walking. > > AUM > Dear Aum, What is that you mean by you used shiva while inhaling and shakthi while exhaling?? Sarvamaatha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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