Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Morals and ethics are temporary tools fixed by the society to tame the animal in us..... and prepare us for the next higher stage of spirituality., But these morals and ethics depend upon the society, culture and nations...they are not universal. since sadhna is a universal phenomenon, i wonder if the morals and ethics fixed by one society should be bound upon all.. There must be a unversal code of morals and ethics for spirituality. What it should be ? Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 , beirut_ka_baba <no_reply wrote: > > Morals and ethics are temporary tools fixed by the society to tame the > animal in us..... and prepare us for the next higher stage of > spirituality., > namaste baba, this is a very clever question. It is certainly very important to have a code of ethics if one wishes to progress on the path of spirituality. But this moral code is not so brief and its universal ie it applies to all. For sadhaka its important to follow morality but there is no dearth of people who give sermons to others and fail to sneak a look inside thier own hearts.So morality is not to be taught or learnt but to be practiced.With a little practice its very easy to situate one's self in sattvik mode.Because one's nature and inclinations are determined by thier karma or activity.So with little practice one can develop viveka or wisdom or the ability to discern the right and the wrong. Lord Krishna describes adequately the satvik guna or karma in Bhagvat Gita. The righteous are like the hans of Maa Saraswati-they are extremely smart-they pick up the good and leave alone that which is not good for thier sadhana.So these hans' are protected from the cheaters , bogus guru's and false friends by God himself in kalyuga.As Jesus says- " seek and you shall find, ask and you shall get. " The mockers are dcieved by thier own karma but God remains alert for his true saadhaks all the time and instructs them in thier heart " Saint Tulsidas ji says a very beautiful thing- " those who are born in kaliyuga, those whose activities are like that of a crow and those who are disguised as swans; those who leave the vedmarga(right path) and follow the kumaarga (wrong path), those who are idols of deciet and vessels of kalyugas sins; those who call themselves Ram devotees and cheat others, those that are the slaves of money, lust and anger and those who pretend to hoist the flag of false dharma and those who are the burden carriers of decietful occupations; among such people in the world I am the foremost " Same for me!!! that reminds me of a very beautiful and relevant swermon of Shirdi Sain Baba which I will post sooon. :-) regards > But these morals and ethics depend upon the society, culture and > nations...they are not universal. > > since sadhna is a universal phenomenon, i wonder if the morals and > ethics fixed by one society should be bound upon all.. There must be a > unversal code of morals and ethics for spirituality. > > What it should be ? > > Hari Aum > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Morals and ethics as you have rightly said are not universal. In my opinion, rules that are forced on a person by society, parents, religion etc are temporary and lie waiting like a volcano. The moment a chance arises, the suppressed feeling come to the surface. You see so many cases of looting during riots Rapes during war The moment there is a bundh, we see people who are otherwise calm, throw stones, break open shops and steal. That is also the reason for movies with violence to be popular Sex is the most repressed emotion in our society. Generations after generations have been taught to repress sex. But sex is a natural instinct... In fact it is the most basic instinct.... What to do?? So when you repress, the energy moves in 2 ways 1. Sexual perversion 2. Explosion of sex when the mind is lying low. Both cause guilt and pain.. meditation becomes impossible. In my experience and opinion, the way is to be aware of all your actions. Every single second of it.... Being aware of your emotions... watch them..... do not fight with them...... your very non association with them will deny them the energy... One day you will be free of them.... then true morality comes about... True Brahmacharya is established.... True brahmacharya is turning the direction of the sexual energy and allowing it to flow upwards..... Sex then gets converted into Love.... Violence becomes compassion Greed becomes abundance of giving Love Bala... On 8/31/07, beirut_ka_baba <no_reply > wrote: > > Morals and ethics are temporary tools fixed by the society to tame the > animal in us..... and prepare us for the next higher stage of > spirituality., > > But these morals and ethics depend upon the society, culture and > nations...they are not universal. > > since sadhna is a universal phenomenon, i wonder if the morals and > ethics fixed by one society should be bound upon all.. There must be a > unversal code of morals and ethics for spirituality. > > What it should be ? > > Hari Aum > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 , beirut_ka_baba <no_reply wrote: > > Morals and ethics are temporary tools fixed by the society to tame the > animal in us..... and prepare us for the next higher stage of > spirituality., > WORDS OF SHIRDI SAIN BABA about truthfulness and respect for all religions are very relevant for kalyuga.He means that there can be no spiritual progress for anyone unless he or she does with fanaticism and dishonesty-: " You can not win over your enemies(greed, lust , anger etc)unless you become an honest person.The honest person believes in all religions.He does not belong to any one religion hats why I am neither a Hindu, nor a Muslim or a Christian.I am nothing except a human being. Honesty/truthfulness is the basis of humanity.The truth does not hide for long.Even if we lay the burden of Himalayas upon the truth in order to supress it it will ultimately be out.Darkness is torn apart by a thin line of light.The darkness may be deep but it can not survive before light. The light always wins over darkness.So the truth can not be hidden for long. Today there is a vast difference between that which we say and that which we do. We dont practice that which we preach.We do not speak and do that which is in our heart and upon our lips. This is not truthfulness. We give sermons to the entire world but do not sneak a look inside our own lives.If we do that we would feel ashamed of ourselves. " > But these morals and ethics depend upon the society, culture and > nations...they are not universal. > > since sadhna is a universal phenomenon, i wonder if the morals and > ethics fixed by one society should be bound upon all.. There must be a > unversal code of morals and ethics for spirituality. > > What it should be ? > > Hari Aum > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 , " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit > " You can not win over your enemies(greed, lust , anger etc)unless > you become an honest person. >.Darkness is torn > apart by a thin line of light.The darkness may be deep but it can > not survive before light. > Thanks Aradhana, These words really inspired me.... as long as we are not honest to ourselves....we can win the battle my blessings Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > In my opinion, rules that are forced on a person by society, parents, > religion etc are temporary and lie waiting like a volcano. Dear Bala, Yes you rightly said morals are forced upon us by religions and societies....that z why i said there should be a different set of ethics for spirituality, free from religions and cultures. Spiritual morality is somewhat different from the ethics which we know. A begger can be spiritually more moral than a king. A drunkard may be more spiritual than a priest !! I will present two real incidences to illustrate : Case 1: In Delhi there is a Hanuman temple whose priest was much respected in the vicinity/ He has good income from the temple and from his contacts. Once a poor man brought his daughter to him as she had boil on the thighs. The priest applied some Bhasma ( ash of a yagya) on the boil, and next day she was a little cured. (Obviously he was mixing penciline powder in the bhasma). So he asked the girl, about 14 years old to come alone after 10 in night and do special puja to get rid of boil. The poor girl came, and the priest tried to rape her. But she managed to jump out of temple wall and fell in nearby trench and fainted. The girl's parnets came and asked abt girl, but the priest told them that the girl never came to him. In the morning the girl gained consciousness and reached home. The matter went to police and the priest was arrested. But in court due to his money and contacts... he secured his freedom...and he continued in the temple and getting his respect. Case 2 : A poor vegetable vendor of our colony once came to me and told me - sir my daughter is getting married and all my relatives and friends have ditched me and I m really in a mess. I have arranged all other things, but money for the tent house i could not manage...The tent owner is known to you and if you tell him to arrange the tent, utensils etc for the marriage, i will pay him back in instalments. I felt sorry, as i also did not have much money to help but since the tent house owner was my childhood friend... i was sure i will be able to convince him. so we reached his office. There were 6/7 people sitting in the office and they were gambling and drinking. the room was full of smoke and the scene was disgusting...as they were abusing and shouting at each other. Our presence disturbed them and i reluctantly told them the story of our vendor friend. One of them shouted - hey come here...and he grabbed handful of currency notes from the heap of notes lying between them as stake for their game...and handed over that money to the vendor. I thanked him but he said - why thank me ..this is not my money.. this is nobody's money as it is now in stake... so thank god and do marriage happily. We came out and counted the money .... it was more than 15000 Rupees, far above the needs of the poor man, who had tears of gratitudes in his eyes and i wondered, if i should call these people, gamblers, or spirituallly higher than the priest ??? Hari Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Does this group have any city specific meeting spots... Where people can actually meet each other physically The energy sathsangs would do wonders for helping fellow aspirants Love Bala... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Meditators sitting in one place will compound each persons energy many hundred folds.... Any advanced meditatos who have reached some degree of blankness can be of immense help. I have noticed that in such an energy field, other beginers will benefit immensely... In fact it is also possible to transmit some higher experienes to open and willing fellow sadhaks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 , beirut_ka_baba <no_reply wrote > Thanks Aradhana, > > These words really inspired me.... as long as we are not honest to > ourselves....we can win the battle > > my blessings > > Aum >welcome and thanks baba. Bhakti strikes the evil at its roots otherwise who is free of faults and weaknesses? " ek loha puja mein raakhat , ek ghar badik paro; yeh duvidha paaras nahi jaanat, kanchan karo kharo " Like the paaras God does not look at the vices and virtues of saadhaks he bestows his mercy upon all just as the iron used in the temple and the one used by the butcher both become gold through the contact of the paaras Krishna says: " the one who praises me even if he is very sinful he will surely progress " Shirdi Sain Baba says: " even if the most wicked of persons have faith in God and his guru he will be taken to the doorstep of liberation because he understands that except his God he really has no other to call his own " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Humble Obeisances to all Sadhakas of the Group. May I say something? Morals and ethics of which we are discussing are not forced by anybody and none can do so except ignorance. They are evolved with advancement of culture and increase in number of society members. They are essential for peaceful and harmonial co-existance of all in particular society. When elders tell to do something or abide certain principal, it is for the benefit of the juniors. It is to tame the animal and demonic outbursts of emotions as well as revolting nature of the juniors so that the peace if the society is not disturbed at any cost. Many times the juniors do not obey and in such cases there may be examples of forceful actions which are very rare. For that seniors themselves should follow and abide by all the principles scrupulously then they have right to tame next generation. While doing so, if the intentions behind the principles are elaborately illustrated and the after-effects of not abiding the principles are explained, the juniors accept everything politely and gladly. Ignorance as well as autocratic nature of elders makes the juniors to revolt against principles. If we think broadly and study the intentions behind principles that keep us tightly bound in the group, we can realise and understand the foresight of of ancestors to frame such principles. The principles, when volunterily accepted, help us to advance in Sadhana with tremendous speed. When we have lost and forgotten importance of Ashramas, we have become more careless in personal as well as social life and our negligence has caused dividation of joint families as well as there is huge increase in indifferent mentality of common members of the society. Up to 25 or till the education required to start independent family life is finished, the boy/girl was to observe strict brahmacharya(absteinance). During the period he/she was trained in such way that if kept alone in the jungle, would manage to start new life without complaint. It is possible in todays era. The hostels/boarding schools can do such things nicely. But the parents are so enthusiastic and excited that they are anxiously longing for week-end or off day ane rush to meet the ward with so many alurements and gifts thereby disturbing the concentration of the student which results homesickness and negligence of studies. When the parents can not control, how the young ones will abide the discipline?. In many things, elders are responsible for deviation of younger generation. In sadhana, the strict adherence of morals and ethical discipline is well explained in Shreemad Bhagavad Gita, especially chapter 12 and 16. Wherever there are evil or demonic or revolting thoughts in mind while doing meditation, let the thoughts sway in full force. The mind will dance like anything and do anything. After some time it will exhaust and be quiet. At that particular moment ask the mind ''what did you achieve from this?'' There will be no answer. For every thought of mind go on asking such question and the mind would reply negatively. Day by day the demonic activities of mind will start reducing. In Sadhana, there should not be any justification of any evil thought, there should not be any welcome/reception of any thought, and there should be no suppression of any thought. This will help to calm down the mischievous activities of mind and it will cool down. To tame the mind in this way, we should welcome the morals and ethics open heartedly for our own benefit. and if we adhere to them the follower will watch our footprints and try to follow us scrupelously. Please pardon me if out of context and out of place. Heartful regards to all. = Keshav. Balachander Govindaraghavan <balachand wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: > > Does this group have any city specific meeting spots... unfortunately NOT... one is in Chicago, another in beirut and some in UK or India. Earlier we used to have live conference chat together, but that too stopped long ago due to time differences. Energies dont need physical contact....just thinking about someone will start a flow of positive spiritual energies love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Babaji, just 1 moral is enough-whatever helps you or others make spiritual progress is virtue, what stops you or others is sin. On this path, we have to be very Selfish- which people arent. With Selfish I mean loving the Higher Self, the Spirit. One must be contantly thinking like this: " I want to get Moksha- so I wont goto pub this saturday, but use that time to meditate. I know that chicken looks very tasty, but it will disturb my mind, so I will only eat Veg food " . One has to be constantly on the guard, constantly rejecting lower Vrittis, & only allowing higher ones. " I only want Moksha- all other things like power, wealth are useless! " This is the only ethic required- then you will automatically stop stealing, lying, killing, as that will stop your or others( & this is important-thinking about others too) spiritual progress. Like Yoganand says in his book, he met a saint who said he was the most selfish man in the world, & not a Tyagi. Yoganand asked why. He replied he had accepted God love, & while ordinary people reject that for materialistic things. This made those ordianry people " Tyagis " , as they had rejected the most valuable thing of all! " I will only do those things that will help my spiritual progress " - this is the only ethic we need. love Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 You are right... But it is much easier to focus when the person is there physically. A few years back we had our group.. Where we used to do kundalini Yoga.... It was amazing.. that is the reason I asked.... Love On 8/31/07, beirut_ka_baba <no_reply > wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Babaji, Another thought crossed my mind.... I have noticed that sometimes in the mountains, the mind quietens of it own accord and though flow is very less.... The best experience was at Yamadwar at Kailash manasarovar. Can you enlighten me on this? Love Bala... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 , " Balachander Govindaraghavan " <balachand wrote: My spiritual brother bala, have you been to Kailash Mansrovar ? how lucky you are !! Yes you are right when we do sadhna in a group it has manyfolds effect. When i was in delhi i had such a group of friends and we chanted Aum together. The resonance was so high that all the room seemed to be singing Aum with us. and it helped all....and we saw many miracles in that room In Himalaya, the sadhna is certainly more powerful...that z why many of our rishis finally went to Himalays for the final leap. The Great legend Babaji also lives somewhere near Badrinath. Once i went to Gangotri with my friend, and there on the banks for Ganga we decided to do meditation for 5/10 mnts. We sat there chanting our mantra... and we were lost in nowhere. When we opened our eyes, we thought it may have been just 10 mnts that we did meditation, but surprisingly we were lost for more than one and half hours !!! That z why they call himalayas Dev-bhumi. Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: Keshav and shanracer.. thanks it could not have been said in better ways. Why I asked this question is that most of the public make fun of people having some bad habits. But as I have seen no bad habit or sin has ever stopped anyone from entering the spiritual realms Ratnakar was a violent dacoit and in moments he turned to a rishi. Tulsidas was a very sexy man, and crossed the river with the help of a floating corpse and climbed to the bed room of his wife through a deadly snake.... such a sexy person became Saint Tulsidas !! Vivekananda was an atheist and a purely logical person...and what he did for hinduism can not be forgotten. Kalidas was an utter idiot and he became such a spiritual writer that till date he has no parallel. So what it is exactly that turns a very bad man into a sage... whereas many others spend their life in meditation and gain nothing... Is it purely past karma ? if they have done mediation why they came back as sexy/violent/idiot... and suddenly jump towards spirituality Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 , beirut_ka_baba <no_reply wrote: > back as sexy/violent/idiot... and suddenly jump towards spirituality > > > Aum >I am very eager to know the answer to this beautiful question because I think that every sadhak falls down at some point of time to bounce back at some time later. I think its past karma and God's grace both.But this matter still perplexes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Babaji, Many things have hapened in my life for which I am not worthy. My father Shiva has been extremely loving and protective of me.... He has given me experiences and bliss beyond words for which I am ever grateful to him. That is why I have this deep urge to share this with our fellow travellers. This gift is for sharing.... The latest was at Kedarnath and Badrinath this summer. I love the Himalayas and I try my best to go there every year. In my experience till date, have realised that the last possible experience is that of Shiva....beyond which lies the unexpressable. One becomes like one is mad.... Laughing, crying, expanded beyond belief.....Bliss flows in the place of blood in one's body and one is as if drugged.... Unable to differentiate between joy and sorrow, good and bad, cold and warm.... I also had a chance this year to visit 8 of the shakthi sthalas.....including chinna masta, bagalamukhi, jwalamukhi... It was an amazing experience. Love Bala... On 9/1/07, beirut_ka_baba <no_reply > wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Rev. Gurudev, Obeisances. Turning point in these devine persons are torch of enlightment that made them to introspect at their own actual svaroopa. Tulsidasa's wife rebuked " you are so madly attracted to a body consisting flesh and blood and so many ingredients, had you been mad after Shri Rama like this, you could have ever meet Him " . The 'Divine Touch' by Swamy Ramkrishna Paramahansa, transmission of Divine Power from Guru to Disciple (Shaktipata) transformed atheist Narendra to Vivekananda. Idiot Kalidas turned as great thinker and poet because of his devotion, strong faith and self confidence. These are very important and ideal examples of history to impress the suspicious minds of Sadhakas. They assure that 'strong determination and hard work' can transform anybody to such highest position. I am at better position than those ones and I can surely ride the peak and with firm vow, he starts working in that direction. It is such inspiration that affirms confidence in devotees, enlights them to proceed further and works as tonig to shade away lazyness. It is real spark to ignite their inner spirit-lamp to blow up like sun and in that inner light they see their future ways clearly. Heartful regards. = Keshav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 >about darkness and light- I was agreeing with Shri Bala's thoughts about ignorance and awareness. I certainly did not mean that Shirdi Sain Baba is wrong or that he is using a wrong word or anything like that because doing anything except aggreing with the words of God or saints is blasphemy. Sins and the consequences of karmas are there for the ordinary man. He cant keep on lying thinking that there is no such thing as sin/darkness whether he is a gyaani or not.Gyaani is free of karmas if he is free of ego but even then he does his karma with care so that common people are not misguided in attempt to imitate his actions just as Lord Krishna says in Bhagvat Gita. Morality is very important.One should keep honesty above everything.If Shirdi Sain Baba says it is darkness then its darkness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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