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Sarva gattah

What does it really mean to be situated in Gods Kingdom and where is our true form?

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Yes Sarva..Panca-tattva...and onward to us>>> (karandakasayi visnu, garbhodakasayi visnu, ksirodakaysayi visnu (super-soul)...these are adhoksaja.) The adhoksaja plane presses down to us...then descending to us by grace buddhi (devotional service - bhakti)...we begin penetrating through the covering of mahat-tattva... inspired from guru tattva, and supersoul within. To apply us in service to hladhini (kriya) with offerings such as cushions, flowers (bala) etc...in unnaloyed devotion (srivasa) pure devotee. Complete tattva.

 

Back home...to complete Godhead. The end of this miserable ignorance...the opening of vasudeva conception in the jiva's heart.

 

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* side note: we must remember Sri Advaita a combined incarnation of visnu and sada-siva. Sada siva is beyond the mahat tattva and purely transcendental non-different to visnu. Sri Advaita is a great mystery in my opinion, rarely talked about. An exalted being. The bringer of the divine for us all to behold in vision...(we jiva can be graced by vasudeva conception while still on planet earth or shoould I say in transcendental consciousness living a life of application and dovetailing in wisdom!!!) Jaya Gauranga-Krsna conception!

Definately not sub-conscious dreaming.

Gaura-Nityananda! Sri Advaita...

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 6.21

advaita-ācārya koṭi-brahmāṇḍera kartā

āra eka eka mūrtye brahmāṇḍera bhartā

SYNONYMS

advaita-ācāryaAdvaita Ācārya; koṭi-brahmāṇḍera kartā — the creator of millions and millions of universes; āra — and; eka eka — each and every; mūrtye — by expansions; brahmāṇḍera bhartā — maintainer of the universe.

TRANSLATION

Śrī Advaita Ācārya is the creator of millions and millions of universes, and by His expansions [as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu] He maintains each and every universe.

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* side note: we must remember Sri Advaita a combined incarnation of visnu and sada-siva. Sada siva is beyond the mahat tattva and purely transcendental non-different to visnu. Sri Advaita is a great mystery in my opinion, rarely talked about. An exalted being. The bringer of the divine for us all to behold in vision...(we jiva can be graced by vasudeva conception while still on planet earth!!!) Jaya Gauranga-Krsna conception!

CC Ādi 6.21: Śrī Advaita Ācārya is the creator of millions and millions of universes, and by His expansions [as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu] He maintains each and every universe.

CC Ādi 6.22: Śrī Advaita is the principal limb [ańga] of Nārāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam speaks of "limb" [ańga] as "a plenary portion" [aḿśa] of the Lord.

CC Ādi 6.23: "O Lord of lords, You are the seer of all creation. You are indeed everyone's dearest life. Are You not, therefore, my father, Nārāyaṇa? 'Nārāyaṇa' refers to one whose abode is in the water born from Nara [Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu], and that Nārāyaṇa is Your plenary portion. All Your plenary portions are transcendental. They are absolute and are not creations of māyā."

 

Jaya Narayana!!!

 

 

http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/6/en

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CC Ādi 6.25: Why has Śrī Advaita been called a limb and not a part? The reason is that "limb" implies greater intimacy.

CC Ādi 6.26: Śrī Advaita, who is a reservoir of virtues, is the main limb of Mahā-Viṣṇu. His full name is Advaita, for He is identical in all respects with that Lord.

CC Ādi 6.27: As He had formerly created all the universes, now He descended to introduce the path of bhakti.

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Thakura Bhaktivinoda says souls start out "between the chit jagat and mayik jagat". That is, in a tatastha state where they are "compared with separate atomic emanations of the burning fire".

 

From there, some souls choose to go into Vaikuntha. Bhaktivioda wrote: "Those who chose to serve their God were protected from fall by the interference of the hladini attribute of the Supreme chit sakti. They have been admitted as eternal servants of the Deity in various ways."

 

Those souls enter Vaikuntha as newcomers. quote by Ramana dasi

Thank you Dasi...

 

And we have this opportunity now too Dasi, if we can free ourselves from trampling the tender flowers of (hladini) shakti. We must wait for that plane to admit us...

 

 

Madhya 20.397ataeva goloka-sthāne nitya vihāra

brahmāṇḍa-gaṇe krame prākaṭya tāhāra

SYNONYMS

ataeva — therefore; goloka-sthānein the original Goloka Vṛndāvana planet; nitya vihāra — eternal pastimes; brahmāṇḍa-gaṇe — within the material universes; krame — gradually; prākaṭya — manifestation; tāhāra — of them.

 

 

TRANSLATION

"The eternal pastimes of Kṛṣṇa are continuously taking place in the original Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. These same pastimes are gradually manifested within the material world, in each and every brahmāṇḍa.

 

 

PURPORT

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura elucidates this complicated explanation of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are always present in the material world in one of the many universes. These pastimes appear in the universes one after the other, just as the sun moves across the sky and measures the time. Kṛṣṇa's appearance may be manifested in this universe at one moment, and immediately after His birth, this pastime is manifested in the next universe. After His killing of Pūtanā is manifested in this universe, it is next manifested in another universe. Thus all the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa are eternally existing both in the original Goloka Vṛndāvana planet and in the material universes. The 125 years calculated in our solar system to be Kṛṣṇa's lifetime equal one moment for Kṛṣṇa. One moment these pastimes are manifested in one universe, and the next moment they are manifested in the next universe. There are unlimited universes, and Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are manifested one moment after the other in all of them. This rotation is explained through the example of the sun's moving across the sky. Kṛṣṇa appears and disappears in innumerable universes, just as the sun appears and disappears during the day. Although the sun appears to rise and set, it is continuously shining somewhere on the earth. Similarly, although Kṛṣṇa's pastimes seem to appear and disappear, they are continuously existing in one brahmāṇḍa (universe) or another. Thus all of Kṛṣṇa's līlās are present simultaneously throughout the innumerable universes. By our limited senses we cannot appreciate this; therefore Kṛṣṇa's eternal pastimes are very difficult for us to understand. One should try to understand how they are taking place by understanding the analogy of the sun. Although the Lord is appearing constantly in the material universes, His pastimes are eternally present in the original Goloka Vṛndāvana. Therefore these pastimes are called nitya-līlā (eternally present pastimes). Because we cannot see what is going on in other universes, it is a little difficult for us to understand how Kṛṣṇa is eternally manifesting His pastimes. There are fourteen Manus in one day of Brahmā, and this time calculation is also taking place in other universes. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are manifested before fourteen Manus expire. Although it is a little difficult to understand the eternal pastimes of Kṛṣṇa in this way, we must accept the verdict of the Vedic literatures.

There are two types of devotees — the sādhaka, who is preparing for perfection, and the siddha, who is already perfect. As far as those who are already perfect are concerned, Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā (4.9), tyaktvā dehaḿ punar janma naiti mām eti so 'rjuna: "After giving up this material body, such a devotee comes to Me." After leaving the material body, the perfect devotee takes birth from the womb of a gopī on a planet where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are going on. This may be in this universe or another universe. This statement is found in the Ujjvala-nīlamaṇi, which is commented upon by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. When a devotee becomes perfect, he is transferred to the universe where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are taking place. Kṛṣṇa's eternal associates go wherever Kṛṣṇa manifests His pastimes. As stated before, first the father and mother of KṛṣṇaKṛṣṇa and His other associates appear, then the other associates. Quitting his material body, the perfect devotee also goes to associate with Krsna and His other associates.

 

 

 

Modern scientific consciousness researchers and even quantum physicists can see the deeper inter-connection these days, or at least the shadow of that consciousness reality. The Krsna conscious researcher and spiritual pioneers can see that ultimate dimension (that exists in another universe) within his/her own heart. Raganuga bhakti...

 

 

There are two types of devotees — the sādhaka, who is preparing for perfection, and the siddha, who is already perfect. As far as those who are already perfect are concerned, Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā (4.9), tyaktvā dehaḿ punar janma naiti mām eti so 'rjuna: "After giving up this material body, such a devotee comes to Me." After leaving the material body, the perfect devotee takes birth from the womb of a gopī on a planet where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are going on. This may be in this universe or another universe. This statement is found in the Ujjvala-nīlamaṇi, which is commented upon by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. When a devotee becomes perfect, he is transferred to the universe where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are taking place. Kṛṣṇa's eternal associates go wherever Kṛṣṇa manifests His pastimes. As stated before, first the father and mother of KṛṣṇaKṛṣṇa and His other associates appear, then the other associates. Quitting his material body, the perfect devotee also goes to associate with Krsna and His other associates.

Matter appears to be seperate and isolated, as do the planets and universes...but that is external. Consciousness does not operate within these relative parameters. That is why the first book of Srila Prabhupada is so important to grasp 'Easy Journey to Other Planets'. He was speaking in scientific terminology and theory of that day - matter, anti-matter. How much his heart would be full of joy, knowing that his children and great children have such golden opportunity to apply all things in service inthis 21st century.

 

In my opinion, Srila Prabhupada asked his disciples to study all the acarays books and distribute/print them. Personally I feel they limit themselves simply living of quotes here and there from lectures. All the truth is in the books! And the acarays books...Guru tattva is one.

 

 

In the Introduction to Shrimad-Bhagavatam, Shrila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada writes: “Many devotees of Lord Chaitanya like Shrila Vrindavana dasa Thakura, Shri Locana dasa Thakura, Shrila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, Shri Kavikarnapura, Shri Prabodhananda Sarasvati, Shri Rupa Gosvami, Shri Sanatana Gosvami, Shri Raghunatha Bhatta Gosvami, Shri Jiva Gosvami, Shri Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, Shri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and in this latter age within two hundred years, Shri Visvanatha Cakravarti, Shri Baladeva Vidyabhushana, Shri Syamananda Gosvami, Shri Narottama dasa Thakura, Shri Bhaktivinoda Thakura and at last Shri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura (our spiritual master) and many other great and renowned scholars and devotees of the Lord have prepared voluminous books and literatures on the life and precepts of the Lord.

Such literatures are all based on the sastras like the Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads, Ramayana, Mahabharata and other histories and authentic literatures approved by the recognized acaryas. They are unique in composition and unrivaled in presentation, and they are full of transcendental knowledge. Unfortunately the people of the world are still ignorant of them, but when these literatures, which are mostly in Sanskrit and Bengali, come to light the world and when they are presented before thinking people, then India’s glory and the message of love will overflood this morbid world, which is vainly searching after peace and prosperity by various illusory methods not approved by the acaryas in the chain of disciplic succession."

Jaya Nityananda! Jaya Gauranga! The life and soul of Vrindavan Dasa Thakura.

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Jeeva being ansha of His jeeva shakti has nothing to do with the falldown of jeevatma.

 

No one falls down from Paravyoma.

 

Jaya Vijaya CAME DOWN as per Sri Bhagavan's wishes for He wished to battle.

Who can match the lord of Vaikuntha is battle ?

Thus His energy/cit sakti arranged for the perfect so called aparadha of Sanakadik paramhamsa by jaya vijaya and they became Hiranakshya and Hiranyakasipu.

This is revealed in the bhagavata.

 

Srila prabhupada might be advocating fall down from spiritual world for he himself comes from there.lol.

 

Jokes apart,Sastra does not support your theory.

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Vijaya is not nitya-baddha jiva. But Jay and Vijaya were gate keepers of Vaikuntha. Interesting to note Ranjeet that Vijaya attained liberation by merging into the body of the Lord, different to what Gaudiya's aspire for.

 

Also an interesting point that Sarva made is that the tatastha shakti jiva souls, as Srila Prabhupada said, are never void or formless. Void is buddhistic atheism which deals with the world of maya (therefore mayavada). We, nitya-baddha jiva's have an intrinsic sthayi-bhava which may even be in santa (kumaras had form), and the nitya-siddha's also have sthayi-bhava exercised....

 

....Sarva's argument that there is no time relevancy in the spiritual sky is a very good realization! Because we tend to split hairs and say, 'oh jiva was in a plain sheet of consciousness before vaikuntha, or, no no he was always in vaikuntha!'

You see, the acarayas have only said this about the fall: that it happened in a time immemorial, inconceivable to us who live presently in the realm of time. Because we live in this relative world of time and relative form, we can only grasp to a certain extent pure truths. The concept of jiva in its orignal state is free of time, so we cannot speculate when or how the jiva moved from (please forgive my word usage) choosing hladhini into Goloka or not. Time is a false concept in this relation, because time does not exist in the spiritual sky. Therefore speculation on such concepts only leads to divergent philosophies and possible offence.

 

When in truth, in a higher sense, Sarva is right...we have not fallen...we just need to wake up! God is all expansive and all inclusive...he does live in the heart!

 

Jiva Jago!

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No one falls down from Paravyoma.

.

 

Souls do fall from Paravyoma:

 

Srimad Bhagavata 10.2.32

 

ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas

tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah

aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah

patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah

 

"O Lord, the intelligence of those who think themselves liberated but who have no devotion is impure. Even though they rise to the highest point of liberation by dint of severe penances and austerities, they are sure to fall down again into material existence, for they do not take shelter at Your lotus feet."

 

This verse is quoted many times by Sri Chaitanya in his Sanatana-siksha in Chaitanya Charitamrta

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Srila Prabhupada - ‘When the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.’(Srimad-Bhagavatam

4.28.54, purport)

 

So many misunderstand our eternal constitution or eternal devotional ’svarupa’ foundations.

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - ‘‘When we “return” to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here".

 

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - "We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position. We need only wake up and see where we are".

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - "All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left".

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - "Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth’ Ravindra Svarup dasa web site

Srila Prabhupada - ‘The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully". (Srimad-Bhagavatam

4.28.54, purport)

 

Srila Prabhupada - ‘Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.’(Srimad-Bhagavatam

4.28.54, purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) and eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha). Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha).Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54,purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned (baddha-jiva), there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease".

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Souls do fall from Paravyoma:

 

Srimad Bhagavata 10.2.32

 

ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas

tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah

aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah

patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah

 

"O Lord, the intelligence of those who think themselves liberated but who have no devotion is impure. Even though they rise to the highest point of liberation by dint of severe penances and austerities, they are sure to fall down again into material existence, for they do not take shelter at Your lotus feet."

 

This verse is quoted many times by Sri Chaitanya in his Sanatana-siksha in Chaitanya Charitamrta

 

This verse says souls who are liberated (vimukta) but who have no devotion to the Lord can fall down. But the devotees never fall down.

 

 

ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ

punar āvartino 'rjuna

mām upetya tu kaunteya

punar janma na vidyate

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*********avisuddha-buddhayaḥ******** whose intelligence is still not purified and who do not know the goal of life

 

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.2.32

ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas

tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraḿ padaḿ tataḥ

patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-ańghrayaḥ

SYNONYMS

ye anye — anyone, or all others; aravinda-akṣaO lotus-eyed one; vimukta-māninaḥ — falsely considering themselves free from the bondage of material contamination; tvayi — unto You; asta-bhāvāt — speculating in various ways but not knowing or desiring more information of Your lotus feet;*********avisuddha-buddhayaḥ******** whose intelligence is still not purified and who do not know the goal of life; āruhya — even though achieving; kṛcchreṇa — by undergoing severe austerities, penances and hard labor; param padam — the highest position (according to their imagination and speculation); tataḥ — from that position; patanti — they fall; adhaḥ — down into material existence again; anādṛta — neglecting devotion to; yuṣmat — Your; ańghrayaḥ — lotus feet.

 

 

TRANSLATION

[someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet.

 

 

PURPORT

Aside from devotees, there are many others, nondevotees, known as karmīs, jñānīs or yogīs, philanthropists, altruists, politicians, impersonalists and voidists. There are many varieties of nondevotees who have their respective ways of liberation, but simply because they do not know the shelter of the Lord's lotus feet, although they falsely think that they have been liberated and elevated to the highest position, they fall down. As clearly stated by the Lord Himself in Bhagavad-gītā (9.3):

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

aprāpya māḿ nivartante

mṛtyu-saḿsāra-vartmani

"Those who are not faithful on the path of devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of foes, but return to birth and death in this material world." It doesn't matter whether one is a karmī, jñānī, yogī, philanthropist, politician or whatever; if one has no love for the lotus feet of the Lord, one falls down. That is the verdict given by Lord brahma in this verse.

There are persons who advocate accepting any process and who say that whatever process one accepts will lead to the same goal, but that is refuted in this verse, where such persons are referred to as vimukta-māninaḥ, signifying that although they think they have attained the highest perfection, in fact they have not. In the present day, big, big politicians all over the world think that by scheming they can occupy the highest political post, that of president or prime minister, but we actually see that even in this life such big prime ministers, presidents and other politicians, because of being nondevotees, fall down (patanty adhaḥ). To become president or prime minister is not easy; one must work very hard (āruhya kṛcchreṇa) to achieve the post. And even though one may reach his goal, at any moment one may be kicked down by material nature. In human society there have been many instances in which great, exalted politicians have fallen from government and become lost in historical oblivion. The cause of this is aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: their intelligence is impure. The śāstra says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiḿ hi viṣṇum (Bhāg. 7.5.31). One achieves the perfection of life by becoming a devotee of Viṣṇu, but people do not know this. Therefore, as stated in Bhagavad-gītā (12.5), kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Persons who do not ultimately accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead and take to devotional service, but who instead are attached to impersonalism and voidism, must undergo great labor to achieve their goals.

śreyaḥ-sṛtiḿ bhaktim udasya te vibho

kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye

(Bhāg. 10.14.4)

To achieve understanding, such persons work very hard and undergo severe austerities, but their hard labor and austerities themselves are their only achievement, for they do not actually achieve the real goal of life.

Dhruva Mahārāja at first wanted to achieve the greatest material kingdom and greater material possessions than his father, but when he was actually favored by the Lord, who appeared before him to give him the benediction he desired, Dhruva Mahārāja refused it, saying, svāmin kṛtārtho'smi varaḿ na yāce: "Now I am fully satisfied. I do not want any material benediction." (Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 7.28) This is the perfection of life. Yaḿ labdhvā cāparaḿ lābhaḿ manyate nādhikaḿ tataḥ (Bg. 6.22). If one achieves the shelter of the Lord's lotus feet, one is fully satisfied and does not need to ask for any material benediction.

At night, no one can see a lotus, for lotuses blossom only during the daytime. Therefore the word aravindākṣa is significant. One who is not captivated by the lotus eyes or transcendental form of the Supreme Lord is in darkness, exactly like one who cannot see a lotus. One who has not come to the point of seeing the lotus eyes and transcendental form of Śyāmasundara is a failure. premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead in love always see the Lord's lotus eyes and lotus feet, whereas others cannot see the Lord's beauty and are therefore classified as anādṛta-yuṣmad-ańghrayaḥ, or neglectful of the Lord's personal form. Those who neglect the Lord's form are surely failures on every path in life, but if one develops even a little love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one is liberated without difficulty (svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt). Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead recommends in Bhagavad-gītā (9.34), man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māḿ namaskuru: "Simply think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer some slight homage to Me." Simply by this process, one is guaranteed to return home, back to Godhead, and thus attain the highest perfection. The Lord further affirms in Bhagavad-gītā

 

 

 

(18.54-55):

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāńkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiḿ labhate parām

bhaktyā mām abhijānāti

yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ

tato māḿ tattvato jñātvā

viśate tad-anantaram

 

"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me. One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God."

 

 

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