The Savior-Guru Syndrome

[Guest guest]

The "Savior-Guru" Syndrome

[originally published on the Dandavats website]

By Sankirtana dasa

“We offer our most sincere and humble obeisances to our spiritual master, who is all merciful and who is the savior of the fallen. He dissipates the darkness of nescience by opening our eyes with transcendental knowledge. He reveals this knowledge for the benefit of all people.” (Message of Godhead, Ch 1). There is no doubt in my mind about the saving grace of the spiritual master. We have undergone countless births in various forms of life and finally, by learning from him we come to know what the real purpose of life is. “To attain perfection in transcendental knowledge, is to accept the teachers and their teachings in the disciplic succession, the spiritual line. By cultivation, by practice, and through education in that line.”

(MoG, Ch 1) Definitely, the guru is our savior!

Why then the apparent ambiguous title of this paper? The Webster dictionary defines a syndrome as a group of signs that indicate a specific disorder or a disease. What is here the disorder we believe to have discovered and wish to share with the readers? Who is infected with it and what are the symptoms? I’d like to elaborate on this in the below paragraphs.

A practitioner of spiritual life always retains his own sweet will to decide to which extent he or she wants to apply himself or herself to the process. The exalted goal of the practice, pure and selfless service devotion to God, is clearly defined. Taken the object in consideration, we can assume that the attainment of this elevated goal is not easily achieved. Obviously, as in any other lofty achievement, one would think it requires also here strong determination and a persistent endeavor. Yet, we can find in Srila Prabhupada’s writings, statements that seem to indicate an approach that demands hardly any struggle: “There is no need of strenuous effort to free oneself from sinful reactions. One should unhesitatingly accept Krishna as the supreme savior of all living entities. With faith and love, one should surrender unto Him.” (BG. 18.66 pp) In the same purport, elaborating on the process of surrender, Srila Prabhupada writes: “One should always think himself helpless and should consider Krishna the only basis for his progress in life.” Thus one may take it that one simply needs to feel helpless, have faith in guru and Krishna and dutifully chant the holy names and one will attain perfection: “Where is the difficulty in Hare Krishna chanting? This is the only savior for the human society of this age.”

(Lecture, July 27, 1973)

However, chanting can be of different natures. Commenting on Queen Kunti’s observation of how the Lord can be approached only by the materially exhausted, Srila Prabhupada writes: “Actually the Lord’s holy name has such powerful potency. But there is a quality to such utterances also. It depends on the quality of feeling.” (SB 1.8.26 pp) So the quality of our chanting is a crucially influential factor. It seems that some devotees totally ignore this important fact. Some think that they have been saved by the very act of taking initiation from a guru and they reason that they´re too fallen to advance in any other way except for being depending on his mercy. It can be said with certainty though, that when following such conclusions they neglect to chant with increasing quality, they will make no or only very little progress in their spiritual pursuits. Although guru and Krishna are the saviors, unless we follow their instruction to sincerely call on Krishna’s name, we are not advancing. Actually chanting the Lord´s names requires constant effort, profound will-power and scriptural insight, because chanting really is a spiritually scientific process.

We know about the different stages of chanting. It is the namabhasa stage of chanting that elevates one to the position of offence-less chanting. Srila Rupa Goswami, in an analogy, compares the fallen conditioned soul to someone afflicted with the disease called jaundice. Due to being ill with jaundice, the patient cannot taste the sweetness of sugar. Likewise, because of impurities, we have no taste for the sweet experience of the holy name. Although chanting the Lord´s names is by nature a pleasant activity, we find it difficult. To compensate for the lack of feelings and experience which would be derived from chanting purely, we are advised to invest much effort and will-power. Our thoughts wander here and there whilst chanting but one must focus the mind back to the hearing of the chanting. By this practice we will gradually recover from our restlessness and taste the sweetness of chanting again. Fallen and foolish as we may be, we shouldn´t want to remain fallen and foolish. His Grace Bhurijana Prabhu recalls in his book ‘My Glorious Master’ how one time Srila Prabhupada spoke about the humility of advanced devotees. At that time Bhurijana Prabhu expressed: “My only qualification is that I am a fool.” Srila Prabhupada then looked at him sharply. “Yes, but you should not remain a fool.” (MGM 16)

The spiritual master opens our eyes with the torchlight of knowledge (om ajnana-timirandhasya) and by his guidance we learn to see things as they are. By his and Krishna’s grace we become conscious of our faults and learn how to improve our chanting. Attentive chanting whilst trying to give up impure desires are the basic characteristics of sadhana bhakti. By following this process and with the saving grace of guru and Krishna we can successfully overcome all shortcomings and defects. We will gradually regain the purity to constantly chant and will thus be blessed with the ability to serve Krishna unconditionally.

What I have come to recognize over the years while meeting different devotees in different parts of the world is that there is always a group of persons who believe they found an alternative to the scientific process of sadhana bhakti. They commonly declare that they have a “unique” advantage over others due to the mercy of an especially elevated “savior-guru”. According to them, it is by the strength of the purity of the guru that one makes advancement and their guru, of course, is the best. Following such conclusion, the service they render to their guru is all there is and all that counts. Instead of strict adherence to the sadhana bhakti process they demonstrate a high degree of “guru-bhakti”. Their preaching usually consists of the glorification of the guru’s deeds and qualities and they put much stress on the absolute necessity to get his mercy. Hardly ever do they explain the scientific process of sadhana bhakti. They are adamant on the mistaken idea that lining up lots of new candidates for initiation is the guru’s greatest concern and interest. Such devotees generally are indifferent to the mood, mission and practice as established by the Founder-Acharya of our worldwide movement. They are staunch followers of their own guru and are happy to have been “saved” by him.

There´s a Bengali proverb that says, “Too much devotion is a symptom of a thief” (ati bhakti corera laksana). Not acknowledging and dealing with one´s own material desires indicates dishonesty and/or lack of sincerity and on the long run causes such devotees to become weak and restless. Sometimes they even end up indulging in illicit connection with someone else’s wife

(or husband), thereby causing great embarrassment to their guru and the community of devotees. To what degree their guru is aware of these weaknesses in the practice and preaching of such disciples, I don´t know. Nevertheless, from what I have seen, the general pattern is that usually some of the new converts take up the same mood which they learned from the persons who introduced them to the “savior-guru” and also become “unique”. In this way their numbers increases steadfastly and with it the perpetuation of their tradition of a self-invented mood and mission.

What to do when one comes across such a scenario? I’d like to have the answers myself. I usually try to protect others from the misleading ideas of such preachers by making efforts to explain the process of Krishna Consciousness in an interesting and attractive manner. I also try to maintain a good example of “guru-bhakti” by having a strict, visible sadhana by chanting with the devotees in the recommended early morning hours. But generally the “unique” devotees keep up a protective wall around their ideas and life styles. I would like to understand better how to build bridges and actually help them to critically consider things so that they could see how they have digressed. Any practical advice (comments) from your own experience in this regard is appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Over the years I have met old devotee friends and strangers alike who had drifted to ‘greener pastures.’ At first, my dealings with them were based on either retaining the friendship and avoiding potential differences of opinion. But trying to be congenial can entice them, with their new-found faith to espouse the glories of their new master whilst belittling Srila Prabhupada’s teachings and purpose.

I am not one to belittle these masters and will not say anything bad. And we too should keep tabs on our wish to defame them. We can however be a little firm with those who have deserted Srila Prsbhupada with why’s and determin the reasons for them doing so, if they resort to ‘I have something higher’ talk.

The usual responses from them are related to low esteem and lack of personal direction. I have seen ambitious practitioners who could not progress here, to try their luck elsewhere under the guise of ‘higher association.’ This is not to generalize and say all those who leave are ambitious. Whatever their concerns were, they acted upon them and left.

If we happen to meet them we can give a warm Haribol! But be under no illusion to hear Srila Prabhupada belittled.We should be clear that Srila Prabhupada gave his life for us and everything required to advance in Krsna consciousness. With this stance we can always say something like “When are you coming back?” But it is not always going to win them over.

The best policy is to just be a true reflection of what Srila Prabhupada intended us to be - humble but firm. Try to be the vaisnava as portrayed by our previous acaryas. And to be totally genuine and authentic. It is by these qualities we can at least make them feel at home with us. On this basis we may have some air-time to say what we want without being confrontational.

Time always tells. If after some time should their saviours cease to be, we will discover where their real allegiance lies. But overall, avoiding conflicting situations should be our way. It is very rare to find genuine vaisnavas anyway.

[muralidhar_das 0]

Posted on dandavats.com:::::

 

 

 

In the final paragraph of his purport to Nectar of Instruction verse 5 His Divine Grace says:

 

 

“Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikārī Vaiṣṇava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaiṣṇavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī. A neophyte Vaiṣṇava or a Vaiṣṇava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.”

 

 

Unfortunately many people do not seek to find a highly advanced Guru but instead the accept someone who is popular or regarded as “advanced” within their region. Sometimes the disciple also thinks that by sadhana he can make advancement, or that by associating with many Vaishnavas he will get their blessings and make advancement. What then might happen, hypothetically speaking, if someone takes diksa from a kanistha Vaishnava who is doing a good imitation of being a Vaishnava on a higher level? Might the disciple later regret that he accepted the person who his friends said was “advanced”? Do things like this happen, ever?

 

 

<!-- end .comments-middle --> Comment posted by Murali Das on June 10th, 2007

[Guruvani 0]

In reality, it's not a major obstacle to advancement if one's diksha guru is a lower level devotee.

As long as one has access to siksha from the first class devotees he can do as good as the direct disciples of the first class devotee because in fact by accepting such a first class devotee as siksha guru he is no different than a formally initiated disciples.

 

But, when lower class devotees accept the role as diksha guru and then go away from the movement it creates a big disturbance to his "disciples" and also looks bad for the movement.

 

That is why a ritvik system is better for ISKCON because it prevents all that and at the same time continues the formal initiation tradition in some form.

[Guest guest]

Haribol, murali. Thanks for your thoughtful posts on these forums. I recently had a conversation with a devotee who greatly opposed my writings that dealt with the potency of the spiritual master and the topics were about the difference between THE GURU and MY GURU. I made points about how I dont really care if Srila Prabhupada is proclaimed the guru of ISKCON, the guru of rtviks, the guru of initiation systems and foundations. This has never been of any concern to me. MY GURU. Period. The conversation went like this:

 

....

 

mahaksadasa: Haribol. I have not rejected anything you have said

out of hand, but I do carefully analyze. You claim that I ignore

your instructions, but you do not carefully analyze what is being

said, therefore your answers are tainted with your negligent

perceptions. Case in point:

 

You made me out to be a whiner concerning the sanyassis treatment

concerning the garland I gave to Srila Prabhupada. In fact, your

words were to the effect that I resented them for preventing me from

giving Srila Prabhupada the garland. This demonstrates clearly that

you did not read, did not understand, or deliberately tried to

butcher what I had written. The real fact is that the sanyassis DID

NOT interfere in the slightest with the guru disciple relationship.

Srila Prabhupada thwarted those criminals and accepted the garland.

So everything you wrote to frame me as a whiner because I was

mistreated by sanyassis is a lie, either unintentional or by

design. So naturally, this is the reason I reject other things you

have said, because you have demonstrated clear ill-will towards me,

just as you have done to others like (...dasa), (....dasa), et al.

 

devotee: "I respect people alot more if they do not prevaricate and

try to set a mood or try to paint themselves as equivalent to my

level of ignorance in order to then justify criticizing my method of

self expression, or use some guilt tactic to try to get me to shut

up. The best way to get someone to be silent is to prove them

wrong. And if this is done and the person still speaks, they stand

exposed, and consequences with just equivalent to their

transgression of the truth are forthcoming."

 

mahaksadasa: I agree. We are all exposed. This is the meaning of

istagosthi, we lay all our cards on the table. Im exposed, and so

are YOU.

 

devotee: "When I put forth my opinion among those who consider

themselves devotees, I expect that it will stand, unless someone can

show me using transcendental authority where I am mistaken. Srila

Prabhupada did this for me and slayed my ignorance in so many ways,

so it is not as if I cannot take correction. It is actually rather

tiresome countering a person who refuses to quit the path of

conjecture and speculation. If it wasn't for the fact that the

innocent may be misled by such charismatic rambling, I certainly

would not bother."

 

mahaksadasa: There is no conjecture, nor speculation, in relating

facts as witnessed, or to present other ways to view the same

phenomena. There is no philosophy being presented in my writings on

the subject of why I personally do not accept certain things. You

are not defeating me in any way, shape, or form by presenting Srila

Prabhupadas version. You have given no one any reason to discount

how I view things. Im sure there are many who disagree with my

version perhaps even more than you, but they dont quack to correct a

long held view, because they have sense enough to know such things

are futile. Had I committed Vaisnava aparadha or breached Vaisnava

ettiquette, there would be many to point this out, as I would

excpect as well as appreciate.

 

Personally, I have never seen you give in the slightest to any who

have presented opposing views. However, Im sure those familiar with

my writings, the thousands of pages I have written over the last ten

years, know that I readily see their points, that I submit to good

instruction, that I carefully consider their points. But many also

know that I dont bend to bully tactics of fanatics who only want to

present themselves as authority, thinking that by throwing a quote

here or there, they are covered. Well, you are not covered at all,

your bias is well evident, and the only thing you offer is what I

referred to as character assassination. In other words, just as is

often the case, when one finds non-existant fault in others, it is

simply a reflexion of our own problems. And the part that is really

ludicrous is your insistance that you arent doing this for your own

self, but for the poor, ignorant and innocent children on this forum

who are being led to slaughter by the words of the great demagogue

mahaksadasa. All glories to you, the real champion of the poor.

 

Charismatic. Give me relief, please. Leave the protection of

others to those who have protection themselves. Hare Krsna, ys,

mahaksadasa

 

/...

 

In closing, Guru is savior, but only because he comes from full protection himself. Not protected by society or the number of disciples he has, or especially not because throngs proclaim him Protector. Srimad Bhagavatam (meaning guru and shastra) is the boat with the strong captain, under full protection against the sea of nescience by Lord Sri Krsna, Sri Partha sarathi. As Narada tells Yudhisthira that he cannot protect anyone while within the jaws of the serpant, pretense of protection is not valid. Only the captain of the strong ship holds a good lifeline for us to all grab.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[muralidhar_das 0]

Thanks for that Mahak

 

I've always appreciated your perspective too.

 

BTW, I was with Tusta for a few years. So we have some history in common.

[Guest guest]

A truely kind-hearted individual. I especially received great teachings from Sriman BA Paramadwaiti Swami by reading his eulogy of Sri Tusta Krsna. This simple appreciation is a classic report on Vaisnava Unity, despite our many differences. If you dont mind, Id like to paste it on this forum, because it shows how divergent disciples of the same spiritual master get his message in full.

 

...

 

A MEMORY OF A FRIEND AND VAISHNAVA PREACHER

by Swami B.A. Paramadvaiti

(06/Jan/03) In my office in Miami hangs an oil painting of Sri Sri Radha and Krishna. I was looking at it with admiration when I went to Sacramento to visit my Godbrother, Sri Tusta Krishna das. He did not like to be called Prabhu and I respect this desire here in this memory of him. He gave me this painting and said: "You appreciate it more than me". Thus it is now with me giving me chance to think very often of him. You know, I have many Godbrothers, but believe me: not many really want to open up and really get to know you. But he was not like that. He told me so many stories about his meeting with Srila Prabhupada and how he had always searched out devotees who had no cruelty in their behavior.

 

Tusta was very busy. He had accepted his Godbrother, Jagad Guru Siddhasvarupanandaji, as his siksa guru after the departure of our Srila Prabhupada. He had been instrumental in preaching in so many places. His preaching record has no limits. He was running a business in Sacramento of medical billing and a tape ministry called Transcendental Sound from the offices. But he was usually in the Philippines, Russia, Poland, and Swiss or with his siksa guru in Hawaii. He didn¡¯t have much time to spend in his business, which was employing many devotees as well. He used to organize humongous Krishna-katha and Harinam chanting festival. Those retreats used to last for many days and his sweet kirtan went on for hours with apparently no end, and then in his classes he would answer every question meticulously so that everybody would be amazed. He conveyed the love for Sri Guru in such a way that many of the disciples of Jagad Guru, who had not had the chance to meet him personally, were growing with Tusta Krishnas love and care. Thus he opened so many branches of the mission of Lord Chaitanya. Definitely chanting the holy names was one of his favorite activities. What can I say; I am simply remembering his devotional symptoms to purify myself. As an international preacher he could appreciate immediately the great need of the World Vaishnava Association. When you are out there in some country, where nobody knows the glories of bhakti-yoga, and young children of influential people start joining your ashram, you can be sure that it is important that you will be looked upon as a genuine world religion, a recognized way to God, rather than some guru personality cult which has neither tradition nor pure values as has been seen here and there and has created in many people great fears what to speak when their own children are getting totally involved with a very little known monastic group. Due to somebody joining a temple, we have seen entire temples being arrested. Humongous press scandals and many heavy persecutions. Tusta Krishna knew that it was essential that Vaishnavas have a forum were they can present themselves jointly to the world, where they recognize each other with respect and where the roots of Vaishnavism, sanatan dharma, are associated with the Hindu world religion. Therefore he approached different Hindu-organizations when there was any chance to protect the dignity of Srila Prabhupada teachings.

 

He preached up a storm. Dedication to Sri Guru was for him a law and not an option. I was so lucky to get his inspired company as he came to India and visited holy places. He wanted the Chaitanya mission everywhere in the world. He sent missionaries to Hungary and Germany. Always fired up he also saw great value in the World Vaishnava Association. He started VINA, the Vaishnava Internet News Agency, to help people in the world respect the message of our gurudeva. He did not want to present internal difficulties in or amongst Vaishnava institutions mixed with an Internet news page which is there to glorify Krishna and our spiritual masters and their service to the world.

 

He was fierce in defending Vaishnavism when someone made an attack against the servants of Krishna or our philosophy. In Poland he defended the Vaishnavas in court and defeated the nun who had leveled attack against the Vaishnavas for supposedly serving an immoral God who married 16108 princesses.

 

But he solved the whole case before the judge. He asked her whether she had a ring on her finger. She remained silent. Then he asked her whether when she became a nun and they put a ring on her finger they had told her that she was becoming the wife of Jesus. Again she remained silent. Then Tusta Krishna turned to the judge and all in the courtroom and said:" She criticizes Krishna for his many wives but worships Jesus who is married to all the nuns in the world." After a great laughter the judge dismissed the case in favor of the Vaishnavas.

 

Tusta Krishna was always ready to work hard. He had a nice family which he told me he got because he was too attached to enjoy. But his preaching was so heartfelt that all felt that his love belonged to all.

 

His siksa guru and my Godbrother became known to me personally as we visited him together. He was so careful to do everything nicely. He took me to the person, who was the most precious jewel he had after Srila Prabhupada left this world. We sang and talked and talked and rejoiced about how close we were in our feelings and appreciations despite our cultural differences in upbringing and experience. But we shared intensively the desire to give Prabhupada and his loving message to the whole world. And we did not want institutionalism interfere with our priority. Unfortunately that time was over and the routine business took over. Yes it is wonderful to have real loving Godbrothers in this world. But they are busy and so are we if we take up the responsibility Srila Prabhupada left for us.

 

Then he told me he was sick. After a few years of intensive cell phone use he got strong headaches and a brain tumor was discovered. What followed was the departure of a great Sankirtan general from this world. He accepted the situation and kept preaching and encouraging all. I invited him to come and stay in Vrindavan before he would leave us. An operation was recommended but promised little or no hope for a cure. Gaining time maybe. But his beloved siksa guru told him to be close to him in Hawaii. Jagad Guru shared with me the great moments how he left this world. Being close to guru is being close to Krishna. There is the highest Vrindavan. He was chanting with incredible intensity. Our common friend Vidagda Madhava went to see him and made his thesis about Krishna into a book. We were all holding our breath. Here he was leaving us fixing every atom of his body on Krishna. It was glorious. The passing of a surrendered soul back home back to Godhead. As Srila Prabhupada had promised to us. Hey Tusta, now since you are there with Krishna ask him to give me a little bit of a break with this fickle mind, who does not want to give up his sense gratification, will you?

 

I had a small portion of his company. His devotees all over and his dear Godbrother/siksa guru know him and miss him so much more. Good that we are in a transcendental movement where the death of the body is nothing but a change of place for serving our Lord and master somewhere else.

 

I pray that his ideas will remain dynamic. He started the press office of the World Vaishnava Association and led the anti Xeena campaign when they were offending our deities for their amusement. He is a person whom you can go on serving for the rest of your life and feel fortunate to be close to him.

 

I wish I could discover that deep relationship with many more Godbrothers. One day we discovered a philosophical difference in our opinions. The first thing we concluded at that very moment was: Let us not destroy our relationship over this difference. And so it was. Pettiness creates a judgmental attitude, a feeling of superiority over all who understand things even slightly different than you.

 

Tusta Krishnaji. You did not visit this world in vain. Neither did you leave it in vain. You are still here in the form of all those who took up Krishna consciousness due to your preaching, or those who intensified their spiritual life due to your preaching. They will continue this life of dedication as well as the family you left behind who were heartfelt dedicated to you and your guide.

 

....

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada and his disciples. Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani 0]

Bilvamangal Thakur's only formal diksha came from a Vaidic brahman who was what we commonly refer to in the Hare Krishna movement as an "impersonalist".

But, he got Vaishnava siksha from his girlfriend Cintamani and ultimatelly attained the suddha sattva platform and entered into the pastimes of Krishna.

[theist 1]

 

Bilvamangal Thakur's only formal diksha came from a Vaidic brahman who was what we commonly refer to in the Hare Krishna movement as an "impersonalist".

But, he got Vaishnava siksha from his girlfriend Cintamani and ultimatelly attained the suddha sattva platform and entered into the pastimes of Krishna.

 

Diksa comes in this way, by the impression that transcendental truth has upon the mind. The next step is to recognize who it was taht was speaking through Cintamani and from whom Bilvamangala's intiation actually came.

 

UThough he acts through many utimately there is only one initiating spiritual master and that is Caitya-guru.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Diksa comes in this way, by the impression that transcendental truth has upon the mind. The next step is to recognize who it was taht was speaking through Cintamani and from whom Bilvamangala's intiation actually came.

 

UThough he acts through many utimately there is only one initiating spiritual master and that is Caitya-guru.

Or, like Sridhar Maharaja put it "nobody can give Krishna, only Krishna can give himself".

 

so, the Holy Name (Namaprabhu) does the initiating and giving of himself in the ultimate consideration.

 

Caitya-guru (Paramatma) is a partial representation of Bhagavan - Krishna.

[Guest guest]

You made remember an instruction from Srila Prabhupada. Sorry, no proof, as Srila Prabhupada spoke less than half his words while tape players were recording.

 

He told me my only possessions were my spiritual master and Krsna, and were both fully present in my japa beads (Harinama).

 

We are speaking of receiving Krsna (Consciousness). Of course, Krsna can give himself to anyone he pleases to do so, even Ajamila, who seemed, for all intents and purposes, in a rejecting mode. And also Krsna allows Himself to be given to others by his empowered representative. The spiritual master can give Krsna to others because (s)he has him to give. Krsna is owned by the spiritual master, so he can be given in this manner.

 

One who doesnt own Krsna by dint of their reciprocal relationship (RASA) certainly cannot give him to others. However, one less than mahabhagavata (i.e. cintamani) can also be the VEHICLE for Krsna to give Himself to others as well. The point is, he who SAVES is Krsna, the great devotee he empowers, and the others he may empower however he pleases, such as the madhyama and even kanistha adhikari.

 

Srila Prabhupada spoke of "guru-krpa", a special mercy of the spiritual master to go ahead and give the lifeline even to one who may, for various reasons, fail to qualify otherwise. Such as Bhakta Ron (Babhru knows of him, he may add if he likes). This brain-damaged individual stayed in the asrama for many years, and Srila Prabhupada accepted him as his initiated disciple even though it took him all day to even chant one round.

 

Point is, Krsna can give himself, a bonafide empowered representative can give Krsna, but no one else is able to give something he does not OWN.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani 0]

The pure devotees can give Krishna if Krishna consents.

 

Without the final approval of Krishna, nobody can give Krishna.

 

Krishna is autocrat.

 

the final decision is his alone.....

[krsna 3]

 

You made remember an instruction from Srila Prabhupada. Sorry, no proof, as Srila Prabhupada spoke less than half his words while tape players were recording.

 

He told me my only possessions were my spiritual master and Krsna, and were both fully present in my japa beads (Harinama).

 

We are speaking of receiving Krsna (Consciousness). Of course, Krsna can give himself to anyone he pleases to do so, even Ajamila, who seemed, for all intents and purposes, in a rejecting mode. And also Krsna allows Himself to be given to others by his empowered representative. The spiritual master can give Krsna to others because (s)he has him to give. Krsna is owned by the spiritual master, so he can be given in this manner.

 

One who doesnt own Krsna by dint of their reciprocal relationship (RASA) certainly cannot give him to others. However, one less than mahabhagavata (i.e. cintamani) can also be the VEHICLE for Krsna to give Himself to others as well. The point is, he who SAVES is Krsna, the great devotee he empowers, and the others he may empower however he pleases, such as the madhyama and even kanistha adhikari.

 

Srila Prabhupada spoke of "guru-krpa", a special mercy of the spiritual master to go ahead and give the lifeline even to one who may, for various reasons, fail to qualify otherwise. Such as Bhakta Ron (Babhru knows of him, he may add if he likes). This brain-damaged individual stayed in the asrama for many years, and Srila Prabhupada accepted him as his initiated disciple even though it took him all day to even chant one round.

 

Point is, Krsna can give himself, a bonafide empowered representative can give Krsna, but no one else is able to give something he does not OWN.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Krsna can give himself, a bonafide empowered representative can give Krsna, but no one else is able to give something he does not OWN.

[krsna 3]

In the final paragraph of his purport to Nectar of Instruction verse 5 His Divine Grace says:

“Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikārī Vaiṣṇava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaiṣṇavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī. A neophyte Vaiṣṇava or a Vaiṣṇava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.”

 

Unfortunately many people do not seek to find a highly advanced Guru but instead the accept someone who is popular or regarded as “advanced” within their region. Sometimes the disciple also thinks that by sadhana he can make advancement, or that by associating with many Vaishnavas he will get their blessings and make advancement. What then might happen, hypothetically speaking, if someone takes diksa from a kanistha Vaishnava who is doing a good imitation of being a Vaishnava on a higher level? Might the disciple later regret that he accepted the person who his friends said was “advanced”? Do things like this happen, ever?

 

<!-- end .comments-middle -->

<!-- end .comments-bottom --><!-- end .comments -->

<!-- end .comments-bottom -->

 

<!-- end .comments -->