RE:calculation of T.O.B/Placenta

[Guest guest]

The placenta is the piece of flesh richly laden with blood that feed the child.

The umbilical cord is attached to the placenta.

The placenta does not break but the detachment of the placenta is the final stage of delivery.

What breaks is the sac of thin tissue that encloses the baby.

When the sac breaks fluid comes out of the mother but the baby is still completely within the womb.

This breaking of the sac of water does not seem like a likely time of birth - the child may come out of the womb many hours after the water sac breaks.

Delivery of the placenta seems more logical.

This happens ten minutes after the child is born.

Once the placenta comes out - once it detaches from the wall of the uterus the pregnancy is finished.

It is advised in our scriptures that the cord from the nabhi be cut after half an hour to ensure that the child has received complete nourishment from the placenta.

The chord should then be cut by the father of the child as he gazes into his child's eyes.

If this is done any dosha relating to time of birth will be removed.

 

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Friday, February 23, 2007 5:35 AM

Re: RE:calculation of T.O.B/Placenta

 

 

Dear respected members

 

I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some time

back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to be

considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to support

his view.

 

Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me Placenta

is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the baby.When

it is broken,external influence effects.

 

Your learned views may be appreciated.

 

Regds

Pradeep

-- In , "sreeram srinivas"

<sreeram64 wrote:

>

> Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know that a

woman has

> conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle or

other

> related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

convenient that

> day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and hence,

taken as

> the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether to take

the time

> of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or when the

child is

> touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time variation

in such

> cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

>

> Our astro_classics have combinations for best "Garbadharan" and

not much

> research or case studies available on this, for the simple reason

that such

> discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette and

society

> norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is good

amount of

> literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

members in this

> groups to advice you further !!)

>

> If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our mythology,

the muhurta

> of an event is given more importance than individual horoscope.

Every

> muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions related to

it (

> without even considering the planetary positions ), this is done

based on

> the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is lost

and very

> very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not know if

any of the

> existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e. literature

on this is

> NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect the

importance of

> muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than planetary

based

> muhurtas which came much much later.

>

> It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping Goddess

Sita, was

> called something "Vinda", a result of which was destruction or

end of Lord

> Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

muhurta was

> determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

wrong ?? ). Brood

> over this and you will get a new revelation or understanding of

astrology

> timing.......

>

> Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing of the

great

> epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord Krishna

preponed the

> timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

call.....of war !!!

> Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros including

Great

> Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir Karna,

Chief

> Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

Krishna....etc.. If

> you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat { surely

NOT those

> Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion between

Great

> Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue of

completion of

> the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy still goes

i.e. 360

> or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the war was

also

> predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e. Kurushetra

for certain

> genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL there at

Kurushetra

> favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very interesting

astro_cryptic

> clues here for an interested student of astrology.......left to

each one's

> imagination to decipher the same......

>

> Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched few

things on

> mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though learned

Brahma Rishi

> Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord Ram's

family, but

> he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram & brothers in

the field

> of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and technique......

{ read

> between the lines - the original translations - great

astro_message is

> involved here }

>

> Some of the finest translations are available in telugu, but due

to modern

> education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good books

would be

> daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

>

> with regards,

> sreeram srinivas

> sreeram64

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

>

> [] On Behalf Of GYATHRI

PATANJOTHI

> Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> jyotish remedies

> calculation of T.O.B

>

>

>

> Dear Astrologers,

>

> I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an essential

element

> in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to believe that

there is a

> more accurate time, we should be looking into, because life was

given once

> our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the time we

were

> conceived could be the time that we should all be looking into.

> For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be conceived

on the

> month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery without

premature.

> According to other sources too, that babies in the womb would have

their

> first hearbeat after 4 months.

> Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living long

before we

> step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

clarification of a

> valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on the time

of birth.

>

> Regards,

> Gyathri

>

> .

>

> <http://geo./serv?

s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear respected members

 

I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some time

back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to be

considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to support

his view.

 

Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me Placenta

is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the baby.When

it is broken,external influence effects.

 

Your learned views may be appreciated.

 

Regds

Pradeep

-- In , "sreeram srinivas"

<sreeram64 wrote:

>

> Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know that a

woman has

> conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle or

other

> related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

convenient that

> day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and hence,

taken as

> the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether to take

the time

> of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or when the

child is

> touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time variation

in such

> cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

>

> Our astro_classics have combinations for best "Garbadharan" and

not much

> research or case studies available on this, for the simple reason

that such

> discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette and

society

> norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is good

amount of

> literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

members in this

> groups to advice you further !!)

>

> If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our mythology,

the muhurta

> of an event is given more importance than individual horoscope.

Every

> muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions related to

it (

> without even considering the planetary positions ), this is done

based on

> the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is lost

and very

> very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not know if

any of the

> existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e. literature

on this is

> NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect the

importance of

> muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than planetary

based

> muhurtas which came much much later.

>

> It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping Goddess

Sita, was

> called something "Vinda", a result of which was destruction or

end of Lord

> Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

muhurta was

> determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

wrong ?? ). Brood

> over this and you will get a new revelation or understanding of

astrology

> timing.......

>

> Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing of the

great

> epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord Krishna

preponed the

> timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

call.....of war !!!

> Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros including

Great

> Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir Karna,

Chief

> Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

Krishna....etc.. If

> you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat { surely

NOT those

> Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion between

Great

> Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue of

completion of

> the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy still goes

i.e. 360

> or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the war was

also

> predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e. Kurushetra

for certain

> genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL there at

Kurushetra

> favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very interesting

astro_cryptic

> clues here for an interested student of astrology.......left to

each one's

> imagination to decipher the same......

>

> Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched few

things on

> mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though learned

Brahma Rishi

> Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord Ram's

family, but

> he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram & brothers in

the field

> of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and technique......

{ read

> between the lines - the original translations - great

astro_message is

> involved here }

>

> Some of the finest translations are available in telugu, but due

to modern

> education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good books

would be

> daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

>

> with regards,

> sreeram srinivas

> sreeram64

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

>

> [] On Behalf Of GYATHRI

PATANJOTHI

> Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> jyotish remedies

> calculation of T.O.B

>

>

>

> Dear Astrologers,

>

> I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an essential

element

> in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to believe that

there is a

> more accurate time, we should be looking into, because life was

given once

> our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the time we

were

> conceived could be the time that we should all be looking into.

> For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be conceived

on the

> month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery without

premature.

> According to other sources too, that babies in the womb would have

their

> first hearbeat after 4 months.

> Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living long

before we

> step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

clarification of a

> valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on the time

of birth.

>

> Regards,

> Gyathri

>

> .

>

> <http://geo./serv?

s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 2/23/07, Venkat Machiraju <punditvenkat (AT) mts (DOT) net> wrote:

>

> The placenta is the piece of flesh richly laden with blood that feed the

> child.

> The umbilical cord is attached to the placenta.

> The placenta does not break but the detachment of the placenta is the

> final stage of delivery.

> What breaks is the sac of thin tissue that encloses the baby.

> When the sac breaks fluid comes out of the mother but the baby is still

> completely within the womb.

> This breaking of the sac of water does not seem like a likely time of

> birth - the child may come out of the womb many hours after the water sac

> breaks.

> Delivery of the placenta seems more logical.

> This happens ten minutes after the child is born.

> Once the placenta comes out - once it detaches from the wall of the uterus

> the pregnancy is finished.

> It is advised in our scriptures that the cord from the nabhi be cut after

> half an hour to ensure that the child has received complete nourishment from

> the placenta.

> The chord should then be cut by the father of the child as he gazes into

> his child's eyes.

> If this is done any dosha relating to time of birth will be removed.

 

 

 

Nice astro-obstetric treatise but I've the following questions:

 

1. What if the child is stillborn?

2. What if the umbilical cord isn't cut for as long as one hour after

freeing up the newborn's lungs?

3. What about Caesarean births?

 

I'd say the time of birth is when the child draws first breath on its own

after the whack on the back. If nothing else, each of the above questions

would at least then have an answer

 

Cheers,

 

Ramapriya

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep,

 

I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which does mention

that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled by human

action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth then the whole

basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his purva karma

may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always held the

opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of first intake

of breath and thus independent life should be considered as the time of

birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first intake of

breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that premise but

discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must remember

that it is the breath that is called Prana.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear respected members

>

> I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some time

> back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to be

> considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to support

> his view.

>

> Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me Placenta

> is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the baby.When

> it is broken,external influence effects.

>

> Your learned views may be appreciated.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

> -- In

> <%40>, "sreeram srinivas"

> <sreeram64 wrote:

> >

> > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know that a

> woman has

> > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle or

> other

> > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

> convenient that

> > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and hence,

> taken as

> > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether to take

> the time

> > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or when the

> child is

> > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time variation

> in such

> > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> >

> > Our astro_classics have combinations for best "Garbadharan" and

> not much

> > research or case studies available on this, for the simple reason

> that such

> > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette and

> society

> > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is good

> amount of

> > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> > translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

> members in this

> > groups to advice you further !!)

> >

> > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our mythology,

> the muhurta

> > of an event is given more importance than individual horoscope.

> Every

> > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions related to

> it (

> > without even considering the planetary positions ), this is done

> based on

> > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is lost

> and very

> > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not know if

> any of the

> > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e. literature

> on this is

> > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect the

> importance of

> > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than planetary

> based

> > muhurtas which came much much later.

> >

> > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping Goddess

> Sita, was

> > called something "Vinda", a result of which was destruction or

> end of Lord

> > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

> muhurta was

> > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> wrong ?? ). Brood

> > over this and you will get a new revelation or understanding of

> astrology

> > timing.......

> >

> > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing of the

> great

> > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord Krishna

> preponed the

> > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> call.....of war !!!

> > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros including

> Great

> > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir Karna,

> Chief

> > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> Krishna....etc.. If

> > you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat { surely

> NOT those

> > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion between

> Great

> > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue of

> completion of

> > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy still goes

> i.e. 360

> > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the war was

> also

> > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e. Kurushetra

> for certain

> > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL there at

> Kurushetra

> > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very interesting

> astro_cryptic

> > clues here for an interested student of astrology.......left to

> each one's

> > imagination to decipher the same......

> >

> > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched few

> things on

> > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though learned

> Brahma Rishi

> > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord Ram's

> family, but

> > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram & brothers in

> the field

> > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and technique......

> { read

> > between the lines - the original translations - great

> astro_message is

> > involved here }

> >

> > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu, but due

> to modern

> > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good books

> would be

> > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

> >

> > with regards,

> > sreeram srinivas

> > sreeram64

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> >

> <%40>

> > [

> <%40>] On Behalf Of GYATHRI

> PATANJOTHI

> > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > jyotish remedies

> > calculation of T.O.B

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Astrologers,

> >

> > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an essential

> element

> > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to believe that

> there is a

> > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because life was

> given once

> > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the time we

> were

> > conceived could be the time that we should all be looking into.

> > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be conceived

> on the

> > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery without

> premature.

> > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb would have

> their

> > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living long

> before we

> > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> clarification of a

> > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on the time

> of birth.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Gyathri

> >

> > .

> >

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr.Venkat

 

Thanks for the mail.Though what you have said is technically

correct,in reality placenta includes the amniotic sac.Doctor's at the

time of delivery,do refer to opening or breaking of the bag(at will),

as opening of placenta - i was present in the labour room during two

deliveries and was fortunate to cut the umbilical chord.

 

Regds

Pradeep

, "D Ramapriya" <ramapriya.d

wrote:

>

> On 2/23/07, Venkat Machiraju <punditvenkat wrote:

> >

> > The placenta is the piece of flesh richly laden with blood that

feed the

> > child.

> > The umbilical cord is attached to the placenta.

> > The placenta does not break but the detachment of the placenta is

the

> > final stage of delivery.

> > What breaks is the sac of thin tissue that encloses the baby.

> > When the sac breaks fluid comes out of the mother but the baby is

still

> > completely within the womb.

> > This breaking of the sac of water does not seem like a likely

time of

> > birth - the child may come out of the womb many hours after the

water sac

> > breaks.

> > Delivery of the placenta seems more logical.

> > This happens ten minutes after the child is born.

> > Once the placenta comes out - once it detaches from the wall of

the uterus

> > the pregnancy is finished.

> > It is advised in our scriptures that the cord from the nabhi be

cut after

> > half an hour to ensure that the child has received complete

nourishment from

> > the placenta.

> > The chord should then be cut by the father of the child as he

gazes into

> > his child's eyes.

> > If this is done any dosha relating to time of birth will be

removed.

>

>

>

> Nice astro-obstetric treatise but I've the following questions:

>

> 1. What if the child is stillborn?

> 2. What if the umbilical cord isn't cut for as long as one hour

after

> freeing up the newborn's lungs?

> 3. What about Caesarean births?

>

> I'd say the time of birth is when the child draws first breath on

its own

> after the whack on the back. If nothing else, each of the above

questions

> would at least then have an answer

>

> Cheers,

>

> Ramapriya

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

 

Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis view

regarding death and stop of breath.

At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical chord or

detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord connects

the mother and baby through placenta.

 

Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel oxygen

supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

 

Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence it

cannot point to a birth time.

 

It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected until

cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my curiousity

awake.

 

Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

 

Respect

Pradeep

 

 

 

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which does

mention

> that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled by

human

> action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth then the

whole

> basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his purva

karma

> may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always held the

> opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of first

intake

> of breath and thus independent life should be considered as the

time of

> birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first intake

of

> breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that premise but

> discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

remember

> that it is the breath that is called Prana.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear respected members

> >

> > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some time

> > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to be

> > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to support

> > his view.

> >

> > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

Placenta

> > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

baby.When

> > it is broken,external influence effects.

> >

> > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> > -- In

> > <%40>, "sreeram srinivas"

> > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know that a

> > woman has

> > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle or

> > other

> > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

> > convenient that

> > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and hence,

> > taken as

> > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether to take

> > the time

> > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or when

the

> > child is

> > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

variation

> > in such

> > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > >

> > > Our astro_classics have combinations for best "Garbadharan" and

> > not much

> > > research or case studies available on this, for the simple

reason

> > that such

> > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette and

> > society

> > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is good

> > amount of

> > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> > > translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

> > members in this

> > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > >

> > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our mythology,

> > the muhurta

> > > of an event is given more importance than individual horoscope.

> > Every

> > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions related

to

> > it (

> > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this is done

> > based on

> > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is lost

> > and very

> > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not know if

> > any of the

> > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e. literature

> > on this is

> > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect the

> > importance of

> > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than planetary

> > based

> > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > >

> > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping Goddess

> > Sita, was

> > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was destruction or

> > end of Lord

> > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

> > muhurta was

> > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > over this and you will get a new revelation or understanding of

> > astrology

> > > timing.......

> > >

> > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing of

the

> > great

> > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord Krishna

> > preponed the

> > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > call.....of war !!!

> > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros including

> > Great

> > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir Karna,

> > Chief

> > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat {

surely

> > NOT those

> > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion between

> > Great

> > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue of

> > completion of

> > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy still goes

> > i.e. 360

> > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the war was

> > also

> > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e. Kurushetra

> > for certain

> > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL there at

> > Kurushetra

> > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very interesting

> > astro_cryptic

> > > clues here for an interested student of astrology.......left to

> > each one's

> > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > >

> > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched few

> > things on

> > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though learned

> > Brahma Rishi

> > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord Ram's

> > family, but

> > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram & brothers

in

> > the field

> > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

technique......

> > { read

> > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > astro_message is

> > > involved here }

> > >

> > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu, but due

> > to modern

> > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good

books

> > would be

> > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

> > >

> > > with regards,

> > > sreeram srinivas

> > > sreeram64@

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > >

> > <%40>

> > > [

> > <%40>] On Behalf Of GYATHRI

> > PATANJOTHI

> > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > jyotish remedies

> > > calculation of T.O.B

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Astrologers,

> > >

> > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

essential

> > element

> > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to believe

that

> > there is a

> > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because life was

> > given once

> > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the time

we

> > were

> > > conceived could be the time that we should all be looking into.

> > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

conceived

> > on the

> > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery without

> > premature.

> > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb would

have

> > their

> > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living long

> > before we

> > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > clarification of a

> > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on the

time

> > of birth.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Gyathri

> > >

> > > .

> > >

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep,

 

In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room and there

was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical cord is

attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away from the

mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of cutting

of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth then one

can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that vedic

astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of birth of a baby.

 

As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized hospitals

but many babies are born where no such provision is there and even in

the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed and it is

made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a problem, use of

artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless the baby is

capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced in the

lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to comment

on this.

 

Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a different

view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a bit

about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals even in

breach presentation.

 

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

 

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

>

> Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis view

> regarding death and stop of breath.

> At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical chord or

> detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord connects

> the mother and baby through placenta.

>

> Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel oxygen

> supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

>

> Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence it

> cannot point to a birth time.

>

> It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected until

> cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my curiousity

> awake.

>

> Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which does

> mention

> > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled by

> human

> > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth then the

> whole

> > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his purva

> karma

> > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always held the

> > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of first

> intake

> > of breath and thus independent life should be considered as the

> time of

> > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first intake

> of

> > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that premise but

> > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> remember

> > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear respected members

> > >

> > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some time

> > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to be

> > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to support

> > > his view.

> > >

> > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

> Placenta

> > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

> baby.When

> > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > >

> > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, "sreeram srinivas"

> > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know that a

> > > woman has

> > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle or

> > > other

> > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

> > > convenient that

> > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and hence,

> > > taken as

> > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether to take

> > > the time

> > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or when

> the

> > > child is

> > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> variation

> > > in such

> > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > >

> > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for best "Garbadharan" and

> > > not much

> > > > research or case studies available on this, for the simple

> reason

> > > that such

> > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette and

> > > society

> > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is good

> > > amount of

> > > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

> > > members in this

> > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > >

> > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our mythology,

> > > the muhurta

> > > > of an event is given more importance than individual horoscope.

> > > Every

> > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions related

> to

> > > it (

> > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this is done

> > > based on

> > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is lost

> > > and very

> > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not know if

> > > any of the

> > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e. literature

> > > on this is

> > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect the

> > > importance of

> > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than planetary

> > > based

> > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > >

> > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping Goddess

> > > Sita, was

> > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was destruction or

> > > end of Lord

> > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

> > > muhurta was

> > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or understanding of

> > > astrology

> > > > timing.......

> > > >

> > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing of

> the

> > > great

> > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord Krishna

> > > preponed the

> > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros including

> > > Great

> > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir Karna,

> > > Chief

> > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat {

> surely

> > > NOT those

> > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion between

> > > Great

> > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue of

> > > completion of

> > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy still goes

> > > i.e. 360

> > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the war was

> > > also

> > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e. Kurushetra

> > > for certain

> > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL there at

> > > Kurushetra

> > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very interesting

> > > astro_cryptic

> > > > clues here for an interested student of astrology.......left to

> > > each one's

> > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > >

> > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched few

> > > things on

> > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though learned

> > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord Ram's

> > > family, but

> > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram & brothers

> in

> > > the field

> > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> technique......

> > > { read

> > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > astro_message is

> > > > involved here }

> > > >

> > > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu, but due

> > > to modern

> > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good

> books

> > > would be

> > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

> > > >

> > > > with regards,

> > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > sreeram64@

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > [

> <%40>

> > > <%40>] On Behalf Of GYATHRI

> > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > >

> > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

> essential

> > > element

> > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to believe

> that

> > > there is a

> > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because life was

> > > given once

> > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the time

> we

> > > were

> > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be looking into.

> > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> conceived

> > > on the

> > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery without

> > > premature.

> > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb would

> have

> > > their

> > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living long

> > > before we

> > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > clarification of a

> > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on the

> time

> > > of birth.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Gyathri

> > > >

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

We are not concerend with oxygen supply once the child has left the womb.

The cord is kept on for nutrient purposes.

I am saying that once the placenta - the peic of flesh that attachs the cord to the uterus - is delivered the pregnancy is finished completely.

I would personally feel that once the child is out of the womb the birth is complete.

 

some women deliver the placenta up to fifteen minutes after the child.

If we consider birth to be on completion of the delivery of the chold from the womb we may be delaying the birth time.\

Logically, once the child is out of the womb he or she is born right.

I would say the whole body.

that is what birht is be ouof once space and in another.

Being out of the womb and in the world

this is birth.

We took the time of birht as the exact time the child was out of my body.

Not the time I delivered the placenta.

By the teim the placenta is out we have alreadyall held the baby and washed the baby etc.

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Monday, February 26, 2007 7:53 AM

Re: RE:calculation of T.O.B/Placenta

 

 

Dear Ramapriya ji

 

Thanks for the free spell check:-).Yes i did mean the natural inflow.

Me too not an expert to comment,but have heard that there used to be

difference in opinion regarding when to cut the cord.How long does

the flow last,is safe to prolong and vice-versa.

 

Anyways,during my experience it was not delayed.

 

Yes once the flow ceases, the cord can stay with the baby like a

nail or hair,save for infection dangers,though it will eventually

fall off on its own,like an old leaf.

 

Yes on one side it can very well be just a ceremony or samskara as

you have mentioned.But the parallel oxygen supply keeping the baby

online(connected) to the mother is the doubt left with.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

-- In , "D Ramapriya" <ramapriya.d

wrote:

>

> On 2/25/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> >

> > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

oxygen

> > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

>

>

>

> Dear Sri Pradeep,

>

> I'm no obstetrician but from what I've heard, when the placenta

comes

> unseated, the nutrient flow lasts for probably a minute or so but

that's

> about it. A person can live his life with the umbilical cord [not

chord ]

> and placenta connected to and hanging around him. His schoolmates

will have

> a laughing fit seeing the atrophied appendage but the point is that

> one canlive with the cord.

>

> Cutting of the cord is about as significant as lighting of the

Olympic fire

> is to sport.

>

> Ramapriya

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 2/25/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote:

>

>

> Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel oxygen

> supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

 

 

 

Dear Sri Pradeep,

 

I'm no obstetrician but from what I've heard, when the placenta comes

unseated, the nutrient flow lasts for probably a minute or so but that's

about it. A person can live his life with the umbilical cord [not chord ]

and placenta connected to and hanging around him. His schoolmates will have

a laughing fit seeing the atrophied appendage but the point is that

one canlive with the cord.

 

Cutting of the cord is about as significant as lighting of the Olympic fire

is to sport.

 

Ramapriya

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

 

You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour room

regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

deliveries.

 

But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before cutting of

the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

 

The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural one

coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

 

Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

 

Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

 

As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

such a consideration is present in classics.

 

Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

-- In , Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room and

there

> was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

cord is

> attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

from the

> mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

cutting

> of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth then

one

> can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that vedic

> astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of birth

of a baby.

>

> As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

hospitals

> but many babies are born where no such provision is there and even

in

> the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed and

it is

> made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a problem,

use of

> artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless the

baby is

> capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced in

the

> lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

comment

> on this.

>

> Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

different

> view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

bit

> about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals even

in

> breach presentation.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> >

> > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis

view

> > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

chord or

> > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

connects

> > the mother and baby through placenta.

> >

> > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

oxygen

> > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> >

> > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence it

> > cannot point to a birth time.

> >

> > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

until

> > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my curiousity

> > awake.

> >

> > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which does

> > mention

> > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled by

> > human

> > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth then

the

> > whole

> > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

purva

> > karma

> > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always held

the

> > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

first

> > intake

> > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered as the

> > time of

> > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first

intake

> > of

> > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

premise but

> > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > remember

> > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear respected members

> > > >

> > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some

time

> > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to

be

> > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

support

> > > > his view.

> > > >

> > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

> > Placenta

> > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

> > baby.When

> > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > >

> > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > > -- In

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, "sreeram srinivas"

> > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

that a

> > > > woman has

> > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle

or

> > > > other

> > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

> > > > convenient that

> > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and

hence,

> > > > taken as

> > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether

to take

> > > > the time

> > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or

when

> > the

> > > > child is

> > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > variation

> > > > in such

> > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > >

> > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > not much

> > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the simple

> > reason

> > > > that such

> > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette

and

> > > > society

> > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is

good

> > > > amount of

> > > > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

> > > > members in this

> > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > >

> > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

mythology,

> > > > the muhurta

> > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

horoscope.

> > > > Every

> > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

related

> > to

> > > > it (

> > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this

is done

> > > > based on

> > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is

lost

> > > > and very

> > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

know if

> > > > any of the

> > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

literature

> > > > on this is

> > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect

the

> > > > importance of

> > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

planetary

> > > > based

> > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

Goddess

> > > > Sita, was

> > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

destruction or

> > > > end of Lord

> > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

> > > > muhurta was

> > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

understanding of

> > > > astrology

> > > > > timing.......

> > > > >

> > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing

of

> > the

> > > > great

> > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

Krishna

> > > > preponed the

> > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

including

> > > > Great

> > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

Karna,

> > > > Chief

> > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat {

> > surely

> > > > NOT those

> > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

between

> > > > Great

> > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue

of

> > > > completion of

> > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

still goes

> > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

war was

> > > > also

> > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

Kurushetra

> > > > for certain

> > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

there at

> > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

interesting

> > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > clues here for an interested student of

astrology.......left to

> > > > each one's

> > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > >

> > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched

few

> > > > things on

> > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

learned

> > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord

Ram's

> > > > family, but

> > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

brothers

> > in

> > > > the field

> > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > technique......

> > > > { read

> > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > astro_message is

> > > > > involved here }

> > > > >

> > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu,

but due

> > > > to modern

> > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good

> > books

> > > > would be

> > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

> > > > >

> > > > > with regards,

> > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > _____

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > [

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

GYATHRI

> > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

> > essential

> > > > element

> > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

believe

> > that

> > > > there is a

> > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

life was

> > > > given once

> > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the

time

> > we

> > > > were

> > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be looking

into.

> > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > conceived

> > > > on the

> > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

without

> > > > premature.

> > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

would

> > have

> > > > their

> > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living

long

> > > > before we

> > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > clarification of a

> > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on

the

> > time

> > > > of birth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Gyathri

> > > > >

> > > > > .

> > > > >

> > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > >

=39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramapriya ji

 

Thanks for the free spell check:-).Yes i did mean the natural inflow.

Me too not an expert to comment,but have heard that there used to be

difference in opinion regarding when to cut the cord.How long does

the flow last,is safe to prolong and vice-versa.

 

Anyways,during my experience it was not delayed.

 

Yes once the flow ceases, the cord can stay with the baby like a

nail or hair,save for infection dangers,though it will eventually

fall off on its own,like an old leaf.

 

Yes on one side it can very well be just a ceremony or samskara as

you have mentioned.But the parallel oxygen supply keeping the baby

online(connected) to the mother is the doubt left with.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

-- In , "D Ramapriya" <ramapriya.d

wrote:

>

> On 2/25/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> >

> > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

oxygen

> > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

>

>

>

> Dear Sri Pradeep,

>

> I'm no obstetrician but from what I've heard, when the placenta

comes

> unseated, the nutrient flow lasts for probably a minute or so but

that's

> about it. A person can live his life with the umbilical cord [not

chord ]

> and placenta connected to and hanging around him. His schoolmates

will have

> a laughing fit seeing the atrophied appendage but the point is that

> one canlive with the cord.

>

> Cutting of the cord is about as significant as lighting of the

Olympic fire

> is to sport.

>

> Ramapriya

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 2/26/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote:

>

>

> Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

>

 

Especially on the astrology Groups... right, Pradeep?

 

Ramapriya

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep,

 

I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice for

fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of the

mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut the

cord. I could not state anything about this.

 

The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of rewarding the

midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her child.

But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I remember

in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

acquaintances when a child was born.

 

I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It is

filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human beings

and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend to eat

the placenta.

 

Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut from the

time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting of the

cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of an

individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish edifice

stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his purva

Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the case.

 

But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group explains

the process of human birth and explain about timing of which action can

be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled when a

child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

 

There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and they

relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the shastra

was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not want

to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret historical

facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

 

As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view on the

subject.

 

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

 

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour room

> regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> deliveries.

>

> But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before cutting of

> the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

>

> The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural one

> coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

>

> Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

>

> Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

>

> As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> such a consideration is present in classics.

>

> Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> -- In

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room and

> there

> > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> cord is

> > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> from the

> > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> cutting

> > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth then

> one

> > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that vedic

> > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of birth

> of a baby.

> >

> > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> hospitals

> > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and even

> in

> > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed and

> it is

> > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a problem,

> use of

> > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless the

> baby is

> > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced in

> the

> > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> comment

> > on this.

> >

> > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> different

> > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> bit

> > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals even

> in

> > breach presentation.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > >

> > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis

> view

> > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> chord or

> > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> connects

> > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > >

> > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

> oxygen

> > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > >

> > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence it

> > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > >

> > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> until

> > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my curiousity

> > > awake.

> > >

> > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > >

> > > Respect

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which does

> > > mention

> > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled by

> > > human

> > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth then

> the

> > > whole

> > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> purva

> > > karma

> > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always held

> the

> > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> first

> > > intake

> > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered as the

> > > time of

> > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first

> intake

> > > of

> > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> premise but

> > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > remember

> > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > >

> > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some

> time

> > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to

> be

> > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> support

> > > > > his view.

> > > > >

> > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

> > > Placenta

> > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

> > > baby.When

> > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, "sreeram srinivas"

> > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> that a

> > > > > woman has

> > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle

> or

> > > > > other

> > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

> > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and

> hence,

> > > > > taken as

> > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether

> to take

> > > > > the time

> > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or

> when

> > > the

> > > > > child is

> > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > variation

> > > > > in such

> > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > not much

> > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the simple

> > > reason

> > > > > that such

> > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette

> and

> > > > > society

> > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is

> good

> > > > > amount of

> > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

> > > > > members in this

> > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> mythology,

> > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> horoscope.

> > > > > Every

> > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> related

> > > to

> > > > > it (

> > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this

> is done

> > > > > based on

> > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is

> lost

> > > > > and very

> > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> know if

> > > > > any of the

> > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> literature

> > > > > on this is

> > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect

> the

> > > > > importance of

> > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> planetary

> > > > > based

> > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> Goddess

> > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> destruction or

> > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

> > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> understanding of

> > > > > astrology

> > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing

> of

> > > the

> > > > > great

> > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> Krishna

> > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> including

> > > > > Great

> > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> Karna,

> > > > > Chief

> > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat {

> > > surely

> > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> between

> > > > > Great

> > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue

> of

> > > > > completion of

> > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> still goes

> > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> war was

> > > > > also

> > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> Kurushetra

> > > > > for certain

> > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> there at

> > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> interesting

> > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> astrology.......left to

> > > > > each one's

> > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched

> few

> > > > > things on

> > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> learned

> > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord

> Ram's

> > > > > family, but

> > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> brothers

> > > in

> > > > > the field

> > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > technique......

> > > > > { read

> > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu,

> but due

> > > > > to modern

> > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good

> > > books

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > _____

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > [

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> GYATHRI

> > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

> > > essential

> > > > > element

> > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> believe

> > > that

> > > > > there is a

> > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> life was

> > > > > given once

> > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the

> time

> > > we

> > > > > were

> > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be looking

> into.

> > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > conceived

> > > > > on the

> > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> without

> > > > > premature.

> > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> would

> > > have

> > > > > their

> > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living

> long

> > > > > before we

> > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on

> the

> > > time

> > > > > of birth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > >

> =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar,

 

Even Krushanji had taught me to take the time of first cry as the time

when the baby is born for calculating a chart.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice for

> fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of the

> mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut the

> cord. I could not state anything about this.

>

> The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of rewarding the

> midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her child.

> But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I remember

> in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> acquaintances when a child was born.

>

> I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It is

> filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

beings

> and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend to

eat

> the placenta.

>

> Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut from the

> time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting of the

> cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of an

> individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish edifice

> stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

purva

> Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the case.

>

> But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

explains

> the process of human birth and explain about timing of which action can

> be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled when a

> child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

>

> There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and they

> relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the shastra

> was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not want

> to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret historical

> facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

>

> As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view on

the

> subject.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

>

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour room

> > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > deliveries.

> >

> > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before cutting of

> > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> >

> > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural one

> > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> >

> > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> >

> > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> >

> > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > such a consideration is present in classics.

> >

> > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > -- In

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room and

> > there

> > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > cord is

> > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > from the

> > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > cutting

> > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth then

> > one

> > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that vedic

> > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of birth

> > of a baby.

> > >

> > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > hospitals

> > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and even

> > in

> > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed and

> > it is

> > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a problem,

> > use of

> > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless the

> > baby is

> > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced in

> > the

> > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > comment

> > > on this.

> > >

> > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > different

> > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > bit

> > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals even

> > in

> > > breach presentation.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis

> > view

> > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > chord or

> > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > connects

> > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > >

> > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

> > oxygen

> > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > >

> > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence it

> > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > >

> > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > until

> > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my curiousity

> > > > awake.

> > > >

> > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which does

> > > > mention

> > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled by

> > > > human

> > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth then

> > the

> > > > whole

> > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > purva

> > > > karma

> > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always held

> > the

> > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > first

> > > > intake

> > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered as the

> > > > time of

> > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first

> > intake

> > > > of

> > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > premise but

> > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > remember

> > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some

> > time

> > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to

> > be

> > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > support

> > > > > > his view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

> > > > Placenta

> > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

> > > > baby.When

> > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > -- In

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram srinivas"

> > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > that a

> > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle

> > or

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

> > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and

> > hence,

> > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether

> > to take

> > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or

> > when

> > > > the

> > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > variation

> > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the simple

> > > > reason

> > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette

> > and

> > > > > > society

> > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is

> > good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

> > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > mythology,

> > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > horoscope.

> > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > related

> > > > to

> > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this

> > is done

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is

> > lost

> > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > know if

> > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > literature

> > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect

> > the

> > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > planetary

> > > > > > based

> > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > Goddess

> > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > destruction or

> > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

> > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > understanding of

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > Krishna

> > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > including

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > Karna,

> > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat {

> > > > surely

> > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > between

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue

> > of

> > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > still goes

> > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > war was

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > Kurushetra

> > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > there at

> > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > interesting

> > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched

> > few

> > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > learned

> > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord

> > Ram's

> > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > brothers

> > > > in

> > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > technique......

> > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu,

> > but due

> > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good

> > > > books

> > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > [

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > GYATHRI

> > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

> > > > essential

> > > > > > element

> > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > believe

> > > > that

> > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > life was

> > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the

> > time

> > > > we

> > > > > > were

> > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be looking

> > into.

> > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > conceived

> > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > without

> > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > would

> > > > have

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living

> > long

> > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on

> > the

> > > > time

> > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > >

> > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrasekharji,

 

Even in India they have started what the westerners have long been

doing.Few months back one of my wifes cousin delivered and the

husband was present in deliver room (OT) assisting in getting water

too, to even clean the stomache (Caserian Operation) in one of the

best hospitals in Bombay, only visited by the top shots and

Politicians .

 

In this same case we see the human factor being discounted in

deciding the time of birth, and the destiny coming forward to

come in play. They had decided a partcular Lagna for the child birth

after consulting best pundits in Rajasthan, but The Gyno Doctor came

in two hours late, thus shifting the Lagna, as the OT was not free

before. So its not easy for Man to decide the birth,unless it is pre-

written in the childs fate to get birth at the time decided by the

parents.

 

But then who can decide with firmness that this was written in such

and such case, in the childs chart. One can only say after the

incident has happened. And no sense or proof of talking after

the birth has taken place.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice

for

> fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of

the

> mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut

the

> cord. I could not state anything about this.

>

> The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of rewarding

the

> midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her

child.

> But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I

remember

> in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> acquaintances when a child was born.

>

> I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It

is

> filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

beings

> and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend

to eat

> the placenta.

>

> Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut from

the

> time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting of

the

> cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of

an

> individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish edifice

> stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

purva

> Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the case.

>

> But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

explains

> the process of human birth and explain about timing of which action

can

> be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled

when a

> child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

>

> There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and

they

> relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the

shastra

> was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not

want

> to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

historical

> facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

>

> As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view

on the

> subject.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

>

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour

room

> > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > deliveries.

> >

> > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before cutting

of

> > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> >

> > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural

one

> > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> >

> > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> >

> > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> >

> > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > such a consideration is present in classics.

> >

> > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > -- In

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room

and

> > there

> > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > cord is

> > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > from the

> > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > cutting

> > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth

then

> > one

> > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that

vedic

> > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of

birth

> > of a baby.

> > >

> > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > hospitals

> > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and

even

> > in

> > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed

and

> > it is

> > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a

problem,

> > use of

> > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless the

> > baby is

> > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced

in

> > the

> > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > comment

> > > on this.

> > >

> > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > different

> > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > bit

> > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals

even

> > in

> > > breach presentation.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis

> > view

> > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > chord or

> > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > connects

> > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > >

> > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother

and

> > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

> > oxygen

> > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > >

> > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence

it

> > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > >

> > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > until

> > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my

curiousity

> > > > awake.

> > > >

> > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which

does

> > > > mention

> > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled

by

> > > > human

> > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth

then

> > the

> > > > whole

> > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > purva

> > > > karma

> > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always

held

> > the

> > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > first

> > > > intake

> > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered as

the

> > > > time of

> > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first

> > intake

> > > > of

> > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > premise but

> > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > remember

> > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some

> > time

> > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is

to

> > be

> > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > support

> > > > > > his view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

> > > > Placenta

> > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

> > > > baby.When

> > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > -- In

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram

srinivas"

> > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > that a

> > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual

cycle

> > or

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found

it

> > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record

and

> > hence,

> > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether

> > to take

> > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or

> > when

> > > > the

> > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > variation

> > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the

simple

> > > > reason

> > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette

> > and

> > > > > > society

> > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There

is

> > good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original

and

> > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly

qualified

> > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > mythology,

> > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > horoscope.

> > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > related

> > > > to

> > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this

> > is done

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is

> > lost

> > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > know if

> > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > literature

> > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect

> > the

> > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > planetary

> > > > > > based

> > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > Goddess

> > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > destruction or

> > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya,

the

> > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > understanding of

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original

timing

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > Krishna

> > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > including

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > Karna,

> > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

Mahabharat {

> > > > surely

> > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > between

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the

issue

> > of

> > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > still goes

> > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > war was

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > Kurushetra

> > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > there at

> > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > interesting

> > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched

> > few

> > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > learned

> > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of

Lord

> > Ram's

> > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > brothers

> > > > in

> > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > technique......

> > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu,

> > but due

> > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those

good

> > > > books

> > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in

Telugu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > [

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > GYATHRI

> > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

> > > > essential

> > > > > > element

> > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > believe

> > > > that

> > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > life was

> > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that

the

> > time

> > > > we

> > > > > > were

> > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be

looking

> > into.

> > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > conceived

> > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > without

> > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > would

> > > > have

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been

living

> > long

> > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based

on

> > the

> > > > time

> > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > >

> > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar,

Being the mother of a western OB/GYN, I have discussed with him many times the importancee of EXACT birth time records and have quizzed him on how this "procedure" of recording the time is carried out ----- I will make a point of addressing this again with him ---- but rest assured that in the U.S.,there is little precision and no consistency in this process!

Because of my study and knowledge (limited) of Jyotish, my son has respect (and curiousity) about this ancient wisdom and he recognizes it's credibility. Interestingly he recently mentioned a birth earlier that day that required an emergencyC-section --- the surgery was rushed and there was not even time for normal emergency sterile preps because the baby's monitored heart rate indicated great and sudden distress ---- my son was extremely fearful and expected the baby to be in poor condition, however much to his delight, the baby was very good and above average" alertness, etc. Because of some recent study and observance, I was aware of the time that Saturn would be precisely on the ascendant and I inquired if this was the time of the emergency and my son confirmed that this was indeed the time!! I briefly described the issue of Saturn being on the ascendant ---- and mentioned that this time would slowly move move forward each day and further suggested that he might not schedule "routine" c-sections during this time.. . so very recently, (to my delight) he asked me what was the current time of Saturn being on the ascendant! I mostly based my "caution" of this daily occurance of Saturn being on the ascendending degree on my own knowledge and personal experience with Saturn --- in my own chart, Saturn at 28:00 Cancer - 12 House and the difficulty involved in my own birth. However, my knowledge and wisdom is limited!!! Obviously in my own birth and the aforementioned "emergency" birth the babies were fine!

I would be interested in learned opinions on what configuerations with ascending degrees gives best support for successful birth process for both mother and child!!

My son has a very interesting chart --- he is indeed a beautiful person and it seems to me his chart is clear as a bell that he is absolutely carrying out the design in his chart! Once I furnished his birth details to my Jyotish study group without providing any info and until I revealed his occcupation, many thought he was a "ladies' man". He is in fact a devoted husband and father. He loves his work and of course adores and has great respect for women! If there is interest, I will provide his birth details.

J M C

 

 

Original Message---

 

Bhaskar

 

Monday, February 26, 2007 1:19 PM

Re: RE:calculation of T.O.B/Placenta

 

 

Chandrasekharji,

 

Even in India they have started what the westerners have long been

doing.Few months back one of my wifes cousin delivered and the

husband was present in deliver room (OT) assisting in getting water

too, to even clean the stomache (Caserian Operation) in one of the

best hospitals in Bombay, only visited by the top shots and

Politicians .

 

In this same case we see the human factor being discounted in

deciding the time of birth, and the destiny coming forward to

come in play. They had decided a partcular Lagna for the child birth

after consulting best pundits in Rajasthan, but The Gyno Doctor came

in two hours late, thus shifting the Lagna, as the OT was not free

before. So its not easy for Man to decide the birth,unless it is pre-

written in the childs fate to get birth at the time decided by the

parents.

 

But then who can decide with firmness that this was written in such

and such case, in the childs chart. One can only say after the

incident has happened. And no sense or proof of talking after

the birth has taken place.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice

for

> fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of

the

> mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut

the

> cord. I could not state anything about this.

>

> The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of rewarding

the

> midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her

child.

> But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I

remember

> in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> acquaintances when a child was born.

>

> I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It

is

> filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

beings

> and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend

to eat

> the placenta.

>

> Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut from

the

> time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting of

the

> cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of

an

> individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish edifice

> stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

purva

> Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the case.

>

> But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

explains

> the process of human birth and explain about timing of which action

can

> be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled

when a

> child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

>

> There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and

they

> relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the

shastra

> was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not

want

> to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

historical

> facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

>

> As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view

on the

> subject.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

>

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour

room

> > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > deliveries.

> >

> > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before cutting

of

> > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> >

> > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural

one

> > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> >

> > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> >

> > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> >

> > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > such a consideration is present in classics.

> >

> > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > -- In

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room

and

> > there

> > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > cord is

> > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > from the

> > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > cutting

> > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth

then

> > one

> > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that

vedic

> > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of

birth

> > of a baby.

> > >

> > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > hospitals

> > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and

even

> > in

> > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed

and

> > it is

> > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a

problem,

> > use of

> > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless the

> > baby is

> > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced

in

> > the

> > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > comment

> > > on this.

> > >

> > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > different

> > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > bit

> > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals

even

> > in

> > > breach presentation.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis

> > view

> > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > chord or

> > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > connects

> > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > >

> > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother

and

> > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

> > oxygen

> > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > >

> > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence

it

> > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > >

> > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > until

> > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my

curiousity

> > > > awake.

> > > >

> > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which

does

> > > > mention

> > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled

by

> > > > human

> > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth

then

> > the

> > > > whole

> > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > purva

> > > > karma

> > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always

held

> > the

> > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > first

> > > > intake

> > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered as

the

> > > > time of

> > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first

> > intake

> > > > of

> > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > premise but

> > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > remember

> > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some

> > time

> > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is

to

> > be

> > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > support

> > > > > > his view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

> > > > Placenta

> > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

> > > > baby.When

> > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > -- In

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram

srinivas"

> > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > that a

> > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual

cycle

> > or

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found

it

> > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record

and

> > hence,

> > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether

> > to take

> > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or

> > when

> > > > the

> > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > variation

> > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the

simple

> > > > reason

> > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette

> > and

> > > > > > society

> > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There

is

> > good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original

and

> > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly

qualified

> > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > mythology,

> > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > horoscope.

> > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > related

> > > > to

> > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this

> > is done

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is

> > lost

> > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > know if

> > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > literature

> > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect

> > the

> > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > planetary

> > > > > > based

> > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > Goddess

> > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > destruction or

> > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya,

the

> > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > understanding of

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original

timing

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > Krishna

> > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > including

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > Karna,

> > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

Mahabharat {

> > > > surely

> > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > between

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the

issue

> > of

> > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > still goes

> > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > war was

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > Kurushetra

> > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > there at

> > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > interesting

> > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched

> > few

> > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > learned

> > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of

Lord

> > Ram's

> > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > brothers

> > > > in

> > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > technique......

> > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu,

> > but due

> > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those

good

> > > > books

> > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in

Telugu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > [

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > GYATHRI

> > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

> > > > essential

> > > > > > element

> > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > believe

> > > > that

> > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > life was

> > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that

the

> > time

> > > > we

> > > > > > were

> > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be

looking

> > into.

> > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > conceived

> > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > without

> > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > would

> > > > have

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been

living

> > long

> > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based

on

> > the

> > > > time

> > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > >

> > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

>If there is interest, I will provide his birth details.

 

Joyce,

 

Please do. It will be useful for vocational guidance.

 

--Radha S.

[Guest guest]

Dear Joyce,

 

That was interesting reading.

For a hassle free birth the time of birth of course

should have a good ascendant, .

Moon should not be in the 5th sign of the

Mothers chart in transit on the day of birth.

Saturn as a Lord of Ascendant is very good more so

if Acquarius ascendant.

To choose a good ascendant for the birth,

one may choose a fixed Sign like Leo

with Sun present in 1st House ,Moon

is strong, the other 2 planets

which make or break a man viz. Jupiter

and Saturn are placed favourably.

Or one may choose a Saggitarius

ascendant with Jupiter in Ascendant etc.

But above can happen only in case of

Surgical assistance for Births, and with

help of Destiny,otherwise human choice may

not be met with fructifications.

 

A child can also be Made to order if

all things go fine,with the blessings

of the Almighty, in case of Natural

births too,without

surgical aids.

 

For naturally giving birth to a child who would

be having good Sun, Jupiter or Saturn etc. in

his chart, one should have conception at

proper pre-destined time.

 

Normally it takes 273 days or 39 weeks

(Maximum 36 to 42 weeks time for pregnancy

and eventual birth) . So one may check the Ephemeris

positions of the slow moving planets in transit, like

Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Venus,( even if possible Sun)

make a healthy mix, and then the parents may have

a Union accordingly, 273 days before that to

concieve. Thus the child may be timed,

and made to have major strong planets in his chart

at time of birth.

 

Of course the pros and cons would remain in

case of natural birth if timed too, one of these

strong planets may choose to be lord of

evil house because ascendant is not

timed by us.. But lets not talk negative.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, "Joyce Collins"

<joycecollins wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

> Being the mother of a western OB/GYN, I have discussed with him

many times the importancee of EXACT birth time records and have

quizzed him on how this "procedure" of recording the time is

carried out ----- I will make a point of addressing this again

with him ---- but rest assured that in the U.S.,there is little

precision and no consistency in this process!

> Because of my study and knowledge (limited) of Jyotish, my son

has respect (and curiousity) about this ancient wisdom and he

recognizes it's credibility. Interestingly he recently

mentioned a birth earlier that day that required an emergencyC-

section --- the surgery was rushed and there was not even time for

normal emergency sterile preps because the baby's monitored heart

rate indicated great and sudden distress ---- my son was extremely

fearful and expected the baby to be in poor condition, however much

to his delight, the baby was very good and above average" alertness,

etc. Because of some recent study and observance, I was aware of

the time that Saturn would be precisely on the ascendant and I

inquired if this was the time of the emergency and my son confirmed

that this was indeed the time!! I briefly described the issue of

Saturn being on the ascendant ---- and mentioned that this time

would slowly move move forward each day and further suggested that

he might not schedule "routine" c-sections during this time.. . so

very recently, (to my delight) he asked me what was the current time

of Saturn being on the ascendant! I mostly based my "caution" of

this daily occurance of Saturn being on the ascendending degree on

my own knowledge and personal experience with Saturn --- in my own

chart, Saturn at 28:00 Cancer - 12 House and the difficulty involved

in my own birth. However, my knowledge and wisdom is limited!!!

Obviously in my own birth and the aforementioned "emergency" birth

the babies were fine!

> I would be interested in learned opinions on what configuerations

with ascending degrees gives best support for successful birth

process for both mother and child!!

> My son has a very interesting chart --- he is indeed a beautiful

person and it seems to me his chart is clear as a bell that he is

absolutely carrying out the design in his chart! Once I furnished

his birth details to my Jyotish study group without providing any

info and until I revealed his occcupation, many thought he was

a "ladies' man". He is in fact a devoted husband and father. He

loves his work and of course adores and has great respect for

women! If there is interest, I will provide his birth details.

> J M C

>

>

> Original Message---

>

> Bhaskar

>

> Monday, February 26, 2007 1:19 PM

> Re: RE:calculation of T.O.B/Placenta

>

>

> Chandrasekharji,

>

> Even in India they have started what the westerners have long been

> doing.Few months back one of my wifes cousin delivered and the

> husband was present in deliver room (OT) assisting in getting water

> too, to even clean the stomache (Caserian Operation) in one of the

> best hospitals in Bombay, only visited by the top shots and

> Politicians .

>

> In this same case we see the human factor being discounted in

> deciding the time of birth, and the destiny coming forward to

> come in play. They had decided a partcular Lagna for the child birth

> after consulting best pundits in Rajasthan, but The Gyno Doctor came

> in two hours late, thus shifting the Lagna, as the OT was not free

> before. So its not easy for Man to decide the birth,unless it is

pre-

> written in the childs fate to get birth at the time decided by the

> parents.

>

> But then who can decide with firmness that this was written in such

> and such case, in the childs chart. One can only say after the

> incident has happened. And no sense or proof of talking after

> the birth has taken place.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice

> for

> > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of

> the

> > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to

cut

> the

> > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> >

> > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of

rewarding

> the

> > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her

> child.

> > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I

> remember

> > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> > acquaintances when a child was born.

> >

> > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It

> is

> > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

> beings

> > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend

> to eat

> > the placenta.

> >

> > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut

from

> the

> > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting

of

> the

> > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth

of

> an

> > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish

edifice

> > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on

his

> purva

> > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the

case.

> >

> > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

> explains

> > the process of human birth and explain about timing of which

action

> can

> > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled

> when a

> > child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

> >

> > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and

> they

> > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the

> shastra

> > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do

not

> want

> > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

> historical

> > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more

confusion.

> >

> > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view

> on the

> > subject.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> >

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour

> room

> > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got

through

> > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to

do

> > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > > deliveries.

> > >

> > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before

cutting

> of

> > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> > >

> > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural

> one

> > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> > >

> > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > >

> > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of

delivery ,it

> > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > >

> > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially

as

> > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > >

> > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > -- In

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor

room

> and

> > > there

> > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord.

Umbilical

> > > cord is

> > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > > from the

> > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time

of

> > > cutting

> > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth

> then

> > > one

> > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that

> vedic

> > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of

> birth

> > > of a baby.

> > > >

> > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > > hospitals

> > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and

> even

> > > in

> > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed

> and

> > > it is

> > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a

> problem,

> > > use of

> > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless

the

> > > baby is

> > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be

forced

> in

> > > the

> > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > > comment

> > > > on this.

> > > >

> > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > > different

> > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know

a

> > > bit

> > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals

> even

> > > in

> > > > breach presentation.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar

jis

> > > view

> > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > > chord or

> > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > > connects

> > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs

mother

> and

> > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a

parallel

> > > oxygen

> > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and

hence

> it

> > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being

effected

> > > until

> > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my

> curiousity

> > > > > awake.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the

chord.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika

which

> does

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is

controlled

> by

> > > > > human

> > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth

> then

> > > the

> > > > > whole

> > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > > purva

> > > > > karma

> > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always

> held

> > > the

> > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > > first

> > > > > intake

> > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered

as

> the

> > > > > time of

> > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then

first

> > > intake

> > > > > of

> > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > > premise but

> > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we

must

> > > > > remember

> > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

astrologer,some

> > > time

> > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta

is

> to

> > > be

> > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas

to

> > > support

> > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To

me

> > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting

the

> > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > -- In

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram

> srinivas"

> > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > > that a

> > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual

> cycle

> > > or

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis

found

> it

> > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record

> and

> > > hence,

> > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused

whether

> > > to take

> > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord

or

> > > when

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the

time

> > > > > variation

> > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial

difference.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the

> simple

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good

ettiquette

> > > and

> > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this.

There

> is

> > > good

> > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

subject....original

> and

> > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly

> qualified

> > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > > mythology,

> > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > > related

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ),

this

> > > is done

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science

is

> > > lost

> > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do

not

> > > know if

> > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > > literature

> > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or

reflect

> > > the

> > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > > planetary

> > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan

kidnapping

> > > Goddess

> > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > > destruction or

> > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of

Ayodhya,

> the

> > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > > understanding of

> > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original

> timing

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion

conch

> > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > > including

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > > Karna,

> > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

> Mahabharat {

> > > > > surely

> > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > > between

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the

> issue

> > > of

> > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > > still goes

> > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of

the

> > > war was

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > > there at

> > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > > interesting

> > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have

touched

> > > few

> > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > > learned

> > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of

> Lord

> > > Ram's

> > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > > brothers

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in

telugu,

> > > but due

> > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing

those

> good

> > > > > books

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in

> Telugu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > [

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf

Of

> > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is

an

> > > > > essential

> > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > > believe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > > life was

> > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe

that

> the

> > > time

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be

> looking

> > > into.

> > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might

be

> > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > > without

> > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the

womb

> > > would

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been

> living

> > > long

> > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart

based

> on

> > > the

> > > > > time

> > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

<http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > >

> > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Ramapriyaji

 

Hope cattle won't file a defamation:-).

 

Pradeep

, "D Ramapriya" <ramapriya.d

wrote:

>

> On 2/26/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> >

> > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> >

>

> Especially on the astrology Groups... right, Pradeep?

>

> Ramapriya

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Makes me remember that vegeteraniasm among

cattle has a lot to give, morally in lessons to

us. All the load bearing cattle, are vegeterian

by nature and all carnivorous CATTLE ARE LAZY,

which teaches us the good qualities about

vegetarian eating. We put loads on

elephants, cows, donkeys,horses,Camels, which are

basically vegetarian by nature.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

 

, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Ramapriyaji

>

> Hope cattle won't file a defamation:-).

>

> Pradeep

> , "D Ramapriya" <ramapriya.d@>

> wrote:

> >

> > On 2/26/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> > >

> >

> > Especially on the astrology Groups... right, Pradeep?

> >

> > Ramapriya

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

 

Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects.

Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? - Some

psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind this. The

baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to hold the baby

above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the intensity of

crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is asked to cut

the cord.

 

Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as first

breath marks an independent act from the child,save for the below

concern.

 

As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart from

nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three vessels) and

hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they say,amniotic sac

is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

 

As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for couple of hours

before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to astrology.But the

tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the natural cessation

of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some say within 10

minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

 

The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby totally

independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a parallel

supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting makes it.But

if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation time/point

happens in between in a silent fashion and goes unnoticed.

 

If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then independent

existence or birth should have a a single input.

 

All these depends on the divine/technical switch designed by the

Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly mentioned we need

to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities with

authenticity,to comment further.

 

Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if it can help

to further our understanding.I totally agree with your point

that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does not make

sense.

 

Respect

Pradeep

 

 

 

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice

for

> fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of

the

> mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut

the

> cord. I could not state anything about this.

>

> The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of

rewarding the

> midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her

child.

> But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I

remember

> in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> acquaintances when a child was born.

>

> I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It

is

> filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

beings

> and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend

to eat

> the placenta.

>

> Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut

from the

> time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting

of the

> cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of

an

> individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish

edifice

> stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

purva

> Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the

case.

>

> But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

explains

> the process of human birth and explain about timing of which

action can

> be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled

when a

> child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

>

> There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and

they

> relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the

shastra

> was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not

want

> to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

historical

> facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

>

> As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view

on the

> subject.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

>

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour

room

> > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > deliveries.

> >

> > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before

cutting of

> > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> >

> > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural

one

> > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> >

> > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> >

> > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> >

> > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > such a consideration is present in classics.

> >

> > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > -- In

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room

and

> > there

> > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > cord is

> > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > from the

> > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > cutting

> > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth

then

> > one

> > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that

vedic

> > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of

birth

> > of a baby.

> > >

> > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > hospitals

> > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and

even

> > in

> > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed

and

> > it is

> > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a

problem,

> > use of

> > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless

the

> > baby is

> > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced

in

> > the

> > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > comment

> > > on this.

> > >

> > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > different

> > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > bit

> > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals

even

> > in

> > > breach presentation.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar

jis

> > view

> > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > chord or

> > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > connects

> > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > >

> > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother

and

> > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a

parallel

> > oxygen

> > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > >

> > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence

it

> > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > >

> > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > until

> > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my

curiousity

> > > > awake.

> > > >

> > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which

does

> > > > mention

> > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is

controlled by

> > > > human

> > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth

then

> > the

> > > > whole

> > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > purva

> > > > karma

> > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always

held

> > the

> > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > first

> > > > intake

> > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered

as the

> > > > time of

> > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then

first

> > intake

> > > > of

> > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > premise but

> > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > remember

> > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

astrologer,some

> > time

> > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is

to

> > be

> > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > support

> > > > > > his view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To

me

> > > > Placenta

> > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting

the

> > > > baby.When

> > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > -- In

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram

srinivas"

> > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > that a

> > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual

cycle

> > or

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found

it

> > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record

and

> > hence,

> > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused

whether

> > to take

> > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord

or

> > when

> > > > the

> > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > variation

> > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the

simple

> > > > reason

> > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good

ettiquette

> > and

> > > > > > society

> > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this.

There is

> > good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

subject....original and

> > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly

qualified

> > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > mythology,

> > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > horoscope.

> > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > related

> > > > to

> > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ),

this

> > is done

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science

is

> > lost

> > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > know if

> > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > literature

> > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or

reflect

> > the

> > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > planetary

> > > > > > based

> > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > Goddess

> > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > destruction or

> > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya,

the

> > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > understanding of

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original

timing

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > Krishna

> > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > including

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > Karna,

> > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

Mahabharat {

> > > > surely

> > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > between

> > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the

issue

> > of

> > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > still goes

> > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > war was

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > Kurushetra

> > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > there at

> > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > interesting

> > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have

touched

> > few

> > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > learned

> > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of

Lord

> > Ram's

> > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > brothers

> > > > in

> > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > technique......

> > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in

telugu,

> > but due

> > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those

good

> > > > books

> > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in

Telugu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > [

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > GYATHRI

> > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is

an

> > > > essential

> > > > > > element

> > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > believe

> > > > that

> > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > life was

> > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that

the

> > time

> > > > we

> > > > > > were

> > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be

looking

> > into.

> > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > conceived

> > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > without

> > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > would

> > > > have

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been

living

> > long

> > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based

on

> > the

> > > > time

> > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>'>http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > >

> > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

I am glad to find another knowledgeable astrologer agreeing with my

position on the time of birth of a child. This was known to all, in

times bygone, that is why the ancient texts do not mention what is to be

taken as time of birth or what constitutes a day for the purpose of jyotish.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

ashsam73 wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar,

>

> Even Krushanji had taught me to take the time of first cry as the time

> when the baby is born for calculating a chart.

>

> Cheers !!!

> Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca <http://www.ashtro.ca>

>

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice for

> > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of the

> > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut the

> > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> >

> > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of rewarding the

> > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her child.

> > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I remember

> > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> > acquaintances when a child was born.

> >

> > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It is

> > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

> beings

> > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend to

> eat

> > the placenta.

> >

> > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut from the

> > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting of the

> > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of an

> > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish edifice

> > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

> purva

> > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the case.

> >

> > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

> explains

> > the process of human birth and explain about timing of which action can

> > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled when a

> > child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

> >

> > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and they

> > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the shastra

> > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not want

> > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret historical

> > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

> >

> > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view on

> the

> > subject.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> >

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour room

> > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > > deliveries.

> > >

> > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before cutting of

> > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> > >

> > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural one

> > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> > >

> > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > >

> > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > >

> > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > >

> > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room and

> > > there

> > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > > cord is

> > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > > from the

> > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > > cutting

> > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth then

> > > one

> > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that vedic

> > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of birth

> > > of a baby.

> > > >

> > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > > hospitals

> > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and even

> > > in

> > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed and

> > > it is

> > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a problem,

> > > use of

> > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless the

> > > baby is

> > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced in

> > > the

> > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > > comment

> > > > on this.

> > > >

> > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > > different

> > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > > bit

> > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals even

> > > in

> > > > breach presentation.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar jis

> > > view

> > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > > chord or

> > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > > connects

> > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother and

> > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a parallel

> > > oxygen

> > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence it

> > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > > until

> > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my curiousity

> > > > > awake.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which does

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is controlled by

> > > > > human

> > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth then

> > > the

> > > > > whole

> > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > > purva

> > > > > karma

> > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always held

> > > the

> > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > > first

> > > > > intake

> > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered as the

> > > > > time of

> > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then first

> > > intake

> > > > > of

> > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > > premise but

> > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > > remember

> > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village astrologer,some

> > > time

> > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is to

> > > be

> > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > > support

> > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To me

> > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting the

> > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram srinivas"

> > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > > that a

> > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual cycle

> > > or

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found it

> > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record and

> > > hence,

> > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused whether

> > > to take

> > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord or

> > > when

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > > variation

> > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the simple

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good ettiquette

> > > and

> > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. There is

> > > good

> > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan subject....original and

> > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly qualified

> > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > > mythology,

> > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > > related

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), this

> > > is done

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science is

> > > lost

> > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > > know if

> > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > > literature

> > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or reflect

> > > the

> > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > > planetary

> > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > > Goddess

> > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > > destruction or

> > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya, the

> > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > > understanding of

> > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original timing

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > > including

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > > Karna,

> > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of Mahabharat {

> > > > > surely

> > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > > between

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the issue

> > > of

> > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > > still goes

> > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > > war was

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > > there at

> > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > > interesting

> > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have touched

> > > few

> > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > > learned

> > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of Lord

> > > Ram's

> > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > > brothers

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in telugu,

> > > but due

> > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those good

> > > > > books

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in Telugu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > [

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is an

> > > > > essential

> > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > > believe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > > life was

> > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that the

> > > time

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be looking

> > > into.

> > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > > without

> > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > > would

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been living

> > > long

> > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based on

> > > the

> > > > > time

> > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > >

> > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hello Everyone

 

Allow me to add my two cents on this discussion. As long as the baby

is attached to the mother through the Umbilical cord it receives

oxygen from the mother and does not need to breathe.

 

Time of birth technically is recorded when the umbilical cord is cut!!

The baby thus deprived of live saving oxygen now needs to breathe to

survive.

 

In some cases where the baby does not start breathing, the attendant

doctors and nurses pinch the baby to facilitate the natural process.

If this fails, artificial resuscitation attempts are then initiated.

 

If all attempts to revive the baby fails and the baby does not

breathe, death is announced.

 

So in Medical Technical terms, birth time is the one where independent

life comes into existence on this planet. This happens only when the

umbilical cord is cut!!!

 

All major hospitals record cutting of Umbilical cord as birth time.

However in cases where the staff is negligent or busy with the mother

and the child they fail to note the time, hence discrepancies cannot

be ruled out.

 

Hope the concept is clear. Warm regards

 

Dev Kumar

 

 

 

, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects.

> Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? - Some

> psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind this. The

> baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to hold the baby

> above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the intensity of

> crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is asked to cut

> the cord.

>

> Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as first

> breath marks an independent act from the child,save for the below

> concern.

>

> As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart from

> nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three vessels) and

> hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they say,amniotic sac

> is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

>

> As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for couple of hours

> before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to astrology.But the

> tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the natural cessation

> of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some say within 10

> minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

>

> The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby totally

> independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a parallel

> supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting makes it.But

> if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation time/point

> happens in between in a silent fashion and goes unnoticed.

>

> If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then independent

> existence or birth should have a a single input.

>

> All these depends on the divine/technical switch designed by the

> Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly mentioned we need

> to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities with

> authenticity,to comment further.

>

> Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if it can help

> to further our understanding.I totally agree with your point

> that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does not make

> sense.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

>

>

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice

> for

> > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of

> the

> > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut

> the

> > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> >

> > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of

> rewarding the

> > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her

> child.

> > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I

> remember

> > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> > acquaintances when a child was born.

> >

> > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It

> is

> > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

> beings

> > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend

> to eat

> > the placenta.

> >

> > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut

> from the

> > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting

> of the

> > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of

> an

> > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish

> edifice

> > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

> purva

> > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the

> case.

> >

> > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

> explains

> > the process of human birth and explain about timing of which

> action can

> > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled

> when a

> > child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

> >

> > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and

> they

> > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the

> shastra

> > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not

> want

> > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

> historical

> > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

> >

> > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view

> on the

> > subject.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> >

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour

> room

> > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > > deliveries.

> > >

> > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before

> cutting of

> > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> > >

> > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural

> one

> > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> > >

> > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > >

> > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > >

> > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > >

> > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > -- In

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room

> and

> > > there

> > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > > cord is

> > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > > from the

> > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > > cutting

> > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth

> then

> > > one

> > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that

> vedic

> > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of

> birth

> > > of a baby.

> > > >

> > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > > hospitals

> > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and

> even

> > > in

> > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed

> and

> > > it is

> > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a

> problem,

> > > use of

> > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless

> the

> > > baby is

> > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced

> in

> > > the

> > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > > comment

> > > > on this.

> > > >

> > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > > different

> > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > > bit

> > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals

> even

> > > in

> > > > breach presentation.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar

> jis

> > > view

> > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > > chord or

> > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > > connects

> > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother

> and

> > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a

> parallel

> > > oxygen

> > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence

> it

> > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > > until

> > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my

> curiousity

> > > > > awake.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which

> does

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is

> controlled by

> > > > > human

> > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth

> then

> > > the

> > > > > whole

> > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > > purva

> > > > > karma

> > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always

> held

> > > the

> > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > > first

> > > > > intake

> > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered

> as the

> > > > > time of

> > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then

> first

> > > intake

> > > > > of

> > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > > premise but

> > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > > remember

> > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

> astrologer,some

> > > time

> > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is

> to

> > > be

> > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > > support

> > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To

> me

> > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting

> the

> > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > -- In

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram

> srinivas"

> > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > > that a

> > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual

> cycle

> > > or

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found

> it

> > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record

> and

> > > hence,

> > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused

> whether

> > > to take

> > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord

> or

> > > when

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > > variation

> > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the

> simple

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good

> ettiquette

> > > and

> > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this.

> There is

> > > good

> > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> subject....original and

> > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly

> qualified

> > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > > mythology,

> > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > > related

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ),

> this

> > > is done

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science

> is

> > > lost

> > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > > know if

> > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > > literature

> > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or

> reflect

> > > the

> > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > > planetary

> > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > > Goddess

> > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > > destruction or

> > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya,

> the

> > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > > understanding of

> > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original

> timing

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > > including

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > > Karna,

> > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

> Mahabharat {

> > > > > surely

> > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > > between

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the

> issue

> > > of

> > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > > still goes

> > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > > war was

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > > there at

> > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > > interesting

> > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have

> touched

> > > few

> > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > > learned

> > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of

> Lord

> > > Ram's

> > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > > brothers

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in

> telugu,

> > > but due

> > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those

> good

> > > > > books

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in

> Telugu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > [

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is

> an

> > > > > essential

> > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > > believe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > > life was

> > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that

> the

> > > time

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be

> looking

> > > into.

> > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > > without

> > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > > would

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been

> living

> > > long

> > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based

> on

> > > the

> > > > > time

> > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep,

 

I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the uterus to the placenta

through the umbilical cord to the navel of the fetus. Placenta is a

transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen, antibodies and

hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus and carries the waste

generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is detached from the

uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues, barring that available

in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is why once the amniotic

fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one has to ensure that the

baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent first breath that is

the time of birth. Of course as i have said earlier, this is my personal

opinion and others could hold a different view.

 

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

 

 

 

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects.

> Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? - Some

> psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind this. The

> baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to hold the baby

> above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the intensity of

> crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is asked to cut

> the cord.

>

> Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as first

> breath marks an independent act from the child,save for the below

> concern.

>

> As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart from

> nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three vessels) and

> hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they say,amniotic sac

> is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

>

> As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for couple of hours

> before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to astrology.But the

> tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the natural cessation

> of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some say within 10

> minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

>

> The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby totally

> independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a parallel

> supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting makes it.But

> if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation time/point

> happens in between in a silent fashion and goes unnoticed.

>

> If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then independent

> existence or birth should have a a single input.

>

> All these depends on the divine/technical switch designed by the

> Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly mentioned we need

> to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities with

> authenticity,to comment further.

>

> Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if it can help

> to further our understanding.I totally agree with your point

> that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does not make

> sense.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice

> for

> > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of

> the

> > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut

> the

> > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> >

> > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of

> rewarding the

> > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her

> child.

> > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I

> remember

> > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> > acquaintances when a child was born.

> >

> > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It

> is

> > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

> beings

> > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend

> to eat

> > the placenta.

> >

> > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut

> from the

> > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting

> of the

> > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of

> an

> > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish

> edifice

> > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

> purva

> > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the

> case.

> >

> > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

> explains

> > the process of human birth and explain about timing of which

> action can

> > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled

> when a

> > child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

> >

> > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and

> they

> > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the

> shastra

> > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not

> want

> > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

> historical

> > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

> >

> > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view

> on the

> > subject.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> >

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour

> room

> > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > > deliveries.

> > >

> > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before

> cutting of

> > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> > >

> > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural

> one

> > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> > >

> > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > >

> > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > >

> > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > >

> > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room

> and

> > > there

> > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > > cord is

> > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > > from the

> > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > > cutting

> > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth

> then

> > > one

> > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that

> vedic

> > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of

> birth

> > > of a baby.

> > > >

> > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > > hospitals

> > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and

> even

> > > in

> > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed

> and

> > > it is

> > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a

> problem,

> > > use of

> > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless

> the

> > > baby is

> > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced

> in

> > > the

> > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > > comment

> > > > on this.

> > > >

> > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > > different

> > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > > bit

> > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals

> even

> > > in

> > > > breach presentation.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar

> jis

> > > view

> > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > > chord or

> > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > > connects

> > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother

> and

> > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a

> parallel

> > > oxygen

> > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence

> it

> > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > > until

> > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my

> curiousity

> > > > > awake.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which

> does

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is

> controlled by

> > > > > human

> > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth

> then

> > > the

> > > > > whole

> > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > > purva

> > > > > karma

> > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always

> held

> > > the

> > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > > first

> > > > > intake

> > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered

> as the

> > > > > time of

> > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then

> first

> > > intake

> > > > > of

> > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > > premise but

> > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > > remember

> > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

> astrologer,some

> > > time

> > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is

> to

> > > be

> > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > > support

> > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To

> me

> > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting

> the

> > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram

> srinivas"

> > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > > that a

> > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual

> cycle

> > > or

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found

> it

> > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record

> and

> > > hence,

> > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused

> whether

> > > to take

> > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord

> or

> > > when

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > > variation

> > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the

> simple

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good

> ettiquette

> > > and

> > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this.

> There is

> > > good

> > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> subject....original and

> > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly

> qualified

> > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > > mythology,

> > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > > related

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ),

> this

> > > is done

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science

> is

> > > lost

> > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > > know if

> > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > > literature

> > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or

> reflect

> > > the

> > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > > planetary

> > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > > Goddess

> > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > > destruction or

> > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya,

> the

> > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > > understanding of

> > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original

> timing

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > > including

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > > Karna,

> > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

> Mahabharat {

> > > > > surely

> > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > > between

> > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the

> issue

> > > of

> > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > > still goes

> > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > > war was

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > > there at

> > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > > interesting

> > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have

> touched

> > > few

> > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > > learned

> > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of

> Lord

> > > Ram's

> > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > > brothers

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in

> telugu,

> > > but due

> > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those

> good

> > > > > books

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in

> Telugu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > [

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is

> an

> > > > > essential

> > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > > believe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > > life was

> > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that

> the

> > > time

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be

> looking

> > > into.

> > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > > without

> > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > > would

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been

> living

> > > long

> > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based

> on

> > > the

> > > > > time

> > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> >

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>

> > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > >

> > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Dev,

Your post is a bit confusing. Do you mean that if the umbilical cord is

cut the child is born alive even if it does not draw the first breath

and is declared born dead by the Doctors?

 

I am sure you do not mean that just because hospitals record the time of

cutting of umbilical cord as time of birth, science of astrology should

treat it as the time of birth if the original parameters were different.

 

Chandrashekhar.

 

jumanji1957 wrote:

>

> Hello Everyone

>

> Allow me to add my two cents on this discussion. As long as the baby

> is attached to the mother through the Umbilical cord it receives

> oxygen from the mother and does not need to breathe.

>

> Time of birth technically is recorded when the umbilical cord is cut!!

> The baby thus deprived of live saving oxygen now needs to breathe to

> survive.

>

> In some cases where the baby does not start breathing, the attendant

> doctors and nurses pinch the baby to facilitate the natural process.

> If this fails, artificial resuscitation attempts are then initiated.

>

> If all attempts to revive the baby fails and the baby does not

> breathe, death is announced.

>

> So in Medical Technical terms, birth time is the one where independent

> life comes into existence on this planet. This happens only when the

> umbilical cord is cut!!!

>

> All major hospitals record cutting of Umbilical cord as birth time.

> However in cases where the staff is negligent or busy with the mother

> and the child they fail to note the time, hence discrepancies cannot

> be ruled out.

>

> Hope the concept is clear. Warm regards

>

> Dev Kumar

>

>

> <%40>, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects.

> > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? - Some

> > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind this. The

> > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to hold the baby

> > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the intensity of

> > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is asked to cut

> > the cord.

> >

> > Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as first

> > breath marks an independent act from the child,save for the below

> > concern.

> >

> > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart from

> > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three vessels) and

> > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they say,amniotic sac

> > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

> >

> > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for couple of hours

> > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to astrology.But the

> > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the natural cessation

> > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some say within 10

> > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

> >

> > The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby totally

> > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a parallel

> > supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting makes it.But

> > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation time/point

> > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes unnoticed.

> >

> > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then independent

> > existence or birth should have a a single input.

> >

> > All these depends on the divine/technical switch designed by the

> > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly mentioned we need

> > to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities with

> > authenticity,to comment further.

> >

> > Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if it can help

> > to further our understanding.I totally agree with your point

> > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does not make

> > sense.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a practice

> > for

> > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of

> > the

> > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to cut

> > the

> > > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> > >

> > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of

> > rewarding the

> > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her

> > child.

> > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I

> > remember

> > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the

> > > acquaintances when a child was born.

> > >

> > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. It

> > is

> > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate

> > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in human

> > beings

> > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too tend

> > to eat

> > > the placenta.

> > >

> > > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut

> > from the

> > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for cutting

> > of the

> > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of birth of

> > an

> > > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish

> > edifice

> > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth being

> > > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on his

> > purva

> > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the

> > case.

> > >

> > > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group

> > explains

> > > the process of human birth and explain about timing of which

> > action can

> > > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so controlled

> > when a

> > > child is born so that this question is settled once and for all.

> > >

> > > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and

> > they

> > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the

> > shastra

> > > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of breath

> > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do not

> > want

> > > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

> > historical

> > > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more confusion.

> > >

> > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different view

> > on the

> > > subject.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >

> > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and labour

> > room

> > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got through

> > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me to do

> > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both normal

> > > > deliveries.

> > > >

> > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before

> > cutting of

> > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> > > >

> > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the natural

> > one

> > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an artificial

> > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to case.

> > > >

> > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a planned

> > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the lord

> > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > > >

> > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of delivery ,it

> > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > > >

> > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that

> > > > different views regarding the topic can be obtained,especially as

> > > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > > >

> > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor room

> > and

> > > > there

> > > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. Umbilical

> > > > cord is

> > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be away

> > > > from the

> > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the time of

> > > > cutting

> > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for birth

> > then

> > > > one

> > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that

> > vedic

> > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of

> > birth

> > > > of a baby.

> > > > >

> > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of organized

> > > > hospitals

> > > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there and

> > even

> > > > in

> > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous removed

> > and

> > > > it is

> > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a

> > problem,

> > > > use of

> > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here unless

> > the

> > > > baby is

> > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be forced

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better placed to

> > > > comment

> > > > > on this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a

> > > > different

> > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and know a

> > > > bit

> > > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my animals

> > even

> > > > in

> > > > > breach presentation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in chandrashekhar

> > jis

> > > > view

> > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of umbilical

> > > > chord or

> > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical chord

> > > > connects

> > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs mother

> > and

> > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a

> > parallel

> > > > oxygen

> > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and hence

> > it

> > > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in your

> > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being effected

> > > > until

> > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my

> > curiousity

> > > > > > awake.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the chord.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika which

> > does

> > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is

> > controlled by

> > > > > > human

> > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of birth

> > then

> > > > the

> > > > > > whole

> > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by his

> > > > purva

> > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have always

> > held

> > > > the

> > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby indicative of

> > > > first

> > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be considered

> > as the

> > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then

> > first

> > > > intake

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that

> > > > premise but

> > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we must

> > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

> > astrologer,some

> > > > time

> > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of placenta is

> > to

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has shlokas to

> > > > support

> > > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his views.To

> > me

> > > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and protecting

> > the

> > > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>, "sreeram

> > srinivas"

> > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you know

> > > > that a

> > > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the menstrual

> > cycle

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis found

> > it

> > > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to record

> > and

> > > > hence,

> > > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused

> > whether

> > > > to take

> > > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical cord

> > or

> > > > when

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the time

> > > > > > variation

> > > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial difference.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > > best "Garbadharan" and

> > > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the

> > simple

> > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good

> > ettiquette

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this.

> > There is

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> > subject....original and

> > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly

> > qualified

> > > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including our

> > > > mythology,

> > > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than individual

> > > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some predictions

> > > > related

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ),

> > this

> > > > is done

> > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > the "amsa" calculations. Some of this ancient science

> > is

> > > > lost

> > > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge do not

> > > > know if

> > > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly i.e.

> > > > literature

> > > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or

> > reflect

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather than

> > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan kidnapping

> > > > Goddess

> > > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > > called something "Vinda", a result of which was

> > > > destruction or

> > > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of Ayodhya,

> > the

> > > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( can he

> > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > > > understanding of

> > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original

> > timing

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the Lord

> > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion conch

> > > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable astros

> > > > including

> > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan Vir

> > > > Karna,

> > > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord

> > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

> > Mahabharat {

> > > > > > surely

> > > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting discussion

> > > > between

> > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the

> > issue

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This controversy

> > > > still goes

> > > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location of the

> > > > war was

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna i.e.

> > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the SOIL

> > > > there at

> > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very

> > > > interesting

> > > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have

> > touched

> > > > few

> > > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more lines....though

> > > > learned

> > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser of

> > Lord

> > > > Ram's

> > > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord Ram &

> > > > brothers

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and

> > > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - great

> > > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in

> > telugu,

> > > > but due

> > > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing those

> > good

> > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in

> > Telugu.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > [

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>] On Behalf Of

> > > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which is

> > an

> > > > > > essential

> > > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me to

> > > > believe

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, because

> > > > life was

> > > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe that

> > the

> > > > time

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be

> > looking

> > > > into.

> > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i might be

> > > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months delivery

> > > > without

> > > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the womb

> > > > would

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been

> > living

> > > > long

> > > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need some

> > > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart based

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > > >

>

>

> ------

>

>

>

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