ayurveda Herbs in west

[Guest guest]

Excellent Dr. Bhate. Just that Shavacchedan is advocated for understanding the human anatomy.

 

Shirish Bhate <shirishbhate > wrote:

<snip>

What intrigues an

ayurveda student is how the herbal properties and details of anatomy,

nadis etc may have been discovered by ancient sage, without disecting a

body or without microscopes.

[Guest guest]

>

> But Roamnticism about Indian ayurveda is seeing all elements in their

> entirety..thus using air, breathing exercises, yogasanas, meditation,

> tantra techniques is something distinctly eastern. The word eastern

> includes all east. That is why west is attracted by all alternative

> sciences. However Herbal science is truly universal. What intrigues an

> ayurveda student is how the herbal properties and details of anatomy,

> nadis etc may have been discovered by ancient sage, without disecting a

> body or without microscopes.

 

CAM in the west has it origins outside of an eastern context - samuel thomson was a poor

american farmer in the early 1800's that independently discovered the basis of pancha

karma, and his successors developed a system of therapeutics that was very advanced

before big medicine shut it down in the early 20th century

 

http://www.toddcaldecott.com/pdf%20files/publications/Physiomedicalism/

Physiomedicalism.pdf

 

i am sure that if it was india, samuel thomson would be seen as a avatar... quite

remarkable, and further evidence that the principles of healing and health exist within our

very relationship with nature, as the first nations peoples of north america knew well

 

>

> As herbalists we may cross over to west, but we would like to remain in

> east as ayurvedists only. Herbal science teaches the usage and growing

> the herbs. But ayurveda teaches blissful lifestyle.

 

there is nothing to compell indian ayurvedists to become familiar with western or chinese

herbs, although it is clear that in the past ayurvedic doctors took a great interest in

incoprporating some of these plants in their materia medica

 

but just so we are clear, i am eternally greatful to the acharyas of india that have sought to

teach and preserve the teachings of ayurveda for the benefit of all humanity

 

todd caldecott

[Guest guest]

> sciences. However Herbal science is truly universal. What intrigues an

> ayurveda student is how the herbal properties and details of anatomy,

> nadis etc may have been discovered by ancient sage, without disecting a

> body or without microscopes.

 

but what is quite sad is that shalya chikitsa has been lost a discipline in ayurveda, and that

even now BAMS docs learn western anatomy and physiology

 

it is interesting to speculate why this happened... any thoughts?

[Guest guest]

>

> CAM in the west has it origins outside of an eastern context -

samuel thomson was a poor

> american farmer in the early 1800's that independently discovered

the basis of pancha

> karma, and his successors developed a system of therapeutics that

was very advanced

> before big medicine shut it down in the early 20th century

>

This reminds me of "The essene Gospel of Peace – claimed to be an

old Aramaic texts found by Edmond Bordeaux Szekely in the Vartican

Library. The following sounds to me like the followers of Jesus are

doing basti. Besides water they used the other elements to clean out

different impurities.

 

Best regards

 

Cristian

 

 

 

>From Gospel of Peace book one:

 

"Seek, therefore, a large trailing gourd, having a stalk the length

of a man; take out its inwards and fill it with water from the river

which the sun has warmed. Hang it upon the branch of a tree, and

kneel upon the ground before the angel of water, and suffer the end

of the stalk of the trailing gourd to enter your hinder parts, that

the water may flow through all your bowels. Afterwards rest kneeling

on the ground before the angel of water and pray to the living God

that he will forgive you all your past sins, and pray the angel of

water that he will free your body from every uncleanness and isease.

Then let the water run out from your body, that it may carry away

from within it all the unclean and evil-smelling things of Satan.

And you shall see with your eyes and smell with your nose all

the abominations, and uncleannesses which defiled the temple of your

body; even all the sins which abode in your body, tormenting you

with all manner of pains"

[Guest guest]

There is a current attitude in India that Ayurveda is

an inferior form of medicine.

I knew a woman who completed BAMS and then went to

work as a doctor in an allopathic hospital. She said

ayurveda was pointless.

Often if people can not get into medicine they do

Ayurveda or Unani or some form of traditional

medicine.

Many people who have done BAMS find traditional

vaidyas to be silly and impractical.

I had a Guru who was a vaidya through family tradition

who has people picking plants across India according

to Tithi, time of day and uses prescribed mantras

while picking them.

When I spoke to a man who was a senior ayurvedic

doctor he said that these gurus or traditional vaidyas

all hold secrets that they will not share with those

holding BAMS and they are all silly.

The whole sacred essence of ayurveda is often lost and

efforts have been made to make it more practical.

I think all of this comes from a feeling of

inferiority and a lack of respect for the mystic

aspects of this divine science.

I myself always was intrigued by the mind, body and

spirit connection and now, after a couple of decades

of study of yoga and ayurveda have decided to study

sciences.

I find them slightly empty and disconnected after

studying in a holistic setting.

I find it unfortunate that such a deep and rich

science such as ayurveda has dropped to the wayside to

make room for what looks like experimental medicine

(allopathy).

I am not discrediting allopathy entirely , of course

for emergency care and diagnostics - x - ray etc it is

good.

But most of what is done now with machines was done

with hands and intuition by our ancestors .

I also feel though that medicine is a gift.

If taken simply as a vocation we will have many people

without the gift of intuition caring for our health

and this is where the problem lies.

The tradition of medicine was often passed on through

families and was thus ingrained in people and even

then, not all members of the tradition had the gift

and would not have necessarily followed the tradition

or would have selected an aspect of the tradition

where they are gifted.

The point I am getting at here is that those who teach

must have the gift in order to bring the science to

the pupil and the pupil must be gifted to receive.

Perhaps ayurveda was not intended to be taught in bulk

in a university setting and that is why some aspects

have been replaced by allopathic technique.

Many aspects of ayurveda require meditation, and a

spiritual bent along with intuition to develop and

this may be difficult to foster in universities.

--- Todd Caldecott <todd (AT) toddcaldecott (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

> > sciences. However Herbal science is truly

> universal. What intrigues an

> > ayurveda student is how the herbal properties and

> details of anatomy,

> > nadis etc may have been discovered by ancient

> sage, without disecting a

> > body or without microscopes.

>

> but what is quite sad is that shalya chikitsa has

> been lost a discipline in ayurveda, and that

> even now BAMS docs learn western anatomy and

> physiology

>

> it is interesting to speculate why this happened...

> any thoughts?

[Guest guest]

Dear Mandakini,

 

I am really surprised to hear that. I knew it was the case may be

until sometime ago.. But now, I am assumig and expecting it to be

the other way about. Meaning, in India, people do prefer Ayurveda so

much, compared to Allopathy, especially during last few years +.

 

I live in California & I can say for sure that Ayurveda is getting

so very popular here. We feel/sense that Ayurveda can help like a

wonder, with no side effects. I have a sweet & very intelligent

gifted child, diagnosed with HFA (high functioning autism). I

honestly wish, I had studied Ayurveda instead of my degrees in

hightech field, to help him better. Even in U.S, Allopathy is

absolutely clueless about this dangerous increase in the number of

kids with autism diagnosis these days (As of today, 1 in 166

children get diagnosed with autism). Even if there is any medicine

for a specific issue, it has so many side effects that it can hardly

attack the problem.

 

Just felt like sharing my thoughts.

 

Regards,

Amrutha

 

 

 

 

 

ayurveda, mandv m <mandakiniven

wrote:

>

> There is a current attitude in India that Ayurveda is

> an inferior form of medicine.

> I knew a woman who completed BAMS and then went to

> work as a doctor in an allopathic hospital. She said

> ayurveda was pointless.

> Often if people can not get into medicine they do

> Ayurveda or Unani or some form of traditional

> medicine.

> Many people who have done BAMS find traditional

> vaidyas to be silly and impractical.

> I had a Guru who was a vaidya through family tradition

> who has people picking plants across India according

> to Tithi, time of day and uses prescribed mantras

> while picking them.

> When I spoke to a man who was a senior ayurvedic

> doctor he said that these gurus or traditional vaidyas

> all hold secrets that they will not share with those

> holding BAMS and they are all silly.

> The whole sacred essence of ayurveda is often lost and

> efforts have been made to make it more practical.

> I think all of this comes from a feeling of

> inferiority and a lack of respect for the mystic

> aspects of this divine science.

> I myself always was intrigued by the mind, body and

> spirit connection and now, after a couple of decades

> of study of yoga and ayurveda have decided to study

> sciences.

> I find them slightly empty and disconnected after

> studying in a holistic setting.

> I find it unfortunate that such a deep and rich

> science such as ayurveda has dropped to the wayside to

> make room for what looks like experimental medicine

> (allopathy).

> I am not discrediting allopathy entirely , of course

> for emergency care and diagnostics - x - ray etc it is

> good.

> But most of what is done now with machines was done

> with hands and intuition by our ancestors .

> I also feel though that medicine is a gift.

> If taken simply as a vocation we will have many people

> without the gift of intuition caring for our health

> and this is where the problem lies.

> The tradition of medicine was often passed on through

> families and was thus ingrained in people and even

> then, not all members of the tradition had the gift

> and would not have necessarily followed the tradition

> or would have selected an aspect of the tradition

> where they are gifted.

> The point I am getting at here is that those who teach

> must have the gift in order to bring the science to

> the pupil and the pupil must be gifted to receive.

> Perhaps ayurveda was not intended to be taught in bulk

> in a university setting and that is why some aspects

> have been replaced by allopathic technique.

> Many aspects of ayurveda require meditation, and a

> spiritual bent along with intuition to develop and

> this may be difficult to foster in universities.

> --- Todd Caldecott <todd wrote:

>

> >

> > > sciences. However Herbal science is truly

> > universal. What intrigues an

> > > ayurveda student is how the herbal properties and

> > details of anatomy,

> > > nadis etc may have been discovered by ancient

> > sage, without disecting a

> > > body or without microscopes.

> >

> > but what is quite sad is that shalya chikitsa has

> > been lost a discipline in ayurveda, and that

> > even now BAMS docs learn western anatomy and

> > physiology

> >

> > it is interesting to speculate why this happened...

> > any thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

hi mandakiniven

 

i appreciate what you are saying - india and the rest of the developing world is in such a

head-long rush to attain what we have in the west, without seeing the damage it has

caused in our society, and on a global scale, the cost to the rest of the world - but

sometimes the pendulum needs to complete its swing before it moves back to the other

side, and in india, is suspect there is still some movement left... hopefully we have time,

and i for one appreciate the work of people like swami ramdev, sm acharya, dr bhate and

other indians that are working hard for the benefit of others in a truly sustainable fashion

 

all of the practices that you state are recommended by traditional vaidyas are

recommended by traditional herbalists all of over the world - of course they might not

chant sanskrit mantras but at what point is this simply an aesthetic issue? many indian

teachers have pronounced the emptiness of such rituals, but if one one's mind is focused,

if one's heart is connected to the plant, and the act of harvesting is undertaken with

respect, then what intrinsic difference is there? my earlier point is that while ayurveda has

been preserved by indian culture, actual ayurveda is found everywhere, practiced by

people of deep insight, respect and humility, and whle indian ayurvedists might find some

practices strange or different, they would do to realize that the converse is true as well -

the learning never stops!

 

lastly, regarding the sciences, they are taught and practiced in a disconnected fashion, but

it is possible to link together scientific knowledge in a scientific fashion, and put things in

a context that science-minded people will understand - its a crucial task because we have

been and will be dominated by science for a long time to come, and we need to be

properly prepared to take on the premise of faulty science, not with mysticism and

romanticism, but with an intelligent, generous and open mind

 

best... todd

Caldecott

todd (AT) toddcaldecott (DOT) com

www.toddcaldecott.com

 

ayurveda, mandv m <mandakiniven wrote:

>

> There is a current attitude in India that Ayurveda is

> an inferior form of medicine.

> I knew a woman who completed BAMS and then went to

> work as a doctor in an allopathic hospital. She said

> ayurveda was pointless.

> Often if people can not get into medicine they do

> Ayurveda or Unani or some form of traditional

> medicine.

> Many people who have done BAMS find traditional

> vaidyas to be silly and impractical.

<snip>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you 100% Todd that ayurveda is practised

everywhere.

That is, where the mind is pure and where holism is

kept in mind.

I would like to say though that in the this modern

day kali yuga we do have the tendency to extract parts

of plants, use chemicals and fillers etc - this is not

holistic herbalism as far as I am concerned.

I feel that this type of herbalism is disconnected and

has the potential to be as harmful as the drugs used

in current day medicine.

I agree that we must stay abreast with science and

integrate science with spirituality.

That is pretty much what the science of ayurveda is.

Though worship through puja may seem like empty ritual

the pujas are loaded with information on jyotish and

ayurveda. If we understand these two sciences we can

understand why we are offering certain things to the

gods, all puja is offered to a perceivably external

god for the benefit of the antaratma internal God.

Vedi mantras are not just words in Sanskrit, they are

configured by the combining of vibrational seed

sounds that imbibe the plant with deeper healing

properties and heal the plant as we pluck its leaves,

roots and flowers and empower the plant to propsper..

This is not magic, but rather quantum physics.

\As you say, the same can be done to a degree by any

herbalist who loves the earth and sees the intrinsic

connection between all parts of nature.

But this can not be underestimated or brushed aside.,

This component of herbalism is necessary because it

helps us humans remember that we and the earth are not

separate and will then keep us within our realms of

duty so that we do not exploit the planet.

--- Todd Caldecott <todd (AT) toddcaldecott (DOT) com> wrote:

 

> hi mandakiniven

>

> i appreciate what you are saying - india and the

> rest of the developing world is in such a

> head-long rush to attain what we have in the west,