Most powerful weapon

[Guest guest]

When little kids inquire about a near one whom death has taken away, they are told by older kids (like us) that God needed them more and hence called them to his home.

 

God is a concept which is positively appealing and can be attributed all the reasons for the events which are otherwise not understood by us. Whether there is God or not is a different question, but the concept of God itself has a lot of benefits for people whose emotional blocks do not permit them to think beyond a certain point.

 

It would have been good if this concept was utilised to merely lift away the fears about death, poverty and disease. But, the more clever ones of us grown up kids have found this concept and its hold on other not so clever kids to be a potent weapon to attain power over these not so clever ones.

 

The Popes, Mullahs, Priests, Pandits, politicians, dictators, etc, have been utilising this weapon to be in unquestionable powerful positions since ages. In all cultures, regions, countries, in all times, this has happened and will keep on happening always.

 

Whoever has opposed this weapon has ended up being made a new weapon in turn, after his death. Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, the list is endless....

 

We should ask ourselves whether we really need such a concept. Is there no other way of making the humans behave peacefully and in discipline? Can we not judge our actions as good or bad by looking at their outcomes for the long term good or bad of the majority of the people?

 

We have become short sighted. We elect leaders and give them powers only on the basis of our short term and emotional gains in mind. The Saddams, the Bushes, the Hitlers, etc, could not have been successful if these motives were not supported, knowingly or unknowingly, by us. Do these leaders really believe in anything like God? NO.

 

In my daily practice as an astrologer, I usually meet successful and aspiring politicians, religious leaders, Godmen, etc. And, believe me, this breed of humans do not believe in God. Their God is power. It has to be attained at all costs.

[Guest guest]

An intriguing post, carrying on from where Richard lefts us with his

stimulating philosophical insights about our existence.

 

Consider that when constructing a model, the theoriser relies heavily

on one key overriding assumption that enables the fundamentals of the

model to function in a plausible manner.

 

Let's imagine for a moment imagine that 'God' is the key assumption

of the 'religious model'. Whether of not this assumption is correct

is irrelevant as long as it enables the 'model' to function in line

with the purpose for which it is constructed. This purpose in this

case being, of course, positive social behaviour.

 

Thus millions of 'religious' people behaving 'as if' there is a God

or operating under the 'assumption' that there is a God and the

subsequent implications for the after-life exerts a powerful force of

positive influence on the human brain.

 

After all, the scientific method is to construct, test and then

accept/reject a model on the basis of its success in achieving its

objective or satisfying its predictions. On this basis it would be

unscientific and irrational to reject the religious 'model' as it is

extremely robust in achieving its objectives and satisfying its

predictions (of improved human behaviour).

 

Of course the religious model just like any other

effective 'scientific' model can be manipulated for increasing power,

oppression or extremism. This is subject to the mind set of those

whose hands it falls in. But the trade-off in terms of the positive

results derived from the religious model vs the negative results

surely indicate that the positive results dominate? Therefore

the 'rejection' of this model at this juncture in time is neither

plausible nor scientific. However, as the words of Ashutosh imply,

the construction of a `superior' model that can further extend the

positive portion of this trade-off would certainly in scientific

terms lead to a transformatory evolution.

 

Would this be achieved by replacing that all-important 'assumption'

of God with an innovate notion? This would indeed be a giant leap for

mankind and certainly a prospect one is able to entertain when one is

faithful to the doctrine that propounds Kaliyug to be a metaphorical

crawling baby at this moment in time that will eventually begin to

walk. Maybe it is when such an alternative model gathers a popular

mass following that Kali will have truly risen to his feet.

 

But until then we shall continue to speculate. For that is all our

limited mortal mind in this limited lifetime gifts us the capacity to

indulge in, subconsciously aware that the real truth will only arrive

when we make our exit from this body.

 

Or will it?.............................

 

 

 

valist, "astrologerashutosh"

<astrologerashutosh wrote:

>

> When little kids inquire about a near one whom death has

taken away, they are told by older kids (like us) that God needed

them more and hence called them to his home.

>

> God is a concept which is positively appealing and can be

attributed all the reasons for the events which are otherwise not

understood by us. Whether there is God or not is a different

question, but the concept of God itself has a lot of benefits for

people whose emotional blocks do not permit them to think beyond a

certain point.

>

> It would have been good if this concept was utilised to

merely lift away the fears about death, poverty and disease. But, the

more clever ones of us grown up kids have found this concept and its

hold on other not so clever kids to be a potent weapon to attain

power over these not so clever ones.

>

> The Popes, Mullahs, Priests, Pandits, politicians,

dictators, etc, have been utilising this weapon to be in

unquestionable powerful positions since ages. In all cultures,

regions, countries, in all times, this has happened and will keep on

happening always.

>

> Whoever has opposed this weapon has ended up being made a

new weapon in turn, after his death. Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, the

list is endless....

>

> We should ask ourselves whether we really need such a

concept. Is there no other way of making the humans behave peacefully

and in discipline? Can we not judge our actions as good or bad by

looking at their outcomes for the long term good or bad of the

majority of the people?

>

> We have become short sighted. We elect leaders and give

them powers only on the basis of our short term and emotional gains

in mind. The Saddams, the Bushes, the Hitlers, etc, could not have

been successful if these motives were not supported, knowingly or

unknowingly, by us. Do these leaders really believe in anything like

God? NO.

>

> In my daily practice as an astrologer, I usually meet

successful and aspiring politicians, religious leaders, Godmen, etc.

And, believe me, this breed of humans do not believe in God. Their

God is power. It has to be attained at all costs.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Atma Gnan (Knowledge of Soul) and Ashutosh (Siva, ³easily pleased²)

>From Richard (Heart of a King)

 

Friends, Komrades!

 

On the religious model verse scientific,

 

Atma spoke about whether one is better for the huddled masses.

 

Well, here¹s what I have to say on that:

 

Fact is, people don¹t easily change. The Hare Krishna movement pushed books

by a staunch religionist (Prabhupada) into people¹s hands worldwide, and

nothing happened. Mostly the books went to heaven in the landfill and used

book stores, all of which have many stacks of these books.

 

I was talking to a Jyotish practicing friend in Ireland the other day, and

she related how the Catholics just won¹t budge. No matter how hard you try,

their conception is so deeply engrained into them, and they believe they are

right.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can¹t make him drink.

 

So really, to discuss these matters is for those who are ³there², or, ³at

that point². Real thinkers are rare- that is, persons whose karma it is to

be able to, and actually wanting to, consider, think, and discuss various

options on how to think about the cosmos and the reality of the soul. Most

people want nothing of that. Rather, they want only more of the same which

they are used to. They are continuing ³In the name of the father....², so

to speak.

 

So there¹s no point in fancifully considering ³what if² as regards this

matter. It won¹t change.

 

Actually, nothing is changeable just because we will it to change. Sure,

society changes slowly over time, but it cannot be changed by the agreement

of any committee, or the presence of any occupying force. It does it when

it wants to, when it¹s ready.

 

Illuminating examples in my mind: Why would any IRA gunman in Ireland want

to fight for more independence and freedom for Ireland and it¹s people (from

British rule), when all they seem to do with the freedoms they already won

in 1922 or so is follow the oppression of priests and nuns?

 

Similarly, I find it unbelievable that Iraqi based fighters who are trying

to remove the US presence are doing so knowing, even hoping, that Sarira law

will later come in and be imposed upon them. If I were them, I¹d be helping

the US kick everything, including Islam, out of there.

 

So, people are who they are, and no amount of discussion by smart people

will change the dumb masses. That¹s a scientific fact, and religious fact.

By religious ³fact², I mean simply this: Krishna says in the Gita ³do not

disturb the minds of the ignorant, instead, encourage them to continue in

religious devotions². So basically the supposed God is himself saying to

encourage religious mind slavery. Why? Because smart people know that

when you unsettle the minds of the dumb masses, you wake a sleeping dog, and

all hell is gonna break loose if that¹s done.

 

Only really rare saints actually follow religious principle when the going

gets tough. When the masses are aroused, they loose control of themselves,

and begin to fight, loot, murder, seek retribution for many remembered past

wrongs, gangs form, civil wars get going, etc.

 

Religioun keeps a lid on a lot of that, maintains a status quo of goodness

and order, true. Studies have shown that where there are the MORE temples,

there is MORE violence, and where there are NO temples, there is MORE

violence, and where there is a MEDIUM number of temples, there you find more

peace and order. So too much or too little religion tends to cause violence

amongst humans, was the conclusion.

 

Hare Krishna devotees ignored Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, and any and all

other persons with an opinion outside of their own. That I know for a fact..

They believe in Prabhupada and his kind, period, no other. That is very

typical of religious people- to further their own party line, only.

 

So, again, the talks of smart people don¹t matter. It¹s all about

speculating for OUR OWN benefit alone. It¹s all theoretical only.

 

Perhaps however, one of the smart will DO SOMETHING based on their findings,

which TOUCHES the masses, and that is where change happens. I bet Jesus

thought a lot, in a smart way, before he started his preaching mission.

Like that. I think that thinking well, sometimes leads to actions, which

change the course of history.

 

The fact is WE DON¹T KNOW if there is exactly a God, or what exactly He or

She is like, or what the nature of the SOURCE really is, but we can infer,

and we have the inferences of the thinkers before us, and on we go.

 

I still believe that there is SOME GREAT SOURCE and it remains for me A

GREAT MYSTERY, and for me, that doesn¹t ³free me to sin², because I CAN SEE

that ³what you do comes back at you² to a BASIC FACT of this creation. I

can see that because I¹m smart. I can see that others, many, do NOT see

that, because they are dumb.

 

Se la vie

 

Peace smart brothers and sisters, and, whatever, to you dumb ones,

 

Richard Edward Wurst

 

 

 

Richard Edward Wurst

aka Das Goravani

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[Guest guest]

Richard,

 

May Lord Ganesh remove all obstacles from your path and grant you peace and

prosperity!

 

Two things come to me as I read your response. Metaphorically,

 

1. It makes little sense to me.meaning I agree with you and the cited

scripture, to stand on the mountain top (or anywhere on the mountain that is

above the masses living at the base of the mountain) and shout to them, "Why

can't you see the glory of all that I see?"

 

2. I must remember that I, at one time, was living at the base of the

mountain; and it took me overcoming my fears (of heights.no; of the hurt I

would experience if I moved from my comfortable place at the base of the

mountain) to start my climb up the mountain. I believe the scripture is

saying that change must come from within and not from any reason (or desire)

to please someone else.

 

It is not a matter of "smart" versus "dumb" in the usual sense of those

words due to the often inferred meaning associated with these words; i.e.,

something along the line of "big me, little you". As Dr. David R. Hawkins

says in his books "Power Versus Force" and "Eye of the I", truth exists at

many different levels (of understanding and belief). This is much like the

situation of the four blind men describing an elephant based on touching

different parts of the animal. It is all a matter of perspective. I believe

you to be saying this, too.

 

That which is "A Great Mystery" to you is exactly what the Native Americans

call "God". Hmmmm, I wonder if these are the same <smile>.

 

Namaste, David LaGrone

 

P. O. Box 2339

 

Glen Rose, TX 76043

 

 

 

dvdlagr (AT) valornet (DOT) com