(non Ammachi) and other gurus

[Guest guest]

> Sweta Mitzel <swetabc wrote:

> Om Namah Shivaya Mike,

>

> I've received 2 first hand reports of Amma giving instructions not

to see other Gurus. Recently, a devotee wrote that Amma brought this

up in MI, & was extremely, lucidly clear in what She was saying about

it. It's been said that seeing other Gurus, can be likened to being

unfaithful in a marriage.

 

 

Amma will definately say this in a large event like this in Michigan,

as this is her general rule about the guru/disciple relationship, but

keep in mind there may be exceptions. As Someone once told in a most

interesting post on the Free-Speech Zone that Amma once told her that

she gives very generic advice because she is like the headmaster in a

school that puts all grades together and she needs to keep the whole

group homogenic...if she told some truths it might cause people to

lose faith...that is how much faith they really have.

 

There may be times when it is fine to visit other realized souls and

there are many great gurus who have encouraged it...take Sw.

Sivananda of the Divine Life Society for example. To have the darshan

and satsang of a great soul is a beautiful thing and to become overly

paranoid about it thinking one is doing wrong and being unfaithful I

think shows lack of faith on the other extreme side of the scale. One

needs balance and discrimination on the path to see that all great

beings are One, and perhaps it is because most of Amma's unseasoned

devotees don't completely have this that she must be so extreme in

her discipline, especially if she knows they may get mixed up with

false teachers, etc. It is best to study a guru for some time if one

is uncertain and then when one is certain to follow a guru to be true

and faithful, no doubt. But I also feel one shouldn't become super-

paranoid about it.

 

There are exceptions to every rule on the path to the Divine. There

was a great saint living in Tirunvanamalai (forgot his name) who

spoke about having 3 great fathers in his life time. He spent many

years living in Pondicherry Ashram with Sri Aurobindo as his guide

and guru, then was moved to Tirunvanamali to be with Ramana Maharshi,

and then he said he was finished off by Papa Ramdas who initiated him

into the Ram mantra which he repeated constantly. These were 3

powerful souls of that era...who's to say he was right or wrong to

follow all 3 of them...he eventually found God in this way. Is it

right or is it wrong? There is no logic to this question, since he

found God through it. But Amma, on the most part, is dealing with

spiritual babies and she says what she says for our own good. Some of

us may fall through the cracks, and some of us may be the better for

it. I just encourage everyone to think very deeply and broadly into

the matter before making any fast rules.

 

Sita

[Guest guest]

Namah Shviaya,

 

I've seen other Gurus since being intiated by Amma. But, after a devotee said she wrote to Amma about it after this forum's discussion, & Amma said that she was right, that's good enough for me. In Daughter of Fire, which Amma has reportedly recommended to some people, the Guru states that obedience is one of the things necessary for receiving Grace. Our Guru is one with God & can give anything, so why would I want to deliberately go outside of Her instructions?

 

When I asked one of Amma's swamis about this issue some time ago, he replied, "It is not good to do Guru shopping. While one cannot even deal with one Guru, how can one handle any?"

 

It's true that I can speak only for myself. Without paranoia or fear, I see it's best for me to strive to be lovingly devoted to & to try to have faith in just one Guru, Amma.

 

Sweta

 

sitaram54 <sitaram54 > wrote: > Sweta Mitzel <swetabc wrote:

> Om Namah Shivaya Mike,

>

> I've received 2 first hand reports of Amma giving instructions not

to see other Gurus. Recently, a devotee wrote that Amma brought this

up in MI, & was extremely, lucidly clear in what She was saying about

it. It's been said that seeing other Gurus, can be likened to being

unfaithful in a marriage.

 

 

...To have the darshan

and satsang of a great soul is a beautiful thing and to become overly

paranoid about it thinking one is doing wrong and being unfaithful I

think shows lack of faith on the other extreme side of the scale. One

needs balance and discrimination on the path to see thmma's uat all great

beings are One, and perhaps it is because most of Anseasoned

devotees don't completely have this that she must be so extreme in

her discipline, especially if she knows they may get mixed up with

false teachers, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Do you think anyone who receives the darshan of another spiritual figure is "guru

shopping?" I don't necessarily think that's accurate or fair.... ~ Iswari

 

Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc wrote:

>

> Namah Shviaya,

>

> I've seen other Gurus since being intiated by Amma. But, after a devotee said she wrote

to Amma about it after this forum's discussion, & Amma said that she was right, that's

good enough for me. In Daughter of Fire, which Amma has reportedly recommended to

some people, the Guru states that obedience is one of the things necessary for receiving

Grace. Our Guru is one with God & can give anything, so why would I want to deliberately

go outside of Her instructions?

>

> When I asked one of Amma's swamis about this issue some time ago, he replied, "It is

not good to do Guru shopping. While one cannot even deal with one Guru, how can one

handle any?"

>

> It's true that I can speak only for myself. Without paranoia or fear, I see it's best for me

to strive to be lovingly devoted to & to try to have faith in just one Guru, Amma.

>

> Sweta

>

> sitaram54 <sitaram54 wrote: > Sweta Mitzel <swetabc@>

wrote:

> > Om Namah Shivaya Mike,

> >

> > I've received 2 first hand reports of Amma giving instructions not

> to see other Gurus. Recently, a devotee wrote that Amma brought this

> up in MI, & was extremely, lucidly clear in what She was saying about

> it. It's been said that seeing other Gurus, can be likened to being

> unfaithful in a marriage.

>

>

> ..To have the darshan

> and satsang of a great soul is a beautiful thing and to become overly

> paranoid about it thinking one is doing wrong and being unfaithful I

> think shows lack of faith on the other extreme side of the scale. One

> needs balance and discrimination on the path to see thmma's uat all great

> beings are One, and perhaps it is because most of Anseasoned

> devotees don't completely have this that she must be so extreme in

> her discipline, especially if she knows they may get mixed up with

> false teachers, etc.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ONS

 

In Daughter of Fire, Irena Tweedie had to give

everything she had to her Guru. All of her wealth and

every treasured thought or teaching regarding

spiritual life. In one of their many heated dialogs,

and there were many, as she was a very spirited, tough

cookie (and got angry with him many times!), she even

had to give up the idea of reincarnation.

 

He said to her..."Everything Must Go".

 

On that note, all of our ideas and judgments on

everything in this life is within this category.

 

The more natural way to approach this whole topic

would be to search within for an answer...and to even

ask Amma, if this is unclear. But I would not base

your personal experience and choices on anyone else's

teaching (amma devotee)or relationship with Amma.

 

It is well known that the Guru will do anything in

order to bring the devotee to liberation. It starts

with gradual tests...and then all h---- can break

loose during the finale...

 

The Guru will break down ones mental, emotional and

psychological patterns completely.

 

Anyway, I will not give away the whole book or the

whole process....it is better to discover on your own.

 

Another thing that I have most recently experienced

with Amma is that she is open to anything happening in

our lives if it is for our highest good. And if we are

open and trusting, she will bring to us exactly what

we need. This can come in any form, or experience.

 

If we come to her with trust and allow ourselves to be

innocent...then all and anything is possible.

 

It might be best to put aside this conversation and

look at what it is you truly want from your life at

this time.....and allow Her to take you there.

 

--- ammasiswari <ammasiswari > wrote:

 

> Do you think anyone who receives the darshan of

> another spiritual figure is "guru

> shopping?" I don't necessarily think that's accurate

> or fair.... ~ Iswari

>

> Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel

> <swetabc wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shviaya,

> >

> > I've seen other Gurus since being intiated by

> Amma. But, after a devotee said she wrote

> to Amma about it after this forum's discussion, &

> Amma said that she was right, that's

> good enough for me. In Daughter of Fire, which Amma

> has reportedly recommended to

> some people, the Guru states that obedience is one

> of the things necessary for receiving

> Grace. Our Guru is one with God & can give

> anything, so why would I want to deliberately

> go outside of Her instructions?

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Iswari,

If you read Sweta's post again you will see that she was just quoting

one of Amma's swamis, and he is the one who made the comment about "Guru

Shopping", not Sweta. I think if we each follow our own hearts in this

case, we will all do what is right for our own growth and

good..Especially if Amma resides in our own hearts. Then we can do no

wrong...In Amma's Service, mare

 

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:17:15 -0000 "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari >

writes:

> Do you think anyone who receives the darshan of another spiritual

> figure is "guru

> shopping?" I don't necessarily think that's accurate or fair.... ~

> Iswari

>

> Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc wrote:

> >

> > Namah Shviaya,

> > When I asked one of Amma's swamis about this issue some time ago,

> he replied, "It is

> not good to do Guru shopping. While one cannot even deal with one

> Guru, how can one

> handle any?"

> >

> > It's true that I can speak only for myself. Without paranoia or

> fear, I see it's best for me

> to strive to be lovingly devoted to & to try to have faith in just

> one Guru, Amma.

> >

> > Sweta

[Guest guest]

Ammachi, Sweta Mitzel <swetabc wrote:

> When I asked one of Amma's swamis about this issue some time ago, he

replied, "It is not good to do Guru shopping. While one cannot even

deal with one Guru, how can one handle any?"

 

Just to have the darshan of a great soul isn't necessarily guru

shopping, it's just having darshan. Why not think of mahatmas as our

friends and not just going guru shopping?

 

Sita

[Guest guest]

this is a very interesting and important discussion! i echo iswari's

question. is it possible there is a distinction between going to visit

another self-realized soul to pay one's respects versus going to see

another Guru for advice or instruction?

 

for me, i would never consider the latter. but for example, in my

family, my in-laws have a different guru. if i'm in delhi, it would be

rude for me not to visit their guru's ashram with them. also, should

this stop them from coming with me to visit Mother?

[Guest guest]

Namah Shivaya,

 

It seems that this discussion is coming up for this

very reason.

 

There are many on this list who do come to Amma for a

blessing and many who have taken Amma as their Guru.

 

Amma is unique in that she welcomes everyone and has

an interest in mentoring anyone who wishes to go into

spiritual life.

 

If you study the lives of other Mahatmas, within the

Sanatana Dharma, their are many who only take on a few

truly dedicated disciples.

 

There are Gurus who teach in such a way as to be role

models for others, as they themselves are not

Satguru's or perfect Masters.

 

There are many Divine Incarnations who live in remote

and private locations and serve the world by

meditation and doing tapas.

 

There are Avatars who serve as role models and give

darshan to anyone. Their message is to follow the path

that is within the heart.

 

>From the little bit of experience that I have with

meeting Gurus in person, is that they welcome anyone

and give satsang, shaktipat, or darshan and teach what

they came here to teach. You have to decide whether or

not you want to stay with them.

 

I think it is common, especially for Westerners who

have been brought up in a completely materialistic

culture, that is spiritually devoid, to go to several

teachers (if lucky enough to find them) to take it all

in, and naturally one will be drawn to the right

person.

 

I have seen many people recently that I have met

through another Guru, who are now going to Amma's

retreats. These people have taken initiation with this

other Guru and do follow him. But they are drawn to

Amma as well.

 

It could be that they are able to learn certain things

from Ammachi that they are not able to get from their

Guru.

 

Or maybe with someone else their Guru is not in the

body right now, and thus Ammachi, or another can

fulfill a missing need.

 

There is also the case, as with Ammachi, that there

are certain people, who are her disciples in this

lifetime, who most definitely came here to serve and

help Her with Her mission and this is probably true

for all Mahatmas who serve in this way.

 

This is why we should honor all paths, as on our list

alone, we have people who fit into all of these

categories.

 

 

--- carma <vaishnovi108 > wrote:

 

> this is a very interesting and important discussion!

> i echo iswari's

> question. is it possible there is a distinction

> between going to visit

> another self-realized soul to pay one's respects

> versus going to see

> another Guru for advice or instruction?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sweta, Stacee and others,

 

I am not taking sides

All points are valid

Keeping in mind that words are

At best only pointers to ultimate reality

At worst blocks to ultimate reality

And they can be the same words

How we make use of them

Our attitude is most important

 

Amma says, "Do everything with Love"

and "One way for all is dangerous"

 

So, whatever discipline or one pointedness

we wish to impose on ourself

we need to refrain from trying to impose on others

 

If our conviction comes from the Silence of the Heart,

we will not need outside support

to help us overcome our fears

Not that I'm against it

Except that too much outside support

May prevent from looking inside

 

When someone agrees with us

that may prevent us from looking deeper within

 

In this respect disagreements are to be welcomed

"Thank You Very Much" should be our response

 

The Spiritual Heart is fearless

 

Here are some relevent word pointers

that sort of resolve the issue for me

from "Silence of the Heart" :

 

Q: I have a question. I have been reading a lot about a few people in

Ramana's time. Just by a look or even a hug .... There is a story of

Annamalai. Ramana ran over to Annamalai, hugged him for two minutes,

and he became spontaneously enlightened. And then he spent the next

thirty-eight years stabilizing in that, and then certain other cases

..... So I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about

transmission.

 

R: Yes. Remember that Annamalai Swami was not an ordinary person. He

was extraordinary because he had been in the teachings many years. He

had prepared himself and he was very humble, filled with humility.

 

Q: He was just a boy when it happened.

 

R: Yes, he had a joy in his Heart, and looked at Ramana as the Divine

Universe. Ramana was the whole Universe to him. So he had something

inside of him, so when Ramana hugged him and loved him that way, what

was left dropped away, and he became enlightened. Now this is true of

us too. We're not different from Annamalai, except that with us, we

have such things in our heads that keep us back from being ourselves,

we are filled with our own garbage. And when this happens we have a

long way to go. So we must first develop humility. We have to develop

love, peace. If we stop thinking so much about person, place and

things, the sage will give you a hug, or whatever and it will happen

to you, too, depending on the person, depending on what's going on,

depending on circumstances. There are no mistakes. Everything is in

its right place.

 

Q: So, Robert, that transmission is radiating all the time. It's not

that Ramana just all of a sudden turned on the juice, to that one person.

 

R: Yes, exactly.

 

Q: And it's just that the person has to be receptive and open so that

the transmission can be received.

 

R: Indeed, very true. Grace is always with you. There is never a time

when Grace is not. It's up to you to receive it in the right way, by

preparing yourself. And the best way you can prepare yourself is to

keep the mind still and quiet.

 

Q: How can a seeker maximize his serious relationship with the sage?

What can he do to make the relationship deeper?

 

R: Simply by sitting with the Jnani all day long. When you're home,

where you're working, think of the sage. When you think of the sage's

form, the sage's name, things will begin to happen to you. Find peace.

Try it. Then you will be with the sage continuously. Whenever you

think of a living sage, the sage becomes part of your Heart, it's the

complete Heart. And you feel the love of the sage within you. So if

you think of the sage, the sage will think of you. Whatever you think

about, that you become ultimately. So you have to be very careful what

you think about. Whatever you think about, you become. Think of the

sage, you become the sage.

 

Q: Robert, in talking with some satsang people, some of them say that,

"I cannot do much of Self-inquiry, " or some of them also say, "I

don't care much for Self-inquiry," or, "What I want to do is go and

sit with Robert." Would you comment on that?

 

R: Well, what can I say? Actually, our being together at satsang is

the entire teaching. The words are merely a pointer.

 

Amma Bless,

amarnath

PS ~ Think of Amma and become Amma!

[Guest guest]

Dear Amarnath,

Thank you for this. I cannot tell you how many times your posts have

helped me...In Amma's Service, mare

 

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:43:21 -0000 "amarnath" <anatol_zinc >

writes:

> Namaste Sweta, Stacee and others,

>

> I am not taking sides

> All points are valid

> Keeping in mind that words are

> At best only pointers to ultimate reality

> At worst blocks to ultimate reality

> And they can be the same words

> How we make use of them

> Our attitude is most important

>

> Amma says, "Do everything with Love"

> and "One way for all is dangerous"

 

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