More understanding....

[Guest guest]

Om Shivaya Namaha.

 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on Rebirth. As a beginner of

Sadhna, for the past one week i have just started sitting silently,

trying to get rid of thoughts out of my mind for 1/2 an hour in the

early morning ( which is like next to imposible )before starting

regular sadhna. Today during the end of this, i had this thought and

doubht.

 

Since iam have not read the upanishad or vedas ( i have finalise to

learn Sanskrit from dec just for this reason to learn Upanishad and

Vedas), can you pls clear me this doubht.

 

You have very well explained me the concept of rebirths, but what

makes one to give birth for the first time? Its clear that due to

karma one gives re birth, but what makes one to be born for the first

time?

 

And by giving birth first time why is he forced to do bad karma? And

by the first time born which is the birth he takes either as a human

or as something else?

 

If i was born for the first time as an animal or a plant what bad

karma is a plant or animal makes to give a rebirth?

 

Once again i am not trying to make any point but wish to clarify

myself, as i am very illiterate in this sense.

 

Thanks for clarifying my earlier confusion.

 

Thanks and Best Regards

Senthil.

Shivaya nama Aum.

Thiruchitrambalam.

[Guest guest]

A few comments:

 

1. Why do you think you have to learn Sanskrit to read

Vedas/Upanishads? I cant even read Hindi properly, yet I have read

them! The best book on the Vedas, the Secret of the Vedas by Sri

Aurobindo, is available in English, & most Indian languages. For

Upanishads, in my opinion Oshos(Rajneesh) books are the best, as he

not only explains deeper hidden meanings, but gives practical,

meditation advice as well.

 

2. The practice of trying to control your mind is very difficult, but

well worth it! In fact, simple excersises like watching your thoughts

or your breath are the most powerful, but people don't usually do them

as they are very difficult, & show no results in the beginning.

Instead of directly forcing mind to stop, its better to focus on

breath, as control of Pran brings control of Mind, & vice versa.

 

About your other questions, its a bit complicated, & a long reply is

required, which I will post later.

[Guest guest]

Senthilji, there are several ways to answer this question, but the

explanation of Tantra is best, so I will give that.

 

The Universal soul(called Shiv in Tantra, different from the God of

death with same name-Shiv here is more like the Turiya State), who

always lives in bliss, had a desire to create, to share his bliss.

This small desire caused half of him to separte into his Shakti, or

Energy, who is also the Divine Mother. This was the 1st Karma.

 

Shakti created all the Worlds, matter, the Gunas(qualities) & all the

demi-Gods & demons. Finally, she got tired(or was full of Tamoguna),

so she became a stone, & stopped at that.

 

All this has been done for the enjoyment of Shiv, who like to discover

himself. So he delibrately puts a veil of ignorance on himself(Maya).

Then he tries to find himself. There is no difference between Shiv &

Shakti, thats why in Tantra Maya is not an evil force, as it is in

Shankara's Adwait.

 

All plants, animals, even stones have a part of this Universal Soul,

though under ignorance. Hindus have always believed in theory of

evolution- each soul has to start at stone level, & move upto plant,

then animal, then human. We believe even the stone is consciouss,

though it is so full of Tamogun it cannot express itself.

 

Before humans, this evolution is completely controlled by Shakti.

Animals & plants have no free will, so no Karma.

 

Humans have free will. So the question arises how do they create Karma

for the 1st time? The 1st Karma was obviously when Shiv/Shakti created

the Universe. When souls reach the level of humans, they too get the

power of free will.

 

**BUT**, there is a catch- the more free will you use, the less you

have. The less you use, the more you have.

 

Most people enjoy life without giving anything back to God, so they

becomes tools of higher forces(& sometimes demonic too), who twist

them & force them to work for the Divine will.

 

If however, you surrender to God, & dedicate all actions to him, you

arent bound by Karma. We are bound be laws of Karma only because we

think we are- it is at all times God who does all actions.

 

Thats why I said- the more free will you use, the less you have. By

thinking yourself as the doer, you tie yourself to the Action & hence

to its result. This is also why Rishis have so much power, they always

dedicate everything to God, so anything they do has the power of God-

they can even turn away death.

 

 

To summarise- all action is done by Shiv/Shakti, but we get tied down

by thinking we are the doers. The real Yagya(sacrifice), as talked

about in the Vedas & Gita, is the sacrifice of the Self in the Fire of

Truth. If we do it willingly, we become divine, & can rise above our

petty limitations. But we refuse to perform this yagya, Higher powers

like Indra, Rudra will grab our throat & force us to do it anyway. Its

not action thats binding, but attachment to action.

 

There is a small story about this. Once a Yogi got on a train, but he

kept his bag on his head. When other people asked him why, he said the

train would become heavy if he kept his bag down. The people laughed

at his foolishness & said that it was actually the train that was

bearing his & the bags weight anyway, so it made no difference .

 

The Yogi said he was just trying to do what normal people do. Shakti

does all actions, yet we think it is our greatness, that we should be

rewarded for our work. So we foolishly keep the heavy bag of Karma on

our head & trouble ourself.

 

So you can throw the bag away, & stop worrying about Karma & rebirth,

since whether you worry or not makes no difference to the Shakti, who

is the actual doer.

[Guest guest]

I should briefly give the views of Sri Aurobindo, who doesnt beleive

in the Theory of Karma & rebirth, at least as taught & understood by

most Hindus.

 

Sri Aurobindo says that Good/Bad Karma are just labels we have

randomly selected- that which gives pleasure to our body is good, that

which gives pain is bad. So we give to charity/poor people so we can

have comfotable lives, & we never become poor & experience pain of body.

 

Under his theory, even asking for Moksha/Nirvana is a form of this

pleasure/pain experience, as it assumes that the physical body is full

of pain, & by getting Moksha/Nirvana, we will be free of it. This is

what everyone in the last 5,000 years has taught- Shankaracharya,

Buddha, Ramanajun & almost every other philsopher. Get Moksha so you

can escape the pain & sadness of the body.

 

But Sri Aurobindo moves in a different direction- he asks why do we

label some things as painful/sad? Thats because our consciousness is

fixed on this limited body, & we judge all our experiences on how this

body is effected. If we raise our conciousness to Higher planes like

Supremind(called Vigyan, or Mahas, the golden plane where the Sun of

knowledge always shines)-this silly difference between good & bad will

disappear. Then we will realise everything happens by the Divine Will,

there is no pain, only Divine Bliss.

 

When we can feel happy even in pain, then are ready to progress beyond

limited human thinking & body.

[Guest guest]

, "senthil_sym" <senthil_sym

wrote:

>

> Om Shivaya Namaha.

>

> Thanks for sharing your knowledge on Rebirth. As a beginner of

> Sadhna, for the past one week i have just started sitting

silently,

> trying to get rid of thoughts out of my mind for 1/2 an hour in

the

> early morning ( which is like next to imposible )before starting

> regular sadhna.

>------------------------

 

yes that is a good start...sitting silently. But try watching

your thought waves as Sakshi, then it will become a good sadhna

--------------------------

> Since iam have not read the upanishad or vedas ( i have finalise

to

> learn Sanskrit from dec just for this reason to learn Upanishad

and

> Vedas), can you pls clear me this doubht.

> -----------------------

There is no need waste years on learning Sanskrit. You can read

Upanishadas in english/tamil translations. Ganesh & Co. in Chennai,

is known for such books..try there

-------------------------

> You have very well explained me the concept of rebirths, but what

> makes one to give birth for the first time? Its clear that due to

> karma one gives re birth, but what makes one to be born for the

first

> time?

>

> And by giving birth first time why is he forced to do bad karma?

And

> by the first time born which is the birth he takes either as a

human

> or as something else?

>

> If i was born for the first time as an animal or a plant what bad

> karma is a plant or animal makes to give a rebirth?

>

> Once again i am not trying to make any point but wish to clarify

> myself, as i am very illiterate in this sense.

>

-------------------------

 

The soul first awakens into chemicals and as the awakening

increases, it transits through plants,animals and finally reaches

humans. As humans we become out of the clutches of Prakriti for our

daily karama...means we dont work with instict but with our own

Viveka. Hence we form Karma.

 

If a lion kills a fawn and eats it, he is not a sinner, because

Mother Nature is forcing him to do...whereas if human kills an

enfant it is big sin...because he has a comparative free will to

kill or not to kill.

 

As humans too we learn our lessons slowly...first we work fully

for own self to survive, then we do a yoga with our family and live

for our family...then a yoga with society and we live for the

society and then for nations. Thus each time our Viveka broadens,

our free will to choose Karma also broadens...and hence our chances

of creating bad karma increase.

 

A savage man perhaps did not create bad karma by killing and

eating all himself without sharing... but todays man if earns for

his own stomach, it is a sin...because his viveka has since broadens

enough and he has to refrain from selfish acts.

 

Human life is a crossing where one road goes back to Asuras,

animals and other lower births...another road goes to better

humans...third road goes to Devas and heavens and the fourth road

goes to Moksha.

 

It is for the free will (our viveka) that we can chose any road.

All other forms of existences be it animals etc or higher existences

like Devas...are all Bhoga Yonis. They do not make new KARMA...Even

Devas like Indra and other demi gods have to come back as human

beings to get Mokshna

 

Moksha is only available in Human form...and that is the beauty of

human life !!

 

With Love