Plans to increase the date range in GJ?

[Guest guest]

I found an old post of mine from 2002. Still unanswered.

 

Richard/Das -- are posts from GJList still accessable? Thats where the

bulk of my old posts are. i would like to see and review some of them.

 

How can I access the old GJlist?

 

----

 

 

Any thoughts on this from a Jyotish perspective?

 

Das, are there any plans to increase the date range in your program

to cover BCE periods so that we can look at astrological events such

as this, as well as many vedic events?

 

-----------------------------

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/miller/miller122102.asp

 

Twinkle, Twinkle

 

December 21, 2002 5:20 p.m. National Review

 

An Astronomer says the Star of Bethlehem was Jupiter.

 

 

If the Star of Bethlehem were to appear in the sky tonight, you

probably wouldn't even notice it. It wasn't a blazing comet, an

exploding supernova, or any of the other spectacular celestial events

people in search of a natural explanation have proposed. Instead,

says astronomer Michael Molnar, it was the planet Jupiter appearing

in the sign of Aries and rising in the east on the morning of April

17, 6 B.C.

 

If that doesn't sound like a big deal, it's because you're thinking

like someone who lives in the 21st century. Two millennia ago, it

would have sparked the imaginations of expert stargazers — and

signaled the birth of a king.

 

"I never believed I would work on this topic," says Molnar, a former

Rutgers University professor. "I just figured the Star of Bethlehem

was one of those mysteries in the Bible."

 

The detective story behind Molnar's theory starts with a coin he

bought at a New York show in 1990. "My hobby is collecting ancient

Greek and Roman coins that have stars and moons on them," says

Molnar. "For $50, I bought a bronze coin that's about the size of an

American quarter. It has Zeus on one side and Aries the ram with a

star above it on the other."

 

A few months later, Molnar started to examine the coin closely. He

writes for numismatic publications such as The Celator, and began to

research what he considered to be the most interesting feature on his

coin: the star above Aries the ram. Among ancient astrologers, Molnar

learned, Aries the ram was a symbol of Judea. "I realized that Aries

is where ancient astrologers would have been looking for a sign

indicating the birth of a new king," he says. "With the coin, I had

stumbled across this really important clue."

 

Molnar described a few initial ideas about the Star of Bethlehem in

an article for Sky and Telescope magazine. He thought his involvement

would end there. Then the dean of historical astronomy called

him. "I'd read articles and books by Owen Gingerich of Harvard

University, but we'd never spoken," says Molnar. "His call came

completely out of the blue, and he said he thought I was really onto

something. This encouraged me to do more research."

 

He worked on the question for five years, studying Greek versions of

the Bible and the writings of Roman astronomers. "Today we know

Jupiter is a planet, but to the ancient astronomers it was an

important star, and it was linked to the birth of kings," says

Molnar. The position of other planets, plus the sun and the moon,

also carried special meanings. Today, astronomers and astrologers are

very different sorts of people. Twenty centuries ago, however, there

wasn't a distinction.

 

Working on a computer, Molnar learned that the morning of April 17, 6

B.C. contained all the elements he was looking for: Jupiter rose in

the east, in the sign of Aries the ram. Joining it in Aries were the

sun, the moon, and Saturn — events that would have added to the

moment's extraordinary significance for the ancients.

 

"The basic elements of this event occur once every 60 years — in

other words, once a lifetime," says Molnar.

 

But there's more: Mars and Mercury weren't in Aries, and they also

weren't in positions that would have wrecked the divine

interpretation. Mars is notorious for upending astrological events by

showing up in the wrong part of the sky when everything else is in

seeming alignment.

 

"If you think like an ancient astronomer would have thought, this

event would have been extraordinarily exciting," says Molnar.

 

The account describing the Star of Bethlehem is contained wholly

within the Gospel of Matthew — the other gospels don't mention it at

all — lending credence to the idea that the star didn't light up the

night sky like a 4th of July fireworks display. A close reading of

the Bible suggests that nobody saw the star but the wise men, which

may be a way of saying that only the wise men had the astrological

knowledge necessary for interpreting the events of April 17 the way

they did.

 

Many Biblical scholars believe the birth of Jesus probably occurred

between 8 B.C. and 4 B.C. The event Molnar describes took place in 6

B.C. — "right smack dab in the middle," he says.

 

Molnar describes his ideas in detail in his 1999 book, The Star of

Bethlehem: The Legacy of the Magi. It was written mainly for

scholars, but intelligent and interested lay readers won't have

trouble following his arguments. It may be impossible to know whether

Molnar has provided a correct interpretation, but it is possible to

believe he has offered a very good one. (He also has a worthwhile

website, which includes additional information, pictures of coins,

etc.)

 

Bradley E. Schaefer of the University of Texas calls Molnar's

book, "the first revolution in star of Bethlehem research since the

days of Kepler." Adds Gingerich of Harvard: "The Star of Bethlehem is

a fascinating contribution to the immense literature that attempts to

come to terms with the Christmas Star represented in Matthew's

Gospel. In my opinion, this book is the most original and important

contribution of the entire twentieth century on the thorny question

of how events recorded there should be interpreted."

 

I asked Molnar whether he is a man of faith himself. "I don't discuss

my faith," he says. "I stay religiously neutral. I like to say that

I'm faithful to the historical record; there's definitely a

historical basis for that passage in the Bible. I get letters from

all sorts of people telling me that my book has reinforced their

faith, and this has been an unexpected and pleasing result."

 

Molnar would like to put out a popular version of his book. "I'm

thinking of a coffee-table book with lots of pictures," he

says. "Something less technical." He'd also like to update his

technical account, because more information has come to his attention

since it was published three years ago, particularly about the magi

and who they might have been.

 

But for now, we have a wonderful book written by a scientist that

emboldens people of faith — who in the past have felt threatened by

astronomers telling them the earth isn't the center of the universe,

the sun is a fairly minor body on the outskirts of an ordinary

galaxy, and that the moment of creation occurred 15 billion years ago

in a big bang.

 

Yes, Virginia, there really was a Star of Bethlehem.

[Guest guest]

Hello Richard,

 

This list only recently changed name from GJ to VA.

All the posts you found on the group site going back

to Apr 2000 are GJlist. But prior to that the list was

on a different server (I THINK) and whoever they were,

I think they're toast now so you can't access messages

prior to Apr 2000. Sorry.

 

Thank you, though, for mentioning old posts. I went to

the group site to try to find when exactly I joined in

2001 (yes, I'm bored) and had a very enjoyable time

reading posts and recognizing names I no longer hear

from anymore.

 

I found a very good post by Rick/Das that I'm

attaching below. He might cringe over small specifics

(Sorry Rick!) but I really enjoyed the overall concept

and thought it worth reposting.

 

So thank you Richard for a good time, and welcome back

to the list!

 

--Mary Quinn

 

Written by Richard Wurst/Das Goravani, Oct 2001:

 

Hello Dear List Members,

 

This is a Jyotish list. That means, it's about that

system of Astrology which comes from Ancient Indian

books, which are loosely known as "The Vedas". It is

therefore rightly called "A Hindu Science" more or

less.

 

It is related directly to God Consciousness as per the

rest of the Vedas. See for example the deities who all

the authors bow to in the first pages of their books.

It's always Krishna, Shiva, Ganesh, etc.

These are deities we learn of from Hindu books, or the

Vedic scriptures.

 

I am a follower of the Vedic Religion, and I started

this list. In fact, Goravani, actually spelled

Gauravani more correctly, refers to "the teachings of

Caitanya", who was a very Krishna Conscious teacher

(to put it mildly).

 

So this list, and Jyotish, are never separate from the

Vedic conception.

 

Jyotish shows us karma. Jyotish and Karma are both

undeniable, at least in my mind. This list is based on

the premise that they are real. This list is therefore

based on the premise that the soul transmigrates from

one body to another, or in other words, has many lives

in the material world.

 

Every 100 years there are "all new people" on Earth,

if we just see bodies. Everybody dies, and all new

people are born. When they are born, we do not know

which country they lived their last life in. I may

have lived in India. That is very likely. In this

life, I am more Hindu than anything else really. I've

already lived more years as a Hindu than anything else

prior. Who knows.

 

Countries are "Karmic Zones". They are places where

different types of karma are granted. If you are born

in America, it is because you are now due to reap some

good karma. If you are born in Somalia, then you are

destined to starve perhaps. If you are born in

Afghanistan, then you are destined to be bombed,

perhaps.

 

You are not your country. Souls have no countries.

Countries are part of a karmic package you receive at

birth. You are not actually related to your country as

a soul.

 

Jyotish does not pay any homage to this concept of

Nationalism, because Veda does not, because Spirit

does not, because Saints do not, because God does not.

Nationalism is ignorance, as far as Veda is concerned.

 

Separate from this fact however, is dharma. Dharma

means "duties". Part of your dharma is to serve your

country, but dharma is not the highest thing.

Therefore Krishna says "Sarva dharma parityaja..." in

Bhagavad Gita. "Give up dharma" he says. He doesn't

mean don't do it. He clearly tells Arjuna to go on

with his natural duties, but in his mind, not to

be attached, and not to identify there, but rather, to

identify as a soul above country, above body, above

current birth.

 

This list is supposed to be somewhat enlightened. Now

I realize there are all kinds of people getting into

Jyotish. Many still eat meat. Many still "hunt", if

you can believe that. Many still do all kinds of

things that are not normally a part of a typical Vedic

Person (Hindus) life style or belief system. We just

had Max on the list, who seems to live

for promoting America alone. Gosh.

 

But souls do not have countries, and on this list, the

tone should be like I'm writing right now. We should

be talking on the soul level. On that level, we see

everyone as equal. Everyone, or most people, are

identifying with their karmic package as "self" and

operating that way. Islam is a package, and America is

a package. Christianity is a package.

 

One thing about Hinduism is the belief in "Sanatan

Dharma". This is different than religion. It's above

religion. It just means "the business of the eternal

soul". It refers therefore to "Spiritual Life"

as separate from "Religion". Religion is fixed, but

Spiritual Life is dynamic.

 

The emotions expressed here about "this great land of

America" and so on, are ignorance ultimately. This

list should be above that. I am quite surprised that

people here who supposedly meditate and so on don't

get this. You are not your body, and you are not your

country. How can you believe in Jyotish, and

simultaneously think that your present body,

country, etc., are so important. In a flash all this

will be gone.

 

You are arguing about temporary triflings. It is

neither interesting nor intelligent, to those of who

are interested in higher matters. Jyotish is

interesting because it shows how God controls

everything. It shows the one-ness of all things, and

beings, and souls, in Divinity, in God. We are all one

there. Nobody is separate, and nothing is separate.

There is a oneness of law, and Jyotish shows this

better than anything else in our world. That's why

it's interesting.

 

So why bother with hammering on the separations? Leave

that to the ignorant. In the next life, Osama Bin

Laden may be American! He may die soon, and thereafter

be born here and become the President. It's not

impossible. It's actually possible.

 

And all the poor people on the streets of Calcutta,

they may have been rich British people in their last

lives, who took from India. Who knows?

 

So countries are just places where you are awarded

your karmas, good or bad. The bad countries are needed

for punishing or teaching hard lessons, and the "good"

countries are needed for rewarding and

misleading. We've all been to all of them. We've all

been all nationalities.

 

So rise above these petty arguments that give your

temporary egos some gratifications. It's really silly

and beneath the definition and name of this list. It's

beneath Jyotish, and nobody's Guru would be proud of

them if they argue about the merits of countries. Very

silly. I've never met any Guru who was for such

nonsense, and I've met plenty.

 

 

 

 

 

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