vaishnava Vs Shaivas

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Greetings.

It's a bit shocking for me that all the demons/villans in some of the

Literature of Hinduism like Ravana a shaivait is the demon/villan

against Avatar Rama ( Vaishnav ) in Ramayana, In bakth Prahalad

similarly the villan / Demon is a Shaivait against the Prahalad (

Vaishnav ). Similarly even though i donot remember the names of the

Literature but all the demons/Villans are Pure Shaivaits against the

Vaishnavs. But in none of the Shaiva Literature Vaishnavs are projected

as Villans / Demons. Could some one explain me why is this?

thanks for your answers.

Senthil.

Om Shivaya Namahe.

Thiruchitrambalam.

[Guest guest]

Very intersting viewpoint, Senthilji. What do the other members think?

 

I would like to give my 2 cents.

 

1st, the Puranic Shiva is actually Rudra/Mahesh, the part of the

Divine in charge of Tamogun.

 

Rakshaas, Pretas, ghosts etc come under authority of Rudra by default.

In fact, one of his jobs is to keep an eye on them. If they misbehave,

or harass innocent people, they answer to him. Also, it is only by his

blessing can a Preta ever leave the Preta Yoni. Without his blessing,

they may be stuck in the Dark Worlds for millions of years.

 

The fact that Rudra/Mahesh is worshipped by the Rakshas is a good

point in his favor, as he accepts everyone, even the demons. He has

mercy for everyone. He walks naked so his followers can wear good

clothes. He lives in the graveyard so his followers can live in

palaces. Which other God has such mercy?

 

2ndly, in Tantra, Shiva is the name of the Universal Soul-

Brahma-Vishnu-Mahesh are his manifestations, but he himself is above

them. As such, he is above our silly concepts of Good & Evil.

 

Also, what seems evil may actually be a blessing in disguise. If it

werent for evil like Hitler, dozens of countries like India would

still be slaves(My apology to Congressis who think Gandhiji "brought"

freedom for us). It took Osama bin Laden to get Western countries to

take threat of Islamic terrorism seriously.

 

Good & evil go hand in hand- you cant have one without the other.

 

So my understanding is the the One Divine, first as Rudra, gives

powers to demons to let them create chaos, then as Vishnu kills them.

This way he teaches a lesson to the lazy cowards who masquearde as

"Religious"(as Babaji mentions in his post on Prana, lazy people never

find God, while criminals/Rakshas can). But He himself stands back &

enjoys the show.

[Guest guest]

, "senthil_sym" <senthil_sym

wrote:

 

Good Observation! As you may be aware, bigger population of India

had been Shaviites. Vashnavism actually started later and since

there had been rivaliries amongst shaiviites and vaishnavites, may

be such thoughts were spread deliberately in ancient times.

 

However, as Shanracer wrote, Shiva is God of Destruction and Brahmaa

the God Creation. Although they are manifestations of the same God,

their consciousness is fixed on their respective work viz. Creation

and Destruction. They do not actually bother about the

Maintenance/operation/preservance of the Universe, which is the sole

responsibility of Vishnu. Vishnu has to keep a balance of +ve & -ve

energies, and control the negativity to spread or kill positive.

 

Now since Asura and Deva are both children of Brhamaa, He does not

hate one or love other...for him both are his creations. So when

Asuras worship Brhama, He gives them boon whatever they

want...without caring for the consequences that his boon will

disturb the Operation of the Universe.

 

Similarly, Shiva is only interested in Destruction. He blessed

Bhasmasura with a boon that if he keeps his hand on anyone, he would

be burnt, without taking into consideration, the consequences.

 

Hence most of the Asuras and Demons worshipped Brhamma and Shiva

for their boons to win the Devas...and they grant it, becoz

preservance and balance of the Universe is not their problem!

 

Vishnu is never worshipped by asuras, because Vishnu will never

give a boon, which will disturb the balance of Energies in the

cosmos. And since Vishnu has to maintain the Universe, He fights

and kills those Asuras who, with the help of a boon, try to increase

sufferings of others.

 

We should not take the incidents, you mentioned, to make a

decision that Vishnu is against Shaivas or shiva bhaktas. Shiva

gave boon to millions of bhaktas and only those who misused the

power were taught a lesson by Vishnu. By killing Ravan, Vishnu

actually helped him gaining the Moksha, which was beyond his reach

due to his inflated ego. And Vishnu respected Ravana for his

intelligence...as while Ravana was dying, Rama asked Laxman to make

him guru and learn Politics from him.

 

Shiva is beyond the Good and the Evil, he is beyond sin and

bad... He is not interested in anything.

 

Thus we can see Shiva as Atomic Powers...some nations are using it

for generating electricity and some trying to make WMD...and the

preserver Vishnu is working through the United Nations to curb those

nations who misuse the power !!

 

With Love

 

> Dear all,

> Greetings.

> It's a bit shocking for me that all the demons/villans in some of

the

> Literature of Hinduism like Ravana a shaivait is the demon/villan

> against Avatar Rama ( Vaishnav ) in Ramayana, In bakth Prahalad

> similarly the villan / Demon is a Shaivait against the Prahalad (

> Vaishnav ). Similarly even though i donot remember the names of

the

> Literature but all the demons/Villans are Pure Shaivaits against

the

> Vaishnavs. But in none of the Shaiva Literature Vaishnavs are

projected

> as Villans / Demons. Could some one explain me why is this?

> thanks for your answers.

> Senthil.

> Om Shivaya Namahe.

> Thiruchitrambalam.

>

[Guest guest]

So Babaji, does that mean the 3 Gods, Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva are

limited energies, since they only care about their particular field, &

not others?

[Guest guest]

> By killing Ravan, Vishnu

> actually helped him gaining the Moksha, which was beyond his reach

> due to his inflated ego. And Vishnu respected Ravana for his

> intelligence...as while Ravana was dying, Rama asked Laxman to make

> him guru and learn Politics from him.

>

True Babaji. In fact, theres a very interesting story with this that I

would like to share.

 

Ravan was a great Yogi & Shiva Bhakta. He had several Siddhis, & was a

highly religious person. Once he prayed to Shiva for several years, &

asked for a boon to become immortal. Shivji warned him against it- the

soul is immortal, but bodily immortality is not recommended by God.

But Ravan had made up his mind & refused to back down.

 

So Ravan became immortal in his Physical body, but soon became bored.

The pleasures of the Physical body are limited, & Ravan wasnt wise

enough to understand or enjoy Divine bliss. Besides, since he could

never die, he could never visit the Higher Lokas, which have real

bliss. So he again prayed to Shiva, & asked that his immortailty be

removed.

 

Shived laughed & said it was too bad, as a Blessing or curse once

given cant be taken back. Ravan started crying, so Shivji took pity on

him & told him Vishnu would kill him once he was born as Avataar. But,

Ravan would only die if he tried to steal another mans wife. Now

Ravan was a very religious person(contrary to what is said about him,

he was actually a Good King. His city was built of Gold, & his people

were very rich & comfortable. ), said that would never happen, but

Shiva just laughed at him.

 

To get Ravan to break his Dharma & steal another mans wife, his mind

had to be corrupted. The only one with the power to do so was Saturn,

the Great God of Experience(which is what Shani represents in

Astrology), but with his Siddhis Ravan had captured the nine planets &

locked them in his basement, so Fortune had no effect on him. They

were alwyas face down , so they couldnt give him their Drishti(or sight).

 

Narad was sent to remedy this. He went to Ravan & started praising his

greatness. "You should humiliate the Planet Lords, & laugh at them".

Ravan, who was by now full of ego, decided to do that. He went to the

basement & started laughing at the planets weakness. Then Narad asked

him to turn them over so he could see their sad faces. Ravan did so, &

as soon as Shani looked at him, Ravans mind got corrupted. Soon after

he kidnapped Sita, & had to pay for it with his life.

 

But ultimately, he got what he wanted. He was freed from Earthly

shackles, & could finally enjoy the Bliss of Moksha.

 

There are several hidden meanings in this story. First, no matter how

powerful a Yogi you become, you are never free from the hands of Fate

till you are free of all bodies.

2ndly, no matter how strong or pure you are, the Planets can easily

corrupt your mind-Self Control is the only real Siddhi(the Rishi

Vishwamitr also learnt the same lesson- his Self control was slightly

weak, which allowed Menaka to seduce him).

[Guest guest]

Another point- Vishnu is the Chief among the Adityas(as Krishna says

in the Gita), or the Sons of Aditi, the Divine Mother of Truth and

Conciousness. This puts him in direct conflict with Daityas, the Sons

of Diti, the Energy in charge of Division & Untruth. As such, he has

to fight demons, as it is his nature, & the Law of his being.

 

2ndly, the Vedic Rudra also fights demons(though this role is less

pronounced in the Puranas). Rudra is the only God the Rishis & Devtaas

were afraid of. Rudra, with his sons Maruts, the Storm Gods, attacks,

punishes & kills anyone who stands in the way of progress.

[Guest guest]

, radha_sharma_99 <no_reply wrote:

>

> So Babaji, does that mean the 3 Gods, Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva are

> limited energies, since they only care about their particular field, &

> not others?

 

Nice catch !! In fact when the Supreme-consciousness (turiya)

differentiates and manifests as Ishwara (3rd stage of

differentiation)... It is the Ishawara Tattwa which first divides

itself into Vishnu and Shiva...and then Vishnu creates Brahmaa.

 

Brhamaa's job is only creation...how it will be sustained how it

will be destroyed, is not his business.

 

These three sub-consciousness, are made only for their job. If

you look at our religious stories, we will see that none of them ever

entered into each other's arena.

 

They are limited energies if we see from above, in relation to

Paramsiva or Krishna Tattwa. They are Ishwara all powerful if seen

from below, from Jivatama levels. In Truth they are all together

Ishwara Tattwa only...only transitorily manifesting as Brahma, vishnu

or Mahesh

 

If shiva would care for sustaining the universe, He would never

give boons to asuras, who wish to disbalance the energies of the

universe.

 

If you have some other idea, i would be waiting to hear

 

with love