Guest guest Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Dear Wendy, >From another source I have 17:30 hrs as the birth time (http://www.kozmikhoroscopes.com/pope.htm). Incidentally, using this time I have the following observations: - Lagna is Libra. Isn't it a better fit for the Pope than Leo lagna - 7th lord Mars is in the 12th in Rasi and Venus is in the 12th in Navamsha: denial of marriage - 10th is occupied by Jupiter indicating working at a religious place - 10th lord is Moon having Rasi drishti with Jupiter (mutual) - indicates high position in the place of work. Please note that both Moon and Jupiter are exalted. - 12th lord Mercury in conjunction with Lagna lord indicates permanent residnce in a foriegn land With these observations, I feel that the birth time of 17:30 fits better than 13:00 hrs. Please comment. Thanks, Krishna --- Wendy Vasicek <jyotish (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote: > Dear Krishna, > > The data I have is: > > Pope John Paul II > 18 May 1920 (13:00) > Wadowice, Poland > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > jyotish-vidya > ___ > > > - > "Krishnamurthy Seetharama" <krishna_1998 > > <jyotish-vidya> > Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:03 PM > Re: Re: delay and denial of marriage > > > //> PS: Navamsha also needs to be consulted,// > > Very true! > > 1. Lata mangeshkar: Venus occupies 12th in Navamsha > 2. Mother Theresa: Venus is in 8th in both Rasi and Navamsha > 3. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Venus is in 12th in Navamsha > 4. Sarada Ma: Venus is in 12th in Navamsha > 5. Atal Bihari Vajapeyee: Venus is in 12th in Navamsha > > Dear Wendy, > > I seem to have incorrect birth details of Pope John Paul II. > Could you kindly share the details? > > Regards, > Krishna > > --- Wendy Vasicek <jyotish (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote: > > > PS: Navamsha also needs to be consulted, as I'm sure you > know! > > In Pope John > > Paul's chart, 7th lord Saturn occupies 12th (navamsha) in > sign > > of > > Moon...12th lord in Rasi. In example 3) Venus, aspected by > > Mars and conjunct > > Saturn, occupies Scorpio (8th house in navamsha). This seems > > to suggest > > that, although marriage has been denied, celibacy may not > > necessarily be the > > reason. > > > > Input from other members would be appreciated :-) > > _______________________________ > > > Regards, Krishna http://astrokrishna.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Dear Krishna, //From another source I have 17:30 hrs as the birth time// The time of 13:15 is given in Goravani Jyotish (charts) database. //Lagna is Libra. Isn't it a better fit for the Pope than Leo lagna// Why? //7th lord Mars is in the 12th in Rasi and Venus is in the 12th in Navamsha: denial of marriage// My ex-husband (Libra rising) has 7th lord Mars in 12th in both Rasi and Navamsha. He's been married five times--a chronic womaniser/adulterer. //10th is occupied by Jupiter indicating working at a religious place// Exalted Jupiter in 12th (moksha) bhava denotes a heavenly abode after death. This would fit the exemplary life of the Pope far more than malefic Mars, inimically placed in 12th. This house is (also) known as the house of sin...I cannot see the Pope having this placement. //10th lord is Moon having Rasi drishti with Jupiter (mutual) - indicates high position in the place of work. Please note that both Moon and Jupiter are exalted.// Rasi Drishti? This we may consider in conjunction with Jaimini (rasi specific) dasa, however rasi drishti is not appropriate with Parashara system which advocates graha aspects along with vimsottari (graha specific) dasa. //12th lord Mercury in conjunction with Lagna lord indicates permanent residnce in a foriegn land// For Leo rising, exalted 12th lord, dispositor of exalted Jupiter, conjuncts lagna lord in 10th house. This house governs, as I'm sure you know... "Actions in this world (occupation, profession, career), reputation, prestige, success and status in society, honor from government, promotion, rank, renown, fame, ambition, happiness, authority, royalty, ruling power, sense of importance, dignity, living in foreign lands etc.." PJP held the exalted position as head of the catholic religion, residing in the official residence; the Vatican! 9th is the house of religion and 4th from 9th (12th) can be seen as the residence/home. Considering this would you say PJP had afflicted retrograde Mars in 12th, or exalted Jupiter? I know what I would say! There's more I'd like to add but I'm afraid I must leave it here for now. //With these observations, I feel that the birth time of 17:30 fits better than 13:00 hrs.// At this point I have to disagree... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 PS: Note; Pope Benedict also has 1st/12th lord (Saturn) in 10th (aspected by 9th lord Venus), indicating his status connected to religion and home of religion...the Vatican. Sadly, in this case, retrograde Saturn is inimically placed in Scorpio and there can be no doubt he's greatly not revered (in the general sense) as was PJP. _ Dear Krishna, //From another source I have 17:30 hrs as the birth time// The time of 13:15 is given in Goravani Jyotish (charts) database. //Lagna is Libra. Isn't it a better fit for the Pope than Leo lagna// Why? //7th lord Mars is in the 12th in Rasi and Venus is in the 12th in Navamsha: denial of marriage// My ex-husband (Libra rising) has 7th lord Mars in 12th in both Rasi and Navamsha. He's been married five times--a chronic womaniser/adulterer. //10th is occupied by Jupiter indicating working at a religious place// Exalted Jupiter in 12th (moksha) bhava denotes a heavenly abode after death. This would fit the exemplary life of the Pope far more than malefic Mars, inimically placed in 12th. This house is (also) known as the house of sin...I cannot see the Pope having this placement. //10th lord is Moon having Rasi drishti with Jupiter (mutual) - indicates high position in the place of work. Please note that both Moon and Jupiter are exalted.// Rasi Drishti? This we may consider in conjunction with Jaimini (rasi specific) dasa, however rasi drishti is not appropriate with Parashara system which advocates graha aspects along with vimsottari (graha specific) dasa. //12th lord Mercury in conjunction with Lagna lord indicates permanent residnce in a foriegn land// For Leo rising, exalted 12th lord, dispositor of exalted Jupiter, conjuncts lagna lord in 10th house. This house governs, as I'm sure you know... "Actions in this world (occupation, profession, career), reputation, prestige, success and status in society, honor from government, promotion, rank, renown, fame, ambition, happiness, authority, royalty, ruling power, sense of importance, dignity, living in foreign lands etc.." PJP held the exalted position as head of the catholic religion, residing in the official residence; the Vatican! 9th is the house of religion and 4th from 9th (12th) can be seen as the residence/home. Considering this would you say PJP had afflicted retrograde Mars in 12th, or exalted Jupiter? I know what I would say! There's more I'd like to add but I'm afraid I must leave it here for now. //With these observations, I feel that the birth time of 17:30 fits better than 13:00 hrs.// At this point I have to disagree... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Dear Wendy, Thanks for your thoughts. It would be interesting to read your analysis of Pope's chart with the time you think is right. Regards, Krishna --- Wendy Vasicek <jyotish (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote: > Dear Krishna, > > //From another source I have 17:30 hrs as the birth time// > > The time of 13:15 is given in Goravani Jyotish (charts) > database. > > //Lagna is Libra. Isn't it a better fit for the Pope than Leo > lagna// > > Why? > > //7th lord Mars is in the 12th in Rasi and Venus is in the > 12th > in Navamsha: denial of marriage// > > My ex-husband (Libra rising) has 7th lord Mars in 12th in both > Rasi and > Navamsha. He's been married five times--a chronic > womaniser/adulterer. > > //10th is occupied by Jupiter indicating working at a > religious > place// > > Exalted Jupiter in 12th (moksha) bhava denotes a heavenly > abode after death. > This would fit the exemplary life of the Pope far more than > malefic Mars, > inimically placed in 12th. This house is (also) known as the > house of > sin...I cannot see the Pope having this placement. > > //10th lord is Moon having Rasi drishti with Jupiter (mutual) > - > indicates high position in the place of work. Please note that > both Moon and Jupiter are exalted.// > > Rasi Drishti? This we may consider in conjunction with Jaimini > (rasi > specific) dasa, however rasi drishti is not appropriate with > Parashara > system which advocates graha aspects along with vimsottari > (graha specific) > dasa. > > //12th lord Mercury in conjunction with Lagna lord indicates > permanent residnce in a foriegn land// > > For Leo rising, exalted 12th lord, dispositor of exalted > Jupiter, conjuncts > lagna lord in 10th house. This house governs, as I'm sure you > know... > "Actions in this world (occupation, profession, career), > reputation, > prestige, success and status in society, honor from > government, promotion, > rank, renown, fame, ambition, happiness, authority, royalty, > ruling power, > sense of importance, dignity, living in foreign lands etc.." > > PJP held the exalted position as head of the catholic > religion, > residing in the official residence; the Vatican! 9th is the > house of > religion and 4th from 9th (12th) can be seen as the > residence/home. > Considering this would you say PJP had afflicted retrograde > Mars in 12th, or > exalted Jupiter? I know what I would say! > > There's more I'd like to add but I'm afraid I must leave it > here for now. > > //With these observations, I feel that the birth time of 17:30 > fits better than 13:00 hrs.// > > At this point I have to disagree... > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > jyotish-vidya > ___ > > > Regards, Krishna http://astrokrishna.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Dear Wendy, Have you looked at Rodden's database? It quotes Pope JPII's birth time as 5:30pm with a rating 'A'. From the details given in the site it appears that it could be some time between 5pm and 6pm. Following text is the extract from the same site for a quick refernece for anyone who is interested: Grazia Bordoni quotes him on Italian TV 5/18/97, speaking to a group of kids, "Today, I was born between 5:00 and 6:00 PM." Michael Munkasey sends clipping on an interview with him in the Seattle Times 5/19/96 that gave "Today, about 5:00 PM." Alois Treindl quotes the German newsgroup de.alt.astrologie for an article by "Mag. Andreas Kersting" where he writes that he has asked the Pope in private audience about his birth time, whereupon the pope replied 'at 17:00 exactly.' " Alex Vladimir Klouda writes on email, May 2000, "I have heard it from Cardinal Miroslav Vlk, who was present at the Pope's 80's birthday lunch, that the Pope said, "We are a little bit ahead with the celebration because I was born around 6 pm." Regards, Krishna --- Wendy Vasicek <jyotish (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote: > PS: Note; Pope Benedict also has 1st/12th lord (Saturn) in > 10th (aspected by > 9th lord Venus), indicating his status connected to religion > and home of > religion...the Vatican. Sadly, in this case, retrograde Saturn > is inimically > placed in Scorpio and there can be no doubt he's greatly not > revered (in the > general sense) as was PJP. > _ > > > Dear Krishna, > > //From another source I have 17:30 hrs as the birth time// > > The time of 13:15 is given in Goravani Jyotish (charts) > database. > > //Lagna is Libra. Isn't it a better fit for the Pope than Leo > lagna// > > Why? > > //7th lord Mars is in the 12th in Rasi and Venus is in the > 12th > in Navamsha: denial of marriage// > > My ex-husband (Libra rising) has 7th lord Mars in 12th in both > Rasi and > Navamsha. He's been married five times--a chronic > womaniser/adulterer. > > //10th is occupied by Jupiter indicating working at a > religious > place// > > Exalted Jupiter in 12th (moksha) bhava denotes a heavenly > abode after death. > This would fit the exemplary life of the Pope far more than > malefic Mars, > inimically placed in 12th. This house is (also) known as the > house of > sin...I cannot see the Pope having this placement. > > //10th lord is Moon having Rasi drishti with Jupiter (mutual) > - > indicates high position in the place of work. Please note that > both Moon and Jupiter are exalted.// > > Rasi Drishti? This we may consider in conjunction with Jaimini > (rasi > specific) dasa, however rasi drishti is not appropriate with > Parashara > system which advocates graha aspects along with vimsottari > (graha specific) > dasa. > > //12th lord Mercury in conjunction with Lagna lord indicates > permanent residnce in a foriegn land// > > For Leo rising, exalted 12th lord, dispositor of exalted > Jupiter, conjuncts > lagna lord in 10th house. This house governs, as I'm sure you > know... > "Actions in this world (occupation, profession, career), > reputation, > prestige, success and status in society, honor from > government, promotion, > rank, renown, fame, ambition, happiness, authority, royalty, > ruling power, > sense of importance, dignity, living in foreign lands etc.." > > PJP held the exalted position as head of the catholic > religion, > residing in the official residence; the Vatican! 9th is the > house of > religion and 4th from 9th (12th) can be seen as the > residence/home. > Considering this would you say PJP had afflicted retrograde > Mars in 12th, or > exalted Jupiter? I know what I would say! > > There's more I'd like to add but I'm afraid I must leave it > here for now. > > //With these observations, I feel that the birth time of 17:30 > fits better than 13:00 hrs.// > > At this point I have to disagree... > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > jyotish-vidya > ___ > > > > > Regards, Krishna http://astrokrishna.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Dear Krishna, PJP's chart was discussed at length (here) at the time of his death (2 Apr 2005). At the time I went (painfully) through the process of rectification and came to the conclusion that the time given by Goravani Jyotish was the most plausible. Unfortunately my time is rather limited at the moment so I can't tackle such a time consuming exercise..maybe you (and/or others) can have a go at confirming some events. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II I have a feeling there might be a more comprehensive timeline available on the DVD 'Karol, a man who became Pope' (a beautiful movie BTW). But, again, I doubt if I'll be able to check today. I've just checked the Rodden database (I have installed) and it's not bringing up the chart, I must have a glitch in the software? To save time could you send the link to the actual data... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya ___ - "Krishnamurthy Seetharama" <krishna_1998 > <jyotish-vidya> Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:22 PM Re: Pope's Birth data Dear Wendy, Have you looked at Rodden's database? It quotes Pope JPII's birth time as 5:30pm with a rating 'A'. From the details given in the site it appears that it could be some time between 5pm and 6pm. Following text is the extract from the same site for a quick refernece for anyone who is interested: Grazia Bordoni quotes him on Italian TV 5/18/97, speaking to a group of kids, "Today, I was born between 5:00 and 6:00 PM." Michael Munkasey sends clipping on an interview with him in the Seattle Times 5/19/96 that gave "Today, about 5:00 PM." Alois Treindl quotes the German newsgroup de.alt.astrologie for an article by "Mag. Andreas Kersting" where he writes that he has asked the Pope in private audience about his birth time, whereupon the pope replied 'at 17:00 exactly.' " Alex Vladimir Klouda writes on email, May 2000, "I have heard it from Cardinal Miroslav Vlk, who was present at the Pope's 80's birthday lunch, that the Pope said, "We are a little bit ahead with the celebration because I was born around 6 pm." Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Dear Wendy, Here is the link that you requested: http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/PopeJohnPaul.htm Will definitely work more on the events as you have suggested. Regards, Krishna --- Wendy Vasicek <jyotish (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote: > Dear Krishna, > > PJP's chart was discussed at length (here) at the time of his > death (2 Apr > 2005). At the time I went (painfully) through the process of > rectification > and came to the conclusion that the time given by Goravani > Jyotish was the > most plausible. > > Unfortunately my time is rather limited at the moment so I > can't tackle such > a time consuming exercise..maybe you (and/or others) can have > a go at > confirming some events. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II > > I have a feeling there might be a more comprehensive timeline > available on > the DVD 'Karol, a man who became Pope' (a beautiful movie > BTW). But, again, > I doubt if I'll be able to check today. > > I've just checked the Rodden database (I have installed) and > it's not > bringing up the chart, I must have a glitch in the software? > To save time > could you send the link to the actual data... > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > jyotish-vidya > ___ > > > - > "Krishnamurthy Seetharama" <krishna_1998 > > <jyotish-vidya> > Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:22 PM > Re: Pope's Birth data > > > Dear Wendy, > > Have you looked at Rodden's database? It quotes Pope JPII's > birth time as 5:30pm with a rating 'A'. From the details given > in the site it appears that it could be some time between 5pm > and 6pm. > > Following text is the extract from the same site for a quick > refernece for anyone who is interested: > > Grazia Bordoni quotes him on Italian TV 5/18/97, speaking to a > group of kids, "Today, I was born between 5:00 and 6:00 PM." > Michael Munkasey sends clipping on an interview with him in > the > Seattle Times 5/19/96 that gave "Today, about 5:00 PM." > > Alois Treindl quotes the German newsgroup de.alt.astrologie > for > an article by "Mag. Andreas Kersting" where he writes that he > has asked the Pope in private audience about his birth time, > whereupon the pope replied 'at 17:00 exactly.' " > > Alex Vladimir Klouda writes on email, May 2000, "I have heard > it > from Cardinal Miroslav Vlk, who was present at the Pope's 80's > birthday lunch, that the Pope said, "We are a little bit ahead > with the celebration because I was born around 6 pm." > > Regards, > Krishna > > > Regards, Krishna http://astrokrishna.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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