SHOULD I SHAKEN/LOOSE MY FAITH IN ASTROLOGY 17/10

October 17, 2006

Dear RRji

if this mail came before u rad the reply of Rajesh below urs now makes some sense did it appear that way... form what u posted now today....!?

abOut ur 2 cents

Well rarely I get carried away by anyone by flattery or criticism of my successful reading OR failures and more often as u said today people come from a different mindsets, frames and we will in all face2face readings have to be what u said we must not be. I try a ready written answer before I see them and ask them to get back on any clarifications to avoid becoming one u've hinted a Psychologist, soothsayer etc. and also do educate them that what we cant see is what we have to still LEARN or what we know if it is not connecting to the SERVER =ALMIGHTY we cant deliver SO ACCEPT it as his WILL.

[i HOPE u've seen my triangle analogy used here sometimes]

we r but mere interpreters of the script in parts of the human life we can see a few events isn't it can we see all NO way.

Prashant

Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Kumaria ji,

Your frustration and anger is justified, but sometimes people who

come in to ask readings are not in the best of their mental state and

may be suffering a lot of pain, anguish and uncertainty. I am not

saying that everyone is like that. Sometimes individuals come in here

to relax, after having had a bad day at work or a worse day simply

trying to find work -- or there could be diseases in self or family

or other worries. In nearly all cases expectations are heightened,

for whatever reasons: familial, personal, societal, medical,

chemical, and biochemical ... etc etc.

Back in early 1980s when writing a manual on jyotish (which has grown

into something else over the decades), when RR was a lot younger and

impatient I had written that astrologer must not try to be a all-in-

one parent/friend/priest/psychologist (particularly the latter

without training!) to a nativity, looking for a paid or free reading.

As hair grew whiter and sparse, these words were penned:

******************

From "MY TWO CENTS chapter:

While each of us might be drawn to astrology for different reasons,

the ultimate aim is to tap into and understand the cosmic cycle of

this experiential journey of human experience. Perhaps some of us

would end up trying only to understand our own horoscopes or of near

ones, while others among us would extend their help externally in

trying to help a fellow-human being to understand themselves and

their personal journey better. There will be times when we would be

tempted to or forced to assume the role of counsellors. Understanding

our roles and boundaries is very important at that point. Sometimes

we will be approached by individuals who are genuinely tormented by

the rigours of time and need a bit of support and encouragement.

While being empathic, we must not cross the boundary of being an

astrologer and enter into that of being a soothesayer unless we are

trained or capable in that area. Those who approach us for seeking

astrological counselling must always be told of and reminded of our

boundaries. Regardless of their infectious but sometimes exaggerated

faith in astrology or us, we must spell out the findings just as we

see them while honestly making them aware of the uncertainties and

limitations of what we see or say, as best as is possible. There is

not pressure to feel that we need to turn a cartwheel or two simply

to please or the need to justify the reason for being for astrology

or of our interest in astrology (unless you are in the role of a

professional, paid astro-counsellor -- in which case you are not very

different from other similar professionals in having to demonstrate

your abilities and so on).

*********************

RR

, "Rajesh M. Kumaria"

<rajeshkumaria2000 wrote:

>

> Well I am forced to interrupt all these conversations...First of

all

> Mr Anuj comes with request for all Gurus (and that too im capital

> letters) and then gives angry replies in capital letters again,

when

> there is no offense meant by RR ji and other astrologers. That's

> another surprize here(while RR ji is very polite here)...May be MR

> ANUJ is expecting some magical predictions here! Infact he never

> answered to my queries at all..

> (/message/36435)...I

> even offered to investigate his chart further... infact his given

> birth data does not sychronize with the fact that he had same

stable

> job for 18 years!

>

> If he was in same organization for 18 years then what is the

> hesitation in giving answers to my questions?..afterall we all are

> just trying to help him only and have nothing to gain here. His

> chart shows several job changes which may have happened within same

> organization or rather say change of his role and position in same

> organization during various antardasas..he has not given any dates

> for such investigations, so his birth data cannot be verified.The

> Ashtakavarga system and Vedic astrology techniques cannot go wrong(

> i have verfied in several charts myself)..so its simple that either

> his birth data is not correct or he is not telling the complete

story

> (job change/role change dates etc)! Even myself have gone thru

> several job changes after a long successful span of more than 15

> years and have been working on various types of job in last few

> years...i wish i could predict a better future for myself or fix my

> own horoscope! , but unfortunately astrology does not change one's

> future and it can only give major hints about the shape of things

to

> come..so where is this claims that he is talking about? Who has

made

> any false claims here?

>

> I find Mr ANUJ's attitude quite offensive considering the fact that

> he needs help and so he should be polite in this forum. I myself

> contacted few well known astrologers and even they could not solve

> my own problems..but they presented several solutions..some work

and

> some do not work...But I do not blame them since they tried their

> level best and in the process, I learned several things myself. So

I

> just use this knowledge to help those who appear to be very genuine

> and who appear to be even more unfortunate than myself! So in

> nutshell, we all have to face the consequences of our actions and

> face our own individual futures! So if one decides that he/she is

> going to believe in astrology and seek solutions, then its their

> decision...if one does NOT believe then also its their decision and

> I respect both the decisions...who are we to restore one's faith in

> astrology(even the heading is offensive)! Its ultimately one's

Karma

> only which can take one to future destinations..astrology just make

> the journey more informative only..Thanks..Rajesh Kumaria.

>

> , "Rohiniranjan"

> <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >

> > I am sorry Anuj that you felt that way. I hope you will find what

> you

> > are seeking.

> >

> > Take care,

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , ANUJ BHATIA <anujbht@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > IF YOU PEOPLE CAN'T GIVE THE DIRECTIONS, U SHOULD NOT BE MAKE

> > OTHER ON THE LAUGHING POSITION.

> > > YES IT IS TRUE I AM WRITING AGAIN AND AGAIN ON THIS FORUM TO

> GET

> > SOME SOLUTION TO THE SOME EXTENT BUT UNFORTUNETLY I GOT THE

> ANSWER

> > OF NOT TRUTH.

> > > NOW U R ASKING WHAT ANSWER ARE YOU LOOKING FOR

> > REALLY .............

> > > IF YOU CAN'T GIVE THE SOLUTION ON TRUTH , YOU SHOULD NOT BE

> PASSES

> > MIMICRY ON THAT.

> > > YOUR CALIM ABOUT THE ASTROLOGY IS TOTALLY BASE LESS.

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > It is sad that he keeps posting again and again!

> > >

> > > What answer are you looking for really, dear Anuj Bhatia ji?

> > >

> > > Please explain!

> > >

> > > Ranjan

> > >

> > > , Prashant Kumar G B

> > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > anuj,

> > > > U HAVE POSTED THE SAME STUFF EARLIER TOO. and is that the

only

> > repl

> > > u got anytime after Jul 06 u will be better off sure others

have

> > > replied as well I remember to have also. as I remember the

story

> 18

> > > yrs... closed.... the TRAUMA... etc.

> > > > it may require changing ur adding new skill sets to make u

> more

> > > employable giveuself more chances.

> > > >

> > > > depends on how u say the readings u got will cover it again

> nio

> > > problem..

> > > >

> > > > ANUJ BHATIA <anujbht@> wrote:

> > > RESPECTED ALL GURU JI

> > > > >

> > > > > KINDLY HELP ME TO SOLVE MY PROBLEM:

> > > > >

> > > > > I WAS WORKING IN AN ORGANISATION FOR A LAST 18 YRS. AND THE

> > > > > ORGANISATION HAS BEEN CLOSED NOW. I AM UNDER THE TRAUMA FOR

> THE

> > > UN

> > > > > EMPLOYMENT. I AM JOBLESS SINCE MARCH'03.

> > > > >

> > > > > I AM TRYING VERY HARD TO SEARCH ANOTHER SATISFIED JOB, BUT

I

> > > COULD

> > > > > NOT GET ANY SUCCESS SO FAR. BUT FROM 20/04/2006 I HAVE GOT

> ONE

> > > LOW

> > > > > PAID SERVICE OPPORTUNITY BUT THAT IS NOT UP-TO THE MARK OF

> MY

> > > MENTAL

> > > > > SATISFACTION AS WELL MONETARY.

> > > > >

> > > > > PLEASE TELL ME

> > > > >

> > > > > - WHEN WILL I GET THE SATISFIED JOB

> > > > >

> > > > > -WHAT WILL BE MY FUTURE

> > > > >

> > > > > - I AM VERY MUCH WORRIED ABOUT MY ECONOMICAL/ SOCIAL STATUS.

> > > > >

> > > > > - IS THERE ANY KAL SARP YOGA EXIST IN MY KUNDLY.

> > > > >

> > > > > I AM GIVING MY DATA AS UNDER:

> > > > >

> > > > > NAME: ANUJ BHATIA

> > > > >

> > > > > DOB: 15/1/1962

> > > > >

> > > > > BIRTH TIME: 23.30

> > > > >

> > > > > BIRTH PLACE: MATHURA (UTTAR PRADESH)

> > > > >

> > > > > -SINCE 3RD SEPT03 I HAD WEAR PANNA IN GOLD.

> > > > >

> > > > > REGARDS.

> > > > >

> > > > > ANUJ BHATIA

> > > > >

> > > > > PS: SOME ONE HAS TOLD ME THAT MY GOOD TIME WILL STARTS FROM

> > > WILL STARTS

> > > > > FROM JULY'06, BUT THAT FOR-CAST DIDN'T COME TRUE.

> > > > >KEN DRUM YOGA IS EXIST ON THIS HOROSCOPE? IT THIS THE

> REFLECTION

> > > OF

> > > > THIS.

> > > > NOW MY FAITH IN ASTROLOGY IS SHAKEN BECAUSE EVERY TIME EVERY

> > > PUNDIT GIVES THEIR THOUGHT BUT THAT NEVER COMES TRUE.

> > > >

October 17, 2006

Kumar ji,

I do not wish to reply to you hastily because I am honestly not sure

what you were trying to convey in your message that I quote!

RR

, Prashant Kumar G B

<gbp_kumar wrote:

>

> Dear RRji

> if this mail came before u rad the reply of Rajesh below urs now

makes some sense did it appear that way... form what u posted now

today....!?

>

> abOut ur 2 cents

>

> Well rarely I get carried away by anyone by flattery or criticism

of my successful reading OR failures and more often as u said today

people come from a different mindsets, frames and we will in all

face2face readings have to be what u said we must not be. I try a

ready written answer before I see them and ask them to get back on

any clarifications to avoid becoming one u've hinted a Psychologist,

soothsayer etc. and also do educate them that what we cant see is

what we have to still LEARN or what we know if it is not connecting

to the SERVER =ALMIGHTY we cant deliver SO ACCEPT it as his WILL.

> [i HOPE u've seen my triangle analogy used here sometimes]

> we r but mere interpreters of the script in parts of the human life

we can see a few events isn't it can we see all NO way.

>

> Prashant

>

> Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani

wrote: Dear Kumaria ji,

>

> Your frustration and anger is justified, but sometimes people who

> come in to ask readings are not in the best of their mental state

and

> may be suffering a lot of pain, anguish and uncertainty. I am not

> saying that everyone is like that. Sometimes individuals come in

here

> to relax, after having had a bad day at work or a worse day simply

> trying to find work -- or there could be diseases in self or

family

> or other worries. In nearly all cases expectations are heightened,

> for whatever reasons: familial, personal, societal, medical,

> chemical, and biochemical ... etc etc.

>

> Back in early 1980s when writing a manual on jyotish (which has

grown

> into something else over the decades), when RR was a lot younger

and

> impatient I had written that astrologer must not try to be a all-

in-

> one parent/friend/priest/psychologist (particularly the latter

> without training!) to a nativity, looking for a paid or free

reading.

>

> As hair grew whiter and sparse, these words were penned:

>

> ******************

> From "MY TWO CENTS chapter:

>

> While each of us might be drawn to astrology for different

reasons,

> the ultimate aim is to tap into and understand the cosmic cycle of

> this experiential journey of human experience. Perhaps some of us

> would end up trying only to understand our own horoscopes or of

near

> ones, while others among us would extend their help externally in

> trying to help a fellow-human being to understand themselves and

> their personal journey better. There will be times when we would

be

> tempted to or forced to assume the role of counsellors.

Understanding

> our roles and boundaries is very important at that point.

Sometimes

> we will be approached by individuals who are genuinely tormented

by

> the rigours of time and need a bit of support and encouragement.

> While being empathic, we must not cross the boundary of being an

> astrologer and enter into that of being a soothesayer unless we

are

> trained or capable in that area. Those who approach us for seeking

> astrological counselling must always be told of and reminded of

our

> boundaries. Regardless of their infectious but sometimes

exaggerated

> faith in astrology or us, we must spell out the findings just as

we

> see them while honestly making them aware of the uncertainties and

> limitations of what we see or say, as best as is possible. There

is

> not pressure to feel that we need to turn a cartwheel or two

simply

> to please or the need to justify the reason for being for

astrology

> or of our interest in astrology (unless you are in the role of a

> professional, paid astro-counsellor -- in which case you are not

very

> different from other similar professionals in having to

demonstrate

> your abilities and so on).

> *********************

>

> RR

>

> , "Rajesh M. Kumaria"

> <rajeshkumaria2000@> wrote:

> >

> > Well I am forced to interrupt all these conversations...First of

> all

> > Mr Anuj comes with request for all Gurus (and that too im

capital

> > letters) and then gives angry replies in capital letters again,

> when

> > there is no offense meant by RR ji and other astrologers. That's

> > another surprize here(while RR ji is very polite here)...May be

MR

> > ANUJ is expecting some magical predictions here! Infact he never

> > answered to my queries at all..

> >

(/message/36435)...I

> > even offered to investigate his chart further... infact his

given

> > birth data does not sychronize with the fact that he had same

> stable

> > job for 18 years!

> >

> > If he was in same organization for 18 years then what is the

> > hesitation in giving answers to my questions?..afterall we all

are

> > just trying to help him only and have nothing to gain here. His

> > chart shows several job changes which may have happened within

same

> > organization or rather say change of his role and position in

same

> > organization during various antardasas..he has not given any

dates

> > for such investigations, so his birth data cannot be

verified.The

> > Ashtakavarga system and Vedic astrology techniques cannot go

wrong(

> > i have verfied in several charts myself)..so its simple that

either

> > his birth data is not correct or he is not telling the complete

> story

> > (job change/role change dates etc)! Even myself have gone thru

> > several job changes after a long successful span of more than 15

> > years and have been working on various types of job in last few

> > years...i wish i could predict a better future for myself or fix

my

> > own horoscope! , but unfortunately astrology does not change

one's

> > future and it can only give major hints about the shape of

things

> to

> > come..so where is this claims that he is talking about? Who has

> made

> > any false claims here?

> >

> > I find Mr ANUJ's attitude quite offensive considering the fact

that

> > he needs help and so he should be polite in this forum. I myself

> > contacted few well known astrologers and even they could not

solve

> > my own problems..but they presented several solutions..some work

> and

> > some do not work...But I do not blame them since they tried

their

> > level best and in the process, I learned several things myself.

So

> I

> > just use this knowledge to help those who appear to be very

genuine

> > and who appear to be even more unfortunate than myself! So in

> > nutshell, we all have to face the consequences of our actions

and

> > face our own individual futures! So if one decides that he/she

is

> > going to believe in astrology and seek solutions, then its their

> > decision...if one does NOT believe then also its their decision

and

> > I respect both the decisions...who are we to restore one's faith

in

> > astrology(even the heading is offensive)! Its ultimately one's

> Karma

> > only which can take one to future destinations..astrology just

make

> > the journey more informative only..Thanks..Rajesh Kumaria.

> >

> > , "Rohiniranjan"

> > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I am sorry Anuj that you felt that way. I hope you will find

what

> > you

> > > are seeking.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , ANUJ BHATIA

<anujbht@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > IF YOU PEOPLE CAN'T GIVE THE DIRECTIONS, U SHOULD NOT BE

MAKE

> > > OTHER ON THE LAUGHING POSITION.

> > > > YES IT IS TRUE I AM WRITING AGAIN AND AGAIN ON THIS FORUM

TO

> > GET

> > > SOME SOLUTION TO THE SOME EXTENT BUT UNFORTUNETLY I GOT THE

> > ANSWER

> > > OF NOT TRUTH.

> > > > NOW U R ASKING WHAT ANSWER ARE YOU LOOKING FOR

> > > REALLY .............

> > > > IF YOU CAN'T GIVE THE SOLUTION ON TRUTH , YOU SHOULD NOT BE

> > PASSES

> > > MIMICRY ON THAT.

> > > > YOUR CALIM ABOUT THE ASTROLOGY IS TOTALLY BASE LESS.

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > It is sad that he keeps posting again and again!

> > > >

> > > > What answer are you looking for really, dear Anuj Bhatia ji?

> > > >

> > > > Please explain!

> > > >

> > > > Ranjan

> > > >

> > > > , Prashant Kumar G B

> > > > <gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > anuj,

> > > > > U HAVE POSTED THE SAME STUFF EARLIER TOO. and is that the

> only

> > > repl

> > > > u got anytime after Jul 06 u will be better off sure others

> have

> > > > replied as well I remember to have also. as I remember the

> story

> > 18

> > > > yrs... closed.... the TRAUMA... etc.

> > > > > it may require changing ur adding new skill sets to make u

> > more

> > > > employable giveuself more chances.

> > > > >

> > > > > depends on how u say the readings u got will cover it

again

> > nio

> > > > problem..

> > > > >

> > > > > ANUJ BHATIA <anujbht@> wrote:

> > > > RESPECTED ALL GURU JI

> > > > > >

> > > > > > KINDLY HELP ME TO SOLVE MY PROBLEM:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I WAS WORKING IN AN ORGANISATION FOR A LAST 18 YRS. AND

THE

> > > > > > ORGANISATION HAS BEEN CLOSED NOW. I AM UNDER THE TRAUMA

FOR

> > THE

> > > > UN

> > > > > > EMPLOYMENT. I AM JOBLESS SINCE MARCH'03.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I AM TRYING VERY HARD TO SEARCH ANOTHER SATISFIED JOB,

BUT

> I

> > > > COULD

> > > > > > NOT GET ANY SUCCESS SO FAR. BUT FROM 20/04/2006 I HAVE

GOT

> > ONE

> > > > LOW

> > > > > > PAID SERVICE OPPORTUNITY BUT THAT IS NOT UP-TO THE MARK

OF

> > MY

> > > > MENTAL

> > > > > > SATISFACTION AS WELL MONETARY.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PLEASE TELL ME

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - WHEN WILL I GET THE SATISFIED JOB

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -WHAT WILL BE MY FUTURE

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - I AM VERY MUCH WORRIED ABOUT MY ECONOMICAL/ SOCIAL

STATUS.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - IS THERE ANY KAL SARP YOGA EXIST IN MY KUNDLY.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I AM GIVING MY DATA AS UNDER:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > NAME: ANUJ BHATIA

> > > > > >

> > > > > > DOB: 15/1/1962

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BIRTH TIME: 23.30

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BIRTH PLACE: MATHURA (UTTAR PRADESH)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -SINCE 3RD SEPT03 I HAD WEAR PANNA IN GOLD.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > REGARDS.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ANUJ BHATIA

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PS: SOME ONE HAS TOLD ME THAT MY GOOD TIME WILL STARTS

FROM

> > > > WILL STARTS

> > > > > > FROM JULY'06, BUT THAT FOR-CAST DIDN'T COME TRUE.

> > > > > >KEN DRUM YOGA IS EXIST ON THIS HOROSCOPE? IT THIS THE

> > REFLECTION

> > > > OF

> > > > > THIS.

> > > > > NOW MY FAITH IN ASTROLOGY IS SHAKEN BECAUSE EVERY TIME

EVERY

> > > > PUNDIT GIVES THEIR THOUGHT BUT THAT NEVER COMES TRUE.

> > > > >

October 18, 2006

Dear RR

IT IS SIMPLE-what i meant was if u had posted ur last post after reading rajesh's post=WHERE HE DID NOT APPEAR to be of the nature u hinted in ur post

that is of some worked, stressed ones. he was quite deliberate inwhat he wanted to say.

SO IF U HAD SEEN nad and still POSTED it was my point.

but normally I ask for clarifications of some of ur drifts and never felt my last mail was anywhere as complicated.

thanks

prashant

Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Kumar ji,