Vaishnavi Retreat--HG Rukmini Mataji

[Guest guest]

October 7, 2006

Verse: SB 7.15.40

Speaker: HG Rukmini Mataji

Location: ISKCON New Vrindaban [www.newvrindaban.com]

Occasion: Vaishnavi Retreat 2006 [www.vaishnaviretreat.com]

__________________________

 

 

atmanam ced vijaniyat param jnana-dhutasayah

kim icchan kasya va hetor deham pusnati lampatah

 

TRANSLATION: The human form of body is meant for understanding the self and

the Supreme Self, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, both of whom are

transcendentally situated. If both of them can be understood when one is

purified by advanced knowledge, for what reason and for whom does a foolish,

greedy person maintain the body for sense gratification?

 

PURPORT: Of course, everyone in this material world is interested in

maintaining the body for sense gratification, but by cultivating knowledge

one should gradually understand that the body is not the self. Both the soul

and the Supersoul are transcendental to the material world. This is to be

understood in the human form of life, especially when one takes sannyasa. A

sannyasi, one who has understood the self, should be engaged in elevating

the self and associating with the Superself. Our Krsna consciousness

movement is meant for elevating the living being for promotion back home,

back to Godhead. Seeking such elevation is one's duty in the human form of

life. Unless one performs this duty, why should one maintain the body?

Especially if a sannyasi not only maintains the body by ordinary means but

does everything to maintain the body, including even eating meat and other

abominable things, he must be a lampatah, a greedy person simply engaged in

sense gratification. A sannyasi must specifically remove himself from the

urges of the tongue, belly and genitals, which disturb one as long as one is

not fully aware that the body is separate from the soul.

 

[End of purport]

 

[invocatory prayers]

 

Rukmini Mataji: In this chapter of Srimad Bhagavatam we are continuing to

hear the instructions of Narada Muni to Maharaja Yudhisthira, "Instructions

for Civilized Human Beings." There's a question asked in this text. [Repeats

translation]

 

So I want to ask you for what reason and for whom, generally as we observe

in this world, for what and for whom are people maintaining the body for

sense gratification? [someone gives answer]

 

Yes, right, for themselves, their extended family and community. People are

thinking that I'll save money for my children and grandchildren, and all

will enjoy. But so often there's very little gratitude from the family as

our constitutional nature is higher, we are eternal servants of Krsna. So

this greedy motivation doesn't satisfy the self.

 

My mother-in-law was very sweet and actively saved a treasured set of china

plates for each of her children. She had three children and gave one to each

of them. Now this set had been used for 50 years for eating meat so I was

less than enthusiastic, and I think the others threw them in the basement,

and she was hurt by this. As a devotee we have to think that my love is

meant for Krsna. Not that we shouldn't love our children, but we should act

in such a way as to give this kind of love to them.

 

There's another story in India that Srila Prabhupada told how the

grandfather is treated like a household dog. The grandfather is lying on the

verandah and it's getting cold. So the father tells his son to go get a

blanket for the grandfather and the son says, "I'll take him half a blanket,

the other half is for you." This is ingratitude. So we have to give our

children Krsna consciousness; then we're giving them a love that will

outlast us and propel them to Krsna.

 

Srila Prabhupada, once here in New Vrindaban, saw two kittens playing and

wrestling on the grass and he said there is love and happiness in the

material world. Everyone was surprised to hear this from him, but then he

said that this happiness is like drops of water in the desert, it doesn't

satisfy the self.

 

Once Srila Prabhupada was asked after a lecture what was the purpose of

life. The devotees expected him to say for realize the Lord or something

similar, but he said the purpose of life is to enjoy. He explained it in a

dynamic way, that the purpose of life is to enjoy, to come to our real

position in relation to Krsna. Krsna plays so many pranks, he's so charming,

he has so much fun, he's so attractive. The idea is that our minds should

also become attracted to that and we should go back to him and enjoy as one

of his friends, lovers, parents, servants, cows, etc.

 

So we should take this as our urgent need, to be able to taste that love and

give our family the type of love that will take them back to Godhead, not

the type of love that will be an extension of our ego. An old Jewish lady

who comes to our store told me that her son was a doctor before he was born.

[laughter] So this is a very needy love, a need-based love; we have to go

beyond this to try to love purely without strings attached.

 

Rumi tells a story that there was a very wealthy doctor who brought his son

to the Islamic school to learn about God. So the Imam put him to cleaning

the bathrooms. The father returned some time later and was very surprised to

see this and said, "I could bring you ten Turkish slaves to clean the

bathroom, why have you put my son there?" The Imam replied that "If you have

a patient who is very sick and give the medicine to the Turkish slaves,

then? So your son has the disease of arrogance so to teach him gratitude and

humility this is the process."

 

In Bhagavad-gita we hear the analogy that the body is like a chariot, senses

are like five horses pulling it, mind is like the reins, intelligence is

supposed to be the driver, and the real person is the passenger. If we are

not dictating where we want to go, if they drag us here and there as they

like, then we will fall off the cliff. So we have to dictate that Krsna is

what we want, Srila Prabhupada's service is what we want.

 

So in this purport Srila Prabhupada is quoting the verse from Nectar of

Instruction:

 

vaco vegam manasah krodha vegam

jihva vegam udaropastha vegam

etan vegan yo visaheta dhirah

sarvam apimam prthivim sa sisyat

 

The verse says that if someone can control the pushings of the voice, mind,

anger, tongue, belly and gentitals, then he is qualified to accept disciples

all over the world. Srila Prabhupada is the example of this real sannyasa.

 

Once Srila Prabhupada was asked why all these people are worshipping him and

he said, "Because I have given up sex desire."

 

The unqualified sannyasi, the greedy pseudo-sannyasi, is so greedy that he

even eats meat. Prabhupada in particular is talking about a certain mission

in India which does a lot of humanitarian work, but he expertly doesn't

mention them by name as he said if you kill a skunk your hand will smell. So

this order is very active in Bengal. In India many people have Tulasi at

home, but this leader said, "Why grow Tulasi? Grow eggplant, at least you

will have something to eat." He was trying to destroy the natural bhakti of

the people. He especially mentions eggplant as eggplant is only for taste;

it doesn't have much nutrition.

 

Prabhupada would tell the story of the cheater and cheated. Some people

would dress up as sannyasis and congregate where other sannyasis were, but

their purpose was to attract women. At the same time there are some women

who think it would be good to have a child by a sannyasi--the child will be

powerful--and they go this place but ultimately get cheated by these false

sannyasis. If you want to love Krsna, he will reciprocate in full. But if

you want to cheat him, he will cheat you.

 

In Bengal there is a saying, "Biral tapasvi", the cat renunciate. I've seen

this, a cat on the bank of the Ganga waiting near the mouse hole, poised

just like in meditation staring into that mouse hole. Why is he a cheater?

As he is only fixed on sense gratification. The object is just sense

gratification. In Pancatantra there is a story of the old crane. He can't

catch the fish so fast any more, so he tells the fish trickily that "I've

become very detached now in my old age and taken sannyasa and I no longer

will eat fish." So the less intelligent fish comes closer and gets eaten by

the crane. This type of renunciation is not needed.

 

This word lampatah is used in the Siksastaka too, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu,

in the mood of Srimati Radharani, is calling Krsna a lampatah. But here the

word is used to mean an ordinary greedy person.

 

Another story from Rumi: when we go to the bank we watch the teller so

carefully as he counts our money, but when God sends blessings we don't

notice. The greedy person is counting more and more, lampatah. But there is

another type of lampatah which is mentioned in a beautiful verse from the

Padyavali:

 

viceyani vicaryani vicintyani punah punah

krpanasya dhananiva tvan-namani bhavantu nah

 

"O Lord, just as a miser continually collects, counts, and remembers his

money, in the same way let us continually collect, count, and remember Your

holy names."

 

Isn't that a nice meditation? This was versified by Dravida Prabhu.

 

One who has a taste for Krsna consciousness is greedy to count, collect and

contemplate Krsna's names. This is our constitutional nature. Just like Rupa

Goswami said that "If I had millions of tongues and ears then I could chant

properly." This is the type of greed we want to cultivate. When we don't try

to contemplate this then we are not satisfied and neither is Krsna as he is

also longing for us to come back.

 

The Christians say that God is jealous. We don't say exactly that, but

because he wants us to come back so in that sense he wants our exclusive

love, that we give up the contemporary love that occupies us. This brings us

to the point of Krsna as a lampatah:

 

aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam

adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va

yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato

mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah

 

So in this verse Lord Caitanya, in the voice of Radharani, is praying to

Krsna that I am your maidservant, I fall at your feet and you can embrace me

or trample me as you are a lampatah, not to be trusted. But you are my Lord

unconditionally.

 

Sometimes devotees would go away saying I should be a good Christian rather

than a bad devotee. But here Lord Caitanya says we must love the Lord

unconditionally.

 

What kind of a lover is Krsna? The gopis wanted to know this when they came

for the rasa-lila and he was teasing them saying they must have come to

admire the forest. They were getting so disturbed and asked him, "Are you

just like an ungrateful student who just wants to take and enjoy from the

guru, he lives in the ashram and eats and sleeps nicely and doesn't come to

the programme? Or are you the kind of lover who reciprocates evenly, or do

you give more like a parent? What kind of a lover are you?"

 

Krsna replied that "I am the type of lover who causes his lover's love to

increase." Like when a poor man gets rich and then loses it again, he

becomes mad. This is the kind of lover that Krsna is, he increases our love

by his reciprocation--or by his non-reciprocation.

 

There is a verse that Krsna is not in Vaikuntha or in the yogi's hearts, but

he is there where his devotees chant his names. Jiva Goswami explains this

and raises an objection, "But it's not true as we don't see you." Then he

explains in Krsna's voice, "I'm there when you're chanting but sometimes I'm

invisible to increase your love."

 

Many of us are mothers, but we can tell when the child is faking crying,

crocodile tears, but when they cry ardently, then you have to just drop

everything and run to them. Bhaktivinoda Thakur says we should chant with a

heart full of contrition, remorse at what we've done and praying to chant

the holy name without offence, then we can be protected from further

offence.

 

"Krsna gave me all shelter and I left him"--to feel this pain is the

beginning of pure chanting. Sometimes advanced devotees talk about this,

that, "I left Krsna, he gave me everything and I turned my back on him".

This laulyam is the only price. Krsna says "I am purchased by one who sings

my name with tears in the eyes," not just one who cries easily,

artificially. Gaurakisora Das Babaji said that when someone artificially

tries to act beyond their level, this is absurd like a girl who has never

had children pretending to have labour pains.

 

In Nectar of Devotion one of the qualifications of a devotee is to utilize

every moment in the service of the Lord. This is a real qualification.

 

The genuine prayer from the heart is needed. We all have that ability to

cry. Jean Paul Sartre, the existentialist, complained that it seems that the

human being is condemned to be God conscious, because it's embedded in us to

cry to God.

 

When Bhakti-tirtha Maharaja was very sick, on one of his last days, he came

to Sacinandana Swami in a dream. Sacinandana Swami was so happy and asked

him how he was feeling. Maharaja replied that there are two dogs fighting in

the heart; which one are you going to feed? He realized that the one that

you feed the most will win the fight. Both those dogs are greedy for the

love of your heart and they represent the lower nature and the higher

nature.

 

So there are three kinds of greed: the greed of the materialist, the greed

of a devotee and the greed of Krsna. This is mission of the human form of

life, to excavate this lost love.

 

Are there any questions or comments?

 

Question: A symptom of love is tears, but not false tears. What is it when

we experience something that moves us, and we tell it and we cry. . . ?

[incomplete]

 

Rukmini Mataji: You have to look in the heart and see the motivation. Am I

saying or doing this so Olivia will look over and see me and think, "Wow,

Rukmini is so advanced!" Are we doing this to get some kind of profit,

adoration or distinction, or to get some big maha plate as you are a big

GBC? You have to see the heart. Read the Nectar of Devotion very carefully,

the symptoms are given what is real advancement.

 

Comment: [unclear] People cry even at sad movies, we hear these stories and

the tears do come, it's not that we're trying to show anything but it is

more sentimental but if it's done along with sadhana then it can help.

 

Rukmini Mataji: That is shadow attachment, it is like an inkling of the real

thing. Sometimes devotees as they are chanting see Krsna in their mind and

think it is their imagination but it is real. This is the beginning. . . .

If you see the deities in their beautiful flower outfit and feel something,

this is real, the beginning.

 

Yes, Nidra Prabhu?

 

Nidra DD: Rukmini Prabhu, could you say something more about genuine greed

as we sometimes have an attachment for service but we may not want to share

that service with others and we think it is pure attachment. . . .

 

Rukmini Mataji: To be attached to Krsna's service is a wonderful thing and

we should want to share it with others and teach others. If you don't teach

others, then it's like a bucket with holes--everything will diminish if

we're not sharing. Ultimately we should try to be attached to Krsna himself.

In the beginning we may be attached to the service, but later we become

attached to Krsna himself. And to do that you can be conscious that you are

doing it for Krsna. If you are making ghee wicks you can think, "Krsna, I

hope you like these ghee wicks I'm making for you."

 

Nidra is very dedicated to book distribution. There are so many great souls

here, it's amazing. Krsnanandini has a wonderful story how she came to Krsna

consciousness.

 

Krsnanandini DD: Thank you for sharing from your heart. It's always very

wonderful to hear. My question is how does one avoid complacency in the long

run? In the beginning we may be very enthusiastic but that seems to slacken

with time.

 

Rukmini Mataji: In the neophyte stage this is known as ghana-tarala, thick

and thin. Like a little boy is going to school with a book and thinks

himself a big scholar, but then he throws it down and goes to play on the

swing.

 

When we feel our minds going into that phase of complacency we should cry

out to Krsna, we should cry to not go there. We should chant some verses,

make some ardent prayers. Meomorising verses is a great medicine for the

spaced-out mind. We should cry with sincere hearts. Just slap yourself,

don't let yourself go to that place. We are supposed to be constantly

chanting, the holy name, slokas.

 

Comment: It's very important to seek out the association of those who are

advanced as enthusiasm is contagious. [incomplete]

 

Rukmimi Mataji: Yes, this is coming from a verse spoken by Hiranyakasipu

that association is like a crystal stone, it reflects whatever is around it.

So choose your association carefully. If you have a friend whose association

pulls you down, then give them some maha and hang out with someone else. As

one devotee told me recently, we're living on borrowed time, at any moment

we may go. So hang with people who inspire you, who want Krsna. If you're

ironing or cooking, put on a tape and hear; there are so many wonderful

lectures by advanced devotees.

 

Comment: I had an instruction form Tamal Krsna Maharaja that when we're

chanting and feeling something and think it's real, to very strictly keep it

secret.

 

Rukmini Mataji: Yes, someone who wants to make a show is artificial. Our

acaryas like the Six Goswamis are searching for Krsna, not that they see

Krsna. We have to be very cautious of this; after Lord Caitanya our line

became contaminated by this sahajiyaism. So someone who is genuine will try

to hide it. Sometimes it may not be possible to always conceal it, like in

India once Prabhupada was singing Jaya Radha Madhava and couldn't control

his ecstasy. He went into a trance and all the devotees began chanting. But

generally our Goswamis are searching, "he radhe vraja devike", not sitting

smugly saying that "I am seeing Krsna." We hear this sometimes in India,

"Yes, my grandmother used to feed Krsna with her breast milk." [laughter]

 

Question: We women are naturally sentimental and emotional beings and

sometimes more feeling comes up when we are in the association of devotees.

If we stifle that then what happens?

 

Rukmini Mataji: It's not to be made a show, love for Krsna, but sharing with

your Godisisters and sharing Krsna consciousness and crying is wonderful.

There's so much love and attachment between devotees which is wonderful and

shouldn't be stifled. [missed some]

 

Mantrini DD: On one of the Srila Prabhupada memory tapes someone asked this

to Prabhupada, he says one shouldn't show this in public, but in the family

it is OK. It's among devotees, so it's not a show, it couldn't be more real

with these people like trusted Godsisters. [incomplete]

 

Comment: There's a story that among some followers of Gaurakisora Das Babaji

there was one rich man who was a false sadhu. He came to see Gaurakisora Das

Babaji and while they were chanting the man went into ecstasy, he was in a

trance while chanting. All the others were respecting him but Gaurakisora

Das Babaji ignored him and told him to leave. Some of the people there were

hurt by this but Gaurakisora Das Babaji told them that someone who has

genuine love for Krsna will not show it in public, just like a chaste wife

will not display any part of her body in public. But in the family of

devotees it's all right.

 

Rukmini Mataji: These are the symptoms of love, this is the goal, I think we

should stop here. Thank you very much, Haribol. Srila Prabhupada ki jai!

 

END.

 

[Note: transcript is not verbatim]

[Srimanta 0]

Sarva Sathya Guru Brahmana

Sarva Sathya Hari Hari

Goura Nitai Jaya Gouranga

Nittanandaya Advaita Prabhu

Sri Gadadhara Srivasadi

Bhakta Vrinda Jaya Haribol

Oh, Lord, What is said by Guru and Brahmana about supreme Lord Hari is all truth. I worship Goura, Nitai with all glory to Sri Gouranaga Mohaprabhu, Sri Nittananda Prabhu, Sri Advaita Prabhu, Sri Gadadhara Prabhu, Srivasadi all devotee of Lord Krsna, say Haribol