Humility & learning lessons of life - Mad/Mat

[Guest guest]

Dear Lakshmi ji

 

As two languages, Sanskrit and English, convey meanings in different

ways.When we say Pride in english -we have a certain image/concept

about the meaning it conveys.

If you were appointed to inquire into the meanings of mada -how will

you proceed?Will you go by English translations done by some or by

searching the sanskrit usages of the same?

 

If we check for mada we can find words like

madya,madira,madabhara,madalasa,madonmatha etc guiding us.Madabhara

is not pride filled but mada filled and what happens to a madabhara

person ,helps us in understanding mada.We can say ''intoxicated by

pride'' and thereby loosely translate mada as pride - with

intoxication as silent or understood.Rahu is not just intoxicating

the pride:depending on context he can excite lust,anger,and even

benevolence!!!.If a benevolent person becomes intoxicated,he might

give away all his wealth in charity!!!!

 

But this is now obsolete as you have backed out from Pride and moved

on to ''seperate identity (ego)''.If you read my previous mail,we

will understand Rahu is not the jeevatma(having dual feeling

becauase of ignorance) and is hence not ego.Thus based on the nature

of rahu and the attachment it gives - the common meaning of mada is

befitting.

 

You are far learned and having more than enough knowledge to guide

me,but still as a fellow student if i am allowed - Before

dismissing views and accusing of non acceptance,especially with a

person like Chandrashekhar ji's experience, we may have to think

from all possible angles.I would like to repeat my

comments ''Atmakaraka as Karaka for self is a great point made by

Chandrashekhar ji''.Think of the Rajayogas.

 

I do not think anybody is winning or loosing here.Many things that i

have written would not have been possible if your questions and

brilliant points were not there.Thus i have learned a lot.

 

If subtler meanings and fundamentals are not proper all our further

assumptions are in vain.

 

Regds

Prade

 

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Pradeep,

>

> The root word is "mad" and is applicable to both "I/mine" as in

mad-

> bhakta, madiya etc, as to "intoxication, passion" etc. Please

refer

> to monier-williams online dictionary, which, btw, is but a scanned

> version of the originalm, though Chandrasekhar ji seems to think

> differently. I am sure once you refer to the dictionaries you

would

> find a lot of phrases giving the meaning of "mada" as

> pride/arrogance:--))

>

> If you seriously consider, the root "mad" talks about

illusion/false

> feelings. Accordingly all the meanings of "mada" are derived from

> these roots. Hence the word "mada" can mean intoxication, passion,

> pride, conceit all...

>

> I have also not dismissed the other meanings of "mada" (please

refer

> to my previous emails) and honestly examined whether "mada" as

> intoxication, passion etc can form an integral part of the context

> of the shloka...whether these are universal phenomena. But I

found

> that "mada" as indicative of feeling of "ego/I/mine" is more

> universal/basic than "mada" as indicative of "intoxocation,

passion".

>

> I also request you to examine the "word" in all its connotations,

as

> applicable to the shloka.

>

> I will wait for your mail on "aham", but may not participate in

the

> discussions during Navaratri.

>

> Btw, I hope that Chadrasekhar ji understands that "kunda" does not

> mean mooladhara...it's kulakunda, and kula refers to mooladhara:--

))

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

 

Namaste Pradeep,

 

If you go through my mails from the begining, you'd observe that i

was the one who said that "abhimana" as self-respect could be good,

whereas it was Chandrasekhar ji who used Pride/ego sysnonymously, in

the case of Sun.

 

I agree that sanksrit-english one-to-one equivalences are not always

possible, but I am against using this awareness selectively. one

should apply it in all cases, fairly. I am basically against

discrimination, non-transparency, and pretenses in all forms, and

feel we can do very well without them.

 

You may think that i am fighting against Chandrasekhar ji, when in

fact i have always been fighting for him. Even now...if you know

what i mean:--))

 

Let's finish our discussions on nature of "Atma" and "aham"

meaningfully first, and then arrive at a better understanding,

because none of us really have it, before deciding what's their

appropriate/inappropriate meaning.

 

Btw, Visti must be quoting, someone authoritative for the shloka

from Saravali, whose knowledge could far exceed ours. so, let's not

be hasty in coming to a conclusion.

 

Regards,

Lakshmi

 

 

 

 

 

It was Chandrasekhar ji who interpreted Pride/ego as the same

meaning.

 

 

 

 

 

, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Lakshmi ji

>

> As two languages, Sanskrit and English, convey meanings in

different

> ways.When we say Pride in english -we have a certain image/concept

> about the meaning it conveys.

> If you were appointed to inquire into the meanings of mada -how

will

> you proceed?Will you go by English translations done by some or by

> searching the sanskrit usages of the same?

>

> If we check for mada we can find words like

> madya,madira,madabhara,madalasa,madonmatha etc guiding

us.Madabhara

> is not pride filled but mada filled and what happens to a

madabhara

> person ,helps us in understanding mada.We can say ''intoxicated by

> pride'' and thereby loosely translate mada as pride - with

> intoxication as silent or understood.Rahu is not just intoxicating

> the pride:depending on context he can excite lust,anger,and even

> benevolence!!!.If a benevolent person becomes intoxicated,he might

> give away all his wealth in charity!!!!

>

> But this is now obsolete as you have backed out from Pride and

moved

> on to ''seperate identity (ego)''.If you read my previous mail,we

> will understand Rahu is not the jeevatma(having dual feeling

> becauase of ignorance) and is hence not ego.Thus based on the

nature

> of rahu and the attachment it gives - the common meaning of mada

is

> befitting.

>

> You are far learned and having more than enough knowledge to guide

> me,but still as a fellow student if i am allowed - Before

> dismissing views and accusing of non acceptance,especially with a

> person like Chandrashekhar ji's experience, we may have to think

> from all possible angles.I would like to repeat my

> comments ''Atmakaraka as Karaka for self is a great point made by

> Chandrashekhar ji''.Think of the Rajayogas.

>

> I do not think anybody is winning or loosing here.Many things that

i

> have written would not have been possible if your questions and

> brilliant points were not there.Thus i have learned a lot.

>

> If subtler meanings and fundamentals are not proper all our

further

> assumptions are in vain.

>

> Regds

> Prade

>

> , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > The root word is "mad" and is applicable to both "I/mine" as in

> mad-

> > bhakta, madiya etc, as to "intoxication, passion" etc. Please

> refer

> > to monier-williams online dictionary, which, btw, is but a

scanned

> > version of the originalm, though Chandrasekhar ji seems to think

> > differently. I am sure once you refer to the dictionaries you

> would

> > find a lot of phrases giving the meaning of "mada" as

> > pride/arrogance:--))

> >

> > If you seriously consider, the root "mad" talks about

> illusion/false

> > feelings. Accordingly all the meanings of "mada" are derived

from

> > these roots. Hence the word "mada" can mean intoxication,

passion,

> > pride, conceit all...

> >

> > I have also not dismissed the other meanings of "mada" (please

> refer

> > to my previous emails) and honestly examined whether "mada" as

> > intoxication, passion etc can form an integral part of the

context

> > of the shloka...whether these are universal phenomena. But I

> found

> > that "mada" as indicative of feeling of "ego/I/mine" is more

> > universal/basic than "mada" as indicative of "intoxocation,

> passion".

> >

> > I also request you to examine the "word" in all its

connotations,

> as

> > applicable to the shloka.

> >

> > I will wait for your mail on "aham", but may not participate in

> the

> > discussions during Navaratri.

> >

> > Btw, I hope that Chadrasekhar ji understands that "kunda" does

not

> > mean mooladhara...it's kulakunda, and kula refers to mooladhara:-

-

> ))

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

>