Humility & learning lessons of life/Lakshmi ji -Aham

September 21, 2006

Dear Lakshmi ji

As promised please find my understanding.Pure Bodha or Consciousness

is NON Dual.

Now -

1)Why is Mukthi or liberation needed? 2)Is somebody trapped? 3)If yes

who is this ''party -misconcept'' needing liberation 4)Where is the

same trapped 5)What is the effect of this trap?

Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

entity ,resulting in Duality.Objects in Prakrithi and similarly every

body can be treated as ''Mirrors''.It is the same bodha, but, falling

on different mirrors.Hence it is called Reflection.Since bodha is

having chetana it can enliven the body through the inherent

Shakthi.From thereon we call him jeevatma and is the provider of

necessary life force for executing Karmas.Interestingly it is these

very Karmas that sustains the trap!!.

It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all karma

bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody else.Mind,Indiryas and

Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling.Maya is at the will of HIM.As

long as jivatma follows the mind(means unaware of its real nature and

identifying itself with mental perceptions)there is a seperate

identity.This false feeling of jivatma is Aham.Detachment is about

stopping this ''i follow you'' business.As Chandrashekhar ji has said

moving away and observing the mind,in a detached fashion will solve

all the puzzles.Atma is the only party capable of taming the mind -if

and only if it understands that ''i'' am not ''mind,this body or

name''.Beginning of spiritual learning is this knowledge.Realization

is TOTAL merger.

When we ask who am i,who am i,whom am i - where do we reach?.It was

ofcourse the dual feeling(i) for the undivided part of the NON dUAL!!!

This Jeevatma is not Rahu.I feel now it is clear why AtmaKaraka is the

Karaka for Self.I request Chandrashekhar ji to correct me.Rahu is

neither the Pride.Pride is always for the self because of

attachments,false identification,ignorance.Rahu is that intoxicating

agent,which makes us attached to Vishayas and Sukhas or in other words

earthly attachment.

It is not a small role as you say.It is acting as a

catalyst(intoxication) for Karma bandhas which is necessary for

learning.Initially we started the discussion with pride as Rahu and

now you have safely anchored on to ego as in ''seperate identity and

giving Rahu a bigger role:-).Rahu is not ''Í'''.It is also the

reversing agent.Why Simha rashi has nature ''Garvadhikya'' should also

be clear.Surya is the subtle core,but jivatma has false conceptions

until realization.

Now would you think Vistiji may correct his article.

Thanks

Pradeep

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Pradeep,

>

> I also miss a lot of mails quite often, so it doesn't surprise me.

>

> Coming to the comment about "grey area"...well it's supposed to make

> you laugh, and i myself was laughing when i wrote it:--))Infact, i

> am hardly ever serious in life and you can find me laughing at the

> drop of a hat!

>

> As i said in my other mail, I will await your feedback and the

> possible corrections you may suggest in my approach/understanding.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lakshmi ji

> >

> > Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

> > mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss this:)).

> >

> > Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

> > is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am able to

> > explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is aham is

> > well explained in your mail.

> >

> > But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it is a

> > GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

> >

> > As i have said before, Rahu is considered as a ''VazhiChenda''(a

> > road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean all

> bad

> > things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning of Mada

> > in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

> > Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article if he

> > wish.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > >

> > > As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent, quite

> > recent

> > > (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham" and

> > hope

> > > for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and Prafulla

> > ji.

> > >

> > > As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives rise

> to

> > > actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the Chandala

> > said

> > > to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it

> soul,

> > > but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body nor the

> > > soul.

> > >

> > > "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which

> basis

> > it

> > > is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For example, to

> > name

> > > a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni has the

> > > ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These basic

> > > abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> > > distinctive/individual identity (aham).

> > >

> > > Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

> > certain

> > > species which set them apart from others. So is the case with

> > > animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the

> creation,

> > > which is slotted into various categories, though it's all

> emanated

> > > from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa jnaanam.

> > >

> > > Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> > > different organs of the body too. They all have their appointed

> > > abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has the

> > > ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the body,

> > while

> > > legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can do the

> > > other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

> > >

> > > If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego because

> it

> > > has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the body, is

> it

> > > correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to control

> > the

> > > processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will the

> body

> > > be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--))

> > >

> > > God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity (ego),

> > and

> > > how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta),

> which

> > is

> > > a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different species

> > are

> > > able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

> > >

> > > But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul, and

> > mistake

> > > this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the

> problems

> > > crop up, and as you said, various attachments / aberrations seep

> > in.

> > >

> > > Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push it

> down

> > > (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly pierce

> the

> > > eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that he's

> in

> > > the true sense "Trivikrama"!

> > >

> > > Rahu represents this "aham" because

> > >

> > > 1)it's a grey area:--))

> > >

> > > 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently in

> > > different beings, according to their species/categories.

> Similarly

> > > Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house lords/conjoined

> > > planets, and gives different results.

> > >

> > > 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!) which

> > > represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

> > >

> > > I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at least

> > > some sense:--))

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -

> nothing

> > > > belongs

> > > > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present, there is a

> > > > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is called

> EGO

> > or

> > > > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For example

> a

> > > King

> > > > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth etc

> > > > resulting in

> > > > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > > > >

> > > > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for

> Atman.Though

> > > > Atman is

> > > > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

> > purpose

> > > of

> > > > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided but

> part

> > of

> > > > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > > > superimposition

> > > > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

> > Sankara.The

> > > > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first entry

> as

> > > far

> > > > as

> > > > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by mind.Atma

> as

> > > well

> > > > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual feeling

> of

> > > > > me/mine is ''í''.

> > > > >

> > > > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have Death

> > and

> > > > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact

> between

> > > > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth) making us

> > > clutch

> > > > on

> > > > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> > > intoxication

> > > > is

> > > > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

> > enhancing

> > > > the

> > > > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just

> keeping

> > > > > together the already manifested superimposition

> (Atma/Mind).The

> > > > level

> > > > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology the

> > > > strength of

> > > > > moon and further associations.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus does

> > not

> > > > make

> > > > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage(not

> > > because

> > > > of

> > > > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before

> realization

> > > nor

> > > > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma identifies

> > > itself

> > > > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or in

> > other

> > > > words

> > > > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > > > >

> > > > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should

> think

> > of

> > > > feet

> > > > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

> > EGO ,what

> > > is

> > > > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please tell me

> > what

> > > is

> > > > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated

> illusion

> > > in

> > > > our

> > > > > context?.

> > > > >

> > > > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to maya

> > (which

> > > is

> > > > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him(but

> part

> > of

> > > > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

> > catalyst

> > > or

> > > > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > > > >

> > > > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is still

> (if

> > > it

> > > > is

> > > > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun brahman.Kind of

> > > > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he is.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise space is

> > > created

> > > > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into picture).Brahman

> and

> > > > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > > > understanding

> > > > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail to

> > > > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting

> > > > that "ego" is

> > > > > > found only in some people. If we interpret

> dispassionately,

> > > > perhaps

> > > > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that ego (

> > > > necessary

> > > > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every being,

> as

> > > much

> > > > as

> > > > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't find

> > us

> > > > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have ego,

> you

> > > have

> > > > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it, perhaps

> > in

> > > > > > different degrees.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only to

> some

> > > > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> > > exceptions! "Ego"

> > > > is

> > > > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like the

> > > > kundalini

> > > > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> > > dissolving

> > > > this

> > > > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a

> state

> > > of

> > > > > > Realization.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet exhilerating

> > > > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included

> > > > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the

> > above

> > > > and

> > > > > > > result

> > > > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

> > reference

> > > > was

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> > > certified

> > > > to

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > impeccable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn

> > > gives

> > > > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall

> > > > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it,

> > please

> > > > let

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > know.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not

> say

> > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly

> > > said

> > > > any

> > > > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing

> > > > > > convoluted

> > > > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when

> > it

> > > > > > doesn't?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing

> either

> > > Sun

> > > > or

> > > > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that

> > > Rahu

> > > > is

> > > > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when involved

> in

> > > > such

> > > > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these

> days

> > > is

> > > > for

> > > > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> > > context.Why

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > > > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator

> > of "I"-

> > > a

> > > > > > false

> > > > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego

> > (as

> > > > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This

> feeling

> > is

> > > > also

> > > > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

> > individual

> > > > being

> > > > > > > different from other.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he

> > > enters

> > > > the

> > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is

> > > > > > taking ,until

> > > > > > > self

> > > > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning

> > > about

> > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling

> > > > of ''I''.It

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you

> > tell

> > > me

> > > > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship

> by

> > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma

> > > (Saturn)

> > > > and

> > > > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth

> > takes

> > > > place

> > > > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel

> > > trapped

> > > > in a

> > > > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time?

> > Does

> > > he

> > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because

> > he

> > > > causes

> > > > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-

> > > > mails, "ego"

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself

> have

> > > said

> > > > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us

> > > giving

> > > > us

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> > > together,

> > > > > > please

> > > > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

> > illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > > > idea

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> > > understand

> > > > the

> > > > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have

> > > nothing

> > > > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

> > bringing

> > > > me

> > > > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present discussion:-

> -

> > ))

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the

> > > > shloka

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply

> > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication"

> belong

> > in

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

> > perhaps

> > > > you

> > > > > > > missed

> > > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada

> > does

> > > > mean

> > > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to

> > > kaamana

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is

> what

> > > > Asteya,

> > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can

> be

> > > > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any

> > > > purpose. I

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya

> > > > related to

> > > > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka,

> > to

> > > > > > support

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious

> > and

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already

> > posted

> > > > the

> > > > > > way

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument,

> so

> > I

> > > > shall

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would

> like

> > to

> > > > quote

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant

> > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to

> > > > translate

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta

> > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä

> > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

> > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

> > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

> > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä

> > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your

> > > > > > contention.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so

> > > that

> > > > I

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your

> > > > > > propositions

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you

> by

> > > > pointing

> > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and

> Rahu

> > > > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if

> I

> > > > have

> > > > > > done

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger),

> > > lobha

> > > > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and

> maatsarya

> > > > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply

> > among

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > > > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini"

> > and

> > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of

> > > both

> > > > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be

> > > routed

> > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the

> > same?

> > > > The

> > > > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use,

> > is

> > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati,

> > wisdom

> > > > and

> > > > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the

> > > > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti

> is

> > > very

> > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and

> > krura.

> > > I

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give

> > > malefic

> > > > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You

> can

> > > > refer to

> > > > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning

> or

> > > > losing an

> > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an

> > > > exploration

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case,

> I

> > > see

> > > > no

> > > > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age

> are

> > > > > > operating

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not

> die

> > > > young.

> > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

> > Swamiji's

> > > > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of

> > > > apparent

> > > > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart

> > > confirms

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not

> > > know

> > > > I

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there

> is

> > a

> > > > Kuja

> > > > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do

> not

> > > > bring

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> > > astrological

> > > > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions

> are

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The

> > two

> > > > have

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an

> event

> > > but

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you

> have

> > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in

> > > that

> > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read

> > my

> > > > mail,

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only

> > > that

> > > > it

> > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and

> > > always

> > > > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the

> > topic,

> > > > did

> > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > > > Vivekananda's

> > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a

> > > > powerful

> > > > > > Raj

> > > > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji

> lived,

> > > you

> > > > may

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

> > Mahakrura.

> > > > Think

> > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before

> > > > declaring

> > > > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu

> > and

> > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that

> he

> > > > passed

> > > > > > > away in

> > > > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10

> > > > (3:59:13

> > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-

> 27

> > > > (4:48:54

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12

> > > > (10:43:55

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07

> > > > (5:06:28

> > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-

> 06

> > > > (2:29:24

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05

> > > (1:27:03

> > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is

> > the

> > > > 2nd

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in

> > the

> > > > house

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the

> > 2nd

> > > > lord

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > > > significations

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early

> > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting

> 7th

> > > > house,

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the

> > > > influence

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th

> > house?

> > > I

> > > > am

> > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))

> > but

> > > > > > without

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he

> > created

> > > > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the

> 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in

> the

> > > 7th

> > > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think

> the

> > > > strong

> > > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have

> > not

> > > > > > > commented

> > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already

> stated

> > in

> > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to

> great

> > > > people,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of

> > what

> > > I

> > > > > > said.

> > > > > > > Did

> > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant

> > > > sarcoma

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > left

> > > > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his

> > > chart,

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine

> > the

> > > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd

> > lord

> > > > from

> > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart,

> > rahu

> > > > is

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all

> of

> > > > which

> > > > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house

> and

> > > > ketu

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect,

> if

> > > at

> > > > all,

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03

> > > > (2:05:32

> > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21

> > > > (8:49:14

> > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18

> > > > (12:04:47

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20

> > > > (12:18:02

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-

> 14

> > > > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14

> > > > (12:47:04

> > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the

> > > dasa

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think

> > > their

> > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the

> > above

> > > > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in

> > my

> > > > next

> > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong

> as

> > a

> > > > planet

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even

> when

> > > in

> > > > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane

> > > smritam

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered

> > > > Mars/Venus

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please

> go

> > > > through

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and

> > that

> > > > he

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its

> soft

> > > > language.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics

> giving

> > > > P.M.

> > > > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga

> > > > attributed

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine

> > they

> > > > would

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all

> > with

> > > > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of

> > India

> > > > > > (barring

> > > > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave

> us

> > > > > > principles

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using

> > > > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving

> > the

> > > > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old

> > > classic

> > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to

> > accept

> > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr.

> > Raman,

> > > > it

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the

> shloka

> > I

> > > > would

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri

> B.V.

> > > > Raman

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good

> > > results,

> > > > > > while

> > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

> > disagree

> > > > about

> > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

> > contrary

> > > to

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I

> > find

> > > > that

> > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor

> > that

> > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna

> and

> > > > mars in

> > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in

> > lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted

> Saturn

> > > > (9H)

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi,

> while

> > > > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > > > for "vipareetam

> > > > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to

> Saturn's

> > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn

> > > gives

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is

> > > > because i

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

> > 40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is,

> > > that

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and

> > the

> > > > > > shubha

> > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak

> > and

> > > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9

> > > years

> > > > > > old,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't

> > > notice

> > > > the

> > > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the

> > difference

> > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu

> is

> > > > giving

> > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good,

> > then

> > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart

> because

> > > > > > according

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak,

> > give

> > > > bad

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong

> > > planets,

> > > > even

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he

> > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly

> > combust

> > > > and

> > > > > > > inferior

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of

> > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according

> > > to "300

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher

> > shadbala

> > > > is

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you

> to

> > > read

> > > > the

> > > > > > > Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died,

> > the

> > > > > > nature

> > > > > > > bowed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons

> in

> > > > > > > Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because

> > Parashurama

> > > > would

> > > > > > > teach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to

> learn

> > > > > > > dhanurvidya

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana.

> > > Deceit

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's

> to

> > be

> > > > borne

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please

> > > > Duryodhana,

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from

> > 8th

> > > > house

> > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural

> > zodiac,

> > > > the

> > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents

> > > > > > > south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the

> lord

> > of

> > > > > > death,

> > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So,

> the

> > > > Rudras

> > > > > > > > > (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun

> resides

> > > in

> > > > > > south

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he

> > has

> > > > > > digbala

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I

> referred

> > > to

> > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma

> > and

> > > > not

> > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the

> > subject.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the

> > results

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father

> > had

> > > > > > > promotions

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that

> > time.

> > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age

> of

> > 9

> > > or

> > > > so

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you

> did

> > > not

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu

> > and

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction,

> as

> > > you

> > > > > > > guessed but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a

> Dharmakarmaadhipati

> > > yoga

> > > > > > after

> > > > > > > all)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its

> dasha

> > > > instead

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because

> I

> > > say

> > > > so

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when

> conjunct

> > a

> > > > papa

> > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of

> Artha

> > > > trikona

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though

> > > > claimed to

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th)

> > and

> > > > its

> > > > > > > home

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is

> more

> > > > > > popularly

> > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it

> > is

> > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun

> > be

> > > at

> > > > its

> > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not

> > represent

> > > > water

> > > > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent

> too.

> > > My

> > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were

> great

> > > and

> > > > i

> > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative

> > > > writing,

> > > > > > > Veena,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a

> > student,

> > > I

> > > > > > guess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if

> > Sun

> > > > were

> > > > > > > weak?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but

> > > being

> > > > in

> > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is

> > > also

> > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic

> > and

> > > > > > heavily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent

> burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water

> > > > bodies,

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the

> > best

> > > > spam

> > > > > > > > > protection

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-

> date.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > > 268.11.7/435 -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have

> > > been

> > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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> > > > > > > > > -

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > 268.12.2/441 -

> > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

> --

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> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > 268.12.2/442 -

> > >

> > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > ________

> > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version

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> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 -

>

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> >

>

September 21, 2006

Dear Pradeep,

You have explained it right.

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Lakshmi ji

>

> As promised please find my understanding.Pure Bodha or Consciousness

> is NON Dual.

>

> Now -

>

> 1)Why is Mukthi or liberation needed? 2)Is somebody trapped? 3)If yes

> who is this ''party -misconcept'' needing liberation 4)Where is the

> same trapped 5)What is the effect of this trap?

>

> Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

> entity ,resulting in Duality.Objects in Prakrithi and similarly every

> body can be treated as ''Mirrors''.It is the same bodha, but, falling

> on different mirrors.Hence it is called Reflection.Since bodha is

> having chetana it can enliven the body through the inherent

> Shakthi.From thereon we call him jeevatma and is the provider of

> necessary life force for executing Karmas.Interestingly it is these

> very Karmas that sustains the trap!!.

>

> It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all karma

> bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

> Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody else.Mind,Indiryas and

> Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling.Maya is at the will of HIM.As

> long as jivatma follows the mind(means unaware of its real nature and

> identifying itself with mental perceptions)there is a seperate

> identity.This false feeling of jivatma is Aham.Detachment is about

> stopping this ''i follow you'' business.As Chandrashekhar ji has said

> moving away and observing the mind,in a detached fashion will solve

> all the puzzles.Atma is the only party capable of taming the mind -if

> and only if it understands that ''i'' am not ''mind,this body or

> name''.Beginning of spiritual learning is this knowledge.Realization

> is TOTAL merger.

> When we ask who am i,who am i,whom am i - where do we reach?.It was

> ofcourse the dual feeling(i) for the undivided part of the NON dUAL!!!

>

> This Jeevatma is not Rahu.I feel now it is clear why AtmaKaraka is the

> Karaka for Self.I request Chandrashekhar ji to correct me.Rahu is

> neither the Pride.Pride is always for the self because of

> attachments,false identification,ignorance.Rahu is that intoxicating

> agent,which makes us attached to Vishayas and Sukhas or in other words

> earthly attachment.

> It is not a small role as you say.It is acting as a

> catalyst(intoxication) for Karma bandhas which is necessary for

> learning.Initially we started the discussion with pride as Rahu and

> now you have safely anchored on to ego as in ''seperate identity and

> giving Rahu a bigger role:-).Rahu is not ''Í'''.It is also the

> reversing agent.Why Simha rashi has nature ''Garvadhikya'' should also

> be clear.Surya is the subtle core,but jivatma has false conceptions

> until realization.

>

> Now would you think Vistiji may correct his article.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > I also miss a lot of mails quite often, so it doesn't surprise me.

> >

> > Coming to the comment about "grey area"...well it's supposed to make

> > you laugh, and i myself was laughing when i wrote it:--))Infact, i

> > am hardly ever serious in life and you can find me laughing at the

> > drop of a hat!

> >

> > As i said in my other mail, I will await your feedback and the

> > possible corrections you may suggest in my approach/understanding.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> <%40>, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > >

> > > Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

> > > mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss this:)).

> > >

> > > Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

> > > is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am able to

> > > explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is aham is

> > > well explained in your mail.

> > >

> > > But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it is a

> > > GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

> > >

> > > As i have said before, Rahu is considered as a ''VazhiChenda''(a

> > > road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean all

> > bad

> > > things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning of Mada

> > > in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

> > > Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article if he

> > > wish.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent, quite

> > > recent

> > > > (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham" and

> > > hope

> > > > for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and Prafulla

> > > ji.

> > > >

> > > > As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives rise

> > to

> > > > actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the Chandala

> > > said

> > > > to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it

> > soul,

> > > > but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body nor the

> > > > soul.

> > > >

> > > > "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which

> > basis

> > > it

> > > > is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For example, to

> > > name

> > > > a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni has the

> > > > ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These basic

> > > > abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> > > > distinctive/individual identity (aham).

> > > >

> > > > Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

> > > certain

> > > > species which set them apart from others. So is the case with

> > > > animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the

> > creation,

> > > > which is slotted into various categories, though it's all

> > emanated

> > > > from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa jnaanam.

> > > >

> > > > Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> > > > different organs of the body too. They all have their appointed

> > > > abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has the

> > > > ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the body,

> > > while

> > > > legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can do the

> > > > other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

> > > >

> > > > If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego because

> > it

> > > > has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the body, is

> > it

> > > > correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to control

> > > the

> > > > processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will the

> > body

> > > > be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--))

> > > >

> > > > God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity (ego),

> > > and

> > > > how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta),

> > which

> > > is

> > > > a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different species

> > > are

> > > > able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

> > > >

> > > > But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul, and

> > > mistake

> > > > this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the

> > problems

> > > > crop up, and as you said, various attachments / aberrations seep

> > > in.

> > > >

> > > > Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push it

> > down

> > > > (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly pierce

> > the

> > > > eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that he's

> > in

> > > > the true sense "Trivikrama"!

> > > >

> > > > Rahu represents this "aham" because

> > > >

> > > > 1)it's a grey area:--))

> > > >

> > > > 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently in

> > > > different beings, according to their species/categories.

> > Similarly

> > > > Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house lords/conjoined

> > > > planets, and gives different results.

> > > >

> > > > 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!) which

> > > > represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at least

> > > > some sense:--))

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -

> > nothing

> > > > > belongs

> > > > > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present, there is a

> > > > > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is called

> > EGO

> > > or

> > > > > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For example

> > a

> > > > King

> > > > > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth etc

> > > > > resulting in

> > > > > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for

> > Atman.Though

> > > > > Atman is

> > > > > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

> > > purpose

> > > > of

> > > > > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided but

> > part

> > > of

> > > > > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > > > > superimposition

> > > > > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

> > > Sankara.The

> > > > > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first entry

> > as

> > > > far

> > > > > as

> > > > > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by mind.Atma

> > as

> > > > well

> > > > > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual feeling

> > of

> > > > > > me/mine is ''í''.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have Death

> > > and

> > > > > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact

> > between

> > > > > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth) making us

> > > > clutch

> > > > > on

> > > > > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> > > > intoxication

> > > > > is

> > > > > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

> > > enhancing

> > > > > the

> > > > > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just

> > keeping

> > > > > > together the already manifested superimposition

> > (Atma/Mind).The

> > > > > level

> > > > > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology the

> > > > > strength of

> > > > > > moon and further associations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus does

> > > not

> > > > > make

> > > > > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage(not

> > > > because

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before

> > realization

> > > > nor

> > > > > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma identifies

> > > > itself

> > > > > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or in

> > > other

> > > > > words

> > > > > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should

> > think

> > > of

> > > > > feet

> > > > > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

> > > EGO ,what

> > > > is

> > > > > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please tell me

> > > what

> > > > is

> > > > > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated

> > illusion

> > > > in

> > > > > our

> > > > > > context?.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to maya

> > > (which

> > > > is

> > > > > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him(but

> > part

> > > of

> > > > > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

> > > catalyst

> > > > or

> > > > > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is still

> > (if

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun brahman.Kind of

> > > > > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise space is

> > > > created

> > > > > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into picture).Brahman

> > and

> > > > > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > > > > understanding

> > > > > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail to

> > > > > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting

> > > > > that "ego" is

> > > > > > > found only in some people. If we interpret

> > dispassionately,

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that ego (

> > > > > necessary

> > > > > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every being,

> > as

> > > > much

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't find

> > > us

> > > > > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have ego,

> > you

> > > > have

> > > > > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it, perhaps

> > > in

> > > > > > > different degrees.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only to

> > some

> > > > > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> > > > exceptions! "Ego"

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like the

> > > > > kundalini

> > > > > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> > > > dissolving

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a

> > state

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Realization.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet exhilerating

> > > > > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included

> > > > > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the

> > > above

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > result

> > > > > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

> > > reference

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> > > > certified

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > impeccable.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn

> > > > gives

> > > > > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall

> > > > > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it,

> > > please

> > > > > let

> > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > know.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not

> > say

> > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly

> > > > said

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing

> > > > > > > convoluted

> > > > > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when

> > > it

> > > > > > > doesn't?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing

> > either

> > > > Sun

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when involved

> > in

> > > > > such

> > > > > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these

> > days

> > > > is

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> > > > context.Why

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > > > > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator

> > > of "I"-

> > > > a

> > > > > > > false

> > > > > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego

> > > (as

> > > > > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This

> > feeling

> > > is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

> > > individual

> > > > > being

> > > > > > > > different from other.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he

> > > > enters

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is

> > > > > > > taking ,until

> > > > > > > > self

> > > > > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning

> > > > about

> > > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling

> > > > > of ''I''.It

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you

> > > tell

> > > > me

> > > > > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship

> > by

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma

> > > > (Saturn)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth

> > > takes

> > > > > place

> > > > > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel

> > > > trapped

> > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time?

> > > Does

> > > > he

> > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because

> > > he

> > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-

> > > > > mails, "ego"

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself

> > have

> > > > said

> > > > > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us

> > > > giving

> > > > > us

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> > > > together,

> > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

> > > illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > > > > idea

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> > > > understand

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have

> > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

> > > bringing

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present discussion:-

> > -

> > > ))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the

> > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply

> > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication"

> > belong

> > > in

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

> > > perhaps

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > > missed

> > > > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada

> > > does

> > > > > mean

> > > > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to

> > > > kaamana

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is

> > what

> > > > > Asteya,

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can

> > be

> > > > > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any

> > > > > purpose. I

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya

> > > > > related to

> > > > > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka,

> > > to

> > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious

> > > and

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already

> > > posted

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > way

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument,

> > so

> > > I

> > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would

> > like

> > > to

> > > > > quote

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant

> > > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to

> > > > > translate

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta

> > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä

> > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

> > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

> > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

> > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä

> > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your

> > > > > > > contention.

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so

> > > > that

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your

> > > > > > > propositions

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you

> > by

> > > > > pointing

> > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and

> > Rahu

> > > > > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if

> > I

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger),

> > > > lobha

> > > > > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and

> > maatsarya

> > > > > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply

> > > among

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > > > > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini"

> > > and

> > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of

> > > > both

> > > > > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be

> > > > routed

> > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the

> > > same?

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use,

> > > is

> > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati,

> > > wisdom

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the

> > > > > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti

> > is

> > > > very

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and

> > > krura.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give

> > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You

> > can

> > > > > refer to

> > > > > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning

> > or

> > > > > losing an

> > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an

> > > > > exploration

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case,

> > I

> > > > see

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age

> > are

> > > > > > > operating

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not

> > die

> > > > > young.

> > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

> > > Swamiji's

> > > > > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of

> > > > > apparent

> > > > > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart

> > > > confirms

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not

> > > > know

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there

> > is

> > > a

> > > > > Kuja

> > > > > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do

> > not

> > > > > bring

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions

> > are

> > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The

> > > two

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an

> > event

> > > > but

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you

> > have

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read

> > > my

> > > > > mail,

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only

> > > > that

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and

> > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the

> > > topic,

> > > > > did

> > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > > > > Vivekananda's

> > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a

> > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > Raj

> > > > > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji

> > lived,

> > > > you

> > > > > may

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

> > > Mahakrura.

> > > > > Think

> > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before

> > > > > declaring

> > > > > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu

> > > and

> > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that

> > he

> > > > > passed

> > > > > > > > away in

> > > > > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10

> > > > > (3:59:13

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-

> > 27

> > > > > (4:48:54

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12

> > > > > (10:43:55

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07

> > > > > (5:06:28

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-

> > 06

> > > > > (2:29:24

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05

> > > > (1:27:03

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is

> > > the

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in

> > > the

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the

> > > 2nd

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > > > > significations

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early

> > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting

> > 7th

> > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the

> > > > > influence

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th

> > > house?

> > > > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))

> > > but

> > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he

> > > created

> > > > > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the

> > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in

> > the

> > > > 7th

> > > > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think

> > the

> > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have

> > > not

> > > > > > > > commented

> > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already

> > stated

> > > in

> > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to

> > great

> > > > > people,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of

> > > what

> > > > I

> > > > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > Did

> > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant

> > > > > sarcoma

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > left

> > > > > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his

> > > > chart,

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine

> > > the

> > > > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd

> > > lord

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart,

> > > rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all

> > of

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house

> > and

> > > > > ketu

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect,

> > if

> > > > at

> > > > > all,

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03

> > > > > (2:05:32

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21

> > > > > (8:49:14

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18

> > > > > (12:04:47

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20

> > > > > (12:18:02

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-

> > 14

> > > > > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14

> > > > > (12:47:04

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the

> > > > dasa

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think

> > > > their

> > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the

> > > above

> > > > > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in

> > > my

> > > > > next

> > > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong

> > as

> > > a

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even

> > when

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane

> > > > smritam

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered

> > > > > Mars/Venus

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please

> > go

> > > > > through

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and

> > > that

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its

> > soft

> > > > > language.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics

> > giving

> > > > > P.M.

> > > > > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga

> > > > > attributed

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine

> > > they

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all

> > > with

> > > > > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of

> > > India

> > > > > > > (barring

> > > > > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave

> > us

> > > > > > > principles

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using

> > > > > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving

> > > the

> > > > > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old

> > > > classic

> > > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to

> > > accept

> > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr.

> > > Raman,

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the

> > shloka

> > > I

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri

> > B.V.

> > > > > Raman

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good

> > > > results,

> > > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

> > > disagree

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

> > > contrary

> > > > to

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I

> > > find

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor

> > > that

> > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna

> > and

> > > > > mars in

> > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in

> > > lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted

> > Saturn

> > > > > (9H)

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi,

> > while

> > > > > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > > > > for "vipareetam

> > > > > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to

> > Saturn's

> > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn

> > > > gives

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is

> > > > > because i

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

> > > 40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is,

> > > > that

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and

> > > the

> > > > > > > shubha

> > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak

> > > and

> > > > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9

> > > > years

> > > > > > > old,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't

> > > > notice

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the

> > > difference

> > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu

> > is

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good,

> > > then

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart

> > because

> > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak,

> > > give

> > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong

> > > > planets,

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he

> > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly

> > > combust

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > inferior

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of

> > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according

> > > > to "300

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher

> > > shadbala

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you

> > to

> > > > read

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died,

> > > the

> > > > > > > nature

> > > > > > > > bowed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons

> > in

> > > > > > > > Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because

> > > Parashurama

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > teach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to

> > learn

> > > > > > > > dhanurvidya

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana.

> > > > Deceit

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's

> > to

> > > be

> > > > > borne

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please

> > > > > Duryodhana,

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from

> > > 8th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural

> > > zodiac,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents

> > > > > > > > south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the

> > lord

> > > of

> > > > > > > death,

> > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So,

> > the

> > > > > Rudras

> > > > > > > > > > (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun

> > resides

> > > > in

> > > > > > > south

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he

> > > has

> > > > > > > digbala

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I

> > referred

> > > > to

> > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma

> > > and

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the

> > > subject.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the

> > > results

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father

> > > had

> > > > > > > > promotions

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that

> > > time.

> > > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age

> > of

> > > 9

> > > > or

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you

> > did

> > > > not

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu

> > > and

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction,

> > as

> > > > you

> > > > > > > > guessed but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a

> > Dharmakarmaadhipati

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > all)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its

> > dasha

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because

> > I

> > > > say

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when

> > conjunct

> > > a

> > > > > papa

> > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of

> > Artha

> > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though

> > > > > claimed to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th)

> > > and

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > home

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is

> > more

> > > > > > > popularly

> > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it

> > > is

> > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun

> > > be

> > > > at

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not

> > > represent

> > > > > water

> > > > > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent

> > too.

> > > > My

> > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were

> > great

> > > > and

> > > > > i

> > > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative

> > > > > writing,

> > > > > > > > Veena,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a

> > > student,

> > > > I

> > > > > > > guess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if

> > > Sun

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > weak?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but

> > > > being

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is

> > > > also

> > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic

> > > and

> > > > > > > heavily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent

> > burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water

> > > > > bodies,

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the

> > > best

> > > > > spam

> > > > > > > > > > protection

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> <>

> > > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> < <>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

> <>

> > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> < <>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> < <>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-

> > date.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > have

> > > > been

> > > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > 268.12.2/441 -

> > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > 268.12.2/442 -

> > > >

> > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version

> > is

> > > > > > > radically

> > > > > > > > > > easier

> > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 -

> >

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ________

> > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC

> > > calling

> > > > > > > > worldwide

> > > > > > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger.

> <http://uk.messenger.>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> ------

>

> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release 9/20/2006

>

September 21, 2006

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Thanks for the guidance.I trust your words - Knowledge will come if

one seeks with sincerity.

Respect

Pradeep

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

> You have explained it right.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lakshmi ji

> >

> > As promised please find my understanding.Pure Bodha or

Consciousness

> > is NON Dual.

> >

> > Now -

> >

> > 1)Why is Mukthi or liberation needed? 2)Is somebody trapped? 3)

If yes

> > who is this ''party -misconcept'' needing liberation 4)Where is

the

> > same trapped 5)What is the effect of this trap?

> >

> > Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

> > entity ,resulting in Duality.Objects in Prakrithi and similarly

every

> > body can be treated as ''Mirrors''.It is the same bodha, but,

falling

> > on different mirrors.Hence it is called Reflection.Since bodha is

> > having chetana it can enliven the body through the inherent

> > Shakthi.From thereon we call him jeevatma and is the provider of

> > necessary life force for executing Karmas.Interestingly it is

these

> > very Karmas that sustains the trap!!.

> >

> > It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all

karma

> > bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

> > Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody

else.Mind,Indiryas and

> > Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling.Maya is at the will of

HIM.As

> > long as jivatma follows the mind(means unaware of its real

nature and

> > identifying itself with mental perceptions)there is a seperate

> > identity.This false feeling of jivatma is Aham.Detachment is

about

> > stopping this ''i follow you'' business.As Chandrashekhar ji has

said

> > moving away and observing the mind,in a detached fashion will

solve

> > all the puzzles.Atma is the only party capable of taming the

mind -if

> > and only if it understands that ''i'' am not ''mind,this body or

> > name''.Beginning of spiritual learning is this

knowledge.Realization

> > is TOTAL merger.

> > When we ask who am i,who am i,whom am i - where do we reach?.It

was

> > ofcourse the dual feeling(i) for the undivided part of the NON

dUAL!!!

> >

> > This Jeevatma is not Rahu.I feel now it is clear why AtmaKaraka

is the

> > Karaka for Self.I request Chandrashekhar ji to correct me.Rahu is

> > neither the Pride.Pride is always for the self because of

> > attachments,false identification,ignorance.Rahu is that

intoxicating

> > agent,which makes us attached to Vishayas and Sukhas or in other

words

> > earthly attachment.

> > It is not a small role as you say.It is acting as a

> > catalyst(intoxication) for Karma bandhas which is necessary for

> > learning.Initially we started the discussion with pride as Rahu

and

> > now you have safely anchored on to ego as in ''seperate identity

and

> > giving Rahu a bigger role:-).Rahu is not ''Í'''.It is also the

> > reversing agent.Why Simha rashi has nature ''Garvadhikya''

should also

> > be clear.Surya is the subtle core,but jivatma has false

conceptions

> > until realization.

> >

> > Now would you think Vistiji may correct his article.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > >

> > > I also miss a lot of mails quite often, so it doesn't surprise

me.

> > >

> > > Coming to the comment about "grey area"...well it's supposed

to make

> > > you laugh, and i myself was laughing when i wrote it:--))

Infact, i

> > > am hardly ever serious in life and you can find me laughing at

the

> > > drop of a hat!

> > >

> > > As i said in my other mail, I will await your feedback and the

> > > possible corrections you may suggest in my

approach/understanding.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > <%40>, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > >

> > > > Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

> > > > mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss

this:)).

> > > >

> > > > Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

> > > > is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am

able to

> > > > explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is

aham is

> > > > well explained in your mail.

> > > >

> > > > But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it

is a

> > > > GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

> > > >

> > > > As i have said before, Rahu is considered as

a ''VazhiChenda''(a

> > > > road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean

all

> > > bad

> > > > things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning

of Mada

> > > > in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

> > > > Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article

if he

> > > > wish.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent,

quite

> > > > recent

> > > > > (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham"

and

> > > > hope

> > > > > for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and

Prafulla

> > > > ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives

rise

> > > to

> > > > > actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the

Chandala

> > > > said

> > > > > to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it

> > > soul,

> > > > > but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body

nor the

> > > > > soul.

> > > > >

> > > > > "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which

> > > basis

> > > > it

> > > > > is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For

example, to

> > > > name

> > > > > a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni

has the

> > > > > ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These

basic

> > > > > abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> > > > > distinctive/individual identity (aham).

> > > > >

> > > > > Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

> > > > certain

> > > > > species which set them apart from others. So is the case

with

> > > > > animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the

> > > creation,

> > > > > which is slotted into various categories, though it's all

> > > emanated

> > > > > from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa

jnaanam.

> > > > >

> > > > > Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> > > > > different organs of the body too. They all have their

appointed

> > > > > abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has

the

> > > > > ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the

body,

> > > > while

> > > > > legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can

do the

> > > > > other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

> > > > >

> > > > > If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego

because

> > > it

> > > > > has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the

body, is

> > > it

> > > > > correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to

control

> > > > the

> > > > > processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will

the

> > > body

> > > > > be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--

))

> > > > >

> > > > > God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity

(ego),

> > > > and

> > > > > how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta),

> > > which

> > > > is

> > > > > a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different

species

> > > > are

> > > > > able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

> > > > >

> > > > > But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul,

and

> > > > mistake

> > > > > this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the

> > > problems

> > > > > crop up, and as you said, various attachments /

aberrations seep

> > > > in.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push

it

> > > down

> > > > > (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly

pierce

> > > the

> > > > > eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that

he's

> > > in

> > > > > the true sense "Trivikrama"!

> > > > >

> > > > > Rahu represents this "aham" because

> > > > >

> > > > > 1)it's a grey area:--))

> > > > >

> > > > > 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently

in

> > > > > different beings, according to their species/categories.

> > > Similarly

> > > > > Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house

lords/conjoined

> > > > > planets, and gives different results.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!)

which

> > > > > represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at

least

> > > > > some sense:--))

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -

> > > nothing

> > > > > > belongs

> > > > > > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present,

there is a

> > > > > > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is

called

> > > EGO

> > > > or

> > > > > > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For

example

> > > a

> > > > > King

> > > > > > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth

etc

> > > > > > resulting in

> > > > > > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for

> > > Atman.Though

> > > > > > Atman is

> > > > > > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

> > > > purpose

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided

but

> > > part

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > > > > > superimposition

> > > > > > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

> > > > Sankara.The

> > > > > > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first

entry

> > > as

> > > > > far

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by

mind.Atma

> > > as

> > > > > well

> > > > > > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual

feeling

> > > of

> > > > > > > me/mine is ''í''.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have

Death

> > > > and

> > > > > > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact

> > > between

> > > > > > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth)

making us

> > > > > clutch

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

> > > > enhancing

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just

> > > keeping

> > > > > > > together the already manifested superimposition

> > > (Atma/Mind).The

> > > > > > level

> > > > > > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology

the

> > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > > moon and further associations.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus

does

> > > > not

> > > > > > make

> > > > > > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage

(not

> > > > > because

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before

> > > realization

> > > > > nor

> > > > > > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma

identifies

> > > > > itself

> > > > > > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or

in

> > > > other

> > > > > > words

> > > > > > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should

> > > think

> > > > of

> > > > > > feet

> > > > > > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

> > > > EGO ,what

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please

tell me

> > > > what

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated

> > > illusion

> > > > > in

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > context?.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to

maya

> > > > (which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him

(but

> > > part

> > > > of

> > > > > > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

> > > > catalyst

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is

still

> > > (if

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun

brahman.Kind of

> > > > > > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he

is.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise

space is

> > > > > created

> > > > > > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into

picture).Brahman

> > > and

> > > > > > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the

mail to

> > > > > > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in

interpreting

> > > > > > that "ego" is

> > > > > > > > found only in some people. If we interpret

> > > dispassionately,

> > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that

ego (

> > > > > > necessary

> > > > > > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every

being,

> > > as

> > > > > much

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I

don't find

> > > > us

> > > > > > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have

ego,

> > > you

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it,

perhaps

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > different degrees.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only

to

> > > some

> > > > > > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> > > > > exceptions! "Ego"

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like

the

> > > > > > kundalini

> > > > > > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> > > > > dissolving

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach

a

> > > state

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Realization.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet

exhilerating

> > > > > > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma

included

> > > > > > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of

the

> > > > above

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > result

> > > > > > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

> > > > reference

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> > > > > certified

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > impeccable.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that

Saturn

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not

recall

> > > > > > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find

it,

> > > > please

> > > > > > let

> > > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > know.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do

not

> > > say

> > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they

explicitly

> > > > > said

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not

drawing

> > > > > > > > convoluted

> > > > > > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump

it when

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > doesn't?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing

> > > either

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I

said that

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when

involved

> > > in

> > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all

these

> > > days

> > > > > is

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> > > > > context.Why

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > > > > > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the

generator

> > > > of "I"-

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > false

> > > > > > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis

of ego

> > > > (as

> > > > > > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This

> > > feeling

> > > > is

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

> > > > individual

> > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > different from other.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong?

Once he

> > > > > enters

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind

is

> > > > > > > > taking ,until

> > > > > > > > > self

> > > > > > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham

mentioning

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a

feeling

> > > > > > of ''I''.It

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can

you

> > > > tell

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual

lordship

> > > by

> > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of

karma

> > > > > (Saturn)

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If

birth

> > > > takes

> > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or

feel

> > > > > trapped

> > > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents

Time?

> > > > Does

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's

because

> > > > he

> > > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous

e-

> > > > > > mails, "ego"

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you

yourself

> > > have

> > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion

surrounding us

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> > > > > together,

> > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

> > > > illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > > > > > idea

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> > > > > understand

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I

have

> > > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

> > > > bringing

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present

discussion:-

> > > -

> > > > ))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails,

that the

> > > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada"

imply

> > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication"

> > > belong

> > > > in

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

> > > > perhaps

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > missed

> > > > > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not

Mada

> > > > does

> > > > > > mean

> > > > > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to

relates to

> > > > > kaamana

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That

is

> > > what

> > > > > > Asteya,

> > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other

wise

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures

can

> > > be

> > > > > > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not

serve any

> > > > > > purpose. I

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and

Avidya

> > > > > > related to

> > > > > > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a

shloka,

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is

inauspicious

> > > > and

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have

already

> > > > posted

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > way

> > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an

argument,

> > > so

> > > > I

> > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and

would

> > > like

> > > > to

> > > > > > quote

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of

dormant

> > > > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not

have to

> > > > > > translate

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k...{flI devta

> > > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé

devatä

> > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

> > > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä

trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

> > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

> > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta

k...lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä

> > > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to

support your

> > > > > > > > contention.

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against

conjectures, so

> > > > > that

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of

Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support

your

> > > > > > > > propositions

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt

you

> > > by

> > > > > > pointing

> > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya

and

> > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations

only.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you

and if

> > > I

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha

(anger),

> > > > > lobha

> > > > > > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and

> > > maatsarya

> > > > > > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama"

imply

> > > > among

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > > > > > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya

swaroopini"

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes

understanding of

> > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which

can be

> > > > > routed

> > > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends

the

> > > > same?

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to

good use,

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and

Parvati,

> > > > wisdom

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures

the

> > > > > > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of

Shakti

> > > is

> > > > > very

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik

and

> > > > krura.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can

give

> > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so.

You

> > > can

> > > > > > refer to

> > > > > > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than

winning

> > > or

> > > > > > losing an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as

an

> > > > > > exploration

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the

case,

> > > I

> > > > > see

> > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early

age

> > > are

> > > > > > > > operating

> > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did

not

> > > die

> > > > > > young.

> > > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

> > > > Swamiji's

> > > > > > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times

despite of

> > > > > > apparent

> > > > > > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's

chart

> > > > > confirms

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I

did not

> > > > > know

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if

there

> > > is

> > > > a

> > > > > > Kuja

> > > > > > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife?

Please do

> > > not

> > > > > > bring

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the

discussions

> > > are

> > > > on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no

where. The

> > > > two

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time

an

> > > event

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart

you

> > > have

> > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu

deha in

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way

you read

> > > > my

> > > > > > mail,

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for

him, only

> > > > > that

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being

Atma and

> > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on

the

> > > > topic,

> > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > > > > > Vivekananda's

> > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and

causing a

> > > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > > Raj

> > > > > > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji

> > > lived,

> > > > > you

> > > > > > may

> > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

> > > > Mahakrura.

> > > > > > Think

> > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also,

before

> > > > > > declaring

> > > > > > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an

icchamrityu

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe

that

> > > he

> > > > > > passed

> > > > > > > > > away in

> > > > > > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-

02-10

> > > > > > (3:59:13

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) -

1903-08-

> > > 27

> > > > > > (4:48:54

> > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-

09-12

> > > > > > (10:43:55

> > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-

07-07

> > > > > > (5:06:28

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) -

1902-07-

> > > 06

> > > > > > (2:29:24

> > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-

05

> > > > > (1:27:03

> > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon,

Venus is

> > > > the

> > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu

is in

> > > > the

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn

is the

> > > > 2nd

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his

early

> > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all

this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK

aspecting

> > > 7th

> > > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you

ignore the

> > > > > > influence

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the

10th

> > > > house?

> > > > > I

> > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja

yoga:--))

> > > > but

> > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact

he

> > > > created

> > > > > > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened

to the

> > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars

in

> > > the

> > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I

think

> > > the

> > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita.

You have

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > > commented

> > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the

bhava

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already

> > > stated

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to

> > > great

> > > > > > people,

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or

otherwise of

> > > > what

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > > Did

> > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a

malignant

> > > > > > sarcoma

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > left

> > > > > > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th

in his

> > > > > chart,

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent

results?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to

examine

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is

the 3rd

> > > > lord

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's

chart,

> > > > rahu

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's

effects...all

> > > of

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th

house

> > > and

> > > > > > ketu

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's

effect,

> > > if

> > > > > at

> > > > > > all,

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-

02-03

> > > > > > (2:05:32

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-

02-21

> > > > > > (8:49:14

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-

05-18

> > > > > > (12:04:47

> > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-

04-20

> > > > > > (12:18:02

> > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) -

1950-04-

> > > 14

> > > > > > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-

04-14

> > > > > > (12:47:04

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact

that the

> > > > > dasa

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I

think

> > > > > their

> > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa

totally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider

the

> > > > above

> > > > > > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other

charts/issues in

> > > > my

> > > > > > next

> > > > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars

strong

> > > as

> > > > a

> > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility

even

> > > when

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam

shane

> > > > > smritam

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not

considered

> > > > > > Mars/Venus

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated.

Please

> > > go

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and

Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary

background and

> > > > that

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for

its

> > > soft

> > > > > > language.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics

> > > giving

> > > > > > P.M.

> > > > > > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M.

Yoga

> > > > > > attributed

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to

imagine

> > > > they

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or

all

> > > > with

> > > > > > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts

of

> > > > India

> > > > > > > > (barring

> > > > > > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages

gave

> > > us

> > > > > > > > principles

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope

using

> > > > > > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka

giving

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an

old

> > > > > classic

> > > > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem

to

> > > > accept

> > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by

Dr.

> > > > Raman,

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the

> > > shloka

> > > > I

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with

Shri

> > > B.V.

> > > > > > Raman

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give

good

> > > > > results,

> > > > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

> > > > disagree

> > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

> > > > contrary

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples,

where I

> > > > find

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives

krura nor

> > > > that

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in

lagna

> > > and

> > > > > > mars in

> > > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd

house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars

in

> > > > lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in

8th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa:

Exalted

> > > Saturn

> > > > > > (9H)

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi,

> > > while

> > > > > > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > > > > > for "vipareetam

> > > > > > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to

> > > Saturn's

> > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong

Saturn

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the

saying is

> > > > > > because i

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

> > > > 40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the

saying is,

> > > > > that

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-

krura) and

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > shubha

> > > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura

when weak

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH

smritam".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I

was 9

> > > > > years

> > > > > > > > old,

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you

didn't

> > > > > notice

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the

> > > > difference

> > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that

Rahu

> > > is

> > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally

good,

> > > > then

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart

> > > because

> > > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when

weak,

> > > > give

> > > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while

strong

> > > > > planets,

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were

weak, he

> > > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly

> > > > combust

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > inferior

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major

results of

> > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because

according

> > > > > to "300

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher

> > > > shadbala

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request

you

> > > to

> > > > > read

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he

died,

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > nature

> > > > > > > > > bowed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest

persons

> > > in

> > > > > > > > > Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because

> > > > Parashurama

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > teach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to

> > > learn

> > > > > > > > > dhanurvidya

> > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support

Duryodhana.

> > > > > Deceit

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But

it's

> > > to

> > > > be

> > > > > > borne

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to

please

> > > > > > Duryodhana,

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything

personally.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd

house from

> > > > 8th

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the

natural

> > > > zodiac,

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > > th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign,

represents

> > > > > > > > > south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama,

the

> > > lord

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > death,

> > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds.

So,

> > > the

> > > > > > Rudras

> > > > > > > > > > > (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun

> > > resides

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > south

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here.

So he

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > digbala

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I

> > > referred

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as

antaraatma

> > > > and

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the

> > > > subject.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > <%

40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for

the

> > > > results

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your

father

> > > > had

> > > > > > > > > promotions

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during

that

> > > > time.

> > > > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young

age

> > > of

> > > > 9

> > > > > or

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved

you

> > > did

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about

Rahu

> > > > and

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by

conjunction,

> > > as

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > guessed but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a

> > > Dharmakarmaadhipati

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > > all)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its

> > > dasha

> > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not

because

> > > I

> > > > > say

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when

> > > conjunct

> > > > a

> > > > > > papa

> > > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of

> > > Artha

> > > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money.

Though

> > > > > > claimed to

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana

(8th)

> > > > and

> > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > home

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th

is

> > > more

> > > > > > > > popularly

> > > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana.

If it

> > > > is

> > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why

would Sun

> > > > be

> > > > > at

> > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not

> > > > represent

> > > > > > water

> > > > > > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar

ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was

excellent

> > > too.

> > > > > My

> > > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days

were

> > > great

> > > > > and

> > > > > > i

> > > > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in

creative

> > > > > > writing,

> > > > > > > > > Veena,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a

> > > > student,

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > guess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify

this, if

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > weak?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka

results, but

> > > > > being

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think

Rahu is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is

malefic

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > heavily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also

represent

> > > burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a

place

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all

water

> > > > > > bodies,

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has

the

> > > > best

> > > > > > spam

> > > > > > > > > > > protection

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <>

> > > > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > < <>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > < <>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

> > <>

> > > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > < <>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > < <>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------

------

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > --

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-

of-

> > > date.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus

Database:

> > > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

message

> > > have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --

------

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > --

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming

message.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > > 268.12.2/441 -

> > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

have

> > > been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------

------

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > --

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming

message.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > 268.12.2/442 -

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New

Version

> > > is

> > > > > > > > radically

> > > > > > > > > > > easier

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to use" -- The Wall Street Journal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------

------

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > --

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

268.12.2/442 -

> > >

> > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

________

> > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC

> > > > calling

> > > > > > > > > worldwide

> > > > > > > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger.

> > <http://uk.messenger.>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > --------------------------------

-------

> >

> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.6/453 - Release

9/20/2006

> >

>

September 22, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Pradeep,

Thanks for your mail and i can see that you've honestly tried to

understand the nature of Jeevatma. I really appreciate your effort.

I am also a novice in this field:--)) Bharat ji is the real expert

here, and I am very happy he has joined the discussions and has

given us the benefit of his objective guidance.

> As promised please find my understanding.Pure Bodha or

Consciousness

> is NON Dual.

Lakshmi: Like the Sun, right?

>

> Now -

>

> 1)Why is Mukthi or liberation needed? 2)Is somebody trapped? 3)If

yes

> who is this ''party -misconcept'' needing liberation 4)Where is

the

> same trapped 5)What is the effect of this trap?

>

> Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

> entity ,resulting in Duality.Objects in Prakrithi and similarly

every

> body can be treated as ''Mirrors''.It is the same bodha, but,

falling

> on different mirrors.Hence it is called Reflection.Since bodha is

> having chetana it can enliven the body through the inherent

> Shakthi.From thereon we call him jeevatma and is the provider of

> necessary life force for executing Karmas.Interestingly it is these

> very Karmas that sustains the trap!!.

>

Lakshmi: In the morning Sun Light (soul), enters through the window

(brahma randhra), it lights up the room(body) , and brings it into

manifestation. At the time of Sunset, the light leaves the room,

turning it back to darkness (death).

Now, is that light trapped in the room? Is it unable to leave when

it wishes to? Even if you close all windows, can anyone prevent

it's leaving?

Suppose there are a number of rooms, each one of different sizes,

shapes (beings), equipped with different/appropriate furnishings

(abilities) etc. When sunlight enters these rooms, they all light

up and become manifested.

Now, why are the rooms different? What made them different? The

Sunlight merely lights up/manifests these rooms, and the things

within them. Do the furnishings, curtains etc belong to the rooms

or to the Sunlight? Do they make any difference to the Sunlight?

Even if there were no rooms, it would not make any difference to Sun.

Soul/Shiva/Sun is actionless and motionless (sthanuH) and sits in

Sahasraara. He animates everything just by His presence. Where's

the feeling of "being trapped" for something that's essentially

unmoving and unfeeling?

On the contrary, "being trapped" makes a difference to a moving and

feeling entity in our body. Moon/Shakti is the cause of chetana in

all beings/actions and being an upama shakti, it is reminiscent of

Soul. That's why Moon is treated as a surrogate ascendant in

astrology.

In Kundalini analogy also, it's the shakti that moves and undergoes

a change, Shiva does neither move nor undergo a change. It's shakti

that feels trapped and longs for mukti and escape into Brahman.

Basically all beings are shakti/prakriti and Brahman is the only

Purusha.

The application of shakti in different things is different. As the

same electricity can run the TV, sterio, rice cooker, bread toaster,

computer to output different results, shakti can cause action in

all, depending on their respective capabilities.

We have already seen that the abilities are part of the body and not

of the soul. This body and its abilities are fashioned according to

one's previous karma….Saturn/Rahu!! Saturn, being the "bodied"

planet :--)) and a representative of Brahma, gives the body/physical

abilities, while ephemeral Rahu gives the atmosphere surrounding the

body.... an awareness of one's body and its abilities. Ego!

Howzzat! :--))

> It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all

karma

> bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

> Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody else.Mind,Indiryas

and

Ø Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling.

Lakshmi: It's the mind/shakti that journies. Sun neither waxes nor

wanes. Sun does not revolve/follow around prithvi/moon. It's the

otherway round. Moon /shakti is a satellite of prithvi , but also is

capable of reflecting the light of Sun. So the duality belongs to

the Moon. The mind in its own place…… The Moon represents jala

tattwa, so downward motion is more natural towards "aham"

represented by Rahu, while Ketu represents "shivam" or the upward

direction, which is anti-gravity and more difficult to achieve.

Just one second. When someone is in Samadhi, the mind is merged with

soul, but the soul (atma) is very much present in the body (if not,

the body dies). If soul is to represent "aham", why doesn't a yogi

in samadhi have awareness of himself as a separate entity?

Btw, I was mistaken earlier about the definition of "aham" and am

genuinely trying to correct myself. I have publicly/honestly

admitted it, and yes, I am more safely anchored in "Self" now.

Something wrong in that?

Please reflect on this. The rest I will attempt tomorrow. Have to

teach my younger son for his quarterly exams:--))

Regards,

Lakshmi

>

> , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > I also miss a lot of mails quite often, so it doesn't surprise

me.

> >

> > Coming to the comment about "grey area"...well it's supposed to

make

> > you laugh, and i myself was laughing when i wrote it:--))Infact,

i

> > am hardly ever serious in life and you can find me laughing at

the

> > drop of a hat!

> >

> > As i said in my other mail, I will await your feedback and the

> > possible corrections you may suggest in my

approach/understanding.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > >

> > > Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

> > > mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss

this:)).

> > >

> > > Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

> > > is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am

able to

> > > explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is aham

is

> > > well explained in your mail.

> > >

> > > But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it is

a

> > > GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

> > >

> > > As i have said before, Rahu is considered as

a ''VazhiChenda''(a

> > > road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean

all

> > bad

> > > things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning of

Mada

> > > in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

> > > Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article

if he

> > > wish.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent, quite

> > > recent

> > > > (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham"

and

> > > hope

> > > > for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and

Prafulla

> > > ji.

> > > >

> > > > As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives

rise

> > to

> > > > actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the

Chandala

> > > said

> > > > to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it

> > soul,

> > > > but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body nor

the

> > > > soul.

> > > >

> > > > "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which

> > basis

> > > it

> > > > is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For example,

to

> > > name

> > > > a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni has

the

> > > > ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These

basic

> > > > abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> > > > distinctive/individual identity (aham).

> > > >

> > > > Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

> > > certain

> > > > species which set them apart from others. So is the case

with

> > > > animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the

> > creation,

> > > > which is slotted into various categories, though it's all

> > emanated

> > > > from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa

jnaanam.

> > > >

> > > > Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> > > > different organs of the body too. They all have their

appointed

> > > > abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has

the

> > > > ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the

body,

> > > while

> > > > legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can do

the

> > > > other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

> > > >

> > > > If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego

because

> > it

> > > > has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the body,

is

> > it

> > > > correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to

control

> > > the

> > > > processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will

the

> > body

> > > > be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--))

> > > >

> > > > God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity

(ego),

> > > and

> > > > how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta),

> > which

> > > is

> > > > a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different

species

> > > are

> > > > able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

> > > >

> > > > But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul, and

> > > mistake

> > > > this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the

> > problems

> > > > crop up, and as you said, various attachments / aberrations

seep

> > > in.

> > > >

> > > > Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push it

> > down

> > > > (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly

pierce

> > the

> > > > eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that

he's

> > in

> > > > the true sense "Trivikrama"!

> > > >

> > > > Rahu represents this "aham" because

> > > >

> > > > 1)it's a grey area:--))

> > > >

> > > > 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently

in

> > > > different beings, according to their species/categories.

> > Similarly

> > > > Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house

lords/conjoined

> > > > planets, and gives different results.

> > > >

> > > > 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!)

which

> > > > represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at

least

> > > > some sense:--))

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -

> > nothing

> > > > > belongs

> > > > > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present, there

is a

> > > > > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is

called

> > EGO

> > > or

> > > > > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For

example

> > a

> > > > King

> > > > > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth

etc

> > > > > resulting in

> > > > > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for

> > Atman.Though

> > > > > Atman is

> > > > > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

> > > purpose

> > > > of

> > > > > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided

but

> > part

> > > of

> > > > > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > > > > superimposition

> > > > > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

> > > Sankara.The

> > > > > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first

entry

> > as

> > > > far

> > > > > as

> > > > > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by

mind.Atma

> > as

> > > > well

> > > > > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual

feeling

> > of

> > > > > > me/mine is ''í''.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have

Death

> > > and

> > > > > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact

> > between

> > > > > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth) making

us

> > > > clutch

> > > > > on

> > > > > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> > > > intoxication

> > > > > is

> > > > > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

> > > enhancing

> > > > > the

> > > > > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just

> > keeping

> > > > > > together the already manifested superimposition

> > (Atma/Mind).The

> > > > > level

> > > > > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology

the

> > > > > strength of

> > > > > > moon and further associations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus

does

> > > not

> > > > > make

> > > > > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage

(not

> > > > because

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before

> > realization

> > > > nor

> > > > > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma

identifies

> > > > itself

> > > > > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or

in

> > > other

> > > > > words

> > > > > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should

> > think

> > > of

> > > > > feet

> > > > > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

> > > EGO ,what

> > > > is

> > > > > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please tell

me

> > > what

> > > > is

> > > > > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated

> > illusion

> > > > in

> > > > > our

> > > > > > context?.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to

maya

> > > (which

> > > > is

> > > > > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him

(but

> > part

> > > of

> > > > > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

> > > catalyst

> > > > or

> > > > > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is

still

> > (if

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun

brahman.Kind of

> > > > > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise space

is

> > > > created

> > > > > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into

picture).Brahman

> > and

> > > > > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > > > > understanding

> > > > > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail

to

> > > > > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting

> > > > > that "ego" is

> > > > > > > found only in some people. If we interpret

> > dispassionately,

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that

ego (

> > > > > necessary

> > > > > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every

being,

> > as

> > > > much

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't

find

> > > us

> > > > > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have

ego,

> > you

> > > > have

> > > > > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it,

perhaps

> > > in

> > > > > > > different degrees.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only

to

> > some

> > > > > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> > > > exceptions! "Ego"

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like

the

> > > > > kundalini

> > > > > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> > > > dissolving

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a

> > state

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Realization.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet

exhilerating

> > > > > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included

> > > > > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of

the

> > > above

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > result

> > > > > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

> > > reference

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> > > > certified

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > impeccable.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that

Saturn

> > > > gives

> > > > > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not

recall

> > > > > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find

it,

> > > please

> > > > > let

> > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > know.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do

not

> > say

> > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they

explicitly

> > > > said

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not

drawing

> > > > > > > convoluted

> > > > > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it

when

> > > it

> > > > > > > doesn't?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing

> > either

> > > > Sun

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said

that

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when

involved

> > in

> > > > > such

> > > > > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all

these

> > days

> > > > is

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> > > > context.Why

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > > > > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator

> > > of "I"-

> > > > a

> > > > > > > false

> > > > > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of

ego

> > > (as

> > > > > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This

> > feeling

> > > is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

> > > individual

> > > > > being

> > > > > > > > different from other.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once

he

> > > > enters

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind

is

> > > > > > > taking ,until

> > > > > > > > self

> > > > > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham

mentioning

> > > > about

> > > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling

> > > > > of ''I''.It

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can

you

> > > tell

> > > > me

> > > > > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual

lordship

> > by

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of

karma

> > > > (Saturn)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If

birth

> > > takes

> > > > > place

> > > > > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or

feel

> > > > trapped

> > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents

Time?

> > > Does

> > > > he

> > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's

because

> > > he

> > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-

> > > > > mails, "ego"

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself

> > have

> > > > said

> > > > > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding

us

> > > > giving

> > > > > us

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> > > > together,

> > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

> > > illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > > > > idea

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> > > > understand

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I

have

> > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

> > > bringing

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present

discussion:-

> > -

> > > ))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that

the

> > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada"

imply

> > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication"

> > belong

> > > in

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

> > > perhaps

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > > missed

> > > > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not

Mada

> > > does

> > > > > mean

> > > > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates

to

> > > > kaamana

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That

is

> > what

> > > > > Asteya,

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other

wise

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures

can

> > be

> > > > > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve

any

> > > > > purpose. I

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and

Avidya

> > > > > related to

> > > > > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a

shloka,

> > > to

> > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is

inauspicious

> > > and

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already

> > > posted

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > way

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an

argument,

> > so

> > > I

> > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would

> > like

> > > to

> > > > > quote

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of

dormant

> > > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not

have to

> > > > > translate

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta

> > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé

devatä

> > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

> > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

> > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

> > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä

> > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support

your

> > > > > > > contention.

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against

conjectures, so

> > > > that

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support

your

> > > > > > > propositions

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt

you

> > by

> > > > > pointing

> > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and

> > Rahu

> > > > > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you

and if

> > I

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha

(anger),

> > > > lobha

> > > > > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and

> > maatsarya

> > > > > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama"

imply

> > > among

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > > > > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya

swaroopini"

> > > and

> > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes

understanding of

> > > > both

> > > > > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can

be

> > > > routed

> > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends

the

> > > same?

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good

use,

> > > is

> > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati,

> > > wisdom

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the

> > > > > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of

Shakti

> > is

> > > > very

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik

and

> > > krura.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can

give

> > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so.

You

> > can

> > > > > refer to

> > > > > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than

winning

> > or

> > > > > losing an

> > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an

> > > > > exploration

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the

case,

> > I

> > > > see

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early

age

> > are

> > > > > > > operating

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did

not

> > die

> > > > > young.

> > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

> > > Swamiji's

> > > > > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite

of

> > > > > apparent

> > > > > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's

chart

> > > > confirms

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did

not

> > > > know

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if

there

> > is

> > > a

> > > > > Kuja

> > > > > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please

do

> > not

> > > > > bring

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the

discussions

> > are

> > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where.

The

> > > two

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an

> > event

> > > > but

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart

you

> > have

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu

deha in

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you

read

> > > my

> > > > > mail,

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him,

only

> > > > that

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma

and

> > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on

the

> > > topic,

> > > > > did

> > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > > > > Vivekananda's

> > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and

causing a

> > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > Raj

> > > > > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji

> > lived,

> > > > you

> > > > > may

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

> > > Mahakrura.

> > > > > Think

> > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also,

before

> > > > > declaring

> > > > > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an

icchamrityu

> > > and

> > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe

that

> > he

> > > > > passed

> > > > > > > > away in

> > > > > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-

02-10

> > > > > (3:59:13

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-

08-

> > 27

> > > > > (4:48:54

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-

09-12

> > > > > (10:43:55

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-

07-07

> > > > > (5:06:28

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-

07-

> > 06

> > > > > (2:29:24

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-

05

> > > > (1:27:03

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus

is

> > > the

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu

is in

> > > the

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is

the

> > > 2nd

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > > > > significations

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his

early

> > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all

this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK

aspecting

> > 7th

> > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore

the

> > > > > influence

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th

> > > house?

> > > > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:-

-))

> > > but

> > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he

> > > created

> > > > > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to

the

> > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars

in

> > the

> > > > 7th

> > > > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I

think

> > the

> > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You

have

> > > not

> > > > > > > > commented

> > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the

bhava

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already

> > stated

> > > in

> > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to

> > great

> > > > > people,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise

of

> > > what

> > > > I

> > > > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > Did

> > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a

malignant

> > > > > sarcoma

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > left

> > > > > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in

his

> > > > chart,

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to

examine

> > > the

> > > > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the

3rd

> > > lord

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's

chart,

> > > rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's

effects...all

> > of

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th

house

> > and

> > > > > ketu

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's

effect,

> > if

> > > > at

> > > > > all,

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-

02-03

> > > > > (2:05:32

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-

02-21

> > > > > (8:49:14

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-

05-18

> > > > > (12:04:47

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-

04-20

> > > > > (12:18:02

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-

04-

> > 14

> > > > > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-

14

> > > > > (12:47:04

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that

the

> > > > dasa

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I

think

> > > > their

> > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa

totally

> > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider

the

> > > above

> > > > > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other

charts/issues in

> > > my

> > > > > next

> > > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars

strong

> > as

> > > a

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility

even

> > when

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam

shane

> > > > smritam

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not

considered

> > > > > Mars/Venus

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated.

Please

> > go

> > > > > through

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and

Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background

and

> > > that

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its

> > soft

> > > > > language.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics

> > giving

> > > > > P.M.

> > > > > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M.

Yoga

> > > > > attributed

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to

imagine

> > > they

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or

all

> > > with

> > > > > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts

of

> > > India

> > > > > > > (barring

> > > > > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages

gave

> > us

> > > > > > > principles

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope

using

> > > > > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka

giving

> > > the

> > > > > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an

old

> > > > classic

> > > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to

> > > accept

> > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by

Dr.

> > > Raman,

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the

> > shloka

> > > I

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri

> > B.V.

> > > > > Raman

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give

good

> > > > results,

> > > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

> > > disagree

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

> > > contrary

> > > > to

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where

I

> > > find

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura

nor

> > > that

> > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in

lagna

> > and

> > > > > mars in

> > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd

house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars

in

> > > lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th

house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted

> > Saturn

> > > > > (9H)

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi,

> > while

> > > > > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > > > > for "vipareetam

> > > > > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to

> > Saturn's

> > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong

Saturn

> > > > gives

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the

saying is

> > > > > because i

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

> > > 40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying

is,

> > > > that

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura)

and

> > > the

> > > > > > > shubha

> > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when

weak

> > > and

> > > > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH

smritam".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I

was 9

> > > > years

> > > > > > > old,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you

didn't

> > > > notice

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the

> > > difference

> > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that

Rahu

> > is

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally

good,

> > > then

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart

> > because

> > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when

weak,

> > > give

> > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong

> > > > planets,

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were

weak, he

> > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly

> > > combust

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > inferior

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results

of

> > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because

according

> > > > to "300

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher

> > > shadbala

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request

you

> > to

> > > > read

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he

died,

> > > the

> > > > > > > nature

> > > > > > > > bowed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest

persons

> > in

> > > > > > > > Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because

> > > Parashurama

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > teach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to

> > learn

> > > > > > > > dhanurvidya

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support

Duryodhana.

> > > > Deceit

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But

it's

> > to

> > > be

> > > > > borne

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please

> > > > > Duryodhana,

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything

personally.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house

from

> > > 8th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural

> > > zodiac,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign,

represents

> > > > > > > > south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the

> > lord

> > > of

> > > > > > > death,

> > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds.

So,

> > the

> > > > > Rudras

> > > > > > > > > > (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun

> > resides

> > > > in

> > > > > > > south

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here.

So he

> > > has

> > > > > > > digbala

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I

> > referred

> > > > to

> > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as

antaraatma

> > > and

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the

> > > subject.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the

> > > results

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your

father

> > > had

> > > > > > > > promotions

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during

that

> > > time.

> > > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young

age

> > of

> > > 9

> > > > or

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved

you

> > did

> > > > not

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about

Rahu

> > > and

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by

conjunction,

> > as

> > > > you

> > > > > > > > guessed but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a

> > Dharmakarmaadhipati

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > all)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its

> > dasha

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not

because

> > I

> > > > say

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when

> > conjunct

> > > a

> > > > > papa

> > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of

> > Artha

> > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money.

Though

> > > > > claimed to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana

(8th)

> > > and

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > home

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is

> > more

> > > > > > > popularly

> > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana.

If it

> > > is

> > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would

Sun

> > > be

> > > > at

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not

> > > represent

> > > > > water

> > > > > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was

excellent

> > too.

> > > > My

> > > > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were

> > great

> > > > and

> > > > > i

> > > > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in

creative

> > > > > writing,

> > > > > > > > Veena,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a

> > > student,

> > > > I

> > > > > > > guess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this,

if

> > > Sun

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > weak?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results,

but

> > > > being

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think

Rahu is

> > > > also

> > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is

malefic

> > > and

> > > > > > > heavily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent

> > burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a

place

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all

water

> > > > > bodies,

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has

the

> > > best

> > > > > spam

> > > > > > > > > > protection

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > <>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

> > <>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

> > > > <>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

> > <>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

----

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-

of-

> > date.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus

Database:

> > > > > > > 268.11.7/435 -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > have

> > > > been

> > > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----

----

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming

message.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > 268.12.2/441 -

> > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

have

> > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------

----

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > 268.12.2/442 -

> > > >

> > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

________

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New

Version

> > is

> > > > > > > radically

> > > > > > > > > > easier

> > > > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal

> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

----

> > --

> > > --

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

268.12.2/442 -

> >

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

_________

> > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC

> > > calling

> > > > > > > > worldwide

> > > > > > > > > > with voicemail http://uk.messenger.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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