Humility & learning lessons of life/Lakshmi ji -Grey Area

September 20, 2006

Dear Lakshmi ji

Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss this:)).

Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am able to

explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is aham is

well explained in your mail.

But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it is a

GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

As i have said before, Rahu is considered as a ''VazhiChenda''(a

road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean all bad

things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning of Mada

in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article if he

wish.

Regds

Pradeep

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Pradeep,

>

> As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent, quite

recent

> (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham" and

hope

> for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and Prafulla

ji.

>

> As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives rise to

> actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the Chandala

said

> to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it soul,

> but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body nor the

> soul.

>

> "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which basis

it

> is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For example, to

name

> a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni has the

> ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These basic

> abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> distinctive/individual identity (aham).

>

> Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

certain

> species which set them apart from others. So is the case with

> animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the creation,

> which is slotted into various categories, though it's all emanated

> from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa jnaanam.

>

> Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> different organs of the body too. They all have their appointed

> abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has the

> ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the body,

while

> legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can do the

> other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

>

> If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego because it

> has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the body, is it

> correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to control

the

> processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will the body

> be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--))

>

> God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity (ego),

and

> how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta), which

is

> a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different species

are

> able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

>

> But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul, and

mistake

> this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the problems

> crop up, and as you said, various attachments / aberrations seep

in.

>

> Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push it down

> (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly pierce the

> eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that he's in

> the true sense "Trivikrama"!

>

> Rahu represents this "aham" because

>

> 1)it's a grey area:--))

>

> 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently in

> different beings, according to their species/categories. Similarly

> Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house lords/conjoined

> planets, and gives different results.

>

> 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!) which

> represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

>

> I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at least

> some sense:--))

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -nothing

> > belongs

> > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present, there is a

> > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is called EGO

or

> > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For example a

> King

> > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth etc

> > resulting in

> > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > >

> > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > >

> > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for Atman.Though

> > Atman is

> > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

purpose

> of

> > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided but part

of

> > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > superimposition

> > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

Sankara.The

> > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first entry as

> far

> > as

> > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by mind.Atma as

> well

> > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual feeling of

> > > me/mine is ''í''.

> > >

> > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have Death

and

> > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact between

> > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth) making us

> clutch

> > on

> > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> intoxication

> > is

> > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

enhancing

> > the

> > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just keeping

> > > together the already manifested superimposition(Atma/Mind).The

> > level

> > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology the

> > strength of

> > > moon and further associations.

> > >

> > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus does

not

> > make

> > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage(not

> because

> > of

> > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before realization

> nor

> > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma identifies

> itself

> > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or in

other

> > words

> > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > >

> > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should think

of

> > feet

> > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > >

> > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

EGO ,what

> is

> > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please tell me

what

> is

> > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated illusion

> in

> > our

> > > context?.

> > >

> > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to maya

(which

> is

> > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him(but part

of

> > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

catalyst

> or

> > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > >

> > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is still(if

> it

> > is

> > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun brahman.Kind of

> > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he is.

> > >

> > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise space is

> created

> > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into picture).Brahman and

> > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > understanding

> > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail to

> > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting

> > that "ego" is

> > > > found only in some people. If we interpret dispassionately,

> > perhaps

> > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that ego (

> > necessary

> > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every being, as

> much

> > as

> > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't find

us

> > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have ego, you

> have

> > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it, perhaps

in

> > > > different degrees.

> > > >

> > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only to some

> > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> exceptions! "Ego"

> > is

> > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like the

> > kundalini

> > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > >

> > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> dissolving

> > this

> > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a state

> of

> > > > Realization.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet exhilerating

> > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included

> > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the

above

> > and

> > > > > result

> > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

reference

> > was

> > > > not

> > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> certified

> > to

> > > > be

> > > > > impeccable.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn

> gives

> > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall

> > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it,

please

> > let

> > > > me

> > > > > know.

> > > > >

> > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not say

> > > > anything

> > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly

> said

> > any

> > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing

> > > > convoluted

> > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > >

> > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when

it

> > > > doesn't?

> > > > >

> > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing either

> Sun

> > or

> > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that

> Rahu

> > is

> > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when involved in

> > such

> > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these days

> is

> > for

> > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> context.Why

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator

of "I"-

> a

> > > > false

> > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego

(as

> > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This feeling

is

> > also

> > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

individual

> > being

> > > > > different from other.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he

> enters

> > the

> > > > > body

> > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is

> > > > taking ,until

> > > > > self

> > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning

> about

> > > > > individual

> > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling

> > of ''I''.It

> > > > is

> > > > > just

> > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you

tell

> me

> > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship by

> > Saturn

> > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma

> (Saturn)

> > and

> > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth

takes

> > place

> > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel

> trapped

> > in a

> > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time?

Does

> he

> > > > cause

> > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because

he

> > causes

> > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > >

> > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-

> > mails, "ego"

> > > > is

> > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself have

> said

> > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us

> giving

> > us

> > > > a

> > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> together,

> > > > please

> > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > idea

> > > > of

> > > > > oneself.

> > > > >

> > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> understand

> > the

> > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have

> nothing

> > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

bringing

> > me

> > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present discussion:--

))

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the

> > shloka

> > > > from

> > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply

> > > > intoxication

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication" belong

in

> > that

> > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

perhaps

> > you

> > > > > missed

> > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada

does

> > mean

> > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to

> kaamana

> > > > which

> > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is what

> > Asteya,

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise of

> the

> > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can be

> > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any

> > purpose. I

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya

> > related to

> > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka,

to

> > > > support

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious

and

> > the

> > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already

posted

> > the

> > > > way

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument, so

I

> > shall

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would like

to

> > quote

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant

> > Kundalini.

> > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to

> > translate

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta

> > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä

> > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

> > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

> > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

> > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä

kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your

> > > > contention.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so

> that

> > I

> > > > can

> > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your

> > > > propositions

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you by

> > pointing

> > > > > out

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and Rahu

> > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if I

> > have

> > > > done

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger),

> lobha

> > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and maatsarya

> > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply

among

> > the

> > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini"

and

> > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of

> both

> > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be

> routed

> > > > > towards

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the

same?

> > The

> > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use,

is

> > > > > represented

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati,

wisdom

> > and

> > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the

> > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti is

> very

> > very

> > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and

krura.

> I

> > > > also

> > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give

> malefic

> > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You can

> > refer to

> > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning or

> > losing an

> > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an

> > exploration

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case, I

> see

> > no

> > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age are

> > > > operating

> > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not die

> > young.

> > > > So

> > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

Swamiji's

> > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of

> > apparent

> > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart

> confirms

> > > > with

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not

> know

> > I

> > > > was

> > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there is

a

> > Kuja

> > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do not

> > bring

> > > > our

> > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> astrological

> > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions are

on

> > the

> > > > > effects

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The

two

> > have

> > > > to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an event

> but

> > > > only

> > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you have

> > perhaps

> > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in

> that

> > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read

my

> > mail,

> > > > I

> > > > > did

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only

> that

> > it

> > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and

> always

> > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the

topic,

> > did

> > > > its

> > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > Vivekananda's

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a

> > powerful

> > > > Raj

> > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji lived,

> you

> > may

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

Mahakrura.

> > Think

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before

> > declaring

> > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu

and

> > > > looking

> > > > > at

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that he

> > passed

> > > > > away in

> > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10

> > (3:59:13

> > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-27

> > (4:48:54

> > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12

> > (10:43:55

> > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07

> > (5:06:28

> > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-06

> > (2:29:24

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05

> (1:27:03

> > am)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is

the

> > 2nd

> > > > lord

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in

the

> > house

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the

2nd

> > lord

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > significations

> > > > are

> > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early

death.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting 7th

> > house,

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the

> > influence

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th

house?

> I

> > am

> > > > > sure

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))

but

> > > > without

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he

created

> > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in the

> 7th

> > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think the

> > strong

> > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have

not

> > > > > commented

> > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava

that

> > the

> > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already stated

in

> > > > > previous

> > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to great

> > people,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of

what

> I

> > > > said.

> > > > > Did

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant

> > sarcoma

> > > > of

> > > > > left

> > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his

> chart,

> > in

> > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine

the

> > > > > following

> > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd

lord

> > from

> > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart,

rahu

> > is

> > > > with

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all of

> > which

> > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house and

> > ketu

> > > > can

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect, if

> at

> > all,

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03

> > (2:05:32

> > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21

> > (8:49:14

> > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18

> > (12:04:47

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20

> > (12:18:02

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14

> > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14

> > (12:47:04

> > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the

> dasa

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think

> their

> > mind

> > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the

above

> > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in

my

> > next

> > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong as

a

> > planet

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even when

> in

> > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane

> smritam

> > has

> > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered

> > Mars/Venus

> > > > in

> > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please go

> > through

> > > > my

> > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and

that

> > he

> > > > was

> > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its soft

> > language.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics giving

> > P.M.

> > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga

> > attributed

> > > > to

> > > > > it,

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine

they

> > would

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all

with

> > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of

India

> > > > (barring

> > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave us

> > > > principles

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using

> > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving

the

> > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old

> classic

> > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to

accept

> > > > anything

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr.

Raman,

> > it

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the shloka

I

> > would

> > > > of

> > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri B.V.

> > Raman

> > > > that

> > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good

> results,

> > > > while

> > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

disagree

> > about

> > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

contrary

> to

> > > > what

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I

find

> > that

> > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor

that

> > their

> > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna and

> > mars in

> > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in

lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted Saturn

> > (9H)

> > > > and

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi, while

> > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > for "vipareetam

> > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to Saturn's

> > > > placement

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn

> gives

> > good

> > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is

> > because i

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is,

> that

> > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and

the

> > > > shubha

> > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak

and

> > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9

> years

> > > > old,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't

> notice

> > the

> > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the

difference

> > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu is

> > giving

> > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good,

then

> it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart because

> > > > according

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak,

give

> > bad

> > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong

> planets,

> > even

> > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he

> > wouldn't

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly

combust

> > and

> > > > > inferior

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of

Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according

> to "300

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher

shadbala

> > is

> > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you to

> read

> > the

> > > > > Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died,

the

> > > > nature

> > > > > bowed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons in

> > > > > Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because

Parashurama

> > would

> > > > > teach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to learn

> > > > > dhanurvidya

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana.

> Deceit

> > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's to

be

> > borne

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please

> > Duryodhana,

> > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from

8th

> > house

> > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural

zodiac,

> > the

> > > > 10

> > > > > th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents

> > > > > south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the lord

of

> > > > death,

> > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So, the

> > Rudras

> > > > > > > (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun resides

> in

> > > > south

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he

has

> > > > digbala

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I referred

> to

> > > > Surya

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma

and

> > not

> > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the

subject.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the

results

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father

had

> > > > > promotions

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that

time.

> > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age of

9

> or

> > so

> > > > as

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you did

> not

> > > > have

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu

and

> > Rahu

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction, as

> you

> > > > > guessed but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a Dharmakarmaadhipati

> yoga

> > > > after

> > > > > all)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its dasha

> > instead

> > > > of

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because I

> say

> > so

> > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when conjunct

a

> > papa

> > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of Artha

> > trikona

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though

> > claimed to

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th)

and

> > its

> > > > > home

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is more

> > > > popularly

> > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it

is

> > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun

be

> at

> > its

> > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not

represent

> > water

> > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent too.

> My

> > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were great

> and

> > i

> > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative

> > writing,

> > > > > Veena,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a

student,

> I

> > > > guess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if

Sun

> > were

> > > > > weak?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but

> being

> > in

> > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is

> also

> > > > giving

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic

and

> > > > heavily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water

> > bodies,

> > > > so

> > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the

best

> > spam

> > > > > > > protection

> > > > > > > > > > > around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <>

> > > > > > > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> > > > > > > > > < <>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <

> <>

> > > > > > > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > < <>

> > > > > > > > > < <>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------

--

> --

> > ----

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > 268.11.7/435 -

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------

--

> --

> > ----

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > 268.12.2/441 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --------------

--

> --

> > ----

> > > > --

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

268.12.2/442 -

>

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > ________

> > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version is

> > > > radically

> > > > > > > easier

> > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal

> > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------

--

> --

> > ----

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 -

> > Release

> > > > >

> > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > _________

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> > >

> >

>

September 21, 2006

Om Gurave Namah

Namaste Pradeep,

I also miss a lot of mails quite often, so it doesn't surprise me.

Coming to the comment about "grey area"...well it's supposed to make

you laugh, and i myself was laughing when i wrote it:--))Infact, i

am hardly ever serious in life and you can find me laughing at the

drop of a hat!

As i said in my other mail, I will await your feedback and the

possible corrections you may suggest in my approach/understanding.

Regards,

Lakshmi

, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Lakshmi ji

>

> Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

> mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss this:)).

>

> Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

> is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am able to

> explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is aham is

> well explained in your mail.

>

> But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it is a

> GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

>

> As i have said before, Rahu is considered as a ''VazhiChenda''(a

> road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean all

bad

> things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning of Mada

> in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

> Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article if he

> wish.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent, quite

> recent

> > (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham" and

> hope

> > for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and Prafulla

> ji.

> >

> > As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives rise

to

> > actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the Chandala

> said

> > to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it

soul,

> > but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body nor the

> > soul.

> >

> > "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which

basis

> it

> > is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For example, to

> name

> > a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni has the

> > ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These basic

> > abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> > distinctive/individual identity (aham).

> >

> > Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

> certain

> > species which set them apart from others. So is the case with

> > animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the

creation,

> > which is slotted into various categories, though it's all

emanated

> > from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa jnaanam.

> >

> > Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> > different organs of the body too. They all have their appointed

> > abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has the

> > ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the body,

> while

> > legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can do the

> > other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

> >

> > If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego because

it

> > has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the body, is

it

> > correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to control

> the

> > processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will the

body

> > be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--))

> >

> > God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity (ego),

> and

> > how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta),

which

> is

> > a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different species

> are

> > able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

> >

> > But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul, and

> mistake

> > this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the

problems

> > crop up, and as you said, various attachments / aberrations seep

> in.

> >

> > Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push it

down

> > (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly pierce

the

> > eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that he's

in

> > the true sense "Trivikrama"!

> >

> > Rahu represents this "aham" because

> >

> > 1)it's a grey area:--))

> >

> > 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently in

> > different beings, according to their species/categories.

Similarly

> > Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house lords/conjoined

> > planets, and gives different results.

> >

> > 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!) which

> > represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

> >

> > I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at least

> > some sense:--))

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -

nothing

> > > belongs

> > > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present, there is a

> > > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is called

EGO

> or

> > > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For example

a

> > King

> > > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth etc

> > > resulting in

> > > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > > >

> > > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > > >

> > > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for

Atman.Though

> > > Atman is

> > > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

> purpose

> > of

> > > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided but

part

> of

> > > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > > superimposition

> > > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

> Sankara.The

> > > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first entry

as

> > far

> > > as

> > > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by mind.Atma

as

> > well

> > > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual feeling

of

> > > > me/mine is ''í''.

> > > >

> > > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have Death

> and

> > > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact

between

> > > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth) making us

> > clutch

> > > on

> > > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> > intoxication

> > > is

> > > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

> enhancing

> > > the

> > > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just

keeping

> > > > together the already manifested superimposition

(Atma/Mind).The

> > > level

> > > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology the

> > > strength of

> > > > moon and further associations.

> > > >

> > > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus does

> not

> > > make

> > > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage(not

> > because

> > > of

> > > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before

realization

> > nor

> > > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma identifies

> > itself

> > > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or in

> other

> > > words

> > > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > > >

> > > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should

think

> of

> > > feet

> > > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > > >

> > > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

> EGO ,what

> > is

> > > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please tell me

> what

> > is

> > > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated

illusion

> > in

> > > our

> > > > context?.

> > > >

> > > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to maya

> (which

> > is

> > > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him(but

part

> of

> > > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

> catalyst

> > or

> > > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > > >

> > > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is still

(if

> > it

> > > is

> > > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun brahman.Kind of

> > > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he is.

> > > >

> > > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise space is

> > created

> > > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into picture).Brahman

and

> > > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > > understanding

> > > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail to

> > > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting

> > > that "ego" is

> > > > > found only in some people. If we interpret

dispassionately,

> > > perhaps

> > > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that ego (

> > > necessary

> > > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every being,

as

> > much

> > > as

> > > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't find

> us

> > > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have ego,

you

> > have

> > > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it, perhaps

> in

> > > > > different degrees.

> > > > >

> > > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only to

some

> > > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> > exceptions! "Ego"

> > > is

> > > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like the

> > > kundalini

> > > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > > >

> > > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> > dissolving

> > > this

> > > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a

state

> > of

> > > > > Realization.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet exhilerating

> > > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included

> > > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the

> above

> > > and

> > > > > > result

> > > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

> reference

> > > was

> > > > > not

> > > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> > certified

> > > to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > impeccable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn

> > gives

> > > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall

> > > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it,

> please

> > > let

> > > > > me

> > > > > > know.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not

say

> > > > > anything

> > > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly

> > said

> > > any

> > > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing

> > > > > convoluted

> > > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when

> it

> > > > > doesn't?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing

either

> > Sun

> > > or

> > > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that

> > Rahu

> > > is

> > > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when involved

in

> > > such

> > > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these

days

> > is

> > > for

> > > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> > context.Why

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator

> of "I"-

> > a

> > > > > false

> > > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego

> (as

> > > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This

feeling

> is

> > > also

> > > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

> individual

> > > being

> > > > > > different from other.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he

> > enters

> > > the

> > > > > > body

> > > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is

> > > > > taking ,until

> > > > > > self

> > > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning

> > about

> > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling

> > > of ''I''.It

> > > > > is

> > > > > > just

> > > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you

> tell

> > me

> > > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship

by

> > > Saturn

> > > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma

> > (Saturn)

> > > and

> > > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth

> takes

> > > place

> > > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel

> > trapped

> > > in a

> > > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time?

> Does

> > he

> > > > > cause

> > > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because

> he

> > > causes

> > > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-

> > > mails, "ego"

> > > > > is

> > > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself

have

> > said

> > > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us

> > giving

> > > us

> > > > > a

> > > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> > together,

> > > > > please

> > > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

> illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > > idea

> > > > > of

> > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> > understand

> > > the

> > > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have

> > nothing

> > > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

> bringing

> > > me

> > > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present discussion:-

-

> ))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the

> > > shloka

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply

> > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication"

belong

> in

> > > that

> > > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

> perhaps

> > > you

> > > > > > missed

> > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada

> does

> > > mean

> > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to

> > kaamana

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is

what

> > > Asteya,

> > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise

of

> > the

> > > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can

be

> > > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any

> > > purpose. I

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya

> > > related to

> > > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka,

> to

> > > > > support

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious

> and

> > > the

> > > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already

> posted

> > > the

> > > > > way

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument,

so

> I

> > > shall

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would

like

> to

> > > quote

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant

> > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to

> > > translate

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta

> > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä

> > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

> > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

> > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

> > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä

> kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your

> > > > > contention.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so

> > that

> > > I

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your

> > > > > propositions

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you

by

> > > pointing

> > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and

Rahu

> > > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if

I

> > > have

> > > > > done

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger),

> > lobha

> > > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and

maatsarya

> > > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply

> among

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini"

> and

> > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of

> > both

> > > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be

> > routed

> > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the

> same?

> > > The

> > > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use,

> is

> > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati,

> wisdom

> > > and

> > > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the

> > > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti

is

> > very

> > > very

> > > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and

> krura.

> > I

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give

> > malefic

> > > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You

can

> > > refer to

> > > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning

or

> > > losing an

> > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an

> > > exploration

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case,

I

> > see

> > > no

> > > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age

are

> > > > > operating

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not

die

> > > young.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

> Swamiji's

> > > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of

> > > apparent

> > > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart

> > confirms

> > > > > with

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not

> > know

> > > I

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there

is

> a

> > > Kuja

> > > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do

not

> > > bring

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> > astrological

> > > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions

are

> on

> > > the

> > > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The

> two

> > > have

> > > > > to

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an

event

> > but

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you

have

> > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in

> > that

> > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read

> my

> > > mail,

> > > > > I

> > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only

> > that

> > > it

> > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and

> > always

> > > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the

> topic,

> > > did

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > > Vivekananda's

> > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a

> > > powerful

> > > > > Raj

> > > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji

lived,

> > you

> > > may

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

> Mahakrura.

> > > Think

> > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before

> > > declaring

> > > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu

> and

> > > > > looking

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that

he

> > > passed

> > > > > > away in

> > > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10

> > > (3:59:13

> > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-

27

> > > (4:48:54

> > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12

> > > (10:43:55

> > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07

> > > (5:06:28

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-

06

> > > (2:29:24

> > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05

> > (1:27:03

> > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is

> the

> > > 2nd

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in

> the

> > > house

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the

> 2nd

> > > lord

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > > significations

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early

> death.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting

7th

> > > house,

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the

> > > influence

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th

> house?

> > I

> > > am

> > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))

> but

> > > > > without

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he

> created

> > > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the

7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in

the

> > 7th

> > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think

the

> > > strong

> > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have

> not

> > > > > > commented

> > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava

> that

> > > the

> > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already

stated

> in

> > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to

great

> > > people,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of

> what

> > I

> > > > > said.

> > > > > > Did

> > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant

> > > sarcoma

> > > > > of

> > > > > > left

> > > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his

> > chart,

> > > in

> > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine

> the

> > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd

> lord

> > > from

> > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart,

> rahu

> > > is

> > > > > with

> > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all

of

> > > which

> > > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house

and

> > > ketu

> > > > > can

> > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect,

if

> > at

> > > all,

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03

> > > (2:05:32

> > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21

> > > (8:49:14

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18

> > > (12:04:47

> > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20

> > > (12:18:02

> > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-

14

> > > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14

> > > (12:47:04

> > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the

> > dasa

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think

> > their

> > > mind

> > > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the

> above

> > > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in

> my

> > > next

> > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong

as

> a

> > > planet

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even

when

> > in

> > > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane

> > smritam

> > > has

> > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered

> > > Mars/Venus

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please

go

> > > through

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and

> that

> > > he

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its

soft

> > > language.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics

giving

> > > P.M.

> > > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga

> > > attributed

> > > > > to

> > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine

> they

> > > would

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all

> with

> > > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of

> India

> > > > > (barring

> > > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave

us

> > > > > principles

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using

> > > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving

> the

> > > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old

> > classic

> > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to

> accept

> > > > > anything

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr.

> Raman,

> > > it

> > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the

shloka

> I

> > > would

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri

B.V.

> > > Raman

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good

> > results,

> > > > > while

> > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

> disagree

> > > about

> > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

> contrary

> > to

> > > > > what

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I

> find

> > > that

> > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor

> that

> > > their

> > > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna

and

> > > mars in

> > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in

> lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted

Saturn

> > > (9H)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi,

while

> > > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > > for "vipareetam

> > > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to

Saturn's

> > > > > placement

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn

> > gives

> > > good

> > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is

> > > because i

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

> 40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is,

> > that

> > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and

> the

> > > > > shubha

> > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak

> and

> > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9

> > years

> > > > > old,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't

> > notice

> > > the

> > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the

> difference

> > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu

is

> > > giving

> > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good,

> then

> > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart

because

> > > > > according

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak,

> give

> > > bad

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong

> > planets,

> > > even

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he

> > > wouldn't

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly

> combust

> > > and

> > > > > > inferior

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of

> Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according

> > to "300

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher

> shadbala

> > > is

> > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you

to

> > read

> > > the

> > > > > > Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died,

> the

> > > > > nature

> > > > > > bowed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons

in

> > > > > > Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because

> Parashurama

> > > would

> > > > > > teach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to

learn

> > > > > > dhanurvidya

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana.

> > Deceit

> > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's

to

> be

> > > borne

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please

> > > Duryodhana,

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from

> 8th

> > > house

> > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural

> zodiac,

> > > the

> > > > > 10

> > > > > > th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents

> > > > > > south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the

lord

> of

> > > > > death,

> > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So,

the

> > > Rudras

> > > > > > > > (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun

resides

> > in

> > > > > south

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he

> has

> > > > > digbala

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I

referred

> > to

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma

> and

> > > not

> > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the

> subject.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the

> results

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father

> had

> > > > > > promotions

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that

> time.

> > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age

of

> 9

> > or

> > > so

> > > > > as

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you

did

> > not

> > > > > have

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu

> and

> > > Rahu

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction,

as

> > you

> > > > > > guessed but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a

Dharmakarmaadhipati

> > yoga

> > > > > after

> > > > > > all)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its

dasha

> > > instead

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because

I

> > say

> > > so

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when

conjunct

> a

> > > papa

> > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of

Artha

> > > trikona

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though

> > > claimed to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th)

> and

> > > its

> > > > > > home

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can give death. But 8th is

more

> > > > > popularly

> > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mrityu sthana and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th is called Smashana. If it

> is

> > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana why would it be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma sthana and why would Sun

> be

> > at

> > > its

> > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brilliant there?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not say he can not

> represent

> > > water

> > > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in temple, but not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Sun dasa was excellent

too.

> > My

> > > > > father

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > received promotion(s),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > school/college days were

great

> > and

> > > i

> > > > > > received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide acclaim/prizes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for my ability in creative

> > > writing,

> > > > > > Veena,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quiz contests etc,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from studies. So, for a

> student,

> > I

> > > > > guess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's excellent!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you justify this, if

> Sun

> > > were

> > > > > > weak?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is certainly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the yogakaraka results, but

> > being

> > > in

> > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun, don't you think Rahu is

> > also

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of Sun? You

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that mercury is malefic

> and

> > > > > heavily

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combust too:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1th house also represent

burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground/smashaana. Is that a place

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for attachment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandra represents all water

> > > bodies,

> > > > > so

> > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can't he represent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple tank?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the

> best

> > > spam

> > > > > > > > protection

> > > > > > > > > > > > around

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > <>

> > > > > > > > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > > > > > > > > > < <>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <

> > <>

> > > > > > > > > > < <>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <

<>

> > > > > > > > > > < <>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----

--

> --

> > --

> > > ----

> > > > > --

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-

date.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > 268.11.7/435 -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/31/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

have

> > been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------

--

> --

> > --

> > > ----

> > > > > --

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > 268.12.2/441 -

> > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 9/7/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > ----

> > > > > --

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> 268.12.2/442 -

> >

> > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ________

> > > > > > > > > > > Try the all-new Mail. "The New Version

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> > > > > radically

> > > > > > > > easier

> > > > > > > > > > to use" – The Wall Street Journal

> > > > > > > > > > > http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> > > > > > > > > > <http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html>

> > > > > > > > > > >

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> > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 -

> > > Release

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 9/8/2006

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> > > > > > > > >

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>

September 22, 2006

Namaskaar Sri Pradeep & Sri Lakshmi

Sri Pradeep - Today you have written a nice piece with proper understanding

and please accept my best wishes for your further learning, away from ego

and knowledge upmanship.

A few points though,

Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

entity ,resulting in Duality.

Body itself lies within the Consciousness, therefore Atma is never trapped.

It is foreover free. When the mind misinterprets itself as an individual,

the duality rises. So keep the understanding that Consciousness is never

trapped and can never be trapped. This is important. Therefore,

consciousness cannot be called as a "cause" for duality.

It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all karma

bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody else.Mind,Indiryas and

Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling

Atman is never influenced by Maya. It never was and never will be. It is

beyond Maya and time. This is evident from the Mahavakya - "Atman is

Brahman". Jeevatma refers to an individual with a mistaken identity. One

who considers his/her Self to be different from the other. This is evidently

is mistake. If you take the understanding that Maya influences the Atman,

then, you are suggesting the existence of Maya separate from Atman. This is

clearly untrue. The duality comes from the misapprehension, whereas sleep

comes from the non-apprehension.

Maya is at the will of HIM. As long as jivatma follows the mind(means

unaware of its real nature and

identifying itself with mental perceptions)there is a seperate

identity.This false feeling of jivatma is Aham.Detachment is about

stopping this ''i follow you'' business

Maya is not a will of Brahman. If it were a will, then it would be a desire

on the part of Brahman.And Brahman has no desires. Maya is neither the Truth

and nor the Untruth. It has no separate existence other than Brahman. It

only refers to a self delusion in absence of knowledge. Again Maya is said

to express only for those who are not the knowers of the Truth. For the Self

Realized, there isn't any Maya.

Jivatma does not follow anyone. Jivatma refers to the mistaken self and

therefore, refers to the mind too. A better statement would be that when the

mind stops following the senses and looks at its very source, it is

detachment.

Ego is a separative thought. The fact that one is an individual and think

himself/herself to be different from others, then ego is said to be present..

Being a limited individual we feel constricted within as our true nature is

indivisible Brahman. The Ego is born out of misapprehension of the Reality.

The misapprehension is there, because of the non-apprehension of the

Reality. In other words, the decision and thought that "I am an individual

separate from others" is a faulty decision based on ignorance of my true

nature.

Vedas, especially the Upanishads contained therein, are a pramana to make us

realize the true nature of the Self.

Not going further, when we say there is Misapprehension, it is a "graha"

seizing our understanding to make us believe that we are limited beings.

There is a role of every graha except Sun in strengthening this

misapprehension. Through Guru Kripa and Prabhu Kripa, the very role of each

graha can be used to understand the misapprehension and to break it. This

activity is known as Purushartha. Purushartha reveals the illusion of

destiny. It makes us realize that destiny is not real but our own past

purushartha. Sri Vashishta explains this very well in Yoga Vashistha. This

knowledge makes one aware of one's innate nature and does not make oneself a

slave of destiny. Destiny or Time/Space/Causation or Kala is the illusion.

The Illusion is that of Rahu. It borrows the qualities of Brahman (endless,

infinite) to "show" as endless time and space. Within this endless time, it

creates the past, present and future and engages the mind in the past and

the future. Within the space, it creates the dimensions and creates

boundaries for the body and deludes to identify with the body. This is the

original deception of Rahu and therefore, the cause of feeling of

limitedness and therefore of Ego.

The grahan of the Surya, is grahan of our understanding in mistakenly

believing ourselves to the limited beings. This is the reason Rahu does not

have light, it only casts shadow! This grahan is also seen in Surya's light

which shows that the light of consciousness helps us understand that our

understanding is under a grahan and it can come out of it through

discrimination in light of the Vedas.

Furthermore, I do not know what Sri Visti has said in his article and cannot

comment upon the same. I hope my words do not cause any discomfort to anyone

for that is not my intention.

I hope the above comments help.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 9/22/06, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote:

>

> Dear Lakshmi ji

>

> As promised please find my understanding.Pure Bodha or Consciousness

> is NON Dual.

>

> Now -

>

> 1)Why is Mukthi or liberation needed? 2)Is somebody trapped? 3)If yes

> who is this ''party -misconcept'' needing liberation 4)Where is the

> same trapped 5)What is the effect of this trap?

>

> Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

> entity ,resulting in Duality.Objects in Prakrithi and similarly every

> body can be treated as ''Mirrors''.It is the same bodha, but, falling

> on different mirrors.Hence it is called Reflection.Since bodha is

> having chetana it can enliven the body through the inherent

> Shakthi.From thereon we call him jeevatma and is the provider of

> necessary life force for executing Karmas.Interestingly it is these

> very Karmas that sustains the trap!!.

>

> It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all karma

> bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

> Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody else.Mind,Indiryas and

> Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling.Maya is at the will of HIM.As

> long as jivatma follows the mind(means unaware of its real nature and

> identifying itself with mental perceptions)there is a seperate

> identity.This false feeling of jivatma is Aham.Detachment is about

> stopping this ''i follow you'' business.As Chandrashekhar ji has said

> moving away and observing the mind,in a detached fashion will solve

> all the puzzles.Atma is the only party capable of taming the mind -if

> and only if it understands that ''i'' am not ''mind,this body or

> name''.Beginning of spiritual learning is this knowledge.Realization

> is TOTAL merger.

> When we ask who am i,who am i,whom am i - where do we reach?.It was

> ofcourse the dual feeling(i) for the undivided part of the NON dUAL!!!

>

> This Jeevatma is not Rahu.I feel now it is clear why AtmaKaraka is the

> Karaka for Self.I request Chandrashekhar ji to correct me.Rahu is

> neither the Pride.Pride is always for the self because of

> attachments,false identification,ignorance.Rahu is that intoxicating

> agent,which makes us attached to Vishayas and Sukhas or in other words

> earthly attachment.

> It is not a small role as you say.It is acting as a

> catalyst(intoxication) for Karma bandhas which is necessary for

> learning.Initially we started the discussion with pride as Rahu and

> now you have safely anchored on to ego as in ''seperate identity and

> giving Rahu a bigger role:-).Rahu is not ''Í'''.It is also the

> reversing agent.Why Simha rashi has nature ''Garvadhikya'' should also

> be clear.Surya is the subtle core,but jivatma has false conceptions

> until realization.

>

> Now would you think Vistiji may correct his article.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>,

> "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > I also miss a lot of mails quite often, so it doesn't surprise me.

> >

> > Coming to the comment about "grey area"...well it's supposed to make

> > you laugh, and i myself was laughing when i wrote it:--))Infact, i

> > am hardly ever serious in life and you can find me laughing at the

> > drop of a hat!

> >

> > As i said in my other mail, I will await your feedback and the

> > possible corrections you may suggest in my approach/understanding.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > <%40>,

> "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > >

> > > Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

> > > mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss this:)).

> > >

> > > Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

> > > is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am able to

> > > explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is aham is

> > > well explained in your mail.

> > >

> > > But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it is a

> > > GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

> > >

> > > As i have said before, Rahu is considered as a ''VazhiChenda''(a

> > > road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean all

> > bad

> > > things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning of Mada

> > > in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

> > > Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article if he

> > > wish.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > <%40>,

> "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent, quite

> > > recent

> > > > (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham" and

> > > hope

> > > > for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and Prafulla

> > > ji.

> > > >

> > > > As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives rise

> > to

> > > > actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the Chandala

> > > said

> > > > to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it

> > soul,

> > > > but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body nor the

> > > > soul.

> > > >

> > > > "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which

> > basis

> > > it

> > > > is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For example, to

> > > name

> > > > a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni has the

> > > > ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These basic

> > > > abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> > > > distinctive/individual identity (aham).

> > > >

> > > > Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

> > > certain

> > > > species which set them apart from others. So is the case with

> > > > animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the

> > creation,

> > > > which is slotted into various categories, though it's all

> > emanated

> > > > from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa jnaanam.

> > > >

> > > > Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> > > > different organs of the body too. They all have their appointed

> > > > abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has the

> > > > ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the body,

> > > while

> > > > legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can do the

> > > > other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

> > > >

> > > > If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego because

> > it

> > > > has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the body, is

> > it

> > > > correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to control

> > > the

> > > > processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will the

> > body

> > > > be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--))

> > > >

> > > > God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity (ego),

> > > and

> > > > how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta),

> > which

> > > is

> > > > a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different species

> > > are

> > > > able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

> > > >

> > > > But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul, and

> > > mistake

> > > > this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the

> > problems

> > > > crop up, and as you said, various attachments / aberrations seep

> > > in.

> > > >

> > > > Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push it

> > down

> > > > (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly pierce

> > the

> > > > eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that he's

> > in

> > > > the true sense "Trivikrama"!

> > > >

> > > > Rahu represents this "aham" because

> > > >

> > > > 1)it's a grey area:--))

> > > >

> > > > 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently in

> > > > different beings, according to their species/categories.

> > Similarly

> > > > Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house lords/conjoined

> > > > planets, and gives different results.

> > > >

> > > > 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!) which

> > > > represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at least

> > > > some sense:--))

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -

> > nothing

> > > > > belongs

> > > > > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present, there is a

> > > > > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is called

> > EGO

> > > or

> > > > > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For example

> > a

> > > > King

> > > > > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth etc

> > > > > resulting in

> > > > > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for

> > Atman.Though

> > > > > Atman is

> > > > > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

> > > purpose

> > > > of

> > > > > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided but

> > part

> > > of

> > > > > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > > > > superimposition

> > > > > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

> > > Sankara.The

> > > > > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first entry

> > as

> > > > far

> > > > > as

> > > > > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by mind.Atma

> > as

> > > > well

> > > > > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual feeling

> > of

> > > > > > me/mine is ''í''.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have Death

> > > and

> > > > > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact

> > between

> > > > > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth) making us

> > > > clutch

> > > > > on

> > > > > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> > > > intoxication

> > > > > is

> > > > > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

> > > enhancing

> > > > > the

> > > > > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just

> > keeping

> > > > > > together the already manifested superimposition

> > (Atma/Mind).The

> > > > > level

> > > > > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology the

> > > > > strength of

> > > > > > moon and further associations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus does

> > > not

> > > > > make

> > > > > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage(not

> > > > because

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before

> > realization

> > > > nor

> > > > > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma identifies

> > > > itself

> > > > > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or in

> > > other

> > > > > words

> > > > > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should

> > think

> > > of

> > > > > feet

> > > > > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

> > > EGO ,what

> > > > is

> > > > > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please tell me

> > > what

> > > > is

> > > > > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated

> > illusion

> > > > in

> > > > > our

> > > > > > context?.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to maya

> > > (which

> > > > is

> > > > > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him(but

> > part

> > > of

> > > > > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

> > > catalyst

> > > > or

> > > > > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is still

> > (if

> > > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun brahman.Kind of

> > > > > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise space is

> > > > created

> > > > > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into picture).Brahman

> > and

> > > > > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > > > > understanding

> > > > > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>,

> "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail to

> > > > > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting

> > > > > that "ego" is

> > > > > > > found only in some people. If we interpret

> > dispassionately,

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that ego (

> > > > > necessary

> > > > > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every being,

> > as

> > > > much

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't find

> > > us

> > > > > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have ego,

> > you

> > > > have

> > > > > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it, perhaps

> > > in

> > > > > > > different degrees.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only to

> > some

> > > > > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> > > > exceptions! "Ego"

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like the

> > > > > kundalini

> > > > > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> > > > dissolving

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a

> > state

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Realization.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet exhilerating

> > > > > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <%40>,

> "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included

> > > > > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the

> > > above

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > result

> > > > > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

> > > reference

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> > > > certified

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > impeccable.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn

> > > > gives

> > > > > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall

> > > > > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it,

> > > please

> > > > > let

> > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > know.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not

> > say

> > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly

> > > > said

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing

> > > > > > > convoluted

> > > > > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when

> > > it

> > > > > > > doesn't?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing

> > either

> > > > Sun

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when involved

> > in

> > > > > such

> > > > > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these

> > days

> > > > is

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> > > > context.Why

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > > > > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator

> > > of "I"-

> > > > a

> > > > > > > false

> > > > > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego

> > > (as

> > > > > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This

> > feeling

> > > is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

> > > individual

> > > > > being

> > > > > > > > different from other.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he

> > > > enters

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is

> > > > > > > taking ,until

> > > > > > > > self

> > > > > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning

> > > > about

> > > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling

> > > > > of ''I''.It

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you

> > > tell

> > > > me

> > > > > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship

> > by

> > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma

> > > > (Saturn)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth

> > > takes

> > > > > place

> > > > > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel

> > > > trapped

> > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time?

> > > Does

> > > > he

> > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because

> > > he

> > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-

> > > > > mails, "ego"

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself

> > have

> > > > said

> > > > > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us

> > > > giving

> > > > > us

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> > > > together,

> > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

> > > illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > > > > idea

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> > > > understand

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have

> > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

> > > bringing

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present discussion:-

> > -

> > > ))

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the

> > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply

> > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication"

> > belong

> > > in

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

> > > perhaps

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > > missed

> > > > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada

> > > does

> > > > > mean

> > > > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to

> > > > kaamana

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is

> > what

> > > > > Asteya,

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can

> > be

> > > > > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any

> > > > > purpose. I

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya

> > > > > related to

> > > > > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka,

> > > to

> > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious

> > > and

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already

> > > posted

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > way

> > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument,

> > so

> > > I

> > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would

> > like

> > > to

> > > > > quote

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant

> > > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to

> > > > > translate

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta Éìjntax> k…{flI devta

> > > > > > > > > > > ädhäre paradevatä bhavrajanatädhaù kuëòalé devatä

> > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iÇjgtamanNdpuÃiSwta,

> > > > > > > > > > > devänämadhidevatä trijagatämänandapuïjasthitä|

> > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iÇrm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > > > > mülädhäraniväsiné triramaëé yä jïäniné mäliné

> > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta k…lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > > > > sä me mätåmanusthitä

> > > kulapathänandaikabéjänanä||32|21||

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your

> > > > > > > contention.

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so

> > > > that

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your

> > > > > > > propositions

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you

> > by

> > > > > pointing

> > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and

> > Rahu

> > > > > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if

> > I

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger),

> > > > lobha

> > > > > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and

> > maatsarya

> > > > > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply

> > > among

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > > > > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini"

> > > and

> > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of

> > > > both

> > > > > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be

> > > > routed

> > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the

> > > same?

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use,

> > > is

> > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati,

> > > wisdom

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the

> > > > > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti

> > is

> > > > very

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and

> > > krura.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give

> > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You

> > can

> > > > > refer to

> > > > > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning

> > or

> > > > > losing an

> > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an

> > > > > exploration

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case,

> > I

> > > > see

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age

> > are

> > > > > > > operating

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not

> > die

> > > > > young.

> > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

> > > Swamiji's

> > > > > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of

> > > > > apparent

> > > > > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart

> > > > confirms

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not

> > > > know

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there

> > is

> > > a

> > > > > Kuja

> > > > > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do

> > not

> > > > > bring

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions

> > are

> > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The

> > > two

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an

> > event

> > > > but

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you

> > have

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read

> > > my

> > > > > mail,

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only

> > > > that

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and

> > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the

> > > topic,

> > > > > did

> > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > > > > Vivekananda's

> > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a

> > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > Raj

> > > > > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji

> > lived,

> > > > you

> > > > > may

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

> > > Mahakrura.

> > > > > Think

> > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before

> > > > > declaring

> > > > > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu

> > > and

> > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that

> > he

> > > > > passed

> > > > > > > > away in

> > > > > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10

> > > > > (3:59:13

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-

> > 27

> > > > > (4:48:54

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12

> > > > > (10:43:55

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07

> > > > > (5:06:28

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-

> > 06

> > > > > (2:29:24

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05

> > > > (1:27:03

> > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is

> > > the

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in

> > > the

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the

> > > 2nd

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > > > > significations

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early

> > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting

> > 7th

> > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the

> > > > > influence

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th

> > > house?

> > > > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))

> > > but

> > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he

> > > created

> > > > > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the

> > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in

> > the

> > > > 7th

> > > > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think

> > the

> > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have

> > > not

> > > > > > > > commented

> > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already

> > stated

> > > in

> > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to

> > great

> > > > > people,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of

> > > what

> > > > I

> > > > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > Did

> > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant

> > > > > sarcoma

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > left

> > > > > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his

> > > > chart,

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine

> > > the

> > > > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd

> > > lord

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart,

> > > rahu

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all

> > of

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house

> > and

> > > > > ketu

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect,

> > if

> > > > at

> > > > > all,

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03

> > > > > (2:05:32

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21

> > > > > (8:49:14

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18

> > > > > (12:04:47

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20

> > > > > (12:18:02

> > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-

> > 14

> > > > > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14

> > > > > (12:47:04

> > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the

> > > > dasa

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think

> > > > their

> > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the

> > > above

> > > > > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in

> > > my

> > > > > next

> > > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong

> > as

> > > a

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even

> > when

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane

> > > > smritam

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered

> > > > > Mars/Venus

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please

> > go

> > > > > through

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and

> > > that

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its

> > soft

> > > > > language.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics

> > giving

> > > > > P.M.

> > > > > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga

> > > > > attributed

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine

> > > they

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all

> > > with

> > > > > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of

> > > India

> > > > > > > (barring

> > > > > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave

> > us

> > > > > > > principles

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using

> > > > > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving

> > > the

> > > > > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old

> > > > classic

> > > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to

> > > accept

> > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr.

> > > Raman,

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the

> > shloka

> > > I

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri

> > B.V.

> > > > > Raman

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good

> > > > results,

> > > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

> > > disagree

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

> > > contrary

> > > > to

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I

> > > find

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor

> > > that

> > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna

> > and

> > > > > mars in

> > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in

> > > lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted

> > Saturn

> > > > > (9H)

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi,

> > while

> > > > > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > > > > for "vipareetam

> > > > > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to

> > Saturn's

> > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn

> > > > gives

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is

> > > > > because i

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

> > > 40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is,

> > > > that

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura (Maha-krura) and

> > > the

> > > > > > > shubha

> > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more shubha.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only Shani is more krura when weak

> > > and

> > > > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less krura when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong "Viparitama shaneH smritam".

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sun dasa started when I was 9

> > > > years

> > > > > > > old,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ended when I was 15

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years old. How come you didn't

> > > > notice

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > part? I was old

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough to understand the

> > > difference

> > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > success and failure, I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guess!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, if you agree that Rahu

> > is

> > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > Sun's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results, and those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results are exceptionally good,

> > > then

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > automatically follows that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun is strong in my chart

> > because

> > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri B.V Raman, evil

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets, especially when weak,

> > > give

> > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (vide "a catechism

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of astrology"), while strong

> > > > planets,

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evil, give good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. If my Sun were weak, he

> > > > > wouldn't

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving such good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Mercury is hopelessly

> > > combust

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > inferior

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in shadbala

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength, the major results of

> > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > karmadhipathi yoga are also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given by Sun, because according

> > > > to "300

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > combinations" of Sri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raman, a planet with higher

> > > shadbala

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely to give the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results of a yoga.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Karna, I request you

> > to

> > > > read

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parva of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahabharata again. When he died,

> > > the

> > > > > > > nature

> > > > > > > > bowed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in grief, because

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he's one of the noblest persons

> > in

> > > > > > > > Mahabharata.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even the episode you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quoted happened because

> > > Parashurama

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > teach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only Brahmins and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna desperately wanted to

> > learn

> > > > > > > > dhanurvidya

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashurama so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that he can support Duryodhana.

> > > > Deceit

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly punishable and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did pay dearly. But it's

> > to

> > > be

> > > > > borne

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that whatever

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karna did was only to please

> > > > > Duryodhana,

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dearest friend. Karna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did not gain anything personally.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the 3rd house from

> > > 8th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > (I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think there was a typo

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at your end). In the natural

> > > zodiac,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 10

> > > > > > > > th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sign, being the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cardinal earth sign, represents

> > > > > > > > south /dakshina

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > disha. South is the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction ruled by Yama, the

> > lord

> > > of

> > > > > > > death,

> > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > represents burial grounds. So,

> > the

> > > > > Rudras

> > > > > > > > > > (Saturn,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Mars) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strong in south. Also, Sun

> > resides

> > > > in

> > > > > > > south

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > starts his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > northern voyage from here. So he

> > > has

> > > > > > > digbala

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did clarify that when I

> > referred

> > > > to

> > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karma saakshi, it's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only to his status as antaraatma

> > > and

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > as a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deity. Perhaps this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escaped your attention.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my last post on the

> > > subject.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <JyotishGrou p%

> > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were too young for the

> > > results

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to manifest,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is good news that your father

> > > had

> > > > > > > > promotions

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you received

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prizes/accolades during that

> > > time.

> > > > > It is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interesting to know you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > got

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these results at a young age

> > of

> > > 9

> > > > or

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is when Sun dasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operative. I am relieved you

> > did

> > > > not

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > health problems in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > March-August 1970 period.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But we are talking about Rahu

> > > and

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give results of Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prominently, by conjunction,

> > as

> > > > you

> > > > > > > > guessed but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also that of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (You have a

> > Dharmakarmaadhipati

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > all)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is why I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for understanding Sun its

> > dasha

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dasha needs to be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyzed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mercury is malefic not because

> > I

> > > > say

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because Jyotish says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mercury is malefic when

> > conjunct

> > > a

> > > > > papa

> > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and he is conjunct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house is the apex of

> > Artha

> > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly involved with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts to earn money. Though

> > > > > claimed to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smashana/burial

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is 4th from ayush sthana (8th)

> > > and

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > home

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is why affliction

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> ...

>

> [Message clipped]

September 22, 2006

Namaskaar Sri Pradeep

You think that the bondage has actually happened and that there is a jail in

which one fellow named Atma falls into. This is not so.

I thought you were thinking properly now and so decided to throw in my

comments. Kindly neglect them as they are not for a mind such as yours.

Kindly pardon me for starting this discussion. I must have been out of my

mind to think you had realized something.

I do not require help. Perhaps that is your way of telling others that you

are right and your thinking is right. Such comments are better kept to

oneself and not spoken in a public forum. Perhaps you do not realize that

either. I can write in much more sarcastic and taunting manner than you can,

but it is not for me to stoop to your level.

Let my comments be for Sri Lakshmi and others.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 9/22/06, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote:

>

> Dear Bharat Ji

>

> I fail to understand the reason behind yourself congratulating

> me!!!.Because you have contradicted whatever i have written.

>

> First of all -i have said Pure Bodha or Consciousness is Non dual.This

> is the Realization which Yogis had.I would like to have this too.Also

> i understand that,saying I am HIM and perceving so are different from

> Realizing it.

>

> Now please tell me whether mind is part of body or not?If yes who is

> getting liberation ?Mind?

>

> Identifying oneself with body and mind is duality so who is

> identiying?Who is having the false apprehension?

>

> Mind is an instrument like body.Instrument does not need liberation.It

> is actually a two way process.Mind needs jeevatma to function and

> jeevatma falsely identifies itself with the very mind and body which

> are running because of it.

>

> This two way process is extolled by sages as ''Paraspara Ashrayathwa

> of mind and Atma''.

>

> Atma following mind has Pramanas to support.It does not mean atma is

> standing up and going somewhere.It is pointing to the Manovyaparas.

>

> Please understand that duality is for the jivatma under the influence

> of Maya.Maya is at his Will.It is his desire.Division is a phenomenon

> like cell division.This is at his will.Though he is undivided there is

> and expansive division with no change happening to his nature.

>

> Dwaita bhava is for whom?How is bhava possile?

>

> Do you beleive in rebirth?What happens to jivatma and mind after

> death?Is it possible to have two souls in a body -say an extra

> duratma?Have you ever heard of a soul conversing to another living

> being?Sidhas can listen to the words of soul and i know such a person

> very well.I was sitting next to Him while he was receiving such a

> signal from another soul sitting nearby.

>

> I request other members to help Bharat ji as it is difficult for me.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> mind.groups.com, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote:

> >

> > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep & Sri Lakshmi

> >

> > Sri Pradeep - Today you have written a nice piece with proper

> understanding

> > and please accept my best wishes for your further learning, away

> from ego

> > and knowledge upmanship.

> >

> > A few points though,

> >

> > Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

> > entity ,resulting in Duality.

> > Body itself lies within the Consciousness, therefore Atma is never

> trapped.

> > It is foreover free. When the mind misinterprets itself as an

> individual,

> > the duality rises. So keep the understanding that Consciousness is never

> > trapped and can never be trapped. This is important. Therefore,

> > consciousness cannot be called as a "cause" for duality.

> >

> > It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all karma

> > bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

> > Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody else.Mind,Indiryas and

> > Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling

> > Atman is never influenced by Maya. It never was and never will be. It is

> > beyond Maya and time. This is evident from the Mahavakya - "Atman is

> > Brahman". Jeevatma refers to an individual with a mistaken

> identity. One

> > who considers his/her Self to be different from the other. This is

> evidently

> > is mistake. If you take the understanding that Maya influences the

> Atman,

> > then, you are suggesting the existence of Maya separate from Atman.

> This is

> > clearly untrue. The duality comes from the misapprehension, whereas

> sleep

> > comes from the non-apprehension.

> >

> > Maya is at the will of HIM. As long as jivatma follows the mind(means

> > unaware of its real nature and

> > identifying itself with mental perceptions)there is a seperate

> > identity.This false feeling of jivatma is Aham.Detachment is about

> > stopping this ''i follow you'' business

> > Maya is not a will of Brahman. If it were a will, then it would be a

> desire

> > on the part of Brahman.And Brahman has no desires. Maya is neither

> the Truth

> > and nor the Untruth. It has no separate existence other than Brahman. It

> > only refers to a self delusion in absence of knowledge. Again Maya

> is said

> > to express only for those who are not the knowers of the Truth. For

> the Self

> > Realized, there isn't any Maya.

> >

> > Jivatma does not follow anyone. Jivatma refers to the mistaken self and

> > therefore, refers to the mind too. A better statement would be that

> when the

> > mind stops following the senses and looks at its very source, it is

> > detachment.

> >

> > Ego is a separative thought. The fact that one is an individual and

> think

> > himself/herself to be different from others, then ego is said to be

> present.

> > Being a limited individual we feel constricted within as our true

> nature is

> > indivisible Brahman. The Ego is born out of misapprehension of the

> Reality.

> > The misapprehension is there, because of the non-apprehension of the

> > Reality. In other words, the decision and thought that "I am an

> individual

> > separate from others" is a faulty decision based on ignorance of my true

> > nature.

> >

> > Vedas, especially the Upanishads contained therein, are a pramana to

> make us

> > realize the true nature of the Self.

> >

> > Not going further, when we say there is Misapprehension, it is a "graha"

> > seizing our understanding to make us believe that we are limited beings..

> > There is a role of every graha except Sun in strengthening this

> > misapprehension. Through Guru Kripa and Prabhu Kripa, the very role

> of each

> > graha can be used to understand the misapprehension and to break it.

> This

> > activity is known as Purushartha. Purushartha reveals the illusion of

> > destiny. It makes us realize that destiny is not real but our own past

> > purushartha. Sri Vashishta explains this very well in Yoga

> Vashistha. This

> > knowledge makes one aware of one's innate nature and does not make

> oneself a

> > slave of destiny. Destiny or Time/Space/Causation or Kala is the

> illusion.

> > The Illusion is that of Rahu. It borrows the qualities of Brahman

> (endless,

> > infinite) to "show" as endless time and space. Within this endless

> time, it

> > creates the past, present and future and engages the mind in the

> past and

> > the future. Within the space, it creates the dimensions and creates

> > boundaries for the body and deludes to identify with the body. This

> is the

> > original deception of Rahu and therefore, the cause of feeling of

> > limitedness and therefore of Ego.

> >

> > The grahan of the Surya, is grahan of our understanding in mistakenly

> > believing ourselves to the limited beings. This is the reason Rahu

> does not

> > have light, it only casts shadow! This grahan is also seen in

> Surya's light

> > which shows that the light of consciousness helps us understand that our

> > understanding is under a grahan and it can come out of it through

> > discrimination in light of the Vedas.

> >

> > Furthermore, I do not know what Sri Visti has said in his article

> and cannot

> > comment upon the same. I hope my words do not cause any discomfort

> to anyone

> > for that is not my intention.

> >

> > I hope the above comments help.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 9/22/06, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > >

> > > As promised please find my understanding.Pure Bodha or Consciousness

> > > is NON Dual.

> > >

> > > Now -

> > >

> > > 1)Why is Mukthi or liberation needed? 2)Is somebody trapped? 3)If yes

> > > who is this ''party -misconcept'' needing liberation 4)Where is the

> > > same trapped 5)What is the effect of this trap?

> > >

> > > Bodha trapped in the cage of body,identifies itself as a seperate

> > > entity ,resulting in Duality.Objects in Prakrithi and similarly every

> > > body can be treated as ''Mirrors''.It is the same bodha, but, falling

> > > on different mirrors.Hence it is called Reflection.Since bodha is

> > > having chetana it can enliven the body through the inherent

> > > Shakthi.From thereon we call him jeevatma and is the provider of

> > > necessary life force for executing Karmas.Interestingly it is these

> > > very Karmas that sustains the trap!!.

> > >

> > > It is then quite a journey for the soul before it frees from all karma

> > > bandhas.Thus it is the ''Jivatma- ie Atma under the influence of

> > > Maya'' - which is having dual feeling - nobody else.Mind,Indiryas and

> > > Vishayas facilitates this dual feeling.Maya is at the will of HIM.As

> > > long as jivatma follows the mind(means unaware of its real nature and

> > > identifying itself with mental perceptions)there is a seperate

> > > identity.This false feeling of jivatma is Aham.Detachment is about

> > > stopping this ''i follow you'' business.As Chandrashekhar ji has said

> > > moving away and observing the mind,in a detached fashion will solve

> > > all the puzzles.Atma is the only party capable of taming the mind -if

> > > and only if it understands that ''i'' am not ''mind,this body or

> > > name''.Beginning of spiritual learning is this knowledge.Realization

> > > is TOTAL merger.

> > > When we ask who am i,who am i,whom am i - where do we reach?.It was

> > > ofcourse the dual feeling(i) for the undivided part of the NON dUAL!!!

> > >

> > > This Jeevatma is not Rahu.I feel now it is clear why AtmaKaraka is the

> > > Karaka for Self.I request Chandrashekhar ji to correct me.Rahu is

> > > neither the Pride.Pride is always for the self because of

> > > attachments,false identification,ignorance.Rahu is that intoxicating

> > > agent,which makes us attached to Vishayas and Sukhas or in other words

> > > earthly attachment.

> > > It is not a small role as you say.It is acting as a

> > > catalyst(intoxication) for Karma bandhas which is necessary for

> > > learning.Initially we started the discussion with pride as Rahu and

> > > now you have safely anchored on to ego as in ''seperate identity and

> > > giving Rahu a bigger role:-).Rahu is not ''ï¿½'''.It is also the

> > > reversing agent.Why Simha rashi has nature ''Garvadhikya'' should also

> > > be clear.Surya is the subtle core,but jivatma has false conceptions

> > > until realization.

> > >

> > > Now would you think Vistiji may correct his article.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > <%40><%40>,

> > > "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > I also miss a lot of mails quite often, so it doesn't surprise me.

> > > >

> > > > Coming to the comment about "grey area"...well it's supposed to make

> > > > you laugh, and i myself was laughing when i wrote it:--))Infact, i

> > > > am hardly ever serious in life and you can find me laughing at the

> > > > drop of a hat!

> > > >

> > > > As i said in my other mail, I will await your feedback and the

> > > > possible corrections you may suggest in my approach/understanding.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > <%40>

> <%40>,

> > > "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry for this delay.I do not know how i have missed this

> > > > > mail.Prafullajis reply made me see this!!.How can i miss this:)).

> > > > >

> > > > > Your mail is discussing a very serious issue called- what

> > > > > is ''aham'' and it needs to be explained in detail(if i am able to

> > > > > explain properly) and will do it later.Search - on who is aham is

> > > > > well explained in your mail.

> > > > >

> > > > > But to be honest your statement Rahu is this ''aham'' as it is a

> > > > > GREY AREA'' ,did make me laugh.why?

> > > > >

> > > > > As i have said before, Rahu is considered as a ''VazhiChenda''(a

> > > > > road side drum ,all can bang).Similarly is this fair to lean all

> > > > bad

> > > > > things and grey areas on Rahu!!.I will explain the meaning of Mada

> > > > > in another mail,possibly ending our debates,supporting

> > > > > Chandrashekhar jis view and Visti ji may correct his article if he

> > > > > wish.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> <%40>,

> > > "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As I promised yesterday, i am jotting down my nascent, quite

> > > > > recent

> > > > > > (:--)) and perhaps highly confused understanding of "aham" and

> > > > > hope

> > > > > > for corrections, especially from respected Ranjanji and Prafulla

> > > > > ji.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As you have asked, who is "I" and what is "I", that gives rise

> > > > to

> > > > > > actions/reactions. It is not the body, because as the Chandala

> > > > > said

> > > > > > to Shankara, body is jada and can not act on its own. Is it

> > > > soul,

> > > > > > but the Soul is actionless. so, aham can neither be body nor the

> > > > > > soul.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "aham" is the inherent quality/ability of a being, on which

> > > > basis

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is distiguished/reckoned separate from others. For example, to

> > > > > name

> > > > > > a few, Ocean /Water has the quality of ebb & flow, agni has the

> > > > > > ability to burn, birds have the capacity to fly etc. These basic

> > > > > > abilities distinguish them from others and give them an

> > > > > > distinctive/individual identity (aham).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Among birds also there must be certain features peculiar to

> > > > > certain

> > > > > > species which set them apart from others. So is the case with

> > > > > > animals and humans. Infact, it is the case with all the

> > > > creation,

> > > > > > which is slotted into various categories, though it's all

> > > > emanated

> > > > > > from the same seed/beeja. It's the bhedabhraanthi roopa jnaanam..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Extending the same argument, perhaps it's the case with the

> > > > > > different organs of the body too. They all have their appointed

> > > > > > abilities which can not be swapped with others. Brain has the

> > > > > > ability to coordinate all the processes happening in the body,

> > > > > while

> > > > > > legs have the ability to transport the body. Neither can do the

> > > > > > other's job and each has it's own place and importance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If legs accuse the "brain" of aristocracy/inflated ego because

> > > > it

> > > > > > has been accorded a higher/more prominent place in the body, is

> > > > it

> > > > > > correct/fair? Suppose all the organs in the body want to control

> > > > > the

> > > > > > processes in the body, in the name of "samabhavana", will the

> > > > body

> > > > > > be able to function at all? The reverse also holds good:--))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > God has given all beings a distinctive "talent"/identity (ego),

> > > > > and

> > > > > > how does this get manifested? It's through Shakti (ahanta),

> > > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > a transforming/interactive aspect of Brahman, different species

> > > > > are

> > > > > > able to demonstrate/maintain their respective identities.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But when we forget that we are part of the Supreme Soul, and

> > > > > mistake

> > > > > > this temporary "address" as the real/permanent thing, the

> > > > problems

> > > > > > crop up, and as you said, various attachments / aberrations seep

> > > > > in.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then is the time for us to step on this illusion and push it

> > > > down

> > > > > > (however good it may be for material life), ruthlessly pierce

> > > > the

> > > > > > eye of attachment, so that the "jeeva" can understand that he's

> > > > in

> > > > > > the true sense "Trivikrama"!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu represents this "aham" because

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1)it's a grey area:--))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2)it's the same principle, which is manifested differently in

> > > > > > different beings, according to their species/categories.

> > > > Similarly

> > > > > > Rahu takes on the characteristics of the house lords/conjoined

> > > > > > planets, and gives different results.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3)Also, Rahu represents "head" (including face, please!) which

> > > > > > represents the main "identity" & ability of a person.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure i have missed out on many things. Hope i made at least

> > > > > > some sense:--))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is ''mine'', is a dual feeling - Lord tells Arjuna -

> > > > nothing

> > > > > > > belongs

> > > > > > > > to you!!. As long as a feeling of mine is present, there

> is a

> > > > > > > > separate, identity involved. This separate ''i'' is called

> > > > EGO

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > Ahamkar.This separate identity brings in Pride. For example

> > > > a

> > > > > > King

> > > > > > > > might think ''i'' am strong, ''my'' army, 'my' wealth etc

> > > > > > > resulting in

> > > > > > > > Pride.Rahu is neither this ''i''(Ego) nor the Pride.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Then who is ''i'' & who is Rahu?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Brahman is the base.Maya for Brahman is Mind for

> > > > Atman.Though

> > > > > > > Atman is

> > > > > > > > the same as Brahman,due to our dual feeling and for the

> > > > > purpose

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > knowing who we are -we will assume it as an undivided but

> > > > part

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Brahman.It is the effect of Maya/Mind.i happens due to

> > > > > > > superimposition

> > > > > > > > of atman and mind(internal organ) in both ways as per

> > > > > Sankara.The

> > > > > > > > jeevatma represented by Sun happening to be the first entry

> > > > as

> > > > > > far

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > humanbeing is considered is viewed as a doer by mind.Atma

> > > > as

> > > > > > well

> > > > > > > > follows mind resulting in a cycle.The resulting dual feeling

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > me/mine is ''ï¿½''.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As long as we are within the clutches of Time, we have Death

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > Birth.KalaSarpam is that factor(formed through contact

> > > > between

> > > > > > > > atma/mana padhas(luni/solar paths) w.r to earth) making us

> > > > > > clutch

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > to TIME/SPACE.This clutch results in attachment.Thus

> > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > nothing but a kind of addiction,magnetic pull which is

> > > > > enhancing

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > already present asscoiation with vishayas.Rahu is just

> > > > keeping

> > > > > > > > together the already manifested superimposition

> > > > (Atma/Mind).The

> > > > > > > level

> > > > > > > > of Unmada depends on the state of mind or in astrology the

> > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > > > moon and further associations.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rahu enhancing(attachment) the significations of Venus does

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > it a Venus!!!!.Similarly jeevatma is already in a cage(not

> > > > > > because

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Rahu).Rahu is not jeevatma or ''I''.Neither before

> > > > realization

> > > > > > nor

> > > > > > > > after, Rahu is ''I''.After realization ,jeevatma identifies

> > > > > > itself

> > > > > > > > with the Supreme(unsullied).Rahu release the clutch or in

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > words

> > > > > > > > the gear is in neutral:-).Shankara burns Kamadeva.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Detachment is a reversal and hence sage says one should

> > > > think

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > feet

> > > > > > > > through Meena/Rahu.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thus we have tried to understand what is Rahu,what is

> > > > > EGO ,what

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > pride.They are three different entities.Now please tell me

> > > > > what

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > Mada? - Is it 'I', Is it Pride or Is it - Intoxicated

> > > > illusion

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > context?.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In reality there is only Brahman.But ignorance due to maya

> > > > > (which

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the imagination of lord(Saguna Roopa) surrounding him(but

> > > > part

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > him),brings in all these.Rahu as Kaala Sarpam acts as a

> > > > > catalyst

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > clutch attaching one to earth -linking Time and space.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If we have no thoughts in our mind and if the mind is still

> > > > (if

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > possible) then it is pindanda roopa of nirgun

> brahman.Kind of

> > > > > > > > Samadhi.When realization happens one reailizes who he is.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thus if think of creation - When imagination arise space is

> > > > > > created

> > > > > > > > and time is elapsed(kala sarpam comes into picture).Brahman

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > Universe is similar.This is my humble beginning towards

> > > > > > > understanding

> > > > > > > > the sublime and far TRUTH.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> <%40>

> <%40>,

> > > "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thinking in retrospect, as I have written in the mail to

> > > > > > > > > Chandrasekhar ji, perhaps we are wrong in interpreting

> > > > > > > that "ego" is

> > > > > > > > > found only in some people. If we interpret

> > > > dispassionately,

> > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > Kalyan Varma has been RIGHTLY saying all along that ego (

> > > > > > > necessary

> > > > > > > > > for perpetuation of Creation) is present in every being,

> > > > as

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > soul/mind or happiness/grief are present, yet I don't find

> > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > fighting about them. we need to accept that I have ego,

> > > > you

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > ego, chandrasekhar ji has ego...all of us have it, perhaps

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > different degrees.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > How wrong was I to think that "ego" is peculiar only to

> > > > some

> > > > > > > > > people!! How wrong was i to think that we are

> > > > > > exceptions! "Ego"

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > part of the natural state of every individual...like the

> > > > > > > kundalini

> > > > > > > > > residing in mooladhara of every one.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Only a blessed few succeed in reversing this ego, in

> > > > > > dissolving

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > separateness. They cross this Vishnu Maaya and reach a

> > > > state

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Realization.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks for helping me reach this humbling yet exhilerating

> > > > > > > > > understanding. I have truly learnt something today.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> <%40>

> <%40>,

> > > "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Only Kalyan Varma is mentioning.Kalyan Varma included

> > > > > > > > > > > the illusionary factor which can catalyse all of the

> > > > > above

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > result

> > > > > > > > > > > in dukham.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I must remind you that The Kalyana Varma

> > > > > reference

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > chosen by me. It was chosen by Chandrasekhar ji and

> > > > > > certified

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > impeccable.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me if any other astro-book says that Saturn

> > > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > > > contrary results (except in 8th house)? I do not recall

> > > > > > > > > > Parashara/Varahamihira saying it. If you can find it,

> > > > > please

> > > > > > > let

> > > > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > know.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I must honestly say that Parashara/Varahamihira do not

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > about Rahu representing "mada". But have they explicitly

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > thing about Sun having "ego" either? Were we not drawing

> > > > > > > > > convoluted

> > > > > > > > > > conclusions then?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Should we quote a book when it suits us and dump it when

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > doesn't?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep, please do not think that I am championing

> > > > either

> > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu. I am sure you have read the mail where I said that

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > also capable of giving great spirituality when involved

> > > > in

> > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > > yogas. Infact what I have been fighting for all these

> > > > days

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > fair treatment of all planets.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus we have to look for the meaning suiting the

> > > > > > context.Why

> > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > just one among the shad ripus?Why not

> > > > > > > lust,kaama,moha,krodha?

> > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > not any of these.He makes us have all these.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: You are very correct. Rahu is the generator

> > > > > of "I"-

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > false

> > > > > > > > > > feeling as a separate entity, which is the basis of ego

> > > > > (as

> > > > > > > > > > defined/argued by you in the earlier mails). This

> > > > feeling

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > the basis of the shadripus which are based on one

> > > > > individual

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > different from other.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sun called as Atma karaka

> > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for lagna in astrology.Am i wrong? Once he

> > > > > > enters

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > > > he is trapped and just wanders wherever the mind is

> > > > > > > > > taking ,until

> > > > > > > > > > self

> > > > > > > > > > > realization.Am i wrong?What is BHagavatham mentioning

> > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > > > soul and its plight.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rahu does not enter on its own nor is it a feeling

> > > > > > > of ''I''.It

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > our assumption.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Since we are talking about astrology, can you

> > > > > tell

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > why "kumbha" (pindanda)has been given the dual lordship

> > > > by

> > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > and Rahu? Why does birth take place? Because of karma

> > > > > > (Saturn)

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > unsatisfied kaama (Rahu) or because of aatma? If birth

> > > > > takes

> > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > because of aatma, why should Aatma be unhappy or feel

> > > > > > trapped

> > > > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > > body? I request you to reflect on these and answer.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why is Rahu called "Kaala sarpam" and represents Time?

> > > > > Does

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > day/night? does he cause seasons? Then why? It's because

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > causes

> > > > > > > > > > the interminable birth cycle.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > According to your own/Chandrasekhar ji's previous e-

> > > > > > > mails, "ego"

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > a false feeling of differentiation. Now you yourself

> > > > have

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > that " Rahu the intoxication or illusion surrounding us

> > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > smoky/obscurant idea".

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I agree with all that you say. Now putting all this

> > > > > > together,

> > > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > tell me if Rahu does not give a

> > > > > illusiory/intoxicated/false

> > > > > > > idea

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Btw, I really appreciate the way you research and i

> > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > way you feel about Rahu. I again reiterate that I have

> > > > > > nothing

> > > > > > > > > > against Rahu...my own Rahu dasa is excellent and is

> > > > > bringing

> > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > immense spiritual benefits, like the present

> discussion:-

> > > > -

> > > > > ))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> <%40>

> <%40>,

> > > "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji & Pradeep ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I recollect writing in my previous e-mails, that the

> > > > > > > shloka

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saravali talks about the inner qualities of an

> > > > > > > > > > > > individual/kalapurusha. Does the word "mada" imply

> > > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > an inner quality? Does the word "intoxication"

> > > > belong

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > context, in that group?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think either of you responded to that.

> > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > missed

> > > > > > > > > > > > it out in the avalanche of e-mails:--))

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can i have your response(s) please?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> <%40>

> <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pride is different from ego. Like it or not Mada

> > > > > does

> > > > > > > mean

> > > > > > > > > > > > intoxication

> > > > > > > > > > > > > or lust. The Kama that is referred to relates to

> > > > > > kaamana

> > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > > > > desires for things possessed by others. That is

> > > > what

> > > > > > > Asteya,

> > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamas of Hatha yogas refer to.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are talking about auspiciousness or other wise

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > dormant

> > > > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > awakened Kundalini. As I said all scriptures can

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > one wants to do that. But that does not serve any

> > > > > > > purpose. I

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > go into what exactly is meant by Vidya and Avidya

> > > > > > > related to

> > > > > > > > > > Maa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > I have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > not yet seen any Pramana, in the form of a shloka,

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > proposition that dormant Kundalini is inauspicious

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > awakened

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kundalini is auspicious so far. I have already

> > > > > posted

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > way

> > > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > generation has been taught to accept an argument,

> > > > so

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > repeat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > it here.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > But I will not resort to conjectures and would

> > > > like

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > quote

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rudrayamala tantra about the swarUpa of dormant

> > > > > > > Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > > Being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > graduate in sanskrit, I am sure I will not have to

> > > > > > > translate

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > for you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Aaxare prdevta ï¿½ï¿½jntax> kï¿½{flI devta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ï¿½dhï¿½re paradevatï¿½ bhavrajanatï¿½dhaï¿½ kuï¿½ï¿½alï¿½ devatï¿½

> > > > > > > > > > > > > devanamixdevta iï¿½jgtamanNdpuï¿½iSwta,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > devï¿½nï¿½madhidevatï¿½ trijagatï¿½mï¿½nandapuï¿½jasthitï¿½|

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mUlaxarinvaisnI iï¿½rm[i ya }ainnI mailnI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mï¿½lï¿½dhï¿½ranivï¿½sinï¿½ triramaï¿½ï¿½ yï¿½ jï¿½ï¿½ninï¿½ mï¿½linï¿½

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sa me mat&mnuiSwta kï¿½lpwanNdEkbIjanna.32,21.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sï¿½ me mï¿½tï¿½manusthitï¿½

> > > > > kulapathï¿½nandaikabï¿½jï¿½nanï¿½||32|21||

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you must have some quote to support your

> > > > > > > > > contention.

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > like to see the shloka, as against conjectures, so

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > > improve

> > > > > > > > > > > > > upon my knowledge of the swarupaa of Kundalini.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand your reluctance to support your

> > > > > > > > > propositions

> > > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > suitable pramanas. I am sorry if I have hurt you

> > > > by

> > > > > > > pointing

> > > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > inconsistency in the way you treated Surya and

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > combinations

> > > > > > > > > > > > in two

> > > > > > > > > > > > > different chart as stand out combinations only.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I had no intention to cause any hurt to you and if

> > > > I

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > done

> > > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > inadvertently I crave your pardon.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shadripus are kaama (lust), krodha (anger),

> > > > > > lobha

> > > > > > > > > > (greed),

> > > > > > > > > > > > moha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (attachment, delusion), mada (pride) and

> > > > maatsarya

> > > > > > > > > (jealousy)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If "mada" means "lust" what does "kaama" imply

> > > > > among

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shadripus? "Mada" signifies one who is

> > > > > > > intoxicated/drunk

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > power/self-grandeur (pride/ego).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mother is known as "Vidya and avidya swaroopini"

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciation of Mother includes understanding of

> > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > facets. As

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shakti, She respresents raw power which can be

> > > > > > routed

> > > > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > deeds as well as bad deeds. Are both ends the

> > > > > same?

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > wisdom,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > required to put this immense shakti to good use,

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shiva, hence the union of Shiva and Parvati,

> > > > > wisdom

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > power, is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > said to be auspicious because it ensures the

> > > > > > > > > > correct/judicious

> > > > > > > > > > > > end

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of shakti. Hence the orientation of Shakti

> > > > is

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > important.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always said that Soorya is both sattwik and

> > > > > krura.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > said all planets, including Jupiter, can give

> > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > > results, if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are functionally empowered to do so. You

> > > > can

> > > > > > > refer to

> > > > > > > > > > all my

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > previous mails to confirm this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, Truth is much more important than winning

> > > > or

> > > > > > > losing an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument. All discussions must proceed as an

> > > > > > > exploration

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebration of Truth. When this is not the case,

> > > > I

> > > > > > see

> > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > > purpose in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > continuing these discussions.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having Icchamrityu and dying at an early age

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > > operating

> > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > levels. Bhishma had Iccha Mrityu but did not

> > > > die

> > > > > > > young.

> > > > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try to mix the issues. If you have read

> > > > > Swamiji's

> > > > > > > > > > biography you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that he fell sick many times despite of

> > > > > > > apparent

> > > > > > > > > > robust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > physique.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commenting on Shani in 4th for Rama's chart

> > > > > > confirms

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of giving Vipareeta results. I did not

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > expected

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > analyze the entire chart. By the way if there

> > > > is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > Kuja

> > > > > > > > > > dosha

> > > > > > > > > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that by itself give a Divine wife? Please do

> > > > not

> > > > > > > bring

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > devotion to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Rama (and we both have that) into

> > > > > > astrological

> > > > > > > > > > analysis of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > his chart.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bringing in the dashas when the discussions

> > > > are

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > effects

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will only lead the discussion to no where. The

> > > > > two

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > separately as we are not trying to time an

> > > > event

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > trying

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the effects on bhavas occupied.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi in Ramana Maharshi's chart you

> > > > have

> > > > > > > perhaps

> > > > > > > > > > > > forgotten

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying Kuja vat Ketu. look at the Ketu deha in

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > perspective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and let

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me know your views. And if by the way you read

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > mail,

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about mars being killer for him, only

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being 3rd lord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also could you explain why Sun being Atma and

> > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > > > beneficent as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have claimed all along in the thread on the

> > > > > topic,

> > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahadasha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prove to be Killer to Ramana Maharshi?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, remember that in Swami

> > > > > > > Vivekananda's

> > > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 9th occupying the lagna and causing a

> > > > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > > > Raj

> > > > > > > > > > > > yoga. At

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time if you thin how long the Swamiji

> > > > lived,

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > may

> > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about saying that it did not act as

> > > > > Mahakrura.

> > > > > > > Think

> > > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > what it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the 7th bhava of Swamiji, also, before

> > > > > > > declaring

> > > > > > > > > > that it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > became

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shubha or less malefic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: I think Swamiji had an icchamrityu

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dass

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operating on 4th July 1902, I observe that

> > > > he

> > > > > > > passed

> > > > > > > > > > away in

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup-Ket-Sat-Sat.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup MD: 1893-02-09 (1:35:30 pm) - 1909-02-10

> > > > > > > (3:59:13

> > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ven AD: 1900-12-25 (10:03:30 am) - 1903-08-

> > > > 27

> > > > > > > (4:48:54

> > > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jup PD: 1902-05-02 (1:42:07 pm) - 1902-09-12

> > > > > > > (10:43:55

> > > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket SD: 1902-06-29 (9:11:48 am) - 1902-07-07

> > > > > > > (5:06:28

> > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat PAD: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-

> > > > 06

> > > > > > > (2:29:24

> > > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat: 1902-07-04 (8:44:27 pm) - 1902-07-05

> > > > > > (1:27:03

> > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter is in 2nd house from Moon, Venus is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and is posited in 2nd from lagna, Ketu is in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > Venus

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives the results of Venus and Saturn is the

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna....all are marakas. the maraka

> > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > stronger

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Moon, and it's the cause of his early

> > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see where Sun comes into all this..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I agree that Sun, as AK aspecting

> > > > 7th

> > > > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parivraja tendencies. But can you ignore the

> > > > > > > influence

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moon and 4th house, occuring in the 10th

> > > > > house?

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > am

> > > > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun would have given him parivraja yoga:--))

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > raja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yoga and the strong soul-level impact he

> > > > > created

> > > > > > > > > > wherever he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > went.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or if you like look at what happened to the

> > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava of Lord Rama with exalted Mars in

> > > > the

> > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars in 7th gives kuja dosha, and I think

> > > > the

> > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > Mars in

> > > > > > > > > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave him an exalted wife like Sita. You have

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > commented

> > > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exalted Saturn in 4th house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In each of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example provided by you look at the bhava

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > occupy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (barring Saturn, for reasons already

> > > > stated

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > previous

> > > > > > > > > > > > mail),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking at the charts as belonging to

> > > > great

> > > > > > > people,

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your mind as to the truth or otherwise of

> > > > > what

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > > > Did

> > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi died following a malignant

> > > > > > > sarcoma

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > left

> > > > > > > > > > > > hand

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is karaka for the 3rd bhava in 8th in his

> > > > > > chart,

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > exaltation. Do

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think Mars gave him benevolent results?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I also request you to examine

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sequences with an open mind. Sun is the 3rd

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Moon

> > > > > > > > > > > > (AK) &

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th lord from lagna in Sri Ramana's chart,

> > > > > rahu

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gives Sun'/Saturn's/Jupiter's effects...all

> > > > of

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > point to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusthanas, Saturn is a maraka in 7th house

> > > > and

> > > > > > > ketu

> > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effects of Moon/Mercury/mars. Mar's effect,

> > > > if

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > all,

> > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indirect, and he was not the killer.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sun MD: 1949-02-03 (1:02:22 am) - 1955-02-03

> > > > > > > (2:05:32

> > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah AD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1951-02-21

> > > > > > > (8:49:14

> > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rah PD: 1950-03-29 (3:54:04 am) - 1950-05-18

> > > > > > > (12:04:47

> > > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat SD: 1950-04-12 (3:37:16 am) - 1950-04-20

> > > > > > > (12:18:02

> > > > > > > > > > am)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket PAD: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-

> > > > 14

> > > > > > > > > (11:08:26

> > > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deha-antardasas in this PAD:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ket: 1950-04-14 (12:08:34 pm) - 1950-04-14

> > > > > > > (12:47:04

> > > > > > > > > pm)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what stands out is the fact that the

> > > > > > dasa

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conjoined Moon brought about death. I think

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > > willed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > death.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can a planet give results in a dasa totally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > unrelated/unassociated

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with itself? I request you to consider the

> > > > > above

> > > > > > > > > > objectively.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will talk about the other charts/issues in

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > next

> > > > > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paramhans Ramkrishna's chart,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know where you find Mars strong

> > > > as

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debilitation in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsha gives results of debility even

> > > > when

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > exaltation

> > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart. In case of Saturn Viparitam shane

> > > > > > smritam

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned by me, in earlier mail.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi: Sir, I myself have not considered

> > > > > > > Mars/Venus

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thakur's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart because they are debilitated. Please

> > > > go

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. I was talking about Saturn and Rahu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Shri Aurobindo, I trust you are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware of his revolutionary background and

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > editor

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paper

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Vande Mataram" not much known for its

> > > > soft

> > > > > > > language.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with strong Malefics

> > > > giving

> > > > > > > P.M.

> > > > > > > > > > Yogas.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > graha is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of 12 variations of a P.M. Yoga

> > > > > > > attributed

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > least. It would only be naive to imagine

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results as indicated by Parashara or all

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > Pancha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would only rule over different parts of

> > > > > India

> > > > > > > > > (barring

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saturn),

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the sage said so. The sages gave

> > > > us

> > > > > > > > > principles

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expected us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to apply them to real life horoscope using

> > > > > > > Viveka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would gladly give you the shloka giving

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > reference to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Viparita---Shane..." it is from an old

> > > > > > classic

> > > > > > > > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers, but as you do not seem to

> > > > > accept

> > > > > > > > > anything

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not fit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in with what, you think. is said by Dr.

> > > > > Raman,

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in futility. should you yet want the

> > > > shloka

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > course

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glad to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give it to you.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave namah

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to be disagreeing with Shri

> > > > B.V.

> > > > > > > Raman

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether malefic or benefics give good

> > > > > > results,

> > > > > > > > > while

> > > > > > > > > > weak

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give bad results. Perhaps you also

> > > > > disagree

> > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving mahapurusha yogas. Isn't it

> > > > > contrary

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts teach?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, here are a few examples, where I

> > > > > find

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefics

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have neither made the natives krura nor

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > significations

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffered.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda: strong sun in lagna

> > > > and

> > > > > > > mars in

> > > > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo: Strong Sun in 2nd house.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maharshi Mahesh yogi: exalted Mars in

> > > > > lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramana Maharshi: strong Mars in 8th

> house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Exalted

> > > > Saturn

> > > > > > > (9H)

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4H).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Venus are also exalted in rasi,

> > > > while

> > > > > > > > > > debilitated in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > navamsa.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, can you give me the reference

> > > > > > > for "vipareetam

> > > > > > > > > > shaneH

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sritam"?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it, by any chance, refer to

> > > > Saturn's

> > > > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being beneficial?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy that you agree strong Saturn

> > > > > > gives

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell me from where the saying is

> > > > > > > because i

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > like to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > read it up myself and understand.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46%

> > > > > 40.co.uk>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Krura planets the saying is,

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strength the Krura grahas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more Krura

> ...

>

> [Message clipped]

September 22, 2006

Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi and Others

Responses to Questions:

Now please tell me whether mind is part of body or not?If yes who is

getting liberation ?Mind?

There is liberation from the sense of bondage. Not that actual bondage has

taken place. One's imagination is not a true bondage!

Identifying oneself with body and mind is duality so who is identiying?

The ego thought identifies itself with the body and the mind. In light of

consciousness the thought is coignized.

Who is having the false apprehension?

The ego self in light of Consciousness is having this false apprehension.

Mind is an instrument like body.Instrument does not need liberation.It

is actually a two way process.Mind needs jeevatma to function and

jeevatma falsely identifies itself with the very mind and body which

are running because of it.

In your thinking, the Jeevatma is separate from an infinite, undivided

Brahman and it deludes itself. That suggests Brahman has is divided. Which

is wrong. Furthermore, that suggests that Jeevatma lives separately from

Brahman as its part or something and connects with later, which is false

again as there is no place where Brahman is not. Non-dual means it is

non-dual right now, whether you realize it or not. There is no becoming

here! If something is not realized, it is question of discovering it..and

that of undergoing a change in state!

Mind needs Atman since Atman enlivens it. Atman isn't identified with it.

Since there is ignorance of the Real Nature of the Self, one decides that

one is limited.

Now if you ask what is the cause of this ignorance, then you would have to

prove its existence as separate from Brahman. Else it only exists as an

imagination.

Please understand that duality is for the jivatma under the influence

of Maya.Maya is at his Will.It is his desire.Division is a phenomenon

like cell division.This is at his will.Though he is undivided there is

and expansive division with no change happening to his nature.

Again the division, multiplication, addition and subtraction is mere

imagination. How can anything undivided and infinite undergo any change?

Change happens in position or state. Both are related to Time and Space.

Brahman is beyond the same. Even to suggest the same is to go against the

words of the Vedas. The Jivatman refers to the ego self which thinks it is

conscious. You are faltering in the very definition of Jivatman.

Dwaita bhava is for whom?How is bhava possile? Do you beleive in

rebirth?What happens to jivatma and mind after

death?Is it possible to have two souls in a body -say an extra

duratma?Have you ever heard of a soul conversing to another living

being?Sidhas can listen to the words of soul and i know such a person

very well.I was sitting next to Him while he was receiving such a

signal from another soul sitting nearby.

Life means no death. Can, then, there be any death to life? What dies (is

given up) is only the body. The body also does not die but merges back into

its original five elements. First the Fire goes from the body and the body

turns cold. Second the air goes as body starts to smell. Third the water

goes as body starts to ooze out its liquids. Forth the Earth goes as the

material layer merges back with the rest of the Earth. With that the

separate space taken up by the body is given up too. So Space also goes.

The sookshma sarira then takes up another body to carry on its efforts

towards understanding the Self. The Atman does not undergo a change in the

same. If electricity is flowing through all the wires and different

equipment, does it undergo a change whether you connect a television or a

fan? (do not extend the example).

One may know of anybody and what difference does it make to the nature of

the Atman. One may be talking to sookshma sariras, etc. Atman is everywhere,

it can enliven that too. That does not prove anything.

One may imagine the Dwaita but must remember the Advaita. Moreover, by

imagining that there is no gravity, one does not fly. What is, is. The Truth

is here and now, whether one realizes it or not.

One should make efforts in realizing it rather than needless talk or

strengthening further imaginations.

Since this discussion is going nowhere, this is my last post on the topic