Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 dear ashutoshji let me clarify to you and to the group that i have nothing personal against you and my whole criticism is targeted on your inaction in earlier episode and instat action in current episode. since many members have expressed their unhappiness and you too invited any member to take up the responsibility of moderating the group, i offer myself to moderate this group and, if the group owner entrusts this responsibility and the members have no objection, my moderatorship would be limited to the following activities: 1. remove or delete spam mails such as advertisements, pornos, virus mails etc. 2. answer all those queries which are not answered by any member and the querent post reminders. 3. inform the member publicly about any protests or hurt feelings received against that member. 4. if any member hurts too much and too many complaints pour against him, i will ONLY PLACE HIM UNDER MODERATION and still approve all good mails and delete only objectionable mails. 5. criticism of any person or any country is allowed IF IT IS BASED ON FACTS, SUBSTANTIATED BY REFERENCES. 6. allow non-jyotish content but related to spirituality or self realisation as well since this is a discussion group to impart knoweldge on all subjects allied to astrology. 7. being a moderator, i never sell myself or my services in this group. outside the group and in private domain, i have full freedom. 8. will resign instantly if any member objects to my moderatorship based on facts. with best wishes pandit arjun , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh wrote: > > Dear all, > > The action to ban Bhaskar was not born out of impatience. There is a valid reason behind it. > > There was the option of warning him. But, knowing the 'short-fuse' volatile nature of Bhaskar, what do you think would have been his reaction. The one who has personally attacked almost every contributing member in this group, would have politely accepted the warning? > > His words on my chat were," Main tab tak kisi ka kuchh nahin bigadta jab tak woh mera kuchh na bigade." meaning, "I do not harm anyone unless he harms me." This despite the fact that I was not even responding to him. Sensing further attacks from him, I ignored him from my messenger. > > Not to go too far, Bhaskar had indirectly attacked RRji yesterday in one of his mails. First he creates all kinds of angry moods, finds reasons to fight from other people's words and then when the water crosses his head, he cools down. This kind Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality has disturbed the peace in this group many times. He clearly shows that no one can point out his mistakes. He takes even simple advices as personal attacks. What can one do with a person who has a bare sword in his hand and is always ready to fight. > > If you go through the mails regarding Bhaskar's negative opinions about one nation, you will see that everyone was very polite and logical with him, but all his replies are full of will to fight and argue. He grew more and more adamant with each mail. Most of the members here see it as nothing abnormal because the nation in question has had bad relations with India. But, imagine if India and Bangladesh have some conflicts, should all Indians leave this group just because it is owned by an astrologer from Bangladesh. > > "Swadeshe pujyete raja, vidvan sarvatra pujyate" While the kings are respected in their own nations, the scholarly ones get respect all over the world. We cannot allow the personal, national, religious biases to hinder the growth of knowledge. > > The warnings are given when one has done a mistake and has the will to amend it. But, when one is ready with a sword to fight it out till the end, adamantly proving his own point again and again, the warnings only serve to incite him and his vociferousness. > > > Bhaskar's case is an exception. This is not applicable to everyone. Most of the members in this group have very less frequencies of angry outbursts. Everyone cannot and will not be treated in same way. > > > About my commercial motives. Bhaskar has never and can never be a challenge to me. Take it as my ego or whatever, I do not feel threatened by anyone's astrological powers in this group. My clientage is not here. Please remember it. > > It was Bhaskar who has been raising the issue of commercialisation every time. Indirectly or directly he has been showing his own needs to earn money from astrology. > > I have always maintained that I am a full time professional astrologer but I have never directly or indirectly seeked clients from this group. I had started using the signature line proclaiming my professional status only to keep the free advice seekers away from my private id. Despite that I receive around 15 mails each day which I have to ignore, warn or just delete. If you notice, I have not been using my signature line since past few weeks. My contributions have also gone down. > > Bhaskar may be a good astrologer, but he has some serious drawbacks. He does not know where to stop. An astrologer is respected not only for his knowledge but for his wisdom too. There is a big difference between knowledge and wisdom. Without wisdom knowledge can be very harmfull. > > An emotionally uncontrolled astrologer can be like a bull in a china shop. Irresponsible words, acts, rash motives and all, will be there. A doctor and an astrologer should have such a behaviour that half of the patient's or client's worries are reduced just by seeing him. A personally disturbed astrologer cannot properly guide anyone on right path. > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was taken not out of any personal grievances, but due to his own rash behaviour over last few months. We are in a group which is not ruled, governed, set by Indians only. It is a global group. Showing negative opinion for any perticular nation or religion amounts to striking at the very root of this group's foundation. The non-Indian members can get a feeling that tomorrow they can be discriminated against too. This will promt them not to contribute here any more. > > Democracy does not mean a free for all. There has to be some control somewhere. > > I say again, Bhaskar's case is an exception. He could not be warned, knowing his nature of retaliation. To avoid further ugly scenes and mutual angry dialogues, he had to be removed. > > Even before I could inform the group about his removal one member sent out his outcry. I sense that there is a feeling of insecurity among the contributing group members. But, those who know me and Tanvir are assured that we will take an action only as and when needed and up to the required intensity only. It is unfortunate that Bhaskar had to be removed. He still has the option open to apologise to whole group for his statements and he will be welcomed back with open arms. > > I have taken this action not as Astrologer Ashutosh, but as Moderator Ashutosh. Being a moderator is not in my best interests as a conributing astrologer. On 'valist' my contributions have dwindled after I was appointed moderator by Das Goravani. Now, I have to weigh all my words and statements thrice before sending out any post. Any action or word of mine can be taken as autocratic or full of self-interest. > > > If anyone feels that he can take up the responsibility of moderating this group without hurting anyone's feelings, he is welcome to take my place. I will be very happy to be just an astrologer contributer. > > > Best regards, > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > - > Tanvir Chowdhury > > Saturday, 16 September, 2006 00:20 > Current situation > > > Dear all, > > It is clear that there are some heat, or discussion on this forum > about the recent banning of > > Bhaskar Ji by newly appointed moderator Ashutosh Ji. (For everyone's > information, whoever might be mistaking, I did not ban Bhaskar Ji; > Ashutosh Ji did.) So I wanted to add my two bits of my input here. > We need to clarify a lot of things. > > Dear Arjun Ji, in one post you have written, > > "it is sad to note that tanvirji ignored the request of ALL MEMBERS > to give a warning first before banning a member." > > I have not ignored any request. I am very busy about my personal > life and unfortunately cannot concentrate about the forum that much > to precisely monitor what is going on and I believe that even > missing ONE message might lead a moderator to take a wrong decision. > That's why I have appointed Ashutosh Ji as a new moderator, for few > reasons : He is a good astrologer, this is needed for a moderator > because he has to resist the filths that comes as astrology (Like I > believe I have done the correct when I banned SA from this forum). > secondly so far I have known him, I watch him as a mature, tolerant, > logical and unbiased person, which is needed for moderation. The > last two qualities are very needed. (Of course many I know will > disagre about his tolerance and maturity for the recent banning, of > course views differ.) And also that he showed the concern about > group by writing me personally... often there are arguments beyond > the limit, and even spam mails, porn advertisements but no one wrote > to me but now at least he did. > > Now as the banning of Prashant Kumar Ji, I had received a few > complaints about him and as I did not follow the posts regularly I > recognized the complaints (as there was more than one person > compaining) and so banned him. I could NOT give a warning because it > would need further monitoring which I was unable of doing. And I did > know that my decision might be wrong AND that is the reason I asked > freely about your opinion and as soon as I had received positive > feedback, I had removed the ban and requested him to join again. Had > I investigated the matter more, or thought my decision to be final, > I would not have asked for your comments / votes. But I knew that I > might be wrong that is why I kept the room for being flexible. > > Personally I am always against of banning and the most I do (In > general) is to disable one's posting and still let him/her be in the > forum. > > Here I have given the power to Ashutosh Ji to ban someone because if > someone has given some responsibility he must be given the power and > authority otherwise he cannot carry out his job. > > I believe Ashutosh Ji will use his authority and decisions with > tolerance and maturity, of course and I believe you all will > cooperate him in this matter. > > He might as well consider the step by step procedure suggested by > you as well. Personally I am in favour of using this steps before > banning someone. However, as I have given HIM the responsibility, I > would like to let HIM decide and not burden my own style on him. > > I also feel that a message should be delivered announcing the ban of > the member and explaining the reasons, after the ban is executed. > > Regarding financial interests about astrology, I do not think it to > be bad. A person might be thinking that his wisdom, knowledge or > whatever he has is worth selling, if others are willing to buy. > Giving free readings cannot assure that one is noble. One can be > very fair even after offering only paid readings and one can be a > deceiver / unethical even through free readings. I personally really > do not remember when for the last time I had replied to a mail > requesting free reading. It is of course more than six months, or > even close to a year. So, will people say that I am a businessman? > Some will, surely. But they will NOT do anymore after learning that > one person is after me for a PAID READING for more than 4-5 months > and another person is on the queue for one month and another is for > 20 days or so. All paid readings, from where I would earn money. > > So it is all about being busy, and the reading needs mental energy, > some deep insight, that has to come from it's own. Otherwise, I do > NOT do readings, no one can even make me. People can also criticize > on my high prices of readings ($100-200, on average $150 or > somewhere) but it's just that I feel that my knowledge and labour > deserves that payment, I am in favour of working less but when I > work, I work good. For God's grace there is no complaint / > dissatisfaction from any of my paid customers as of yet. And many > trash things are going on around as astrology, with high prices, > just for their BIG NAMES and BIG GROUPS, and I know about their > knowledge fairly enough, so my ethics does not let me charge small. > > So anyone can call me businessman too... but I know I am enough > strong financially and have no dependency on the money earned from > net. > > Anyway. > > Thanks for everyone, for your voices and being a part of JR family. > > Regards > Tanvir > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Ashutosh ji, You have said, " If anyone feels that he can take up the responsibility of moderating this group without hurting anyone's feelings, he is welcome to take my place. I will be very happy to be just an astrologer contributer." No body is indispensable. I suggest Pt. Arjun be requested to take this responsibility. With naman to all gurujan, Varun Trivedi , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh wrote: > > Dear all, > > The action to ban Bhaskar was not born out of impatience. There is a valid reason behind it. > > There was the option of warning him. But, knowing the 'short-fuse' volatile nature of Bhaskar, what do you think would have been his reaction. The one who has personally attacked almost every contributing member in this group, would have politely accepted the warning? > > His words on my chat were," Main tab tak kisi ka kuchh nahin bigadta jab tak woh mera kuchh na bigade." meaning, "I do not harm anyone unless he harms me." This despite the fact that I was not even responding to him. Sensing further attacks from him, I ignored him from my messenger. > > Not to go too far, Bhaskar had indirectly attacked RRji yesterday in one of his mails. First he creates all kinds of angry moods, finds reasons to fight from other people's words and then when the water crosses his head, he cools down. This kind Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality has disturbed the peace in this group many times. He clearly shows that no one can point out his mistakes. He takes even simple advices as personal attacks. What can one do with a person who has a bare sword in his hand and is always ready to fight. > > If you go through the mails regarding Bhaskar's negative opinions about one nation, you will see that everyone was very polite and logical with him, but all his replies are full of will to fight and argue. He grew more and more adamant with each mail. Most of the members here see it as nothing abnormal because the nation in question has had bad relations with India. But, imagine if India and Bangladesh have some conflicts, should all Indians leave this group just because it is owned by an astrologer from Bangladesh. > > "Swadeshe pujyete raja, vidvan sarvatra pujyate" While the kings are respected in their own nations, the scholarly ones get respect all over the world. We cannot allow the personal, national, religious biases to hinder the growth of knowledge. > > The warnings are given when one has done a mistake and has the will to amend it. But, when one is ready with a sword to fight it out till the end, adamantly proving his own point again and again, the warnings only serve to incite him and his vociferousness. > > > Bhaskar's case is an exception. This is not applicable to everyone. Most of the members in this group have very less frequencies of angry outbursts. Everyone cannot and will not be treated in same way. > > > About my commercial motives. Bhaskar has never and can never be a challenge to me. Take it as my ego or whatever, I do not feel threatened by anyone's astrological powers in this group. My clientage is not here. Please remember it. > > It was Bhaskar who has been raising the issue of commercialisation every time. Indirectly or directly he has been showing his own needs to earn money from astrology. > > I have always maintained that I am a full time professional astrologer but I have never directly or indirectly seeked clients from this group. I had started using the signature line proclaiming my professional status only to keep the free advice seekers away from my private id. Despite that I receive around 15 mails each day which I have to ignore, warn or just delete. If you notice, I have not been using my signature line since past few weeks. My contributions have also gone down. > > Bhaskar may be a good astrologer, but he has some serious drawbacks. He does not know where to stop. An astrologer is respected not only for his knowledge but for his wisdom too. There is a big difference between knowledge and wisdom. Without wisdom knowledge can be very harmfull. > > An emotionally uncontrolled astrologer can be like a bull in a china shop. Irresponsible words, acts, rash motives and all, will be there. A doctor and an astrologer should have such a behaviour that half of the patient's or client's worries are reduced just by seeing him. A personally disturbed astrologer cannot properly guide anyone on right path. > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was taken not out of any personal grievances, but due to his own rash behaviour over last few months. We are in a group which is not ruled, governed, set by Indians only. It is a global group. Showing negative opinion for any perticular nation or religion amounts to striking at the very root of this group's foundation. The non-Indian members can get a feeling that tomorrow they can be discriminated against too. This will promt them not to contribute here any more. > > Democracy does not mean a free for all. There has to be some control somewhere. > > I say again, Bhaskar's case is an exception. He could not be warned, knowing his nature of retaliation. To avoid further ugly scenes and mutual angry dialogues, he had to be removed. > > Even before I could inform the group about his removal one member sent out his outcry. I sense that there is a feeling of insecurity among the contributing group members. But, those who know me and Tanvir are assured that we will take an action only as and when needed and up to the required intensity only. It is unfortunate that Bhaskar had to be removed. He still has the option open to apologise to whole group for his statements and he will be welcomed back with open arms. > > I have taken this action not as Astrologer Ashutosh, but as Moderator Ashutosh. Being a moderator is not in my best interests as a conributing astrologer. On 'valist' my contributions have dwindled after I was appointed moderator by Das Goravani. Now, I have to weigh all my words and statements thrice before sending out any post. Any action or word of mine can be taken as autocratic or full of self-interest. > > > If anyone feels that he can take up the responsibility of moderating this group without hurting anyone's feelings, he is welcome to take my place. I will be very happy to be just an astrologer contributer. > > > Best regards, > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > - > Tanvir Chowdhury > > Saturday, 16 September, 2006 00:20 > Current situation > > > Dear all, > > It is clear that there are some heat, or discussion on this forum > about the recent banning of > > Bhaskar Ji by newly appointed moderator Ashutosh Ji. (For everyone's > information, whoever might be mistaking, I did not ban Bhaskar Ji; > Ashutosh Ji did.) So I wanted to add my two bits of my input here. > We need to clarify a lot of things. > > Dear Arjun Ji, in one post you have written, > > "it is sad to note that tanvirji ignored the request of ALL MEMBERS > to give a warning first before banning a member." > > I have not ignored any request. I am very busy about my personal > life and unfortunately cannot concentrate about the forum that much > to precisely monitor what is going on and I believe that even > missing ONE message might lead a moderator to take a wrong decision. > That's why I have appointed Ashutosh Ji as a new moderator, for few > reasons : He is a good astrologer, this is needed for a moderator > because he has to resist the filths that comes as astrology (Like I > believe I have done the correct when I banned SA from this forum). > secondly so far I have known him, I watch him as a mature, tolerant, > logical and unbiased person, which is needed for moderation. The > last two qualities are very needed. (Of course many I know will > disagre about his tolerance and maturity for the recent banning, of > course views differ.) And also that he showed the concern about > group by writing me personally... often there are arguments beyond > the limit, and even spam mails, porn advertisements but no one wrote > to me but now at least he did. > > Now as the banning of Prashant Kumar Ji, I had received a few > complaints about him and as I did not follow the posts regularly I > recognized the complaints (as there was more than one person > compaining) and so banned him. I could NOT give a warning because it > would need further monitoring which I was unable of doing. And I did > know that my decision might be wrong AND that is the reason I asked > freely about your opinion and as soon as I had received positive > feedback, I had removed the ban and requested him to join again. Had > I investigated the matter more, or thought my decision to be final, > I would not have asked for your comments / votes. But I knew that I > might be wrong that is why I kept the room for being flexible. > > Personally I am always against of banning and the most I do (In > general) is to disable one's posting and still let him/her be in the > forum. > > Here I have given the power to Ashutosh Ji to ban someone because if > someone has given some responsibility he must be given the power and > authority otherwise he cannot carry out his job. > > I believe Ashutosh Ji will use his authority and decisions with > tolerance and maturity, of course and I believe you all will > cooperate him in this matter. > > He might as well consider the step by step procedure suggested by > you as well. Personally I am in favour of using this steps before > banning someone. However, as I have given HIM the responsibility, I > would like to let HIM decide and not burden my own style on him. > > I also feel that a message should be delivered announcing the ban of > the member and explaining the reasons, after the ban is executed. > > Regarding financial interests about astrology, I do not think it to > be bad. A person might be thinking that his wisdom, knowledge or > whatever he has is worth selling, if others are willing to buy. > Giving free readings cannot assure that one is noble. One can be > very fair even after offering only paid readings and one can be a > deceiver / unethical even through free readings. I personally really > do not remember when for the last time I had replied to a mail > requesting free reading. It is of course more than six months, or > even close to a year. So, will people say that I am a businessman? > Some will, surely. But they will NOT do anymore after learning that > one person is after me for a PAID READING for more than 4-5 months > and another person is on the queue for one month and another is for > 20 days or so. All paid readings, from where I would earn money. > > So it is all about being busy, and the reading needs mental energy, > some deep insight, that has to come from it's own. Otherwise, I do > NOT do readings, no one can even make me. People can also criticize > on my high prices of readings ($100-200, on average $150 or > somewhere) but it's just that I feel that my knowledge and labour > deserves that payment, I am in favour of working less but when I > work, I work good. For God's grace there is no complaint / > dissatisfaction from any of my paid customers as of yet. And many > trash things are going on around as astrology, with high prices, > just for their BIG NAMES and BIG GROUPS, and I know about their > knowledge fairly enough, so my ethics does not let me charge small. > > So anyone can call me businessman too... but I know I am enough > strong financially and have no dependency on the money earned from > net. > > Anyway. > > Thanks for everyone, for your voices and being a part of JR family. > > Regards > Tanvir > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Ashutoshji, As an ordinary member who shares the concerns regarding this forum. I would say that Bhaskar is a passionate astrologer but going through a rough period in which he has managed to alienate almost everybody. There are two different issues here, One ,whether the Bhaskar ban is judicious and correct. A subissue of this is whether there should be a procedure to inflict punishment. Two,whether it was correct on the part of the new moderator to begin an innings in such a stormy fashion. What impression does it leave? Unwittingly the moderator, therefore, becomes an issue! The moderator is the decisionmaker. Most of the internet forums are run on the basis of moderator decision being final and I see no reason why this group should be an exception. The moderator needs to be more moderate.Never an easy task..... Every person has to do his/her duty according to one's own perceptions. As a poet said, Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe rona aaya. regards rishi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Arjun Ji, Pls u r good as a memeber not as a moderator, Ashutosh Ji watever u may think he is a totally focused man -only astrology and nothing else ,he doesnt preach about religion or puranas etc.religion and philosophy is there in other groups . You could have been a moderator provided the image u r projecting always in most of ur mails is : I THE HEALER I THE REIKI MASTER I THE TANTRIC I THE CLAIRVOYANT I NOW ON ASTRAL TRAVEL I THE CREATOR OF MAYA I AND MINE RUDRAKSHA I BELIEVE AND DECLARE SHANKARACHARYA AS THE AVATAAR all this in way u r trying to promote ur interest ,how cud you be the moderator. If a person has reached such heights wat is he doing on this NET governed by( Shani,Rahu ). If you have really gone so far why this big " I " is always attached where is the need to serve or do Seva .Pls GOD knows when to get his Puja done and by who ,whenever he needs it . as regards to ashutosh ji decsion .most of the members knew wat was coming due to Bhaskar ji 's outburst though no doubt he is a good astrologer but a child at heart always fighting and then ready to say sorry.I hope good sense will prevail on ashutosh ji and he wud reinstate him . with due respect to you kumar , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear ashutoshji > > let me clarify to you and to the group that i have nothing personal > against you and my whole criticism is targeted on your inaction in > earlier episode and instat action in current episode. > > since many members have expressed their unhappiness and you too > invited any member to take up the responsibility of moderating the > group, i offer myself to moderate this group and, if the group owner > entrusts this responsibility and the members have no objection, my > moderatorship would be limited to the following activities: > > 1. remove or delete spam mails such as advertisements, pornos, virus > mails etc. > 2. answer all those queries which are not answered by any member and > the querent post reminders. > 3. inform the member publicly about any protests or hurt feelings > received against that member. > 4. if any member hurts too much and too many complaints pour against > him, i will ONLY PLACE HIM UNDER MODERATION and still approve all > good mails and delete only objectionable mails. > 5. criticism of any person or any country is allowed IF IT IS BASED > ON FACTS, SUBSTANTIATED BY REFERENCES. > 6. allow non-jyotish content but related to spirituality or self > realisation as well since this is a discussion group to impart > knoweldge on all subjects allied to astrology. > 7. being a moderator, i never sell myself or my services in this > group. outside the group and in private domain, i have full freedom. > 8. will resign instantly if any member objects to my moderatorship > based on facts. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "astrologerashutosh" > <astrologerashutosh@> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was not born out of > impatience. There is a valid reason behind it. > > > > There was the option of warning him. But, knowing > the 'short-fuse' volatile nature of Bhaskar, what do you think would > have been his reaction. The one who has personally attacked almost > every contributing member in this group, would have politely > accepted the warning? > > > > His words on my chat were," Main tab tak kisi ka > kuchh nahin bigadta jab tak woh mera kuchh na bigade." meaning, "I > do not harm anyone unless he harms me." This despite the fact that I > was not even responding to him. Sensing further attacks from him, I > ignored him from my messenger. > > > > Not to go too far, Bhaskar had indirectly attacked RRji > yesterday in one of his mails. First he creates all kinds of angry > moods, finds reasons to fight from other people's words and then > when the water crosses his head, he cools down. This kind Dr. Jekyl > and Mr. Hyde personality has disturbed the peace in this group many > times. He clearly shows that no one can point out his mistakes. He > takes even simple advices as personal attacks. What can one do with > a person who has a bare sword in his hand and is always ready to > fight. > > > > If you go through the mails regarding Bhaskar's negative > opinions about one nation, you will see that everyone was very > polite and logical with him, but all his replies are full of will to > fight and argue. He grew more and more adamant with each mail. Most > of the members here see it as nothing abnormal because the nation in > question has had bad relations with India. But, imagine if India and > Bangladesh have some conflicts, should all Indians leave this group > just because it is owned by an astrologer from Bangladesh. > > > > "Swadeshe pujyete raja, vidvan sarvatra pujyate" While the > kings are respected in their own nations, the scholarly ones get > respect all over the world. We cannot allow the personal, national, > religious biases to hinder the growth of knowledge. > > > > The warnings are given when one has done a mistake and has > the will to amend it. But, when one is ready with a sword to fight > it out till the end, adamantly proving his own point again and > again, the warnings only serve to incite him and his vociferousness. > > > > > > Bhaskar's case is an exception. This is not applicable to > everyone. Most of the members in this group have very less > frequencies of angry outbursts. Everyone cannot and will not be > treated in same way. > > > > > > About my commercial motives. Bhaskar has never and can > never be a challenge to me. Take it as my ego or whatever, I do not > feel threatened by anyone's astrological powers in this group. My > clientage is not here. Please remember it. > > > > It was Bhaskar who has been raising the issue of > commercialisation every time. Indirectly or directly he has been > showing his own needs to earn money from astrology. > > > > I have always maintained that I am a full time > professional astrologer but I have never directly or indirectly > seeked clients from this group. I had started using the signature > line proclaiming my professional status only to keep the free advice > seekers away from my private id. Despite that I receive around 15 > mails each day which I have to ignore, warn or just delete. If you > notice, I have not been using my signature line since past few > weeks. My contributions have also gone down. > > > > Bhaskar may be a good astrologer, but he has some serious > drawbacks. He does not know where to stop. An astrologer is > respected not only for his knowledge but for his wisdom too. There > is a big difference between knowledge and wisdom. Without wisdom > knowledge can be very harmfull. > > > > An emotionally uncontrolled astrologer can be like a bull > in a china shop. Irresponsible words, acts, rash motives and all, > will be there. A doctor and an astrologer should have such a > behaviour that half of the patient's or client's worries are reduced > just by seeing him. A personally disturbed astrologer cannot > properly guide anyone on right path. > > > > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was taken not out of any > personal grievances, but due to his own rash behaviour over last few > months. We are in a group which is not ruled, governed, set by > Indians only. It is a global group. Showing negative opinion for any > perticular nation or religion amounts to striking at the very root > of this group's foundation. The non-Indian members can get a feeling > that tomorrow they can be discriminated against too. This will promt > them not to contribute here any more. > > > > Democracy does not mean a free for all. There has to be > some control somewhere. > > > > I say again, Bhaskar's case is an exception. He could not > be warned, knowing his nature of retaliation. To avoid further ugly > scenes and mutual angry dialogues, he had to be removed. > > > > Even before I could inform the group about his removal one > member sent out his outcry. I sense that there is a feeling of > insecurity among the contributing group members. But, those who know > me and Tanvir are assured that we will take an action only as and > when needed and up to the required intensity only. It is unfortunate > that Bhaskar had to be removed. He still has the option open to > apologise to whole group for his statements and he will be welcomed > back with open arms. > > > > I have taken this action not as Astrologer Ashutosh, but > as Moderator Ashutosh. Being a moderator is not in my best interests > as a conributing astrologer. On 'valist' my contributions have > dwindled after I was appointed moderator by Das Goravani. Now, I > have to weigh all my words and statements thrice before sending out > any post. Any action or word of mine can be taken as autocratic or > full of self-interest. > > > > > > If anyone feels that he can take up the responsibility of > moderating this group without hurting anyone's feelings, he is > welcome to take my place. I will be very happy to be just an > astrologer contributer. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Tanvir Chowdhury > > > > Saturday, 16 September, 2006 00:20 > > Current situation > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > It is clear that there are some heat, or discussion on this > forum > > about the recent banning of > > > > Bhaskar Ji by newly appointed moderator Ashutosh Ji. (For > everyone's > > information, whoever might be mistaking, I did not ban Bhaskar > Ji; > > Ashutosh Ji did.) So I wanted to add my two bits of my input > here. > > We need to clarify a lot of things. > > > > Dear Arjun Ji, in one post you have written, > > > > "it is sad to note that tanvirji ignored the request of ALL > MEMBERS > > to give a warning first before banning a member." > > > > I have not ignored any request. I am very busy about my personal > > life and unfortunately cannot concentrate about the forum that > much > > to precisely monitor what is going on and I believe that even > > missing ONE message might lead a moderator to take a wrong > decision. > > That's why I have appointed Ashutosh Ji as a new moderator, for > few > > reasons : He is a good astrologer, this is needed for a > moderator > > because he has to resist the filths that comes as astrology > (Like I > > believe I have done the correct when I banned SA from this > forum). > > secondly so far I have known him, I watch him as a mature, > tolerant, > > logical and unbiased person, which is needed for moderation. The > > last two qualities are very needed. (Of course many I know will > > disagre about his tolerance and maturity for the recent banning, > of > > course views differ.) And also that he showed the concern about > > group by writing me personally... often there are arguments > beyond > > the limit, and even spam mails, porn advertisements but no one > wrote > > to me but now at least he did. > > > > Now as the banning of Prashant Kumar Ji, I had received a few > > complaints about him and as I did not follow the posts regularly > I > > recognized the complaints (as there was more than one person > > compaining) and so banned him. I could NOT give a warning > because it > > would need further monitoring which I was unable of doing. And I > did > > know that my decision might be wrong AND that is the reason I > asked > > freely about your opinion and as soon as I had received positive > > feedback, I had removed the ban and requested him to join again. > Had > > I investigated the matter more, or thought my decision to be > final, > > I would not have asked for your comments / votes. But I knew > that I > > might be wrong that is why I kept the room for being flexible. > > > > Personally I am always against of banning and the most I do (In > > general) is to disable one's posting and still let him/her be in > the > > forum. > > > > Here I have given the power to Ashutosh Ji to ban someone > because if > > someone has given some responsibility he must be given the power > and > > authority otherwise he cannot carry out his job. > > > > I believe Ashutosh Ji will use his authority and decisions with > > tolerance and maturity, of course and I believe you all will > > cooperate him in this matter. > > > > He might as well consider the step by step procedure suggested > by > > you as well. Personally I am in favour of using this steps > before > > banning someone. However, as I have given HIM the > responsibility, I > > would like to let HIM decide and not burden my own style on him. > > > > I also feel that a message should be delivered announcing the > ban of > > the member and explaining the reasons, after the ban is executed. > > > > Regarding financial interests about astrology, I do not think it > to > > be bad. A person might be thinking that his wisdom, knowledge or > > whatever he has is worth selling, if others are willing to buy. > > Giving free readings cannot assure that one is noble. One can be > > very fair even after offering only paid readings and one can be > a > > deceiver / unethical even through free readings. I personally > really > > do not remember when for the last time I had replied to a mail > > requesting free reading. It is of course more than six months, > or > > even close to a year. So, will people say that I am a > businessman? > > Some will, surely. But they will NOT do anymore after learning > that > > one person is after me for a PAID READING for more than 4-5 > months > > and another person is on the queue for one month and another is > for > > 20 days or so. All paid readings, from where I would earn money. > > > > So it is all about being busy, and the reading needs mental > energy, > > some deep insight, that has to come from it's own. Otherwise, I > do > > NOT do readings, no one can even make me. People can also > criticize > > on my high prices of readings ($100-200, on average $150 or > > somewhere) but it's just that I feel that my knowledge and > labour > > deserves that payment, I am in favour of working less but when I > > work, I work good. For God's grace there is no complaint / > > dissatisfaction from any of my paid customers as of yet. And > many > > trash things are going on around as astrology, with high prices, > > just for their BIG NAMES and BIG GROUPS, and I know about their > > knowledge fairly enough, so my ethics does not let me charge > small. > > > > So anyone can call me businessman too... but I know I am enough > > strong financially and have no dependency on the money earned > from > > net. > > > > Anyway. > > > > Thanks for everyone, for your voices and being a part of JR > family. > > > > Regards > > Tanvir > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > remedies > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 > wrote: dear ashutoshji let me clarify to you and to the group that i have nothing personal against you and my whole criticism is targeted on your inaction in earlier episode and instat action in current episode. since many members have expressed their unhappiness and you too invited any member to take up the responsibility of moderating the group, i offer myself to moderate this group and, if the group owner entrusts this responsibility and the members have no objection, my moderatorship would be limited to the following activities: 1. remove or delete spam mails such as advertisements, pornos, virus mails etc. 2. answer all those queries which are not answered by any member and the querent post reminders. 3. inform the member publicly about any protests or hurt feelings received against that member. 4. if any member hurts too much and too many complaints pour against him, i will ONLY PLACE HIM UNDER MODERATION and still approve all good mails and delete only objectionable mails. 5. criticism of any person or any country is allowed IF IT IS BASED ON FACTS, SUBSTANTIATED BY REFERENCES. 6. allow non-jyotish content but related to spirituality or self realisation as well since this is a discussion group to impart knoweldge on all subjects allied to astrology. 7. being a moderator, i never sell myself or my services in this group. outside the group and in private domain, i have full freedom. 8. will resign instantly if any member objects to my moderatorship based on facts. with best wishes pandit arjun , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh wrote: > > Dear all, > > The action to ban Bhaskar was not born out of impatience. There is a valid reason behind it. > > There was the option of warning him. But, knowing the 'short-fuse' volatile nature of Bhaskar, what do you think would have been his reaction. The one who has personally attacked almost every contributing member in this group, would have politely accepted the warning? > > His words on my chat were," Main tab tak kisi ka kuchh nahin bigadta jab tak woh mera kuchh na bigade." meaning, "I do not harm anyone unless he harms me." This despite the fact that I was not even responding to him. Sensing further attacks from him, I ignored him from my messenger. > > Not to go too far, Bhaskar had indirectly attacked RRji yesterday in one of his mails. First he creates all kinds of angry moods, finds reasons to fight from other people's words and then when the water crosses his head, he cools down. This kind Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality has disturbed the peace in this group many times. He clearly shows that no one can point out his mistakes. He takes even simple advices as personal attacks. What can one do with a person who has a bare sword in his hand and is always ready to fight. > > If you go through the mails regarding Bhaskar's negative opinions about one nation, you will see that everyone was very polite and logical with him, but all his replies are full of will to fight and argue. He grew more and more adamant with each mail. Most of the members here see it as nothing abnormal because the nation in question has had bad relations with India. But, imagine if India and Bangladesh have some conflicts, should all Indians leave this group just because it is owned by an astrologer from Bangladesh. > > "Swadeshe pujyete raja, vidvan sarvatra pujyate" While the kings are respected in their own nations, the scholarly ones get respect all over the world. We cannot allow the personal, national, religious biases to hinder the growth of knowledge. > > The warnings are given when one has done a mistake and has the will to amend it. But, when one is ready with a sword to fight it out till the end, adamantly proving his own point again and again, the warnings only serve to incite him and his vociferousness. > > > Bhaskar's case is an exception. This is not applicable to everyone. Most of the members in this group have very less frequencies of angry outbursts. Everyone cannot and will not be treated in same way. > > > About my commercial motives. Bhaskar has never and can never be a challenge to me. Take it as my ego or whatever, I do not feel threatened by anyone's astrological powers in this group. My clientage is not here. Please remember it. > > It was Bhaskar who has been raising the issue of commercialisation every time. Indirectly or directly he has been showing his own needs to earn money from astrology. > > I have always maintained that I am a full time professional astrologer but I have never directly or indirectly seeked clients from this group. I had started using the signature line proclaiming my professional status only to keep the free advice seekers away from my private id. Despite that I receive around 15 mails each day which I have to ignore, warn or just delete. If you notice, I have not been using my signature line since past few weeks. My contributions have also gone down. > > Bhaskar may be a good astrologer, but he has some serious drawbacks. He does not know where to stop. An astrologer is respected not only for his knowledge but for his wisdom too. There is a big difference between knowledge and wisdom. Without wisdom knowledge can be very harmfull. > > An emotionally uncontrolled astrologer can be like a bull in a china shop. Irresponsible words, acts, rash motives and all, will be there. A doctor and an astrologer should have such a behaviour that half of the patient's or client's worries are reduced just by seeing him. A personally disturbed astrologer cannot properly guide anyone on right path. > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was taken not out of any personal grievances, but due to his own rash behaviour over last few months. We are in a group which is not ruled, governed, set by Indians only. It is a global group. Showing negative opinion for any perticular nation or religion amounts to striking at the very root of this group's foundation. The non-Indian members can get a feeling that tomorrow they can be discriminated against too. This will promt them not to contribute here any more. > > Democracy does not mean a free for all. There has to be some control somewhere. > > I say again, Bhaskar's case is an exception. He could not be warned, knowing his nature of retaliation. To avoid further ugly scenes and mutual angry dialogues, he had to be removed. > > Even before I could inform the group about his removal one member sent out his outcry. I sense that there is a feeling of insecurity among the contributing group members. But, those who know me and Tanvir are assured that we will take an action only as and when needed and up to the required intensity only. It is unfortunate that Bhaskar had to be removed. He still has the option open to apologise to whole group for his statements and he will be welcomed back with open arms. > > I have taken this action not as Astrologer Ashutosh, but as Moderator Ashutosh. Being a moderator is not in my best interests as a conributing astrologer. On 'valist' my contributions have dwindled after I was appointed moderator by Das Goravani. Now, I have to weigh all my words and statements thrice before sending out any post. Any action or word of mine can be taken as autocratic or full of self-interest. > > > If anyone feels that he can take up the responsibility of moderating this group without hurting anyone's feelings, he is welcome to take my place. I will be very happy to be just an astrologer contributer. > > > Best regards, > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > - > Tanvir Chowdhury > > Saturday, 16 September, 2006 00:20 > Current situation > > > Dear all, > > It is clear that there are some heat, or discussion on this forum > about the recent banning of > > Bhaskar Ji by newly appointed moderator Ashutosh Ji. (For everyone's > information, whoever might be mistaking, I did not ban Bhaskar Ji; > Ashutosh Ji did.) So I wanted to add my two bits of my input here. > We need to clarify a lot of things. > > Dear Arjun Ji, in one post you have written, > > "it is sad to note that tanvirji ignored the request of ALL MEMBERS > to give a warning first before banning a member." > > I have not ignored any request. I am very busy about my personal > life and unfortunately cannot concentrate about the forum that much > to precisely monitor what is going on and I believe that even > missing ONE message might lead a moderator to take a wrong decision. > That's why I have appointed Ashutosh Ji as a new moderator, for few > reasons : He is a good astrologer, this is needed for a moderator > because he has to resist the filths that comes as astrology (Like I > believe I have done the correct when I banned SA from this forum). > secondly so far I have known him, I watch him as a mature, tolerant, > logical and unbiased person, which is needed for moderation. The > last two qualities are very needed. (Of course many I know will > disagre about his tolerance and maturity for the recent banning, of > course views differ.) And also that he showed the concern about > group by writing me personally... often there are arguments beyond > the limit, and even spam mails, porn advertisements but no one wrote > to me but now at least he did. > > Now as the banning of Prashant Kumar Ji, I had received a few > complaints about him and as I did not follow the posts regularly I > recognized the complaints (as there was more than one person > compaining) and so banned him. I could NOT give a warning because it > would need further monitoring which I was unable of doing. And I did > know that my decision might be wrong AND that is the reason I asked > freely about your opinion and as soon as I had received positive > feedback, I had removed the ban and requested him to join again. Had > I investigated the matter more, or thought my decision to be final, > I would not have asked for your comments / votes. But I knew that I > might be wrong that is why I kept the room for being flexible. > > Personally I am always against of banning and the most I do (In > general) is to disable one's posting and still let him/her be in the > forum. > > Here I have given the power to Ashutosh Ji to ban someone because if > someone has given some responsibility he must be given the power and > authority otherwise he cannot carry out his job. > > I believe Ashutosh Ji will use his authority and decisions with > tolerance and maturity, of course and I believe you all will > cooperate him in this matter. > > He might as well consider the step by step procedure suggested by > you as well. Personally I am in favour of using this steps before > banning someone. However, as I have given HIM the responsibility, I > would like to let HIM decide and not burden my own style on him. > > I also feel that a message should be delivered announcing the ban of > the member and explaining the reasons, after the ban is executed. > > Regarding financial interests about astrology, I do not think it to > be bad. A person might be thinking that his wisdom, knowledge or > whatever he has is worth selling, if others are willing to buy. > Giving free readings cannot assure that one is noble. One can be > very fair even after offering only paid readings and one can be a > deceiver / unethical even through free readings. I personally really > do not remember when for the last time I had replied to a mail > requesting free reading. It is of course more than six months, or > even close to a year. So, will people say that I am a businessman? > Some will, surely. But they will NOT do anymore after learning that > one person is after me for a PAID READING for more than 4-5 months > and another person is on the queue for one month and another is for > 20 days or so. All paid readings, from where I would earn money. > > So it is all about being busy, and the reading needs mental energy, > some deep insight, that has to come from it's own. Otherwise, I do > NOT do readings, no one can even make me. People can also criticize > on my high prices of readings ($100-200, on average $150 or > somewhere) but it's just that I feel that my knowledge and labour > deserves that payment, I am in favour of working less but when I > work, I work good. For God's grace there is no complaint / > dissatisfaction from any of my paid customers as of yet. And many > trash things are going on around as astrology, with high prices, > just for their BIG NAMES and BIG GROUPS, and I know about their > knowledge fairly enough, so my ethics does not let me charge small. > > So anyone can call me businessman too... but I know I am enough > strong financially and have no dependency on the money earned from > net. > > Anyway. > > Thanks for everyone, for your voices and being a part of JR family. > > Regards > Tanvir > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 BUT despite all those <first person references> you wrote and shared with all of us in the forum openly!> WHY? Surely for an important reason, howsoever personal! , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Rishi ji > > Believe me, i was looking for most effective lines for the day and I found it in your mail: > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe > rona aaya. > > Many thanks.. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > If you paint in your mind a picture of bright and happy expectations, you put yourself into a condition conducive to your goal. > > ************************************************ > > > > > > rishi_2000in > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 05:41:36 -0000 > > > > Re: Current situation- Some clarifications > > > > Ashutoshji, > > As an ordinary member who shares the concerns regarding this forum. > > I would say that Bhaskar is a passionate astrologer but going > > through a rough period in which he has managed to alienate almost > > everybody. > > There are two different issues here, > > One ,whether the Bhaskar ban is judicious and correct. A subissue of > > this is whether there should be a procedure to inflict punishment. > > > > Two,whether it was correct on the part of the new moderator to begin > > an innings in such a stormy fashion. What impression does it leave? > > Unwittingly the moderator, therefore, becomes an issue! > > > > The moderator is the decisionmaker. Most of the internet forums are > > run on the basis of moderator decision being final and I see no > > reason why this group should be an exception. The moderator needs to > > be more moderate.Never an easy task..... > > Every person has to do his/her duty according to one's own > > perceptions. > > As a poet said, > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe > > rona aaya. > > > > regards > > > > rishi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 dear kumarji have not asked for any responsibility myself but volunteered to accept the inivtation ashutoshji only to give a moderate liberal approach for the group. as regards your observation of mine, there is no secret that even after these realisations, i chose to be in this concerete jungle and also make my services or products available at a price. this is precisely the reason when i mentioned that IF I WERE TO BECOME A MDOERATOR, I WILL NOT SELL MYSELF OR MY SERVICES IN THIS GROUP. anyway thanks for your feedback which i take positively since it is true and a fact remains a fact if told by the self or by a critic. with best wishes and blessings pandit arjun , "C.P.Kumar" <pacificsiam wrote: > > Dear Arjun Ji, > Pls u r good as a memeber not as a moderator, Ashutosh Ji watever u > may think he is a totally focused man -only astrology and nothing > else ,he doesnt preach about religion or puranas etc.religion and > philosophy is there in other groups . > You could have been a moderator provided the image u r projecting > always in most of ur mails is : > I THE HEALER > I THE REIKI MASTER > I THE TANTRIC > I THE CLAIRVOYANT > I NOW ON ASTRAL TRAVEL > I THE CREATOR OF MAYA > I AND MINE RUDRAKSHA > I BELIEVE AND DECLARE SHANKARACHARYA AS THE AVATAAR > all this in way u r trying to promote ur interest ,how cud you be the > moderator. > If a person has reached such heights wat is he doing on this NET > governed by( Shani,Rahu ). > If you have really gone so far why this big " I " is always attached > where is the need to serve or do Seva .Pls GOD knows when to get his > Puja done and by who ,whenever he needs it . > > as regards to ashutosh ji decsion .most of the members knew wat was > coming due to Bhaskar ji 's outburst though no doubt he is a good > astrologer but a child at heart always fighting and then ready to say > sorry.I hope good sense will prevail on ashutosh ji and he wud reinstate > him . > with due respect to you > kumar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear ashutoshji > > > > let me clarify to you and to the group that i have nothing personal > > against you and my whole criticism is targeted on your inaction in > > earlier episode and instat action in current episode. > > > > since many members have expressed their unhappiness and you too > > invited any member to take up the responsibility of moderating the > > group, i offer myself to moderate this group and, if the group owner > > entrusts this responsibility and the members have no objection, my > > moderatorship would be limited to the following activities: > > > > 1. remove or delete spam mails such as advertisements, pornos, > virus > > mails etc. > > 2. answer all those queries which are not answered by any member > and > > the querent post reminders. > > 3. inform the member publicly about any protests or hurt feelings > > received against that member. > > 4. if any member hurts too much and too many complaints pour > against > > him, i will ONLY PLACE HIM UNDER MODERATION and still approve all > > good mails and delete only objectionable mails. > > 5. criticism of any person or any country is allowed IF IT IS BASED > > ON FACTS, SUBSTANTIATED BY REFERENCES. > > 6. allow non-jyotish content but related to spirituality or self > > realisation as well since this is a discussion group to impart > > knoweldge on all subjects allied to astrology. > > 7. being a moderator, i never sell myself or my services in this > > group. outside the group and in private domain, i have full freedom. > > 8. will resign instantly if any member objects to my moderatorship > > based on facts. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "astrologerashutosh" > > <astrologerashutosh@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was not born out of > > impatience. There is a valid reason behind it. > > > > > > There was the option of warning him. But, knowing > > the 'short-fuse' volatile nature of Bhaskar, what do you think would > > have been his reaction. The one who has personally attacked almost > > every contributing member in this group, would have politely > > accepted the warning? > > > > > > His words on my chat were," Main tab tak kisi ka > > kuchh nahin bigadta jab tak woh mera kuchh na bigade." meaning, "I > > do not harm anyone unless he harms me." This despite the fact that I > > was not even responding to him. Sensing further attacks from him, I > > ignored him from my messenger. > > > > > > Not to go too far, Bhaskar had indirectly attacked RRji > > yesterday in one of his mails. First he creates all kinds of angry > > moods, finds reasons to fight from other people's words and then > > when the water crosses his head, he cools down. This kind Dr. Jekyl > > and Mr. Hyde personality has disturbed the peace in this group many > > times. He clearly shows that no one can point out his mistakes. He > > takes even simple advices as personal attacks. What can one do with > > a person who has a bare sword in his hand and is always ready to > > fight. > > > > > > If you go through the mails regarding Bhaskar's negative > > opinions about one nation, you will see that everyone was very > > polite and logical with him, but all his replies are full of will to > > fight and argue. He grew more and more adamant with each mail. > Most > > of the members here see it as nothing abnormal because the nation > in > > question has had bad relations with India. But, imagine if India and > > Bangladesh have some conflicts, should all Indians leave this group > > just because it is owned by an astrologer from Bangladesh. > > > > > > "Swadeshe pujyete raja, vidvan sarvatra pujyate" While the > > kings are respected in their own nations, the scholarly ones get > > respect all over the world. We cannot allow the personal, national, > > religious biases to hinder the growth of knowledge. > > > > > > The warnings are given when one has done a mistake and > has > > the will to amend it. But, when one is ready with a sword to fight > > it out till the end, adamantly proving his own point again and > > again, the warnings only serve to incite him and his vociferousness. > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar's case is an exception. This is not applicable to > > everyone. Most of the members in this group have very less > > frequencies of angry outbursts. Everyone cannot and will not be > > treated in same way. > > > > > > > > > About my commercial motives. Bhaskar has never and can > > never be a challenge to me. Take it as my ego or whatever, I do not > > feel threatened by anyone's astrological powers in this group. My > > clientage is not here. Please remember it. > > > > > > It was Bhaskar who has been raising the issue of > > commercialisation every time. Indirectly or directly he has been > > showing his own needs to earn money from astrology. > > > > > > I have always maintained that I am a full time > > professional astrologer but I have never directly or indirectly > > seeked clients from this group. I had started using the signature > > line proclaiming my professional status only to keep the free advice > > seekers away from my private id. Despite that I receive around 15 > > mails each day which I have to ignore, warn or just delete. If you > > notice, I have not been using my signature line since past few > > weeks. My contributions have also gone down. > > > > > > Bhaskar may be a good astrologer, but he has some serious > > drawbacks. He does not know where to stop. An astrologer is > > respected not only for his knowledge but for his wisdom too. There > > is a big difference between knowledge and wisdom. Without wisdom > > knowledge can be very harmfull. > > > > > > An emotionally uncontrolled astrologer can be like a bull > > in a china shop. Irresponsible words, acts, rash motives and all, > > will be there. A doctor and an astrologer should have such a > > behaviour that half of the patient's or client's worries are reduced > > just by seeing him. A personally disturbed astrologer cannot > > properly guide anyone on right path. > > > > > > > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was taken not out of any > > personal grievances, but due to his own rash behaviour over last few > > months. We are in a group which is not ruled, governed, set by > > Indians only. It is a global group. Showing negative opinion for any > > perticular nation or religion amounts to striking at the very root > > of this group's foundation. The non-Indian members can get a feeling > > that tomorrow they can be discriminated against too. This will promt > > them not to contribute here any more. > > > > > > Democracy does not mean a free for all. There has to be > > some control somewhere. > > > > > > I say again, Bhaskar's case is an exception. He could not > > be warned, knowing his nature of retaliation. To avoid further ugly > > scenes and mutual angry dialogues, he had to be removed. > > > > > > Even before I could inform the group about his removal one > > member sent out his outcry. I sense that there is a feeling of > > insecurity among the contributing group members. But, those who > know > > me and Tanvir are assured that we will take an action only as and > > when needed and up to the required intensity only. It is unfortunate > > that Bhaskar had to be removed. He still has the option open to > > apologise to whole group for his statements and he will be welcomed > > back with open arms. > > > > > > I have taken this action not as Astrologer Ashutosh, but > > as Moderator Ashutosh. Being a moderator is not in my best interests > > as a conributing astrologer. On 'valist' my contributions have > > dwindled after I was appointed moderator by Das Goravani. Now, I > > have to weigh all my words and statements thrice before sending out > > any post. Any action or word of mine can be taken as autocratic or > > full of self-interest. > > > > > > > > > If anyone feels that he can take up the responsibility of > > moderating this group without hurting anyone's feelings, he is > > welcome to take my place. I will be very happy to be just an > > astrologer contributer. > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tanvir Chowdhury > > > > > > Saturday, 16 September, 2006 00:20 > > > Current situation > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > It is clear that there are some heat, or discussion on this > > forum > > > about the recent banning of > > > > > > Bhaskar Ji by newly appointed moderator Ashutosh Ji. (For > > everyone's > > > information, whoever might be mistaking, I did not ban Bhaskar > > Ji; > > > Ashutosh Ji did.) So I wanted to add my two bits of my input > > here. > > > We need to clarify a lot of things. > > > > > > Dear Arjun Ji, in one post you have written, > > > > > > "it is sad to note that tanvirji ignored the request of ALL > > MEMBERS > > > to give a warning first before banning a member." > > > > > > I have not ignored any request. I am very busy about my personal > > > life and unfortunately cannot concentrate about the forum that > > much > > > to precisely monitor what is going on and I believe that even > > > missing ONE message might lead a moderator to take a wrong > > decision. > > > That's why I have appointed Ashutosh Ji as a new moderator, for > > few > > > reasons : He is a good astrologer, this is needed for a > > moderator > > > because he has to resist the filths that comes as astrology > > (Like I > > > believe I have done the correct when I banned SA from this > > forum). > > > secondly so far I have known him, I watch him as a mature, > > tolerant, > > > logical and unbiased person, which is needed for moderation. The > > > last two qualities are very needed. (Of course many I know will > > > disagre about his tolerance and maturity for the recent banning, > > of > > > course views differ.) And also that he showed the concern about > > > group by writing me personally... often there are arguments > > beyond > > > the limit, and even spam mails, porn advertisements but no one > > wrote > > > to me but now at least he did. > > > > > > Now as the banning of Prashant Kumar Ji, I had received a few > > > complaints about him and as I did not follow the posts regularly > > I > > > recognized the complaints (as there was more than one person > > > compaining) and so banned him. I could NOT give a warning > > because it > > > would need further monitoring which I was unable of doing. And I > > did > > > know that my decision might be wrong AND that is the reason I > > asked > > > freely about your opinion and as soon as I had received positive > > > feedback, I had removed the ban and requested him to join again. > > Had > > > I investigated the matter more, or thought my decision to be > > final, > > > I would not have asked for your comments / votes. But I knew > > that I > > > might be wrong that is why I kept the room for being flexible. > > > > > > Personally I am always against of banning and the most I do (In > > > general) is to disable one's posting and still let him/her be in > > the > > > forum. > > > > > > Here I have given the power to Ashutosh Ji to ban someone > > because if > > > someone has given some responsibility he must be given the > power > > and > > > authority otherwise he cannot carry out his job. > > > > > > I believe Ashutosh Ji will use his authority and decisions with > > > tolerance and maturity, of course and I believe you all will > > > cooperate him in this matter. > > > > > > He might as well consider the step by step procedure suggested > > by > > > you as well. Personally I am in favour of using this steps > > before > > > banning someone. However, as I have given HIM the > > responsibility, I > > > would like to let HIM decide and not burden my own style on him. > > > > > > I also feel that a message should be delivered announcing the > > ban of > > > the member and explaining the reasons, after the ban is executed. > > > > > > Regarding financial interests about astrology, I do not think it > > to > > > be bad. A person might be thinking that his wisdom, knowledge or > > > whatever he has is worth selling, if others are willing to buy. > > > Giving free readings cannot assure that one is noble. One can be > > > very fair even after offering only paid readings and one can be > > a > > > deceiver / unethical even through free readings. I personally > > really > > > do not remember when for the last time I had replied to a mail > > > requesting free reading. It is of course more than six months, > > or > > > even close to a year. So, will people say that I am a > > businessman? > > > Some will, surely. But they will NOT do anymore after learning > > that > > > one person is after me for a PAID READING for more than 4-5 > > months > > > and another person is on the queue for one month and another is > > for > > > 20 days or so. All paid readings, from where I would earn money. > > > > > > So it is all about being busy, and the reading needs mental > > energy, > > > some deep insight, that has to come from it's own. Otherwise, I > > do > > > NOT do readings, no one can even make me. People can also > > criticize > > > on my high prices of readings ($100-200, on average $150 or > > > somewhere) but it's just that I feel that my knowledge and > > labour > > > deserves that payment, I am in favour of working less but when I > > > work, I work good. For God's grace there is no complaint / > > > dissatisfaction from any of my paid customers as of yet. And > > many > > > trash things are going on around as astrology, with high prices, > > > just for their BIG NAMES and BIG GROUPS, and I know about their > > > knowledge fairly enough, so my ethics does not let me charge > > small. > > > > > > So anyone can call me businessman too... but I know I am > enough > > > strong financially and have no dependency on the money earned > > from > > > net. > > > > > > Anyway. > > > > > > Thanks for everyone, for your voices and being a part of JR > > family. > > > > > > Regards > > > Tanvir > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > remedies > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 That is life, Prafullaji. Jyotish or no jyotish. , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Rishi ji > > Believe me, i was looking for most effective lines for the day and I found it in your mail: > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe > rona aaya. > > Many thanks.. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > If you paint in your mind a picture of bright and happy expectations, you put yourself into a condition conducive to your goal. > > ************************************************ > > > > > > rishi_2000in > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 05:41:36 -0000 > > > > Re: Current situation- Some clarifications > > > > Ashutoshji, > > As an ordinary member who shares the concerns regarding this forum. > > I would say that Bhaskar is a passionate astrologer but going > > through a rough period in which he has managed to alienate almost > > everybody. > > There are two different issues here, > > One ,whether the Bhaskar ban is judicious and correct. A subissue of > > this is whether there should be a procedure to inflict punishment. > > > > Two,whether it was correct on the part of the new moderator to begin > > an innings in such a stormy fashion. What impression does it leave? > > Unwittingly the moderator, therefore, becomes an issue! > > > > The moderator is the decisionmaker. Most of the internet forums are > > run on the basis of moderator decision being final and I see no > > reason why this group should be an exception. The moderator needs to > > be more moderate.Never an easy task..... > > Every person has to do his/her duty according to one's own > > perceptions. > > As a poet said, > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe > > rona aaya. > > > > regards > > > > rishi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 The Island that managed to remain isolated despite all turbulence around must remain the envy of what we think of as the Mainland! , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > I was just looking for my today's quote for my diary ..(and signature message).. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > If you paint in your mind a picture of bright and happy expectations, you put yourself into a condition conducive to your goal. > > ************************************************ > > > > > > jyotish_vani > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 06:20:03 -0000 > > > > Re: Current situation- Some clarifications > > > > BUT despite all those <first person references> you wrote and shared > > with all of us in the forum openly!> > > > > WHY? > > > > Surely for an important reason, howsoever personal! > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Dear Rishi ji > >> > >> Believe me, i was looking for most effective lines for the day and > > I found it in your mail: > >> > >> Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe > >> rona aaya. > >> > >> Many thanks.. > >> > >> regards / Prafulla Gang > >> > >> If you paint in your mind a picture of bright and happy > > expectations, you put yourself into a condition conducive to your > > goal. > >> > >> ************************************************ > >> > >> > >>> > >>> rishi_2000in@ > >>> Sat, 16 Sep 2006 05:41:36 -0000 > >>> > >>> Re: Current situation- Some clarifications > >>> > >>> Ashutoshji, > >>> As an ordinary member who shares the concerns regarding this > > forum. > >>> I would say that Bhaskar is a passionate astrologer but going > >>> through a rough period in which he has managed to alienate almost > >>> everybody. > >>> There are two different issues here, > >>> One ,whether the Bhaskar ban is judicious and correct. A subissue > > of > >>> this is whether there should be a procedure to inflict punishment. > >>> > >>> Two,whether it was correct on the part of the new moderator to > > begin > >>> an innings in such a stormy fashion. What impression does it > > leave? > >>> Unwittingly the moderator, therefore, becomes an issue! > >>> > >>> The moderator is the decisionmaker. Most of the internet forums > > are > >>> run on the basis of moderator decision being final and I see no > >>> reason why this group should be an exception. The moderator needs > > to > >>> be more moderate.Never an easy task..... > >>> Every person has to do his/her duty according to one's own > >>> perceptions. > >>> As a poet said, > >>> Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat > > pe > >>> rona aaya. > >>> > >>> regards > >>> > >>> rishi > >> > > __________ > FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family! > Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 I have been a moderator on a system for years on Compuserve (New Age Forums with close to a million members in early 90s. Would not do for anything ever again!) and all I can say is this, Ashutosh: Are you out of your mind for accepting this crown of thorns? Your past posts do not indicate that, so obviously you know what you are doing! I am okay with that and am behind you and Tanvir, for what it is worth! Ranjan , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh wrote: > > Dear all, > > The action to ban Bhaskar was not born out of impatience. There is a valid reason behind it. > > There was the option of warning him. But, knowing the 'short-fuse' volatile nature of Bhaskar, what do you think would have been his reaction. The one who has personally attacked almost every contributing member in this group, would have politely accepted the warning? > > His words on my chat were," Main tab tak kisi ka kuchh nahin bigadta jab tak woh mera kuchh na bigade." meaning, "I do not harm anyone unless he harms me." This despite the fact that I was not even responding to him. Sensing further attacks from him, I ignored him from my messenger. > > Not to go too far, Bhaskar had indirectly attacked RRji yesterday in one of his mails. First he creates all kinds of angry moods, finds reasons to fight from other people's words and then when the water crosses his head, he cools down. This kind Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality has disturbed the peace in this group many times. He clearly shows that no one can point out his mistakes. He takes even simple advices as personal attacks. What can one do with a person who has a bare sword in his hand and is always ready to fight. > > If you go through the mails regarding Bhaskar's negative opinions about one nation, you will see that everyone was very polite and logical with him, but all his replies are full of will to fight and argue. He grew more and more adamant with each mail. Most of the members here see it as nothing abnormal because the nation in question has had bad relations with India. But, imagine if India and Bangladesh have some conflicts, should all Indians leave this group just because it is owned by an astrologer from Bangladesh. > > "Swadeshe pujyete raja, vidvan sarvatra pujyate" While the kings are respected in their own nations, the scholarly ones get respect all over the world. We cannot allow the personal, national, religious biases to hinder the growth of knowledge. > > The warnings are given when one has done a mistake and has the will to amend it. But, when one is ready with a sword to fight it out till the end, adamantly proving his own point again and again, the warnings only serve to incite him and his vociferousness. > > > Bhaskar's case is an exception. This is not applicable to everyone. Most of the members in this group have very less frequencies of angry outbursts. Everyone cannot and will not be treated in same way. > > > About my commercial motives. Bhaskar has never and can never be a challenge to me. Take it as my ego or whatever, I do not feel threatened by anyone's astrological powers in this group. My clientage is not here. Please remember it. > > It was Bhaskar who has been raising the issue of commercialisation every time. Indirectly or directly he has been showing his own needs to earn money from astrology. > > I have always maintained that I am a full time professional astrologer but I have never directly or indirectly seeked clients from this group. I had started using the signature line proclaiming my professional status only to keep the free advice seekers away from my private id. Despite that I receive around 15 mails each day which I have to ignore, warn or just delete. If you notice, I have not been using my signature line since past few weeks. My contributions have also gone down. > > Bhaskar may be a good astrologer, but he has some serious drawbacks. He does not know where to stop. An astrologer is respected not only for his knowledge but for his wisdom too. There is a big difference between knowledge and wisdom. Without wisdom knowledge can be very harmfull. > > An emotionally uncontrolled astrologer can be like a bull in a china shop. Irresponsible words, acts, rash motives and all, will be there. A doctor and an astrologer should have such a behaviour that half of the patient's or client's worries are reduced just by seeing him. A personally disturbed astrologer cannot properly guide anyone on right path. > > > The action to ban Bhaskar was taken not out of any personal grievances, but due to his own rash behaviour over last few months. We are in a group which is not ruled, governed, set by Indians only. It is a global group. Showing negative opinion for any perticular nation or religion amounts to striking at the very root of this group's foundation. The non-Indian members can get a feeling that tomorrow they can be discriminated against too. This will promt them not to contribute here any more. > > Democracy does not mean a free for all. There has to be some control somewhere. > > I say again, Bhaskar's case is an exception. He could not be warned, knowing his nature of retaliation. To avoid further ugly scenes and mutual angry dialogues, he had to be removed. > > Even before I could inform the group about his removal one member sent out his outcry. I sense that there is a feeling of insecurity among the contributing group members. But, those who know me and Tanvir are assured that we will take an action only as and when needed and up to the required intensity only. It is unfortunate that Bhaskar had to be removed. He still has the option open to apologise to whole group for his statements and he will be welcomed back with open arms. > > I have taken this action not as Astrologer Ashutosh, but as Moderator Ashutosh. Being a moderator is not in my best interests as a conributing astrologer. On 'valist' my contributions have dwindled after I was appointed moderator by Das Goravani. Now, I have to weigh all my words and statements thrice before sending out any post. Any action or word of mine can be taken as autocratic or full of self-interest. > > > If anyone feels that he can take up the responsibility of moderating this group without hurting anyone's feelings, he is welcome to take my place. I will be very happy to be just an astrologer contributer. > > > Best regards, > > Ashutosh > > > > > > > - > Tanvir Chowdhury > > Saturday, 16 September, 2006 00:20 > Current situation > > > Dear all, > > It is clear that there are some heat, or discussion on this forum > about the recent banning of > > Bhaskar Ji by newly appointed moderator Ashutosh Ji. (For everyone's > information, whoever might be mistaking, I did not ban Bhaskar Ji; > Ashutosh Ji did.) So I wanted to add my two bits of my input here. > We need to clarify a lot of things. > > Dear Arjun Ji, in one post you have written, > > "it is sad to note that tanvirji ignored the request of ALL MEMBERS > to give a warning first before banning a member." > > I have not ignored any request. I am very busy about my personal > life and unfortunately cannot concentrate about the forum that much > to precisely monitor what is going on and I believe that even > missing ONE message might lead a moderator to take a wrong decision. > That's why I have appointed Ashutosh Ji as a new moderator, for few > reasons : He is a good astrologer, this is needed for a moderator > because he has to resist the filths that comes as astrology (Like I > believe I have done the correct when I banned SA from this forum). > secondly so far I have known him, I watch him as a mature, tolerant, > logical and unbiased person, which is needed for moderation. The > last two qualities are very needed. (Of course many I know will > disagre about his tolerance and maturity for the recent banning, of > course views differ.) And also that he showed the concern about > group by writing me personally... often there are arguments beyond > the limit, and even spam mails, porn advertisements but no one wrote > to me but now at least he did. > > Now as the banning of Prashant Kumar Ji, I had received a few > complaints about him and as I did not follow the posts regularly I > recognized the complaints (as there was more than one person > compaining) and so banned him. I could NOT give a warning because it > would need further monitoring which I was unable of doing. And I did > know that my decision might be wrong AND that is the reason I asked > freely about your opinion and as soon as I had received positive > feedback, I had removed the ban and requested him to join again. Had > I investigated the matter more, or thought my decision to be final, > I would not have asked for your comments / votes. But I knew that I > might be wrong that is why I kept the room for being flexible. > > Personally I am always against of banning and the most I do (In > general) is to disable one's posting and still let him/her be in the > forum. > > Here I have given the power to Ashutosh Ji to ban someone because if > someone has given some responsibility he must be given the power and > authority otherwise he cannot carry out his job. > > I believe Ashutosh Ji will use his authority and decisions with > tolerance and maturity, of course and I believe you all will > cooperate him in this matter. > > He might as well consider the step by step procedure suggested by > you as well. Personally I am in favour of using this steps before > banning someone. However, as I have given HIM the responsibility, I > would like to let HIM decide and not burden my own style on him. > > I also feel that a message should be delivered announcing the ban of > the member and explaining the reasons, after the ban is executed. > > Regarding financial interests about astrology, I do not think it to > be bad. A person might be thinking that his wisdom, knowledge or > whatever he has is worth selling, if others are willing to buy. > Giving free readings cannot assure that one is noble. One can be > very fair even after offering only paid readings and one can be a > deceiver / unethical even through free readings. I personally really > do not remember when for the last time I had replied to a mail > requesting free reading. It is of course more than six months, or > even close to a year. So, will people say that I am a businessman? > Some will, surely. But they will NOT do anymore after learning that > one person is after me for a PAID READING for more than 4-5 months > and another person is on the queue for one month and another is for > 20 days or so. All paid readings, from where I would earn money. > > So it is all about being busy, and the reading needs mental energy, > some deep insight, that has to come from it's own. Otherwise, I do > NOT do readings, no one can even make me. People can also criticize > on my high prices of readings ($100-200, on average $150 or > somewhere) but it's just that I feel that my knowledge and labour > deserves that payment, I am in favour of working less but when I > work, I work good. For God's grace there is no complaint / > dissatisfaction from any of my paid customers as of yet. And many > trash things are going on around as astrology, with high prices, > just for their BIG NAMES and BIG GROUPS, and I know about their > knowledge fairly enough, so my ethics does not let me charge small. > > So anyone can call me businessman too... but I know I am enough > strong financially and have no dependency on the money earned from > net. > > Anyway. > > Thanks for everyone, for your voices and being a part of JR family. > > Regards > Tanvir > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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