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Priya Arjun bhai!

 

More than many bonds and connections that lie between us -- the one

true bond that we share is that which bonds us through the wonderful

healing energy that goes back to the original tradition of the 21

days spent on the ancient energy spot of the Mountain!

 

Please never ever feel that we have separate sacred territories, for

there is a lot of sacredness in this reality but no territories. Ever!

 

You know I must not even talk about sacred symbols here but you know

which one I am thinking of right now! I have often wondered why it

looks as if it is carrying a heavy load! I think I know why --

because the load can be rather heavy! It is sad that we have had to

experience that in our lifetimes.

 

Peace,

 

Rohiniranjan

 

, "panditarjun2004"

<panditarjun2004 wrote:

>

> dear prafullaji

>

> your reminding me of being off the thread by intruding on the

> message owned and started by RRji makes me withdraw from any

further

> contribution from this thread. by the way the one and only reason

i

> replied from that message from RRji was because, that was the last

> mail i could find on the continued thread of your first mail for

> which i responded.

>

> you are also ambivalent in your mails because in each mail you are

> saying that we are not discussing jyotish and yet you are actively

> contributing in each thread. as for myself, i have no hesitation

in

> telling publicly that i do contribute in all threads wherever i

> could add few words, be it jyotish or non-jyotish. so i dont

> suggent any separate group or withdrawal for discussions on non-

> jyotish knowledge.

>

> with best wishes

> pandit arjun

>

> , "Prafulla Gang"

> <jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pandit Arjun ji,

> >

> > Little off the thread (as this thread was message from Ranjan ji

> to me).

> >

> > It may look like my observation, but any history student (or

> history

> > of various religions / sects like - Sikhism, Jainism, Budhism,

Arya

> > Samaj etc) can vouch for the exploitation of society at large by

> > Karamkandi Brahmans. Unfortunately, some of these practioners (I

> > repeat - not the religion, rituals) have exploited society. If

one

> can

> > go to any rural area, and can see, how these ritualistic demands

> from

> > ""godly" people, have ruined families.

> >

> > What I stated is history. and just like such religious preachings

> need

> > another dedicated forum, the history narration too deserve some

> corner

> > there. But certainly not the jyotish forum!!

> >

> > regards / Prafulla Gang

> >

> > , "panditarjun2004"

> > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > >

> > > dear prafullaji

> > >

> > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have

> grabbed

> > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described

> as

> > > your personal observation as it is not a fact.

> > >

> > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their

> personal

> > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and

> > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations

> are

> > > aberrations seen in isolation.

> > >

> > > let me put some facts which none can deny:

> > >

> > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any

> > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL

people

> in

> > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy

> knowledge

> > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the

> > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of

> consecration.

> > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer

> land

> > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in

all

> > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are

> gifted

> > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to

> live

> > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these

> brahmins

> > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and

> > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills

> > >

> > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the

> > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching.

> > >

> > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and

> > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that

the

> > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and

> leningrad

> > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches

> but

> > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious

> propaganda)

> > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as

> some

> > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non

brahmins

> > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most

> civil

> > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to

> reservation,

> > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a

> large

> > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these

> brahmins.

> > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime

> ago

> > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for

brahmins.

> > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters,

> headmaster

> > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in

US

> and

> > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT,

> engineering or

> > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99%

> of

> > > these younger intelligent generation are in US.

> > >

> > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not

> switched to

> > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in

poverty.

> > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or

> > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway

> station

> > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages.

> this

> > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which

> are

> > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy

> noble

> > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called

educated

> > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists.

> > >

> > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to

> leave

> > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people

> > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are

non

> > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human

> > > beings equally as god.

> > >

> > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few

> individuals at

> > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far

> from

> > > truth.

> > >

> > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate

> > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some

> > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now

> poojaris

> > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and

> to

> > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge

> monies.

> > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal

construction

> are

> > > done by non-brahmins.

> > >

> > > with best wishes

> > > pandit arjun

> > >

> > > , "crystal pages"

> > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Personally ...?

> > > > Dear Prafulla,

> > > >

> > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few

> > > options,

> > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime!

> > > >

> > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the

> reality

> > > of

> > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the

> > > little

> > > > time we have in this lifetime?

> > > >

> > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have

seen

> so

> > > far?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "Prafulla Gang"

> > > > <jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Ranjan ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Very well said.

> > > > >

> > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between

> relgion

> > > and

> > > > its

> > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems)

> itself,

> > > I

> > > > was

> > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each

> belief

> > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization

> of

> > > some

> > > > of

> > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or

white

> in

> > > it.

> > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common

> person

> > > like

> > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it.

> > > > >

> > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) -

> who,

> > > for

> > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's

very "faith".

> and

> > > in

> > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses.

> For

> > > > Example

> > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in

> India

> > > has

> > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where

> > > people

> > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on

> deaths

> > > in

> > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well

> by

> > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion

> never

> > > > becomes

> > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do

> cause

> > > some

> > > > of

> > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in

India -

>

> > > > perhaps,

> > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism,

> Budhism,

> > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc).

> > > > >

> > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its

> > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its

> > > compliance

> > > > can

> > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also

> do not

> > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the

> rituals

> > > in

> > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga.

> This

> > > > often

> > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most

> cases

> > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe

> > > > the "short

> > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are

> > > > collected,

> > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands,

people

> on

> > > day

> > > > to

> > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the

> benefits

> > > > of "few"

> > > > > and so on.

> > > > >

> > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear"

> > > created

> > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >

> > > > > , "crystal pages"

> > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Prafulla,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different

> belief

> > > > systems,

> > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda

> as

> > > you

> > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into

> grey

> > > > magic

> > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background

> > > > (religious,

> > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances

> or

> > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of

> acceptance'

> > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really

> be

> > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards

(this

> is

> > > a

> > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it

personally).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of

> > > belief

> > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily

> demonstrable

> > > and

> > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting'

> ways

> > > of

> > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the

> horizon

> > > > would

> > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin

> to

> > > > fight,

> > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what

we

> > > > consider

> > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are

> > > enough

> > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self

> and

> > > touch

> > > > and

> > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they

> always

> > > do.

> > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and

> > > beliefs

> > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical

> > > > considerations

> > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to

> reason

> > > > things

> > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour

> to

> > > > appeal

> > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily

> knowers or

> > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a

> > > > question of

> > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what

> is

> > > true

> > > > and

> > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely

> based

> > > on

> > > > my

> > > > > > personal belief ;-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang"

> > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do

> with "Jyotish".

> > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct

> (very

> > > > small

> > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The

> > > issue

> > > > is -

> > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which

> is

> > > > missing?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on

> > > events

> > > > like

> > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of

> > > pursuits?

> > > > Even

> > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India

> as

> > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole

> > > time "business".

> > > > > > Almost

> > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have

> made a

> > > > big

> > > > > > mess

> > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother

> about

> > > the

> > > > wrong

> > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know

> the

> > > > correct

> > > > > > Ones

> > > > > > > !!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> , "panditarjun2004"

> > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some

> temples

> > > who

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > doing this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it

> is

> > > > believed

> > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall

> on

> > > > them.

> > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan

period,

> > > nay,

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the

> > > divine

> > > > idol

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti

> temple

> > > in

> > > > > > andhra

> > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during

the

> > > grahan

> > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat

> > > strage)

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during

> the

> > > > grahan

> > > > > > time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall

> keep

> > > doing

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others

> are

> > > > doing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > pandit arjun

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , "Prafulla

> Gang"

> > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will

> explicitly

> > > > tell

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > that,

> > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given

day;

> and

> > > so

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on

> > > Eclipses

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > lesser

> > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are

> very "few"

> > > > people -

> > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic"

methods

> of

> > > > > > performing

> > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in

> their

> > > own

> > > > > > > > pursuits

> > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most

> in

> > > the

> > > > lot

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event

> > > driven

> > > > > > > > rituals, in

> > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these

> occasions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > , angel

> > > <angelgoel@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan

> > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning),

do

> not

> > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > angel

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please.

> > > > > > > > > > > ms

> > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir.

> > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends

> itself,

> > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour

> 33

> > > > > > > > > > > > minutes.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends

> > > > > > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight

> > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will

> end

> > > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar

> eclipse is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September

> 6th

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ms

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR

2006

> > > > > > > > > > > a.d.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on

> 25.08

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course

no

> > > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all

> devout

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are

> > > > > > > > > > > > requested

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their

> Isht

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or

food

> in

> > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > period,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything,

> have

> > > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near

> > > > > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in

> places

> > > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained

> > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse),

> has

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to

a

> > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact

> > > > > > > > > > > figure

> > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts ,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been

given

> in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot

> remember

> > > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of

> > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE

> > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

my dear RR ji

 

somehow am hesitating to write these personal touching words

publicly. continued consistency has been the hallmark of very few

members who can be counted on fingers and let us do what best we can

in our own ways. truly you and i have earned lot of punyam.

 

you were enquiring about our dear brother krishnanji. he got

relocated to jaipur few months ago and is very busy there and

finding no time for astro contributions. hope another relocation

would give him ample time to be with all of us again very soon and

it is my prediction as well as wish.

 

with best wishes

pandit arjun

 

, "crystal pages"

<jyotish_vani wrote:

>

> Priya Arjun bhai!

>

> More than many bonds and connections that lie between us -- the

one

> true bond that we share is that which bonds us through the

wonderful

> healing energy that goes back to the original tradition of the 21

> days spent on the ancient energy spot of the Mountain!

>

> Please never ever feel that we have separate sacred territories,

for

> there is a lot of sacredness in this reality but no territories.

Ever!

>

> You know I must not even talk about sacred symbols here but you

know

> which one I am thinking of right now! I have often wondered why it

> looks as if it is carrying a heavy load! I think I know why --

> because the load can be rather heavy! It is sad that we have had

to

> experience that in our lifetimes.

>

> Peace,

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , "panditarjun2004"

> <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> >

> > dear prafullaji

> >

> > your reminding me of being off the thread by intruding on the

> > message owned and started by RRji makes me withdraw from any

> further

> > contribution from this thread. by the way the one and only

reason

> i

> > replied from that message from RRji was because, that was the

last

> > mail i could find on the continued thread of your first mail for

> > which i responded.

> >

> > you are also ambivalent in your mails because in each mail you

are

> > saying that we are not discussing jyotish and yet you are

actively

> > contributing in each thread. as for myself, i have no

hesitation

> in

> > telling publicly that i do contribute in all threads wherever i

> > could add few words, be it jyotish or non-jyotish. so i dont

> > suggent any separate group or withdrawal for discussions on non-

> > jyotish knowledge.

> >

> > with best wishes

> > pandit arjun

> >

> > , "Prafulla Gang"

> > <jyotish@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji,

> > >

> > > Little off the thread (as this thread was message from Ranjan

ji

> > to me).

> > >

> > > It may look like my observation, but any history student (or

> > history

> > > of various religions / sects like - Sikhism, Jainism, Budhism,

> Arya

> > > Samaj etc) can vouch for the exploitation of society at large

by

> > > Karamkandi Brahmans. Unfortunately, some of these practioners

(I

> > > repeat - not the religion, rituals) have exploited society. If

> one

> > can

> > > go to any rural area, and can see, how these ritualistic

demands

> > from

> > > ""godly" people, have ruined families.

> > >

> > > What I stated is history. and just like such religious

preachings

> > need

> > > another dedicated forum, the history narration too deserve

some

> > corner

> > > there. But certainly not the jyotish forum!!

> > >

> > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >

> > > , "panditarjun2004"

> > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear prafullaji

> > > >

> > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have

> > grabbed

> > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be

described

> > as

> > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact.

> > > >

> > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their

> > personal

> > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding

and

> > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such

observations

> > are

> > > > aberrations seen in isolation.

> > > >

> > > > let me put some facts which none can deny:

> > > >

> > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered

any

> > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL

> people

> > in

> > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy

> > knowledge

> > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of

the

> > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of

> > consecration.

> > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer

> > land

> > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in

> all

> > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are

> > gifted

> > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to

> > live

> > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these

> > brahmins

> > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people

and

> > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills

> > > >

> > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by

the

> > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching.

> > > >

> > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism

and

> > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that

> the

> > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and

> > leningrad

> > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to

churches

> > but

> > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious

> > propaganda)

> > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris

as

> > some

> > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non

> brahmins

> > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most

> > civil

> > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to

> > reservation,

> > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still

a

> > large

> > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these

> > brahmins.

> > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority,

sometime

> > ago

> > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for

> brahmins.

> > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters,

> > headmaster

> > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute

in

> US

> > and

> > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT,

> > engineering or

> > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that

99%

> > of

> > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US.

> > > >

> > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not

> > switched to

> > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in

> poverty.

> > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing

or

> > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway

> > station

> > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily

wages.

> > this

> > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions

which

> > are

> > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy

> > noble

> > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called

> educated

> > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists.

> > > >

> > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to

> > leave

> > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering

people

> > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are

> non

> > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all

human

> > > > beings equally as god.

> > > >

> > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few

> > individuals at

> > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is

far

> > from

> > > > truth.

> > > >

> > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant

illiterate

> > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in

some

> > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now

> > poojaris

> > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing

and

> > to

> > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge

> > monies.

> > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal

> construction

> > are

> > > > done by non-brahmins.

> > > >

> > > > with best wishes

> > > > pandit arjun

> > > >

> > > > , "crystal pages"

> > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Personally ...?

> > > > > Dear Prafulla,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so

few

> > > > options,

> > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime!

> > > > >

> > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the

> > reality

> > > > of

> > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste

the

> > > > little

> > > > > time we have in this lifetime?

> > > > >

> > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have

> seen

> > so

> > > > far?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , "Prafulla Gang"

> > > > > <jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Very well said.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between

> > relgion

> > > > and

> > > > > its

> > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems)

> > itself,

> > > > I

> > > > > was

> > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for

each

> > belief

> > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about

rationalization

> > of

> > > > some

> > > > > of

> > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or

> white

> > in

> > > > it.

> > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common

> > person

> > > > like

> > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief

system) -

> > who,

> > > > for

> > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's

> very "faith".

> > and

> > > > in

> > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of

masses.

> > For

> > > > > Example

> > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc)

in

> > India

> > > > has

> > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India -

where

> > > > people

> > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including

on

> > deaths

> > > > in

> > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as

well

> > by

> > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion

> > never

> > > > > becomes

> > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do

> > cause

> > > > some

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in

> India -

> >

> > > > > perhaps,

> > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism,

> > Budhism,

> > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted,

its

> > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its

> > > > compliance

> > > > > can

> > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans

also

> > do not

> > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the

> > rituals

> > > > in

> > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current

yuga.

> > This

> > > > > often

> > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in

most

> > cases

> > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and

observe

> > > > > the "short

> > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities

are

> > > > > collected,

> > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands,

> people

> > on

> > > > day

> > > > > to

> > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the

> > benefits

> > > > > of "few"

> > > > > > and so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but

somehow "fear"

> > > > created

> > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , "crystal pages"

> > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Prafulla,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different

> > belief

> > > > > systems,

> > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals

(karmakanda

> > as

> > > > you

> > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend

into

> > grey

> > > > > magic

> > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different

background

> > > > > (religious,

> > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different

tolerances

> > or

> > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of

> > acceptance'

> > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would

really

> > be

> > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards

> (this

> > is

> > > > a

> > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it

> personally).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter

of

> > > > belief

> > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily

> > demonstrable

> > > > and

> > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into

more 'accepting'

> > ways

> > > > of

> > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the

> > horizon

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals

begin

> > to

> > > > > fight,

> > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in

what

> we

> > > > > consider

> > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there

are

> > > > enough

> > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of

self

> > and

> > > > touch

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they

> > always

> > > > do.

> > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason

and

> > > > beliefs

> > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical

> > > > > considerations

> > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like

to

> > reason

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious

flavour

> > to

> > > > > appeal

> > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more

forgiving.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily

> > knowers or

> > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is

not a

> > > > > question of

> > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows

what

> > is

> > > > true

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely

> > based

> > > > on

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > personal belief ;-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > RR

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , "Prafulla

Gang"

> > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do

> > with "Jyotish".

> > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between

correct

> > (very

> > > > > small

> > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population).

The

> > > > issue

> > > > > is -

> > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its

adherence..which

> > is

> > > > > missing?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even

on

> > > > events

> > > > > like

> > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity"

of

> > > > pursuits?

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in

India

> > as

> > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole

> > > > time "business".

> > > > > > > Almost

> > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???)

have

> > made a

> > > > > big

> > > > > > > mess

> > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother

> > about

> > > > the

> > > > > wrong

> > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I

know

> > the

> > > > > correct

> > > > > > > Ones

> > > > > > > > !!!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > , "panditarjun2004"

> > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some

> > temples

> > > > who

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > doing this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that

it

> > is

> > > > > believed

> > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow

fall

> > on

> > > > > them.

> > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan

> period,

> > > > nay,

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for

the

> > > > divine

> > > > > idol

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however,

kalahasti

> > temple

> > > > in

> > > > > > > andhra

> > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during

> the

> > > > grahan

> > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT

(somewhat

> > > > strage)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas

during

> > the

> > > > > grahan

> > > > > > > time.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall

> > keep

> > > > doing

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how

others

> > are

> > > > > doing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > pandit arjun

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla

> > Gang"

> > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will

> > explicitly

> > > > > tell

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > that,

> > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given

> day;

> > and

> > > > so

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on

> > > > Eclipses

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > lesser

> > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are

> > very "few"

> > > > > people -

> > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic"

> methods

> > of

> > > > > > > performing

> > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time

in

> > their

> > > > own

> > > > > > > > > pursuits

> > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma").

Most

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > lot

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from

event

> > > > driven

> > > > > > > > > rituals, in

> > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these

> > occasions.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > , angel

> > > > <angelgoel@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan

> > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday

morning),

> do

> > not

> > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > thanks

> > > > > > > > > > > angel

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please.

> > > > > > > > > > > > ms

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends

> > itself,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1

hour

> > 33

> > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it

ends

> > > > > > > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so

will

> > end

> > > > > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ,

Manoj

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar

> > eclipse is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of

September

> > 6th

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR

> 2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > a.d.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September

7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night

on

> > 25.08

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of

course

> no

> > > > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all

> > devout

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me)

are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > requested

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of

their

> > Isht

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or

> food

> > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch

anything,

> > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to

sleep

> > > > > > > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea),

near

> > > > > > > > > > > > > religious

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in

> > places

> > > > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained

> > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana

(Eclipse),

> > has

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue

to

> a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The

exact

> > > > > > > > > > > > figure

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts ,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been

> given

> > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot

> > remember

> > > > > > > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE

ULTIMATE

> > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE

BLISS.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >