Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Personally ...? Dear Prafulla, I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few options, such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality of others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the little time we have in this lifetime? Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so far? RR , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > Very well said. > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion and its > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, I was > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of some of > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in it. > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person like > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, for > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and in > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For Example > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India has > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where people > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths in > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never becomes > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause some of > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - perhaps, > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its compliance can > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals in > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This often > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe the "short > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are collected, > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on day to > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits of "few" > and so on. > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" created > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief systems, > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as you > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey magic > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background (religious, > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is a > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of belief > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable and > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways of > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon would > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to fight, > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we consider > > reality which is generally very personal though there are enough > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and touch and > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always do. > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and beliefs > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical considerations > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason things > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to appeal > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a question of > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is true and > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based on my > > personal belief ;-) > > > > RR > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very small > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The issue is - > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is missing? > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on events like > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of pursuits? Even > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > authorities, are just making this their whole time "business". > > Almost > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a big > > mess > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about the wrong > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the correct > > Ones > > > !!! > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples who are > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is believed > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on them. > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, nay, an > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the divine idol > > to > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple in > > andhra > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the grahan > > time > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat strage) and > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the grahan > > time. > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep doing > > what > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are doing. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly tell > > you > > > > that, > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and so is > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on Eclipses has > > > > lesser > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" people - > > who > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > performing > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their own > > > > pursuits > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in the lot > > are > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event driven > > > > rituals, in > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , angel <angelgoel@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji You are very correct. We do not have much time to look at others. They are not even worth the considerations. I agree and whole heartedly to your approach. But you will agree that, we must have weekends (breaks !!) and little time for spices too. regards / Prafulla , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Personally ...? > Dear Prafulla, > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few options, > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality of > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the little > time we have in this lifetime? > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so far? > > > RR > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > Very well said. > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion and > its > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, I > was > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of some > of > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in it. > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person like > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, for > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and in > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > Example > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India has > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where people > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths in > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > becomes > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause some > of > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > perhaps, > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its compliance > can > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals in > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > often > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > the "short > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > collected, > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on day > to > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > of "few" > > and so on. > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" created > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > systems, > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as you > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > magic > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > (religious, > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is a > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of belief > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable and > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways of > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > would > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > fight, > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > consider > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are enough > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and touch > and > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always do. > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and beliefs > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > considerations > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > things > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > appeal > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > question of > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is true > and > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based on > my > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > small > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The issue > is - > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > missing? > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on events > like > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of pursuits? > Even > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole time "business". > > > Almost > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a > big > > > mess > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about the > wrong > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > correct > > > Ones > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples who > are > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > believed > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > them. > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, nay, > an > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the divine > idol > > > to > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple in > > > andhra > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the grahan > > > time > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat strage) > and > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > grahan > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep doing > > > what > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > doing. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > tell > > > you > > > > > that, > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and so > is > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on Eclipses > has > > > > > lesser > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > people - > > > who > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > performing > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their own > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in the > lot > > > are > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event driven > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel <angelgoel@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 dear prafullaji you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described as your personal observation as it is not a fact. in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal views as they observe in their experience and understanding and expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are aberrations seen in isolation. let me put some facts which none can deny: centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people in their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy knowledge and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of consecration. kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are gifted few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these brahmins also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the best communist country russia is now full of churches and leningrad becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as some state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to reservation, around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a large hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime ago mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US and 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering or medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% of these younger intelligent generation are in US. in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched to other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway station waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. this is only because they have not adapted to the professions which are in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated scientists but also painted bad by the communists. having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to leave my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human beings equally as god. prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals at best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far from truth. in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now poojaris in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge monies. most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction are done by non-brahmins. with best wishes pandit arjun , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Personally ...? > Dear Prafulla, > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few options, > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality of > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the little > time we have in this lifetime? > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so far? > > > RR > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > Very well said. > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion and > its > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, I > was > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of some > of > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in it. > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person like > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, for > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and in > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > Example > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India has > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where people > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths in > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > becomes > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause some > of > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > perhaps, > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its compliance > can > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals in > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > often > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > the "short > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > collected, > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on day > to > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > of "few" > > and so on. > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" created > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > systems, > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as you > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > magic > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > (religious, > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is a > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of belief > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable and > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways of > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > would > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > fight, > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > consider > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are enough > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and touch > and > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always do. > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and beliefs > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > considerations > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > things > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > appeal > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > question of > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is true > and > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based on > my > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > small > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The issue > is - > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > missing? > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on events > like > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of pursuits? > Even > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole time "business". > > > Almost > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a > big > > > mess > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about the > wrong > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > correct > > > Ones > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples who > are > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > believed > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > them. > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, nay, > an > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the divine > idol > > > to > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple in > > > andhra > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the grahan > > > time > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat strage) > and > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > grahan > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep doing > > > what > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > doing. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > tell > > > you > > > > > that, > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and so > is > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on Eclipses > has > > > > > lesser > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > people - > > > who > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > performing > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their own > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in the > lot > > > are > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event driven > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel <angelgoel@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all these plights are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is compunding. regards / Prafulla Gang , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear prafullaji > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described as > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > aberrations seen in isolation. > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people in > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy knowledge > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of consecration. > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are gifted > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these brahmins > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > best communist country russia is now full of churches and leningrad > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as some > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to reservation, > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a large > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime ago > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US and > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering or > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% of > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched to > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway station > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. this > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which are > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to leave > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > beings equally as god. > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals at > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far from > truth. > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now poojaris > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge monies. > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction are > done by non-brahmins. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Personally ...? > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > options, > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality > of > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > little > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so > far? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > and > > its > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, > I > > was > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > some > > of > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in > it. > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person > like > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, > for > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and > in > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > Example > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India > has > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > people > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths > in > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > > becomes > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > some > > of > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > perhaps, > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > compliance > > can > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals > in > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > > often > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > the "short > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > collected, > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on > day > > to > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > of "few" > > > and so on. > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > created > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > systems, > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > you > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > > magic > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > (religious, > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is > a > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > belief > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable > and > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways > of > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > > would > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > > fight, > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > consider > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > enough > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > touch > > and > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always > do. > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > beliefs > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > considerations > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > > things > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > > appeal > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > question of > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > true > > and > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based > on > > my > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > > small > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > issue > > is - > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > events > > like > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > pursuits? > > Even > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > time "business". > > > > Almost > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a > > big > > > > mess > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about > the > > wrong > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > correct > > > > Ones > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > who > > are > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > believed > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > > them. > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > nay, > > an > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > divine > > idol > > > > to > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple > in > > > > andhra > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > grahan > > > > time > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > strage) > > and > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > > grahan > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > doing > > > > what > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > > tell > > > > you > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and > so > > is > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > Eclipses > > has > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > > people - > > > > who > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > > performing > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their > own > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > the > > lot > > > > are > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > driven > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > <angelgoel@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Prafulla, We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as being the tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and insurmountable, but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some ripe, others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and succour and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future (lifetimes)! And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the Deity of our choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree we are up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious reasons!! RR , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all these plights > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is compunding. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described as > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people in > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy knowledge > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of consecration. > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are gifted > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these brahmins > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and leningrad > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as some > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to reservation, > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a large > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime ago > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US and > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering or > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% of > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched to > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway station > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. this > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which are > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to leave > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > > beings equally as god. > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals at > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far from > > truth. > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now poojaris > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge monies. > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction are > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > > options, > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality > > of > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > > little > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so > > far? > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > > and > > > its > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, > > I > > > was > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > > some > > > of > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in > > it. > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person > > like > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, > > for > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and > > in > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > > Example > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India > > has > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > > people > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths > > in > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > > > becomes > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > > some > > > of > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > > perhaps, > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > compliance > > > can > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals > > in > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > > > often > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > > the "short > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > > collected, > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on > > day > > > to > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > > of "few" > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > > created > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > > systems, > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > > you > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > > > magic > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > > (religious, > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is > > a > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > > belief > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable > > and > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways > > of > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > > > would > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > > > fight, > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > > consider > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > > enough > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > > touch > > > and > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always > > do. > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > > beliefs > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > considerations > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > > > things > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > > > appeal > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > > question of > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > > true > > > and > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based > > on > > > my > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > > > small > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > > issue > > > is - > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > > events > > > like > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > pursuits? > > > Even > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > time "business". > > > > > Almost > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a > > > big > > > > > mess > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about > > the > > > wrong > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > > correct > > > > > Ones > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > > who > > > are > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > > believed > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > > > them. > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > > nay, > > > an > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > > divine > > > idol > > > > > to > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple > > in > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > > grahan > > > > > time > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > strage) > > > and > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > > > grahan > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > > doing > > > > > what > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > > > tell > > > > > you > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and > > so > > > is > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > Eclipses > > > has > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > > > people - > > > > > who > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their > > own > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > > the > > > lot > > > > > are > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > > driven > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji, Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish (?) and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself lucky for your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only for your presence. You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such non jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can realize this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. This has become market place. regards / Prafulla , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Prafulla, > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as being the > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and insurmountable, > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some ripe, > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and succour > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future (lifetimes)! > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the Deity of our > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree we are > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious reasons!! > > RR > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all these > plights > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is compunding. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described > as > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people > in > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > knowledge > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > consecration. > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are > gifted > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > brahmins > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > leningrad > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > some > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > reservation, > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > large > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime > ago > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US > and > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering > or > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% > of > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched > to > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway > station > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. > this > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which > are > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to > leave > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals > at > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far > from > > > truth. > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > poojaris > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > monies. > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction > are > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > > > options, > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > reality > > > of > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > > > little > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen > so > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > > > and > > > > its > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) > itself, > > > I > > > > was > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > belief > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > > > some > > > > of > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white > in > > > it. > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common > person > > > like > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - > who, > > > for > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". > and > > > in > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > > > Example > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in > India > > > has > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > > > people > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on > deaths > > > in > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion > never > > > > becomes > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > > > some > > > > of > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > > > perhaps, > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, > Budhism, > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > > compliance > > > > can > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do > not > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > rituals > > > in > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. > This > > > > often > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most > cases > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > > > the "short > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > > > collected, > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people > on > > > day > > > > to > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > > > of "few" > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > > > created > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > > > systems, > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > > > you > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into > grey > > > > magic > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > > > (religious, > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances > or > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > acceptance' > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this > is > > > a > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > > > belief > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > demonstrable > > > and > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' > ways > > > of > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the > horizon > > > > would > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin > to > > > > fight, > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > > > consider > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > > > enough > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > > > touch > > > > and > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they > always > > > do. > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > > > beliefs > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > > considerations > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to > reason > > > > things > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour > to > > > > appeal > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers > or > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > > > question of > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > > > true > > > > and > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely > based > > > on > > > > my > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct > (very > > > > small > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > > > issue > > > > is - > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > > > events > > > > like > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > > pursuits? > > > > Even > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > time "business". > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have > made a > > > > big > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother > about > > > the > > > > wrong > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > > > correct > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > > > who > > > > are > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > > > believed > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall > on > > > > them. > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > > > nay, > > > > an > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > > > divine > > > > idol > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > temple > > > in > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > > > grahan > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > > strage) > > > > and > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during > the > > > > grahan > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > > > doing > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others > are > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > Gang" > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > explicitly > > > > tell > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; > and > > > so > > > > is > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > > Eclipses > > > > has > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > very "few" > > > > people - > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods > of > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in > their > > > own > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > > > the > > > > lot > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > > > driven > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do > not > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will > end > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food > in > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, > have > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the reality that I want it to be. If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who was distracted! This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal experience, Prafulla! RR , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish (?) > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself lucky for > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only for your > presence. > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such non > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can realize > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. This has > become market place. > > regards / Prafulla > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as being the > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and insurmountable, > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some ripe, > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and succour > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future (lifetimes)! > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the Deity of our > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree we are > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious reasons!! > > > > RR > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all these > > plights > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is compunding. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described > > as > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people > > in > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > knowledge > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > consecration. > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are > > gifted > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > brahmins > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > leningrad > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > > some > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > reservation, > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > > large > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime > > ago > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US > > and > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering > > or > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% > > of > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched > > to > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway > > station > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. > > this > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which > > are > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to > > leave > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals > > at > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far > > from > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > poojaris > > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > monies. > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction > > are > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > > > > options, > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > > reality > > > > of > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > > > > little > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen > > so > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > > > > and > > > > > its > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) > > itself, > > > > I > > > > > was > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > > belief > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > > > > some > > > > > of > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white > > in > > > > it. > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common > > person > > > > like > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - > > who, > > > > for > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". > > and > > > > in > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > > > > Example > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in > > India > > > > has > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > > > > people > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on > > deaths > > > > in > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion > > never > > > > > becomes > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > > > > some > > > > > of > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, > > Budhism, > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > > > compliance > > > > > can > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do > > not > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > > rituals > > > > in > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. > > This > > > > > often > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most > > cases > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > > > > the "short > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > > > > collected, > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people > > on > > > > day > > > > > to > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > > > > created > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > > > > you > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into > > grey > > > > > magic > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances > > or > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > acceptance' > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this > > is > > > > a > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > > > > belief > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > demonstrable > > > > and > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' > > ways > > > > of > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the > > horizon > > > > > would > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin > > to > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > > > > consider > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > > > > enough > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > > > > touch > > > > > and > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they > > always > > > > do. > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to > > reason > > > > > things > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour > > to > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers > > or > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > > > > question of > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > > > > true > > > > > and > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely > > based > > > > on > > > > > my > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct > > (very > > > > > small > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > > > > issue > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > > > > events > > > > > like > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > > > pursuits? > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have > > made a > > > > > big > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother > > about > > > > the > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > > > > correct > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > > > > who > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall > > on > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > > > > nay, > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > > > > divine > > > > > idol > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > > temple > > > > in > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > > > > grahan > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > > > strage) > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during > > the > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > > > > doing > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others > > are > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > explicitly > > > > > tell > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; > > and > > > > so > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > > > Eclipses > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > very "few" > > > > > people - > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods > > of > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in > > their > > > > own > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > > > > the > > > > > lot > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do > > not > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Prafullaji, That is the 'spin and the span' of Ranjanji's Jyotisha writings, one has to be on toes always! rishi , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the reality that > I want it to be. > > If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who was > distracted! > > This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal experience, > Prafulla! > > RR > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish (?) > > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself lucky > for > > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only for > your > > presence. > > > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to > > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such non > > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its > > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can realize > > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. This > has > > become market place. > > > > regards / Prafulla > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as being > the > > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and > insurmountable, > > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some > ripe, > > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and > succour > > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future > (lifetimes)! > > > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the Deity of > our > > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree we > are > > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious reasons!! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all these > > > plights > > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is > compunding. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > grabbed > > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be > described > > > as > > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > personal > > > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding > and > > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations > are > > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered > any > > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL > people > > > in > > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > > knowledge > > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > > consecration. > > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer > land > > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in > all > > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are > > > gifted > > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to > live > > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > > brahmins > > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people > and > > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by > the > > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism > and > > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that > the > > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > > leningrad > > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches > but > > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > propaganda) > > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > > > some > > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non > brahmins > > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most > civil > > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > > reservation, > > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > > > large > > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > brahmins. > > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, > sometime > > > ago > > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for > brahmins. > > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > headmaster > > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in > US > > > and > > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > engineering > > > or > > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that > 99% > > > of > > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > switched > > > to > > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in > poverty. > > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing > or > > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway > > > station > > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily > wages. > > > this > > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions > which > > > are > > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy > noble > > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called > educated > > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to > > > leave > > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are > non > > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all > human > > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > individuals > > > at > > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is > far > > > from > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant > illiterate > > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in > some > > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > > poojaris > > > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing > and to > > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > > monies. > > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > construction > > > are > > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so > few > > > > > options, > > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > > > reality > > > > > of > > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste > the > > > > > little > > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have > seen > > > so > > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > relgion > > > > > and > > > > > > its > > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) > > > itself, > > > > > I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > > > belief > > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about > rationalization of > > > > > some > > > > > > of > > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or > white > > > in > > > > > it. > > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common > > > person > > > > > like > > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief > system) - > > > who, > > > > > for > > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > very "faith". > > > and > > > > > in > > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. > For > > > > > > Example > > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in > > > India > > > > > has > > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - > where > > > > > people > > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on > > > deaths > > > > > in > > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as > well by > > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion > > > never > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do > cause > > > > > some > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in > India - > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, > > > Budhism, > > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, > its > > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > > > > compliance > > > > > > can > > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans > also do > > > not > > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > > > rituals > > > > > in > > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current > yuga. > > > This > > > > > > often > > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in > most > > > cases > > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and > observe > > > > > > the "short > > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities > are > > > > > > collected, > > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, > people > > > on > > > > > day > > > > > > to > > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > benefits > > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but > somehow "fear" > > > > > created > > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different > belief > > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals > (karmakanda as > > > > > you > > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into > > > grey > > > > > > magic > > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different > background > > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different > tolerances > > > or > > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > > acceptance' > > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would > really be > > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards > (this > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter > of > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > > demonstrable > > > > > and > > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into > more 'accepting' > > > ways > > > > > of > > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the > > > horizon > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals > begin > > > to > > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what > we > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there > are > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self > and > > > > > touch > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they > > > always > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason > and > > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to > > > reason > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious > flavour > > > to > > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more > forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > knowers > > > or > > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not > a > > > > > > question of > > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows > what is > > > > > true > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > Gang" > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct > > > (very > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). > The > > > > > issue > > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its > adherence..which is > > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even > on > > > > > events > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > > > > pursuits? > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in > India as > > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have > > > made a > > > > > > big > > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother > > > about > > > > > the > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know > the > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > temples > > > > > who > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that > it is > > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow > fall > > > on > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan > period, > > > > > nay, > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for > the > > > > > divine > > > > > > idol > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > > > temple > > > > > in > > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during > the > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > > > > strage) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas > during > > > the > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall > keep > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how > others > > > are > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > > explicitly > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given > day; > > > and > > > > > so > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > > > > Eclipses > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > > very "few" > > > > > > people - > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" > methods > > > of > > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in > > > their > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). > Most in > > > > > the > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from > event > > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), > do > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 > hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it > ends > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so > will > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > eclipse > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of > September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR > 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night > on > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of > course no > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all > > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of > their > > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or > food > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch > anything, > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to > sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana > (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue > to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The > exact > > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been > given > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji, Yes, I am learning - though may be sounding bit distracted (!!). If anyone feeling that making JR as market place for religious and jyotish practices is in best interest of the jyotish, then let it be. But will it still serve the jyotish? I wish, "this" forum meets with aspirations of jyotish "students". regards / Prafulla Gang , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the reality that > I want it to be. > > If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who was > distracted! > > This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal experience, > Prafulla! > > RR > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish (?) > > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself lucky > for > > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only for > your > > presence. > > > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to > > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such non > > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its > > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can realize > > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. This > has > > become market place. > > > > regards / Prafulla > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as being > the > > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and > insurmountable, > > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some > ripe, > > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and > succour > > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future > (lifetimes)! > > > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the Deity of > our > > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree we > are > > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious reasons!! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all these > > > plights > > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is > compunding. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > grabbed > > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be > described > > > as > > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > personal > > > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding > and > > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations > are > > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered > any > > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL > people > > > in > > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > > knowledge > > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > > consecration. > > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer > land > > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in > all > > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are > > > gifted > > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to > live > > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > > brahmins > > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people > and > > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by > the > > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism > and > > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that > the > > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > > leningrad > > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches > but > > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > propaganda) > > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > > > some > > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non > brahmins > > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most > civil > > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > > reservation, > > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > > > large > > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > brahmins. > > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, > sometime > > > ago > > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for > brahmins. > > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > headmaster > > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in > US > > > and > > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > engineering > > > or > > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that > 99% > > > of > > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > switched > > > to > > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in > poverty. > > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing > or > > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway > > > station > > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily > wages. > > > this > > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions > which > > > are > > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy > noble > > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called > educated > > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to > > > leave > > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are > non > > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all > human > > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > individuals > > > at > > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is > far > > > from > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant > illiterate > > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in > some > > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > > poojaris > > > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing > and to > > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > > monies. > > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > construction > > > are > > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so > few > > > > > options, > > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > > > reality > > > > > of > > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste > the > > > > > little > > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have > seen > > > so > > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > relgion > > > > > and > > > > > > its > > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) > > > itself, > > > > > I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > > > belief > > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about > rationalization of > > > > > some > > > > > > of > > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or > white > > > in > > > > > it. > > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common > > > person > > > > > like > > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief > system) - > > > who, > > > > > for > > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > very "faith". > > > and > > > > > in > > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. > For > > > > > > Example > > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in > > > India > > > > > has > > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - > where > > > > > people > > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on > > > deaths > > > > > in > > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as > well by > > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion > > > never > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do > cause > > > > > some > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in > India - > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, > > > Budhism, > > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, > its > > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > > > > compliance > > > > > > can > > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans > also do > > > not > > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > > > rituals > > > > > in > > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current > yuga. > > > This > > > > > > often > > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in > most > > > cases > > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and > observe > > > > > > the "short > > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities > are > > > > > > collected, > > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, > people > > > on > > > > > day > > > > > > to > > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > benefits > > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but > somehow "fear" > > > > > created > > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different > belief > > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals > (karmakanda as > > > > > you > > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into > > > grey > > > > > > magic > > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different > background > > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different > tolerances > > > or > > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > > acceptance' > > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would > really be > > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards > (this > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter > of > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > > demonstrable > > > > > and > > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into > more 'accepting' > > > ways > > > > > of > > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the > > > horizon > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals > begin > > > to > > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what > we > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there > are > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self > and > > > > > touch > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they > > > always > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason > and > > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to > > > reason > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious > flavour > > > to > > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more > forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > knowers > > > or > > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not > a > > > > > > question of > > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows > what is > > > > > true > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > Gang" > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct > > > (very > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). > The > > > > > issue > > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its > adherence..which is > > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even > on > > > > > events > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > > > > pursuits? > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in > India as > > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have > > > made a > > > > > > big > > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother > > > about > > > > > the > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know > the > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > temples > > > > > who > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that > it is > > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow > fall > > > on > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan > period, > > > > > nay, > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for > the > > > > > divine > > > > > > idol > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > > > temple > > > > > in > > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during > the > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > > > > strage) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas > during > > > the > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall > keep > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how > others > > > are > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > > explicitly > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given > day; > > > and > > > > > so > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > > > > Eclipses > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > > very "few" > > > > > > people - > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" > methods > > > of > > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in > > > their > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). > Most in > > > > > the > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from > event > > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), > do > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 > hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it > ends > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so > will > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > eclipse > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of > September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR > 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night > on > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of > course no > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all > > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of > their > > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or > food > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch > anything, > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to > sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana > (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue > to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The > exact > > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been > given > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Rishi ji, I know that. and also know that I can not match his experience. But as I stated, it is worth being selfish to find opportunity to learn from him. The best part about him in my understanding - is that, he is not "masked" and does not live on idealism. Tbis is the reason, that I am fond of his writings and thoughts. regards / Prafulla , "rishi_2000in" <rishi_2000in wrote: > > Prafullaji, > That is the 'spin and the span' of Ranjanji's Jyotisha writings, one > has to be on toes always! > rishi > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the reality > that > > I want it to be. > > > > If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who was > > distracted! > > > > This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal > experience, > > Prafulla! > > > > RR > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish > (?) > > > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself > lucky > > for > > > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only > for > > your > > > presence. > > > > > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to > > > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such non > > > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its > > > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can > realize > > > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. > This > > has > > > become market place. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as > being > > the > > > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and > > insurmountable, > > > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some > > ripe, > > > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and > > succour > > > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future > > (lifetimes)! > > > > > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the Deity > of > > our > > > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree > we > > are > > > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious reasons!! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all > these > > > > plights > > > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is > > compunding. > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > > grabbed > > > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be > > described > > > > as > > > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > > personal > > > > > > views as they observe in their experience and > understanding > > and > > > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such > observations > > are > > > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or > offered > > any > > > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL > > people > > > > in > > > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > > > knowledge > > > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of > the > > > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > > > consecration. > > > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to > offer > > land > > > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. > in > > all > > > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they > are > > > > gifted > > > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used > to > > live > > > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > > > brahmins > > > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people > > and > > > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by > > the > > > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like > teaching. > > > > > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of > communism > > and > > > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter > that > > the > > > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > > > leningrad > > > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to > churches > > but > > > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > > propaganda) > > > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris > as > > > > some > > > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non > > brahmins > > > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. > most > > civil > > > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > > > reservation, > > > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. > still a > > > > large > > > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > > brahmins. > > > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, > > sometime > > > > ago > > > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for > > brahmins. > > > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > > headmaster > > > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute > in > > US > > > > and > > > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > > engineering > > > > or > > > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say > that > > 99% > > > > of > > > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > > switched > > > > to > > > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in > > poverty. > > > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins > standing > > or > > > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the > railway > > > > station > > > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily > > wages. > > > > this > > > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions > > which > > > > are > > > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old > holy > > noble > > > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called > > educated > > > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself > to > > > > leave > > > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering > people > > > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers > are > > non > > > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all > > human > > > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > > individuals > > > > at > > > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is > > far > > > > from > > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant > > illiterate > > > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in > > some > > > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > > > poojaris > > > > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing > > and to > > > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > > > monies. > > > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > > construction > > > > are > > > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so > > few > > > > > > options, > > > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > > > > reality > > > > > > of > > > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and > waste > > the > > > > > > little > > > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we > have > > seen > > > > so > > > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > > relgion > > > > > > and > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief > systems) > > > > itself, > > > > > > I > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for > each > > > > belief > > > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about > > rationalization of > > > > > > some > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or > > white > > > > in > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for > common > > > > person > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief > > system) - > > > > who, > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > > very "faith". > > > > and > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of > masses. > > For > > > > > > > Example > > > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) > in > > > > India > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - > > where > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including > on > > > > deaths > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as > > well by > > > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. > Religion > > > > never > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners > do > > cause > > > > > > some > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in > > India - > > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like > Jainism, > > > > Budhism, > > > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not > corrupted, > > its > > > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, > its > > > > > > compliance > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans > > also do > > > > not > > > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand > the > > > > rituals > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current > > yuga. > > > > This > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in > > most > > > > cases > > > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and > > observe > > > > > > > the "short > > > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. > Charities > > are > > > > > > > collected, > > > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, > > people > > > > on > > > > > > day > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > > benefits > > > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but > > somehow "fear" > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for > exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > pages" > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different > > belief > > > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals > > (karmakanda as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend > into > > > > grey > > > > > > > magic > > > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different > > background > > > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different > > tolerances > > > > or > > > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > > > acceptance' > > > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would > > really be > > > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards > > (this > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or > perimeter > > of > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > > > demonstrable > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into > > more 'accepting' > > > > ways > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and > the > > > > horizon > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals > > begin > > > > to > > > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in > what > > we > > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though > there > > are > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of > self > > and > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but > they > > > > always > > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where > reason > > and > > > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and > logical > > > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like > to > > > > reason > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious > > flavour > > > > to > > > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more > > forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > > knowers > > > > or > > > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is > not > > a > > > > > > > question of > > > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows > > what is > > > > > > true > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that > purely > > > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between > correct > > > > (very > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large > population). > > The > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its > > adherence..which is > > > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans > (even > > on > > > > > > events > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" > of > > > > > > pursuits? > > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in > > India as > > > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) > have > > > > made a > > > > > > > big > > > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not > bother > > > > about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I > know > > the > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > > temples > > > > > > who > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period > that > > it is > > > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow > > fall > > > > on > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan > > period, > > > > > > nay, > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella > for > > the > > > > > > divine > > > > > > > idol > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, > kalahasti > > > > temple > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open > during > > the > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT > (somewhat > > > > > > strage) > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas > > during > > > > the > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we > shall > > keep > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how > > others > > > > are > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any > given > > day; > > > > and > > > > > > so > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities > on > > > > > > Eclipses > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > > > very "few" > > > > > > > people - > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" > > methods > > > > of > > > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time > in > > > > their > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). > > Most in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from > > event > > > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday > morning), > > do > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night > ends > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 > > hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it > > ends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so > > will > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > > eclipse > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of > > September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS > FOR > > 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same > night > > on > > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of > > course no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised > all > > > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by > me) > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of > > their > > > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water > or > > food > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch > > anything, > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to > > sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), > near > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, > in > > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and > gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana > > (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would > accrue > > to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The > > exact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been > > given > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE > ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Prafulla, 'Aspiring' Jyotishis (students) are not fragile souls that must be protected or molly-coddled (sp?) but gritty worldly beings just like the rest of us that have been put through fire one way or another through REAL 24/7 life! Don't worry about them, or Jyotish! It has suffered enough for too long, and shall no more -- my heart feels! What do other JYOTISHIS feel? RR , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > Yes, I am learning - though may be sounding bit distracted (!!). > > If anyone feeling that making JR as market place for religious and > jyotish practices is in best interest of the jyotish, then let it be. > But will it still serve the jyotish? > > I wish, "this" forum meets with aspirations of jyotish "students". > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the reality that > > I want it to be. > > > > If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who was > > distracted! > > > > This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal experience, > > Prafulla! > > > > RR > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish (?) > > > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself lucky > > for > > > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only for > > your > > > presence. > > > > > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to > > > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such non > > > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its > > > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can realize > > > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. This > > has > > > become market place. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as being > > the > > > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and > > insurmountable, > > > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some > > ripe, > > > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and > > succour > > > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future > > (lifetimes)! > > > > > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the Deity of > > our > > > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree we > > are > > > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious reasons!! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all these > > > > plights > > > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is > > compunding. > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > > grabbed > > > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be > > described > > > > as > > > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > > personal > > > > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding > > and > > > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations > > are > > > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered > > any > > > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL > > people > > > > in > > > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > > > knowledge > > > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > > > consecration. > > > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer > > land > > > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in > > all > > > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are > > > > gifted > > > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to > > live > > > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > > > brahmins > > > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people > > and > > > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by > > the > > > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism > > and > > > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that > > the > > > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > > > leningrad > > > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches > > but > > > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > > propaganda) > > > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > > > > some > > > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non > > brahmins > > > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most > > civil > > > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > > > reservation, > > > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > > > > large > > > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > > brahmins. > > > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, > > sometime > > > > ago > > > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for > > brahmins. > > > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > > headmaster > > > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in > > US > > > > and > > > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > > engineering > > > > or > > > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that > > 99% > > > > of > > > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > > switched > > > > to > > > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in > > poverty. > > > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing > > or > > > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway > > > > station > > > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily > > wages. > > > > this > > > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions > > which > > > > are > > > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy > > noble > > > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called > > educated > > > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to > > > > leave > > > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are > > non > > > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all > > human > > > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > > individuals > > > > at > > > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is > > far > > > > from > > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant > > illiterate > > > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in > > some > > > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > > > poojaris > > > > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing > > and to > > > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > > > monies. > > > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > > construction > > > > are > > > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so > > few > > > > > > options, > > > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > > > > reality > > > > > > of > > > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste > > the > > > > > > little > > > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have > > seen > > > > so > > > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > > relgion > > > > > > and > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) > > > > itself, > > > > > > I > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > > > > belief > > > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about > > rationalization of > > > > > > some > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or > > white > > > > in > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common > > > > person > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief > > system) - > > > > who, > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > > very "faith". > > > > and > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. > > For > > > > > > > Example > > > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in > > > > India > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - > > where > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on > > > > deaths > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as > > well by > > > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion > > > > never > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do > > cause > > > > > > some > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in > > India - > > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, > > > > Budhism, > > > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, > > its > > > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > > > > > compliance > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans > > also do > > > > not > > > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > > > > rituals > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current > > yuga. > > > > This > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in > > most > > > > cases > > > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and > > observe > > > > > > > the "short > > > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities > > are > > > > > > > collected, > > > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, > > people > > > > on > > > > > > day > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > > benefits > > > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but > > somehow "fear" > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different > > belief > > > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals > > (karmakanda as > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into > > > > grey > > > > > > > magic > > > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different > > background > > > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different > > tolerances > > > > or > > > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > > > acceptance' > > > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would > > really be > > > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards > > (this > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter > > of > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > > > demonstrable > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into > > more 'accepting' > > > > ways > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the > > > > horizon > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals > > begin > > > > to > > > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what > > we > > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there > > are > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self > > and > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they > > > > always > > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason > > and > > > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to > > > > reason > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious > > flavour > > > > to > > > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more > > forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > > knowers > > > > or > > > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not > > a > > > > > > > question of > > > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows > > what is > > > > > > true > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely > > > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct > > > > (very > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). > > The > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its > > adherence..which is > > > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even > > on > > > > > > events > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > > > > > pursuits? > > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in > > India as > > > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have > > > > made a > > > > > > > big > > > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother > > > > about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know > > the > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > > temples > > > > > > who > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that > > it is > > > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow > > fall > > > > on > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan > > period, > > > > > > nay, > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for > > the > > > > > > divine > > > > > > > idol > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > > > > temple > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during > > the > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > > > > > strage) > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas > > during > > > > the > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall > > keep > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how > > others > > > > are > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given > > day; > > > > and > > > > > > so > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > > > > > Eclipses > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > > > very "few" > > > > > > > people - > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" > > methods > > > > of > > > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in > > > > their > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). > > Most in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from > > event > > > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), > > do > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 > > hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it > > ends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so > > will > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > > eclipse > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of > > September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR > > 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night > > on > > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of > > course no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all > > > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of > > their > > > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or > > food > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch > > anything, > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to > > sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in > > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana > > (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue > > to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The > > exact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been > > given > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji, I wonder, how can someone disagree with you? Jyotish aspirants are not fragile, others may be !! Atleast jyotish aspirants do not need any protection from anyone. That is why, perhaps jyotish aspirants (including me) are discussing this subject fearlessly. regards / Prafulla Gang , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Prafulla, > > 'Aspiring' Jyotishis (students) are not fragile souls that must be > protected or molly-coddled (sp?) but gritty worldly beings just like > the rest of us that have been put through fire one way or another > through REAL 24/7 life! > > Don't worry about them, or Jyotish! It has suffered enough for too > long, and shall no more -- my heart feels! > > What do other JYOTISHIS feel? > > RR > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > Yes, I am learning - though may be sounding bit distracted (!!). > > > > If anyone feeling that making JR as market place for religious and > > jyotish practices is in best interest of the jyotish, then let it > be. > > But will it still serve the jyotish? > > > > I wish, "this" forum meets with aspirations of jyotish "students". > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the reality > that > > > I want it to be. > > > > > > If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who was > > > distracted! > > > > > > This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal > experience, > > > Prafulla! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish > (?) > > > > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself > lucky > > > for > > > > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only > for > > > your > > > > presence. > > > > > > > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to > > > > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such > non > > > > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its > > > > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can > realize > > > > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. > This > > > has > > > > become market place. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as > being > > > the > > > > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and > > > insurmountable, > > > > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some > > > ripe, > > > > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and > > > succour > > > > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future > > > (lifetimes)! > > > > > > > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the > Deity of > > > our > > > > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree > we > > > are > > > > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious > reasons!! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all > these > > > > > plights > > > > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is > > > compunding. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > > > grabbed > > > > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be > > > described > > > > > as > > > > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > > > personal > > > > > > > views as they observe in their experience and > understanding > > > and > > > > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such > observations > > > are > > > > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or > offered > > > any > > > > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL > > > people > > > > > in > > > > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of > the > > > > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > > > > consecration. > > > > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to > offer > > > land > > > > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. > in > > > all > > > > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they > are > > > > > gifted > > > > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used > to > > > live > > > > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > > > > brahmins > > > > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL > people > > > and > > > > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam > by > > > the > > > > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like > teaching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of > communism > > > and > > > > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter > that > > > the > > > > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > > > > leningrad > > > > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to > churches > > > but > > > > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > > > propaganda) > > > > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of > poojaris as > > > > > some > > > > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non > > > brahmins > > > > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. > most > > > civil > > > > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > > > > reservation, > > > > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. > still a > > > > > large > > > > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > > > brahmins. > > > > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, > > > sometime > > > > > ago > > > > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for > > > brahmins. > > > > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > > > headmaster > > > > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most > repute in > > > US > > > > > and > > > > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > > > engineering > > > > > or > > > > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say > that > > > 99% > > > > > of > > > > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > > > switched > > > > > to > > > > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in > > > poverty. > > > > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins > standing > > > or > > > > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the > railway > > > > > station > > > > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily > > > wages. > > > > > this > > > > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions > > > which > > > > > are > > > > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old > holy > > > noble > > > > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called > > > educated > > > > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself > to > > > > > leave > > > > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering > people > > > > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers > are > > > non > > > > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all > > > human > > > > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > > > individuals > > > > > at > > > > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all > is > > > far > > > > > from > > > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant > > > illiterate > > > > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. > in > > > some > > > > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > > > > poojaris > > > > > > > in the same temples which were built only for > landgrabbing > > > and to > > > > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > > > > monies. > > > > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > > > construction > > > > > are > > > > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, > so > > > few > > > > > > > options, > > > > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living > the > > > > > reality > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and > waste > > > the > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we > have > > > seen > > > > > so > > > > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > Gang" > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > > > relgion > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief > systems) > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for > each > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about > > > rationalization of > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black > or > > > white > > > > > in > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for > common > > > > > person > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief > > > system) - > > > > > who, > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > > > very "faith". > > > > > and > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of > masses. > > > For > > > > > > > > Example > > > > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows > etc) in > > > > > India > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - > > > where > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs > (including on > > > > > deaths > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation > as > > > well by > > > > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. > Religion > > > > > never > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners > do > > > cause > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in > > > India - > > > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like > Jainism, > > > > > Budhism, > > > > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not > corrupted, > > > its > > > > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, > its > > > > > > > compliance > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans > > > also do > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand > the > > > > > rituals > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current > > > yuga. > > > > > This > > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in > > > most > > > > > cases > > > > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and > > > observe > > > > > > > > the "short > > > > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. > Charities > > > are > > > > > > > > collected, > > > > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, > > > people > > > > > on > > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > > > benefits > > > > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but > > > somehow "fear" > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for > exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > pages" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between > different > > > belief > > > > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals > > > (karmakanda as > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend > into > > > > > grey > > > > > > > > magic > > > > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different > > > background > > > > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different > > > tolerances > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > > > > acceptance' > > > > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would > > > really be > > > > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's > standards > > > (this > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > > > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or > perimeter > > > of > > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > > > > demonstrable > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into > > > more 'accepting' > > > > > ways > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and > the > > > > > horizon > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals > > > begin > > > > > to > > > > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in > what > > > we > > > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though > there > > > are > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of > self > > > and > > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but > they > > > > > always > > > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where > reason > > > and > > > > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and > logical > > > > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who > like to > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious > > > flavour > > > > > to > > > > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more > > > forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > > > knowers > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is > not > > > a > > > > > > > > question of > > > > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows > > > what is > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that > purely > > > > > based > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > > > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between > correct > > > > > (very > > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large > population). > > > The > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its > > > adherence..which is > > > > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans > (even > > > on > > > > > > > events > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question > on "purity" of > > > > > > > pursuits? > > > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in > > > India as > > > > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) > have > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > big > > > > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not > bother > > > > > about > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I > know > > > the > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > > > temples > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period > that > > > it is > > > > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan > shadow > > > fall > > > > > on > > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan > > > period, > > > > > > > nay, > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella > for > > > the > > > > > > > divine > > > > > > > > idol > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, > kalahasti > > > > > temple > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open > during > > > the > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT > (somewhat > > > > > > > strage) > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas > > > during > > > > > the > > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we > shall > > > keep > > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how > > > others > > > > > are > > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any > given > > > day; > > > > > and > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities > on > > > > > > > Eclipses > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > > > > very "few" > > > > > > > > people - > > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" > > > methods > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their > time in > > > > > their > > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). > > > Most in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from > > > event > > > > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > > > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > angel > > > > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday > morning), > > > do > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night > ends > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only > 1 > > > hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since > it > > > ends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, > so > > > will > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > > > eclipse > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of > > > September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS > FOR > > > 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday > September > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same > night > > > on > > > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of > > > course no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised > all > > > > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by > me) > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of > > > their > > > > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water > or > > > food > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch > > > anything, > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to > > > sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), > near > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, > in > > > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and > gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana > > > (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would > accrue > > > to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The > > > exact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has > been > > > given > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now > cannot > > > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take > advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE > ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > > > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 OOps..I just disagreed! , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > I wonder, how can someone disagree with you? > > Jyotish aspirants are not fragile, others may be !! Atleast jyotish > aspirants do not need any protection from anyone. > > That is why, perhaps jyotish aspirants (including me) are discussing > this subject fearlessly. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > 'Aspiring' Jyotishis (students) are not fragile souls that must be > > protected or molly-coddled (sp?) but gritty worldly beings just like > > the rest of us that have been put through fire one way or another > > through REAL 24/7 life! > > > > Don't worry about them, or Jyotish! It has suffered enough for too > > long, and shall no more -- my heart feels! > > > > What do other JYOTISHIS feel? > > > > RR > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > Yes, I am learning - though may be sounding bit distracted (!!). > > > > > > If anyone feeling that making JR as market place for religious and > > > jyotish practices is in best interest of the jyotish, then let it > > be. > > > But will it still serve the jyotish? > > > > > > I wish, "this" forum meets with aspirations of jyotish "students". > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the reality > > that > > > > I want it to be. > > > > > > > > If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who was > > > > distracted! > > > > > > > > This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal > > experience, > > > > Prafulla! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being selfish > > (?) > > > > > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel myself > > lucky > > > > for > > > > > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, only > > for > > > > your > > > > > presence. > > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the forum to > > > > > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to such > > non > > > > > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is fading its > > > > > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can > > realize > > > > > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this forum. > > This > > > > has > > > > > become market place. > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma as > > being > > > > the > > > > > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and > > > > insurmountable, > > > > > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! Some > > > > ripe, > > > > > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate pleasure and > > > > succour > > > > > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future > > > > (lifetimes)! > > > > > > > > > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the > > Deity of > > > > our > > > > > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango tree > > we > > > > are > > > > > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious > > reasons!! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps all > > these > > > > > > plights > > > > > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is > > > > compunding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > > > > grabbed > > > > > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be > > > > described > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > > > > personal > > > > > > > > views as they observe in their experience and > > understanding > > > > and > > > > > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such > > observations > > > > are > > > > > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or > > offered > > > > any > > > > > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL > > > > people > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of > > the > > > > > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > > > > > consecration. > > > > > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to > > offer > > > > land > > > > > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. > > in > > > > all > > > > > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they > > are > > > > > > gifted > > > > > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used > > to > > > > live > > > > > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > > > > > brahmins > > > > > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL > > people > > > > and > > > > > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam > > by > > > > the > > > > > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like > > teaching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of > > communism > > > > and > > > > > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter > > that > > > > the > > > > > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > > > > > leningrad > > > > > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to > > churches > > > > but > > > > > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > > > > propaganda) > > > > > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of > > poojaris as > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non > > > > brahmins > > > > > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. > > most > > > > civil > > > > > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > > > > > reservation, > > > > > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. > > still a > > > > > > large > > > > > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > > > > brahmins. > > > > > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, > > > > sometime > > > > > > ago > > > > > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for > > > > brahmins. > > > > > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > > > > headmaster > > > > > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most > > repute in > > > > US > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > > > > engineering > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say > > that > > > > 99% > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > > > > switched > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in > > > > poverty. > > > > > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins > > standing > > > > or > > > > > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the > > railway > > > > > > station > > > > > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily > > > > wages. > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions > > > > which > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old > > holy > > > > noble > > > > > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called > > > > educated > > > > > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself > > to > > > > > > leave > > > > > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering > > people > > > > > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers > > are > > > > non > > > > > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all > > > > human > > > > > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > > > > individuals > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all > > is > > > > far > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant > > > > illiterate > > > > > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. > > in > > > > some > > > > > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > > > > > poojaris > > > > > > > > in the same temples which were built only for > > landgrabbing > > > > and to > > > > > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > > > > > monies. > > > > > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > > > > construction > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, > > so > > > > few > > > > > > > > options, > > > > > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living > > the > > > > > > reality > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and > > waste > > > > the > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we > > have > > > > seen > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > > > > relgion > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief > > systems) > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for > > each > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about > > > > rationalization of > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black > > or > > > > white > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for > > common > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief > > > > system) - > > > > > > who, > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > > > > very "faith". > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of > > masses. > > > > For > > > > > > > > > Example > > > > > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows > > etc) in > > > > > > India > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - > > > > where > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs > > (including on > > > > > > deaths > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation > > as > > > > well by > > > > > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. > > Religion > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners > > do > > > > cause > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in > > > > India - > > > > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like > > Jainism, > > > > > > Budhism, > > > > > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not > > corrupted, > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, > > its > > > > > > > > compliance > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans > > > > also do > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand > > the > > > > > > rituals > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current > > > > yuga. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in > > > > most > > > > > > cases > > > > > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and > > > > observe > > > > > > > > > the "short > > > > > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. > > Charities > > > > are > > > > > > > > > collected, > > > > > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, > > > > people > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > > > > benefits > > > > > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but > > > > somehow "fear" > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for > > exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > > pages" > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between > > different > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals > > > > (karmakanda as > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend > > into > > > > > > grey > > > > > > > > > magic > > > > > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different > > > > background > > > > > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different > > > > tolerances > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > > > > > acceptance' > > > > > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would > > > > really be > > > > > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's > > standards > > > > (this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > > > > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or > > perimeter > > > > of > > > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > > > > > demonstrable > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into > > > > more 'accepting' > > > > > > ways > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and > > the > > > > > > horizon > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals > > > > begin > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in > > what > > > > we > > > > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though > > there > > > > are > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of > > self > > > > and > > > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but > > they > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where > > reason > > > > and > > > > > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and > > logical > > > > > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who > > like to > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious > > > > flavour > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more > > > > forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > > > > knowers > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is > > not > > > > a > > > > > > > > > question of > > > > > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows > > > > what is > > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that > > purely > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > > > > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between > > correct > > > > > > (very > > > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large > > population). > > > > The > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its > > > > adherence..which is > > > > > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans > > (even > > > > on > > > > > > > > events > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question > > on "purity" of > > > > > > > > pursuits? > > > > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in > > > > India as > > > > > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) > > have > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > > big > > > > > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not > > bother > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I > > know > > > > the > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > > > > temples > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period > > that > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan > > shadow > > > > fall > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan > > > > period, > > > > > > > > nay, > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella > > for > > > > the > > > > > > > > divine > > > > > > > > > idol > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, > > kalahasti > > > > > > temple > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open > > during > > > > the > > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT > > (somewhat > > > > > > > > strage) > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas > > > > during > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we > > shall > > > > keep > > > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how > > > > others > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any > > given > > > > day; > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities > > on > > > > > > > > Eclipses > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > > > > > very "few" > > > > > > > > > people - > > > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" > > > > methods > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their > > time in > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). > > > > Most in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from > > > > event > > > > > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > > > > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > angel > > > > > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday > > morning), > > > > do > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night > > ends > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only > > 1 > > > > hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since > > it > > > > ends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, > > so > > > > will > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > > > > eclipse > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of > > > > September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS > > FOR > > > > 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday > > September > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same > > night > > > > on > > > > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of > > > > course no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised > > all > > > > > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by > > me) > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of > > > > their > > > > > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water > > or > > > > food > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch > > > > anything, > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to > > > > sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), > > near > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, > > in > > > > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and > > gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana > > > > (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would > > accrue > > > > to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The > > > > exact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has > > been > > > > given > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now > > cannot > > > > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take > > advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE > > ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > > > > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Ha Ha.. your disagreement note and Ranjan ji's observations do not differ (and truth also). regards / Prafulla , "rishi_2000in" <rishi_2000in wrote: > > OOps..I just disagreed! > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > I wonder, how can someone disagree with you? > > > > Jyotish aspirants are not fragile, others may be !! Atleast jyotish > > aspirants do not need any protection from anyone. > > > > That is why, perhaps jyotish aspirants (including me) are > discussing > > this subject fearlessly. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > 'Aspiring' Jyotishis (students) are not fragile souls that must > be > > > protected or molly-coddled (sp?) but gritty worldly beings just > like > > > the rest of us that have been put through fire one way or > another > > > through REAL 24/7 life! > > > > > > Don't worry about them, or Jyotish! It has suffered enough for > too > > > long, and shall no more -- my heart feels! > > > > > > What do other JYOTISHIS feel? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > Yes, I am learning - though may be sounding bit distracted > (!!). > > > > > > > > If anyone feeling that making JR as market place for religious > and > > > > jyotish practices is in best interest of the jyotish, then let > it > > > be. > > > > But will it still serve the jyotish? > > > > > > > > I wish, "this" forum meets with aspirations of > jyotish "students". > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You are very kind, but for me *this* has always been the > reality > > > that > > > > > I want it to be. > > > > > > > > > > If it has not served **my** dreams, maybe I was the one who > was > > > > > distracted! > > > > > > > > > > This may not necessarily be your yard-stick or personal > > > experience, > > > > > Prafulla! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Honest confession - Sometimes, I feel it is worth being > selfish > > > (?) > > > > > > and learn the useful & rare lessons from you. I feel > myself > > > lucky > > > > > for > > > > > > your presence here and in fact, I Joined / resumed this, > only > > > for > > > > > your > > > > > > presence. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely right..It is jyotish forum, not the > forum to > > > > > > discuss religious practices. I just happen to respond to > such > > > non > > > > > > jyotish threads. Unfortunately, this jyotish forum is > fading its > > > > > > charm, for variety of practices. I wish, forum members can > > > realize > > > > > > this that there are hardly jyotish discussions on this > forum. > > > This > > > > > has > > > > > > become market place. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We grew up to come to jyotish to learn not about karma > as > > > being > > > > > the > > > > > > > tree that is way bigger than us, at this time, and > > > > > insurmountable, > > > > > > > but to also see the mangoes that the tree is laden with! > Some > > > > > ripe, > > > > > > > others not! The ripe ones we juice for immediate > pleasure and > > > > > succour > > > > > > > and the unripe ones we pickle with patience for future > > > > > (lifetimes)! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And all this time we humans simply bow gratefully to the > > > Deity of > > > > > our > > > > > > > choice, in this lifetime -- thankful that it is a mango > tree > > > we > > > > > are > > > > > > > up against and not an oak tree or cactus, for obvious > > > reasons!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing jyotish a bit, I can only add that - perhaps > all > > > these > > > > > > > plights > > > > > > > > are karmic in nature!! Isn't it ? Unfortunately, it is > > > > > compunding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins > have > > > > > grabbed > > > > > > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best > be > > > > > described > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth > their > > > > > personal > > > > > > > > > views as they observe in their experience and > > > understanding > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such > > > observations > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or > > > offered > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams > for ALL > > > > > people > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart > holy > > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the > holiness of > > > the > > > > > > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > > > > > > consecration. > > > > > > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used > to > > > offer > > > > > land > > > > > > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a > cow. > > > in > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, > they > > > are > > > > > > > gifted > > > > > > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins > used > > > to > > > > > live > > > > > > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. > these > > > > > > > brahmins > > > > > > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL > > > people > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to > islam > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like > > > teaching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of > > > communism > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different > matter > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > best communist country russia is now full of > churches and > > > > > > > leningrad > > > > > > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to > > > churches > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti > religious > > > > > propaganda) > > > > > > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of > > > poojaris as > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste > non > > > > > brahmins > > > > > > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy > jobs. > > > most > > > > > civil > > > > > > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due > to > > > > > > > reservation, > > > > > > > > > around 90% of government employees are non > brahmins. > > > still a > > > > > > > large > > > > > > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of > these > > > > > brahmins. > > > > > > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in > minority, > > > > > sometime > > > > > > > ago > > > > > > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation > for > > > > > brahmins. > > > > > > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom > fighters, > > > > > headmaster > > > > > > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most > > > repute in > > > > > US > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in > IT, > > > > > engineering > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i > say > > > that > > > > > 99% > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have > not > > > > > switched > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing > in > > > > > poverty. > > > > > > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins > > > standing > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the > > > railway > > > > > > > station > > > > > > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their > daily > > > > > wages. > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the > professions > > > > > which > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century > old > > > holy > > > > > noble > > > > > > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so > called > > > > > educated > > > > > > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for > myself > > > to > > > > > > > leave > > > > > > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the > suffering > > > people > > > > > > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my > customers > > > are > > > > > non > > > > > > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i > treat all > > > > > human > > > > > > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to > few > > > > > individuals > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited > all > > > is > > > > > far > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant > > > > > illiterate > > > > > > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the > customers. > > > in > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears > are now > > > > > > > poojaris > > > > > > > > > in the same temples which were built only for > > > landgrabbing > > > > > and to > > > > > > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for > huge > > > > > > > monies. > > > > > > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > > > > > construction > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > pages" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few > abilities, > > > so > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > options, > > > > > > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of > living > > > the > > > > > > > reality > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality > and > > > waste > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what > we > > > have > > > > > seen > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction > (between > > > > > relgion > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief > > > systems) > > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" > for > > > each > > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about > > > > > rationalization of > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be > black > > > or > > > > > white > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization > (for > > > common > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each > belief > > > > > system) - > > > > > > > who, > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > > > > > very "faith". > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life > of > > > masses. > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > Example > > > > > > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins > (cows > > > etc) in > > > > > > > India > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural > India - > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs > > > (including on > > > > > > > deaths > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive > exploitation > > > as > > > > > well by > > > > > > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. > > > Religion > > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > > > becomes > > > > > > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its > practioners > > > do > > > > > cause > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not > surfaced in > > > > > India - > > > > > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like > > > Jainism, > > > > > > > Budhism, > > > > > > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not > > > corrupted, > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is > exploited, > > > its > > > > > > > > > compliance > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality > brahmans > > > > > also do > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can > understand > > > the > > > > > > > rituals > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in > current > > > > > yuga. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the > rituals, in > > > > > most > > > > > > > cases > > > > > > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, > and > > > > > observe > > > > > > > > > > the "short > > > > > > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. > > > Charities > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > collected, > > > > > > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge > lands, > > > > > people > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for > the > > > > > benefits > > > > > > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but > > > > > somehow "fear" > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for > > > exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal > > > pages" > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between > > > different > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals > > > > > (karmakanda as > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further > extend > > > into > > > > > > > grey > > > > > > > > > > magic > > > > > > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different > > > > > background > > > > > > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different > > > > > tolerances > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree > of > > > > > > > acceptance' > > > > > > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one > would > > > > > really be > > > > > > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's > > > standards > > > > > (this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > > > > > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or > > > perimeter > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more > readily > > > > > > > demonstrable > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into > > > > > more 'accepting' > > > > > > > ways > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow > and > > > the > > > > > > > horizon > > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, > individuals > > > > > begin > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core > beliefs in > > > what > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal > though > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > enough > > > > > > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of > groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our > sense of > > > self > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > touch > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, > but > > > they > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where > > > reason > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and > > > logical > > > > > > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those > who > > > like to > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a > mystical/mysterious > > > > > flavour > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more > > > > > forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not > necessarily > > > > > knowers > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and > it is > > > not > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > question of > > > > > > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps > knows > > > > > what is > > > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say > that > > > purely > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > > > > > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line > between > > > correct > > > > > > > (very > > > > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large > > > population). > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its > > > > > adherence..which is > > > > > > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" > bhramans > > > (even > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > events > > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question > > > on "purity" of > > > > > > > > > pursuits? > > > > > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different > cities in > > > > > India as > > > > > > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their > whole > > > > > > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers > (???) > > > have > > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > > > big > > > > > > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall > not > > > bother > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), > that I > > > know > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or > some > > > > > temples > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy > period > > > that > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan > > > shadow > > > > > fall > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the > grahan > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > nay, > > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an > umbrella > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > divine > > > > > > > > > > idol > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, > > > kalahasti > > > > > > > temple > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only > open > > > during > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT > > > (somewhat > > > > > > > > > strage) > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special > poojas > > > > > during > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, > we > > > shall > > > > > keep > > > > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about > how > > > > > others > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > > > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they > will > > > > > > > explicitly > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done > any > > > given > > > > > day; > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / > charities > > > on > > > > > > > > > Eclipses > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there > are > > > > > > > very "few" > > > > > > > > > > people - > > > > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct > and "puristic" > > > > > methods > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of > their > > > time in > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own > karma"). > > > > > Most in > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") > from > > > > > event > > > > > > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of > these > > > > > > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > angel > > > > > > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item > for daan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday > > > morning), > > > > > do > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same > night > > > ends > > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be > only > > > 1 > > > > > hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date > since > > > it > > > > > ends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date > starts, > > > so > > > > > will > > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the > lunar > > > > > eclipse > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of > > > > > September 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN > EPHEMERIS > > > FOR > > > > > 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday > > > September > > > > > 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at > same > > > night > > > > > on > > > > > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, > of > > > > > course no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has > advised > > > all > > > > > > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added > by > > > me) > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking > name of > > > > > their > > > > > > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take > water > > > or > > > > > food > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not > touch > > > > > anything, > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course > go to > > > > > sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean > (Sea), > > > near > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in > temple, > > > in > > > > > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated > and > > > gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana > > > > > (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally > would > > > accrue > > > > > to a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other > places.The > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also > has > > > been > > > > > given > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now > > > cannot > > > > > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take > > > advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF > THE > > > ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF > ABSOLUTE > > > > > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Pandit Arjun ji, Little off the thread (as this thread was message from Ranjan ji to me). It may look like my observation, but any history student (or history of various religions / sects like - Sikhism, Jainism, Budhism, Arya Samaj etc) can vouch for the exploitation of society at large by Karamkandi Brahmans. Unfortunately, some of these practioners (I repeat - not the religion, rituals) have exploited society. If one can go to any rural area, and can see, how these ritualistic demands from ""godly" people, have ruined families. What I stated is history. and just like such religious preachings need another dedicated forum, the history narration too deserve some corner there. But certainly not the jyotish forum!! regards / Prafulla Gang , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear prafullaji > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described as > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > aberrations seen in isolation. > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people in > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy knowledge > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of consecration. > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are gifted > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these brahmins > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > best communist country russia is now full of churches and leningrad > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as some > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to reservation, > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a large > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime ago > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US and > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering or > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% of > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched to > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway station > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. this > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which are > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to leave > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > beings equally as god. > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals at > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far from > truth. > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now poojaris > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge monies. > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction are > done by non-brahmins. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Personally ...? > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > options, > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality > of > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > little > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so > far? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > and > > its > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, > I > > was > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > some > > of > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in > it. > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person > like > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, > for > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and > in > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > Example > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India > has > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > people > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths > in > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > > becomes > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > some > > of > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > perhaps, > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > compliance > > can > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals > in > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > > often > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > the "short > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > collected, > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on > day > > to > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > of "few" > > > and so on. > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > created > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > systems, > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > you > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > > magic > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > (religious, > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is > a > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > belief > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable > and > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways > of > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > > would > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > > fight, > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > consider > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > enough > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > touch > > and > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always > do. > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > beliefs > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > considerations > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > > things > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > > appeal > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > question of > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > true > > and > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based > on > > my > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > > small > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > issue > > is - > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > events > > like > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > pursuits? > > Even > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > time "business". > > > > Almost > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a > > big > > > > mess > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about > the > > wrong > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > correct > > > > Ones > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > who > > are > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > believed > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > > them. > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > nay, > > an > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > divine > > idol > > > > to > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple > in > > > > andhra > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > grahan > > > > time > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > strage) > > and > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > > grahan > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > doing > > > > what > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > > tell > > > > you > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and > so > > is > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > Eclipses > > has > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > > people - > > > > who > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > > performing > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their > own > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > the > > lot > > > > are > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > driven > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > <angelgoel@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Arjun Ji, Which Brahmins are you talking about ,the one who are brahmins by birth or the one who are brahmins by karm, WHO IS A REAL BRAHMIN PLS ENLIGHTEN US . with Rgds kumar - In , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear prafullaji > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described as > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > aberrations seen in isolation. > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people in > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy knowledge > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of consecration. > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are gifted > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these brahmins > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > best communist country russia is now full of churches and leningrad > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as some > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to reservation, > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a large > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime ago > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US and > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering or > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% of > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched to > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway station > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. this > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which are > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to leave > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > beings equally as god. > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals at > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far from > truth. > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now poojaris > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge monies. > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction are > done by non-brahmins. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Personally ...? > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > options, > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality > of > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > little > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so > far? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > and > > its > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, > I > > was > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > some > > of > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in > it. > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person > like > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, > for > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and > in > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > Example > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India > has > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > people > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths > in > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > > becomes > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > some > > of > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > perhaps, > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > compliance > > can > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals > in > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > > often > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > the "short > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > collected, > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on > day > > to > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > of "few" > > > and so on. > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > created > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > systems, > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > you > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > > magic > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > (religious, > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is > a > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > belief > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable > and > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways > of > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > > would > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > > fight, > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > consider > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > enough > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > touch > > and > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always > do. > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > beliefs > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > considerations > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > > things > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > > appeal > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > question of > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > true > > and > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based > on > > my > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > > small > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > issue > > is - > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > events > > like > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > pursuits? > > Even > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > time "business". > > > > Almost > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a > > big > > > > mess > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about > the > > wrong > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > correct > > > > Ones > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > who > > are > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > believed > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > > them. > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > nay, > > an > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > divine > > idol > > > > to > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple > in > > > > andhra > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > grahan > > > > time > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > strage) > > and > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > > grahan > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > doing > > > > what > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > > tell > > > > you > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and > so > > is > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > Eclipses > > has > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > > people - > > > > who > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > > performing > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their > own > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > the > > lot > > > > are > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > driven > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > <angelgoel@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 dear prafullaji your reminding me of being off the thread by intruding on the message owned and started by RRji makes me withdraw from any further contribution from this thread. by the way the one and only reason i replied from that message from RRji was because, that was the last mail i could find on the continued thread of your first mail for which i responded. you are also ambivalent in your mails because in each mail you are saying that we are not discussing jyotish and yet you are actively contributing in each thread. as for myself, i have no hesitation in telling publicly that i do contribute in all threads wherever i could add few words, be it jyotish or non-jyotish. so i dont suggent any separate group or withdrawal for discussions on non- jyotish knowledge. with best wishes pandit arjun , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji, > > Little off the thread (as this thread was message from Ranjan ji to me). > > It may look like my observation, but any history student (or history > of various religions / sects like - Sikhism, Jainism, Budhism, Arya > Samaj etc) can vouch for the exploitation of society at large by > Karamkandi Brahmans. Unfortunately, some of these practioners (I > repeat - not the religion, rituals) have exploited society. If one can > go to any rural area, and can see, how these ritualistic demands from > ""godly" people, have ruined families. > > What I stated is history. and just like such religious preachings need > another dedicated forum, the history narration too deserve some corner > there. But certainly not the jyotish forum!! > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described as > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people in > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy knowledge > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of consecration. > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are gifted > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these brahmins > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and leningrad > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as some > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to reservation, > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a large > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime ago > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US and > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering or > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% of > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched to > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway station > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. this > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which are > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to leave > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > > beings equally as god. > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals at > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far from > > truth. > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now poojaris > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge monies. > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction are > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > > options, > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality > > of > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > > little > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so > > far? > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > > and > > > its > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, > > I > > > was > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each belief > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > > some > > > of > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in > > it. > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person > > like > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, > > for > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and > > in > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > > Example > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India > > has > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > > people > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths > > in > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > > > becomes > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > > some > > > of > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > > perhaps, > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > compliance > > > can > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the rituals > > in > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > > > often > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > > the "short > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > > collected, > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on > > day > > > to > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > > of "few" > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > > created > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > > systems, > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > > you > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > > > magic > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > > (religious, > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is > > a > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > > belief > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable > > and > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways > > of > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > > > would > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > > > fight, > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > > consider > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > > enough > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > > touch > > > and > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always > > do. > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > > beliefs > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > considerations > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > > > things > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > > > appeal > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > > question of > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > > true > > > and > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based > > on > > > my > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > > > small > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > > issue > > > is - > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > > events > > > like > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > pursuits? > > > Even > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > time "business". > > > > > Almost > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made a > > > big > > > > > mess > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about > > the > > > wrong > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > > correct > > > > > Ones > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > > who > > > are > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > > believed > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > > > them. > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > > nay, > > > an > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > > divine > > > idol > > > > > to > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti temple > > in > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > > grahan > > > > > time > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > strage) > > > and > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > > > grahan > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > > doing > > > > > what > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > > > tell > > > > > you > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; and > > so > > > is > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > Eclipses > > > has > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > > > people - > > > > > who > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their > > own > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > > the > > > lot > > > > > are > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > > driven > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, have > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given in > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot remember > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 dear kumar ji all humans are shudras when they are born. only by KARAM, one can grow to be a brahmin. the scriptures prescribed the qualities of a true brahmin which most brahmins of today, say 99.99% lack because of the changed world scenario. when invading armies kept a goal of collecting kilos of sacred threads daily by converting brahmins to their religion, even true brahmins have lost thier true values. i have no hesitation in admitting that i too lack many qualities of an ideal brahmin as described in these scriptures. with best wishes pandit arjun , "C.P.Kumar" <pacificsiam wrote: > > Dear Arjun Ji, > > Which Brahmins are you talking about ,the one who are brahmins by > birth or the one who are brahmins by karm, WHO IS A REAL BRAHMIN > PLS ENLIGHTEN US . > with Rgds > kumar > - In , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have grabbed > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described as > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their personal > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations are > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people in > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > knowledge > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of consecration. > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer land > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are gifted > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to live > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > brahmins > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and leningrad > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches but > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious propaganda) > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > some > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most civil > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > reservation, > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > large > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these brahmins. > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime ago > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, headmaster > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US and > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, engineering or > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% of > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not switched > to > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway station > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. this > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which are > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy noble > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to leave > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > > beings equally as god. > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few individuals at > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far from > > truth. > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > poojaris > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and to > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge monies. > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction are > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > > options, > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the reality > > of > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > > little > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen so > > far? > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between relgion > > and > > > its > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) itself, > > I > > > was > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > belief > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization of > > some > > > of > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white in > > it. > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common person > > like > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - who, > > for > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". and > > in > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. For > > > Example > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in India > > has > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > > people > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on deaths > > in > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well by > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion never > > > becomes > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do cause > > some > > > of > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > > perhaps, > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, Budhism, > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > compliance > > > can > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also do not > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > rituals > > in > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. This > > > often > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most cases > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > > the "short > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > > collected, > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people on > > day > > > to > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the benefits > > > of "few" > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > > created > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different belief > > > systems, > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda as > > you > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into grey > > > magic > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > > (religious, > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances or > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of acceptance' > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really be > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this is > > a > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > > belief > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily demonstrable > > and > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' ways > > of > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the horizon > > > would > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin to > > > fight, > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > > consider > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > > enough > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self and > > touch > > > and > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they always > > do. > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > > beliefs > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > considerations > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to reason > > > things > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour to > > > appeal > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily knowers or > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > > question of > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what is > > true > > > and > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely based > > on > > > my > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do with "Jyotish". > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct (very > > > small > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > > issue > > > is - > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which is > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > > events > > > like > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > pursuits? > > > Even > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India as > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > time "business". > > > > > Almost > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have made > a > > > big > > > > > mess > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother about > > the > > > wrong > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know the > > > correct > > > > > Ones > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some temples > > who > > > are > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it is > > > believed > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall on > > > them. > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > > nay, > > > an > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > > divine > > > idol > > > > > to > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > temple > > in > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > > grahan > > > > > time > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > strage) > > > and > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during the > > > grahan > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall keep > > doing > > > > > what > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others are > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will explicitly > > > tell > > > > > you > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; > and > > so > > > is > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > Eclipses > > > has > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are very "few" > > > people - > > > > > who > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods of > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in their > > own > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most in > > the > > > lot > > > > > are > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > > driven > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do not > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends itself, > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour 33 > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will end > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September 6th > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS > FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food in > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, > have > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in places > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), has > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > remember > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE > ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Beautiful! Now we all must live it for the rest of our existence! And while we do that, we must spend a few moments just bowing our heads to those who tried but couldn't! Just reality! Let us wake up to the reality of jyotish where water is likened to Brahmins, and other rashis to other varnas! Only through returning back to Jyotish shall we join the fountainhead of spirituality! RR , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear kumar ji > > all humans are shudras when they are born. only by KARAM, one can > grow to be a brahmin. > > the scriptures prescribed the qualities of a true brahmin which most > brahmins of today, say 99.99% lack because of the changed world > scenario. when invading armies kept a goal of collecting kilos of > sacred threads daily by converting brahmins to their religion, even > true brahmins have lost thier true values. i have no hesitation in > admitting that i too lack many qualities of an ideal brahmin as > described in these scriptures. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "C.P.Kumar" > <pacificsiam@> wrote: > > > > Dear Arjun Ji, > > > > Which Brahmins are you talking about ,the one who are brahmins by > > birth or the one who are brahmins by karm, WHO IS A REAL BRAHMIN > > PLS ENLIGHTEN US . > > with Rgds > > kumar > > - In , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > grabbed > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described > as > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > personal > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations > are > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL people > in > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > knowledge > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > consecration. > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer > land > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in all > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are > gifted > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to > live > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > brahmins > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that the > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > leningrad > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches > but > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > propaganda) > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > > some > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non brahmins > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most > civil > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > reservation, > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > > large > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > brahmins. > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime > ago > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for brahmins. > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > headmaster > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in US > and > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > engineering or > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% > of > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > switched > > to > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in poverty. > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway > station > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. > this > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which > are > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy > noble > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called educated > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to > leave > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are non > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > individuals at > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far > from > > > truth. > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > poojaris > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and > to > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > monies. > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal construction > are > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > > > options, > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > reality > > > of > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > > > little > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have seen > so > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > relgion > > > and > > > > its > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) > itself, > > > I > > > > was > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > > belief > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization > of > > > some > > > > of > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or white > in > > > it. > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common > person > > > like > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - > who, > > > for > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's very "faith". > and > > > in > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. > For > > > > Example > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in > India > > > has > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > > > people > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on > deaths > > > in > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well > by > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion > never > > > > becomes > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do > cause > > > some > > > > of > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in India - > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, > Budhism, > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > > compliance > > > > can > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also > do not > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > > rituals > > > in > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. > This > > > > often > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most > cases > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > > > the "short > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > > > collected, > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, people > on > > > day > > > > to > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > benefits > > > > of "few" > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > > > created > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different > belief > > > > systems, > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda > as > > > you > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into > grey > > > > magic > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > > > (religious, > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances > or > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > acceptance' > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really > be > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards (this > is > > > a > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > > > belief > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > demonstrable > > > and > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' > ways > > > of > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the > horizon > > > > would > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin > to > > > > fight, > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what we > > > > consider > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > > > enough > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self > and > > > touch > > > > and > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they > always > > > do. > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > > > beliefs > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > > considerations > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to > reason > > > > things > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour > to > > > > appeal > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > knowers or > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > > > question of > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what > is > > > true > > > > and > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely > based > > > on > > > > my > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct > (very > > > > small > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > > > issue > > > > is - > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which > is > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > > > events > > > > like > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > > pursuits? > > > > Even > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India > as > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > time "business". > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have > made > > a > > > > big > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother > about > > > the > > > > wrong > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know > the > > > > correct > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > temples > > > who > > > > are > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it > is > > > > believed > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall > on > > > > them. > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan period, > > > nay, > > > > an > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > > > divine > > > > idol > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > > temple > > > in > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during the > > > grahan > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > > strage) > > > > and > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during > the > > > > grahan > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall > keep > > > doing > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others > are > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > Gang" > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > explicitly > > > > tell > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given day; > > and > > > so > > > > is > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > > Eclipses > > > > has > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > very "few" > > > > people - > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" methods > of > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in > their > > > own > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most > in > > > the > > > > lot > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > > > driven > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), do > not > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour > 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will > end > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September > 6th > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS > > FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course no > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or food > in > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, > > have > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in > places > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), > has > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to a > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been given > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE > > ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji, Very interesting note!! Hope it changes the focus back to Jyotish !! If it does, I will be happier - even for the messages and subject lines. regards / Prafulla , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Beautiful! > Now we all must live it for the rest of our existence! > > And while we do that, we must spend a few moments just bowing our > heads to those who tried but couldn't! > > Just reality! > > Let us wake up to the reality of jyotish where water is likened to > Brahmins, and other rashis to other varnas! > > Only through returning back to Jyotish shall we join the fountainhead > of spirituality! > > RR > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear kumar ji > > > > all humans are shudras when they are born. only by KARAM, one can > > grow to be a brahmin. > > > > the scriptures prescribed the qualities of a true brahmin which > most > > brahmins of today, say 99.99% lack because of the changed world > > scenario. when invading armies kept a goal of collecting kilos of > > sacred threads daily by converting brahmins to their religion, even > > true brahmins have lost thier true values. i have no hesitation in > > admitting that i too lack many qualities of an ideal brahmin as > > described in these scriptures. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "C.P.Kumar" > > <pacificsiam@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Arjun Ji, > > > > > > Which Brahmins are you talking about ,the one who are brahmins by > > > birth or the one who are brahmins by karm, WHO IS A REAL BRAHMIN > > > PLS ENLIGHTEN US . > > > with Rgds > > > kumar > > > - In , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear prafullaji > > > > > > > > you have observed in one of your mails that brahmins have > > grabbed > > > > cows, lands etc. and exploited all. this can best be described > > as > > > > your personal observation as it is not a fact. > > > > > > > > in public groups, many members strive to put forth their > > personal > > > > views as they observe in their experience and understanding and > > > > expect general acceptance. in reality many such observations > > are > > > > aberrations seen in isolation. > > > > > > > > let me put some facts which none can deny: > > > > > > > > centuries ago brahmins never worked for a salary or offered any > > > > service for a living. they used to fix muhurtams for ALL > people > > in > > > > their areas, do karmakanda for ALL people and impart holy > > > knowledge > > > > and discourses to ALL besides maintaining the holiness of the > > > > sanctum sanctorum of the temples and other places of > > consecration. > > > > kings, panchayat presidents or local landlords used to offer > > land > > > > freely to these brahmins and also food grains and a cow. in > all > > > > karmakandas or for any auspicious happy occasions, they are > > gifted > > > > few items, clothes, money etc. and all such brahmins used to > > live > > > > 100% on donations given by the people VOLUNTARILY. these > > > brahmins > > > > also used to write books, teach the children of ALL people and > > > > entertain with their lyrical, music and dance skills > > > > > > > > however, with the pogrom and forced conversion to islam by the > > > > invading moghuls, brahmins have taken up jobs like teaching. > > > > > > > > later on in the last few decades with the rise of communism and > > > > patronage by the left parties (it is a different matter that > the > > > > best communist country russia is now full of churches and > > leningrad > > > > becomes st. petersberg and many schools turn back to churches > > but > > > > the indian counterparts still engage in anti religious > > propaganda) > > > > brahmins have been removed even from the posts of poojaris as > > > some > > > > state governemnts have started recruiting low caste non > brahmins > > > > unaware of any religious rituals for these holy jobs. most > > civil > > > > servants decades ago used to be brahmins and now due to > > > reservation, > > > > around 90% of government employees are non brahmins. still a > > > large > > > > hue and cry is made every day for the success of these > > brahmins. > > > > seeing the poor plight of these brahmins in minority, sometime > > ago > > > > mulayamsingh offered to consider a 5% reservation for > brahmins. > > > > within my family clan, we have great freedom fighters, > > headmaster > > > > and principals, poets, astrologers, doctors of most repute in > US > > and > > > > 100% younger generation are in most successful in IT, > > engineering or > > > > medicine profession and it is no exaggeration if i say that 99% > > of > > > > these younger intelligent generation are in US. > > > > > > > > in many cities you would find poor brahmins who have not > > switched > > > to > > > > other intelligent professions are still languishing in > poverty. > > > > every morning i find dozens of karmakandi brahmins standing or > > > > sitting on the footpath of the road in front of the railway > > station > > > > waiting for some customers to pick them for their daily wages. > > this > > > > is only because they have not adapted to the professions which > > are > > > > in belief as on date and are sticking to a century old holy > > noble > > > > profession which is not only ridiculed by the so called > educated > > > > scientists but also painted bad by the communists. > > > > > > > > having seen all this, i took it as a challenge for myself to > > leave > > > > my lucrative best mnc jobs and serve all the suffering people > > > > through our religious holy ways and most of my customers are > non > > > > brahmins and many are from other religions as i treat all human > > > > beings equally as god. > > > > > > > > prafullaji, your observation may be restricted to few > > individuals at > > > > best, but to say that KARMAKANDI BRAHMINS exploited all is far > > from > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > in delhi i have seen many bihari non-brahmin migrant illiterate > > > > workers posing as poojaris and cheating the customers. in some > > > > temples, the watchmen and sweepers of yesteryears are now > > > poojaris > > > > in the same temples which were built only for landgrabbing and > > to > > > > construct shops on all three sides and sell them for huge > > monies. > > > > most or all of thee landgrabbing mafias and illegal > construction > > are > > > > done by non-brahmins. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Personally ...? > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > I am born with just so few neurons, so few abilities, so few > > > > options, > > > > > such a little time and scope to live this lifetime! > > > > > > > > > > Do we have the time and ability and luxury of living the > > reality > > > > of > > > > > others who would impose on us their (?) reality and waste the > > > > little > > > > > time we have in this lifetime? > > > > > > > > > > Are they even worth the consideration, after what we have > seen > > so > > > > far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > > > > > > > I, perhaps could not express the distinction (between > > relgion > > > > and > > > > > its > > > > > > practioners). It is not the rituals (or belief systems) > > itself, > > > > I > > > > > was > > > > > > commenting about. They are "pure and acceptable" for each > > > belief > > > > > > system / religion. I am not talking about rationalization > > of > > > > some > > > > > of > > > > > > these systems; and agree that they can not be black or > white > > in > > > > it. > > > > > > These are based on faith, so rationalization (for common > > person > > > > like > > > > > > me) may be little too far stretching of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > The gray area is its practioners (for each belief system) - > > who, > > > > for > > > > > > commercial/ vested interests, misuses people's > very "faith". > > and > > > > in > > > > > > turn, creates lots of difficulties in the life of masses. > > For > > > > > Example > > > > > > - Various ritualistic charities to brahmins (cows etc) in > > India > > > > has > > > > > > been the biggest cause of sufferings in rural India - where > > > > people > > > > > > borrow money to meet such ritualistic needs (including on > > deaths > > > > in > > > > > > the family). These have led to massive exploitation as well > > by > > > > > > "karamkandi" brahmans, in the name of religion. Religion > > never > > > > > becomes > > > > > > source or cause of exploitation, but its practioners do > > cause > > > > some > > > > > of > > > > > > the wrong doings. Had these practices not surfaced in > India - > > > > > > > perhaps, > > > > > > there was no need to religious diversions (like Jainism, > > Budhism, > > > > > > Sikhisms, Arya Samaj etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > Purans / vedas / religious scriptures are not corrupted, its > > > > > > practioners are. Since "faith" itself is exploited, its > > > > compliance > > > > > can > > > > > > becomes "gainful" for few. But those quality brahmans also > > do not > > > > > > exist in numbers and those people who can understand the > > > rituals > > > > in > > > > > > true sense also have their own limitations in current yuga. > > This > > > > > often > > > > > > leads to misunderstood compliances of the rituals, in most > > cases > > > > > > (which is more harmful). Just attend any yagya, and observe > > > > > the "short > > > > > > cuts" followed - in the name of conveniences. Charities are > > > > > collected, > > > > > > land mafias uses these sentiments to grab huge lands, > people > > on > > > > day > > > > > to > > > > > > day life are asked to do x/y/z for next life for the > > benefits > > > > > of "few" > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > People know all these practices as well, but somehow "fear" > > > > created > > > > > > for "next life", makes them vulnerable for exploitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be some 'mixing' between different > > belief > > > > > systems, > > > > > > > let us for instance take jyotish and rituals (karmakanda > > as > > > > you > > > > > > > pointed out, though the rituals can further extend into > > grey > > > > > magic > > > > > > > and black magic etc). Individuals of different background > > > > > (religious, > > > > > > > cultural, educational etc) will have different tolerances > > or > > > > > > > acceptances of belief systems and the 'degree of > > acceptance' > > > > > > > or "degree of tolerance" would vary. No one would really > > be > > > > > > > completely rational ever by someone else's standards > (this > > is > > > > a > > > > > > > general statement, so no reader should take it > personally). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A rationalist would have a certain degree or perimeter of > > > > belief > > > > > > > which may be rather restricted but more readily > > demonstrable > > > > and > > > > > > > rather black and white. As we move into more 'accepting' > > ways > > > > of > > > > > > > thinking of reality, the perimeter would grow and the > > horizon > > > > > would > > > > > > > become less and less sharp and more accpeting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When belief systems interact and clash, individuals begin > > to > > > > > fight, > > > > > > > because we all must hold on to our core beliefs in what > we > > > > > consider > > > > > > > reality which is generally very personal though there are > > > > enough > > > > > > > commonalities which lead to formation of groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beliefs are often at the very core of our sense of self > > and > > > > touch > > > > > and > > > > > > > stir emotions, more in some, less in others, but they > > always > > > > do. > > > > > > > Jyotish falls in one of these perimeters where reason and > > > > beliefs > > > > > > > meet. It has enough contact with rational and logical > > > > > considerations > > > > > > > and thus appeals to 'rationalists' or those who like to > > reason > > > > > things > > > > > > > out, and also has enough of a mystical/mysterious flavour > > to > > > > > appeal > > > > > > > to those whose acceptance of "reality" is more forgiving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these groups are observers, not necessarily > > knowers or > > > > > > > certainly not all knowing (hence humans!) and it is not a > > > > > question of > > > > > > > right or wrong, necessarily. Only God perhaps knows what > > is > > > > true > > > > > and > > > > > > > what is not or right or wrong -- and I say that purely > > based > > > > on > > > > > my > > > > > > > personal belief ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the belief system and has little to do > > with "Jyotish". > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, there is very thin line between correct > > (very > > > > > small > > > > > > > > population) and wrong ones (very large population). The > > > > issue > > > > > is - > > > > > > > > knowledge of correct rituals, for its adherence..which > > is > > > > > missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are exploited by "karamkandi" bhramans (even on > > > > events > > > > > like > > > > > > > > deaths), which raises the big question on "purity" of > > > > pursuits? > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > the people who are "known" in different cities in India > > as > > > > > > > > authorities, are just making this their whole > > > > time "business". > > > > > > > Almost > > > > > > > > each temple, priests, remedial astrologers (???) have > > made > > > a > > > > > big > > > > > > > mess > > > > > > > > of faith. No state or city is exception !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right ..we must do and shall not bother > > about > > > > the > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > ones. I wish I could claim (unlike most), that I know > > the > > > > > correct > > > > > > > Ones > > > > > > > > !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear prafulla ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your observation is true to some people or some > > temples > > > > who > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > doing this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example, grahan is such a shadowy period that it > > is > > > > > believed > > > > > > > > > that even gods shall not have that grahan shadow fall > > on > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > hence all temples are closed during the grahan > period, > > > > nay, > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > additional cloth cover is kept as an umbrella for the > > > > divine > > > > > idol > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > protect from the grahan shadow. however, kalahasti > > > temple > > > > in > > > > > > > andhra > > > > > > > > > pradesh is keeping the temple not only open during > the > > > > grahan > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > but also doing special poojas AT MIDNIGHT (somewhat > > > > strage) > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > collecting donations for these special poojas during > > the > > > > > grahan > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since all these are expected in kaliyuga, we shall > > keep > > > > doing > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > is right without bothering too much about how others > > are > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla > > > Gang" > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one has interacted with yogis - they will > > explicitly > > > > > tell > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > any of the good charities can be done any given > day; > > > and > > > > so > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > prayers. Not because that prayers / charities on > > > > Eclipses > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > lesser > > > > > > > > > > relevance, but for the fact that, there are > > very "few" > > > > > people - > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > knows / practices the correct and "puristic" > methods > > of > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > > > them. and Such people spend most of their time in > > their > > > > own > > > > > > > > > pursuits > > > > > > > > > > (they are too occupied in their "own karma"). Most > > in > > > > the > > > > > lot > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > interested in making money ("Dukandari") from event > > > > driven > > > > > > > > > rituals, in > > > > > > > > > > every corner of the country on each of these > > occasions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , angel > > > > <angelgoel@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you suggest any particular item for daan > > > > > > > > > > > (donation) in this period or next day ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note:- After eclipse,next day (friday morning), > do > > not > > > > > > > > > > > eat anything without taking bath. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Manoj Sharma <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot please. > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Sir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th Night itself start and same night ends > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have mentioned eclipse would be only 1 hour > > 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may say as per English date since it ends > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12.00 midnight > > > > > > > > > > > > > ie.next English calendar date starts, so will > > end > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th morning > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.08 am. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manojsharma662000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jut to clear any confusion, the lunar > > eclipse is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the intervening night of September > > 6th > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th? Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCE LAHIRIS INDIAN EPHEMERIS > > > FOR 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > a.d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eclipse begins on Thursday September 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at night 23.35 and ends at same night on > > > 25.08 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Duration One hour 33 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This will be visible in India, of course > no > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is advised to view this.,except > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientist-astronomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Shri Pandit Arjunji has advised all > > devout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious people, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of various religions (as added by me) are > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to make full use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of these period, by taking name of their > > Isht > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devatas (Japa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and recitation), not to take water or > food > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sit on a seperate mat,not touch anything, > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bath after this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > period is over,then of course go to sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any Japa done near the ocean (Sea), near > > > > > > > > > > > > > religious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rivers (Ganga, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yamuna,Saraswati etc.), in temple, in > > places > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great masters have meditated and gained > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightment, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also during period of Grahana (Eclipse), > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thousands fold > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of results which normally would accrue to > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if he does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at other times and other places.The exact > > > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > counts , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how many thousand fold also has been > given > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shastras, I have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > personally read this, but now cannot > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and locate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor Dear members take advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppurtunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and increase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your spititual Bank balance, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE > > > ULTIMATE > > > > > > > > > > > > DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE > > > BLISS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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