Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Suryaji Namaskar, Your statement is not befitting of a Mahamuni??!! If your comments are restricted to Religious Items / Gems, etc it could hold some water, as the mindset of most buyers & sellers is transactional. India has come a long way, & it seems you have stood still. Kindly review your comments Sir, Best Rgds Abhi Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: And its like that with buying almost anything in India, almost anywhere in India. Pure BS. Pure backbiting. Surya - Richard Shaw Brown sacred-objects Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:27 AM Re: Re: bangkok gems Dear Aadi, If you want to know about Indian gem dealers I can tell you a few things. My first gemology guru was Raj Roop Tank whom I visited in Jaipur back in 1974. I still have his book, "Indian Gemology" which is English version of his Hindi book, Ratna Pariksha. It's all pretty old and dated. Like Mani Mala is practically useless these days because it is so dated and wrong in may ways. About clarity, here is an example, 30 years ago I bought a gem with a flaw. I pointed it out to the Indian dealer. He assured me it was normal and always like that. Later I was not able to sell that gem because of the flaw... so I took it back to the dealer and he refused to take it back! Why? Because, he pointed out, it had a big flaw! Another time I had sold a 100% loupe clean yellow sapphire to an American. He took to India and showed a gem dealer. The dealer informed him that he was cheated because no such quality exists in yellow sapphire. It's good we had a certificate. And finally, why don't I buy gems in India? Why is it that I never buy gems in India? Just think on that and you'll find the answer is obvious. Best rgds, Richard --- aadi291 <aadi291 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: > > Dear Richardsir, Namaste and thank you so much for your kind > reply...You > may be already knowing this but in Mumbai, the gem traders, big and > small, say if it is a genuine stone, it will always have a feather or > impurities!! I have seen clear gems but the traders themselves insist > that these cannot be flawless because the higher the lens, the better > the view of impurities! So 10x is not such a great criterion > according > to them though that is accepted worldwide..Another thing is that most > people use flawed gems and claim it has suited them well...Is their > some > astrological criterion for this? that if jupiter is with rahu/ketu > one > can wear a flawed gem? I have no clue and hope you will shed light on > this too..Secondly, though I and many believe that opposites should > not > be used, say cat's eye and ruby, or ruby and blue sapphire, i have > myself seen people wearing such combos and doing fine..they vouch for > these combos...your comments please... > > the third thing is that, like you talked about wearing in left and > right > hand, is there something that a pearl will give different result if > it > is worn in index finger? if yes, what? or a pukhraj is worn in the > last > finger..what about the thumb? there is no mention/talk about wearing > the > gem/ring in the thumb..is it because it points to the akash element? > > i am sorry to bother you with these but i tend to take some liberty > since you very kindly reply to all the queries which, at your age and > experience, might sound so naive.. > > with best regards > > aadi > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, "Richard Shaw-Brown" > <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > > Dear Aadi, > > > > Namaste!!! Most corundum stones (rubies & sapphires) are heat > treated > > the world over. Even at the mines they are heat treating, in > Africa, > > in Sri Lanka, Thailand, everywhere. But they do not heat all of > them. > > Some are too light color and would not improve. > > > > As everywhere Bangkok corundum gems of good quality are heated. > This > > is permanent improvement from within the gem. It will never change. > > > > The kind of treatments that fade are like radiation. Some light > yellow > > sapphire are iradiated to make strong yellow...this will fade away > in > > Sun light or heat. > > > > Origin of gems is important because of the unique qualities. Like > > Burma rubies glow in SW UV light, by Thai rubies do not. But if 2 > gems > > from different locations had the same qualities then there would be > no > > difference. > > > > Indian rubies are not clear. They range from opaque to translucent, > > but never clear. And unless red corundum is "transparent" and clear > > then it is not called "ruby" but is called industrial red corundum. > > These stones are very bad quality, and VERY unlucky. Anyone wearing > > Indian ruby will be sorry. Just like it says in Sri Garuda Puranam > > about rubies, "A ruby, although genuine, should not be worn if it > has > > strong color banding, excessive inclusions within like numerous > > internal cracks, a sandy appearance, a rough surface, or is dull > and > > lusterless. Anyone using such a flawed ruby, even out of ignorance, > > will suffer from disease, or loss of fortune." ---Sri Garuda > Puranam: > > Chap. 70 > > > > Bombay and Jaipur gem dealers can talk anything, but the fact is > they > all get their GOOD rubies and sapphires from OUTSIDE India, such as > from > Thailand and Sri Lanka. India has many kinds of gems in fine quality, > such as Moonstone, Hessonite, etc., but apart from the exhausted > Kashmir > mines, all rubies and sapphires are smuggled into India. > > > > Hope this helps... > > > > Y/s, > > Richard > > > > sacred-objects, "aadi291" aadi291@ wrote: > > > > > > dear richard sir, namaste! > > > i heard that bangkok gems like yellow and blue sapphires are > treated > > > ones. are all bangkok gems treated? are they cheaper than > srilankan > > > ones? if the gem is of the same--yellow sapphire-does it give > same > > > effect irrespective of its origin? i think the origin > matters..but > you > > > are the best judge..how can indian ruby and burmese ruby give the > same > > > result although both may be of the same gem quality, i wonder.. > > > in mumbai, i am told by gem dealers that the bangkok sapphires > are > > > cheaper and their colour gives away after a couple of > years..please > > > comment..another thing they say is that in srilankan gems, it is > very > > > rare to find flawless clean gem..what you cannot see with a 10x, > a > > > feather or a dot, you can always detect by a 20x is what the > traders > > > say...flawed gems are speedily sold here.. > > > your reply is eagerly awaited. > > > wrgds > > > aadi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. 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Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Sir, I wish it wasn't the case. I was just citing my own experiences, even in Holy cities like Hardwar, Rishikesh and Varanasi. These were with religious items and gems as well. It wasn't as bad I guess with woolen shawls in Almora. Pranams, Surya - Abhishek Dutta sacred-objects Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:19 PM Re: Re: Kind Attn: Mahamuni Das; bangkok gems Suryaji Namaskar, Your statement is not befitting of a Mahamuni??!! If your comments are restricted to Religious Items / Gems, etc it could hold some water, as the mindset of most buyers & sellers is transactional. India has come a long way, & it seems you have stood still. Kindly review your comments Sir, Best Rgds Abhi Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: And its like that with buying almost anything in India, almost anywhere in India. Pure BS. Pure backbiting. Surya - Richard Shaw Brown sacred-objects Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:27 AM Re: Re: bangkok gems Dear Aadi, If you want to know about Indian gem dealers I can tell you a few things. My first gemology guru was Raj Roop Tank whom I visited in Jaipur back in 1974. I still have his book, "Indian Gemology" which is English version of his Hindi book, Ratna Pariksha. It's all pretty old and dated. Like Mani Mala is practically useless these days because it is so dated and wrong in may ways. About clarity, here is an example, 30 years ago I bought a gem with a flaw. I pointed it out to the Indian dealer. He assured me it was normal and always like that. Later I was not able to sell that gem because of the flaw... so I took it back to the dealer and he refused to take it back! Why? Because, he pointed out, it had a big flaw! Another time I had sold a 100% loupe clean yellow sapphire to an American. He took to India and showed a gem dealer. The dealer informed him that he was cheated because no such quality exists in yellow sapphire. It's good we had a certificate. And finally, why don't I buy gems in India? Why is it that I never buy gems in India? Just think on that and you'll find the answer is obvious. Best rgds, Richard --- aadi291 <aadi291 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: > > Dear Richardsir, Namaste and thank you so much for your kind > reply...You > may be already knowing this but in Mumbai, the gem traders, big and > small, say if it is a genuine stone, it will always have a feather or > impurities!! I have seen clear gems but the traders themselves insist > that these cannot be flawless because the higher the lens, the better > the view of impurities! So 10x is not such a great criterion > according > to them though that is accepted worldwide..Another thing is that most > people use flawed gems and claim it has suited them well...Is their > some > astrological criterion for this? that if jupiter is with rahu/ketu > one > can wear a flawed gem? I have no clue and hope you will shed light on > this too..Secondly, though I and many believe that opposites should > not > be used, say cat's eye and ruby, or ruby and blue sapphire, i have > myself seen people wearing such combos and doing fine..they vouch for > these combos...your comments please... > > the third thing is that, like you talked about wearing in left and > right > hand, is there something that a pearl will give different result if > it > is worn in index finger? if yes, what? or a pukhraj is worn in the > last > finger..what about the thumb? there is no mention/talk about wearing > the > gem/ring in the thumb..is it because it points to the akash element? > > i am sorry to bother you with these but i tend to take some liberty > since you very kindly reply to all the queries which, at your age and > experience, might sound so naive.. > > with best regards > > aadi > > > > > > > > > sacred-objects, "Richard Shaw-Brown" > <rsbj66 > wrote: > > > > Dear Aadi, > > > > Namaste!!! Most corundum stones (rubies & sapphires) are heat > treated > > the world over. Even at the mines they are heat treating, in > Africa, > > in Sri Lanka, Thailand, everywhere. But they do not heat all of > them. > > Some are too light color and would not improve. > > > > As everywhere Bangkok corundum gems of good quality are heated. > This > > is permanent improvement from within the gem. It will never change. > > > > The kind of treatments that fade are like radiation. Some light > yellow > > sapphire are iradiated to make strong yellow...this will fade away > in > > Sun light or heat. > > > > Origin of gems is important because of the unique qualities. Like > > Burma rubies glow in SW UV light, by Thai rubies do not. But if 2 > gems > > from different locations had the same qualities then there would be > no > > difference. > > > > Indian rubies are not clear. They range from opaque to translucent, > > but never clear. And unless red corundum is "transparent" and clear > > then it is not called "ruby" but is called industrial red corundum. > > These stones are very bad quality, and VERY unlucky. Anyone wearing > > Indian ruby will be sorry. Just like it says in Sri Garuda Puranam > > about rubies, "A ruby, although genuine, should not be worn if it > has > > strong color banding, excessive inclusions within like numerous > > internal cracks, a sandy appearance, a rough surface, or is dull > and > > lusterless. Anyone using such a flawed ruby, even out of ignorance, > > will suffer from disease, or loss of fortune." ---Sri Garuda > Puranam: > > Chap. 70 > > > > Bombay and Jaipur gem dealers can talk anything, but the fact is > they > all get their GOOD rubies and sapphires from OUTSIDE India, such as > from > Thailand and Sri Lanka. India has many kinds of gems in fine quality, > such as Moonstone, Hessonite, etc., but apart from the exhausted > Kashmir > mines, all rubies and sapphires are smuggled into India. > > > > Hope this helps... > > > > Y/s, > > Richard > > > > sacred-objects, "aadi291" aadi291@ wrote: > > > > > > dear richard sir, namaste! > > > i heard that bangkok gems like yellow and blue sapphires are > treated > > > ones. are all bangkok gems treated? are they cheaper than > srilankan > > > ones? if the gem is of the same--yellow sapphire-does it give > same > > > effect irrespective of its origin? i think the origin > matters..but > you > > > are the best judge..how can indian ruby and burmese ruby give the > same > > > result although both may be of the same gem quality, i wonder.. > > > in mumbai, i am told by gem dealers that the bangkok sapphires > are > > > cheaper and their colour gives away after a couple of > years..please > > > comment..another thing they say is that in srilankan gems, it is > very > > > rare to find flawless clean gem..what you cannot see with a 10x, > a > > > feather or a dot, you can always detect by a 20x is what the > traders > > > say...flawed gems are speedily sold here.. > > > your reply is eagerly awaited. > > > wrgds > > > aadi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. 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