Humility & Not learning/ AtmaKaraka - Karaka for SELF

August 30, 2006

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

You have made a great statement by questioning ATMA-KARAKA as karaka

for Soul rather than Karaka for Self.This is simply Brilliant.I

request Shri K.N.Raoji to make a note of this and give his valauable

opinion.There is no chara Karaka for Mana,then why for soul?.Thus i

feel it is the joining of Self and Amatya that is giving a Rajayoga.

Also it will solve all the doubts revolving around SWAMSHA.Shri

Sanjay Rath once asked my opinion about Swamsha.I feel,if memory

serves right,i said, it can either mean the own amsha of a planet or

it can mean the amsha of Lagna. As Swa means Own.If Atma karaka is

self then Swamsha is clear.

Karakamsha and Swamsha results are the same in Upadesha Sutras and

your opinion is going to open a totally new angle.

Thanks

Pardeep

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> I do not think sage Parashara was talking about strength when he

> called Surya and Chandra as Satwik. He was discussing the gunas of

> all the planets in shloka 22, whereas he talked about satwa of

Kuja

> while commenting on planetary governances in shlokas 12-13 of

BPHS.

> The contexts are totally different and the satwa of kuja is

> definitely not the satwa of Sun, Moon and Jupiter.

>

> Parashara described Sun as "sarvaatma cha divaanathaH" in shloka

12

> of BPHS, dealing with planetary governances, and not in relation

to

> Atmakaraka.

>

> Even as the sthira Atma Karaka, Sun represents the most evolved

> state of consciousness. Can such a state accommodate Ego? I am

> sorry, but I can not find a reference in BPHS about Sun

representing

> Ego. Could you please point it out to me?

>

> There's no dispute about Sun being "krura"...as a king needs to be

> occasionally in order to discharge his duty. Even Sagittarius is

> described as "a battleground" and a kshatriya sign, despite being

> owned by a brahmin. Light is always considered cruel by Darkness.

> Lord Krishna was considered cruel because He instigated the

> Kurukshetra war. Lord Nrisimha is considered cruel because of the

> way in which He killed Hiranya kashyapa. The cruelty was created &

> deserved by the wishes and acts of the opponents. I am sure Rahu

> thought Sun as very cruel too when he was caught masquerading.

>

> Being a King means one vested with absolute authority, power,

> responsibility for maintenance of order and sustenance. I am sure

> when Parashara used to term "king" he used it to convey the above

> and his model was more Lord Vishnu ("vaishnavomsaH parassooryaH")

> than some kings who were synonyms for ego. I am sure that's why he

> chose Sun as representative of Sri Rama, the most humble of the

> dasavataras. Sri Rama was unflinching in execution of his duty,

> which perhaps bordered on cruelty on certain occasions, but He's

> revered as Purushottama, and I don't think "ego" was one of His

> problems:--)) Infact, most of the spiritual giants like Rama,

> Krishna, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Shankaracharya, Aurobindo,

> Vivekananda (to quote only a few)etc have Sun in great strength in

> their charts!!

>

> Sun represents a state of being/knowledge, which in itself does

not

> imply ahamkaara. It's "thinking" about that state of being and

> acting accordingly that leads to ahamkara and "thought" is always

> the forte of vayu tattwa!!

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> but does the word "krura" encompass the attribute of ego?

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> >

> > I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little

ones.

> I am

> > sure so did you and your family.

> >

> > You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the sage

> and

> > Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the

> nature of

> > Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura,

> certainly not

> > some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya

is

> to

> > fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as

> Brahmin

> > and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser. Now the

> reason

> > for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of

Sanskrit

> > language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in

perhaps

> that

> > respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we

> know that

> > Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice

the

> same

> > confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a

beginner

> is

> > confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

> >

> > You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things that I

> > commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of

Vishnu

> but

> > that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise

there

> would

> > not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were written.

I

> would

> > not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that many of

> Kings

> > of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard decision that

> hurt

> > even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing

> justice,

> > though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished

> were not

> > guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to

> appear to

> > be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak

depends

> on how

> > the event is viewed.

> >

> > Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun

does

> > represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we

also

> know

> > him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level.

> Therefore

> > the fact that planets in different context have different

> behavioral

> > traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma

> karaka

> > (karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari script of

> BPHS you

> > will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara

> karakas,

> > though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

> >

> > The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my mind,

> is

> > explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes

under

> > control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs

when

> an

> > Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully

> described

> > by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that

it

> will

> > remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is born in a

> body it

> > gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this state

> is

> > called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part of the

> > formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma,

in

> living

> > being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on

its

> > placement and strength.

> >

> > You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar

> Chintamani and

> > others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya. Do not

> forget

> > that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

> >

> > I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well

versed

> in

> > scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am

trying

> to

> > tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a

> pleasure

> > to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of

scriptures

> and

> > jyotish.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a

wonderful

> > > Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

> > >

> > > Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

> > > planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign

Leo

> > > also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the

> dharma

> > > trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> > > Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> > > guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to

happiness

> and

> > > knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and

as

> > > significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the

ultimate

> > > Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is

aksharam,

> > > while the frail ego is bruised at every little

> affront...perceived

> > > or real!

> > >

> > > The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because

Sun

> is

> > > a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to

take/implement

> hard

> > > decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

> > > necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are

supposed

> to

> > > be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu

is

> said

> > > to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> > > Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> > > celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that

this

> > > point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

> > > again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and

king

> of

> > > planets.

> > >

> > > >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth

and

> > > differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps

ego

> > > too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he

is

> > > more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for

ego.

> > > Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends

to

> > > obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people

> talk

> > > of punctured egos!!

> > >

> > > Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> > > opportunity to learn from you:--))

> > >

> > > Waiting for your corrections,

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

> > >

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > >

> > > > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> > > >

> > > > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about

Sun

> the

> > > planet

> > > > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

> > > Krura,

> > > > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi".

If

> > > you mark

> > > > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able

to

> take

> > > hard

> > > > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much

pleased

> with

> > > those

> > > > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has

> Bhaats

> > > in

> > > > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> > > >

> > > > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason

we

> are

> > > born

> > > > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates

> illusion

> > > to

> > > > others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

> > > connected

> > > > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> > > >

> > > > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry

if I

> > > gave

> > > > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that

he

> is a

> > > > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling

the

> > > the

> > > > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> > > Universe as

> > > > do all the Puranas.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > > > >

> > > > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is

> something

> > > that

> > > > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is

> said

> > > to

> > > > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He

> represents

> > > pure

> > > > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents

ego.

> > > Rahu

> > > > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of

> oneself,

> > > > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu

> Astrology"

> > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of

> thoughts

> > > > > as "me". It

> > > > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

> > > wherein

> > > > > the ego

> > > > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its

> identification

> > > > > with one's

> > > > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > > > > is the separative self.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego

when

> one

> > > > > feels

> > > > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant

> manner.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

> > > wherein

> > > > > one feels

> > > > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to

serve

> him.

> > > > > Extreme

> > > > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the

> separative

> > > > > form of ego

> > > > > > (of the first

> > > > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the

2

> and 3

> > > > > forms

> > > > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents

the

> ego.

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its

> light;

> > > > > like

> > > > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> > > effulgent

> > > > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> > > (Consciousness,

> > > > > seemingly

> > > > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate

> between

> > > the

> > > > > Jivatma

> > > > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to

> represent

> > > the

> > > > > Ego.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from

> one's

> > > > > mistake is

> > > > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna

and

> > > > > lagnesh. This

> > > > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma

> trikonas.

> > > The

> > > > > 2nd factor

> > > > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

> > > reason).

> > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If

Tamas

> > > grahas

> > > > > are

> > > > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and

> lords

> > > of

> > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self

help

> and

> > > > > analysis

> > > > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on

> and

> > > on.

> > > > > However, I

> > > > > > shall end it here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery &

> Dharma

> > > > > Trikona

> > > > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to

> ego.

> > > Sun

> > > > > > > represents

> > > > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will

> be one

> > > > > such

> > > > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like

Aries

> and

> > > you

> > > > > get the

> > > > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the

> combination

> > > for

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

> > > native's

> > > > > chart?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by

> example &

> > > > > telling the

> > > > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think

> here

> > > again

> > > > > grammar

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can

tell

> the

> > > > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the

> lesson

> > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has

to

> be

> > > > > learnt. And

> > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

> > > fashioned

> > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But

still

> if

> > > > > elders do

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is

> self

> > > > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I

> must

> > > > > decline. At

> > > > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can

> and be

> > > > > away from

> > > > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji

> the

> > > > > Moderator of

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that

would

> > > serve,

> > > > > since

> > > > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

> > > previleges

> > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

> > > required

> > > > > in this

> > > > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by

> owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too

> technical

> > > to

> > > > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do

> this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > > > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you

> wish to

> > > > > accomplish

> > > > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list

once

> in 4

> > > > > months but

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This

list

> > > > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should

become

> a

> > > > > Moderator.

> > > > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should

propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

have

> been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

--

> ----

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ----------------

--

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ----------------------

--

> -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 -

> Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > 8/24/2006

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

August 31, 2006

Dear Pradeep,

I am glad you see my point. The observation about there being no Chara

karaka for Mana is astute.

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> You have made a great statement by questioning ATMA-KARAKA as karaka

> for Soul rather than Karaka for Self.This is simply Brilliant.I

> request Shri K.N.Raoji to make a note of this and give his valauable

> opinion.There is no chara Karaka for Mana,then why for soul?.Thus i

> feel it is the joining of Self and Amatya that is giving a Rajayoga.

>

> Also it will solve all the doubts revolving around SWAMSHA.Shri

> Sanjay Rath once asked my opinion about Swamsha.I feel,if memory

> serves right,i said, it can either mean the own amsha of a planet or

> it can mean the amsha of Lagna. As Swa means Own.If Atma karaka is

> self then Swamsha is clear.

> Karakamsha and Swamsha results are the same in Upadesha Sutras and

> your opinion is going to open a totally new angle.

> Thanks

> Pardeep

>

> <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > I do not think sage Parashara was talking about strength when he

> > called Surya and Chandra as Satwik. He was discussing the gunas of

> > all the planets in shloka 22, whereas he talked about satwa of

> Kuja

> > while commenting on planetary governances in shlokas 12-13 of

> BPHS.

> > The contexts are totally different and the satwa of kuja is

> > definitely not the satwa of Sun, Moon and Jupiter.

> >

> > Parashara described Sun as "sarvaatma cha divaanathaH" in shloka

> 12

> > of BPHS, dealing with planetary governances, and not in relation

> to

> > Atmakaraka.

> >

> > Even as the sthira Atma Karaka, Sun represents the most evolved

> > state of consciousness. Can such a state accommodate Ego? I am

> > sorry, but I can not find a reference in BPHS about Sun

> representing

> > Ego. Could you please point it out to me?

> >

> > There's no dispute about Sun being "krura"...as a king needs to be

> > occasionally in order to discharge his duty. Even Sagittarius is

> > described as "a battleground" and a kshatriya sign, despite being

> > owned by a brahmin. Light is always considered cruel by Darkness.

> > Lord Krishna was considered cruel because He instigated the

> > Kurukshetra war. Lord Nrisimha is considered cruel because of the

> > way in which He killed Hiranya kashyapa. The cruelty was created &

> > deserved by the wishes and acts of the opponents. I am sure Rahu

> > thought Sun as very cruel too when he was caught masquerading.

> >

> > Being a King means one vested with absolute authority, power,

> > responsibility for maintenance of order and sustenance. I am sure

> > when Parashara used to term "king" he used it to convey the above

> > and his model was more Lord Vishnu ("vaishnavomsaH parassooryaH")

> > than some kings who were synonyms for ego. I am sure that's why he

> > chose Sun as representative of Sri Rama, the most humble of the

> > dasavataras. Sri Rama was unflinching in execution of his duty,

> > which perhaps bordered on cruelty on certain occasions, but He's

> > revered as Purushottama, and I don't think "ego" was one of His

> > problems:--)) Infact, most of the spiritual giants like Rama,

> > Krishna, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Shankaracharya, Aurobindo,

> > Vivekananda (to quote only a few)etc have Sun in great strength in

> > their charts!!

> >

> > Sun represents a state of being/knowledge, which in itself does

> not

> > imply ahamkaara. It's "thinking" about that state of being and

> > acting accordingly that leads to ahamkara and "thought" is always

> > the forte of vayu tattwa!!

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > but does the word "krura" encompass the attribute of ego?

> >

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > >

> > > I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little

> ones.

> > I am

> > > sure so did you and your family.

> > >

> > > You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the sage

> > and

> > > Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the

> > nature of

> > > Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura,

> > certainly not

> > > some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya

> is

> > to

> > > fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as

> > Brahmin

> > > and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser. Now the

> > reason

> > > for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of

> Sanskrit

> > > language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in

> perhaps

> > that

> > > respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we

> > know that

> > > Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice

> the

> > same

> > > confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a

> beginner

> > is

> > > confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

> > >

> > > You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things that I

> > > commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of

> Vishnu

> > but

> > > that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise

> there

> > would

> > > not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were written.

> I

> > would

> > > not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that many of

> > Kings

> > > of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard decision that

> > hurt

> > > even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing

> > justice,

> > > though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished

> > were not

> > > guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to

> > appear to

> > > be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak

> depends

> > on how

> > > the event is viewed.

> > >

> > > Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun

> does

> > > represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we

> also

> > know

> > > him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level.

> > Therefore

> > > the fact that planets in different context have different

> > behavioral

> > > traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma

> > karaka

> > > (karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari script of

> > BPHS you

> > > will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara

> > karakas,

> > > though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

> > >

> > > The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my mind,

> > is

> > > explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes

> under

> > > control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs

> when

> > an

> > > Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully

> > described

> > > by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that

> it

> > will

> > > remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is born in a

> > body it

> > > gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this state

> > is

> > > called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part of the

> > > formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma,

> in

> > living

> > > being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on

> its

> > > placement and strength.

> > >

> > > You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar

> > Chintamani and

> > > others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya. Do not

> > forget

> > > that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

> > >

> > > I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well

> versed

> > in

> > > scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am

> trying

> > to

> > > tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a

> > pleasure

> > > to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of

> scriptures

> > and

> > > jyotish.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a

> wonderful

> > > > Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

> > > >

> > > > Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

> > > > planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign

> Leo

> > > > also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the

> > dharma

> > > > trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> > > > Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> > > > guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to

> happiness

> > and

> > > > knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and

> as

> > > > significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the

> ultimate

> > > > Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is

> aksharam,

> > > > while the frail ego is bruised at every little

> > affront...perceived

> > > > or real!

> > > >

> > > > The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because

> Sun

> > is

> > > > a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to

> take/implement

> > hard

> > > > decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

> > > > necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are

> supposed

> > to

> > > > be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu

> is

> > said

> > > > to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> > > > Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> > > > celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that

> this

> > > > point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

> > > > again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and

> king

> > of

> > > > planets.

> > > >

> > > > >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth

> and

> > > > differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps

> ego

> > > > too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he

> is

> > > > more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for

> ego.

> > > > Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends

> to

> > > > obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people

> > talk

> > > > of punctured egos!!

> > > >

> > > > Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> > > > opportunity to learn from you:--))

> > > >

> > > > Waiting for your corrections,

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

> > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > >

> > > > > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> > > > >

> > > > > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about

> Sun

> > the

> > > > planet

> > > > > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

> > > > Krura,

> > > > > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi".

> If

> > > > you mark

> > > > > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able

> to

> > take

> > > > hard

> > > > > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much

> pleased

> > with

> > > > those

> > > > > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has

> > Bhaats

> > > > in

> > > > > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason

> we

> > are

> > > > born

> > > > > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates

> > illusion

> > > > to

> > > > > others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

> > > > connected

> > > > > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> > > > >

> > > > > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry

> if I

> > > > gave

> > > > > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that

> he

> > is a

> > > > > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling

> the

> > > > the

> > > > > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> > > > Universe as

> > > > > do all the Puranas.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is

> > something

> > > > that

> > > > > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is

> > said

> > > > to

> > > > > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He

> > represents

> > > > pure

> > > > > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents

> ego.

> > > > Rahu

> > > > > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of

> > oneself,

> > > > > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > > > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu

> > Astrology"

> > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of

> > thoughts

> > > > > > as "me". It

> > > > > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

> > > > wherein

> > > > > > the ego

> > > > > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its

> > identification

> > > > > > with one's

> > > > > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > > > > > is the separative self.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego

> when

> > one

> > > > > > feels

> > > > > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant

> > manner.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

> > > > wherein

> > > > > > one feels

> > > > > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to

> serve

> > him.

> > > > > > Extreme

> > > > > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the

> > separative

> > > > > > form of ego

> > > > > > > (of the first

> > > > > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the

> 2

> > and 3

> > > > > > forms

> > > > > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents

> the

> > ego.

> > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its

> > light;

> > > > > > like

> > > > > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> > > > effulgent

> > > > > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> > > > (Consciousness,

> > > > > > seemingly

> > > > > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate

> > between

> > > > the

> > > > > > Jivatma

> > > > > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to

> > represent

> > > > the

> > > > > > Ego.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from

> > one's

> > > > > > mistake is

> > > > > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna

> and

> > > > > > lagnesh. This

> > > > > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma

> > trikonas.

> > > > The

> > > > > > 2nd factor

> > > > > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

> > > > reason).

> > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If

> Tamas

> > > > grahas

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and

> > lords

> > > > of

> > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self

> help

> > and

> > > > > > analysis

> > > > > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on

> > and

> > > > on.

> > > > > > However, I

> > > > > > > shall end it here.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery &

> > Dharma

> > > > > > Trikona

> > > > > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to

> > ego.

> > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > represents

> > > > > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will

> > be one

> > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like

> Aries

> > and

> > > > you

> > > > > > get the

> > > > > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the

> > combination

> > > > for

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

> > > > native's

> > > > > > chart?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by

> > example &

> > > > > > telling the

> > > > > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think

> > here

> > > > again

> > > > > > grammar

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can

> tell

> > the

> > > > > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the

> > lesson

> > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has

> to

> > be

> > > > > > learnt. And

> > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

> > > > fashioned

> > > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But

> still

> > if

> > > > > > elders do

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is

> > self

> > > > > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I

> > must

> > > > > > decline. At

> > > > > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can

> > and be

> > > > > > away from

> > > > > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji

> > the

> > > > > > Moderator of

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that

> would

> > > > serve,

> > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

> > > > previleges

> > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

> > > > required

> > > > > > in this

> > > > > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by

> > owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too

> > technical

> > > > to

> > > > > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do

> > this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > > > > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you

> > wish to

> > > > > > accomplish

> > > > > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list

> once

> > in 4

> > > > > > months but

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This

> list

> > > > > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should

> become

> > a

> > > > > > Moderator.

> > > > > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should

> propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have

> > been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

> --

> > ----

> > > > ----

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> --

> > ----

> > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ----------------------

> --

> > -

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 -

> > Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > 8/24/2006

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

August 31, 2006

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Thanks for the comments.I feel we are referring to

charakarakatwas.Because as it very clear under general

karakatwas(sthira?) Sun is for atma and Moon for mana.

Respect

Pradeep

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I am glad you see my point. The observation about there being no Chara

> karaka for Mana is astute.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > You have made a great statement by questioning ATMA-KARAKA as karaka

> > for Soul rather than Karaka for Self.This is simply Brilliant.I

> > request Shri K.N.Raoji to make a note of this and give his valauable

> > opinion.There is no chara Karaka for Mana,then why for soul?.Thus i

> > feel it is the joining of Self and Amatya that is giving a Rajayoga.

> >

> > Also it will solve all the doubts revolving around SWAMSHA.Shri

> > Sanjay Rath once asked my opinion about Swamsha.I feel,if memory

> > serves right,i said, it can either mean the own amsha of a planet or

> > it can mean the amsha of Lagna. As Swa means Own.If Atma karaka is

> > self then Swamsha is clear.

> > Karakamsha and Swamsha results are the same in Upadesha Sutras and

> > your opinion is going to open a totally new angle.

> > Thanks

> > Pardeep

> >

> > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > I do not think sage Parashara was talking about strength when he

> > > called Surya and Chandra as Satwik. He was discussing the gunas of

> > > all the planets in shloka 22, whereas he talked about satwa of

> > Kuja

> > > while commenting on planetary governances in shlokas 12-13 of

> > BPHS.

> > > The contexts are totally different and the satwa of kuja is

> > > definitely not the satwa of Sun, Moon and Jupiter.

> > >

> > > Parashara described Sun as "sarvaatma cha divaanathaH" in shloka

> > 12

> > > of BPHS, dealing with planetary governances, and not in relation

> > to

> > > Atmakaraka.

> > >

> > > Even as the sthira Atma Karaka, Sun represents the most evolved

> > > state of consciousness. Can such a state accommodate Ego? I am

> > > sorry, but I can not find a reference in BPHS about Sun

> > representing

> > > Ego. Could you please point it out to me?

> > >

> > > There's no dispute about Sun being "krura"...as a king needs to be

> > > occasionally in order to discharge his duty. Even Sagittarius is

> > > described as "a battleground" and a kshatriya sign, despite being

> > > owned by a brahmin. Light is always considered cruel by Darkness.

> > > Lord Krishna was considered cruel because He instigated the

> > > Kurukshetra war. Lord Nrisimha is considered cruel because of the

> > > way in which He killed Hiranya kashyapa. The cruelty was created &

> > > deserved by the wishes and acts of the opponents. I am sure Rahu

> > > thought Sun as very cruel too when he was caught masquerading.

> > >

> > > Being a King means one vested with absolute authority, power,

> > > responsibility for maintenance of order and sustenance. I am sure

> > > when Parashara used to term "king" he used it to convey the above

> > > and his model was more Lord Vishnu ("vaishnavomsaH parassooryaH")

> > > than some kings who were synonyms for ego. I am sure that's why he

> > > chose Sun as representative of Sri Rama, the most humble of the

> > > dasavataras. Sri Rama was unflinching in execution of his duty,

> > > which perhaps bordered on cruelty on certain occasions, but He's

> > > revered as Purushottama, and I don't think "ego" was one of His

> > > problems:--)) Infact, most of the spiritual giants like Rama,

> > > Krishna, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Shankaracharya, Aurobindo,

> > > Vivekananda (to quote only a few)etc have Sun in great strength in

> > > their charts!!

> > >

> > > Sun represents a state of being/knowledge, which in itself does

> > not

> > > imply ahamkaara. It's "thinking" about that state of being and

> > > acting accordingly that leads to ahamkara and "thought" is always

> > > the forte of vayu tattwa!!

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > but does the word "krura" encompass the attribute of ego?

> > >

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > >

> > > > I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little

> > ones.

> > > I am

> > > > sure so did you and your family.

> > > >

> > > > You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the sage

> > > and

> > > > Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the

> > > nature of

> > > > Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura,

> > > certainly not

> > > > some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya

> > is

> > > to

> > > > fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as

> > > Brahmin

> > > > and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser. Now the

> > > reason

> > > > for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of

> > Sanskrit

> > > > language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in

> > perhaps

> > > that

> > > > respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we

> > > know that

> > > > Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice

> > the

> > > same

> > > > confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a

> > beginner

> > > is

> > > > confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

> > > >

> > > > You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things that I

> > > > commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of

> > Vishnu

> > > but

> > > > that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise

> > there

> > > would

> > > > not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were written.

> > I

> > > would

> > > > not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that many of

> > > Kings

> > > > of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard decision that

> > > hurt

> > > > even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing

> > > justice,

> > > > though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished

> > > were not

> > > > guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to

> > > appear to

> > > > be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak

> > depends

> > > on how

> > > > the event is viewed.

> > > >

> > > > Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun

> > does

> > > > represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we

> > also

> > > know

> > > > him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level.

> > > Therefore

> > > > the fact that planets in different context have different

> > > behavioral

> > > > traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma

> > > karaka

> > > > (karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari script of

> > > BPHS you

> > > > will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara

> > > karakas,

> > > > though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

> > > >

> > > > The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my mind,

> > > is

> > > > explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes

> > under

> > > > control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs

> > when

> > > an

> > > > Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully

> > > described

> > > > by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that

> > it

> > > will

> > > > remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is born in a

> > > body it

> > > > gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this state

> > > is

> > > > called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part of the

> > > > formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma,

> > in

> > > living

> > > > being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on

> > its

> > > > placement and strength.

> > > >

> > > > You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar

> > > Chintamani and

> > > > others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya. Do not

> > > forget

> > > > that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well

> > versed

> > > in

> > > > scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am

> > trying

> > > to

> > > > tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a

> > > pleasure

> > > > to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of

> > scriptures

> > > and

> > > > jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a

> > wonderful

> > > > > Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

> > > > >

> > > > > Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

> > > > > planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign

> > Leo

> > > > > also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the

> > > dharma

> > > > > trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> > > > > Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> > > > > guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to

> > happiness

> > > and

> > > > > knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and

> > as

> > > > > significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the

> > ultimate

> > > > > Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is

> > aksharam,

> > > > > while the frail ego is bruised at every little

> > > affront...perceived

> > > > > or real!

> > > > >

> > > > > The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because

> > Sun

> > > is

> > > > > a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to

> > take/implement

> > > hard

> > > > > decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

> > > > > necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are

> > supposed

> > > to

> > > > > be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu

> > is

> > > said

> > > > > to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> > > > > Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> > > > > celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that

> > this

> > > > > point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

> > > > > again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and

> > king

> > > of

> > > > > planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth

> > and

> > > > > differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps

> > ego

> > > > > too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he

> > is

> > > > > more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for

> > ego.

> > > > > Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends

> > to

> > > > > obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people

> > > talk

> > > > > of punctured egos!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> > > > > opportunity to learn from you:--))

> > > > >

> > > > > Waiting for your corrections,

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

> > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about

> > Sun

> > > the

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

> > > > > Krura,

> > > > > > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi".

> > If

> > > > > you mark

> > > > > > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able

> > to

> > > take

> > > > > hard

> > > > > > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much

> > pleased

> > > with

> > > > > those

> > > > > > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has

> > > Bhaats

> > > > > in

> > > > > > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason

> > we

> > > are

> > > > > born

> > > > > > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates

> > > illusion

> > > > > to

> > > > > > others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

> > > > > connected

> > > > > > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry

> > if I

> > > > > gave

> > > > > > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that

> > he

> > > is a

> > > > > > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling

> > the

> > > > > the

> > > > > > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> > > > > Universe as

> > > > > > do all the Puranas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is

> > > something

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is

> > > said

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He

> > > represents

> > > > > pure

> > > > > > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents

> > ego.

> > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of

> > > oneself,

> > > > > > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > > > > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu

> > > Astrology"

> > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of

> > > thoughts

> > > > > > > as "me". It

> > > > > > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

> > > > > wherein

> > > > > > > the ego

> > > > > > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its

> > > identification

> > > > > > > with one's

> > > > > > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > > > > > > is the separative self.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego

> > when

> > > one

> > > > > > > feels

> > > > > > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant

> > > manner.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

> > > > > wherein

> > > > > > > one feels

> > > > > > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to

> > serve

> > > him.

> > > > > > > Extreme

> > > > > > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the

> > > separative

> > > > > > > form of ego

> > > > > > > > (of the first

> > > > > > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the

> > 2

> > > and 3

> > > > > > > forms

> > > > > > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > > > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents

> > the

> > > ego.

> > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its

> > > light;

> > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> > > > > effulgent

> > > > > > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > > > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> > > > > (Consciousness,

> > > > > > > seemingly

> > > > > > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate

> > > between

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > Jivatma

> > > > > > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to

> > > represent

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > Ego.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > > > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from

> > > one's

> > > > > > > mistake is

> > > > > > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna

> > and

> > > > > > > lagnesh. This

> > > > > > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma

> > > trikonas.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > 2nd factor

> > > > > > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

> > > > > reason).

> > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > > > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If

> > Tamas

> > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > > > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and

> > > lords

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self

> > help

> > > and

> > > > > > > analysis

> > > > > > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on

> > > and

> > > > > on.

> > > > > > > However, I

> > > > > > > > shall end it here.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery &

> > > Dharma

> > > > > > > Trikona

> > > > > > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to

> > > ego.

> > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > represents

> > > > > > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will

> > > be one

> > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like

> > Aries

> > > and

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > get the

> > > > > > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the

> > > combination

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

> > > > > native's

> > > > > > > chart?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by

> > > example &

> > > > > > > telling the

> > > > > > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think

> > > here

> > > > > again

> > > > > > > grammar

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can

> > tell

> > > the

> > > > > > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the

> > > lesson

> > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has

> > to

> > > be

> > > > > > > learnt. And

> > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

> > > > > fashioned

> > > > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But

> > still

> > > if

> > > > > > > elders do

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is

> > > self

> > > > > > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I

> > > must

> > > > > > > decline. At

> > > > > > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can

> > > and be

> > > > > > > away from

> > > > > > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji

> > > the

> > > > > > > Moderator of

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that

> > would

> > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

> > > > > previleges

> > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

> > > > > required

> > > > > > > in this

> > > > > > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by

> > > owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too

> > > technical

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do

> > > this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > > > > > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you

> > > wish to

> > > > > > > accomplish

> > > > > > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list

> > once

> > > in 4

> > > > > > > months but

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This

> > list

> > > > > > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should

> > become

> > > a

> > > > > > > Moderator.

> > > > > > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should

> > propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > have

> > > been

> > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

> > --

> > > ----

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> > been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > --

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ----------------------

> > --

> > > -

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 -

> > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 8/24/2006

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

September 1, 2006

Dear Pradeep,

You are right. However, even with sthira karakatwa Sun does represent

self-confidence (atmabal), besides the Atma at a higher level.

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> Thanks for the comments.I feel we are referring to

> charakarakatwas.Because as it very clear under general

> karakatwas(sthira?) Sun is for atma and Moon for mana.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I am glad you see my point. The observation about there being no Chara

> > karaka for Mana is astute.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > You have made a great statement by questioning ATMA-KARAKA as karaka

> > > for Soul rather than Karaka for Self.This is simply Brilliant.I

> > > request Shri K.N.Raoji to make a note of this and give his valauable

> > > opinion.There is no chara Karaka for Mana,then why for soul?.Thus i

> > > feel it is the joining of Self and Amatya that is giving a Rajayoga.

> > >

> > > Also it will solve all the doubts revolving around SWAMSHA.Shri

> > > Sanjay Rath once asked my opinion about Swamsha.I feel,if memory

> > > serves right,i said, it can either mean the own amsha of a planet or

> > > it can mean the amsha of Lagna. As Swa means Own.If Atma karaka is

> > > self then Swamsha is clear.

> > > Karakamsha and Swamsha results are the same in Upadesha Sutras and

> > > your opinion is going to open a totally new angle.

> > > Thanks

> > > Pardeep

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > I do not think sage Parashara was talking about strength when he

> > > > called Surya and Chandra as Satwik. He was discussing the gunas of

> > > > all the planets in shloka 22, whereas he talked about satwa of

> > > Kuja

> > > > while commenting on planetary governances in shlokas 12-13 of

> > > BPHS.

> > > > The contexts are totally different and the satwa of kuja is

> > > > definitely not the satwa of Sun, Moon and Jupiter.

> > > >

> > > > Parashara described Sun as "sarvaatma cha divaanathaH" in shloka

> > > 12

> > > > of BPHS, dealing with planetary governances, and not in relation

> > > to

> > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > >

> > > > Even as the sthira Atma Karaka, Sun represents the most evolved

> > > > state of consciousness. Can such a state accommodate Ego? I am

> > > > sorry, but I can not find a reference in BPHS about Sun

> > > representing

> > > > Ego. Could you please point it out to me?

> > > >

> > > > There's no dispute about Sun being "krura"...as a king needs to be

> > > > occasionally in order to discharge his duty. Even Sagittarius is

> > > > described as "a battleground" and a kshatriya sign, despite being

> > > > owned by a brahmin. Light is always considered cruel by Darkness.

> > > > Lord Krishna was considered cruel because He instigated the

> > > > Kurukshetra war. Lord Nrisimha is considered cruel because of the

> > > > way in which He killed Hiranya kashyapa. The cruelty was created &

> > > > deserved by the wishes and acts of the opponents. I am sure Rahu

> > > > thought Sun as very cruel too when he was caught masquerading.

> > > >

> > > > Being a King means one vested with absolute authority, power,

> > > > responsibility for maintenance of order and sustenance. I am sure

> > > > when Parashara used to term "king" he used it to convey the above

> > > > and his model was more Lord Vishnu ("vaishnavomsaH parassooryaH")

> > > > than some kings who were synonyms for ego. I am sure that's why he

> > > > chose Sun as representative of Sri Rama, the most humble of the

> > > > dasavataras. Sri Rama was unflinching in execution of his duty,

> > > > which perhaps bordered on cruelty on certain occasions, but He's

> > > > revered as Purushottama, and I don't think "ego" was one of His

> > > > problems:--)) Infact, most of the spiritual giants like Rama,

> > > > Krishna, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Shankaracharya, Aurobindo,

> > > > Vivekananda (to quote only a few)etc have Sun in great strength in

> > > > their charts!!

> > > >

> > > > Sun represents a state of being/knowledge, which in itself does

> > > not

> > > > imply ahamkaara. It's "thinking" about that state of being and

> > > > acting accordingly that leads to ahamkara and "thought" is always

> > > > the forte of vayu tattwa!!

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > > but does the word "krura" encompass the attribute of ego?

> > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > >

> > > > > I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little

> > > ones.

> > > > I am

> > > > > sure so did you and your family.

> > > > >

> > > > > You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the sage

> > > > and

> > > > > Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the

> > > > nature of

> > > > > Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura,

> > > > certainly not

> > > > > some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya

> > > is

> > > > to

> > > > > fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as

> > > > Brahmin

> > > > > and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser. Now the

> > > > reason

> > > > > for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of

> > > Sanskrit

> > > > > language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in

> > > perhaps

> > > > that

> > > > > respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we

> > > > know that

> > > > > Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice

> > > the

> > > > same

> > > > > confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a

> > > beginner

> > > > is

> > > > > confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things that I

> > > > > commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of

> > > Vishnu

> > > > but

> > > > > that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise

> > > there

> > > > would

> > > > > not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were written.

> > > I

> > > > would

> > > > > not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that many of

> > > > Kings

> > > > > of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard decision that

> > > > hurt

> > > > > even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing

> > > > justice,

> > > > > though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished

> > > > were not

> > > > > guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to

> > > > appear to

> > > > > be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak

> > > depends

> > > > on how

> > > > > the event is viewed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun

> > > does

> > > > > represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we

> > > also

> > > > know

> > > > > him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level.

> > > > Therefore

> > > > > the fact that planets in different context have different

> > > > behavioral

> > > > > traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma

> > > > karaka

> > > > > (karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari script of

> > > > BPHS you

> > > > > will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara

> > > > karakas,

> > > > > though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my mind,

> > > > is

> > > > > explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes

> > > under

> > > > > control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs

> > > when

> > > > an

> > > > > Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully

> > > > described

> > > > > by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that

> > > it

> > > > will

> > > > > remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is born in a

> > > > body it

> > > > > gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this state

> > > > is

> > > > > called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part of the

> > > > > formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma,

> > > in

> > > > living

> > > > > being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on

> > > its

> > > > > placement and strength.

> > > > >

> > > > > You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar

> > > > Chintamani and

> > > > > others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya. Do not

> > > > forget

> > > > > that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well

> > > versed

> > > > in

> > > > > scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am

> > > trying

> > > > to

> > > > > tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a

> > > > pleasure

> > > > > to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of

> > > scriptures

> > > > and

> > > > > jyotish.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a

> > > wonderful

> > > > > > Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

> > > > > > planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign

> > > Leo

> > > > > > also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the

> > > > dharma

> > > > > > trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> > > > > > Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> > > > > > guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to

> > > happiness

> > > > and

> > > > > > knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and

> > > as

> > > > > > significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the

> > > ultimate

> > > > > > Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is

> > > aksharam,

> > > > > > while the frail ego is bruised at every little

> > > > affront...perceived

> > > > > > or real!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because

> > > Sun

> > > > is

> > > > > > a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to

> > > take/implement

> > > > hard

> > > > > > decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

> > > > > > necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are

> > > supposed

> > > > to

> > > > > > be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu

> > > is

> > > > said

> > > > > > to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> > > > > > Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> > > > > > celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that

> > > this

> > > > > > point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

> > > > > > again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and

> > > king

> > > > of

> > > > > > planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth

> > > and

> > > > > > differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps

> > > ego

> > > > > > too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he

> > > is

> > > > > > more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for

> > > ego.

> > > > > > Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends

> > > to

> > > > > > obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people

> > > > talk

> > > > > > of punctured egos!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> > > > > > opportunity to learn from you:--))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Waiting for your corrections,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

> > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about

> > > Sun

> > > > the

> > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

> > > > > > Krura,

> > > > > > > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi".

> > > If

> > > > > > you mark

> > > > > > > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able

> > > to

> > > > take

> > > > > > hard

> > > > > > > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much

> > > pleased

> > > > with

> > > > > > those

> > > > > > > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has

> > > > Bhaats

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason

> > > we

> > > > are

> > > > > > born

> > > > > > > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates

> > > > illusion

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

> > > > > > connected

> > > > > > > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry

> > > if I

> > > > > > gave

> > > > > > > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that

> > > he

> > > > is a

> > > > > > > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling

> > > the

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> > > > > > Universe as

> > > > > > > do all the Puranas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is

> > > > something

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is

> > > > said

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He

> > > > represents

> > > > > > pure

> > > > > > > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents

> > > ego.

> > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of

> > > > oneself,

> > > > > > > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > > > > > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu

> > > > Astrology"

> > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of

> > > > thoughts

> > > > > > > > as "me". It

> > > > > > > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

> > > > > > wherein

> > > > > > > > the ego

> > > > > > > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its

> > > > identification

> > > > > > > > with one's

> > > > > > > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > > > > > > > is the separative self.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego

> > > when

> > > > one

> > > > > > > > feels

> > > > > > > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant

> > > > manner.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

> > > > > > wherein

> > > > > > > > one feels

> > > > > > > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to

> > > serve

> > > > him.

> > > > > > > > Extreme

> > > > > > > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the

> > > > separative

> > > > > > > > form of ego

> > > > > > > > > (of the first

> > > > > > > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the

> > > 2

> > > > and 3

> > > > > > > > forms

> > > > > > > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > > > > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents

> > > the

> > > > ego.

> > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its

> > > > light;

> > > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> > > > > > effulgent

> > > > > > > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > > > > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> > > > > > (Consciousness,

> > > > > > > > seemingly

> > > > > > > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate

> > > > between

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Jivatma

> > > > > > > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to

> > > > represent

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Ego.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > > > > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from

> > > > one's

> > > > > > > > mistake is

> > > > > > > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna

> > > and

> > > > > > > > lagnesh. This

> > > > > > > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma

> > > > trikonas.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > 2nd factor

> > > > > > > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

> > > > > > reason).

> > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > > > > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If

> > > Tamas

> > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > > > > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and

> > > > lords

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self

> > > help

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > analysis

> > > > > > > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on

> > > > and

> > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > However, I

> > > > > > > > > shall end it here.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery &

> > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > Trikona

> > > > > > > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to

> > > > ego.

> > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > represents

> > > > > > > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will

> > > > be one

> > > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like

> > > Aries

> > > > and

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > get the

> > > > > > > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the

> > > > combination

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

> > > > > > native's

> > > > > > > > chart?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by

> > > > example &

> > > > > > > > telling the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think

> > > > here

> > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > grammar

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can

> > > tell

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the

> > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has

> > > to

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > learnt. And

> > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

> > > > > > fashioned

> > > > > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But

> > > still

> > > > if

> > > > > > > > elders do

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is

> > > > self

> > > > > > > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I

> > > > must

> > > > > > > > decline. At

> > > > > > > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can

> > > > and be

> > > > > > > > away from

> > > > > > > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > Moderator of

> > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that

> > > would

> > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

> > > > > > previleges

> > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

> > > > > > required

> > > > > > > > in this

> > > > > > > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by

> > > > owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too

> > > > technical

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do

> > > > this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > > > > > > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you

> > > > wish to

> > > > > > > > accomplish

> > > > > > > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > > > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list

> > > once

> > > > in 4

> > > > > > > > months but

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This

> > > list

> > > > > > > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should

> > > become

> > > > a

> > > > > > > > Moderator.

> > > > > > > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should

> > > propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > > have

> > > > been

> > > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

> > > --

> > > > ----

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> > > been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > > --

> > > > ----

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ----------------------

> > > --

> > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 -

> > > > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 8/24/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

September 2, 2006

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Yes i can understand what you are saying.I have personal experiences

about self-pride,(non bending) a nature of strong exalted Sun.

Respect

Pradeep

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

> You are right. However, even with sthira karakatwa Sun does represent

> self-confidence (atmabal), besides the Atma at a higher level.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > Thanks for the comments.I feel we are referring to

> > charakarakatwas.Because as it very clear under general

> > karakatwas(sthira?) Sun is for atma and Moon for mana.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > I am glad you see my point. The observation about there being no

Chara

> > > karaka for Mana is astute.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >

> > > > You have made a great statement by questioning ATMA-KARAKA as

karaka

> > > > for Soul rather than Karaka for Self.This is simply Brilliant.I

> > > > request Shri K.N.Raoji to make a note of this and give his

valauable

> > > > opinion.There is no chara Karaka for Mana,then why for

soul?.Thus i

> > > > feel it is the joining of Self and Amatya that is giving a

Rajayoga.

> > > >

> > > > Also it will solve all the doubts revolving around SWAMSHA.Shri

> > > > Sanjay Rath once asked my opinion about Swamsha.I feel,if memory

> > > > serves right,i said, it can either mean the own amsha of a

planet or

> > > > it can mean the amsha of Lagna. As Swa means Own.If Atma karaka is

> > > > self then Swamsha is clear.

> > > > Karakamsha and Swamsha results are the same in Upadesha Sutras and

> > > > your opinion is going to open a totally new angle.

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pardeep

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I do not think sage Parashara was talking about strength when he

> > > > > called Surya and Chandra as Satwik. He was discussing the

gunas of

> > > > > all the planets in shloka 22, whereas he talked about satwa of

> > > > Kuja

> > > > > while commenting on planetary governances in shlokas 12-13 of

> > > > BPHS.

> > > > > The contexts are totally different and the satwa of kuja is

> > > > > definitely not the satwa of Sun, Moon and Jupiter.

> > > > >

> > > > > Parashara described Sun as "sarvaatma cha divaanathaH" in shloka

> > > > 12

> > > > > of BPHS, dealing with planetary governances, and not in relation

> > > > to

> > > > > Atmakaraka.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even as the sthira Atma Karaka, Sun represents the most evolved

> > > > > state of consciousness. Can such a state accommodate Ego? I am

> > > > > sorry, but I can not find a reference in BPHS about Sun

> > > > representing

> > > > > Ego. Could you please point it out to me?

> > > > >

> > > > > There's no dispute about Sun being "krura"...as a king needs

to be

> > > > > occasionally in order to discharge his duty. Even Sagittarius is

> > > > > described as "a battleground" and a kshatriya sign, despite

being

> > > > > owned by a brahmin. Light is always considered cruel by

Darkness.

> > > > > Lord Krishna was considered cruel because He instigated the

> > > > > Kurukshetra war. Lord Nrisimha is considered cruel because

of the

> > > > > way in which He killed Hiranya kashyapa. The cruelty was

created &

> > > > > deserved by the wishes and acts of the opponents. I am sure Rahu

> > > > > thought Sun as very cruel too when he was caught masquerading.

> > > > >

> > > > > Being a King means one vested with absolute authority, power,

> > > > > responsibility for maintenance of order and sustenance. I am

sure

> > > > > when Parashara used to term "king" he used it to convey the

above

> > > > > and his model was more Lord Vishnu ("vaishnavomsaH

parassooryaH")

> > > > > than some kings who were synonyms for ego. I am sure that's

why he

> > > > > chose Sun as representative of Sri Rama, the most humble of the

> > > > > dasavataras. Sri Rama was unflinching in execution of his duty,

> > > > > which perhaps bordered on cruelty on certain occasions, but He's

> > > > > revered as Purushottama, and I don't think "ego" was one of His

> > > > > problems:--)) Infact, most of the spiritual giants like Rama,

> > > > > Krishna, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Shankaracharya, Aurobindo,

> > > > > Vivekananda (to quote only a few)etc have Sun in great

strength in

> > > > > their charts!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Sun represents a state of being/knowledge, which in itself does

> > > > not

> > > > > imply ahamkaara. It's "thinking" about that state of being and

> > > > > acting accordingly that leads to ahamkara and "thought" is

always

> > > > > the forte of vayu tattwa!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > > but does the word "krura" encompass the attribute of ego?

> > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little

> > > > ones.

> > > > > I am

> > > > > > sure so did you and your family.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the

sage

> > > > > and

> > > > > > Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the

> > > > > nature of

> > > > > > Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura,

> > > > > certainly not

> > > > > > some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya

> > > > is

> > > > > to

> > > > > > fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as

> > > > > Brahmin

> > > > > > and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser.

Now the

> > > > > reason

> > > > > > for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of

> > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in

> > > > perhaps

> > > > > that

> > > > > > respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we

> > > > > know that

> > > > > > Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice

> > > > the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a

> > > > beginner

> > > > > is

> > > > > > confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things

that I

> > > > > > commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of

> > > > Vishnu

> > > > > but

> > > > > > that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise

> > > > there

> > > > > would

> > > > > > not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were

written.

> > > > I

> > > > > would

> > > > > > not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that

many of

> > > > > Kings

> > > > > > of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard

decision that

> > > > > hurt

> > > > > > even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing

> > > > > justice,

> > > > > > though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished

> > > > > were not

> > > > > > guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to

> > > > > appear to

> > > > > > be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak

> > > > depends

> > > > > on how

> > > > > > the event is viewed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun

> > > > does

> > > > > > represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we

> > > > also

> > > > > know

> > > > > > him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level.

> > > > > Therefore

> > > > > > the fact that planets in different context have different

> > > > > behavioral

> > > > > > traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma

> > > > > karaka

> > > > > > (karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari

script of

> > > > > BPHS you

> > > > > > will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara

> > > > > karakas,

> > > > > > though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my

mind,

> > > > > is

> > > > > > explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes

> > > > under

> > > > > > control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs

> > > > when

> > > > > an

> > > > > > Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully

> > > > > described

> > > > > > by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that

> > > > it

> > > > > will

> > > > > > remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is

born in a

> > > > > body it

> > > > > > gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this

state

> > > > > is

> > > > > > called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part

of the

> > > > > > formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma,

> > > > in

> > > > > living

> > > > > > being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on

> > > > its

> > > > > > placement and strength.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar

> > > > > Chintamani and

> > > > > > others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya.

Do not

> > > > > forget

> > > > > > that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well

> > > > versed

> > > > > in

> > > > > > scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am

> > > > trying

> > > > > to

> > > > > > tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a

> > > > > pleasure

> > > > > > to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of

> > > > scriptures

> > > > > and

> > > > > > jyotish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a

> > > > wonderful

> > > > > > > Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun

as a

> > > > > > > planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign

> > > > Leo

> > > > > > > also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the

> > > > > dharma

> > > > > > > trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> > > > > > > Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> > > > > > > guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to

> > > > happiness

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the

Soul, and

> > > > as

> > > > > > > significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the

> > > > ultimate

> > > > > > > Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is

> > > > aksharam,

> > > > > > > while the frail ego is bruised at every little

> > > > > affront...perceived

> > > > > > > or real!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because

> > > > Sun

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to

> > > > take/implement

> > > > > hard

> > > > > > > decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king

does not

> > > > > > > necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are

> > > > supposed

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu

> > > > is

> > > > > said

> > > > > > > to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> > > > > > > Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> > > > > > > celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that

> > > > this

> > > > > > > point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage

Parashara

> > > > > > > again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and

> > > > king

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > planets.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds

rebirth

> > > > and

> > > > > > > differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and

perhaps

> > > > ego

> > > > > > > too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya

houses, he

> > > > is

> > > > > > > more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for

> > > > ego.

> > > > > > > Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which

tends

> > > > to

> > > > > > > obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why

people

> > > > > talk

> > > > > > > of punctured egos!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> > > > > > > opportunity to learn from you:--))

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Waiting for your corrections,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

> > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about

> > > > Sun

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the

King and

> > > > > > > Krura,

> > > > > > > > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma

Saakshi".

> > > > If

> > > > > > > you mark

> > > > > > > > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able

> > > > to

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > hard

> > > > > > > > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much

> > > > pleased

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has

> > > > > Bhaats

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason

> > > > we

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > born

> > > > > > > > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates

> > > > > illusion

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > others not self. That is why you will find that when

rahu is

> > > > > > > connected

> > > > > > > > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry

> > > > if I

> > > > > > > gave

> > > > > > > > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that

> > > > he

> > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that

feeling

> > > > the

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> > > > > > > Universe as

> > > > > > > > do all the Puranas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is

> > > > > something

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma

Saakshi" is

> > > > > said

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He

> > > > > represents

> > > > > > > pure

> > > > > > > > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents

> > > > ego.

> > > > > > > Rahu

> > > > > > > > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of

> > > > > oneself,

> > > > > > > > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > > > > > > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu

> > > > > Astrology"

> > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of

> > > > > thoughts

> > > > > > > > > as "me". It

> > > > > > > > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form

of ego

> > > > > > > wherein

> > > > > > > > > the ego

> > > > > > > > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its

> > > > > identification

> > > > > > > > > with one's

> > > > > > > > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the

mind". This

> > > > > > > > > > is the separative self.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego

> > > > when

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > feels

> > > > > > > > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant

> > > > > manner.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form

of ego

> > > > > > > wherein

> > > > > > > > > one feels

> > > > > > > > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to

> > > > serve

> > > > > him.

> > > > > > > > > Extreme

> > > > > > > > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the

> > > > > separative

> > > > > > > > > form of ego

> > > > > > > > > > (of the first

> > > > > > > > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it

breaks the

> > > > 2

> > > > > and 3

> > > > > > > > > forms

> > > > > > > > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > > > > > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents

> > > > the

> > > > > ego.

> > > > > > > > > Surya

> > > > > > > > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident

in its

> > > > > light;

> > > > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> > > > > > > effulgent

> > > > > > > > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > > > > > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> > > > > > > (Consciousness,

> > > > > > > > > seemingly

> > > > > > > > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate

> > > > > between

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Jivatma

> > > > > > > > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to

> > > > > represent

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Ego.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > > > > > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from

> > > > > one's

> > > > > > > > > mistake is

> > > > > > > > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > lagnesh. This

> > > > > > > > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma

> > > > > trikonas.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > 2nd factor

> > > > > > > > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling

discrimination and

> > > > > > > reason).

> > > > > > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > > > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > > > > > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If

> > > > Tamas

> > > > > > > grahas

> > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > > > > > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of

Mercury and

> > > > > lords

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self

> > > > help

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > analysis

> > > > > > > > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like

going on

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > However, I

> > > > > > > > > > shall end it here.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present

Fiery &

> > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > > > > Trikona

> > > > > > > > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you

come to

> > > > > ego.

> > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > represents

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma

trikona will

> > > > > be one

> > > > > > > > > such

> > > > > > > > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like

> > > > Aries

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > get the

> > > > > > > > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in

humility.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the

> > > > > combination

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of

life in a

> > > > > > > native's

> > > > > > > > > chart?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by

> > > > > example &

> > > > > > > > > telling the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I

think

> > > > > here

> > > > > > > again

> > > > > > > > > grammar

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can

> > > > tell

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to

learn the

> > > > > lesson

> > > > > > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has

> > > > to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > learnt. And

> > > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has

an old

> > > > > > > fashioned

> > > > > > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But

> > > > still

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > elders do

> > > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless

one is

> > > > > self

> > > > > > > > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me

but I

> > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > decline. At

> > > > > > > > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what

I can

> > > > > and be

> > > > > > > > > away from

> > > > > > > > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make

Chandrashekharji

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Moderator of

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that

> > > > would

> > > > > > > serve,

> > > > > > > > > since

> > > > > > > > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is

moderated. The

> > > > > > > previleges

> > > > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and

photos (Not

> > > > > > > required

> > > > > > > > > in this

> > > > > > > > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by

> > > > > owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too

> > > > > technical

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody

can do

> > > > > this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing

members

> > > > > > > > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you

> > > > > wish to

> > > > > > > > > accomplish

> > > > > > > > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > > > > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list

> > > > once

> > > > > in 4

> > > > > > > > > months but

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This

> > > > list

> > > > > > > > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should

> > > > become

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > Moderator.

> > > > > > > > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should

> > > > propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > > > have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

------------

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming

message.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> > > > been

> > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

have been

> > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

----------------

> > > > --

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

----------------------

> > > > --

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

268.11.6/427 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 8/24/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

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