Guest guest Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 ||Om Datta Guru|| Dear Chandrashekharji & List Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but too much reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from lists, I realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am trying to unlearn them Chandrashekarji wrote: I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do not know where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. will you please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius rising and I do not remember anybody calling him racist. [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to ask him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. If he has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the test of time v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what use is it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is coded as many verses are coded v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology in print v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas v Did the sages know it all? v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory shlokas in books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important shloka on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in sanskrit) written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here and learnt. Regards, Sunil John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Dear Sunil 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with Pramanas,and then application. 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar in any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn the alphabets. 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming planets are not done. 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The one's built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests of time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the name of Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of our own students. A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that have crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the questions asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain the fundamentals. ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya or self learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last 1/4th will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing today is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and don't even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called brain. Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like Jyotisha/Neethi Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help of Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha Yajna.The one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the wrath of dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during learning). You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya that sits within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble opinion would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is being said. Thanks Pradeep , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but too much > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from lists, I > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am trying to > unlearn them > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do not know > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. will you > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius rising and > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to ask > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. If he > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the test of > time > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what use is > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is coded as > many verses are coded > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology in > print > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > v Did the sages know it all? > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory shlokas in > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important shloka > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in sanskrit) > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here and > learnt. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Dear Sunil, I do not understand you. On the one hand you imply that the Sages did not know all and on the other you think it is foolish to ask Rao sahib once he has made some radical statement. I am not sure Rao sahib himself would agree that the sages did not know anything and that he himself is the only source of all astrological knowledge and therefore beyond questioning. I am sure he would respond to any reasonable and sincere query. I have too much respect for him to think otherwise. Chandrashekhar. suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but too much > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from lists, I > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am trying to > unlearn them > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do not know > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. will you > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius rising and > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to ask > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. If he > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the test of > time > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what use is > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is coded as > many verses are coded > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology in > print > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > v Did the sages know it all? > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory shlokas in > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important shloka > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in sanskrit) > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here and > learnt. > > Regards, > > Sunil John > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 ||Om Datta Guru|| Dear Pradeep I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made me understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I didn't get time to read all of the mail. U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would beleive what u wrote since I know of what u are talking about. Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books next to oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when proven is not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" Regards, Sunil John , "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Sunil > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > Pramanas,and then application. > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar in > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn the > alphabets. > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming planets > are not done. > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The one's > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests of > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the name of > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of our own > students. > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that have > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the questions > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain the > fundamentals. > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya or self > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last 1/4th > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing today > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and don't > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called brain. > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like Jyotisha/Neethi > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help of > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha Yajna.The > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the wrath of > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > learning). > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya that sits > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble opinion > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is being > said. > > Thanks > Pradeep > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but too > much > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from > lists, I > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am > trying to > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do not > know > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. will > you > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius > rising and > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to > ask > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. > If he > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the > test of > > time > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > use is > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > coded as > > many verses are coded > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > in > > print > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > shlokas in > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > shloka > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in sanskrit) > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here and > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Dear Sunil Well said.May be you had my own mail to Bharat ji in mind.2-3 sentences.Context was different and i have explained it to Bharat ji. Sunil if you are proving something- i assure you my support.Keeping 20 books or 200 books does make anyone a scholar.What you understand is important.Everyone reads BPHS.We should not read info into(but out of) text books as shri FinnWandahl (miss him) used to say. Thanks Pradeep , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > Dear Pradeep > > I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made me > understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I didn't > get time to read all of the mail. > > > > U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would beleive what u > wrote since I know of what u are talking about. > > > > Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail > > "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books next to > oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when proven is > not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil John > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > > Pramanas,and then application. > > > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar in > > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn the > > alphabets. > > > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming planets > > are not done. > > > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The one's > > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests of > > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the name of > > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of our own > > students. > > > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that have > > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the questions > > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain the > > fundamentals. > > > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya or self > > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last 1/4th > > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing today > > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and don't > > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called brain. > > > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like Jyotisha/Neethi > > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help of > > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha Yajna.The > > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the wrath of > > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > > learning). > > > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya that sits > > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble opinion > > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is being > > said. > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but too > > much > > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from > > lists, I > > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am > > trying to > > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do not > > know > > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. will > > you > > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius > > rising and > > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to > > ask > > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. > > If he > > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the > > test of > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > > use is > > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > > coded as > > > many verses are coded > > > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > > in > > > print > > > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > > shlokas in > > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > > shloka > > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in sanskrit) > > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here and > > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 please read does not make any one a scholar:-) , "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Sunil > > Well said.May be you had my own mail to Bharat ji in mind.2-3 > sentences.Context was different and i have explained it to Bharat ji. > > Sunil if you are proving something- i assure you my support.Keeping 20 > books or 200 books does make anyone a scholar.What you understand is > important.Everyone reads BPHS.We should not read info into(but out of) > text books as shri FinnWandahl (miss him) used to say. > > Thanks > Pradeep > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > <suniljohn_2002@> wrote: > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made me > > understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I didn't > > get time to read all of the mail. > > > > > > > > U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would beleive what u > > wrote since I know of what u are talking about. > > > > > > > > Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail > > > > "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books next to > > oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when proven is > > not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > > > Pramanas,and then application. > > > > > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar in > > > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn the > > > alphabets. > > > > > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > > > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming planets > > > are not done. > > > > > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The one's > > > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests of > > > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the name of > > > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of our own > > > students. > > > > > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > > > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > > > > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that have > > > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the questions > > > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain the > > > fundamentals. > > > > > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > > > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > > > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya or self > > > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last 1/4th > > > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing today > > > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and don't > > > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called brain. > > > > > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like Jyotisha/Neethi > > > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help of > > > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha Yajna.The > > > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the wrath of > > > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > > > learning). > > > > > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya that sits > > > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble opinion > > > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is being > > > said. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but too > > > much > > > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from > > > lists, I > > > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am > > > trying to > > > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do not > > > know > > > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. will > > > you > > > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius > > > rising and > > > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to > > > ask > > > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. > > > If he > > > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > > > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the > > > test of > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > > > use is > > > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > > > coded as > > > > many verses are coded > > > > > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > > > in > > > > print > > > > > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > > > shlokas in > > > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > > > shloka > > > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in sanskrit) > > > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here and > > > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 ||Om Datta Guru|| Dear Pradeep, My reply below as [sunil]: , "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Sunil > > Well said.May be you had my own mail to Bharat ji in mind.2-3 > sentences.Context was different and i have explained it to Bharat ji. [sunil]: I do not read mails of other threads due to shortage of time though I did read the one u sent to Bharat, but its my phobia to read long mails (5L & 8L in 12H) but it wasn't directed at that context. > Sunil if you are proving something- i assure you my support.Keeping 20> books or 200 books does make anyone a scholar.What you understand is > important.Everyone reads BPHS.We should not read info into(but out of)> text books as shri FinnWandahl (miss him) used to say. [sunil]: Isn't this exactly what I have been saying to read into the books and for that a certain capability is needed but some wise men do not agree with it, but I still respect their opinions. I believe in Testing and which I have posted many charts on Sagi lagna and also Nations, but it seems Testing practically is out of fashion. What I do not like is acting a Preacher when one is not as it weakens the thinking of students & the humility to accept mistakes or open mindedness. Finn is in a different league altogether. Regards SJ > Thanks > Pradeep > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made me > > understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I didn't > > get time to read all of the mail. > > > > > > > > U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would beleive what u > > wrote since I know of what u are talking about. > > > > > > > > Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail > > > > "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books next to > > oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when proven is > > not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > > > Pramanas,and then application. > > > > > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar in > > > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn the > > > alphabets. > > > > > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > > > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming planets > > > are not done. > > > > > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The one's > > > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests of > > > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the name of > > > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of our own > > > students. > > > > > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > > > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > > > > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that have > > > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the questions > > > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain the > > > fundamentals. > > > > > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > > > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > > > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya or self > > > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last 1/4th > > > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing today > > > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and don't > > > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called brain. > > > > > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like Jyotisha/Neethi > > > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help of > > > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha Yajna.The > > > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the wrath of > > > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > > > learning). > > > > > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya that sits > > > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble opinion > > > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is being > > > said. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but too > > > much > > > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from > > > lists, I > > > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am > > > trying to > > > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do not > > > know > > > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. will > > > you > > > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius > > > rising and > > > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to > > > ask > > > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. > > > If he > > > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > > > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the > > > test of > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > > > use is > > > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > > > coded as > > > > many verses are coded > > > > > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > > > in > > > > print > > > > > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > > > shlokas in > > > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > > > shloka > > > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in sanskrit) > > > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here and > > > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Dear Sunil We should not read info into(but out > of)> text books as shri FinnWandahl (miss him) used to say. > [sunil]: Isn't this exactly what I have been saying to read into the > books and for that a certain capability is needed but some wise men do > not agree with it, but I still respect their opinions. Shri Finn said one should NOT read info INTOinto the text books.Especially in the case of classical pramanas one should not corrupt the thinkings of sages. I believe in > Testing and which I have posted many charts on Sagi lagna and also > Nations, but it seems Testing practically is out of fashion. > Testing is fine.In my opinion testing should help us to understand what the sage is exactly mentioning. For example K.N.Raoji told me in Laghu Parashari/Madhya parashari are time tested principles.Classical principles will always withstand tests of time.Regarding charts i was reluctant due to authenticity of info.In the case of Billy/Kid,US chart etc case was no different.Thus when i get time to verify those ,i can attempt. > > > What I do not like is acting a Preacher when one is not as it weakens> the thinking of students & the humility to accept mistakes or open > mindedness. > This is a valid observation.Hope evryone will take a note of this suggestion. > > > Finn is in a different league altogether. > > Yes i like him for his outsopkenness,and sound understanding of astrology basics.If basics are not proper ,nothing is proper. > > Regards > > SJ > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made me > > > understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I > didn't > > > get time to read all of the mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would beleive > what u > > > wrote since I know of what u are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail > > > > > > "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books next > to > > > oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when > proven is > > > not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > > > > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > > > > Pramanas,and then application. > > > > > > > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar in > > > > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn the > > > > alphabets. > > > > > > > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > > > > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming > planets > > > > are not done. > > > > > > > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The one's > > > > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests of > > > > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the name > of > > > > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of our > own > > > > students. > > > > > > > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > > > > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > > > > > > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that have > > > > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the > questions > > > > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain the > > > > fundamentals. > > > > > > > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > > > > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > > > > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya or > self > > > > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last 1/4th > > > > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing today > > > > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and > don't > > > > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called > brain. > > > > > > > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like > Jyotisha/Neethi > > > > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help of > > > > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha > Yajna.The > > > > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the wrath > of > > > > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > > > > learning). > > > > > > > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya that > sits > > > > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble > opinion > > > > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is > being > > > > said. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but > too > > > > much > > > > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from > > > > lists, I > > > > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am > > > > trying to > > > > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do > not > > > > know > > > > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. > will > > > > you > > > > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius > > > > rising and > > > > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to > > > > ask > > > > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. > > > > If he > > > > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > > > > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the > > > > test of > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > > > > use is > > > > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > > > > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > > > > coded as > > > > > many verses are coded > > > > > > > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > > > > in > > > > > print > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > > > > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > > > > shlokas in > > > > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > > > > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > > > > shloka > > > > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in > sanskrit) > > > > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here > and > > > > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Pradeep Busy now, commensensically a typo but that into or out of text books I meant what was obvious, u can re-read my other mails if u wish where I have mentioned spiritual elevation to understand deeper meanings (for myself) My english is not that great, but Finn would understand what I am talking about, if u wish u may cross with him re what I might have meant, we are known to each other. If we take Billy the Kid then Astro data bank is wrong, and Aug 2nd (posted by Chandrashekkhar) or something should be independence day for US, whereas Rao says 4th July is accepted by all scholars I have posted enough observations which are logical and senior members of this list have written to me privately on it, anyways most imp it takes 15 -20 mins to construct 10 charts & check if it is Sg lagna, many have already done it. i guess they were not busy doing word play but honestly trying to understand this science I am truly sorry I need to wind up these discussions by tom & have seen thousands of endless discussions on list which lead no where and only tries to exhibit word play SJ , "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Sunil > > We should not read info into(but out > of)> text books as shri > FinnWandahl (miss him) used to say. > > [sunil]: Isn't this exactly what I have been saying to read into the > > books and for that a certain capability is needed but some wise men do > > not agree with it, but I still respect their opinions. > > Shri Finn said one should NOT read info INTOinto the text > books.Especially in the case of classical pramanas one should not > corrupt the thinkings of sages. > > I believe in > Testing and which I have posted many charts on Sagi > lagna and also > Nations, but it seems Testing practically is out of > fashion. > > > Testing is fine.In my opinion testing should help us to understand > what the sage is exactly mentioning. For example K.N.Raoji told me in > Laghu Parashari/Madhya parashari are time tested principles.Classical > principles will always withstand tests of time.Regarding charts i was > reluctant due to authenticity of info.In the case of Billy/Kid,US > chart etc case was no different.Thus when i get time to verify those > ,i can attempt. > > > > > > > What I do not like is acting a Preacher when one is not as it > weakens> the thinking of students & the humility to accept mistakes or > open > mindedness. > > > > This is a valid observation.Hope evryone will take a note of this > suggestion. > > > > > > Finn is in a different league altogether. > > > > > Yes i like him for his outsopkenness,and sound understanding of > astrology basics.If basics are not proper ,nothing is proper. > > > > Regards > > > > SJ > > > > > > > Thanks > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made me > > > > understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I > > didn't > > > > get time to read all of the mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would beleive > > what u > > > > wrote since I know of what u are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail > > > > > > > > "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books next > > to > > > > oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when > > proven is > > > > not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > > > > > > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > > > > > Pramanas,and then application. > > > > > > > > > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar in > > > > > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn the > > > > > alphabets. > > > > > > > > > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > > > > > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming > > planets > > > > > are not done. > > > > > > > > > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The one's > > > > > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests of > > > > > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the name > > of > > > > > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of our > > own > > > > > students. > > > > > > > > > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > > > > > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > > > > > > > > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that have > > > > > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the > > questions > > > > > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain the > > > > > fundamentals. > > > > > > > > > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > > > > > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > > > > > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya or > > self > > > > > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last 1/4th > > > > > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing today > > > > > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and > > don't > > > > > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called > > brain. > > > > > > > > > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like > > Jyotisha/Neethi > > > > > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help of > > > > > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha > > Yajna.The > > > > > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the wrath > > of > > > > > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > > > > > learning). > > > > > > > > > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya that > > sits > > > > > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble > > opinion > > > > > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is > > being > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, but > > too > > > > > much > > > > > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology from > > > > > lists, I > > > > > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & am > > > > > trying to > > > > > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and do > > not > > > > > know > > > > > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. > > will > > > > > you > > > > > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was Sagittarius > > > > > rising and > > > > > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I foolish to > > > > > ask > > > > > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test it. > > > > > If he > > > > > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, racist, > > > > > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in the > > > > > test of > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > > > > > use is > > > > > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > > > > > > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > > > > > coded as > > > > > > many verses are coded > > > > > > > > > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > > > > > in > > > > > > print > > > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > > > > > > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > > > > > shlokas in > > > > > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > > > > > shloka > > > > > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in > > sanskrit) > > > > > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander here > > and > > > > > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Dear Sunil I can understand your feelings.But i do not know what are we trying to prove here?Sagittarians are Racists?:-)) I have already expressed that all rashis are equally important as they all are respective departments. We were discussing nature of Dhanu Rashi which is different from individuals commiting crimes due to multiple combinations/influences.This is true with any rashi.Problem was only with ''War Mongering'' which is an exxagerated extreme.Your thesis was based on opinion of a Tall figure like Raoji.And shri Manjunath's explanation made things easy.Thus i feel we can conclude safely in a Win-Win fashion. It was a good discussion and all the best. Pradeep , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > Pradeep > > Busy now, commensensically a typo but that into or out of text books I > meant what was obvious, u can re-read my other mails if u wish where I > have mentioned spiritual elevation to understand deeper meanings (for > myself) > > My english is not that great, but Finn would understand what I am > talking about, if u wish u may cross with him re what I might have > meant, we are known to each other. > > If we take Billy the Kid then Astro data bank is wrong, and Aug 2nd > (posted by Chandrashekkhar) or something should be independence day for > US, whereas Rao says 4th July is accepted by all scholars > > I have posted enough observations which are logical and senior members > of this list have written to me privately on it, anyways most imp it > takes 15 -20 mins to construct 10 charts & check if it is Sg lagna, many > have already done it. i guess they were not busy doing word play but > honestly trying to understand this science > > I am truly sorry I need to wind up these discussions by tom & have seen > thousands of endless discussions on list which lead no where and only > tries to exhibit word play > > > > SJ > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > We should not read info into(but out > of)> text books as shri > > FinnWandahl (miss him) used to say. > > > [sunil]: Isn't this exactly what I have been saying to read into the > > > books and for that a certain capability is needed but some wise men > do > > > not agree with it, but I still respect their opinions. > > > > Shri Finn said one should NOT read info INTOinto the text > > books.Especially in the case of classical pramanas one should not > > corrupt the thinkings of sages. > > > > I believe in > Testing and which I have posted many charts on Sagi > > lagna and also > Nations, but it seems Testing practically is out of > > fashion. > > > > > Testing is fine.In my opinion testing should help us to understand > > what the sage is exactly mentioning. For example K.N.Raoji told me in > > Laghu Parashari/Madhya parashari are time tested principles.Classical > > principles will always withstand tests of time.Regarding charts i was > > reluctant due to authenticity of info.In the case of Billy/Kid,US > > chart etc case was no different.Thus when i get time to verify those > > ,i can attempt. > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not like is acting a Preacher when one is not as it > > weakens> the thinking of students & the humility to accept mistakes or > > open > mindedness. > > > > > > > This is a valid observation.Hope evryone will take a note of this > > suggestion. > > > > > > > > > Finn is in a different league altogether. > > > > > > > > Yes i like him for his outsopkenness,and sound understanding of > > astrology basics.If basics are not proper ,nothing is proper. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > SJ > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made > me > > > > > understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I > > > didn't > > > > > get time to read all of the mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would > beleive > > > what u > > > > > wrote since I know of what u are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail > > > > > > > > > > "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books > next > > > to > > > > > oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when > > > proven is > > > > > not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > > > > > > Pramanas,and then application. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar > in > > > > > > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn > the > > > > > > alphabets. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > > > > > > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming > > > planets > > > > > > are not done. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The > one's > > > > > > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests > of > > > > > > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the > name > > > of > > > > > > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of > our > > > own > > > > > > students. > > > > > > > > > > > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > > > > > > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > > > > > > > > > > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that > have > > > > > > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the > > > questions > > > > > > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain > the > > > > > > fundamentals. > > > > > > > > > > > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > > > > > > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > > > > > > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya > or > > > self > > > > > > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last > 1/4th > > > > > > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing > today > > > > > > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and > > > don't > > > > > > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called > > > brain. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like > > > Jyotisha/Neethi > > > > > > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help > of > > > > > > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha > > > Yajna.The > > > > > > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the > wrath > > > of > > > > > > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > > > > > > learning). > > > > > > > > > > > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya > that > > > sits > > > > > > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble > > > opinion > > > > > > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is > > > being > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, > but > > > too > > > > > > much > > > > > > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology > from > > > > > > lists, I > > > > > > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & > am > > > > > > trying to > > > > > > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and > do > > > not > > > > > > know > > > > > > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. > > > will > > > > > > you > > > > > > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was > Sagittarius > > > > > > rising and > > > > > > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I > foolish to > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test > it. > > > > > > If he > > > > > > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, > racist, > > > > > > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in > the > > > > > > test of > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > > > > > > use is > > > > > > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > > > > > > coded as > > > > > > > many verses are coded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > > > > > > in > > > > > > > print > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > > > > > > shlokas in > > > > > > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > > > > > > shloka > > > > > > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in > > > sanskrit) > > > > > > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander > here > > > and > > > > > > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Pls re-read all the mails, infact no need to do that just see subject headings "Other Side of Sagi" & some previous mails before , "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Sunil > > I can understand your feelings.But i do not know what are we trying to > prove here?Sagittarians are Racists?:-)) > > I have already expressed that all rashis are equally important as they > all are respective departments. > > We were discussing nature of Dhanu Rashi which is different from > individuals commiting crimes due to multiple > combinations/influences.This is true with any rashi.Problem was only > with ''War Mongering'' which is an exxagerated extreme.Your thesis was > based on opinion of a Tall figure like Raoji.And shri Manjunath's > explanation made things easy.Thus i feel we can conclude safely in a > Win-Win fashion. > > It was a good discussion and all the best. > > Pradeep > > , "suniljohn_2002" > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > Busy now, commensensically a typo but that into or out of text books I > > meant what was obvious, u can re-read my other mails if u wish where I > > have mentioned spiritual elevation to understand deeper meanings (for > > myself) > > > > My english is not that great, but Finn would understand what I am > > talking about, if u wish u may cross with him re what I might have > > meant, we are known to each other. > > > > If we take Billy the Kid then Astro data bank is wrong, and Aug 2nd > > (posted by Chandrashekkhar) or something should be independence day for > > US, whereas Rao says 4th July is accepted by all scholars > > > > I have posted enough observations which are logical and senior members > > of this list have written to me privately on it, anyways most imp it > > takes 15 -20 mins to construct 10 charts & check if it is Sg lagna, many > > have already done it. i guess they were not busy doing word play but > > honestly trying to understand this science > > > > I am truly sorry I need to wind up these discussions by tom & have seen > > thousands of endless discussions on list which lead no where and only > > tries to exhibit word play > > > > > > > > SJ > > > > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > > > We should not read info into(but out > of)> text books as shri > > > FinnWandahl (miss him) used to say. > > > > [sunil]: Isn't this exactly what I have been saying to read into the > > > > books and for that a certain capability is needed but some wise men > > do > > > > not agree with it, but I still respect their opinions. > > > > > > Shri Finn said one should NOT read info INTOinto the text > > > books.Especially in the case of classical pramanas one should not > > > corrupt the thinkings of sages. > > > > > > I believe in > Testing and which I have posted many charts on Sagi > > > lagna and also > Nations, but it seems Testing practically is out of > > > fashion. > > > > > > > Testing is fine.In my opinion testing should help us to understand > > > what the sage is exactly mentioning. For example K.N.Raoji told me in > > > Laghu Parashari/Madhya parashari are time tested principles.Classical > > > principles will always withstand tests of time.Regarding charts i was > > > reluctant due to authenticity of info.In the case of Billy/Kid,US > > > chart etc case was no different.Thus when i get time to verify those > > > ,i can attempt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I do not like is acting a Preacher when one is not as it > > > weakens> the thinking of students & the humility to accept mistakes or > > > open > mindedness. > > > > > > > > > > This is a valid observation.Hope evryone will take a note of this > > > suggestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn is in a different league altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > Yes i like him for his outsopkenness,and sound understanding of > > > astrology basics.If basics are not proper ,nothing is proper. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > SJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > I like ur sermon but it was too long, 2-3 lines would have made > > me > > > > > > understand what u were saying properly & hence the other day I > > > > didn't > > > > > > get time to read all of the mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U need not have quoted a shloka, without it still I would > > beleive > > > > what u > > > > > > wrote since I know of what u are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe u forgot to write or I do not remember seeing in ur mail > > > > > > > > > > > > "Acting a scholar & Guru is easy, very easy by keeping 20 books > > next > > > > to > > > > > > oneself, but accepting ones shortcomings and failures esp when > > > > proven is > > > > > > not in the lineage of humility & Gurutatva" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > , "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)Village astrologers from Parampara is first taught with > > > > > > > Pramanas,and then application. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2)Theory is futile without application.But to become a scholar > > in > > > > > > > any language,we should also have time and patience, to learn > > the > > > > > > > alphabets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)Astrological verses are confusing,if Balaa-Bala Chinthanam > > > > > > > (evaluation of strengths) of the said planet or yoga forming > > > > planets > > > > > > > are not done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)The castles built with cards will collapse in a second.The > > one's > > > > > > > built over strong/sound foundations, will withstand the tests > > of > > > > > > > time.If whatever that is coming to our mind is taught in the > > name > > > > of > > > > > > > Astrology,one day we may have to bend our head, in front of > > our > > > > own > > > > > > > students. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A shloka in Brihatsamhita starting with '' Na Prathibandham > > > > > > > Gmayati .........Sa katham shastra vijneya'' means - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Daivajna should be able to filter out the corruptions that > > have > > > > > > > crept into Jyotisha.He should also abe able to answer the > > > > questions > > > > > > > asked by his students and should have the capactiy to explain > > the > > > > > > > fundamentals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ''Acharyal Padamaadathe padam shishya swamedhaya Padam sa > > > > > > > brahmachaaribhyo Padam kalakramena thu'' (Neethi Saaram). > > > > > > > Only 1/4th of Knowldege is got from Guru.1/4th is Swamedhaya > > or > > > > self > > > > > > > learning.1/4th out of discussions with co-students.The last > > 1/4th > > > > > > > will come through experience and time.But what we are seeing > > today > > > > > > > is, students feel Guru is supposed to teach me everything,and > > > > don't > > > > > > > even realize that ,they too have a GOD given instrument called > > > > brain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also in Kalaprakashika it is said - In subjects like > > > > Jyotisha/Neethi > > > > > > > Nyaya etc,the one who thinks properly and explains with help > > of > > > > > > > Shasthra Pramanas will attain Punya surpaasing, Ashwamedha > > > > Yajna.The > > > > > > > one who explains otherwise(intentionally) will attract the > > wrath > > > > of > > > > > > > dieties.(of course unintentionally we may make mistakes during > > > > > > > learning). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You and me have no difference as it is the same chaithanya > > that > > > > sits > > > > > > > within.Thus you may study this Shastra as you wish.My humble > > > > opinion > > > > > > > would be -Don't look at who is doing the talk- Look at what is > > > > being > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "suniljohn_2002" > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji & List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shlokas have their own significance & are most important, > > but > > > > too > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > reliance on it is damaging. Though I learnt my astrology > > from > > > > > > > lists, I > > > > > > > > realised the non productive attitude I inculcated from it & > > am > > > > > > > trying to > > > > > > > > unlearn them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekarji wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not find any reference of it being sign of racist and > > do > > > > not > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > where from your senior astrologer friend got that reference. > > > > will > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > please ask him for a quote? Swami Vivekananda was > > Sagittarius > > > > > > > rising and > > > > > > > > I do not remember anybody calling him racist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [sunil]: as I wrote earlier he didn't quote nor was I > > foolish to > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > him for a quote nor do I believe in it totally unless I test > > it. > > > > > > > If he > > > > > > > > has made a radical statement that Sagi can be fanatic, > > racist, > > > > > > > > fundamentalist, war mongering then its better to see it in > > the > > > > > > > test of > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v First and foremost even if we get a quote/shloka what > > > > > > > use is > > > > > > > > it who among us understands Sanskrit in totality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Even if we understood sanskrit what if the verse is > > > > > > > coded as > > > > > > > > many verses are coded > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Most imp do we really have all the shlokas of astrology > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > print > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages transfer all their knowledge into shlokas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Did the sages know it all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v If shlokas are quoted there are many contradictory > > > > > > > shlokas in > > > > > > > > books, what do we do with it or should we go by experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v Then are all shlokas found in india, one very important > > > > > > > shloka > > > > > > > > on describing retrogression is found in a German book (in > > > > sanskrit) > > > > > > > > written by a German/Greek who had travelled with Alexander > > here > > > > and > > > > > > > > learnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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