Guest guest Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 ||Om Datta Guru|| Dear Chandrashekharji Pls find the reply below, is an interesting read. I have underlined or changed color or made it bold to highlight few key things. Regards, Sunil John ___________ Sunil John [suniljohn10 ] Monday, August 28, 2006 12:39 PM james (AT) jameskelleher (DOT) com USA Chart/Sunil John: Mumbai Hi Sunil, Thanks for your email. Yes, the chart rectification was the result of a commission which allowed me to spend 3 months doing research. One thing that came out of the research was a note made by Thomas Jefferson in his personal writings, that the declaration had been signed, and the signing was finished in the evening of July 4,1776 and that the delagates "were home in time for dinner". This would place the event anywhere from the late afternoon to the early evening….from 4:pm - 8 pm. This narrows the possible times considerably. The rest is based on working with the chart and historical periods. I don't have the time (or the desire) to debate the accuracy of this rectification. The chart works well. It is noteworthy, however, that many other well-known Vedic astrologers are using this chart. David Frawley, Chakrapani Ullal and various others have all agreed on how well it works and have addopted it as the the right time. Regards, James Kelleher ||Om Datta Guru|| Dear James, Namaste Regards, Sunil John , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Sunil, > Please see Astro data bank site and you will find many more lagnas being > justified by different astrologers. As you said one can always justify > one or two events from any lagna. I have given the quotes on when > declaration of Independence was signed from one site on declaration of > Independence/ George Washington and another from a Thomas Jefferson > dedicated site. You will see that Sagittarius lagna may be too far > fetched. Again remember that one has to take LMT for 1776 times and > recession of equinox has to be deducted for a Vedic chart. i am not sure > whether that was done in chart drawn by Kellher. I think it was a Sayana > chart if I remember what I saw on Lois Rodden's site. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > > > > Chandrashekharji, > > > > I can be wrong here since I have only justified two events (which can be > > done from any lagna) & didn't want to post those personal notes on the > > list > > > > USA (Kelleher Chart) > > > > Natal Chart > > > > July 4, 1776 > > Time: 18:30:00 > > Time Zone: 5:00:00 (West of GMT) > > Place: 75 W 09' 51", 39 N 57' 08" > > Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA > > Altitude: 40.00 meters > > > > Lunar Yr-Mo: Durmukha - Ashadha > > Tithi: Krishna Chaturthi (Me) (28.44% left) > > Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su) > > Nakshatra: Satabhishak (Ra) (95.74% left) > > Yoga: Ayushman (Ke) (75.88% left) > > Karana: Balava (Mo) (56.87% left) > > Hora Lord: Mars (5 min sign: Le) > > Mahakala Hora: Jupiter (5 min sign: Ta) > > Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Venus) > > > > Sunrise: 4:41:57 > > Sunset: 19:27:09 > > Janma Ghatis: 34.5020 > > > > Ayanamsa: 20-44-00.34 > > Sidereal Time: 13:23:26 > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 - Release Date: 8/24/2006 > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Dear Sunil, I would not like to comment on what James says. But if I am not wrong did some one not say that Chakrapani uses some other lagna? Again in 1776 L.M.T was applicable and there does not seem to be any reason to use standard time in the calculations. I know that in rectified charts it may not matter, but this is something that appears to be odd. I do not think roads in U.S.A were so good that people could reach their home in time for dinner (8.00 p.m. as James says), by horse drawn carriage, had the declaration been signed by 18.30. But that is a very subjective type of judgement to pass. I am sure James must have taken into consideration the distances between all the 56 signatories' residence and the Pennsylvania state house. Again for your information I give something that I found on http://www.constitutionfacts.com/declaration/Decl_Signers.htm "All of the colonies were represented in Philadelphia to consider the delicate case for independence and to change the course of the war. In all, there were fifty-six representatives from the thirteen colonies. Fourteen represented the New England Colonies, twenty-one represented the Middle Colonies and twenty-one represented the Southern Colonies. The largest number (9) came from Pennsylvania. Most of the signers were American born although eight were foreign born. The ages of the signers ranged from 26 (Edward Rutledge) to 70 (Benjamin Franklin), but the majority of the signers were in their thirties or forties. More than half of the signers were lawyers and the others were planters, merchants and shippers. Together they mutually pledged "to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." They were mostly men of means who had much to lose if the war was lost. None of the signers died at the hands of the British, and one-third served as militia officers during the war. Four of the signers were taken captive during the war and nearly all of them were poorer at the end of the war than at the beginning. No matter what each of these men did after July 1776, the actual signing of the Declaration of Independence which began on August 2 ensured them instant immortality. The following gives a bit of information about each signer AFTER the signing of the Declaration of Independence." So much for signing of declaration of independence on July the 4th. So you can form your own opinion as I am sure will other members of the list. Chandrashekhar. suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > Dear Chandrashekharji > > Pls find the reply below, is an interesting read. I have underlined or > changed color or made it bold to highlight few key things. > > Regards, > > Sunil John > > ___________ > > Sunil John [suniljohn10 > <suniljohn10%40gmail.com>] > > Monday, August 28, 2006 12:39 PM > > james (AT) jameskelleher (DOT) com <james%40jameskelleher.com> > > USA Chart/Sunil John: Mumbai > > Hi Sunil, > > Thanks for your email. Yes, the chart rectification was the result of a > commission which allowed me to spend 3 months doing research. One thing > that came out of the research was a note made by Thomas Jefferson in his > personal writings, that the declaration had been signed, and the signing > was finished in the evening of July 4,1776 and that the delagates "were > home in time for dinner". This would place the event anywhere from the > late afternoon to the early evening....from 4:pm - 8 pm. This narrows > the possible times considerably. The rest is based on working with the > chart and historical periods. I don't have the time (or the desire) to > debate the accuracy of this rectification. The chart works well. It is > noteworthy, however, that many other well-known Vedic astrologers are > using this chart. David Frawley, Chakrapani Ullal and various others > have all agreed on how well it works and have addopted it as the the > right time. > > Regards, > > James Kelleher > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > Dear James, > > Namaste > > Regards, > > Sunil John > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil, > > Please see Astro data bank site and you will find many more lagnas > being > > justified by different astrologers. As you said one can always justify > > one or two events from any lagna. I have given the quotes on when > > declaration of Independence was signed from one site on declaration of > > Independence/ George Washington and another from a Thomas Jefferson > > dedicated site. You will see that Sagittarius lagna may be too far > > fetched. Again remember that one has to take LMT for 1776 times and > > recession of equinox has to be deducted for a Vedic chart. i am not > sure > > whether that was done in chart drawn by Kellher. I think it was a > Sayana > > chart if I remember what I saw on Lois Rodden's site. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekharji, > > > > > > I can be wrong here since I have only justified two events (which > can be > > > done from any lagna) & didn't want to post those personal notes on > the > > > list > > > > > > USA (Kelleher Chart) > > > > > > Natal Chart > > > > > > July 4, 1776 > > > Time: 18:30:00 > > > Time Zone: 5:00:00 (West of GMT) > > > Place: 75 W 09' 51", 39 N 57' 08" > > > Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA > > > Altitude: 40.00 meters > > > > > > Lunar Yr-Mo: Durmukha - Ashadha > > > Tithi: Krishna Chaturthi (Me) (28.44% left) > > > Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su) > > > Nakshatra: Satabhishak (Ra) (95.74% left) > > > Yoga: Ayushman (Ke) (75.88% left) > > > Karana: Balava (Mo) (56.87% left) > > > Hora Lord: Mars (5 min sign: Le) > > > Mahakala Hora: Jupiter (5 min sign: Ta) > > > Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Venus) > > > > > > Sunrise: 4:41:57 > > > Sunset: 19:27:09 > > > Janma Ghatis: 34.5020 > > > > > > Ayanamsa: 20-44-00.34 > > > Sidereal Time: 13:23:26 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 - Release Date: > 8/24/2006 > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 ||Om Datta Guru|| Dear Chandrashekharji, Well according to James , Chakrapani is using James chart & so is David Frawley. Well to me it doesn't truly matter who uses which lagna, I haven't thoroughly checked both the lagnas. When a person like KN Rao uses Leo lagna it doesn't matter since he is a SAGE, all lagnas will give him the same result. His Jyotish Nadi in the body has been activated is my own opinion based on moments when I saw his eyes had the what is called in spiritual circles "The Look". Also, I have no interest in Mundane astrology though I wanted to spend some time yesterday on using a particular method in the USA chart but then its time consuming n whats the use of posting it on lists, it only becomes self gratification. I read ur mail, u do have a point but am not sure of accepting it I am sure James > must have taken into consideration the distances between all the 56 > signatories' residence and the Pennsylvania state house. James's observation was on Thomas Jefferson's personal writings & his being on time for dinner, so maybe we can see the distance between his house and the state house and not all 56 signatories. Regards, Sunil John , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Sunil, > > I would not like to comment on what James says. But if I am not wrong > did some one not say that Chakrapani uses some other lagna? Again in > 1776 L.M.T was applicable and there does not seem to be any reason to > use standard time in the calculations. I know that in rectified charts > it may not matter, but this is something that appears to be odd. I do > not think roads in U.S.A were so good that people could reach their home > in time for dinner (8.00 p.m. as James says), by horse drawn carriage, > had the declaration been signed by 18.30. > But that is a very subjective type of judgement to pass. I am sure James > must have taken into consideration the distances between all the 56 > signatories' residence and the Pennsylvania state house. > > Again for your information I give something that I found on > http://www.constitutionfacts.com/declaration/Decl_Signers.htm > > "All of the colonies were represented in Philadelphia to consider the > delicate case for independence and to change the course of the war. In > all, there were fifty-six representatives from the thirteen colonies. > Fourteen represented the New England Colonies, twenty-one represented > the Middle Colonies and twenty-one represented the Southern Colonies. > The largest number (9) came from Pennsylvania. Most of the signers were > American born although eight were foreign born. The ages of the signers > ranged from 26 (Edward Rutledge) to 70 (Benjamin Franklin), but the > majority of the signers were in their thirties or forties. More than > half of the signers were lawyers and the others were planters, merchants > and shippers. Together they mutually pledged "to each other our Lives, > our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." They were mostly men of means who > had much to lose if the war was lost. None of the signers died at the > hands of the British, and one-third served as militia officers during > the war. Four of the signers were taken captive during the war and > nearly all of them were poorer at the end of the war than at the > beginning. No matter what each of these men did after July 1776, the > actual signing of the Declaration of Independence which began on August > 2 ensured them instant immortality. The following gives a bit of > information about each signer AFTER the signing of the Declaration of > Independence." > > > So much for signing of declaration of independence on July the 4th. So > you can form your own opinion as I am sure will other members of the list. > > Chandrashekhar. > > suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji > > > > Pls find the reply below, is an interesting read. I have underlined or > > changed color or made it bold to highlight few key things. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil John > > > > ___________ > > > > Sunil John [suniljohn10 > > <suniljohn10%40gmail.com>] > > > > Monday, August 28, 2006 12:39 PM > > > > james <james%40jameskelleher.com> > > > > USA Chart/Sunil John: Mumbai > > > > Hi Sunil, > > > > Thanks for your email. Yes, the chart rectification was the result of a > > commission which allowed me to spend 3 months doing research. One thing > > that came out of the research was a note made by Thomas Jefferson in his > > personal writings, that the declaration had been signed, and the signing > > was finished in the evening of July 4,1776 and that the delagates "were > > home in time for dinner". This would place the event anywhere from the > > late afternoon to the early evening....from 4:pm - 8 pm. This narrows > > the possible times considerably. The rest is based on working with the > > chart and historical periods. I don't have the time (or the desire) to > > debate the accuracy of this rectification. The chart works well. It is > > noteworthy, however, that many other well-known Vedic astrologers are > > using this chart. David Frawley, Chakrapani Ullal and various others > > have all agreed on how well it works and have addopted it as the the > > right time. > > > > Regards, > > > > James Kelleher > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > Dear James, > > > > Namaste > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > Please see Astro data bank site and you will find many more lagnas > > being > > > justified by different astrologers. As you said one can always justify > > > one or two events from any lagna. I have given the quotes on when > > > declaration of Independence was signed from one site on declaration of > > > Independence/ George Washington and another from a Thomas Jefferson > > > dedicated site. You will see that Sagittarius lagna may be too far > > > fetched. Again remember that one has to take LMT for 1776 times and > > > recession of equinox has to be deducted for a Vedic chart. i am not > > sure > > > whether that was done in chart drawn by Kellher. I think it was a > > Sayana > > > chart if I remember what I saw on Lois Rodden's site. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekharji, > > > > > > > > I can be wrong here since I have only justified two events (which > > can be > > > > done from any lagna) & didn't want to post those personal notes on > > the > > > > list > > > > > > > > USA (Kelleher Chart) > > > > > > > > Natal Chart > > > > > > > > July 4, 1776 > > > > Time: 18:30:00 > > > > Time Zone: 5:00:00 (West of GMT) > > > > Place: 75 W 09' 51", 39 N 57' 08" > > > > Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA > > > > Altitude: 40.00 meters > > > > > > > > Lunar Yr-Mo: Durmukha - Ashadha > > > > Tithi: Krishna Chaturthi (Me) (28.44% left) > > > > Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su) > > > > Nakshatra: Satabhishak (Ra) (95.74% left) > > > > Yoga: Ayushman (Ke) (75.88% left) > > > > Karana: Balava (Mo) (56.87% left) > > > > Hora Lord: Mars (5 min sign: Le) > > > > Mahakala Hora: Jupiter (5 min sign: Ta) > > > > Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Venus) > > > > > > > > Sunrise: 4:41:57 > > > > Sunset: 19:27:09 > > > > Janma Ghatis: 34.5020 > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa: 20-44-00.34 > > > > Sidereal Time: 13:23:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 - Release Date: > > 8/24/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Dear Sunil, I ca not comment on the look and spiritual circles. I have never heard of Jyotish nadi in one's body, and may not be competent enough to comment on this. Chandrashekhar. suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > Dear Chandrashekharji, > > Well according to James , Chakrapani is using James chart & so is David > Frawley. Well to me it doesn't truly matter who uses which lagna, I > haven't thoroughly checked both the lagnas. When a person like KN Rao > uses Leo lagna it doesn't matter since he is a SAGE, all lagnas will > give him the same result. His Jyotish Nadi in the body has been > activated is my own opinion based on moments when I saw his eyes had the > what is called in spiritual circles "The Look". > > Also, I have no interest in Mundane astrology though I wanted to spend > some time yesterday on using a particular method in the USA chart but > then its time consuming n whats the use of posting it on lists, it only > becomes self gratification. > > I read ur mail, u do have a point but am not sure of accepting it > > I am sure James > > must have taken into consideration the distances between all the 56 > > signatories' residence and the Pennsylvania state house. > > James's observation was on Thomas Jefferson's personal writings & his > being on time for dinner, so maybe we can see the distance between his > house and the state house and not all 56 signatories. > > Regards, > > Sunil John > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > I would not like to comment on what James says. But if I am not wrong > > did some one not say that Chakrapani uses some other lagna? Again in > > 1776 L.M.T was applicable and there does not seem to be any reason to > > use standard time in the calculations. I know that in rectified charts > > it may not matter, but this is something that appears to be odd. I do > > not think roads in U.S.A were so good that people could reach their > home > > in time for dinner (8.00 p.m. as James says), by horse drawn carriage, > > had the declaration been signed by 18.30. > > But that is a very subjective type of judgement to pass. I am sure > James > > must have taken into consideration the distances between all the 56 > > signatories' residence and the Pennsylvania state house. > > > > Again for your information I give something that I found on > > http://www.constitutionfacts.com/declaration/Decl_Signers.htm > <http://www.constitutionfacts.com/declaration/Decl_Signers.htm> > > > > "All of the colonies were represented in Philadelphia to consider the > > delicate case for independence and to change the course of the war. In > > all, there were fifty-six representatives from the thirteen colonies. > > Fourteen represented the New England Colonies, twenty-one represented > > the Middle Colonies and twenty-one represented the Southern Colonies. > > The largest number (9) came from Pennsylvania. Most of the signers > were > > American born although eight were foreign born. The ages of the > signers > > ranged from 26 (Edward Rutledge) to 70 (Benjamin Franklin), but the > > majority of the signers were in their thirties or forties. More than > > half of the signers were lawyers and the others were planters, > merchants > > and shippers. Together they mutually pledged "to each other our Lives, > > our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." They were mostly men of means who > > had much to lose if the war was lost. None of the signers died at the > > hands of the British, and one-third served as militia officers during > > the war. Four of the signers were taken captive during the war and > > nearly all of them were poorer at the end of the war than at the > > beginning. No matter what each of these men did after July 1776, the > > actual signing of the Declaration of Independence which began on > August > > 2 ensured them instant immortality. The following gives a bit of > > information about each signer AFTER the signing of the Declaration of > > Independence." > > > > > > So much for signing of declaration of independence on July the 4th. So > > you can form your own opinion as I am sure will other members of the > list. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji > > > > > > Pls find the reply below, is an interesting read. I have underlined > or > > > changed color or made it bold to highlight few key things. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > ___________ > > > > > > Sunil John [suniljohn10 > > > <suniljohn10%40gmail.com>] > > > > > > Monday, August 28, 2006 12:39 PM > > > > > > james <james%40jameskelleher.com> > > > > > > USA Chart/Sunil John: Mumbai > > > > > > Hi Sunil, > > > > > > Thanks for your email. Yes, the chart rectification was the result > of a > > > commission which allowed me to spend 3 months doing research. One > thing > > > that came out of the research was a note made by Thomas Jefferson in > his > > > personal writings, that the declaration had been signed, and the > signing > > > was finished in the evening of July 4,1776 and that the delagates > "were > > > home in time for dinner". This would place the event anywhere from > the > > > late afternoon to the early evening....from 4:pm - 8 pm. This > narrows > > > the possible times considerably. The rest is based on working with > the > > > chart and historical periods. I don't have the time (or the desire) > to > > > debate the accuracy of this rectification. The chart works well. It > is > > > noteworthy, however, that many other well-known Vedic astrologers > are > > > using this chart. David Frawley, Chakrapani Ullal and various others > > > have all agreed on how well it works and have addopted it as the the > > > right time. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > James Kelleher > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru|| > > > > > > Dear James, > > > > > > Namaste > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > Please see Astro data bank site and you will find many more lagnas > > > being > > > > justified by different astrologers. As you said one can always > justify > > > > one or two events from any lagna. I have given the quotes on when > > > > declaration of Independence was signed from one site on > declaration of > > > > Independence/ George Washington and another from a Thomas > Jefferson > > > > dedicated site. You will see that Sagittarius lagna may be too far > > > > fetched. Again remember that one has to take LMT for 1776 times > and > > > > recession of equinox has to be deducted for a Vedic chart. i am > not > > > sure > > > > whether that was done in chart drawn by Kellher. I think it was a > > > Sayana > > > > chart if I remember what I saw on Lois Rodden's site. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekharji, > > > > > > > > > > I can be wrong here since I have only justified two events > (which > > > can be > > > > > done from any lagna) & didn't want to post those personal notes > on > > > the > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > USA (Kelleher Chart) > > > > > > > > > > Natal Chart > > > > > > > > > > July 4, 1776 > > > > > Time: 18:30:00 > > > > > Time Zone: 5:00:00 (West of GMT) > > > > > Place: 75 W 09' 51", 39 N 57' 08" > > > > > Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA > > > > > Altitude: 40.00 meters > > > > > > > > > > Lunar Yr-Mo: Durmukha - Ashadha > > > > > Tithi: Krishna Chaturthi (Me) (28.44% left) > > > > > Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su) > > > > > Nakshatra: Satabhishak (Ra) (95.74% left) > > > > > Yoga: Ayushman (Ke) (75.88% left) > > > > > Karana: Balava (Mo) (56.87% left) > > > > > Hora Lord: Mars (5 min sign: Le) > > > > > Mahakala Hora: Jupiter (5 min sign: Ta) > > > > > Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Venus) > > > > > > > > > > Sunrise: 4:41:57 > > > > > Sunset: 19:27:09 > > > > > Janma Ghatis: 34.5020 > > > > > > > > > > Ayanamsa: 20-44-00.34 > > > > > Sidereal Time: 13:23:26 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 - Release Date: > > > 8/24/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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