Dharma of changing others and Disclaimer to Truth

[Guest guest]

Fine to change oneself through sadhana,

but to blindly "accept everything" is an Ideal

that doesn't always apply to everyday life,

especially in the day-to-day non-ashramic life.

Changing others is sometimes a necessary evil,

for those who haven't yet had to deal with

such situations. It's easy to look the

other way... just turn your head.

 

The problem I see in finding Dharma here

is bowing to the facts:

 

Example: This is an Ammachi list, so extended

and non-pertinent discussions of other guru's

and quotes should be referred to another

over-flow list such as Ammafreespeechzone.

Bonafide discussions of Dayamrita or other

Public Figures should be allowed if based on FACTS,

no matter how detestable or undesired. Truth

isn't always beautiful. (ie. Don't turn your head!)

 

Dharma Example: Tightening the controls on this group should

include a Disclaimer on the homepage such as, "Because some topics or

discussions may become unruly, off-topic and abusive, warnings will

be given and the posts may be deleted to stop the discussion IN THE

NAME OF CIVILITY if nothing else. Because of this, complete

expression by indivduals and thereby full-experience of Truth and

Reality ("satsang") may not occur in spite of the best efforts of

moderator(s). Participate at your own choice."

 

This kind of Disclaimer avoids the all too often leaving-out-of-

information so that blame is on the individual instead of the

organization (cults!)

 

tom

 

 

Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammademon wrote:

>

> Surya and all,

>

> IMHO and respectfully, this is a classic case of "the other must

> change" versus "change myself".

>

> The desire to see:

> 1. Keval change his policies

> 2. this group tranform to a more focused group etc

>

> belongs to the realm of "change others".

>

> Does Amma not tell us to live in harmony with the world by accepting

> them AS IS? Did Sri Yukteshwar (Yogananda's guru) not say "live like

> an ant; take the sugar, don't disturb the sand"? (Keval, I don't

mean

> to say you are sand!)

>

> a "change myself" solution would be what I suggested before but on

> which no response has been registered yet:

> 1. Create another group which is directly inspired by Amma and is

> moderated according to Amma's instructions (maybe a Br. or a senior

> devotee can oversee the moderation and take direct guidance from

Amma

> to lead this new group)

> 2. Let all other groups flourish AS IS!

>

> Jai Ma!

>

[Guest guest]

But what you say are facts, may not actually be facts, but just your opinion. Then what?

 

You keep saying the same things over and over. I don't quite understand why.

 

Also Keval has made it clear that he doesn't wish to tighten the reigns whatsoever.

 

 

-

Tom

Ammachi

Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:22 AM

Re: Dharma of changing others and Disclaimer to Truth

 

 

Fine to change oneself through sadhana,

but to blindly "accept everything" is an Ideal

that doesn't always apply to everyday life,

especially in the day-to-day non-ashramic life.

Changing others is sometimes a necessary evil,

for those who haven't yet had to deal with

such situations. It's easy to look the

other way... just turn your head.

 

The problem I see in finding Dharma here

is bowing to the facts:

 

Example: This is an Ammachi list, so extended

and non-pertinent discussions of other guru's

and quotes should be referred to another

over-flow list such as Ammafreespeechzone.

Bonafide discussions of Dayamrita or other

Public Figures should be allowed if based on FACTS,

no matter how detestable or undesired. Truth

isn't always beautiful. (ie. Don't turn your head!)

 

Dharma Example: Tightening the controls on this group should

include a Disclaimer on the homepage such as, "Because some topics or

discussions may become unruly, off-topic and abusive, warnings will

be given and the posts may be deleted to stop the discussion IN THE

NAME OF CIVILITY if nothing else. Because of this, complete

expression by indivduals and thereby full-experience of Truth and

Reality ("satsang") may not occur in spite of the best efforts of

moderator(s). Participate at your own choice."

 

This kind of Disclaimer avoids the all too often leaving-out-of-

information so that blame is on the individual instead of the

organization (cults!)

 

tom

 

Ammachi, "manoj_menon" <ammademon wrote:

>

> Surya and all,

>

> IMHO and respectfully, this is a classic case of "the other must

> change" versus "change myself".

>

> The desire to see:

> 1. Keval change his policies

> 2. this group tranform to a more focused group etc

>

> belongs to the realm of "change others".

>

> Does Amma not tell us to live in harmony with the world by accepting

> them AS IS? Did Sri Yukteshwar (Yogananda's guru) not say "live like

> an ant; take the sugar, don't disturb the sand"? (Keval, I don't

mean

> to say you are sand!)

>

> a "change myself" solution would be what I suggested before but on

> which no response has been registered yet:

> 1. Create another group which is directly inspired by Amma and is

> moderated according to Amma's instructions (maybe a Br. or a senior

> devotee can oversee the moderation and take direct guidance from

Amma

> to lead this new group)

> 2. Let all other groups flourish AS IS!

>

> Jai Ma!

>

[Guest guest]

I say things over and over because the facts of what I've posted

isn't being debated, but merely responded to with feelings or

beliefs, and then myself is attacked. For example, Dharma is

subject to an individual's status, etc., but not subjective to the

individual's opinion, it's Objective and undebatable based on facts.

 

My other problem with some of the members on this list and local

satsang is that they won't admit certain Assumptions unless pushed

into a corner. I really don't have a problem if devotees think that

Officials such as Dayamrita or local satsang "appointees" are quite

Infallible and that any problems are our own egos, Just Be Upfront

and Honest about it, and I'd stop. It doesn't help anyone when a

person thinks, "Oh, they're not Infallible, but they're never wrong

because Amma's will guides them, and so it must be your ego." Just

opnely say you believe they're Infallible according to that above and

YOU'D SEE what I'm talking about: contradicting your own facts.

 

As with my requested Disclaimer, alot of people don't like the so-

called "bashing" I've done, but then again people are placing all

bashing into the same category of undesireable versus Necessary and

Unnecessary. If it's ever censored, then at least provide the

disclaimer previous given. Don't trick people by withholding that

kind of information thinking you're protecting them.

 

tom

 

Ammachi, "Mahamuni Das" <mahamuni wrote:

>

> But what you say are facts, may not actually be facts, but just

your

opinion. Then what?

>

> You keep saying the same things over and over. I don't quite

understand why.

>

> Also Keval has made it clear that he doesn't wish to tighten the

reigns whatsoever.

>

>

 

(tom's original snipped out)

[Guest guest]

I am not listening

 

Om Namashivaya - In Amma's service,

 

Supriti Omenka Nnadi