rough stones becoming smoother

August 24, 2006

Surya,

That is true. Is it possible for you to respond to

what is happening here in a way that is more

inclusive?

And really for each of us, not defensive, or in a

manner that might prompt another to defend themselves.

It is as though if someone shares their experience,

and another is not in agreement on it, we bring out

the shield.

The only thing that comes to mind is that we are not

able to agree on information and truth as a whole in

this group.

It is also not advisable to put down a saint in a

public forum, which you have done a few times.

We may not resonate with the same Divine

Personalities, but it is best to keep this to

yourself, unless you feel it is of real danger to

another and then you have to decide what is best to

do.

Having stricter guidelines on this forum may not

really be the best answer either, as people do not

want to feel as though they are being controlled.

Are we getting into an arena, where we cannot find the

right place for such a forum? This is just a question,

I do not have the answer.

Right now things seem explosive.

Are we projecting our stuff onto this forum? Which is

only natural, but it is also a great place to see the

Mirror?

Is not the Guru our Divine Mirror, is not this Forum a

form of Ammachi, she is holding us and we are now

rumbling against each other as rough stones.

S

--- Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

> Here is a thought though:

>

> Just because someone writes something in a book,

> doesn't make it true.

>

> Just because someone says something in a talk,

> satsang or private comment, doesn't make it true.

>

> Again, it is just food for thought.

>

August 24, 2006

Stacee,

I have said this before and I will say it again:

Email and online forums are not the best place for communication. The tone is quite often misunderstood, as is the intent. I made a simple statment and look at your response. Also now you accuse me of putting down saints in a public forum? Who and when?

I held my tongue quite a bit when you quoted a certain "master". I never said a word, though I know quite a bit.

This is supposed to be an Amma group, yet the focus sways often to non-Amma subjects. Again, there are many other groups for that. People don't have to feel controlled. They can just go there. Deleting is not the answer. Some people don't even want to read these things and it is often not so easy to tell what the comments will be from the titles.

I have a very direct writing style. I am often quite busy and sometimes answer these posts quickly. But it seems people want to jump at the slightest thing. Can't we assume that people don't mean harm and just search for what we like in their comments or question them as nicely as possible if we don't?

All I said was don't believe everything you read. Books are generally written to sell books. That is a fact. Often they are edited and embellished. Sometimes they are quite fraudulent.

Hey, but you don't have to believe me. Its your life. I already learned this the hard way.

Pranams and Blessings,

Surya

-

Stacee Kramer

Ammachi

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:46 PM

rough stones becoming smoother

Surya,

That is true. Is it possible for you to respond to

what is happening here in a way that is more

inclusive?

And really for each of us, not defensive, or in a

manner that might prompt another to defend themselves.

It is as though if someone shares their experience,

and another is not in agreement on it, we bring out

the shield.

The only thing that comes to mind is that we are not

able to agree on information and truth as a whole in

this group.

It is also not advisable to put down a saint in a

public forum, which you have done a few times.

We may not resonate with the same Divine

Personalities, but it is best to keep this to

yourself, unless you feel it is of real danger to

another and then you have to decide what is best to

do.

Having stricter guidelines on this forum may not

really be the best answer either, as people do not

want to feel as though they are being controlled.

Are we getting into an arena, where we cannot find the

right place for such a forum? This is just a question,

I do not have the answer.

Right now things seem explosive.

Are we projecting our stuff onto this forum? Which is

only natural, but it is also a great place to see the

Mirror?

Is not the Guru our Divine Mirror, is not this Forum a

form of Ammachi, she is holding us and we are now

rumbling against each other as rough stones.

S

--- Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

> Here is a thought though:

>

> Just because someone writes something in a book,

> doesn't make it true.

>

> Just because someone says something in a talk,

> satsang or private comment, doesn't make it true.

>

> Again, it is just food for thought.

>

August 24, 2006

Namah Shivayah,

Ditto on Surya's points. Additionally, I am through with partaking in the discussion over

whether or not one should see other "saints" or "gurus". As I've said before, Amma has

been pretty clear to me, personally on that specific issue. For others, it may be different or

Amma may have told them it was fine to see a certain guru or whatever...that is none of

my business. I am just taking her at her word based on what she had said in public forums

about the issue of seeing other gurus and that's that.That's what I do. Others do

differently. Who has the authority to say which is right and wrong or if there is a right or

wrong at all?

I think the more pressing issue right now is in regard to this online satsang. It has

spiralled out of control waaaay before this issue of gurus. Certainly, noone wants to be

told what to do. Freedom of speech is not the issue either. I think the main thing is that

this is an AMMACHI group and there needs to be some type of structure. If talk of other

gurus and other darshans is given free-reign here then the group is no longer an

AMMACHI group, is it? Or, it is a group that is "somewhat" based on Amma. Just seems like

common sense to me. Either way, if you were a newbie just signing up to this group, and

you happened to scroll through the posts from the past month or so....you might get a

sour taste in your mouth and wonder just what kind of Amma group you signed up for.

This is not mere conjecture, I know for a fact that this has happened.

Like, why don't they play videos of other saints and "masters" at Amma's public programs?

Because people are there to see Amma. It would be inappropriate. It is inappropriate here.

That's how I see it. I am here for Amma. So are many. Why is that rubbing some people the

wrong way? Keeping an Ammachi group Amma centered doesn't seem that outlandish to

me. I really don't understand.

Respectfully,

In Her,

Ananthasree

Ammachi, "Mahamuni Das" <mahamuni wrote:

>

> Stacee,

>

> I have said this before and I will say it again:

>

> Email and online forums are not the best place for communication. The tone is quite

often misunderstood, as is the intent. I made a simple statment and look at your

response. Also now you accuse me of putting down saints in a public forum? Who and

when?

>

> I held my tongue quite a bit when you quoted a certain "master". I never said a word,

though I know quite a bit.

>

> This is supposed to be an Amma group, yet the focus sways often to non-Amma

subjects. Again, there are many other groups for that. People don't have to feel

controlled. They can just go there. Deleting is not the answer. Some people don't even

want to read these things and it is often not so easy to tell what the comments will be

from the titles.

>

> I have a very direct writing style. I am often quite busy and sometimes answer these

posts quickly. But it seems people want to jump at the slightest thing. Can't we assume

that people don't mean harm and just search for what we like in their comments or

question them as nicely as possible if we don't?

>

> All I said was don't believe everything you read. Books are generally written to sell

books. That is a fact. Often they are edited and embellished. Sometimes they are quite

fraudulent.

>

> Hey, but you don't have to believe me. Its your life. I already learned this the hard way.

>

> Pranams and Blessings,

>

> Surya

> -

> Stacee Kramer

> Ammachi

> Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:46 PM

> rough stones becoming smoother

>

> Surya,

>

> That is true. Is it possible for you to respond to

> what is happening here in a way that is more

> inclusive?

>

> And really for each of us, not defensive, or in a

> manner that might prompt another to defend themselves.

>

> It is as though if someone shares their experience,

> and another is not in agreement on it, we bring out

> the shield.

>

> The only thing that comes to mind is that we are not

> able to agree on information and truth as a whole in

> this group.

>

> It is also not advisable to put down a saint in a

> public forum, which you have done a few times.

>

> We may not resonate with the same Divine

> Personalities, but it is best to keep this to

> yourself, unless you feel it is of real danger to

> another and then you have to decide what is best to

> do.

>

> Having stricter guidelines on this forum may not

> really be the best answer either, as people do not

> want to feel as though they are being controlled.

>

> Are we getting into an arena, where we cannot find the

> right place for such a forum? This is just a question,

> I do not have the answer.

>

> Right now things seem explosive.

>

> Are we projecting our stuff onto this forum? Which is

> only natural, but it is also a great place to see the

> Mirror?

>

> Is not the Guru our Divine Mirror, is not this Forum a

> form of Ammachi, she is holding us and we are now

> rumbling against each other as rough stones.

>

> S

>

> --- Mahamuni Das <mahamuni wrote:

>

> > Here is a thought though:

> >

> > Just because someone writes something in a book,

> > doesn't make it true.

> >

> > Just because someone says something in a talk,

> > satsang or private comment, doesn't make it true.

> >

> > Again, it is just food for thought.

> >

>

August 24, 2006

"Like, why don't they play videos of other saints and "masters" at Amma's public programs?

Because people are there to see Amma. It would be inappropriate. It is inappropriate here.

That's how I see it. I am here for Amma. So are many. Why is that rubbing some people the

wrong way? Keeping an Ammachi group Amma centered doesn't seem that outlandish to

me. I really don't understand".

This is really well said. It states the point plainly.

I think that I will also retire from this group. I will not , but I will fade into the background and look for another forum that can actually focus on Amma, as a satsang should, and will have actual moderation.

It is a shame. I feel that Keval should step down, subject to a vote to do so. He has done a good job, but I feel the group needs different direction.

Keval, are you willing to put it to a vote? If not, why?

Jai Maa!

Surya

August 24, 2006

>

> It is a shame. I feel that Keval should step down,

> subject to a vote to do so. He has done a good job,

> but I feel the group needs different direction.

>

> Keval, are you willing to put it to a vote? If not,

> why?

>

I could put it to a vote.. but it seems like several

members of this group are voting with their feet (or

with their mouse) by unsubscribing or starting their

own new .

btw, if you don't think I am doing a proper job..

today I rejected a disgusting post entitled "BEWARE

THE GAME PLAN OF THE WHITE RACE".. not only do I have

to boot out the spammers but the cross-burning white

sheet-wearing crowd too!

Keval

August 25, 2006

I never said you weren't keeping out obscene posts. You have done a great job of that for sure. Why is communication always so unclear here?

But according to you, we could just click delete anyway, right?

This is the perfect example of what some of us have been saying. To some, seeing anything but purely Amma related posts, is offensive. Certainly to see quotes from other Gurus still living, especially those who an individual may view as a totally false teacher. Everyone will have their own take on it.

Keval, why don't you tell us the story of how you became moderator. I still think the moderator position should be put to a vote, or at least the policies of the group. There also can be more than one moderator.

Jai Maa!

Surya

-

Mike Brooker

Ammachi

Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:48 PM

Re: Re: rough stones becoming smoother

>

> It is a shame. I feel that Keval should step down,

> subject to a vote to do so. He has done a good job,

> but I feel the group needs different direction.

>

> Keval, are you willing to put it to a vote? If not,

> why?

>

I could put it to a vote.. but it seems like several

members of this group are voting with their feet (or

with their mouse) by unsubscribing or starting their

own new .

btw, if you don't think I am doing a proper job..

today I rejected a disgusting post entitled "BEWARE

THE GAME PLAN OF THE WHITE RACE".. not only do I have

to boot out the spammers but the cross-burning white

sheet-wearing crowd too!

Keval

August 25, 2006

Namaste,

My vote is for Keval, period!

I have a different take on this current conflict, it seems only Western devotees have issues and Indian devotees don't. I joined this group in late 2002 and always enjoyed Keval posts. Is this due to upbringing of Western people in Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) where everyone is self righteous and no tolerance for other religions.

I can't believe all this fuss about somebody posting something regarding Mother Meera. Indian devotees couldn't care less, we are brought up in a culture of acceptance. I myself came to know about Ammachi through Sri Ramakrishna mission (different spiritual movement), Bavatharini deity in Amritapuri is made by same set of people responsible for Bavathaiini in Dakshineshwar. In initial stages Ammachi's monks were initiated by SRK monks, Indians don't see any difference or anything unusual. I understand Western devotees are brought up in rival Christian denominations but folks we are talking about Ammachi who visited Tiruannamalai and lots of other places.

Keval you are doing excellent job, and I should also confess that Canadian Football league sucks compared to NFL.

Jai Shri Ram

Avinash.

Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: I never said you weren't keeping out obscene posts. You have done a great job of that for sure. Why is communication always so unclear here?

But according to you, we could just click delete anyway, right?

This is the perfect example of what some of us have been saying. To some, seeing anything but purely Amma related posts, is offensive. Certainly to see quotes from other Gurus still living, especially those who an individual may view as a totally false teacher. Everyone will have their own take on it.

Keval, why don't you tell us the story of how you became moderator. I still think the moderator position should be put to a vote, or at least the policies of the group. There also can be more than one moderator.

Jai Maa!

Surya

-

Mike Brooker

Ammachi

Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:48 PM

Re: Re: rough stones becoming smoother

>

> It is a shame. I feel that Keval should step down,

> subject to a vote to do so. He has done a good job,

> but I feel the group needs different direction.

>

> Keval, are you willing to put it to a vote? If not,

> why?

>

I could put it to a vote.. but it seems like several

members of this group are voting with their feet (or

with their mouse) by unsubscribing or starting their

own new .

btw, if you don't think I am doing a proper job..

today I rejected a disgusting post entitled "BEWARE

THE GAME PLAN OF THE WHITE RACE".. not only do I have

to boot out the spammers but the cross-burning white

sheet-wearing crowd too!

Keval

August 25, 2006

While I can respect your opinion, do we have to make this a sort of racial thing now?

It is Amma Herself that has stated certain things in regards to this, as some have quoted.

I personally have seen many other saints and I saw Mother Meera. But that is not the point that several were trying to make.

Blessings,

Surya

-

avinash ramidi

Ammachi

Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:47 PM

Re: Re: rough stones becoming smoother

Namaste,

My vote is for Keval, period!

I have a different take on this current conflict, it seems only Western devotees have issues and Indian devotees don't. I joined this group in late 2002 and always enjoyed Keval posts. Is this due to upbringing of Western people in Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) where everyone is self righteous and no tolerance for other religions.

I can't believe all this fuss about somebody posting something regarding Mother Meera. Indian devotees couldn't care less, we are brought up in a culture of acceptance. I myself came to know about Ammachi through Sri Ramakrishna mission (different spiritual movement), Bavatharini deity in Amritapuri is made by same set of people responsible for Bavathaiini in Dakshineshwar. In initial stages Ammachi's monks were initiated by SRK monks, Indians don't see any difference or anything unusual. I understand Western devotees are brought up in rival Christian denominations but folks we are talking about Ammachi who visited Tiruannamalai and lots of other places.

Keval you are doing excellent job, and I should also confess that Canadian Football league sucks compared to NFL.

Jai Shri Ram

Avinash.

Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: I never said you weren't keeping out obscene posts. You have done a great job of that for sure. Why is communication always so unclear here?

But according to you, we could just click delete anyway, right?

This is the perfect example of what some of us have been saying. To some, seeing anything but purely Amma related posts, is offensive. Certainly to see quotes from other Gurus still living, especially those who an individual may view as a totally false teacher. Everyone will have their own take on it.

Keval, why don't you tell us the story of how you became moderator. I still think the moderator position should be put to a vote, or at least the policies of the group. There also can be more than one moderator.

Jai Maa!

Surya

-

Mike Brooker

Ammachi

Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:48 PM

Re: Re: rough stones becoming smoother

>

> It is a shame. I feel that Keval should step down,

> subject to a vote to do so. He has done a good job,

> but I feel the group needs different direction.

>

> Keval, are you willing to put it to a vote? If not,

> why?

>

I could put it to a vote.. but it seems like several

members of this group are voting with their feet (or

with their mouse) by unsubscribing or starting their

own new .

btw, if you don't think I am doing a proper job..

today I rejected a disgusting post entitled "BEWARE

THE GAME PLAN OF THE WHITE RACE".. not only do I have

to boot out the spammers but the cross-burning white

sheet-wearing crowd too!

Keval

August 25, 2006

Ammachi, "Mahamuni Das" <mahamuni wrote:

>

> While I can respect your opinion, do we have to make this a sort of

racial thing now?

>

> It is Amma Herself that has stated certain things in regards to

this, as some have quoted.

>

> I personally have seen many other saints and I saw Mother Meera.

But that is not the point that several were trying to make.

>

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

Namaskarams!

but you do have to admit that it is funny that it DOES split along

those lines...i wouldn't call it racial lines, (as we are not really

different races) however, i would call it "cultural lines"...and

there does seem to be a split along those very cultural lines....and i

am firmly on the same side as the Indians in this case....wide angle

vision always appears to be best for me! (unless i'm operating to

remove a splinter from my foot!...then the narrow focus works well)

anyways, my main reason for posting this was because i forgot to

"vote" in my last post...

my vote is for KEVAL

i think he's a GREAT moderator...

THank you Keval for the wonderful job you do on this list!

in Amma's divine Love,

and in Her Service,

as ever,

your Keval voting Self,

visvanathan

August 25, 2006

Again, no, I don't see it that way at all. It hasn't been my experience.

-

kasi_visvanath

Ammachi

Friday, August 25, 2006 12:00 AM

Re: rough stones becoming smoother