Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think what is missing piece of understanding on this subject is simply that devotees who have chosen this particular Ammachi was to focus on Amma. IF you attend a Catholic Church, they will not discuss Amma. The teachings are Christ's teachings. Or when you go to a Sai Babba Satsang, teachings of Sai Babba are taught, no others. Hence, at an Amma Satsang, -such as this, you would expect teachings and experiences related to Amma. Other gurus are not the focus of the discussion. It is certainly not a competition as someone mentioned-not at all. It is simply that for those who are Amma devotees, She exemplifies what we see as Divine Mother in human form. There are many forums available for more discussion. I have seen other gurus and do not share the experience that others have. That is not to diminish their divinity. It simply means that they are not my guru, nothing more. This is an Amma list. Perhaps it will yield some clarification on the feelings some may have. It is simply that what resonates most for me and makes me divinely aware of Her Presence, is hearing about others' experiences with Amma and no one else. Again, this is not to diminish anything that others experience at all. in Amma, adriane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Thank you Adreinne for articulating so clearly what I meant when I said I thought it was not appropriate to dicuss experiences with other gurus on this list. It's a matter of focus not of censorship. I feel ok about the sharing of quotes from other masters that deepen our understanding of our path with Amma e.g. the Rumi verses that someone recently shared. in Amma, Amalia Ôm Amriteswaryai Namah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Dear Sisters/Brothers in Amma: Om Namah Shivaya!!!! Peter White (Kandar) was the original founding moderator prior to Keval. In Peter's welcoming text he set firm guidelines. Guideline Number one PROHIBITS: "Any topics not related to the purpose of this List or that have nothing to do with Ammachi;" he current moderator has seemingly turned this group into a carbon copy of the Amma Free Zone. If I am incorrect please explain the difference between us and AFZ? If we have morphed into the AFZ Did we ever vote on a structural revamping? Just curious. With Love, GeorgeSon (Chitanand) P.S. For Kandar's "Welcoming" text please click files on the icon to the left. it is the first file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Namah Shivayah, I agree, it is not about competition at all. Whose to say who is right and who is wrong on this subject? I don't think any of us here are capable of determining that. The best we can do is express our opinions and our heartfelt thoughts. When we start thinking we have concrete answers to spirituality, whether our intentions are benevolent or not...that is where these conflicts start. Because of some of the comments that have been made here, I know for a fact that there are many members on this list who are afraid to speak up. Shiva! I have to break my silence. When I raise my hand in agreement with those who feel like Adriane, Amalia and others....it is because I adhere to Amma's words like she is a rope and I am drowing. Maybe this is incorrect or maybe I am not "open enough". I just have blind faith in my Guru who has also told me to have blind faith in Her. So, when Amma says that going to see other Guru's is like infedelity in a marriage, then I have no choice but to believe absolutely in what she says. I have heard Amma talk on this subject enough times to know where she stands on the matter. Personally I have no desire to see other Gurus, but that is my path. It is not to say other paths are wrong or right, because how could I dare say that when I don't know anything at all? If one really wants to know the ultimate answer to this debate, they should ask Amma. For me, Amma is God. She is the essence. She is much more than a Guru. In my eyes, she is the one from which everything (including other "gurus") have sprung. It is my personal preference to go directly to the source. It is also why I am a member of this online satsang and why some people, including myself, find themselves frustrated over talk of other Gurus...mainly because it seems to strike us as irrelevant. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree that all Gurus are the same....they all are the same Divine Mother and on and on. I just can't. Maybe I am deluded and I am too steeped in Amma to believe that, but I just can't. I've tried to read these posts with an open mind, but I just don't feel it in my heart. I will not be convinced that every person on this planet claiming to be the Divine Mother is indeed the Divine Mother. Not that I don't believe multiple incarnations are possible....but they certainly are not as common. Also, like I said....Amma is GOD to me, she is beyond guru. She is much higher than a satguru. I wonder if the disciples of Christ went off to sit with and break bread with other teachers of the time? This is all just how I feel, personally and I am not claiming a correct answer here. I just felt the need to express myself in regard to this topic. I am devoted to Amma solely, alone and with every inch of my being and my heart. There is nothing in this world that my soul hungers for but for Her/God, and I will cling to her feet and her words like they are my own life. She has told me many times that it must be this way, and there is nothing in me that could betray her by doing otherwise. Like I said, perhaps I am wrong and should be more open....but everything within me is open to Her, because I do not see any other being on the earth at this time who contains all that she does. For me, everything pales in her shadow. Certainly, there are many saints and sages in this world who are sincere and hold the tremendous power of God within them. I am not disputing that. If there are devotees of Amma's who go to these people, and they benefit from it...then I think that it is wonderful and I am happy for their experiences. What makes me feel bad (and part of the reason I feel compelled to speak up) is how some of the posts here seem to intimate that those of us who are devoted solely to Amma are somehow not open enough or spiritually evolved enough to see the Divine Mother in everyone. It's very sad that it is being painted that way, and I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way. A part of me thinks Amma has her hand in this whole discussion. It is helping all of us, regardless of what side of the argument we are on. For me, reading some of these posts have been a test of faith of sorts. I have to thank this discussion for that. That said, I must echo the sentiments of others on this board who have been exasperated over the recent threads. I don't enjoy coming to this online satsang as much as I used to. There is always bickering and ego wars going on here and it's just not where I want to be. I understand that this is how we grow, but frankly, it is just sickening and I dread seeing what the latest argument is. I used to come here to feel Amma's shakti oozing from all of the posts. So, I am retreating from this group for awhile. I don't want to argue points anymore and I feel that Amma would say that we were wasting time in these petty arguments. For example, I should be doing seva right now, but I just got caught up in this thread. Perfect example. Someone on this list (I am not sure who it is) has another called "Amma Bhakti". I am going to visit there from now on, and help get that group more active...since the title alone speaks more of where I want to be. Someone there asked me if I would like to moderate that group, and I think I am going to do this. This group might be a good idea for others who want more of a bhakti focus. Bowing Down To Everyone Here, In Her, Ananthasree http://www.ananthasree.com Ammachi, "Adriane Bradley" <a1driane wrote: > > I think what is missing piece of understanding on this subject is simply that devotees who have chosen this particular Ammachi was to focus on Amma. IF you attend a Catholic Church, they will not discuss Amma. The teachings are Christ's teachings. Or when you go to a Sai Babba Satsang, teachings of Sai Babba are taught, no others. Hence, at an Amma Satsang, -such as this, you would expect teachings and experiences related to Amma. Other gurus are not the focus of the discussion. > > It is certainly not a competition as someone mentioned-not at all. It is simply that for those who are Amma devotees, She exemplifies what we see as Divine Mother in human form. There are many forums available for more discussion. I have seen other gurus and do not share the experience that others have. That is not to diminish their divinity. It simply means that they are not my guru, nothing more. This is an Amma list. Perhaps it will yield some clarification on the feelings some may have. It is simply that what resonates most for me and makes me divinely aware of Her Presence, is hearing about others' experiences with Amma and no one else. Again, this is not to diminish anything that others experience at all. > > in Amma, > adriane > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Well said. This is no different than any other Amma satsang, except at this one, you wind up hearing ALL the conversations in the room. Jai Maa! Surya - Adriane Bradley Ammachi Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:56 PM Many Divine Mothers I think what is missing piece of understanding on this subject is simply that devotees who have chosen this particular Ammachi was to focus on Amma. IF you attend a Catholic Church, they will not discuss Amma. The teachings are Christ's teachings. Or when you go to a Sai Babba Satsang, teachings of Sai Babba are taught, no others. Hence, at an Amma Satsang, -such as this, you would expect teachings and experiences related to Amma. Other gurus are not the focus of the discussion. It is certainly not a competition as someone mentioned-not at all. It is simply that for those who are Amma devotees, She exemplifies what we see as Divine Mother in human form. There are many forums available for more discussion. I have seen other gurus and do not share the experience that others have. That is not to diminish their divinity. It simply means that they are not my guru, nothing more. This is an Amma list. Perhaps it will yield some clarification on the feelings some may have. It is simply that what resonates most for me and makes me divinely aware of Her Presence, is hearing about others' experiences with Amma and no one else. Again, this is not to diminish anything that others experience at all. in Amma, adriane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Another well said collection of comments. Jai Maa! Surya - Ananthasree Ammachi Tuesday, August 22, 2006 3:01 PM Re: Many Divine Mothers Namah Shivayah, I agree, it is not about competition at all. Whose to say who is right and who is wrong on this subject? I don't think any of us here are capable of determining that. The best we can do is express our opinions and our heartfelt thoughts. When we start thinking we have concrete answers to spirituality, whether our intentions are benevolent or not...that is where these conflicts start. Because of some of the comments that have been made here, I know for a fact that there are many members on this list who are afraid to speak up. Shiva! I have to break my silence. When I raise my hand in agreement with those who feel like Adriane, Amalia and others....it is because I adhere to Amma's words like she is a rope and I am drowing. Maybe this is incorrect or maybe I am not "open enough". I just have blind faith in my Guru who has also told me to have blind faith in Her. So, when Amma says that going to see other Guru's is like infedelity in a marriage, then I have no choice but to believe absolutely in what she says. I have heard Amma talk on this subject enough times to know where she stands on the matter. Personally I have no desire to see other Gurus, but that is my path. It is not to say other paths are wrong or right, because how could I dare say that when I don't know anything at all? If one really wants to know the ultimate answer to this debate, they should ask Amma. For me, Amma is God. She is the essence. She is much more than a Guru. In my eyes, she is the one from which everything (including other "gurus") have sprung. It is my personal preference to go directly to the source. It is also why I am a member of this online satsang and why some people, including myself, find themselves frustrated over talk of other Gurus...mainly because it seems to strike us as irrelevant. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree that all Gurus are the same....they all are the same Divine Mother and on and on. I just can't. Maybe I am deluded and I am too steeped in Amma to believe that, but I just can't. I've tried to read these posts with an open mind, but I just don't feel it in my heart. I will not be convinced that every person on this planet claiming to be the Divine Mother is indeed the Divine Mother. Not that I don't believe multiple incarnations are possible....but they certainly are not as common. Also, like I said....Amma is GOD to me, she is beyond guru. She is much higher than a satguru. I wonder if the disciples of Christ went off to sit with and break bread with other teachers of the time? This is all just how I feel, personally and I am not claiming a correct answer here. I just felt the need to express myself in regard to this topic. I am devoted to Amma solely, alone and with every inch of my being and my heart. There is nothing in this world that my soul hungers for but for Her/God, and I will cling to her feet and her words like they are my own life. She has told me many times that it must be this way, and there is nothing in me that could betray her by doing otherwise. Like I said, perhaps I am wrong and should be more open....but everything within me is open to Her, because I do not see any other being on the earth at this time who contains all that she does. For me, everything pales in her shadow. Certainly, there are many saints and sages in this world who are sincere and hold the tremendous power of God within them. I am not disputing that. If there are devotees of Amma's who go to these people, and they benefit from it...then I think that it is wonderful and I am happy for their experiences. What makes me feel bad (and part of the reason I feel compelled to speak up) is how some of the posts here seem to intimate that those of us who are devoted solely to Amma are somehow not open enough or spiritually evolved enough to see the Divine Mother in everyone. It's very sad that it is being painted that way, and I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way. A part of me thinks Amma has her hand in this whole discussion. It is helping all of us, regardless of what side of the argument we are on. For me, reading some of these posts have been a test of faith of sorts. I have to thank this discussion for that. That said, I must echo the sentiments of others on this board who have been exasperated over the recent threads. I don't enjoy coming to this online satsang as much as I used to. There is always bickering and ego wars going on here and it's just not where I want to be. I understand that this is how we grow, but frankly, it is just sickening and I dread seeing what the latest argument is. I used to come here to feel Amma's shakti oozing from all of the posts. So, I am retreating from this group for awhile. I don't want to argue points anymore and I feel that Amma would say that we were wasting time in these petty arguments. For example, I should be doing seva right now, but I just got caught up in this thread. Perfect example. Someone on this list (I am not sure who it is) has another called "Amma Bhakti". I am going to visit there from now on, and help get that group more active...since the title alone speaks more of where I want to be. Someone there asked me if I would like to moderate that group, and I think I am going to do this. This group might be a good idea for others who want more of a bhakti focus. Bowing Down To Everyone Here, In Her, Ananthasree http://www.ananthasree.com Ammachi, "Adriane Bradley" <a1driane wrote: > > I think what is missing piece of understanding on this subject is simply that devotees who have chosen this particular Ammachi was to focus on Amma. IF you attend a Catholic Church, they will not discuss Amma. The teachings are Christ's teachings. Or when you go to a Sai Babba Satsang, teachings of Sai Babba are taught, no others. Hence, at an Amma Satsang, -such as this, you would expect teachings and experiences related to Amma. Other gurus are not the focus of the discussion. > > It is certainly not a competition as someone mentioned-not at all. It is simply that for those who are Amma devotees, She exemplifies what we see as Divine Mother in human form. There are many forums available for more discussion. I have seen other gurus and do not share the experience that others have. That is not to diminish their divinity. It simply means that they are not my guru, nothing more. This is an Amma list. Perhaps it will yield some clarification on the feelings some may have. It is simply that what resonates most for me and makes me divinely aware of Her Presence, is hearing about others' experiences with Amma and no one else. Again, this is not to diminish anything that others experience at all. > > in Amma, > adriane > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Dear Groupsters: Peter White (Kandar) was the founder of this group. His guidelines are in the Fle section Kandar said that we are PROHIBITED from posting "Any topics not related to the purpose of this List or that have nothing to do with Ammachi" Gentlepersons please read the banner above this window. The words on my screen say: Ammachi · This list is for those interested in Ammachi (Mata Amritanandamayi) With Love, GeorgeSon P.S. I too am considering a Bhakti Group alternative or heaven forbid do more Sadhana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 And this is coming from a man that went to see Mother Meera, just for the record. Its totally okay to decide your own Path. You don't need to justify it or explain it to anyone. Whether you go to see other Saints, Gurus, etc, is your own business. Your reasons for doing so, are also your business. No one can judge any of this for someone else, except for Goddess/God/Guru. It only affects you anyway. Its your life and you must decide what is right for you and what is not right for you. But that doesn't mean that it has to be talked about here, when the focus of this group is Amma--and not Amma is a Divine Mother in all Her manifestations sense, but in the very beautiful and specific sense that inspired the starting of this group. Anything more than very general statments about other Gurus, etc., seems inappropriate. As in mentioning a collection of them in a sentence, etc. Even that is a bit iffy. There are plenty of other places to discuss such things, like the free speech zone and that is okay, and even a good thing for those that want and need it. Personally, I feel it is more than an infidelity issue. I used to put up the same arguments on how its all one Maa, one Shakti, etc. I still believe this actually. But at the same time, I believe and understand what Amma is saying and seemingly trying to get across. It is best for us, if our focus is singular. In fact, the more singular we can make it, the better. Is that not the point of Yoga and Meditation? One pointedness? Because all of our life is a preparation for the very moment of death. At that time, we want to just think of Amma. The more one pointedly we can call out to Her, the better for us. Amma has said then when we go to other spiritual teachers, we think we are increasing towards our spiritual goal, but actually the opposite is what is true. We are actually losing some of what we have gained. Now what She means exactly regarding this, I couldn't say. Was it translated exactly? I don't know. Is it different for certain individuals? Probably, but again I couldn't say and don't know. I certainly have seen Her rip into some people about wanting to study xyz with this or that teacher, or going to spend time with them. And I mean full on Kali scolding. But these were people that asked. Is there anything really to say about these experiences anyway? I find people just wind up comparing this or that, or stating how they felt or how their meditation was in their presence, etc. Does that really help anyone else? Better to keep silent and keep that Shakti within. Amma has said this to me as well. So have several other Saints that I have met. Anyway I've said enough. Jai Maa! Surya PS I showed Amma a picture of Mother Meera in 1991 or 1992. She asked if She was my Ma. I told her no. I told Amma that She was another avatar like Her. I got this based upon a book I had read quoting other people's experiences of course. I can't remember the rest, except that I do remember Ramakrishna Swami saying to me, She can't be like Amma. There is no one like Amma. PPS Just for the record, I went to see Mother Meera, just because I had always wanted to meet Her but never felt pulled to go to Germany. I have my Maa. But, with some reservation, I went just to experience Her, pay my respects, and complete this desire for me. I will only say, it was nice, but it is not for me. - leokomor Ammachi Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:55 PM Re: Many Divine Mothers Dear Groupsters: Peter White (Kandar) was the founder of this group. His guidelines are in the Fle section Kandar said that we are PROHIBITED from posting "Any topics not related to the purpose of this List or that have nothing to do with Ammachi" Gentlepersons please read the banner above this window. The words on my screen say: Ammachi · This list is for those interested in Ammachi (Mata Amritanandamayi) With Love, GeorgeSon P.S. I too am considering a Bhakti Group alternative or heaven forbid do more Sadhana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Namah Shivayah! Like Chitanand, I am also curious as to this phenomenon, as is evident by my last post. In Her, Ananthasree Ammachi, "leokomor" <leokomor wrote: > > Dear Sisters/Brothers in Amma: > > Om Namah Shivaya!!!! > > Peter White (Kandar) was the original > founding moderator prior to Keval. > > In Peter's welcoming text he set > firm guidelines. > > Guideline Number one PROHIBITS: > > "Any topics not related to the purpose > of this List or that have nothing > > to do with Ammachi;" > > he current moderator has seemingly > turned this group into a carbon copy > of the Amma Free Zone. > > If I am incorrect please explain > the difference between us and AFZ? > > If we have morphed into the AFZ > Did we ever vote on a structural revamping? > Just curious. > > With Love, > > GeorgeSon > (Chitanand) > > P.S. > > For Kandar's "Welcoming" text please click files > on the icon to the left. it is the first file. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Also when I said this is coming from a man that went to see Mother Meera, I was referring to Chittanand. - Mahamuni Das Ammachi Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:35 PM Re: Re: Many Divine Mothers And this is coming from a man that went to see Mother Meera, just for the record. Its totally okay to decide your own Path. You don't need to justify it or explain it to anyone. Whether you go to see other Saints, Gurus, etc, is your own business. Your reasons for doing so, are also your business. No one can judge any of this for someone else, except for Goddess/God/Guru. It only affects you anyway. Its your life and you must decide what is right for you and what is not right for you. But that doesn't mean that it has to be talked about here, when the focus of this group is Amma--and not Amma is a Divine Mother in all Her manifestations sense, but in the very beautiful and specific sense that inspired the starting of this group. Anything more than very general statments about other Gurus, etc., seems inappropriate. As in mentioning a collection of them in a sentence, etc. Even that is a bit iffy. There are plenty of other places to discuss such things, like the free speech zone and that is okay, and even a good thing for those that want and need it. Personally, I feel it is more than an infidelity issue. I used to put up the same arguments on how its all one Maa, one Shakti, etc. I still believe this actually. But at the same time, I believe and understand what Amma is saying and seemingly trying to get across. It is best for us, if our focus is singular. In fact, the more singular we can make it, the better. Is that not the point of Yoga and Meditation? One pointedness? Because all of our life is a preparation for the very moment of death. At that time, we want to just think of Amma. The more one pointedly we can call out to Her, the better for us. Amma has said then when we go to other spiritual teachers, we think we are increasing towards our spiritual goal, but actually the opposite is what is true. We are actually losing some of what we have gained. Now what She means exactly regarding this, I couldn't say. Was it translated exactly? I don't know. Is it different for certain individuals? Probably, but again I couldn't say and don't know. I certainly have seen Her rip into some people about wanting to study xyz with this or that teacher, or going to spend time with them. And I mean full on Kali scolding. But these were people that asked. Is there anything really to say about these experiences anyway? I find people just wind up comparing this or that, or stating how they felt or how their meditation was in their presence, etc. Does that really help anyone else? Better to keep silent and keep that Shakti within. Amma has said this to me as well. So have several other Saints that I have met. Anyway I've said enough. Jai Maa! Surya PS I showed Amma a picture of Mother Meera in 1991 or 1992. She asked if She was my Ma. I told her no. I told Amma that She was another avatar like Her. I got this based upon a book I had read quoting other people's experiences of course. I can't remember the rest, except that I do remember Ramakrishna Swami saying to me, She can't be like Amma. There is no one like Amma.. PPS Just for the record, I went to see Mother Meera, just because I had always wanted to meet Her but never felt pulled to go to Germany. I have my Maa. But, with some reservation, I went just to experience Her, pay my respects, and complete this desire for me. I will only say, it was nice, but it is not for me. - leokomor Ammachi Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:55 PM Re: Many Divine Mothers Dear Groupsters: Peter White (Kandar) was the founder of this group. His guidelines are in the Fle section Kandar said that we are PROHIBITED from posting "Any topics not related to the purpose of this List or that have nothing to do with Ammachi" Gentlepersons please read the banner above this window. The words on my screen say: Ammachi · This list is for those interested in Ammachi (Mata Amritanandamayi) With Love, GeorgeSon P.S. I too am considering a Bhakti Group alternative or heaven forbid do more Sadhana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 This is why I had the recommendation to have us periodically vote to elect a new moderator, so everything stays fresh and in line with the original intentions of this sacred group. Jai Maa! Surya - Ananthasree Ammachi Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:55 PM Re: Many Divine Mothers Namah Shivayah! Like Chitanand, I am also curious as to this phenomenon, as is evident by my last post. In Her, Ananthasree Ammachi, "leokomor" <leokomor wrote: > > Dear Sisters/Brothers in Amma: > > Om Namah Shivaya!!!! > > Peter White (Kandar) was the original > founding moderator prior to Keval. > > In Peter's welcoming text he set > firm guidelines. > > Guideline Number one PROHIBITS: > > "Any topics not related to the purpose > of this List or that have nothing > > to do with Ammachi;" > > he current moderator has seemingly > turned this group into a carbon copy > of the Amma Free Zone. > > If I am incorrect please explain > the difference between us and AFZ? > > If we have morphed into the AFZ > Did we ever vote on a structural revamping? > Just curious. > > With Love, > > GeorgeSon > (Chitanand) > > P.S. > > For Kandar's "Welcoming" text please click files > on the icon to the left. it is the first file. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Namah Shivayah, It is further disheartening to have to feel the need to defend our own fidelity to Amma as our sole Guru. Now, it seems that standing up in fidelity to Amma is being labeled not only "inability to be open"….but "fear" and "defensiveness" as well. WOW. WOW. WOW. (I do not remember who said any of these things specifically, I am just reading the posts and responding to the posts.) Of course some of us are defending our fidelity to Amma. Slapping the label "defensiveness" on that as if it were a negative thing seems inappropriate to me. Note that the word devotee means DEVOTED. When Amma says to see Her in everyone, I interpret this differently, apparently. I see the essence of her Love flowing through everyone and everything. That does not make me see every mahatma claiming to be God-ness as equal to Her. When she says not to confine her to that physical form....for me, this means that she is much greater than that form "Amma" that we see before us. She is God itself. When her body leaves, she is still that God that pervades the Universe. It does not mean that everyone can be my Guru, Guide, and Beloved in the same way Amma is. When Christ was on the earth, I wonder if his disciples ran around with other teachers because they saw him in everyone? I think if that were the case, the course of history might be slightly different. I make this comparison because Amma is right up there with Christ. Can one compare Krishna, Christ, Buddha etc. to, for example....Saint Theresa or the Apostle Paul? Certainly, the same sweet divinity exists in all of them...but those mentioned prior were God incarnate. This is how I see it. There does indeed exist a difference. I do not see the difference intellectually though. It has to be felt in the heart and the soul. This is the only way to know it without it being a simple comparison. The teachings of the Guru are subject to our own interpretations and can easily get twisted to suit our views. It happens all the time. Just look at the world. I guess we will never know who is right. I speak up again only because of the vehemence of emotion I feel when I feel that I have to defend my Love solely for Her. I almost want to say how dare you? How dare ANYONE assume that the lack of desire to accept other Guru's is coming from a place of fear? If one stands firm and decides not to cheat on her husband, is it because she is not open enough? Is it because she is afraid? Actually, I would venture to think that the one pointing the finger is the one who holds the most fear. And exactly what is it you are afraid of? Last year, Amma talked on the subject of other gurus and said, ""Does maximum number of lovers equal maximum love?" To reiterate where I stand, I think it is great if some seekers can gain insight and special experiences while in the presence of other Gurus and saints. I am not downing anyone for that. Why would I care what people choose to do in their personal spiritual path? My greatest dream in the world is to see everyone happy and filled with the light of God. The problem comes when those same people have the nerve to say that those who chose fidelity to Amma are somehow incapable of seeing Amma in everyone. It is a brave person who takes Amma's words and uses them in this way. Amma never said that she exists in every Guru out there giving darshan and that we should embrace them the same way we embrace Her. ASK AMMA. LISTEN TO AMMA. WATCH AMMA. If one wants to imbibe the essence of her teachings, we have to listen to her without putting it through the filter of our personality first. In Her, Ananthasree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Dear Ananthasree, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't intend the word "defensiveness" in a pejorative way. You've indicated some frustration in response to feeling as if you had to defend your love solely for Her. I understand that and also feel it's unfortunate that conditions are such that anyone feels she needs to justify feelings of fidelity or seeing- Mother-everywhere or whatever else in their relationship with Amma to anyone else here. Sincerely, Iswari Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree wrote: > > Namah Shivayah, > > It is further disheartening to have to feel the need to defend our own fidelity to Amma as > our sole Guru. Now, it seems that standing up in fidelity to Amma is being labeled not only > "inability to be open"….but "fear" and "defensiveness" as well. WOW. WOW. WOW.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Namah Shivaya, all, I wonder if it is a coincidence that all of the recent arguments about divine mothers, dharma, etc. have come up since the suggestion was made to ask Amma to say something to the list. Perhaps it is that this group has come under Her divine gaze and She is cranking up the rock-tumbler? If so, I don't know if people leaving the group in frustration is the "answer". But, who knows? May She bless us all with patience, compassion, and understanding. Om Amriteswaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Namah Shivayah Iswari, Indeed! I was just laughing a bit over how absurd it is that I am feeling the need to justify my fidelity to Amma...in an Amma group of all places. It IS unfortunate that it has gotten to this. However, it is impossible for me to sit back and not stand up for my convictions. I just really feel like how dare anyone have the werewithal to intimate that there is something spiritually inept about absolute fidelity to Amma. Jai Ma! Ananthasree Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari wrote: > > Dear Ananthasree, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't intend the word "defensiveness" in a > pejorative way. You've indicated some frustration in response to feeling as if you had to > defend your love solely for Her. I understand that and also feel it's unfortunate that > conditions are such that anyone feels she needs to justify feelings of fidelity or seeing- > Mother-everywhere or whatever else in their relationship with Amma to anyone else here. > > Sincerely, > Iswari > > Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree@> wrote: > > > > Namah Shivayah, > > > > It is further disheartening to have to feel the need to defend our own fidelity to Amma > as > > our sole Guru. Now, it seems that standing up in fidelity to Amma is being labeled not > only > > "inability to be open"….but "fear" and "defensiveness" as well. WOW. WOW. WOW.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Ananthasree and all, I was not at all seeking to cause anyone to feel that they have to defend their fidelity to Amma. I totally respect and honor that, and feel the same way myself, that Amma is my one and only Satguru. The ONLY difference that I can see in our feelings is that I have chosen to take the darshan of other masters. And I also should not have to defend my fidelity towards her because of that. I did not say that those who choose not to see other gurus are incapable of seeing Amma in everyone. Nor did I say that I am out there embracing every single person giving darshan in the same way I am embracing her. Please do not misunderstand and think that I have gone to anyone else for anything other than to offer my salutations and experience the peace of being in the presence of a mahatma. Should I be labeled as unfaithful for this? I am not sharing my experiences with other masters here, and I want you to know that I hold the highest respect and appreciation for your beautiful and poetic devotion. I also hold a great deal of respect for the sanctity of this satsang, and happily will abide by whatever guidelines or rules are put forth. The question I asked about one-pointedness vs. aversion was asked with innocence and sincerity, not in judgement. Please do not feel that I think myself to be correct in my view and you and others who share your feelings to be incorrect. I am truly perplexed by this subject, and many valid points have been raised. But I would never presume to discredit or invalidate your most honorable devotion and loyalty! I bow to you with all sincerity, and to all here who share these noble feelings. But please lets also not be pointing fingers at those of us here who choose differently. Please don't diminish the validity of our devotion because it looks different! In Amma's teachings we can see validation of BOTH sides of this issue. So perhaps what is "correct" for some is different from what is "correct" for others, and both sides may be correct for themselves as individuals? It pains me to know that you or anyone else here (myself included) has to defend their devotion to Amma, whom we all love more than life itself. I am so sorry if my questions or perspective has made anyone feel that I was challenging their open-mindedness or their understanding of Amma's teachings. That was never my intention. It is the pure devotion to Amma that drew me to this list and has nourished me over the years and I would never seek to question it. I really do love you and everyone here, and want you all to feel supported in your unique experience of being Amma's child. love, Prajna "Children, all of spirituality is contained in that one word: Awareness." - Amma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Namah Shivaya, Whether one decides to visit other spiritual masters is a totally individual thing. My own opinion is that it does not imply infidelity to Mother. Also, not wanting to have the darshan of other spiritual masters does not imply closed mindedness. I have been most uncomfortable being with other mahatmas, and later comfortable in it. It all had to do with my own inner struggle. I think what is more of an issue is whether it should be discussed on this list. I really enjoyed reading about Prajna's experience on the other list. In my opinion it all a matter of how it is done. Several years ago there was discussion on this list about another guru's alleged pedophilia that went on and on until the moderator intervened. Personally I found that discussion disturbing. But we all have different sensibilities. What to me is most important is that we all feel safe on this list. How that is achieved, I don't know. Again, we are all different and have different levels of tolerance for different things. Maybe it would be a good thing for Mother to participate on this list from time to time, if She had time and it was Her will. Or maybe we should all write as if we were writing to Her. I think that's what she would like us to do. After all, the ultimate goal is to see Her in everything. Jai Ma! Prasadini Prajna - Brianna wrote: > > Ananthasree and all, > > I was not at all seeking to cause anyone to feel that they have to > defend their fidelity to Amma. I totally respect and honor that, and > feel the same way myself, that Amma is my one and only Satguru. The > ONLY difference that I can see in our feelings is that I have chosen > to take the darshan of other masters. And I also should not have to > defend my fidelity towards her because of that. I did not say that > those who choose not to see other gurus are incapable of seeing Amma > in everyone. Nor did I say that I am out there embracing every single > person giving darshan in the same way I am embracing her. Please do > not misunderstand and think that I have gone to anyone else for > anything other than to offer my salutations and experience the peace > of being in the presence of a mahatma. Should I be labeled as > unfaithful for this? I am not sharing my experiences with other > masters here, and I want you to know that I hold the highest respect > and appreciation for your beautiful and > poetic devotion. I also hold a great deal of respect for the sanctity > of this satsang, and happily will abide by whatever guidelines or > rules are put forth. > > The question I asked about one-pointedness vs. aversion was asked with > innocence and sincerity, not in judgement. Please do not feel that I > think myself to be correct in my view and you and others who share > your feelings to be incorrect. I am truly perplexed by this subject, > and many valid points have been raised. But I would never presume to > discredit or invalidate your most honorable devotion and loyalty! I > bow to you with all sincerity, and to all here who share these noble > feelings. But please lets also not be pointing fingers at those of us > here who choose differently. Please don't diminish the validity of our > devotion because it looks different! In Amma's teachings we can see > validation of BOTH sides of this issue. So perhaps what is "correct" > for some is different from what is "correct" for others, and both > sides may be correct for themselves as individuals? > > It pains me to know that you or anyone else here (myself included) has > to defend their devotion to Amma, whom we all love more than life > itself. I am so sorry if my questions or perspective has made anyone > feel that I was challenging their open-mindedness or their > understanding of Amma's teachings. That was never my intention. It is > the pure devotion to Amma that drew me to this list and has nourished > me over the years and I would never seek to question it. I really do > love you and everyone here, and want you all to feel supported in your > unique experience of being Amma's child. > > love, > > Prajna > > "Children, all of spirituality is contained in that one word: > Awareness." - Amma > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Namah Shivayah, Dear sister Prajna, Please know that anything I had written or expressed was not in direct response to anything you expressed here. I was responding to the vibe, as a whole, that has been running rampant here. My last response came mainly from reading the following: "All of us agree on Amma being our main One, but I am sure if you spoke with Amma about Her inner experience, She would tell you that she speaks and works with other Saints, and Holders of Truth who are here to help our planet with its evolution. They commune on a whole different level than we do. Heart to heart, higher mind to higher mind." And I apologize, I cannot find who wrote it now and it doesn't really matter. This, and other parts of this post, touched me negatively, because I don't think any of us are qualified to speculate over what Amma might or might not say and then use that speculation to judge others whose beliefs might not be in harmony with that speculation or Amma's "presumed answer". The best we can do is go by what she has said already. I go by what she has said already....and even then, she is incomprehensible at times. I never meant to allude to anyone as unfaithful. If I have done so, I bow down to you and offer sincere apologies. I have only spoken for myself and how I feel about Amma and adhering to Her teachings. I cannot judge anothers path. Who has that right? Prajna wrote: "So perhaps what is "correct" for some is different from what is "correct" for others, and both sides may be correct for themselves as individuals?" I think you summed it up perfectly in the above statement. I also feel this way. No one, regardless of their view, should have to defend their fidelity to Amma. I also want to point out the thought that communicating about things of this nature via the typed word can get very tricky. It leaves room for all sorts of conflicts and misunderstandings. I get the impression that if we were all having this conversation in person...it would have ended a LOOOOONG time ago and we'd all be singing bhajans by now. It is so easy to misinterpret or OVER-interpret something. I know that I get confused sometimes in trying to intuit where someone is coming from with only the written word to guide me. There is no room for facial expressions or intonations and emphasis...so it leaves a lot of room for spiralling out of control as I see it doing now. Jai Jai Ma and Much Love! ~Ananthasree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 ***Smiles****. This also crossed my mind yesterday. Certainly feels a bit like Ma with her hand in the pot. Jai Mahakali! Ananthasree Ammachi, Laura Sylvis <laurasings wrote: > > Namah Shivaya, all, > > I wonder if it is a coincidence that all of the recent arguments > about divine mothers, dharma, etc. have come up since the suggestion > was made to ask Amma to say something to the list. Perhaps it is > that this group has come under Her divine gaze and She is cranking up > the rock-tumbler? > > If so, I don't know if people leaving the group in frustration is the > "answer". But, who knows? > > May She bless us all with patience, compassion, and understanding. > Om Amriteswaryai Namah! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Dear All, It is confusing to read of others on the list organizing to go see other Gurus and trying to connect via the Amma Satsang group to do this. I am not saying it's "wrong" to actually do this. I just don't think this is the right forum to organize it. Surely there are other forums for this. Adding many teachings and sayings of other gurus...is this really where we need it? I know there is some overlap at times, but sometimes there are whole diatribes on this. We are wanting more on AMMA. This is why we joined this particular group. (boy am I getting redundant or what? grin) The Catholic Church, from my own personal experience, does not bring in lots of other teachings from other practices. You also will not find that in other Satsangs for other gurus. It would be highly unusual. Like it was mentioned, I am not angry, defensive, fearful or any of the things said and discussed. (well maybe I am something of something said but don't know what! LOL..but not angry at all...) I am not trying to point any fingers at anyone. I cannot tell you who said what. That does not matter at all to me. Like others, it does not matter to me if someone feels the need to see 100 other Gurus or teachers. I am not faulting anyone and I think many of us have pointed that out. We are simply saying as simply as possible, can't we keep this particular list focused on Amma? That is all, really. Reading how much others see this guru or that and what they learned there...well, I find it confusing to keep reading so much of it on here. I keep thinking...what about some stuff on Amma.....that is all I crave..... This is the for discussion of AMMA. Can we do that as much as possible? As far as spiritual practices, I cannot stress enough how valuable IAM meditation is. If you have not taken the course, take it! I took my Amma doll on vacation this year to Canada. My mom and sister got used to having Amma sitting with us and going around in my carryon bag with Her Head sticking out to see. Please forgive me if I sound harsh in any way. It is not my intention. in Amma, adriane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Om Amriteshwaryai Namaha, I'm reading a book now about some Sri Ramakrishna monks, and even they themselves have their own disagreements and differing views. Namaha Shivaya! Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree wrote: > > Namah Shivayah Iswari, > > Indeed! I was just laughing a bit over how absurd it is that I am feeling the need to justify > my fidelity to Amma...in an Amma group of all places. It IS unfortunate that it has gotten > to this. However, it is impossible for me to sit back and not stand up for my convictions. I > just really feel like how dare anyone have the werewithal to intimate that there is > something spiritually inept about absolute fidelity to Amma. > > Jai Ma! > > Ananthasree > > > Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ananthasree, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't intend the word "defensiveness" in > a > > pejorative way. You've indicated some frustration in response to feeling as if you had to > > defend your love solely for Her. I understand that and also feel it's unfortunate that > > conditions are such that anyone feels she needs to justify feelings of fidelity or seeing- > > Mother-everywhere or whatever else in their relationship with Amma to anyone else > here. > > > > Sincerely, > > Iswari > > > > Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree@> wrote: > > > > > > Namah Shivayah, > > > > > > It is further disheartening to have to feel the need to defend our own fidelity to Amma > > as > > > our sole Guru. Now, it seems that standing up in fidelity to Amma is being labeled not > > only > > > "inability to be open"….but "fear" and "defensiveness" as well. WOW. WOW. WOW.... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Namah Shivayah. I am right there with everything Adriane said. Additionally, the person who should have the last word on this is AMMA. None of us are qualified to come to a definitive conclusion to these arguments. Maybe she will give us an answer. Until then, what is the point of us continuing with the subject? There are many things to talk about. How about an Ammachi Speech-Free Zone? ) Jai Ma! Ananthasree Ammachi, "Adriane Bradley" <a1driane wrote: > > Dear All, > It is confusing to read of others on the list organizing to go see other Gurus and trying to connect via the Amma Satsang group to do this. I am not saying it's "wrong" to actually do this. I just don't think this is the right forum to organize it.. Surely there are other forums for this. > > Adding many teachings and sayings of other gurus...is this really where we need it? I know there is some overlap at times, but sometimes there are whole diatribes on this. We are wanting more on AMMA. This is why we joined this particular group. (boy am I getting redundant or what? grin) The Catholic Church, from my own personal experience, does not bring in lots of other teachings from other practices. You also will not find that in other Satsangs for other gurus. It would be highly unusual. > > Like it was mentioned, I am not angry, defensive, fearful or any of the things said and discussed. (well maybe I am something of something said but don't know what! LOL..but not angry at all...) I am not trying to point any fingers at anyone. I cannot tell you who said what. That does not matter at all to me. Like others, it does not matter to me if someone feels the need to see 100 other Gurus or teachers. I am not faulting anyone and I think many of us have pointed that out. We are simply saying as simply as possible, can't we keep this particular list focused on Amma? That is all, really. Reading how much others see this guru or that and what they learned there...well, I find it confusing to keep reading so much of it on here. I keep thinking...what about some stuff on Amma.....that is all I crave..... > > This is the for discussion of AMMA. Can we do that as much as possible? > > As far as spiritual practices, I cannot stress enough how valuable IAM meditation is. If you have not taken the course, take it! > > I took my Amma doll on vacation this year to Canada. My mom and sister got used to having Amma sitting with us and going around in my carryon bag with Her Head sticking out to see. > > Please forgive me if I sound harsh in any way. It is not my intention. > > in Amma, > adriane > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 I don't know if this comment is relevant but I remember a quote coming I think from Swami P. He may have been quoting Amma but I'm not sure. The quote is "If you put all the Masters in a room together they would agree on everything. If you put all the devotees in a room together they would agree on nothing". Chocatane - otoma Ammachi Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:13 AM Re: Many Divine Mothers Om Amriteshwaryai Namaha, I'm reading a book now about some Sri Ramakrishna monks, and even they themselves have their own disagreements and differing views. Namaha Shivaya! Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree wrote: > > Namah Shivayah Iswari, > > Indeed! I was just laughing a bit over how absurd it is that I am feeling the need to justify > my fidelity to Amma...in an Amma group of all places. It IS unfortunate that it has gotten > to this. However, it is impossible for me to sit back and not stand up for my convictions. I > just really feel like how dare anyone have the werewithal to intimate that there is > something spiritually inept about absolute fidelity to Amma. > > Jai Ma! > > Ananthasree > > > Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ananthasree, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't intend the word "defensiveness" in > a > > pejorative way. You've indicated some frustration in response to feeling as if you had to > > defend your love solely for Her. I understand that and also feel it's unfortunate that > > conditions are such that anyone feels she needs to justify feelings of fidelity or seeing- > > Mother-everywhere or whatever else in their relationship with Amma to anyone else > here. > > > > Sincerely, > > Iswari > > > > Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ananthasree@> wrote: > > > > > > Namah Shivayah, > > > > > > It is further disheartening to have to feel the need to defend our own fidelity to Amma > > as > > > our sole Guru. Now, it seems that standing up in fidelity to Amma is being labeled not > > only > > > "inability to be open"..but "fear" and "defensiveness" as well. WOW. WOW. WOW.... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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