Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Om Namah Shivaya: This bewildered Son started the thread by giving an account of a very isolated area involving noise. Last Saturday night a child was babbling loudly during ARATI! The child was not in need of going to the restroom or any such matter. The child (cute and loveable) was just talking seeming triviality about this and that. The child continued to babble LOUDLY during the silent Group Prayer portion of the program where everyone in silence prays to their higher power for the benefit of those sick and suffering etc. I was trying to focus on the names being read and put their names forward to Ammas lap for Her protection. The mind usually can only think about one thing at a given time. Took some effort in the original post to state that I do not object to childrens noise or frivolity at ANY other points in the program at M.A. Center. When Amma comes to us from afar to the US loud noise (may also seem inappropriate when She meditates with us at 10:00 am Please note that noise at these moments more often come from Adults (and they are not always Newcomers) Last Saturday the parent not only did not shoosh the child but he kept conversing with the child in the same loud tone in the middle of Arati and Group Prayer seemingly oblivious to the need for respectful introspection. The cute and adoreale child is not the issure for me. It is felt that thhe Parent had a responsibility to respect Amma, Her Devotees and the place eg a Temple conducting group prayer at a particular "sacred" moment in time. Is this too restrictive? Could he not go to the back of the hall and como back after Group Prayer/Arati? Does banter over-ride Group Prayer? IMHO Let the children scream at the top of their lungs during a Swami's satsang and I can cope. IMHO Let a child scream during bhajans and I do not blink an eye. However Arati is the time when Amma is being worshipped by the entire Hall in sacred unison. This applies to all religions during certain unity enhancing moments of a Service. In Judaism there is a ceremony where all those who have lost a relative stand up and the congregation prays with them. This is not exclusive Catholic orthodoxy (as one of you opined). It is perhaps a lack of Shraddha within the context of sensitivity. Why have the Group Prayer ceremony at all on Saturday nights if the parent thinks he can have a boisterous rap session during Group Silent Prayer. This goes to two adults as well. For me it is not children at issue it is the sanctity of certain key moments where silence is generallyconducive to Prayer/Meditation/Introspection. Please realize I was being extremely specific as to proper time and proper place. One does not bring in a boombox and blast gangsta hip hop at a funeral does one? Does a judge allow noisy talk in the gallery during a federal criminal trial? Why not allow Adults/Children to speak loudly when Amma give a talk? During a question and answer (where some hang on every word and take notes) why not have five adults scream and yell. Everything goes? Too bad if you cannot hear Amma. Never made any comment about child discipline methodology. That is not my area of expertise. No comment. Please close your eyes Amarnath. Now imagine Amma is there and Arati is being performed. Can you endorse loud noises at that time? Amarnath please imagine you are doing the group Meditation with Big Swami. Is it okay for loud talking between Parent and Child one row behind you? Surely one can practice detachment and tune it out. But most of us (myself certainly) are beginners at Sadhana. I have not been to Amritapuri. Does Amma condone loud talking during Arati there? Why should a devotee who saved all year and travelled thousands of miles, (renting cars and hotel if like me is of moderate to low financial means) have to endure a shrill coninuous distraction when She/He has looked forward for in some cases decades to enjoying a silent Bond during Arati? As always this is just an opinion. Devotees may differ and I bow down to your contrary viewpoints. Namah Shivaya GeorgeSon Chitanand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Dear Chitanand, Namah Shivaya, I agree with you, that during arati & group prayer, it's good to have the environment quiet. One reason would be for the recipients of our prayers. I feel that energy is more easily focussed towards the prayers, when the mind is not distracted by outside noises. I've felt that the people for whom I prayed during this time at the MA Center, have not received my proper attention at times, when loud noises disrupted my concentration. It's not for the sake of those of us praying, but for those for whom we are praying. The arati & prayer only lasts maybe 10 minutes? I don't think 10 minutes of quietness is unreasonable, & it shouldn't hinder a child's spiritual needs being met. Some kids may have troubles staying quiet for 10 minutes, so maybe that would be a good time for a childrens' program. I commented about being raised in a quiet Catholic church, but didn't intend to infer that that is the only religion that practices this disciplne. Regarding discipline, that's the subject of The Blessed Life's chapter on how to be successful. It said we need discipline to grow spiritually. Today I read some of it to the clients at the day rehab where I work, since it seems applicable to recovery. Sweta GeorgeSon <leokomor > wrote: Om Namah Shivaya: This bewildered Son started the thread by giving an account of a very isolated area involving noise..... The child continued to babble LOUDLY during the silent Group Prayer portion of the program.... .... I was trying to focus on the names being read and put their names forward to Ammas lap for Her protection. The mind usually can only think about one thing at a given time. ....In Judaism there is a ceremony where all those who have lost a relative stand up and the congregation prays with them. This is not exclusive Catholic orthodoxy (as one of you opined). It is perhaps a lack of Shraddha within the context of sensitivity. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 namaste chitanand, let me just say that i am not against desires and efforts to create quiet and comfortable meditative environments. but after all is said and done and we find ourselves in an uncomfortable and/or noisy situation, what to do? perhaps, practice accepting everything that happens in Amma's Presence as Amma's Prasad? perhaps, realizing that thoughts( especialy wanting things to be different than what they are at the moment ) are the obstacles to our Inner Silent Amma who is always present. perhaps, touching the inner silence will make clear what our response should be. Amma Bless, amarnath Ammachi, GeorgeSon <leokomor wrote: > > Om Namah Shivaya: > > This bewildered Son started the > thread by giving an account of a > very isolated area involving noise. > > Last Saturday night a child was > babbling loudly during ARATI! > > The child was not in need > of going to the restroom or any > such matter. The child (cute and loveable) > was just talking seeming triviality > about this and that. > > The child continued to babble LOUDLY > during the silent > Group Prayer portion of the program > where everyone in silence prays to > their higher power for the benefit > of those sick and suffering etc. > > I was trying to focus on the names being read > and put their names forward to Ammas > lap for Her protection. The mind > usually can only think about one > thing at a given time. > > Took some effort in the original > post to state that I do > not object to childrens noise or > frivolity at ANY other points > in the program at M.A. Center. > > When Amma comes to us from afar to > the US loud noise (may also seem > inappropriate when She meditates with us > at 10:00 am > > Please note that noise at these moments > more often come from Adults (and they are > not always Newcomers) > > Last Saturday the parent not only > did not shoosh the child but he kept > conversing with the child in the > same loud tone in the middle of Arati > and Group Prayer seemingly oblivious to > the need for respectful introspection. > > The cute and adoreale child is not > the issure for me. It is felt that > thhe Parent had a responsibility > to respect Amma, Her Devotees and the place eg > a Temple conducting group prayer at > a particular "sacred" moment > in time. Is this too restrictive? > > Could he not go to the back of > the hall and como back after Group > Prayer/Arati? Does banter > over-ride Group Prayer? > > IMHO Let the children scream at > the top of their > lungs during a Swami's satsang > and I can cope. IMHO Let a child > scream during bhajans and I do not blink > an eye. > > However Arati is the time > when Amma is being worshipped by the > entire Hall in sacred unison. > This applies to all religions during > certain unity enhancing moments of a > Service. In Judaism there is a > ceremony where all those who have lost > a relative stand up and the congregation > prays with them. This is not exclusive Catholic > orthodoxy (as one of you opined). It is perhaps a > lack of Shraddha within the context of sensitivity. > > Why have the Group Prayer ceremony > at all on Saturday nights if > the parent thinks he can have > a boisterous rap session during > Group Silent Prayer. This goes to > two adults as well. For me it > is not children at issue it is > the sanctity of certain key moments > where silence is generallyconducive > to Prayer/Meditation/Introspection. > > Please realize I was being > extremely specific > as to proper time and proper > place. One does not bring in > a boombox and blast gangsta hip > hop at a funeral does one? Does > a judge allow noisy talk in the gallery > during a federal criminal trial? > Why not allow Adults/Children to speak > loudly when Amma give a talk? During a > question and answer (where some hang on > every word and take notes) why not have five > adults scream and yell. Everything goes? > Too bad if you cannot hear Amma. > > Never made any comment about > child discipline methodology. That is not my > area of expertise. No comment. > > Please close your eyes Amarnath. > Now imagine Amma is there and Arati is being > performed. > > Can you endorse loud noises at > that time? > > Amarnath please imagine you are > doing the group Meditation with Big Swami. > Is it okay for loud talking between Parent > and Child one row behind you? > > Surely one can practice detachment > and tune it out. But most of us (myself > certainly) are beginners at Sadhana. > > I have not been to Amritapuri. Does > Amma condone loud talking during Arati there? > > Why should a devotee who saved > all year and travelled thousands of > miles, (renting cars and hotel if like me > is of moderate to low financial means) have to > endure a shrill coninuous distraction when She/He > has looked forward for in some cases decades > to enjoying a silent Bond during Arati? > > As always this is just an opinion. > Devotees may differ and I bow down to your > contrary viewpoints. > > Namah Shivaya > > GeorgeSon > Chitanand > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I usually just take my kids outside , I feel sorry not be able to attend many satsangs just for this reason alone. (( joanna > > namaste chitanand, > > let me just say that i am not against desires and efforts > to create quiet and comfortable meditative environments. > > but after all is said and done and we find ourselves in an > uncomfortable and/or noisy situation, what to do? > > perhaps, practice accepting everything that happens in Amma's > Presence as Amma's Prasad? > > perhaps, realizing that thoughts( especialy wanting things to be > different than what they are at the moment ) are the obstacles > to our Inner Silent Amma who is always present. > > perhaps, touching the inner silence will make clear what our > response should be. > > Amma Bless, > amarnath > > Ammachi, GeorgeSon <leokomor@> wrote: > > > > Om Namah Shivaya: > > > > This bewildered Son started the > > thread by giving an account of a > > very isolated area involving noise. > > > > Last Saturday night a child was > > babbling loudly during ARATI! > > > > The child was not in need > > of going to the restroom or any > > such matter. The child (cute and loveable) > > was just talking seeming triviality > > about this and that. > > > > The child continued to babble LOUDLY > > during the silent > > Group Prayer portion of the program > > where everyone in silence prays to > > their higher power for the benefit > > of those sick and suffering etc. > > > > I was trying to focus on the names being read > > and put their names forward to Ammas > > lap for Her protection. The mind > > usually can only think about one > > thing at a given time. > > > > Took some effort in the original > > post to state that I do > > not object to childrens noise or > > frivolity at ANY other points > > in the program at M.A. Center. > > > > When Amma comes to us from afar to > > the US loud noise (may also seem > > inappropriate when She meditates with us > > at 10:00 am > > > > Please note that noise at these moments > > more often come from Adults (and they are > > not always Newcomers) > > > > Last Saturday the parent not only > > did not shoosh the child but he kept > > conversing with the child in the > > same loud tone in the middle of Arati > > and Group Prayer seemingly oblivious to > > the need for respectful introspection. > > > > The cute and adoreale child is not > > the issure for me. It is felt that > > thhe Parent had a responsibility > > to respect Amma, Her Devotees and the place eg > > a Temple conducting group prayer at > > a particular "sacred" moment > > in time. Is this too restrictive? > > > > Could he not go to the back of > > the hall and como back after Group > > Prayer/Arati? Does banter > > over-ride Group Prayer? > > > > IMHO Let the children scream at > > the top of their > > lungs during a Swami's satsang > > and I can cope. IMHO Let a child > > scream during bhajans and I do not blink > > an eye. > > > > However Arati is the time > > when Amma is being worshipped by the > > entire Hall in sacred unison. > > This applies to all religions during > > certain unity enhancing moments of a > > Service. In Judaism there is a > > ceremony where all those who have lost > > a relative stand up and the congregation > > prays with them. This is not exclusive Catholic > > orthodoxy (as one of you opined). It is perhaps a > > lack of Shraddha within the context of sensitivity. > > > > Why have the Group Prayer ceremony > > at all on Saturday nights if > > the parent thinks he can have > > a boisterous rap session during > > Group Silent Prayer. This goes to > > two adults as well. For me it > > is not children at issue it is > > the sanctity of certain key moments > > where silence is generallyconducive > > to Prayer/Meditation/Introspection. > > > > Please realize I was being > > extremely specific > > as to proper time and proper > > place. One does not bring in > > a boombox and blast gangsta hip > > hop at a funeral does one? Does > > a judge allow noisy talk in the gallery > > during a federal criminal trial? > > Why not allow Adults/Children to speak > > loudly when Amma give a talk? During a > > question and answer (where some hang on > > every word and take notes) why not have five > > adults scream and yell. Everything goes? > > Too bad if you cannot hear Amma. > > > > Never made any comment about > > child discipline methodology. That is not my > > area of expertise. No comment. > > > > Please close your eyes Amarnath. > > Now imagine Amma is there and Arati is being > > performed. > > > > Can you endorse loud noises at > > that time? > > > > Amarnath please imagine you are > > doing the group Meditation with Big Swami. > > Is it okay for loud talking between Parent > > and Child one row behind you? > > > > Surely one can practice detachment > > and tune it out. But most of us (myself > > certainly) are beginners at Sadhana. > > > > I have not been to Amritapuri. Does > > Amma condone loud talking during Arati there? > > > > Why should a devotee who saved > > all year and travelled thousands of > > miles, (renting cars and hotel if like me > > is of moderate to low financial means) have to > > endure a shrill coninuous distraction when She/He > > has looked forward for in some cases decades > > to enjoying a silent Bond during Arati? > > > > As always this is just an opinion. > > Devotees may differ and I bow down to your > > contrary viewpoints. > > > > Namah Shivaya > > > > GeorgeSon > > Chitanand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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