Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 This is such an interesting subject. I too am very easily distracted by noise and children. I came to the realization some time ago that I too was wanting quiet and respect from the children who come to the ashram. As a child, I was in the 'BE SEEN AND NOT HEARD' generation of parenting, so I was always punished for being free and making noise. When undisciplined children especially are acting up, I used to try and scold/shush them. And of course the parents would yell at me and automatically defend the children in their disruptive behaviors. There are a few things going on for me. One is that I too came up in catholic church where quiet was demanded and enforced. So I have that expectation of quiet, respect, prayerful mode. What I learned is that children have a different way of worshiping which includes feeling free, playing, communicating, running, etc. I too think shakti affects them. They are just being themselves. So then the question becomes how do I deal with their worship and their joy and boundless energy. Right now, I just run away. When there are more than three or four kids at satsang, I just tune it out as much as I can and then if I want to scold them or if I get upset I just leave. I am striving to get to a place where it doesn't matter. I don't see any other solution. Kids are going to be kids. I have seen things broken and ruined at the ashram, things disappear, things get dirty, etc. I guess this is just life. Om Namashivaya - In Amma's service, Supriti Omenka Nnadi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 This discussion reminds me of my grandmother's funeral, which was attended by about 50-75 persons. My niece was only 3 1/2 months old at the time, and the only great-grandchild present. Out of courtesy and respect for traditions in the Church, my sister and her husband and the baby sat in the back, in the family section, behind glass. The priest, who was among the most loving Roman Catholic pastors I have met in a long time, motioned for them to come into the main sancturary, and when they looked confused about it, he walked off the altar and brought them forward to sit with the rest of us. He said, it is important to remember that life goes on, it is important to celebrate and cherish the young, her cries are as precious as the rest of the crying and weeping going on. (The baby was actually rather peaceful.) Although I sympathize with the frustration of falling into a meditation and being disturbed by an external noise, there are also so many times when a child cries out "Amma" or something else that is just so perfectly perfect. Moreover, in this whole "watching" mode that Chris Keniley was discussing a few times vis a vis how we "look" at Amma's actions -- I am always very amazed by the childcare sevites who organize such exuberant energy into beautiful dramas and dances for us, and when the children bring Amma the arts and crafts they have made, and especially when a whole flock of little ones surround Mother on Her peetham on stage. They have so much innocence and pure love, it is inspiring to be a witness to their affectionate way of relating to Amma. I feel like I have so much to learn from kids' attitudes toward life. Thanks also, Prajna, for very eloquently and passionately explaining the circumstances around your stepdaughter's situation. Sammy is lucky to have all three of her mothers looking out for her! loveprashanti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 I enjoy hearing children play, and am prepared for a certain amount of movement and noise. The cries of children are a natural part of a community, but if a baby is bawling during Arati, then it is the responsibility of the parent to take it outside, as a matter of consideration for the rest of the congregation. When this doesn't happen, i let it go and use it as an occasion to practice dispassion and deepen concentration. It's the Weather of that day, each satsang being different. As for older kids, i see cultural and class differences in the way children's disruptions are handled. I've seen American Indian kids of very young ages being calm and quiet within an expectation by their elders that they are capable of doing so. Every moment is a teaching moment seems to be part of the practice. In other cases, there are parents who see no limit to what Their Children can be permitted. I don't fault the kids, but the parents, the ones who are overindulgent and don't teach their children respect. Thinking whatever their children do is fine, without realizing it is possible, by the end of toddlerhood anyway, to remind them to keep it down or take it out to the patio areas. These are the same people who would be offended if someone else gently intervened. Where i come from it is OK for any adult to inoffensively calm or redirect out-bounds-wildness, as a natural thing within a community. But i agree with those who have pointed out that a great many adults don't know how to behave, and here i'm thinking of the tours. What has always amazed me at the Saturday satsangs is how after the chanting of the last verses, which are so moving and like a climax of the devotion that has been offered up, people immediately begin talking and moving around instead of drinking up the energy in a meditative bhava. It goes from silence to a roar within a minute or two. It doesn't really bother me, but it would be nice to sit in the Silence for a little while, one of these days. Max >When undisciplined children especially are acting up, I used to try >and scold/shush them. And of course the parents would yell at me and >automatically defend the children in their disruptive behaviors. -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Women in Global Perspective http://www.suppressedhistories.net New poster: Our Reproductive Rights! http://www.maxdashu.net/shamanic/reprorights.html Beautiful, multi-issue, empowering 11 x 17 laser print Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 As a child, I was in the 'BE SEEN AND NOT > HEARD' generation of parenting, so I was always > punished for being free and making noise. > > When undisciplined children especially are acting > up, I used to try and scold/shush them. And of > course the parents would yell at me and > automatically defend the children in their > disruptive behaviors. > Not to mention the new-agey moms and dads who won't put their little darlings on Ritalin despite obvious signs of ADD/ADHD. Parenting sure ain't what it used to be in the good old 1950s. Bring back "spare the rod and spoil the child"! Teach your children obedience and respect for authority. Open palm. Hair brush. Stick or strap. Have you spanked your kid today? Keval (never parented a child, and don't intend to ever in this lifetime) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 You are messed up! Obviously you have not parented a child and your parents didn't do that nice of a job either. Its probably a good thing that you are not a parent. Teach kids through love and non-violent discipline. All the other creates is trauma. I've been reading these posts with amazement. I'll make my full comments when I get some time. Pranams, Surya A proud parent of 2 (I never wanted to be a parent either, but karma and lila dictated otherwise. Best thing that ever happen to me, next to Amma) - Mike Brooker Ammachi Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:47 PM Re: Boundaries at Public Settings As a child, I was in the 'BE SEEN AND NOT > HEARD' generation of parenting, so I was always > punished for being free and making noise. > > When undisciplined children especially are acting > up, I used to try and scold/shush them. And of > course the parents would yell at me and > automatically defend the children in their > disruptive behaviors. > Not to mention the new-agey moms and dads who won't put their little darlings on Ritalin despite obvious signs of ADD/ADHD. Parenting sure ain't what it used to be in the good old 1950s. Bring back "spare the rod and spoil the child"! Teach your children obedience and respect for authority. Open palm. Hair brush. Stick or strap. Have you spanked your kid today? Keval (never parented a child, and don't intend to ever in this lifetime) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Namah Shivaya Surya, With all due respect, I hope you were kidding when you wrote the comments below. Not very respectful. Jai Ma! Prasadini Mahamuni Das wrote: > > You are messed up! > > Obviously you have not parented a child and your parents didn't do > that nice of a job either. Its probably a good thing that you are not > a parent. > > Teach kids through love and non-violent discipline. All the other > creates is trauma. > > I've been reading these posts with amazement. I'll make my full > comments when I get some time. > > Pranams, > > Surya > A proud parent of 2 > (I never wanted to be a parent either, but karma and lila dictated > otherwise. Best thing that ever happen to me, next to Amma) > > - > Mike Brooker > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:47 PM > Re: Boundaries at Public Settings > > As a child, I was in the 'BE SEEN AND NOT > > HEARD' generation of parenting, so I was always > > punished for being free and making noise. > > > > When undisciplined children especially are acting > > up, I used to try and scold/shush them. And of > > course the parents would yell at me and > > automatically defend the children in their > > disruptive behaviors. > > > > Not to mention the new-agey moms and dads who won't > put their little darlings on Ritalin despite obvious > signs of ADD/ADHD. Parenting sure ain't what it used > to be in the good old 1950s. Bring back "spare the > rod and spoil the child"! Teach your children > obedience and respect for authority. Open palm. Hair > brush. Stick or strap. Have you spanked your kid > today? > > Keval > (never parented a child, and don't intend to ever in > this lifetime) > > > > > <> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I was not kidding. I have NO respect for someone, who is not even a parent, speaking on this holy forum about taking a stick, brush, strap or hand to an innocent child. Discipline is absolutely necessary, but violence is not. All violence does is help to propagate more violence. If you hit your kids, there is a much higher likelihood that they will hit theirs. If he wants to have his opinion, however sick I may think it or however much I disagree with it, he is entitled. But why express it here? What does it have to do with Amma? Has Amma once recommended such things? Absolutely not! Jai Maa! Surya - Michele Doane Greenstein Ammachi Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:24 PM Re: Boundaries at Public Settings Namah Shivaya Surya, With all due respect, I hope you were kidding when you wrote the comments below. Not very respectful. Jai Ma! Prasadini Mahamuni Das wrote: > > You are messed up! > > Obviously you have not parented a child and your parents didn't do > that nice of a job either. Its probably a good thing that you are not > a parent. > > Teach kids through love and non-violent discipline. All the other > creates is trauma. > > I've been reading these posts with amazement. I'll make my full > comments when I get some time. > > Pranams, > > Surya > A proud parent of 2 > (I never wanted to be a parent either, but karma and lila dictated > otherwise. Best thing that ever happen to me, next to Amma) > > - > Mike Brooker > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:47 PM > Re: Boundaries at Public Settings > > As a child, I was in the 'BE SEEN AND NOT > > HEARD' generation of parenting, so I was always > > punished for being free and making noise. > > > > When undisciplined children especially are acting > > up, I used to try and scold/shush them. And of > > course the parents would yell at me and > > automatically defend the children in their > > disruptive behaviors. > > > > Not to mention the new-agey moms and dads who won't > put their little darlings on Ritalin despite obvious > signs of ADD/ADHD. Parenting sure ain't what it used > to be in the good old 1950s. Bring back "spare the > rod and spoil the child"! Teach your children > obedience and respect for authority. Open palm. Hair > brush. Stick or strap. Have you spanked your kid > today? > > Keval > (never parented a child, and don't intend to ever in > this lifetime) > > > > > <> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I'm not an advocate of violence of any kind either, and I'm sure Keval can fight his own battles, but I have seen your sharp tongue too many times. Your remarks were most unkind to him - and why insult his parents to boot? I swear, this list is a snakepit. I have never seen such sniping and flaming. And this is supposed to be a "spiritual" list? The kind of communication that has been going on lately is intolerable. Mahamuni Das wrote: > > I was not kidding. I have NO respect for someone, who is not even a > parent, speaking on this holy forum about taking a stick, brush, strap > or hand to an innocent child. Discipline is absolutely necessary, but > violence is not. All violence does is help to propagate more violence. > If you hit your kids, there is a much higher likelihood that they will > hit theirs. > > If he wants to have his opinion, however sick I may think it or > however much I disagree with it, he is entitled. But why express it > here? What does it have to do with Amma? Has Amma once recommended > such things? Absolutely not! > > Jai Maa! > > Surya > - > Michele Doane Greenstein > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:24 PM > Re: Boundaries at Public Settings > > Namah Shivaya Surya, > With all due respect, I hope you were kidding when you wrote the > comments below. Not very respectful. > Jai Ma! > Prasadini > > Mahamuni Das wrote: > > > > You are messed up! > > > > Obviously you have not parented a child and your parents didn't do > > that nice of a job either. Its probably a good thing that you are not > > a parent. > > > > Teach kids through love and non-violent discipline. All the other > > creates is trauma. > > > > I've been reading these posts with amazement. I'll make my full > > comments when I get some time. > > > > Pranams, > > > > Surya > > A proud parent of 2 > > (I never wanted to be a parent either, but karma and lila dictated > > otherwise. Best thing that ever happen to me, next to Amma) > > > > - > > Mike Brooker > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:47 PM > > Re: Boundaries at Public Settings > > > > As a child, I was in the 'BE SEEN AND NOT > > > HEARD' generation of parenting, so I was always > > > punished for being free and making noise. > > > > > > When undisciplined children especially are acting > > > up, I used to try and scold/shush them. And of > > > course the parents would yell at me and > > > automatically defend the children in their > > > disruptive behaviors. > > > > > > > Not to mention the new-agey moms and dads who won't > > put their little darlings on Ritalin despite obvious > > signs of ADD/ADHD. Parenting sure ain't what it used > > to be in the good old 1950s. Bring back "spare the > > rod and spoil the child"! Teach your children > > obedience and respect for authority. Open palm. Hair > > brush. Stick or strap. Have you spanked your kid > > today? > > > > Keval > > (never parented a child, and don't intend to ever in > > this lifetime) > > > > > > > > > > <> < > <>> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I agree. Also, beatings do not result in good behavior. I've seen kids who are hit and verbally abused who are out of control. And on the other hand, kids who have never had a hand laid on them in violence, not even a slap, who respond readily to a look or a word. Respect, as opposed to unlimited indulgence, is key. Max >Discipline is absolutely necessary, but violence is not. All >violence does is help to propagate more violence. If you hit your >kids, there is a much higher likelihood that they will hit theirs. -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives Women in Global Perspective http://www.suppressedhistories.net New poster: Our Reproductive Rights! http://www.maxdashu.net/shamanic/reprorights.html Beautiful, multi-issue, empowering 11 x 17 laser print Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I was brought up so strictly, yes Roman Catholic, I was afraid to blink! So I love to see the children at programs and satsangs. This year at the Boston Program parents were advised - I think there were signs or pamphlets that mentioned this - to take their children out to the side if they were crying etc during arati or meditation and it seems to have helped a lot. But other than those times I'm glad the children are free for the most part. The adults, and not necessarily their parents, are the ones who are too much for me at times. > As a child, I was in the 'BE SEEN AND NOT > > HEARD' generation of parenting, so I was always > > punished for being free and making noise. LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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