Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 I'm not in a position to comment on Dayamrita or the DC satsang, but this is a good point. Iswari Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull wrote: > > I'm not disagreeing about Amma's teachings. The same is taught in > Sai groups and is common in Catholic monastic tradition, sometimes > referred to as being "tossed into a rock tumbler", where everyone > rubs against eachother to become smooth and polished. > > Unfortunately, the same teaching is used in destructive cults to > manipulate folks into staying. You see, a principle is Inherently > neither good or bad (i.e. gravity, creation, heat, etc.) but in the > way it's used. So please don't turn off your "Light of Awareness" > by using Amma's teachings in an Absolute fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Om Namah Shivaya Amma's satsang groups are what they are ....and do what they feel they should do...It would be rude to push them to do something they aren't accustomed to or don't want to do. On the other hand, group pujas, akanda bhajans, groups chants for peace could be organized outside of satsang, if you had that type of leadereship ability. I have, though noted the numerous insulting comments about others in your posts, and personally, I don't see that as a sign of leadership. Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull wrote: > > I'm not disagreeing about Amma's teachings. The same is taught in > Sai groups and is common in Catholic monastic tradition, sometimes > referred to as being "tossed into a rock tumbler", where everyone > rubs against eachother to become smooth and polished. > > Unfortunately, the same teaching is used in destructive cults to > manipulate folks into staying. You see, a principle is Inherently > neither good or bad (i.e. gravity, creation, heat, etc.) but in the > way it's used. So please don't turn off your "Light of Awareness" > by using Amma's teachings in an Absolute fashion. > > In my opinion, what you're saying is very much being abused by the > local satsang here, creating a cult-like manipulative atmosphere, and > giving those who've stayed on, a Subtle Sense of > Specialness (ego fertilizer) and false pride, and a sense of > Infallibility. Another problem is politics: Don't do anything > unless officially ordered to do so, then you can blame the order- > giver/boss for any mistakes, "I'm just doing my job". This is why > there's no large LS chanting being done, since there's no directive > from Swamiji D to do so. ("Suggestions" from either lower or higher > folks don't count, since it still puts the responsibility on the > locals, rather than an appointed robed man). Personally, I don't > think D has the balls to give the word to hold large chanting events > (universal like the atma/devi puja), and even then chances are that > the events held in DC would be as ineffective as the pathetic local > satsangs, considering the Ignoring of "Essential Sadhana Details". > > You see, if you compare the "talk" of Dayamrita and myself, surely > Dayamrita beats me. If you compare actions, I beat him. (When using > the gunas as the benchmark, rather than an Amma quote debate or > intuition or robe color.) > > tom > > > Ammachi, "Mahamuni Das" <mahamuni@> wrote: > > > > Let me just clarify what I said regarding what Mother regularly > says. She calls Her ashrams Kurukshetra--the battlefield in the > Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata. She says that She takes the rough, > jagged edges of Her devotees and grinds them together to make smooth > stones. > > (snipped) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 I would say that this is well said. Not saying this to gang up on you Tom. Many great teachings have the potential to be twisted and abused. That has nothing to do with their greatness. It is an unfortunate quandry. It would be most productive for you and your local satsang, if you would stop taking everyone else's inventory and stop insulting everyone. Why not lead by example instead? There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop you and any size group of people from chanting the LSN, LSS, Shanti Mantras, or anything else. You could certainly start small with just a few people and after they can tell others about their experience and how great it was. Then the group will grow. I am sure that Dayamrita would not object to this either. We certainly do it here in San Diego this way. It manifests in a variety of ways. But when you spend so much energy insulting people, you certainly can't blame them for not being too open or trusting towards you and your ideas. When you use terms like "pathetic", how do you expect people to be receptive to you? Why waste your energy this way? It obviously doesn't amount to anything you want. Also there you go again with the public Dayamrita slander. You couldn't possibly know what Amma's directives are for him. And trying to make comparisons between the two of you is just foolhearty. It doesn't really matter anyway. What is your point making these kinds of statments? What are you looking to achieve? Bottom line is that Satsang is not for everyone. If it doesn't work for you in your area, just let it go. Or just attend and accept it for what it is. Of course you can "gently" make suggestions in group satsang organization meetings about the types of group events you are suggesting. It is too bad you couldn't host one yourself. It would be hard for anyone to say anything about that. Pranams, Surya - ckeniley2003 Ammachi Monday, August 07, 2006 5:47 PM Re: Tumbler Principle (kurushetra battlefield) Om Namah Shivaya Amma's satsang groups are what they are ....and do what they feel they should do...It would be rude to push them to do something they aren't accustomed to or don't want to do. On the other hand, group pujas, akanda bhajans, groups chants for peace could be organized outside of satsang, if you had that type of leadereship ability. I have, though noted the numerous insulting comments about others in your posts, and personally, I don't see that as a sign of leadership. Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull wrote: > > I'm not disagreeing about Amma's teachings. The same is taught in > Sai groups and is common in Catholic monastic tradition, sometimes > referred to as being "tossed into a rock tumbler", where everyone > rubs against eachother to become smooth and polished. > > Unfortunately, the same teaching is used in destructive cults to > manipulate folks into staying. You see, a principle is Inherently > neither good or bad (i.e. gravity, creation, heat, etc.) but in the > way it's used. So please don't turn off your "Light of Awareness" > by using Amma's teachings in an Absolute fashion. > > In my opinion, what you're saying is very much being abused by the > local satsang here, creating a cult-like manipulative atmosphere, and > giving those who've stayed on, a Subtle Sense of > Specialness (ego fertilizer) and false pride, and a sense of > Infallibility. Another problem is politics: Don't do anything > unless officially ordered to do so, then you can blame the order- > giver/boss for any mistakes, "I'm just doing my job". This is why > there's no large LS chanting being done, since there's no directive > from Swamiji D to do so. ("Suggestions" from either lower or higher > folks don't count, since it still puts the responsibility on the > locals, rather than an appointed robed man). Personally, I don't > think D has the balls to give the word to hold large chanting events > (universal like the atma/devi puja), and even then chances are that > the events held in DC would be as ineffective as the pathetic local > satsangs, considering the Ignoring of "Essential Sadhana Details". > > You see, if you compare the "talk" of Dayamrita and myself, surely > Dayamrita beats me. If you compare actions, I beat him. (When using > the gunas as the benchmark, rather than an Amma quote debate or > intuition or robe color.) > > tom > > > Ammachi, "Mahamuni Das" <mahamuni@> wrote: > > > > Let me just clarify what I said regarding what Mother regularly > says. She calls Her ashrams Kurukshetra--the battlefield in the > Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata. She says that She takes the rough, > jagged edges of Her devotees and grinds them together to make smooth > stones. > > (snipped) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 I agree. When we insult people we just put them in a position where they either have to defend themselves or walk away (fight or flight). It is an attack, and a violation of ahimsa. Amma is always imploring us to stop looking for other people's faults and see only the good in them, and to focus instead on what we can improve in ourselves. Tom, the satsang here in San Ramon begins with group chanting of LS and other mantras, is it not that way in DC? love, Prajna Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: I would say that this is well said. Not saying this to gang up on you Tom. Many great teachings have the potential to be twisted and abused. That has nothing to do with their greatness. It is an unfortunate quandry. It would be most productive for you and your local satsang, if you would stop taking everyone else's inventory and stop insulting everyone. Why not lead by example instead? There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop you and any size group of people from chanting the LSN, LSS, Shanti Mantras, or anything else. You could certainly start small with just a few people and after they can tell others about their experience and how great it was. Then the group will grow. I am sure that Dayamrita would not object to this either. We certainly do it here in San Diego this way. It manifests in a variety of ways. But when you spend so much energy insulting people, you certainly can't blame them for not being too open or trusting towards you and your ideas. When you use terms like "pathetic", how do you expect people to be receptive to you? Why waste your energy this way? It obviously doesn't amount to anything you want. Also there you go again with the public Dayamrita slander. You couldn't possibly know what Amma's directives are for him. And trying to make comparisons between the two of you is just foolhearty. It doesn't really matter anyway. What is your point making these kinds of statments? What are you looking to achieve? Bottom line is that Satsang is not for everyone. If it doesn't work for you in your area, just let it go. Or just attend and accept it for what it is. Of course you can "gently" make suggestions in group satsang organization meetings about the types of group events you are suggesting. It is too bad you couldn't host one yourself. It would be hard for anyone to say anything about that. Pranams, Surya - ckeniley2003 Ammachi Monday, August 07, 2006 5:47 PM Re: Tumbler Principle (kurushetra battlefield) Om Namah Shivaya Amma's satsang groups are what they are ....and do what they feel they should do...It would be rude to push them to do something they aren't accustomed to or don't want to do. On the other hand, group pujas, akanda bhajans, groups chants for peace could be organized outside of satsang, if you had that type of leadereship ability. I have, though noted the numerous insulting comments about others in your posts, and personally, I don't see that as a sign of leadership. Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull wrote: > > I'm not disagreeing about Amma's teachings. The same is taught in > Sai groups and is common in Catholic monastic tradition, sometimes > referred to as being "tossed into a rock tumbler", where everyone > rubs against eachother to become smooth and polished. > > Unfortunately, the same teaching is used in destructive cults to > manipulate folks into staying. You see, a principle is Inherently > neither good or bad (i.e. gravity, creation, heat, etc.) but in the > way it's used. So please don't turn off your "Light of Awareness" > by using Amma's teachings in an Absolute fashion. > > In my opinion, what you're saying is very much being abused by the > local satsang here, creating a cult-like manipulative atmosphere, and > giving those who've stayed on, a Subtle Sense of > Specialness (ego fertilizer) and false pride, and a sense of > Infallibility. Another problem is politics: Don't do anything > unless officially ordered to do so, then you can blame the order- > giver/boss for any mistakes, "I'm just doing my job". This is why > there's no large LS chanting being done, since there's no directive > from Swamiji D to do so. ("Suggestions" from either lower or higher > folks don't count, since it still puts the responsibility on the > locals, rather than an appointed robed man). Personally, I don't > think D has the balls to give the word to hold large chanting events > (universal like the atma/devi puja), and even then chances are that > the events held in DC would be as ineffective as the pathetic local > satsangs, considering the Ignoring of "Essential Sadhana Details". > > You see, if you compare the "talk" of Dayamrita and myself, surely > Dayamrita beats me. If you compare actions, I beat him. (When using > the gunas as the benchmark, rather than an Amma quote debate or > intuition or robe color.) > > tom > > > Ammachi, "Mahamuni Das" <mahamuni@> wrote: > > > > Let me just clarify what I said regarding what Mother regularly > says. She calls Her ashrams Kurukshetra--the battlefield in the > Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata. She says that She takes the rough, > jagged edges of Her devotees and grinds them together to make smooth > stones. > > (snipped) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Every satsang is different in their format Prajna. - Prajna - Brianna Ammachi Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:12 AM Re: Re: Tumbler Principle (kurushetra battlefield) I agree. When we insult people we just put them in a position where they either have to defend themselves or walk away (fight or flight). It is an attack, and a violation of ahimsa. Amma is always imploring us to stop looking for other people's faults and see only the good in them, and to focus instead on what we can improve in ourselves. Tom, the satsang here in San Ramon begins with group chanting of LS and other mantras, is it not that way in DC? love, Prajna Mahamuni Das <mahamuni (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: I would say that this is well said. Not saying this to gang up on you Tom. Many great teachings have the potential to be twisted and abused. That has nothing to do with their greatness. It is an unfortunate quandry. It would be most productive for you and your local satsang, if you would stop taking everyone else's inventory and stop insulting everyone. Why not lead by example instead? There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop you and any size group of people from chanting the LSN, LSS, Shanti Mantras, or anything else. You could certainly start small with just a few people and after they can tell others about their experience and how great it was. Then the group will grow. I am sure that Dayamrita would not object to this either. We certainly do it here in San Diego this way. It manifests in a variety of ways. But when you spend so much energy insulting people, you certainly can't blame them for not being too open or trusting towards you and your ideas. When you use terms like "pathetic", how do you expect people to be receptive to you? Why waste your energy this way? It obviously doesn't amount to anything you want. Also there you go again with the public Dayamrita slander. You couldn't possibly know what Amma's directives are for him. And trying to make comparisons between the two of you is just foolhearty. It doesn't really matter anyway. What is your point making these kinds of statments? What are you looking to achieve? Bottom line is that Satsang is not for everyone. If it doesn't work for you in your area, just let it go. Or just attend and accept it for what it is. Of course you can "gently" make suggestions in group satsang organization meetings about the types of group events you are suggesting. It is too bad you couldn't host one yourself. It would be hard for anyone to say anything about that. Pranams, Surya - ckeniley2003 Ammachi Monday, August 07, 2006 5:47 PM Re: Tumbler Principle (kurushetra battlefield) Om Namah Shivaya Amma's satsang groups are what they are ....and do what they feel they should do...It would be rude to push them to do something they aren't accustomed to or don't want to do. On the other hand, group pujas, akanda bhajans, groups chants for peace could be organized outside of satsang, if you had that type of leadereship ability. I have, though noted the numerous insulting comments about others in your posts, and personally, I don't see that as a sign of leadership. Ammachi, "Tom" <tomgull wrote: > > I'm not disagreeing about Amma's teachings. The same is taught in > Sai groups and is common in Catholic monastic tradition, sometimes > referred to as being "tossed into a rock tumbler", where everyone > rubs against eachother to become smooth and polished. > > Unfortunately, the same teaching is used in destructive cults to > manipulate folks into staying. You see, a principle is Inherently > neither good or bad (i.e. gravity, creation, heat, etc.) but in the > way it's used. So please don't turn off your "Light of Awareness" > by using Amma's teachings in an Absolute fashion. > > In my opinion, what you're saying is very much being abused by the > local satsang here, creating a cult-like manipulative atmosphere, and > giving those who've stayed on, a Subtle Sense of > Specialness (ego fertilizer) and false pride, and a sense of > Infallibility. Another problem is politics: Don't do anything > unless officially ordered to do so, then you can blame the order- > giver/boss for any mistakes, "I'm just doing my job". This is why > there's no large LS chanting being done, since there's no directive > from Swamiji D to do so. ("Suggestions" from either lower or higher > folks don't count, since it still puts the responsibility on the > locals, rather than an appointed robed man). Personally, I don't > think D has the balls to give the word to hold large chanting events > (universal like the atma/devi puja), and even then chances are that > the events held in DC would be as ineffective as the pathetic local > satsangs, considering the Ignoring of "Essential Sadhana Details". > > You see, if you compare the "talk" of Dayamrita and myself, surely > Dayamrita beats me. If you compare actions, I beat him. (When using > the gunas as the benchmark, rather than an Amma quote debate or > intuition or robe color.) > > tom > > > Ammachi, "Mahamuni Das" <mahamuni@> wrote: > > > > Let me just clarify what I said regarding what Mother regularly > says. She calls Her ashrams Kurukshetra--the battlefield in the > Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata. She says that She takes the rough, > jagged edges of Her devotees and grinds them together to make smooth > stones. > > (snipped) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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