Idol Worship

[Guest guest]

The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a stone

or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing

the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is

mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord always

comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu

Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc., were

only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms

during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord

will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial

to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come whenever

there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

 

Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and statue

for you. You should go from school to college and then to

university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the

school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future ignorant

devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

 

For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said

in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does

not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but says

that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

(Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the statues

and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But the

other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks, oil

lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not mentioned

in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air pollution

harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

avoided.

 

Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord only

but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and offering

of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the

food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to the

priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the merchants

by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped, because

such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the devotees

and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the Gita

(Sreyaan dravyamayat).

 

Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of

the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are

not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the

result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the

temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of work

and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of

the divine knowledge.

 

At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

surya

http://www.universal-spirituality.org

[Guest guest]

||JaiRamakrishna||

Dear Shree Suryaji,

Am quoting something for you below:-

 

"In the 1800"s one British Collector of Puri by the name of

Armstrong questioned a worshipper about this. He gave 108 Magajaj

Ladus to oiler in the temple. The sevaka returned later, but all'

108 were still there. So the British collector doubted Lord Jagan-

nath even more. The worshipper suggested that the weight of] the

offering be taken next time. When it was returned, the weight was 4

or 5 kg. less, and Armstrong became a great believer after-wards."...

 

What we worship in idols, in pictures is the "Brahman" present in

them...this Brahman is present in every human being...frm ants to

elephants....the same thing was reiterated as the Motto of

Ramakrishna Mission:-One who Serves Shiva in form of Jeeva(general

people). this reminds me one saying of Ravindranath Tagore, when in

context to worship to Salagram Silas he said,"I dont watch anything

special in Salagram Silas...why do people worship them...I think

that the "Brahman" present in them is worshipped....if that is the

cause...then any stones could be worshipped"...

 

I hope, it makes any sense...

Thanq,

With Humbleness,

Wish u all success,

 

------------Please dont send me any private messages-----------------

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a

stone

> or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

> direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing

> the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is

> mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord

always

> comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu

> Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

> would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc.,

were

> only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such

forms

> during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

> worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord

> will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial

> to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come

whenever

> there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

>

> Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and

statue

> for you. You should go from school to college and then to

> university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the

> school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

> batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

> necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

> temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

> respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future

ignorant

> devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

> before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

>

> For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

> meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

> photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said

> in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does

> not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but

says

> that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

> (Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the

statues

> and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But

the

> other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks,

oil

> lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not

mentioned

> in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air

pollution

> harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

> avoided.

>

> Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord

only

> but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and

offering

> of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

> inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the

> food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

> Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

> and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

> ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to

the

> priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the

merchants

> by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped,

because

> such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

> should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the

devotees

> and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

> Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

> devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

> Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the

Gita

> (Sreyaan dravyamayat).

>

> Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

> only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

> object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of

> the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are

> not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

> that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the

> result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

> kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the

> temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of

work

> and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

> aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

> condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of

> the divine knowledge.

>

> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> surya

> http://www.universal-spirituality.org

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

I have decided for certain reasons not to participate much in these

posts. So You will be hearing less

of me from now on. But when posts such as one I am replying to come

up, then something gears

up in the heart and am initated to say few words. thus time is

wasted, but provocation is there so

what to do.

 

Dear Surya,

 

Are You a missionary ? Spread light as per Your name and not

darkness.

 

You have mentioned-

The statue or photo is the inert object-

Reply-

This is what You say. But the context differs in many cases. In the

context

of comparing with controlled consciousness and inert

consciousness ,You may call this

Jada or inert. But when You are connecting to allegories, then this

stone cannot be inert.

Take this stone to any good scientist ,only a small piece would

suffice, he would tell You

of the million protons,neutrons and ellectrons circulating in that

small stone. What do You

call that energy in the context You used ? Inert ?

 

Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come in

any other form. -

Reply-

When a professor is talking about biology You cant tell others , that

Oh the professor did

not talk about refraction of light. Gita is mainly for Karma updesh,

coming from Shree vachans of

God Krishna. What is not there, is not, cannot be true. Because when

Gita was said Arjuna was not

in Gita, neither Bhishma Pitamaha were in Gita, neither the Lord

himself was in Gita. So are they

not there ? One is the sayer one is the listener, they are not in

Gita, but the cause of Gita.

So are they not there ? Now Dont talk that their names are mentioned

in Gita. We know all

about our religion very well. Computer was not there in Gita. So

computer is not there ?Because he

did not say this, so this is not there or will not be ? What

rubbish .Dont quote great scriptures

to bring in Your ideologies.

 

They should be protected and must be respected as the models of

divine knowledge

for the future ignorant devotees. The statues and photos are useful

for the meditation

of such limited minds . Seeing and meditation upon the statues

and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees.

Reply.

You mean all Catholics going to Church and worshipping statue of Lord

Jesus or

The Virgin Mary are fools ? You mean all Muslims going to Kaba are

without intelligence ?

You mean all Hindus going to temples are idiots ? You mean Meerabai

or Bhakta Surdasa

were ignorant devotees ? You think that all people of these faiths if

they are unable to go to

their respective places of worship and sitting at home and doing

worship with photos,statues,

or things connected to their Lords are all ignorant. And You are

smart ? What great

realisation on Your part. Do You think these great devotees did not

have knowledge that God is everywhere? They definitely had this

knowledge. Or did You think that these great devotees would

limit their Gods to one statue ? and the space the statue occupies ?

what tragedic thinking. Would You not keep photos of Your loved ones

when they are no more physically with You ?

They know that God is sarvavyapak (That is omnipresent) but cannot

love him in that form or show their love when God is that form so

they for the time being( till this body is there ) accept him in the

statue and start

worshipping him. not that he is not there outside the statue. Because

its easy to worship tahts why.

Also statue worship is for helping a devotee to concentrate. To

Focus.To bring home.

I want to explain so many theories with examples to You but would You

keep open mind to hear that ?

You please read passages on Nirvikaar akar and also sakaam bhakti.

 

But the other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume

sticks, oil

lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not mentioned

in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air pollution

harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

avoided.Offering food should also be done to the human form of the

Lord only

but not to the inert statues.

The statue and photo is not taking the food or

Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

 

Reply-

Who are You to decide what should be done or not. Have You been made

Head

of the Hindu religion.? Pardon me I did not know. I am so ignorant.

God help me.

Weare not so great devotees that God will appear in human form before

us

and partake food.and the way You are talking does not seem in your

case too.

Food offered is a show of love to God ,flowers offered is for

freshness-purity

(as flowersare the purest), offered to God.coconuts means submission-

bowing

of head-ego before God.You wont understand all this, so will not

elaborate.

You think agarbattis, camphor,lamps, they pollute the atmosphere ?

Which

planet are You living in ? Do You know the significance of the

burning ghee

in yagna, and the beautiful smell peffume like emanating in the

atmosphere,

what it is capable of ? Forget it. No use wasting my time.But if ever

You get fear or think that someone is out to harm You, someone not

human

then do come near the place where yagna is going on and inhale the

fumes. Do You also know that how Gods eat their food ? You think with

their mouth ?

Then You are the dumbest person I have ever heard who is trying to

teach us Vedas.

these secrets I better not open before You.

 

 

Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

object (Bhutejya yanti).

Reply. One side You say that such devotee will be born as inert

object.

Other side You say that dont worship inert object. If the inert

object is

devotee reborn as inert, then did not he have life before, which

could not

end with his human body but continued to rebirth as inert object ?

Which means he has life still ? Only body ended in Your own words ?

In Your above utterance the fallacy of the whole article stands to

nought my dear.

You have contadicted the essence what You were trying to push us into.

 

 

Dear You have not read a single page of the vedas, nor digested a

single line,at least we are better than You, we practise before we

preach. Picking up statements from Gita and the Vedas, and then

distorting them for stupid purposes or missionary purposes, will only

spoil name of Your Guru and the

whole lineage. , ath the same time incurring sins for spreading

distorted philosphy.

I also worship Datta daily , but not talk rubbish like You.

I could have dissected every sentence of Yours, but time limitations

are there, the mail has becometoo long already.

Dont reply me, as I am not interested in communicating. But next time

if You write rubbish, I am sorry

You will hear from me again.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a stone

> or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

> direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing

> the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is

> mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord

always

> comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu

> Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

> would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc.,

were

> only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such

forms

> during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

> worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord

> will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial

> to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come whenever

> there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

>

> Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and

statue

> for you. You should go from school to college and then to

> university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the

> school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

> batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

> necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

> temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

> respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future ignorant

> devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

> before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

>

> For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

> meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

> photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said

> in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does

> not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but

says

> that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

> (Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the

statues

> and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But

the

> other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks, oil

> lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not

mentioned

> in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air

pollution

> harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

> avoided.

>

> Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord

only

> but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and offering

> of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

> inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the

> food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

> Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

> and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

> ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to the

> priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the merchants

> by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped, because

> such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

> should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the devotees

> and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

> Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

> devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

> Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the Gita

> (Sreyaan dravyamayat).

>

> Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

> only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

> object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of

> the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are

> not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

> that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the

> result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

> kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the

> temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of work

> and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

> aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

> condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of

> the divine knowledge.

>

> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> surya

> http://www.universal-spirituality.org

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskarji,

 

good post...

i hope these datta posts are moderated as it is clear distraction

from the focus...this brings to my memory lord maclauy's vision and

ambition when he visited india to revamp its education system...it

is worth reading his speech some 170 years ago to the british

parliament ...all will come to know the greatness of india and its

vedic culture...and how systematically our vedic culture has been

destroyed for their selfish interests...how we are now just playing

as they wanted...

if time permits, i will type the his speech in short form later..

 

regards

sriganeshh

 

 

, "bhaskar_jyotish"

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> I have decided for certain reasons not to participate much in

these

> posts. So You will be hearing less

> of me from now on. But when posts such as one I am replying to

come

> up, then something gears

> up in the heart and am initated to say few words. thus time is

> wasted, but provocation is there so

> what to do.

>

> Dear Surya,

>

> Are You a missionary ? Spread light as per Your name and not

> darkness.

>

> You have mentioned-

> The statue or photo is the inert object-

> Reply-

> This is what You say. But the context differs in many cases. In

the

> context

> of comparing with controlled consciousness and inert

> consciousness ,You may call this

> Jada or inert. But when You are connecting to allegories, then

this

> stone cannot be inert.

> Take this stone to any good scientist ,only a small piece would

> suffice, he would tell You

> of the million protons,neutrons and ellectrons circulating in that

> small stone. What do You

> call that energy in the context You used ? Inert ?

>

> Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come in

> any other form. -

> Reply-

> When a professor is talking about biology You cant tell others ,

that

> Oh the professor did

> not talk about refraction of light. Gita is mainly for Karma

updesh,

> coming from Shree vachans of

> God Krishna. What is not there, is not, cannot be true. Because

when

> Gita was said Arjuna was not

> in Gita, neither Bhishma Pitamaha were in Gita, neither the Lord

> himself was in Gita. So are they

> not there ? One is the sayer one is the listener, they are not in

> Gita, but the cause of Gita.

> So are they not there ? Now Dont talk that their names are

mentioned

> in Gita. We know all

> about our religion very well. Computer was not there in Gita. So

> computer is not there ?Because he

> did not say this, so this is not there or will not be ? What

> rubbish .Dont quote great scriptures

> to bring in Your ideologies.

>

> They should be protected and must be respected as the models of

> divine knowledge

> for the future ignorant devotees. The statues and photos are

useful

> for the meditation

> of such limited minds . Seeing and meditation upon the statues

> and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees.

> Reply.

> You mean all Catholics going to Church and worshipping statue of

Lord

> Jesus or

> The Virgin Mary are fools ? You mean all Muslims going to Kaba are

> without intelligence ?

> You mean all Hindus going to temples are idiots ? You mean

Meerabai

> or Bhakta Surdasa

> were ignorant devotees ? You think that all people of these faiths

if

> they are unable to go to

> their respective places of worship and sitting at home and doing

> worship with photos,statues,

> or things connected to their Lords are all ignorant. And You are

> smart ? What great

> realisation on Your part. Do You think these great devotees did

not

> have knowledge that God is everywhere? They definitely had this

> knowledge. Or did You think that these great devotees would

> limit their Gods to one statue ? and the space the statue

occupies ?

> what tragedic thinking. Would You not keep photos of Your loved

ones

> when they are no more physically with You ?

> They know that God is sarvavyapak (That is omnipresent) but

cannot

> love him in that form or show their love when God is that form so

> they for the time being( till this body is there ) accept him in

the

> statue and start

> worshipping him. not that he is not there outside the statue.

Because

> its easy to worship tahts why.

> Also statue worship is for helping a devotee to concentrate. To

> Focus.To bring home.

> I want to explain so many theories with examples to You but would

You

> keep open mind to hear that ?

> You please read passages on Nirvikaar akar and also sakaam bhakti.

>

> But the other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume

> sticks, oil

> lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not

mentioned

> in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air

pollution

> harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

> avoided.Offering food should also be done to the human form of the

> Lord only

> but not to the inert statues.

> The statue and photo is not taking the food or

> Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

>

> Reply-

> Who are You to decide what should be done or not. Have You been

made

> Head

> of the Hindu religion.? Pardon me I did not know. I am so

ignorant.

> God help me.

> Weare not so great devotees that God will appear in human form

before

> us

> and partake food.and the way You are talking does not seem in your

> case too.

> Food offered is a show of love to God ,flowers offered is for

> freshness-purity

> (as flowersare the purest), offered to God.coconuts means

submission-

> bowing

> of head-ego before God.You wont understand all this, so will not

> elaborate.

> You think agarbattis, camphor,lamps, they pollute the atmosphere ?

> Which

> planet are You living in ? Do You know the significance of the

> burning ghee

> in yagna, and the beautiful smell peffume like emanating in the

> atmosphere,

> what it is capable of ? Forget it. No use wasting my time.But if

ever

> You get fear or think that someone is out to harm You, someone not

> human

> then do come near the place where yagna is going on and inhale the

> fumes. Do You also know that how Gods eat their food ? You think

with

> their mouth ?

> Then You are the dumbest person I have ever heard who is trying to

> teach us Vedas.

> these secrets I better not open before You.

>

>

> Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

> only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

> object (Bhutejya yanti).

> Reply. One side You say that such devotee will be born as inert

> object.

> Other side You say that dont worship inert object. If the inert

> object is

> devotee reborn as inert, then did not he have life before, which

> could not

> end with his human body but continued to rebirth as inert object ?

> Which means he has life still ? Only body ended in Your own words ?

> In Your above utterance the fallacy of the whole article stands

to

> nought my dear.

> You have contadicted the essence what You were trying to push us

into.

>

>

> Dear You have not read a single page of the vedas, nor digested a

> single line,at least we are better than You, we practise before we

> preach. Picking up statements from Gita and the Vedas, and then

> distorting them for stupid purposes or missionary purposes, will

only

> spoil name of Your Guru and the

> whole lineage. , ath the same time incurring sins for spreading

> distorted philosphy.

> I also worship Datta daily , but not talk rubbish like You.

> I could have dissected every sentence of Yours, but time

limitations

> are there, the mail has becometoo long already.

> Dont reply me, as I am not interested in communicating. But next

time

> if You write rubbish, I am sorry

> You will hear from me again.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

>

> , "surya" <dattapr2000@>

> wrote:

> >

> > The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a

stone

> > or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

> > direct photo. The statues and photos are only models

representing

> > the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos

is

> > mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord

> always

> > comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem

Tanu

> > Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

> > would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc.,

> were

> > only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such

> forms

> > during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

> > worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The

Lord

> > will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes

partial

> > to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come

whenever

> > there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

> >

> > Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and

> statue

> > for you. You should go from school to college and then to

> > university. This does not mean that when you leave the school,

the

> > school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

> > batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

> > necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

> > temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

> > respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future

ignorant

> > devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

> > before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

> >

> > For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

> > meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

> > photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as

said

> > in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord

does

> > not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but

> says

> > that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

> > (Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the

> statues

> > and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But

> the

> > other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks,

oil

> > lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not

> mentioned

> > in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air

> pollution

> > harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

> > avoided.

> >

> > Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord

> only

> > but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and

offering

> > of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

> > inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing

the

> > food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

> > Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those

things

> > and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

> > ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to

the

> > priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the

merchants

> > by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped,

because

> > such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

> > should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the

devotees

> > and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

> > Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

> > devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

> > Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the

Gita

> > (Sreyaan dravyamayat).

> >

> > Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya

is

> > only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

> > object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal

of

> > the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which

are

> > not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

> > that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get

the

> > result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

> > kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in

the

> > temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of

work

> > and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

> > aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

> > condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models

of

> > the divine knowledge.

> >

> > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> > surya

> > http://www.universal-spirituality.org

> >

>

[Guest guest]

dear Shri Suryaji,

Ur article is enlightening as a matter of fact Swami

vivekananda use to advice to stop such rituals.

However I would request u to clarify whether the Agama

sastras being followed by the temples is codified in

Vedas. If some light can be thrown on Agama sastras it

would be useful.

 

with good wishes,

k.gopu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Gopu,

I am sure unless u read one Swami vivekandas full works and the context in which he said this rituals issue

2. and u need to understand any subject before commenting on its utility or otherwise quite often it is the practicioners who are the culprit not the activity, now if u read the news that Doctors cut/amputated for money on begges, will u decry the doctor or the mecial system?

there ar elawyers who fight for the dreaded criminals as innocent and get them scot free will u blame the system ro the person here, 1st the person WHO HAS LOST his moral moorings then the system.

this must be the way forward.

ON IDOL WORSHIP it is like traget shooting practice, its sharpens ur shooting skills and once u are a pro u do;t need the target board to aim at u can aim and shoot.

and also the Idol worship rituals has a process of identigyign each part of the human anatomy and is worshiped which does help strengthen any weakness or ailments in the part fo the bod for the people witnessing it or anyone doing it for their individual sale, result is surely dependant on the quality of the conductoer and faith of the seeker.

 

K Gopu <kgopu_24 (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

dear Shri Suryaji,

Ur article is enlightening as a matter of fact Swami

vivekananda use to advice to stop such rituals.

However I would request u to clarify whether the Agama

sastras being followed by the temples is codified in

Vedas. If some light can be thrown on Agama sastras it

would be useful.

with good wishes,

k.gopu

 

 

Prashantkumar G B

-*- The services of this astrologer are free on group but

off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or phone.

Please fix times for this in advance -*-

09840051861

 

 

 

 

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

||Jai Ramakrishna||

Dear Shreegopu,

please read swamiji's books in what context he condemned such

rituals.

Thanq,

Wish u all success,

With humbleness,

 

-------------Please dont send may private messages-------------------

 

 

 

, Prashant Kumar G B

<gbp_kumar wrote:

>

> Gopu,

> I am sure unless u read one Swami vivekandas full works and the

context in which he said this rituals issue

> 2. and u need to understand any subject before commenting on

its utility or otherwise quite often it is the practicioners who

are the culprit not the activity, now if u read the news that

Doctors cut/amputated for money on begges, will u decry the doctor

or the mecial system?

> there ar elawyers who fight for the dreaded criminals as

innocent and get them scot free will u blame the system ro the

person here, 1st the person WHO HAS LOST his moral moorings then

the system.

>

> this must be the way forward.

>

> ON IDOL WORSHIP it is like traget shooting practice, its

sharpens ur shooting skills and once u are a pro u do;t need the

target board to aim at u can aim and shoot.

> and also the Idol worship rituals has a process of identigyign

each part of the human anatomy and is worshiped which does help

strengthen any weakness or ailments in the part fo the bod for the

people witnessing it or anyone doing it for their individual sale,

result is surely dependant on the quality of the conductoer and

faith of the seeker.

>

>

>

> K Gopu <kgopu_24

wrote:

> dear Shri Suryaji,

> Ur article is enlightening as a matter of fact Swami

> vivekananda use to advice to stop such rituals.

> However I would request u to clarify whether the Agama

> sastras being followed by the temples is codified in

> Vedas. If some light can be thrown on Agama sastras it

> would be useful.

>

> with good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Prashantkumar G B

>

> -*- The services of this astrologer are free on

group but

> off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or phone.

> Please fix times for this in advance -*-

> 09840051861

>

>

>

>

>

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Gopuji,

 

Its nice to know that You believe in Swami Vivekanandji and

his works. But as Shri Prashantji has said we have to always see the

full context in which any statement is made. Again knowing is

different,believeing is differenet and doing is different.

We know that taking Gods name while doing our daily duties is good

and believe that too, but how many do it actually ?

Apart from that we know a person like Swami Vivekanandji is right,

but not necessarily will we follow all that he says. He was already

a self-illumned person who had realised. For him idol worship or outer

ways of worshipping would not have mattered. Because he was always

immerged in the bliss of his existence everywhere. He also said

that treat all women like mother, when a lady wanted a son like him.

Do we follow that ? If a beautiful women comes to You with

entertaining modus operandi and endearing eyes and sweet smile,would

You call her or treat her like mother ? So dear knowing all,

believing all and doing all are entirely different terms. Let me make

use of this post to say something. The gentleman who had posted the

post (follower of Dutta),

was not entirely wrong in his intentions. Because ultimately the idol

or the form which we like and meditate upon, this only leads us to

the formless. But the problem is when we dont practise what we preach

and talk about high philosphy when even normal and common rituals of

worship are being difficult to followed these days due to hectic life

schedules etc.Also using quotes from scriptures and twisting them

to give different meaning to push your own ideologies, only spoils

the good intentions which the writer may have had ,if any,

 

Regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

, K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote:

>

>

> dear Shri Suryaji,

> Ur article is enlightening as a matter of fact Swami

> vivekananda use to advice to stop such rituals.

> However I would request u to clarify whether the Agama

> sastras being followed by the temples is codified in

> Vedas. If some light can be thrown on Agama sastras it

> would be useful.

>

> with good wishes,

> k.gopu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

is there any response from suryaji....on our various responses on

his thread....

 

sriganeshh

 

, "bhaskar_jyotish"

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Gopuji,

>

> Its nice to know that You believe in Swami Vivekanandji and

> his works. But as Shri Prashantji has said we have to always see

the

> full context in which any statement is made. Again knowing is

> different,believeing is differenet and doing is different.

> We know that taking Gods name while doing our daily duties is good

> and believe that too, but how many do it actually ?

> Apart from that we know a person like Swami Vivekanandji is right,

> but not necessarily will we follow all that he says. He was already

> a self-illumned person who had realised. For him idol worship or

outer

> ways of worshipping would not have mattered. Because he was always

> immerged in the bliss of his existence everywhere. He also said

> that treat all women like mother, when a lady wanted a son like

him.

> Do we follow that ? If a beautiful women comes to You with

> entertaining modus operandi and endearing eyes and sweet

smile,would

> You call her or treat her like mother ? So dear knowing all,

> believing all and doing all are entirely different terms. Let me

make

> use of this post to say something. The gentleman who had posted

the

> post (follower of Dutta),

> was not entirely wrong in his intentions. Because ultimately the

idol

> or the form which we like and meditate upon, this only leads us to

> the formless. But the problem is when we dont practise what we

preach

> and talk about high philosphy when even normal and common rituals

of

> worship are being difficult to followed these days due to hectic

life

> schedules etc.Also using quotes from scriptures and twisting them

> to give different meaning to push your own ideologies, only spoils

> the good intentions which the writer may have had ,if any,

>

> Regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

> , K Gopu <kgopu_24@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > dear Shri Suryaji,

> > Ur article is enlightening as a matter of fact Swami

> > vivekananda use to advice to stop such rituals.

> > However I would request u to clarify whether the Agama

> > sastras being followed by the temples is codified in

> > Vedas. If some light can be thrown on Agama sastras it

> > would be useful.

> >

> > with good wishes,

> > k.gopu

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Ganesh,

 

Not required actually because then You tend to get entangled in

this replying busines thus essential time is lost which could have

been utilsed for more fruitful....

But dont worry, he is well paid missionary.,will come back

periodically to distort statements from ........

and push his ideologies....

 

Bye.

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, "sriganeshh"

<sriganeshh wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> is there any response from suryaji....on our various responses on

> his thread....

>

> sriganeshh

>

> , "bhaskar_jyotish"

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Gopuji,

> >

> > Its nice to know that You believe in Swami Vivekanandji and

> > his works. But as Shri Prashantji has said we have to always see

> the

> > full context in which any statement is made. Again knowing is

> > different,believeing is differenet and doing is different.

> > We know that taking Gods name while doing our daily duties is

good

> > and believe that too, but how many do it actually ?

> > Apart from that we know a person like Swami Vivekanandji is right,

> > but not necessarily will we follow all that he says. He was

already

> > a self-illumned person who had realised. For him idol worship or

> outer

> > ways of worshipping would not have mattered. Because he was always

> > immerged in the bliss of his existence everywhere. He also said

> > that treat all women like mother, when a lady wanted a son like

> him.

> > Do we follow that ? If a beautiful women comes to You with

> > entertaining modus operandi and endearing eyes and sweet

> smile,would

> > You call her or treat her like mother ? So dear knowing all,

> > believing all and doing all are entirely different terms. Let me

> make

> > use of this post to say something. The gentleman who had posted

> the

> > post (follower of Dutta),

> > was not entirely wrong in his intentions. Because ultimately the

> idol

> > or the form which we like and meditate upon, this only leads us

to

> > the formless. But the problem is when we dont practise what we

> preach

> > and talk about high philosphy when even normal and common rituals

> of

> > worship are being difficult to followed these days due to hectic

> life

> > schedules etc.Also using quotes from scriptures and twisting them

> > to give different meaning to push your own ideologies, only

spoils

> > the good intentions which the writer may have had ,if any,

> >

> > Regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> > , K Gopu <kgopu_24@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > dear Shri Suryaji,

> > > Ur article is enlightening as a matter of fact Swami

> > > vivekananda use to advice to stop such rituals.

> > > However I would request u to clarify whether the Agama

> > > sastras being followed by the temples is codified in

> > > Vedas. If some light can be thrown on Agama sastras it

> > > would be useful.

> > >

> > > with good wishes,

> > > k.gopu

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

dear

sri Prashant,

I fully agree with u that it is the quality of the

conductor of the rituals matters. Many a times this

quality is always linked to the amount of money a

person is prepared to spend. sometime back i read an

article on true devotion to god. an example quoted by

the writer is, Lord Venkateswara will be

overwhelmingly pleased to receive a small contribution

made by an innocent villager who sacrifices his needs

and collects money to make a trip to thirupathi by

walk or any other mode and waits in dharma darshan

maybe for 8hrs or 10hrs with his family and finally

has a darshan and contributes to the hundi his true

collections and in return he doesnt ask anything, he

goes with a belief that god will take care of him."

In the last century we had two great living saints ie

ramana maharishi and Kanchi paramacharyar who were

shedding materialism. But today we are surrounded by

hybrid materialism in the form of advanced technology

so all the teachings of these great saints are put to

cold storage be it a school or college. But one silver

lining is this hybrid technology is also put to good

use like this website where we are in a position to

exchange our views (maybe acceptable or can be

rejected) but we shouldnt put a stop to good

information. Yes idol worship is done in temple after

prana prathistha is done to the idol. Continous

utterance of the mantra by the priest will have +ve

vibrations, but it is the society and the people have

to practise the goodness of our heritage. As thoughts

were flowing in mymind after seeing ur mail I decided

toshare the same thro this mail.

 

with good wishes,

k.gopu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Veda says "Na tasya pratima asti'' which means that God will not

enter the inert statues. Gita says "Manusheem tanu masritam" which

means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose

is to preach the human beings. Gita strongly says that he who

worships the inert statues will be born as an inert stone (Bhutejya

yaanti).

 

The reason for basic misunderstanding is the word "Brahman". As per

Sanskrit grammar this word comes from the root "Bruhi-Vruddhau",

which means, the root meaning of this word is greatness. Anything

that is great can be called as Brahman. The soul is the most

precious and greatest item of the creation and is called as Para

Prakruti, which means the greatest of all the created items. The

soul is included as a part of the creation (Prakruti) and is called

as Para Prakruti as said in Gita (Prakritim Viddhi me paraam….). It

is not Creator. If it is Creator it cannot be called as Prakruti.

Parabrahman always refers to Lord only.

 

I agree the soul (awareness) is common right from president of a

country to street beggar. By this single aspect, can you say

president of country and beggar are one and the same? How do you

differentiate two persons? Soul is common in all the people in the

world and hence all the people are one and the same? There may be a

goonda, who might have committed lot of sins. Soul is common, so

will it be acceptable to you that he is same as any normal human

being.

 

Hence, the main difference comes with the subtle body, which is the

bundle of samaskaras. Swami Vivekananda wanted to take renunciation

at the age of eight. Prahlada at the age of five could undergo lot

of severe tests and still continued His devotion. Now compare their

Samskara with us.

 

They also have awareness and we also have awareness. So, can we

become equal to Swami Vivekananda or Prahlada? To differentiate two

people, common single point like soul is not to be considered. It is

simply meaningless. Even animals also have soul which is common to

the soul within us. Lord is called `Atmeswaram' (controller of

souls). Soul or awareness is a created item and Lord who is the

super soul, is the controller of all the souls.

 

At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

surya

http://www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

"astrologer_gaurav" <gg_0202 wrote:

>

> ||JaiRamakrishna||

> Dear Shree Suryaji,

> Am quoting something for you below:-

> "In the 1800"s one British Collector of Puri by the name of

> Armstrong questioned a worshipper about this. He gave 108 Magajaj

> Ladus to oiler in the temple. The sevaka returned later, but all'

> 108 were still there. So the British collector doubted Lord Jagan-

> nath even more. The worshipper suggested that the weight of] the

> offering be taken next time. When it was returned, the weight was

4 or 5 kg. less, and Armstrong became a great believer after-

wards."...

> I hope, it makes any sense...> Thanq,

> With Humbleness,

> Wish u all success,

>

[Guest guest]

God will not enter inert statue ?

Dear Great Advisor,God is already there. awaiting Only a great

devotee to make him appear.Khambe sab jagah hain sirf Bhakta Prahlad

chahiye.

 

Dear while appreciating Your talking about God, its better if

You talk from Your own experience insteadof quoting great scriptures

and twisting what they mean.

 

If You are really a so realised soul then please start predicting on

this Forum and remove all pains of native who come here for help/

 

A small ounce of practice is better than 2 litres of preaching.

 

Regards,

Bhaskar.

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> Veda says "Na tasya pratima asti'' which means that God will not

> enter the inert statues. Gita says "Manusheem tanu masritam" which

> means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose

> is to preach the human beings. Gita strongly says that he who

> worships the inert statues will be born as an inert stone (Bhutejya

> yaanti).

>

> The reason for basic misunderstanding is the word "Brahman". As per

> Sanskrit grammar this word comes from the root "Bruhi-Vruddhau",

> which means, the root meaning of this word is greatness. Anything

> that is great can be called as Brahman. The soul is the most

> precious and greatest item of the creation and is called as Para

> Prakruti, which means the greatest of all the created items. The

> soul is included as a part of the creation (Prakruti) and is called

> as Para Prakruti as said in Gita (Prakritim Viddhi me paraam….). It

> is not Creator. If it is Creator it cannot be called as Prakruti.

> Parabrahman always refers to Lord only.

>

> I agree the soul (awareness) is common right from president of a

> country to street beggar. By this single aspect, can you say

> president of country and beggar are one and the same? How do you

> differentiate two persons? Soul is common in all the people in the

> world and hence all the people are one and the same? There may be a

> goonda, who might have committed lot of sins. Soul is common, so

> will it be acceptable to you that he is same as any normal human

> being.

>

> Hence, the main difference comes with the subtle body, which is the

> bundle of samaskaras. Swami Vivekananda wanted to take renunciation

> at the age of eight. Prahlada at the age of five could undergo lot

> of severe tests and still continued His devotion. Now compare their

> Samskara with us.

>

> They also have awareness and we also have awareness. So, can we

> become equal to Swami Vivekananda or Prahlada? To differentiate two

> people, common single point like soul is not to be considered. It

is

> simply meaningless. Even animals also have soul which is common to

> the soul within us. Lord is called `Atmeswaram' (controller of

> souls). Soul or awareness is a created item and Lord who is the

> super soul, is the controller of all the souls.

>

> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> surya

> http://www.universal-spirituality.org

>

>

> "astrologer_gaurav" <gg_0202@> wrote:

> >

> > ||JaiRamakrishna||

> > Dear Shree Suryaji,

> > Am quoting something for you below:-

> > "In the 1800"s one British Collector of Puri by the name of

> > Armstrong questioned a worshipper about this. He gave 108 Magajaj

> > Ladus to oiler in the temple. The sevaka returned later, but all'

> > 108 were still there. So the British collector doubted Lord Jagan-

> > nath even more. The worshipper suggested that the weight of] the

> > offering be taken next time. When it was returned, the weight was

> 4 or 5 kg. less, and Armstrong became a great believer after-

> wards."...

> > I hope, it makes any sense...> Thanq,

> > With Humbleness,

> > Wish u all success,

> >

>

[Guest guest]

"bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

 

>> The statue or photo is the inert object-

> Reply-

> But the context differs in many cases. In the context of comparing

with controlled consciousness and inert consciousness ,You may call

this Jada or inert. But when You are connecting to allegories, then

this stone cannot be inert. Take this stone to any good

scientist ,only a small piece would suffice, he would tell You of

the million protons,neutrons and ellectrons circulating in that

small stone. What do You call that energy in the context You used?

Inert?

 

Surya: There is no logic in your statements and is not suitable when

one enters Jnana yoga or Brahma Vidya, where the divine knowledge

will be preached by Lord in human form (like krishna, Shankara...

but not Tagore, Gandhi, Nehru ...) with complete logic. The basic

requirement for receiving brahma jnana as per Shankara is Chitta

suddhi. Veda says 'Pratima alpa buddhinam', which indicates the

level of devotee doing idol worship. Lord krishna in human form only

preached Gita and not idols of His time. No further argument is

required for your objections.

--------------------------

>> Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come

in any other form. -

> Reply-

> Gita is mainly for Karma updesh, coming from Shree vachans of God

Krishna. What is not there, is not, cannot be true. Because when

Gita was said Arjuna was not in Gita, neither the Lord himself was

in Gita. So are they not there ? One is the sayer one is the

listener, they are not in Gita, but the cause of Gita. So are they

not there? Computer was not there in Gita. So computer is not there?

Because he did not say this, so this is not there or will not be?

What rubbish.Dont quote great scriptures to bring in Your ideologies.

 

surya: In Gita, you will find, Arjuna Uvacha, Bhagavan Uvacha, which

mean Arjuna & Krishna were very much there. When you accept Krishna

as Lord, whatever was preached by Him forms the scripture. This is

the reference document for any believer of Krishna to pursue the

spirituality and identify the contemporary human incarnation.

Ofcourse such scripture is not required for those sitting on banks

of river without getting in to water and commenting just for fun

sake. In idol worship, elders say Lord exists in idol and we blindly

accept. There is no need of logic or analysis, which means Brahma

Jnana is not at all required. Your arguments correspond to level of

idol worship and hence need not be logical also.

-----------------

>> They should be protected and must be respected as the models of

>> divine knowledge for the future ignorant devotees.

> Reply.

> You mean all Catholics going to Church and worshipping statue of

Lord Jesus or The Virgin Mary are fools? You mean all Muslims going

to Kaba are without intelligence? You mean all Hindus going to

temples are idiots ? You mean Meerabai or Bhakta Surdasa

> were ignorant devotees ? And You are smart? What great

realisation on Your part. Do You think these great devotees did not

have knowledge that God is everywhere? They definitely had this

knowledge. Or did You think that these great devotees would limit

their Gods to one statue ? and the space the statue occupies? what

tragedic thinking. Would You not keep photos of Your loved ones when

they are no more physically with You?

 

surya: The top most devotees who also turned out top most jnanis by

achieving the top most laurels by pleasing the Lord are ....

 

Hanuman, a topmost devotee identified Lord Rama and served Him and

always said 'Dasoham kosalendrasya...' (I am servant to Lord Rama).

He even performed many miracles also and still he has given credit

of them to Rama only. For such worship, Lord has given future

creator post to Hanuman.

 

Peter, John, Luke... identified Lord Jesus by His divine knowledge

and participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

 

Gopikas identified and worshipped Lord Krishna, the then human

incarnation only and got the highest fruit of top most Goloka. Swami

Vivekananda participated in the mission of propagation of divine

knowledge on the order of the then human incarnation Rama Krishna

Paramahamsa.

 

Likewise the disciples of Adi Sankara worshipped Him as lord and

latter on participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

 

Meerabai is Radha only who learnt complete Brahma Jnana even before

she borned as Radha and that is why she could identify Lord Krishna

and worshipped Him. When Meerabai was worshipping Krishna, she

underwent lot of troubles but still she did not leave her devotion

and she also composed many bjajans out of her true devotion and

propagated them as part propagation of bhakti in the masses. Where

as if we worship Lord Krishna now and if any trouble comes we will

leave the worship. If our desires are not fulfilled, we start

scolding Lord. Our state represents complete ajnana and Meerabai

state represents complete Brahma Jnani. But you are comparing

ourselves with Meerabai.

 

I will reply remaning comments if they are meaningful in another

mail.

 

> regards,

> Bhaskar

 

At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

[Guest guest]

At times You are quoting Vedas, at times, The Gita, at times You are

saying that Shankara said so, at times You are saying Krishna said so.

But unfortunately You are not ableto synchronise all this to a common

statement made by You. You have made a tasteless khichdi in that

process.

I have also seen Your Website, sorry to say but You talk about small

cateogory devotees worshipping photos and statues. Then why have You

been so enjoyful in placing one Human being in different dresses and

showed him as avataras. Why are so many photos placed,for attracting

small devotees ? To get finance or funding for distortion of the

great scriptures ? You talk about statues and photo and yourself

doing drama.

I am sorry with due respect to that gentleman and to You too as You

are the ansha of HIM only and not seperate, but your philosphies are

totally misplaced.

Talk about RajYoga only when You have crossed Bhakti Yoga. Dear

You are not talking to some roadside fellow now, You are talking with

a person who is well read., and again a devotee of God.

But again, dont waste my time by unnecessary arguments, as my daily

food and expenses is not funded by donations attracted by posting

photos for gullible small devotees living in or outside India. If I

had so much knowledge like You claim to possess I would have

enlightened myself and my family first before going to the world.

Please do not waste time over small devotee like me and neither yours

(a big devotee)by replying.

 

 

 

 

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

>

> >> The statue or photo is the inert object-

> > Reply-

> > But the context differs in many cases. In the context of

comparing

> with controlled consciousness and inert consciousness ,You may call

> this Jada or inert. But when You are connecting to allegories, then

> this stone cannot be inert. Take this stone to any good

> scientist ,only a small piece would suffice, he would tell You of

> the million protons,neutrons and ellectrons circulating in that

> small stone. What do You call that energy in the context You used?

> Inert?

>

> Surya: There is no logic in your statements and is not suitable

when

> one enters Jnana yoga or Brahma Vidya, where the divine knowledge

> will be preached by Lord in human form (like krishna, Shankara...

> but not Tagore, Gandhi, Nehru ...) with complete logic. The basic

> requirement for receiving brahma jnana as per Shankara is Chitta

> suddhi. Veda says 'Pratima alpa buddhinam', which indicates the

> level of devotee doing idol worship. Lord krishna in human form

only

> preached Gita and not idols of His time. No further argument is

> required for your objections.

> --------------------------

> >> Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come

> in any other form. -

> > Reply-

> > Gita is mainly for Karma updesh, coming from Shree vachans of God

> Krishna. What is not there, is not, cannot be true. Because when

> Gita was said Arjuna was not in Gita, neither the Lord himself was

> in Gita. So are they not there ? One is the sayer one is the

> listener, they are not in Gita, but the cause of Gita. So are they

> not there? Computer was not there in Gita. So computer is not there?

> Because he did not say this, so this is not there or will not be?

> What rubbish.Dont quote great scriptures to bring in Your

ideologies.

>

> surya: In Gita, you will find, Arjuna Uvacha, Bhagavan Uvacha,

which

> mean Arjuna & Krishna were very much there. When you accept Krishna

> as Lord, whatever was preached by Him forms the scripture. This is

> the reference document for any believer of Krishna to pursue the

> spirituality and identify the contemporary human incarnation.

> Ofcourse such scripture is not required for those sitting on banks

> of river without getting in to water and commenting just for fun

> sake. In idol worship, elders say Lord exists in idol and we

blindly

> accept. There is no need of logic or analysis, which means Brahma

> Jnana is not at all required. Your arguments correspond to level of

> idol worship and hence need not be logical also.

> -----------------

> >> They should be protected and must be respected as the models of

> >> divine knowledge for the future ignorant devotees.

> > Reply.

> > You mean all Catholics going to Church and worshipping statue of

> Lord Jesus or The Virgin Mary are fools? You mean all Muslims going

> to Kaba are without intelligence? You mean all Hindus going to

> temples are idiots ? You mean Meerabai or Bhakta Surdasa

> > were ignorant devotees ? And You are smart? What great

> realisation on Your part. Do You think these great devotees did not

> have knowledge that God is everywhere? They definitely had this

> knowledge. Or did You think that these great devotees would limit

> their Gods to one statue ? and the space the statue occupies? what

> tragedic thinking. Would You not keep photos of Your loved ones

when

> they are no more physically with You?

>

> surya: The top most devotees who also turned out top most jnanis by

> achieving the top most laurels by pleasing the Lord are ....

>

> Hanuman, a topmost devotee identified Lord Rama and served Him and

> always said 'Dasoham kosalendrasya...' (I am servant to Lord Rama).

> He even performed many miracles also and still he has given credit

> of them to Rama only. For such worship, Lord has given future

> creator post to Hanuman.

>

> Peter, John, Luke... identified Lord Jesus by His divine knowledge

> and participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

>

> Gopikas identified and worshipped Lord Krishna, the then human

> incarnation only and got the highest fruit of top most Goloka.

Swami

> Vivekananda participated in the mission of propagation of divine

> knowledge on the order of the then human incarnation Rama Krishna

> Paramahamsa.

>

> Likewise the disciples of Adi Sankara worshipped Him as lord and

> latter on participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

>

> Meerabai is Radha only who learnt complete Brahma Jnana even before

> she borned as Radha and that is why she could identify Lord Krishna

> and worshipped Him. When Meerabai was worshipping Krishna, she

> underwent lot of troubles but still she did not leave her devotion

> and she also composed many bjajans out of her true devotion and

> propagated them as part propagation of bhakti in the masses. Where

> as if we worship Lord Krishna now and if any trouble comes we will

> leave the worship. If our desires are not fulfilled, we start

> scolding Lord. Our state represents complete ajnana and Meerabai

> state represents complete Brahma Jnani. But you are comparing

> ourselves with Meerabai.

>

> I will reply remaning comments if they are meaningful in another

> mail.

>

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar

>

> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

[Guest guest]

Lord Krishna preached Bhagavat Gita when Arjuna craved at His feet

for the divine knowledge. Lord Krishna stressed on Nishkama Karma

Yoga through out Gita. Nishkama means worshipping Lord without any

desire. Karma Yoga as stressed in Gita means Service. Service

consists of Karma Phala Tyaga (donating money for Lord's mission)

and Karma Sanyasa (physically participating in His mission). Gita

says 'Karma Yogena Yoginaam........' Karma means the acts done for

self and family, which are associated with selfishness. That is why

Lord stressed on Nishkma Karma yoga i.e., service to Lord only not

even Nishkama karma also.

 

This is the greatest distortion of Gita.

 

He comes down in human form to uplift all the human beings by

preaching the true divine knowledge. We have to identify such Lord

in human form by His divine knowledge (not by miracles because some

demons also have shown miracles but sofar nobody has preached divine

knowledge other than Lord in human form) and Serve Him here itself

for getting Liberation.

 

We have to identify the true path and travel in that direction even

a few steps, instead of running miles and miles away from the goal

(goal is pleasing the Lord). Until and unless true meaning of Gita

is enquired and practiced in their own life, the author of Gita,

Lord Krishna will never be pleased.

 

At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

"sriganeshh" <sriganeshh wrote:

> Dear Bhaskarji,

> good post...

> i hope these datta posts are moderated as it is clear distraction

> from the focus...this brings to my memory lord maclauy's vision

and ambition when he visited india to revamp its education

system...it is worth reading his speech some 170 years ago to the

british parliament ...all will come to know the greatness of india

and its vedic culture...and how systematically our vedic culture

has been destroyed for their selfish interests...how we are now

just playing as they wanted...

> regards

> sriganeshh

 

"bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > Gita is mainly for Karma updesh,

> > coming from Shree vachans of

> > God Krishna.

[Guest guest]

This time it was a better mail. Good. But You mentioned

something funny.It made me laugh.

 

You mentioned-

Karma Yoga as stressed in Gita means Service. Service

consists of Karma Phala Tyaga (donating money for Lord's mission).

 

 

which means..........

that You are doing Gods mision and everybody should donate money to

You.What funny ?

Karma Phala tyaga means doing duties without expactation....returns.

Not the meaning which You are trying to portray. Anyway I am doing

his mission. I want You to pay me money Rs,2 Lakhs as needed urgently.

I am a great lover of God and am carrying his mission. Since You are

able to see him in Human Form and worship Him too in that Form please

ask him whether I am doing His mission ornot, He will tell You.

Also next month I need Rs.10 Lakhs .Please donate ,because I am

carrying out his mission. I will be needing next year also about

Rs.25 lakhs. ask Him about that too.

 

Also I would like to know about Your authenticity of carrying out his

mission and dispersal of Funds...........

 

 

Shri Suryaji see I have nothing against You, neither want to accuse

You of anything neither want to come in Your way of collecting money

in Gods name. Taking His name will surely get You that. But please

put forward all Your Brahma Yoga talks properly without talking

otherwise about various great statements made by exalted personalities

in human Forms. By talking bad of others or distorting You cannot get

away with Your theories, or realise what You are after, which is

ultimately material wealth.

 

You will have my blessings if You carry out the name of God ,properly

without criticising others in line.

 

 

 

 

, "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> Lord Krishna preached Bhagavat Gita when Arjuna craved at His feet

> for the divine knowledge. Lord Krishna stressed on Nishkama Karma

> Yoga through out Gita. Nishkama means worshipping Lord without any

> desire. Karma Yoga as stressed in Gita means Service. Service

> consists of Karma Phala Tyaga (donating money for Lord's mission)

> and Karma Sanyasa (physically participating in His mission). Gita

> says 'Karma Yogena Yoginaam........' Karma means the acts done for

> self and family, which are associated with selfishness. That is why

> Lord stressed on Nishkma Karma yoga i.e., service to Lord only not

> even Nishkama karma also.

>

> This is the greatest distortion of Gita.

>

> He comes down in human form to uplift all the human beings by

> preaching the true divine knowledge. We have to identify such Lord

> in human form by His divine knowledge (not by miracles because some

> demons also have shown miracles but sofar nobody has preached

divine

> knowledge other than Lord in human form) and Serve Him here itself

> for getting Liberation.

>

> We have to identify the true path and travel in that direction even

> a few steps, instead of running miles and miles away from the goal

> (goal is pleasing the Lord). Until and unless true meaning of Gita

> is enquired and practiced in their own life, the author of Gita,

> Lord Krishna will never be pleased.

>

> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

>

> "sriganeshh" <sriganeshh@> wrote:

> > Dear Bhaskarji,

> > good post...

> > i hope these datta posts are moderated as it is clear distraction

> > from the focus...this brings to my memory lord maclauy's vision

> and ambition when he visited india to revamp its education

> system...it is worth reading his speech some 170 years ago to the

> british parliament ...all will come to know the greatness of india

> and its vedic culture...and how systematically our vedic culture

> has been destroyed for their selfish interests...how we are now

> just playing as they wanted...

> > regards

> > sriganeshh

>

> "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > Gita is mainly for Karma updesh,

> > > coming from Shree vachans of

> > > God Krishna.

>

[Guest guest]

You asked me whether I am following it or not? The answer is yes. I

have identified the lord in human form by the divine knowledge

preached by Him and serving Him in His mission by way of divine

knowledge propagation and contributing some money as per my capacity.

 

Here, in this mission of Lord datta Swamiji, only practical

knowledge is preached and propagated. No theoretical and imaginary

worships. Why to provide innumerable number of feasts to the Lord in

the imagination? Give Him a handful of rice in the reality.

 

At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

"bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> Dear Sri Ganesh,

> Not required actually because then You tend to get entangled in

> this replying busines thus essential time is lost which could have

> been utilsed for more fruitful....

> But dont worry, he is well paid missionary.,will come back

> periodically to distort statements from ........

> and push his ideologies....

>

> Bye.

> Bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhakta of Lord, bring God to me and I will also give him handful

rice in reality. Till the time at least allow me to give Him in

imagination. And dont think that others are not contributing as per

their pockets allow. Also uptil now I have not understood what You

are trying to tell us or achieve at by putting such posts. Are You

trying to show Your misplaced and displaced knowledge to us read

scattered from here and there, without any focus, or are You trying

to get some money for Your causes,whatever they may be,by talking all

mumbo jumbo on spiritual.I am perplexed by ignorance of Your aims.

It will be better if You straight away tell us that "You are all

fools and now listen to my sermons and become intelligent"

Or

"I need money for my uns....... activities, Please donate"

As simple as that.

Once we know what You are getting at, then probably we can sit down

together and solve Your problem , at least try to.

 

May God bless You for good activities,if any.

 

-- In , "surya" <dattapr2000

wrote:

>

> You asked me whether I am following it or not? The answer is yes. I

> have identified the lord in human form by the divine knowledge

> preached by Him and serving Him in His mission by way of divine

> knowledge propagation and contributing some money as per my

capacity.

>

> Here, in this mission of Lord datta Swamiji, only practical

> knowledge is preached and propagated. No theoretical and imaginary

> worships. Why to provide innumerable number of feasts to the Lord

in

> the imagination? Give Him a handful of rice in the reality.

>

> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

>

> "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > Dear Sri Ganesh,

> > Not required actually because then You tend to get entangled in

> > this replying busines thus essential time is lost which could

have

> > been utilsed for more fruitful....

> > But dont worry, he is well paid missionary.,will come back

> > periodically to distort statements from ........

> > and push his ideologies....

> >

> > Bye.

> > Bhaskar

>

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar Sri Bhaskar

 

You have wonderful understanding of the subject. Try not to change this

gentleman to your wisdom. He does not listen to anyone here. Instead, he

will argue and write 10 pages of email. You would only waste your time and

energy.

 

Remember - "Those in "vidya" are in greater darkness" - Isha Upanishad.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

On 8/1/06, bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:

>

> At times You are quoting Vedas, at times, The Gita, at times You are

> saying that Shankara said so, at times You are saying Krishna said so.

> But unfortunately You are not ableto synchronise all this to a common

> statement made by You. You have made a tasteless khichdi in that

> process.

> I have also seen Your Website, sorry to say but You talk about small

> cateogory devotees worshipping photos and statues. Then why have You

> been so enjoyful in placing one Human being in different dresses and

> showed him as avataras. Why are so many photos placed,for attracting

> small devotees ? To get finance or funding for distortion of the

> great scriptures ? You talk about statues and photo and yourself

> doing drama.

> I am sorry with due respect to that gentleman and to You too as You

> are the ansha of HIM only and not seperate, but your philosphies are

> totally misplaced.

> Talk about RajYoga only when You have crossed Bhakti Yoga. Dear

> You are not talking to some roadside fellow now, You are talking with

> a person who is well read., and again a devotee of God.

> But again, dont waste my time by unnecessary arguments, as my daily

> food and expenses is not funded by donations attracted by posting

> photos for gullible small devotees living in or outside India. If I

> had so much knowledge like You claim to possess I would have

> enlightened myself and my family first before going to the world.

> Please do not waste time over small devotee like me and neither yours

> (a big devotee)by replying.

>

>

> <%40>,

> "surya" <dattapr2000

> wrote:

> >

> > "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > >> The statue or photo is the inert object-

> > > Reply-

> > > But the context differs in many cases. In the context of

> comparing

> > with controlled consciousness and inert consciousness ,You may call

> > this Jada or inert. But when You are connecting to allegories, then

> > this stone cannot be inert. Take this stone to any good

> > scientist ,only a small piece would suffice, he would tell You of

> > the million protons,neutrons and ellectrons circulating in that

> > small stone. What do You call that energy in the context You used?

> > Inert?

> >

> > Surya: There is no logic in your statements and is not suitable

> when

> > one enters Jnana yoga or Brahma Vidya, where the divine knowledge

> > will be preached by Lord in human form (like krishna, Shankara...

> > but not Tagore, Gandhi, Nehru ...) with complete logic. The basic

> > requirement for receiving brahma jnana as per Shankara is Chitta

> > suddhi. Veda says 'Pratima alpa buddhinam', which indicates the

> > level of devotee doing idol worship. Lord krishna in human form

> only

> > preached Gita and not idols of His time. No further argument is

> > required for your objections.

> > --------------------------

> > >> Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come

> > in any other form. -

> > > Reply-

> > > Gita is mainly for Karma updesh, coming from Shree vachans of God

> > Krishna. What is not there, is not, cannot be true. Because when

> > Gita was said Arjuna was not in Gita, neither the Lord himself was

> > in Gita. So are they not there ? One is the sayer one is the

> > listener, they are not in Gita, but the cause of Gita. So are they

> > not there? Computer was not there in Gita. So computer is not there?

> > Because he did not say this, so this is not there or will not be?

> > What rubbish.Dont quote great scriptures to bring in Your

> ideologies.

> >

> > surya: In Gita, you will find, Arjuna Uvacha, Bhagavan Uvacha,

> which

> > mean Arjuna & Krishna were very much there. When you accept Krishna

> > as Lord, whatever was preached by Him forms the scripture. This is

> > the reference document for any believer of Krishna to pursue the

> > spirituality and identify the contemporary human incarnation.

> > Ofcourse such scripture is not required for those sitting on banks

> > of river without getting in to water and commenting just for fun

> > sake. In idol worship, elders say Lord exists in idol and we

> blindly

> > accept. There is no need of logic or analysis, which means Brahma

> > Jnana is not at all required. Your arguments correspond to level of

> > idol worship and hence need not be logical also.

> > -----------------

> > >> They should be protected and must be respected as the models of

> > >> divine knowledge for the future ignorant devotees.

> > > Reply.

> > > You mean all Catholics going to Church and worshipping statue of

> > Lord Jesus or The Virgin Mary are fools? You mean all Muslims going

> > to Kaba are without intelligence? You mean all Hindus going to

> > temples are idiots ? You mean Meerabai or Bhakta Surdasa

> > > were ignorant devotees ? And You are smart? What great

> > realisation on Your part. Do You think these great devotees did not

> > have knowledge that God is everywhere? They definitely had this

> > knowledge. Or did You think that these great devotees would limit

> > their Gods to one statue ? and the space the statue occupies? what

> > tragedic thinking. Would You not keep photos of Your loved ones

> when

> > they are no more physically with You?

> >

> > surya: The top most devotees who also turned out top most jnanis by

> > achieving the top most laurels by pleasing the Lord are ....

> >

> > Hanuman, a topmost devotee identified Lord Rama and served Him and

> > always said 'Dasoham kosalendrasya...' (I am servant to Lord Rama).

> > He even performed many miracles also and still he has given credit

> > of them to Rama only. For such worship, Lord has given future

> > creator post to Hanuman.

> >

> > Peter, John, Luke... identified Lord Jesus by His divine knowledge

> > and participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

> >

> > Gopikas identified and worshipped Lord Krishna, the then human

> > incarnation only and got the highest fruit of top most Goloka.

> Swami

> > Vivekananda participated in the mission of propagation of divine

> > knowledge on the order of the then human incarnation Rama Krishna

> > Paramahamsa.

> >

> > Likewise the disciples of Adi Sankara worshipped Him as lord and

> > latter on participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

> >

> > Meerabai is Radha only who learnt complete Brahma Jnana even before

> > she borned as Radha and that is why she could identify Lord Krishna

> > and worshipped Him. When Meerabai was worshipping Krishna, she

> > underwent lot of troubles but still she did not leave her devotion

> > and she also composed many bjajans out of her true devotion and

> > propagated them as part propagation of bhakti in the masses. Where

> > as if we worship Lord Krishna now and if any trouble comes we will

> > leave the worship. If our desires are not fulfilled, we start

> > scolding Lord. Our state represents complete ajnana and Meerabai

> > state represents complete Brahma Jnani. But you are comparing

> > ourselves with Meerabai.

> >

> > I will reply remaning comments if they are meaningful in another

> > mail.

> >

> > > regards,

> > > Bhaskar

> >

> > At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> > surya

> > www.universal-spirituality.org

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Surya ji

 

see, the priorities and religious rituals for sanyasi and sansarik is different; and all religions prescribe different norms for both. You can not or rather should not assume that sansarik human being (grasth) can be asked with the same yard sticks.

 

Tulsidas ji ne kaha ki - sansarik prani ram nam lene se hi acchi gati pa sakta hi; jabki, sadhu ko tapasya karni padto hi.

 

I must quote you a famous movie "chitra lekha" starrring pradeep kumar and mina kumari. and there is famous song - sansar se bhage phirta ho, bhagwan ko tum kys paoga; eis jeevan ko apna ne sake, us jiven ko kya apnaoge....Towards the end of climax - sadhu ashok kumar tries to rape the mina kumari and mina kumari, who is playing the role of prostitute - becomes sadhvi..

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Lincoln studied by the light of a fireplace. Mozart composed by candlelight.. Galileo invented by oil lamp. Didn't they ever think to do their work during the daytime?

 

 

>

> gbp_kumar

> Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:16:02 -0700 (PDT)

>

> Re: Idol Worship 1/8

>

> Surya,

> this posts of urs on datta and saying all other images, idols practices

> r useless will render the faith v weak already targeted by numerous

> fakes around and mas conversions by imperialistic faiths.

>

> u need an image to concentrate or associate ur payers any day while

> living in the mundane world striving to earn a living for the self,

> family and society too many do help one another in distress whether he

> can afford or not. and times of stress no image may not help

> Rather helps in the bhakta briging his wandering mind back

> for saints or ones who have given up the need to work bu giving all

> they have to the ashrams and then living in a sheltered life no need to

> earn we can say any thing which wont help the normal person

> the CHURCH HAS SUFFERED DUE TO over SIMPLIFICATION- the bible was a

> fore bidden one for ages once it became common it was good for a short

> time, now so simple that like any novel can be part of ur bookshelf,

> not ur life.

> simplification of the faith so simple u need to send church only at

> weddings, funerals , funerals u can mail order a wreath too weddings u

> can do same send a bouquet slowly need to go is gone now u can outsource

> prayers as u see Kerala churches pray for UK bhaktas

> in France for 45 churches there is one priest who does all from baptism

> to grave for all but as he cant be every where funeral surely he is and

> the other regular church goers does the MAKE SHIFT priest for weddign,

> baptism etc.

>

> the Church attendance in US is hardly 1 % and Europe 2-2.5.% percent in

> India and Asia where massive conversion is on there is good attendance

> till how they foresaked Hinduism same trend will catch up and will throw

> church also like their westerners.

>

> but having some faith is no harm than no faith, we don't have joint

> families or elders to guide small issues, stress of young weds and

> marriages are breaking families torn apart let there be order, faith in

> some way once we remove symbols we loose the mansion brick by brick ur

> concepts r good for the person who has seen all stages of line not ones

> struggling up the ladder.

>

> u can 1st see people have faith 1st now only IDOL or GOD i money none

> else so try to get the image shifted then we can look at the idol u

> said.

>

> LET THEIR BE FAITH, IDOLS, SYMBOLS, DELIGHT IN THE WORKMANSHIP OF

> FELLOW HUMANS who earn a living even making them, taking care of them

> worshipping them or even smuggling them to richer pastures.

>

>

>

> surya <dattapr2000 > wrote:

> You asked me whether I am following it or not? The answer is yes. I

> have identified the lord in human form by the divine knowledge

> preached by Him and serving Him in His mission by way of divine

> knowledge propagation and contributing some money as per my capacity.

>

> Here, in this mission of Lord datta Swamiji, only practical

> knowledge is preached and propagated. No theoretical and imaginary

> worships. Why to provide innumerable number of feasts to the Lord in

> the imagination? Give Him a handful of rice in the reality.

>

> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

> "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> > Dear Sri Ganesh,

> > Not required actually because then You tend to get entangled in

> > this replying busines thus essential time is lost which could have

> > been utilsed for more fruitful....

> > But dont worry, he is well paid missionary.,will come back

> > periodically to distort statements from ........

> > and push his ideologies....

> >

> > Bye.

> > Bhaskar

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Prashantkumar G B

>

> -*- The services of this astrologer are free on group

> but

> off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or phone.

> Please fix times for this in advance -*-

> 09840051861

>

>

>

>

>

> Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes, even this movie is great in philosophic terms..it tells the definition of paap and punya. it is all to one's sakshi maan..which defines it as paap or punya

 

and the lines of the song - yeh jeevan ek tapasya hi - yeh tum bairagi kya jano......

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Lincoln studied by the light of a fireplace. Mozart composed by candlelight.. Galileo invented by oil lamp. Didn't they ever think to do their work during the daytime?

 

 

>

> bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in

> Tue, 01 Aug 2006 18:41:07 -0000

>

> Re: Idol Worship 1/8

>

> Yes Sir, its easy for a grahasta to reach God by performing his daily

> karmas alloted to him, while much harder for a tapasvi .

> This song is very good to hear and beautiful wordings.

>

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Surya ji

>>

>> see, the priorities and religious rituals for sanyasi and sansarik

> is different; and all religions prescribe different norms for both.

> You can not or rather should not assume that sansarik human being

> (grasth) can be asked with the same yard sticks.

>>

>> Tulsidas ji ne kaha ki - sansarik prani ram nam lene se hi acchi

> gati pa sakta hi; jabki, sadhu ko tapasya karni padto hi.

>>

>> I must quote you a famous movie "chitra lekha" starrring pradeep

> kumar and mina kumari. and there is famous song - sansar se bhage

> phirta ho, bhagwan ko tum kys paoga; eis jeevan ko apna ne sake, us

> jiven ko kya apnaoge....Towards the end of climax - sadhu ashok kumar

> tries to rape the mina kumari and mina kumari, who is playing the

> role of prostitute - becomes sadhvi..

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Lincoln studied by the light of a fireplace. Mozart composed by

> candlelight. Galileo invented by oil lamp. Didn't they ever think to

> do their work during the daytime?

>>

>>

>>>

>>> gbp_kumar

>>> Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:16:02 -0700 (PDT)

>>>

>>> Re: Idol Worship 1/8

>>>

>>> Surya,

>>> this posts of urs on datta and saying all other images, idols

> practices

>>> r useless will render the faith v weak already targeted by

> numerous

>>> fakes around and mas conversions by imperialistic faiths.

>>>

>>> u need an image to concentrate or associate ur payers any day

> while

>>> living in the mundane world striving to earn a living for the

> self,

>>> family and society too many do help one another in distress

> whether he

>>> can afford or not. and times of stress no image may not help

>>> Rather helps in the bhakta briging his wandering mind back

>>> for saints or ones who have given up the need to work bu giving

> all

>>> they have to the ashrams and then living in a sheltered life no

> need to

>>> earn we can say any thing which wont help the normal person

>>> the CHURCH HAS SUFFERED DUE TO over SIMPLIFICATION- the bible

> was a

>>> fore bidden one for ages once it became common it was good for a

> short

>>> time, now so simple that like any novel can be part of ur

> bookshelf,

>>> not ur life.

>>> simplification of the faith so simple u need to send church

> only at

>>> weddings, funerals , funerals u can mail order a wreath too

> weddings u

>>> can do same send a bouquet slowly need to go is gone now u can

> outsource

>>> prayers as u see Kerala churches pray for UK bhaktas

>>> in France for 45 churches there is one priest who does all from

> baptism

>>> to grave for all but as he cant be every where funeral surely he

> is and

>>> the other regular church goers does the MAKE SHIFT priest for

> weddign,

>>> baptism etc.

>>>

>>> the Church attendance in US is hardly 1 % and Europe 2-2.5.%

> percent in

>>> India and Asia where massive conversion is on there is good

> attendance

>>> till how they foresaked Hinduism same trend will catch up and

> will throw

>>> church also like their westerners.

>>>

>>> but having some faith is no harm than no faith, we don't have

> joint

>>> families or elders to guide small issues, stress of young weds and

>>> marriages are breaking families torn apart let there be order,

> faith in

>>> some way once we remove symbols we loose the mansion brick by

> brick ur

>>> concepts r good for the person who has seen all stages of line

> not ones

>>> struggling up the ladder.

>>>

>>> u can 1st see people have faith 1st now only IDOL or GOD i

> money none

>>> else so try to get the image shifted then we can look at the

> idol u

>>> said.

>>>

>>> LET THEIR BE FAITH, IDOLS, SYMBOLS, DELIGHT IN THE WORKMANSHIP

> OF

>>> FELLOW HUMANS who earn a living even making them, taking care of

> them

>>> worshipping them or even smuggling them to richer pastures.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> surya <dattapr2000 wrote:

>>> You asked me whether I am following it or not? The answer is yes.

> I

>>> have identified the lord in human form by the divine knowledge

>>> preached by Him and serving Him in His mission by way of divine

>>> knowledge propagation and contributing some money as per my

> capacity.

>>>

>>> Here, in this mission of Lord datta Swamiji, only practical

>>> knowledge is preached and propagated. No theoretical and

> imaginary

>>> worships. Why to provide innumerable number of feasts to the

> Lord in

>>> the imagination? Give Him a handful of rice in the reality.

>>>

>>> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

>>> surya

>>> www.universal-spirituality.org

>>>

>>> "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

>>> > Dear Sri Ganesh,

>>> > Not required actually because then You tend to get entangled

> in

>>> > this replying busines thus essential time is lost which could

> have

>>> > been utilsed for more fruitful....

>>> > But dont worry, he is well paid missionary.,will come back

>>> > periodically to distort statements from ........

>>> > and push his ideologies....

>>> >

>>> > Bye.

>>> > Bhaskar

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Prashantkumar G B

>>>

>>> -*- The services of this astrologer are free on

> group

>>> but

>>> off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or

> phone.

>>> Please fix times for this in advance -*-

>>> 09840051861

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy

> changes to

>>> .

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

Bhaskar Bhai

 

ok sir..exit executed.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Lincoln studied by the light of a fireplace. Mozart composed by candlelight.. Galileo invented by oil lamp. Didn't they ever think to do their work during the daytime?

 

 

>

> bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in

> Tue, 01 Aug 2006 18:54:29 -0000

>

> Re: Idol Worship 1/8

>

> Prafulla Sir,

>

> Bairagi adhe maje toh jeevan ke loot nahin pate.

> Daya kariye unpar.

> Ab chod dijiye unko,

>

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> yes, even this movie is great in philosophic terms..it tells the

> definition of paap and punya. it is all to one's sakshi maan..which

> defines it as paap or punya

>>

>> and the lines of the song - yeh jeevan ek tapasya hi - yeh tum

> bairagi kya jano......

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Lincoln studied by the light of a fireplace. Mozart composed by

> candlelight. Galileo invented by oil lamp. Didn't they ever think to

> do their work during the daytime?

>>

>>

>>>

>>> bhaskar_jyotish

>>> Tue, 01 Aug 2006 18:41:07 -0000

>>>

>>> Re: Idol Worship 1/8

>>>

>>> Yes Sir, its easy for a grahasta to reach God by performing his

> daily

>>> karmas alloted to him, while much harder for a tapasvi .

>>> This song is very good to hear and beautiful wordings.

>>>

>>>

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Dear Surya ji

>>>>

>>>> see, the priorities and religious rituals for sanyasi and

> sansarik

>>> is different; and all religions prescribe different norms for

> both.

>>> You can not or rather should not assume that sansarik human being

>>> (grasth) can be asked with the same yard sticks.

>>>>

>>>> Tulsidas ji ne kaha ki - sansarik prani ram nam lene se hi acchi

>>> gati pa sakta hi; jabki, sadhu ko tapasya karni padto hi.

>>>>

>>>> I must quote you a famous movie "chitra lekha" starrring pradeep

>>> kumar and mina kumari. and there is famous song - sansar se bhage

>>> phirta ho, bhagwan ko tum kys paoga; eis jeevan ko apna ne sake,

> us

>>> jiven ko kya apnaoge....Towards the end of climax - sadhu ashok

> kumar

>>> tries to rape the mina kumari and mina kumari, who is playing the

>>> role of prostitute - becomes sadhvi..

>>>>

>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>

>>>> Lincoln studied by the light of a fireplace. Mozart composed by

>>> candlelight. Galileo invented by oil lamp. Didn't they ever think

> to

>>> do their work during the daytime?

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> gbp_kumar@

>>>>> Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:16:02 -0700 (PDT)

>>>>>

>>>>> Re: Idol Worship 1/8

>>>>>

>>>>> Surya,

>>>>> this posts of urs on datta and saying all other images, idols

>>> practices

>>>>> r useless will render the faith v weak already targeted by

>>> numerous

>>>>> fakes around and mas conversions by imperialistic faiths.

>>>>>

>>>>> u need an image to concentrate or associate ur payers any day

>>> while

>>>>> living in the mundane world striving to earn a living for the

>>> self,

>>>>> family and society too many do help one another in distress

>>> whether he

>>>>> can afford or not. and times of stress no image may not help

>>>>> Rather helps in the bhakta briging his wandering mind back

>>>>> for saints or ones who have given up the need to work bu

> giving

>>> all

>>>>> they have to the ashrams and then living in a sheltered life no

>>> need to

>>>>> earn we can say any thing which wont help the normal person

>>>>> the CHURCH HAS SUFFERED DUE TO over SIMPLIFICATION- the bible

>>> was a

>>>>> fore bidden one for ages once it became common it was good for a

>>> short

>>>>> time, now so simple that like any novel can be part of ur

>>> bookshelf,

>>>>> not ur life.

>>>>> simplification of the faith so simple u need to send church

>>> only at

>>>>> weddings, funerals , funerals u can mail order a wreath too

>>> weddings u

>>>>> can do same send a bouquet slowly need to go is gone now u can

>>> outsource

>>>>> prayers as u see Kerala churches pray for UK bhaktas

>>>>> in France for 45 churches there is one priest who does all

> from

>>> baptism

>>>>> to grave for all but as he cant be every where funeral surely he

>>> is and

>>>>> the other regular church goers does the MAKE SHIFT priest for

>>> weddign,

>>>>> baptism etc.

>>>>>

>>>>> the Church attendance in US is hardly 1 % and Europe 2-2.5.%

>>> percent in

>>>>> India and Asia where massive conversion is on there is good

>>> attendance

>>>>> till how they foresaked Hinduism same trend will catch up and

>>> will throw

>>>>> church also like their westerners.

>>>>>

>>>>> but having some faith is no harm than no faith, we don't have

>>> joint

>>>>> families or elders to guide small issues, stress of young weds

> and

>>>>> marriages are breaking families torn apart let there be order,

>>> faith in

>>>>> some way once we remove symbols we loose the mansion brick by

>>> brick ur

>>>>> concepts r good for the person who has seen all stages of line

>>> not ones

>>>>> struggling up the ladder.

>>>>>

>>>>> u can 1st see people have faith 1st now only IDOL or GOD i

>>> money none

>>>>> else so try to get the image shifted then we can look at the

>>> idol u

>>>>> said.

>>>>>

>>>>> LET THEIR BE FAITH, IDOLS, SYMBOLS, DELIGHT IN THE

> WORKMANSHIP

>>> OF

>>>>> FELLOW HUMANS who earn a living even making them, taking care

> of

>>> them

>>>>> worshipping them or even smuggling them to richer pastures.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> surya <dattapr2000@> wrote:

>>>>> You asked me whether I am following it or not? The answer is

> yes.

>>> I

>>>>> have identified the lord in human form by the divine knowledge

>>>>> preached by Him and serving Him in His mission by way of

> divine

>>>>> knowledge propagation and contributing some money as per my

>>> capacity.

>>>>>

>>>>> Here, in this mission of Lord datta Swamiji, only practical

>>>>> knowledge is preached and propagated. No theoretical and

>>> imaginary

>>>>> worships. Why to provide innumerable number of feasts to the

>>> Lord in

>>>>> the imagination? Give Him a handful of rice in the reality.

>>>>>

>>>>> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

>>>>> surya

>>>>> www.universal-spirituality.org

>>>>>

>>>>> "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

>>>>> > Dear Sri Ganesh,

>>>>> > Not required actually because then You tend to get entangled

>>> in

>>>>> > this replying busines thus essential time is lost which

> could

>>> have

>>>>> > been utilsed for more fruitful....

>>>>> > But dont worry, he is well paid missionary.,will come back

>>>>> > periodically to distort statements from ........

>>>>> > and push his ideologies....

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Bye.

>>>>> > Bhaskar

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Prashantkumar G B

>>>>>

>>>>> -*- The services of this astrologer are free on

>>> group

>>>>> but

>>>>> off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or

>>> phone.

>>>>> Please fix times for this in advance -*-

>>>>> 09840051861

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy

>>> changes to

>>>>> .

>>>>>

>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bharat ji

 

very well said. I too just got into thread, in a very funny moment. so excuse me for my funny notes.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Lincoln studied by the light of a fireplace. Mozart composed by candlelight.. Galileo invented by oil lamp. Didn't they ever think to do their work during the daytime?

 

 

>

> hinduastrology

> Tue, 1 Aug 2006 23:16:14 +0530

>

> Re: Re: Idol Worship

>

> Namaskaar Sri Bhaskar

>

> You have wonderful understanding of the subject. Try not to change this

> gentleman to your wisdom. He does not listen to anyone here. Instead, he

> will argue and write 10 pages of email. You would only waste your time

> and

> energy.

>

> Remember - "Those in "vidya" are in greater darkness" - Isha Upanishad.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

> On 8/1/06, bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:

>>

>> At times You are quoting Vedas, at times, The Gita, at times You are

>> saying that Shankara said so, at times You are saying Krishna said so.

>> But unfortunately You are not ableto synchronise all this to a common

>> statement made by You. You have made a tasteless khichdi in that

>> process.

>> I have also seen Your Website, sorry to say but You talk about small

>> cateogory devotees worshipping photos and statues. Then why have You

>> been so enjoyful in placing one Human being in different dresses and

>> showed him as avataras. Why are so many photos placed,for attracting

>> small devotees ? To get finance or funding for distortion of the

>> great scriptures ? You talk about statues and photo and yourself

>> doing drama.

>> I am sorry with due respect to that gentleman and to You too as You

>> are the ansha of HIM only and not seperate, but your philosphies are

>> totally misplaced.

>> Talk about RajYoga only when You have crossed Bhakti Yoga. Dear

>> You are not talking to some roadside fellow now, You are talking with

>> a person who is well read., and again a devotee of God.

>> But again, dont waste my time by unnecessary arguments, as my daily

>> food and expenses is not funded by donations attracted by posting

>> photos for gullible small devotees living in or outside India. If I

>> had so much knowledge like You claim to possess I would have

>> enlightened myself and my family first before going to the world.

>> Please do not waste time over small devotee like me and neither yours

>> (a big devotee)by replying.

>>

>>

>> --- In

>> <%40>,

>> "surya" <dattapr2000

>> wrote:

>>>

>>> "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

>>>

>>>>> The statue or photo is the inert object-

>>>> Reply-

>>>> But the context differs in many cases. In the context of

>> comparing

>>> with controlled consciousness and inert consciousness ,You may call

>>> this Jada or inert. But when You are connecting to allegories, then

>>> this stone cannot be inert. Take this stone to any good

>>> scientist ,only a small piece would suffice, he would tell You of

>>> the million protons,neutrons and ellectrons circulating in that

>>> small stone. What do You call that energy in the context You used?

>>> Inert?

>>>

>>> Surya: There is no logic in your statements and is not suitable

>> when

>>> one enters Jnana yoga or Brahma Vidya, where the divine knowledge

>>> will be preached by Lord in human form (like krishna, Shankara...

>>> but not Tagore, Gandhi, Nehru ...) with complete logic. The basic

>>> requirement for receiving brahma jnana as per Shankara is Chitta

>>> suddhi. Veda says 'Pratima alpa buddhinam', which indicates the

>>> level of devotee doing idol worship. Lord krishna in human form

>> only

>>> preached Gita and not idols of His time. No further argument is

>>> required for your objections.

>>> --------------------------

>>>>> Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord would come

>>> in any other form. -

>>>> Reply-

>>>> Gita is mainly for Karma updesh, coming from Shree vachans of God

>>> Krishna. What is not there, is not, cannot be true. Because when

>>> Gita was said Arjuna was not in Gita, neither the Lord himself was

>>> in Gita. So are they not there ? One is the sayer one is the

>>> listener, they are not in Gita, but the cause of Gita. So are they

>>> not there? Computer was not there in Gita. So computer is not there?

>>> Because he did not say this, so this is not there or will not be?

>>> What rubbish.Dont quote great scriptures to bring in Your

>> ideologies.

>>>

>>> surya: In Gita, you will find, Arjuna Uvacha, Bhagavan Uvacha,

>> which

>>> mean Arjuna & Krishna were very much there. When you accept Krishna

>>> as Lord, whatever was preached by Him forms the scripture. This is

>>> the reference document for any believer of Krishna to pursue the

>>> spirituality and identify the contemporary human incarnation.

>>> Ofcourse such scripture is not required for those sitting on banks

>>> of river without getting in to water and commenting just for fun

>>> sake. In idol worship, elders say Lord exists in idol and we

>> blindly

>>> accept. There is no need of logic or analysis, which means Brahma

>>> Jnana is not at all required. Your arguments correspond to level of

>>> idol worship and hence need not be logical also.

>>> -----------------

>>>>> They should be protected and must be respected as the models of

>>>>> divine knowledge for the future ignorant devotees.

>>>> Reply.

>>>> You mean all Catholics going to Church and worshipping statue of

>>> Lord Jesus or The Virgin Mary are fools? You mean all Muslims going

>>> to Kaba are without intelligence? You mean all Hindus going to

>>> temples are idiots ? You mean Meerabai or Bhakta Surdasa

>>>> were ignorant devotees ? And You are smart? What great

>>> realisation on Your part. Do You think these great devotees did not

>>> have knowledge that God is everywhere? They definitely had this

>>> knowledge. Or did You think that these great devotees would limit

>>> their Gods to one statue ? and the space the statue occupies? what

>>> tragedic thinking. Would You not keep photos of Your loved ones

>> when

>>> they are no more physically with You?

>>>

>>> surya: The top most devotees who also turned out top most jnanis by

>>> achieving the top most laurels by pleasing the Lord are ....

>>>

>>> Hanuman, a topmost devotee identified Lord Rama and served Him and

>>> always said 'Dasoham kosalendrasya...' (I am servant to Lord Rama).

>>> He even performed many miracles also and still he has given credit

>>> of them to Rama only. For such worship, Lord has given future

>>> creator post to Hanuman.

>>>

>>> Peter, John, Luke... identified Lord Jesus by His divine knowledge

>>> and participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

>>>

>>> Gopikas identified and worshipped Lord Krishna, the then human

>>> incarnation only and got the highest fruit of top most Goloka.

>> Swami

>>> Vivekananda participated in the mission of propagation of divine

>>> knowledge on the order of the then human incarnation Rama Krishna

>>> Paramahamsa.

>>>

>>> Likewise the disciples of Adi Sankara worshipped Him as lord and

>>> latter on participated in the propagation of divine knowledge.

>>>

>>> Meerabai is Radha only who learnt complete Brahma Jnana even before

>>> she borned as Radha and that is why she could identify Lord Krishna

>>> and worshipped Him. When Meerabai was worshipping Krishna, she

>>> underwent lot of troubles but still she did not leave her devotion

>>> and she also composed many bjajans out of her true devotion and

>>> propagated them as part propagation of bhakti in the masses. Where

>>> as if we worship Lord Krishna now and if any trouble comes we will

>>> leave the worship. If our desires are not fulfilled, we start

>>> scolding Lord. Our state represents complete ajnana and Meerabai

>>> state represents complete Brahma Jnani. But you are comparing

>>> ourselves with Meerabai.

>>>

>>> I will reply remaning comments if they are meaningful in another

>>> mail.

>>>

>>>> regards,

>>>> Bhaskar

>>>

>>> At the lotus feet of Shri Datta Swami

>>> surya

>>> www.universal-spirituality.org

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>