Can an Acharya be wrong?!

[Guest guest]

 

Putting faith in Ronald McDonald's followers will not help anyone to attain spiritual perfection.

 

Putting BLIND FAITH in a Guru is not the right way either, this is what cult followers do to their own demise.

 

I am reminded how one Guru praised his disciples for spying on him; because they wanted to know if he practiced what he preached.

 

Many Gurus have praised their disciples for testing them, because that shows a disciple who is sincere looking to Know who is a Master, rather than just blindly following everything someone who calls themselves a Guru tells them.

 

Also, a Guru does not neccesarily know EVERYTHING, especially about scientific matters, which they have not thorougly studied. There expertise is in Yoga and spirituality.

 

 

The title of this topic should better read "Can all the Acharyas be wrong?", because any acharya that accepts Srimad Bhagavatam has to accept what the Bhagavatam says that the Moon is further than the Sun.

 

Wrong.. I know many Gaudiyas that don't believe the moon is farther than the sun. These are some of the most balanced and non-fanatical of devotees. The ones you can actually have convo with, without them getting all weird on you.

[Guest guest]

 

If Acharyas are 100% infallible, how come Vaishnava acharayas of different sampradayas have disagreements on doctrine. Srivaisnavas, Gaudiyas, and Madhva acharyas do not all teach the exact same thing on every issue. They have different understanding or teachings on some of the finer points. So how can they all be said to be infallible on spiritual teaching?

Wait a minute, how come Gaudiya acharyas differ and amongst Gaudiya acharyas Saraswat Gaudiyas (including ISKCON) differ?

Answer:

"Even amongst our God-brothers we have misunderstanding but none of us is astray from the service of Krishna. My Guru Maharaja ordered us to execute his mission combinedly. Unfortunately we are now separated. But none of us have stopped preaching Krishna Consciousness. Even if there was misunderstanding amongst the God-brothers of my Guru Maharaja none of them deviated from the transcendental loving service of Krishna."

Srila Prabhupada to Brahmananda, letter, 11/18/67

So because they are never deviated from the "transcendental loving service of Krishna" they are considered infallable. In other words they don't fall down from the transcendental platform. There are differences in doctrine by the will of Krsna so that there are different devotees of different manifestations of Bhagavan in different rasas. There is also the tathasta vichar or viewing everthing as a gradation based on the philosophy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

[Guest guest]

 

So, Buddha said that we should put our faith in what we can verify with our impefect and contaminated material senses?

 

Buddha came to cheat atheists.

If you want to be cheated, then you can follow Buddha.

 

If you rely on your physical senses to verify spiritual knowledge, then you will live in a dark closet for eternity.

 

Stop making up slander against Buddha's teachings. Buddha taught us to gain direct experience/awareness thru meditation. He did not teach people to have BLIND FAITH in elders, because elders can be often wrong.

 

There is no way to know if someone is 100% right on something, until you have realized it yourself. This is what the greek mystics called gnosis (inner awareness), and Buddha was pointing us to the experience of gnosis.

 

The external Guru is there to point you to your Inner Guru. This is why the Bible says call NO MAN upon the earth your Teacher or Master. Because the Bible is saying the True Teacher/Master is within.

 

The outer religions of the world are filled with people following dogmas that have been handed down to them, and this is what Buddha condemned.

[Guest guest]

 

Stop making up slander against Buddha's teachings.

 

Don't accuse me of making it up.

Buddha rejected the Vedas and decried animal sacrifice.

He cheated the people by decrying the Vedas.

He taught that spiritual suicide and dissolving one's individual existence was the perfection.

 

all the Vaishnava acharyas have taught that Buddha preached a cheating doctrine.

 

If you want to decry all the Vaishnava gurus, then that is your choice.

I didn't make it up myself.

 

Buddha was sunyavadi.

He advocated merging into the great void beyond the material cosmos.

 

That realm is just the vacuum of space that divides the spiritual sky from the material worlds.

 

it is far from the highest perfection.

[Guest guest]

 

Don't accuse me of making it up.

Buddha rejected the Vedas and decried animal sacrifice.

 

So do Jains. Animal sacrifice can be seen to go against ahimsa.

 

 

He taught that spiritual suicide and dissolving one's individual existence was the perfection.

 

Here I agree with you, that the Buddhist teaching on the Self is distorted and imcomplete. If by false Self, they mean the Ego, that is one thing. But when they deny the atman, then they have gone too far.

 

However, this has NOTHING to do with the quote posted, which is indeed wise advice... and is not just something stated by Buddha. Many Hindu Gurus have stated the same thing. Real Gurus do not want blind followers, only cult leaders do.

[Guest guest]

 

So do Jains. Animal sacrifice can be seen to go against ahimsa.

 

 

 

Here I agree with you, that the Buddhist teaching on the Self is distorted and imcomplete. If by false Self, they mean the Ego, that is one thing. But when they deny the atman, then they have gone too far.

 

However, this has NOTHING to do with the quote posted, which is indeed wise advice... and is not just something stated by Buddha. Many Hindu Gurus have stated the same thing. Real Gurus do not want blind followers, only cult leaders do.

 

Hindu gurus?

Hinduism has over a hundred different cults and sects.

 

Trying to lump Gaudiya Vaishnava acharyas into a broad category of "Hindu gurus" is great blunder.

 

We are not concerned with what "Hindu gurus" say.

 

We are concerned to accept the Srimad Bhagavatam as the amala purana, the spotless purana that has been approved by Mahaprabhu.

 

In Gaudiya Vaishnava dharma it is these "books" that you say we cannot depend on that are the basis of the doctrine and nobody has any authority to change what has been given in these "books".

 

We cannot confirm or discredit with our dull senses the great esoteric mysteries of the universe.

 

Faith means FAITH.

 

If we don't have have in shastra, then we are nowhere because we will only be depending on our dull senses for knowledge.

 

Rejecting what shastra says in favor of what the buffoons at NASA say has nothing to do with spiritual faith.

[Guest guest]

 

Hindu gurus?

Hinduism has over a hundred different cults and sects.

 

what is your point? all Vedic/Hindu sects have a Guru-shisya system. Other religions, do not believe in Guru worship or disciplic succession. They are centered around either one historical founder or ancient mythologies, or a set of teachings.

 

 

Trying to lump Gaudiya Vaishnava acharyas into a broad category of "Hindu gurus" is great blunder.

 

Who is trying to lump? this forum has sections for all Hindu sects, including 3 to shakta email lists, and entire section dedicated to Hinduism. So I did not realize all posts had to be about Gaudiya Gurus only?

 

Gaudiya Gurus are one sect of Vedics. Of course they may be at odds with Gurus of other Vedic sects, like Sri Vaishnavas, Saivites or Smarta Gurus. But still all the real Gurus, do not want you to blindly follow all they say. They want to lead you to spiritual knowing yourself.

 

Blind followers of a spiritual leader, who do what ever they say, is known as cultism. And many have suffered because of cult leaders telling them things, that hurt them either in their personal life or separated them from their family.

 

 

We are concerned to accept the Srimad Bhagavatam as the amala purana, the spotless purana that has been approved by Mahaprabhu.

 

and other sects have there own agamas or puranas they put in higher regard.

 

Anyway, most sampradayas will tell you that their texts are not to be followed blindly, but to be understood in proper context, and under proper direction. Gurus teach the inner meaning of their sacred texts to their shisyas... and if they are speaking from an enlighened KNOWING, than what they are teaching won't contradict reality.

 

 

We cannot confirm or discredit with our dull senses the great esoteric mysteries of the universe.

 

can your eyes tell you if the sky is blue or not? or could it possibly be red, and we are all deluded into thinking it is blue? just like you think we are deluded into thinking the moon is closer than the sun?

 

 

Faith means FAITH.

 

Vedanta is not a blind faith religion. Vedanta is a scientific religion (spiritual science).

 

 

Rejecting what shastra says in favor of what the buffoons at NASA say has nothing to do with spiritual faith.

 

your repeated attacks on NASA are quite childish. Calling them ASStronauts and drunkards, what is your problem? they aren't the only people to say the moon is closer. Why would they say the moon is farther, just because a few Hare Krishna fanatics say it is? they should go by what you say, and throw away all evidence to the contrary? You want NASA to become Hare Krishnas, destroy their telescopes, and preach SB, or else you call them names. Yeah, that's a real advanced scientific approach for you..

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vedanta is not a blind faith religion. Vedanta is a scientific religion (spiritual science).

 

 

.

 

So, I guess blind faith in NASA is OK but faith in the guru is not?

 

NASA has not taken you to the Moon.

All you have is faith in what they say.

There is no proof.

You are just accepting on faith what NASA says.

 

So, I guess blind faith in scientists is acceptable but not faith the pure devotees of God?

 

You can put your faith in NASA.

I'll put mine in the acharya who sees through the eyes of shastra.

[Guest guest]

So the topic of the thread is Can an Acharya be Wrong?

 

But, how about if we say Can NASA be wrong?

 

You say "no, no NASA cannot be wrong they have perfect knowledge".

 

We say................................ thats a load of manure.

 

If God wants to perform some magic, some illusions to baffle scientists and demons, then there is NOBODY that can avoid that trick of God.

 

NASA cannot break down the defenses of God and the demigods.

 

They are puppets on the strings of illusion.

 

NASA sees a mirage in the sky and they think they have all the answers.

 

They grind up some silicone and make a glass lense and now they understand the universe.

 

Can man understand the universe by looking through ground-up silicone?

[Guest guest]

I'd just like to say that I find it very enlightening reading your discussions here. You're all very intelligent and you make some interesting points. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to communicate and educate us all.

 

-slw

[Guest guest]

 

So, I guess blind faith in NASA is OK but faith in the guru is not?

 

NASA has not taken you to the Moon.

All you have is faith in what they say.

There is no proof.

You are just accepting on faith what NASA says.

 

So, I guess blind faith in scientists is acceptable but not faith the pure devotees of God?

 

You can put your faith in NASA.

I'll put mine in the acharya who sees through the eyes of shastra.

 

What do you keep babbling on about NASA for? NASA was not the first to say the moon was closer to the earth than the sun. Ancient Greek astronomers even calculated the exact distance of the moon, that we now know today. Please study astronomy and history.

 

ANYONE can purchase a telescope and look at the moon for themselves.

 

The moon distance is not even that big a deal to 99% of people. Most people know that the moon is closer to the earth, and wouldn't even know about this extremist belief of Hare Krishnas.. they'd only think you were a group of brainwashed cultists, if anything.

 

In many spiritual teachings the fact that the moon reflects the sun's light, is a very important spiritual teaching, as the moon and sun hold a big part in mystical and symbolic teachings.

 

like most fundamentalists, you only care about being right, and not about the facts. You'd be just like the Catholic church leaders in the dark ages who imprisoned Galileo for discovering the earth revolved around the sun, which contradicted biblical teachings (their sacred cow beliefs). Fundamentalism is always the same, whereever it breeds its ugly head.

[theist 1]

Srila Prabhupada wrote, "blind following is condemned". The representative of God comes to give eyes to see the Light not to remain blind little robots.