Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Jyotisha, Namaste. I would like to clarify a few points. 1. Brahma is the great.grandfather of all living entities, so if he would want to have a wife, it would be difficult for him to find someone who is not his descendant. However, we shoul note two things: One is that Brahma is a supremely powerful demigod, so ordinary humans have no right to judge his position or imitate his activites. And the other thing is that Brahma created his sons and daughters by meditation, so they are not in blood relationship with him in the biological sense of the word. Also we dont have prove that he had sexual relationship with Saraswati in the biological sense of the word. 2. As regards the Pandavas (see subject line), I am not aware of any case of incest in their lives. It was actually as described. They had intercourse with Draupadi only in the year designated to them. However most of them had other wives also. 3. Polygamy is accepted in some cultures (including ancient Hinduism and Islam) and it is indicanted in the native's chart. In fact, everything is indicated. The behaviour unacceptable byx the society is indicated by the Arudhas. The truly irreligious behaviour is indicated by the houses and Chara Karakas. Now to point 3 of Panditji's comments about human bombers etc. Both religious and irreligious tendencies will be indicated in the chart, especially by the Atmakaraka. The circumstances of death will certainly be indicated in the chart. Free will is undoubtedly there, but even if someone seriously takes to spirituality, usually it takes time and effort to absolve his past karma. It does not disappear just bu our wish. Yours, Gauranga Das -- Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer Tel: +36309140839 www.brihaspati.net www.atmacenter.hu Skype: gauranga_das On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:42:54 +0200, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 > wrote: > dear vinita ji > > since astrology brands the planets as benefic or malefic giving > right or wrong dispositions in each chart differently, before we > pronounce a planet giving right or wrong results, it is an innate > subject to know what is right and what is wrong in the first place. > planets can give only good or bad results which are directly related > to right and wrong. > > since some great astrologers have started reading and predicting the > charts of animals, they shall answer whether incest is mentioned in > all charts ofanimals or not. > > as regards your query of scandinavian people, i am sure mere > astrology principles do not work. > > thought perceptions are reflected in the native's chart, the thought > perceptions keep changing. any native's future depends or changes > on the following: > > 1. the destiny or fate as brought from the previous births which is > denoted from the birth chart > > 2. karma theory i.e. fresh good or bad karmas done in this birth > giving their results in proportion to the karmas done. > > 3. freewill with which a person can do japam, tapam and even go into > samadhi state and attain all divine powers, realise the self and > become god. freewill with which a person becomes a terrorist or a > humanbomber. does all terrorists or humanbombers' charts suggest > ghastly untimely deaths. > > 4. blessings or curses from divine souls like gurus, godmen, parents > and even black or white magic. > > some astrologers surmise that only karma theory (point 2) is > separate and points 3 and 4 are already seen in the fate from the > birth chart. some ever greater astrologers predict even karma > theory is seen from the birth chart alone and points 2, 3 and 4 are > all working only because they are written in the chart. so, > strictly speaking on astrology terms, i have seen the prostitute > yogas written in streejataka in several pious housewives who are > pativratas even though we can find solace in searching with a > microscope for any positive aspect or influence of jupiter on such > bad yogas, but surprisingly even those cases where jupiter did not > have any saving grace, the natives are still pativratas. so, in my > understanding mere application one or two principles of an yoga will > not always result in its results. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > vedic astrology, "vinita kumar" > <shankar_mamta wrote: >> >> Dear Pandit Arjunji, >> >> This subject is interesting and i thought maybe i could share some >> thoughts on this, no matter how "funny" they may appear to be. >> Somehow the subject of sex and who has this with whom is so much >> conditioned by norms of society as u also mentioned....the customs >> of south / one region vary from those of north/another region. So >> where is the question of an absolute right and an absolute wrong? >> >> What comes to mind are the polarities in the Universe...the Shiva- >> Shakti; yin-yang; Purusha-Prakriti or whatever one may choose to >> call it. There is a constant attraction between the polarities as > is >> the law of nature/Universe. >> >> The mythologies are full of stories of such attraction and >> consummation of such physical relationships with or without > consent. >> There was no rule of monogamy in ancient times, perhaps. Now if we >> think of it as the same force which is there in co-partners of the >> avatars of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh in various avatars, we too > are >> an ansha of these forces are we not? (The prime example of incest - > >> by one yardstick -would be the relationship of Brahma with >> Saraswati). There are many stories of incest in mythologies just > as >> there are stories of multiple partners, say multiple > wives/partners >> of Krishna - some of which did not recieve immediate social > sanction. >> >> I suppose this forum is not about discussing the "right" > or "wrong" >> of these things but about the extent to which these things are >> reflected in our charts. I don't know much about astrology but > there >> is something i want to find out from the esteemed members here. To >> what extent are "thought perceptions" reflected in horoscopes? A >> person may have multiple relationships but thinks this is very >> natural, say as in Scandinavian countries, where very few people >> actually marry. Will the charts of such people always show several >> marriages/relationships? If there is one main relationship, will > the >> chart reflect monogamy, even if there is no formal marriage and > even >> if there have been multiple minor relationships in the past? On > the >> other hand if there has been only a single marriage but there have >> been attractions to others, without physical consummation of >> relationships, would the chart show multiple partners? In other >> words, do the lines on the palm, or combinations in the chart >> reflect how the native percieves things irrespective of actual >> occurence of events??? >> >> Shall be grateful for responses. >> >> Regards, >> >> Vinita >> >> >> >> >> >> >> vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" >> <panditarjun2004@> wrote: >> > >> > dear lakshmi ji >> > >> > i am sure your participation in this thread would make it very >> > active as it happened earlier in the pre marital sex thread. >> > >> > if i understand correctly, you are trying to paint two pictures: >> > >> > 1. incest is a bad thing or a crime. >> > 2. pandavas were not involved in incest which, for, in your >> > definition, incest is using force or committing a crime or some >> > immoral offence or sin. >> > >> > firstly let me make it clear that incest, in itself, is not a >> crime >> > just like sex between two people unless there is an use of > force. >> > also incestuous relations are not under the purview of Indian > Laws >> > and some personal laws (which have legal authority in india) do >> not >> > prohibit them. several marriages between people too close to >> marry >> > have been happening for decades and indian laws do not prohibit >> > them. also the definition of incest changes from one area to >> > another e.g. a man in the south can marry his sister's daughter >> > while the same is treated as incest in the north. similarly in >> some >> > areas of the north a devar can have incestuous relation with his >> > bhabhi whereas in the south bhabhi is treated like a mother. > even >> > today, under some personal laws polygamy is permitted and a man >> can >> > marry four women who are all sisters but it is not considered >> > incest. also in many parts of india men treat their wive's >> sisters >> > as their second wives or once their first wife dies, they >> naturally >> > marry her sister as the old saying goes "saali aadhi gharwaali". >> > >> > other than the above, these days great astrologers are even >> looking >> > the charts of animals. in that case, as is known to all, the >> human >> > evolution came from animals which thrive only on incest and you >> wont >> > find incest yogas in all their charts but they do incest 100%. >> > >> > secondly in the case of pandavas, you are suggesting that they >> > shared the power like two political parties changed >> chiefminstership >> > in UP every six months (musical chairs). in hindu mythology, >> > several gods and even sages have practiced polygamy and had > wives >> > from all castes without divorcing their first wives. coming > back >> to >> > mahabharata, are you suggesting that when one of the five man > army >> > is in command, the rest four are resting or following celibacy. >> can >> > you refresh me whether dharamaraj was owning draupadi in that >> > particular year when he mortgaged her in his gambling because, >> > according to your principle, he cannot do this if he is not in >> > ownership of her for that particular year. when dharmaraj or > raja >> > harischandra sold mortgaged or sold their wives, it is no crime >> but >> > if some poor starving parents sell their children in some parts, >> all >> > media people bash it as a heinous crime without helping the >> starving >> > parents to feed thier children. >> > >> > also i forgot the comprehensive mahabharata of around 18 volumes >> > read in the childhood. are you suggesting that the pandavas >> shared >> > draupadi one year each religiously and the five year cycle >> continued >> > for ever i.e. a man cohabits with his wife for one year, wait >> > patiently for four years and then cohabits for one year and so >> on. >> > mahabharata is not a mythology and an itihasa or history which >> > really happened and hence we can explore the rules existed in >> those >> > days without wrapping them under the leelas of the god. any >> > historians in the group who got by rote the entire mahabharata > may >> > shed more light. >> > >> > with best wishes >> > pandit arjun >> > vedic astrology, "lakshmikary" >> > <lakshmikary@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Hare Krishna >> > > Dear Pandit Arjun, >> > > The Pandavas were not involved in incest. >> > > There is a big difference between , a familiar member taking >> > > advantage of another person for their OWN satisfaction of >> desires. >> > > It cant be compared to the Pandavas were honoring the >> instruction >> > of >> > > mother. >> > > When their mother unknowlingly gave instruction to "share the >> > prize" >> > > of the competition, which was Druapadi (who wanted to be 'won" >> by >> > > Arjun) >> > > >> > > The each shared Draupadi by each one taking her as the wife > for >> > one >> > > year each and she bore them a child. >> > > .While she was with one husband she didnt share herself with >> the >> > > others etc,and they followed rules of decency. >> > > There are other stories in Vedas were some great personality > has >> > some >> > > incestious moods, and these narrations are given to show the >> > > human "base "natures >> > > of man,but modern men should never place themselves on > platform >> of >> > > the great personalities and their lilas. >> > > Best wishes >> > > Lakshmi >> > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" >> > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > dear kishore ji >> > > > >> > > > freedom of expression is the equal right of all members, >> senior >> > and >> > > > junior alike. i remember yourself, myself, laxmiji and >> various >> > > > other members discussed this issue of pre-marital sex in > this >> > group >> > > > long ago wihout any taboo. we can discuss all aspects of >> > astrology >> > > > (including sex and adultery) purely for academic purposes. >> > after >> > > > all, adi sanakara too participated in a debate on sringara >> > shastra. >> > > > >> > > > however, i repeat my advice of high caution before >> emphatically >> > > > predicting a woman as a characterless person MERELY BASED ON >> HER >> > > > CHART (even if based on sound astrology rules) for indian >> > mythology >> > > > is full of strories where even gods failed in their tests of > a >> > true >> > > > pativrata e.g. sati anasuya. so if an astrologer assisantes >> the >> > > > character of a pativrata, just because her chart is showing >> > > > prostitute combinations as laid down in streejataka, it is > not >> > > > prudent and the astrologer earns bad karma. >> > > > >> > > > i am fully in support of you for discussing the sex related >> > issues >> > > > but purely for academic purpose and to share or learn more > on >> > the >> > > > subject. >> > > > >> > > > with best wishes >> > > > pandit arjun >> > > > >> > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" >> > > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Dear krishnaji, >> > > > > >> > > > > I can assure you that you have not hurt anybody's > feelings. >> > You >> > > > are >> > > > > at freedom to express your views and when such things are >> not >> > > > > personal, how can it hurt anyone? >> > > > > >> > > > > On the other hand, this misconception of something can be >> > > > predicted >> > > > > and something cannot be is there in some senior people > too. >> > For >> > > > eg., >> > > > > I have received a personally insulting private mail from > a >> > very >> > > > > senior member in this list who has opposed me discussing > pre >> > > > marital >> > > > > sex. >> > > > > >> > > > > In this forum, we have to have pure academic attitude, >> nothing >> > is >> > > > > taboo, so long it forwards the cause of Astrology. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Kishore patnaik >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > vedic astrology, Krishnamurthy >> > Seetharama >> > > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Kishore ji, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > It appears that my statement has hurt the sentiments >> > > > > > of some astrologers. If so, let me apologise. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > However, I am of the opinion that the wrong prediction >> > > > > > about the chastity of a girl creates much more pain >> > > > > > and could destroy families as compared to wrong >> > > > > > prediction in the case of career or marriage or such >> > > > > > other things. Hence, my comment. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Regards, >> > > > > > Krishna >> > > > > > >> > > > > > --- kishore patnaik <kishorepatnaik09@> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > dear krishnamurthyji, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > with due respect to your views, what you said and >> > > > > > > what pandit arjunji said >> > > > > > > are totally different. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now, coming to whether astrologers should predict on >> > > > > > > these issues, i do not >> > > > > > > think you are right in saying that the astros should >> > > > > > > not predict on the >> > > > > > > issue. If that were to be right, the scriptures >> > > > > > > would have never given the >> > > > > > > combinations relating to the chastity of a man or >> > > > > > > woman. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Secondly, while it is true that the wrong prediction >> > > > > > > could ruin an entire >> > > > > > > family, dont you think this is true for any >> > > > > > > prediction, connected with any >> > > > > > > matter? recently, i have seen a querrry lamenting a >> > > > > > > wrong prediction with >> > > > > > > regard to his ruined career.Dont you think that is >> > > > > > > dangerous? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dont you think the marriage fixing through astrology >> > > > > > > is dangerous? any wrong >> > > > > > > predictions can dash the hopes of poor young hearts >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dont you think you are mentally make him die once >> > > > > > > you predict the death of a >> > > > > > > native on so and so date? If the wrong prediction is >> > > > > > > made in this issue, the >> > > > > > > whole life collapses, right??? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The astrology is a scinece of predictions. It is our >> > > > > > > duty to predict without >> > > > > > > prejudice or favour, based on our knowledge and >> > > > > > > experience, only with best >> > > > > > > intersts in mind! You should neither hurry with the >> > > > > > > predictions, nor you >> > > > > > > should be careless or egoistic in your methods of >> > > > > > > predictions. Intuition >> > > > > > > plays a great role in astrology and intuition can be >> > > > > > > gifted by god only if >> > > > > > > you are pure and humble. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > If you make a wrong prediction in any case, not just >> > > > > > > in matters of chastity >> > > > > > > or whatever, you can be as lethal as a doctor >> > > > > > > injecting the wrong drug into >> > > > > > > his patient!!! >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hope you will agree with me, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kishore patnaik >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 7/12/06, Krishnamurthy Seetharama >> > > > > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Pandit Arjun Ji, >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks for echoing similar views as of mine on >> > > > > > > this >> > > > > > > > subject. Any wrong prediction on such matters can >> > > > > > > ruin >> > > > > > > > not just an individual but many people and >> > > > > > > families >> > > > > > > > connected to them! This is serious. I hope people >> > > > > > > > giving predictions realize this. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hence, on such delicate matters, an astrologer >> > > > > > > should >> > > > > > > > give a prediction only if he/she has a long >> > > > > > > experience >> > > > > > > > of giving predictions and has not got even a >> > > > > > > single >> > > > > > > > prediction wrong. Do we have anyone like that? >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Though I am not an expert, I humbly suggest >> > > > > > > caution >> > > > > > > > and a sense of responsibility on part of the >> > > > > > > > astrologers while giving predictions especially in >> > > > > > > > areas that strongly affects the lives of people >> > > > > > > around >> > > > > > > > us. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards, >> > > > > > > > Krishna >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- panditarjun2004 >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > <panditarjun2004@<panditarjun2004%40>> >> > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > dear friends >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > on subjects such as incest, in my humble >> > > > > > > opinion, >> > > > > > > > > astrologers shall >> > > > > > > > > desist in giving any strong predictions, for it >> > > > > > > is a >> > > > > > > > > double edged >> > > > > > > > > sword. also if the astrologer paint adultery on >> > > > > > > a >> > > > > > > > > pativrata, he >> > > > > > > > > earns unforgivable bad karma and commit sin by >> > > > > > > > > causing separation >> > > > > > > > > between the couple. >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > having said this, there is a village in >> > > > > > > uttaranchal >> > > > > > > > > where pandav >> > > > > > > > > pradha still thrives viz. any woman who comes >> > > > > > > home >> > > > > > > > > by marrying one >> > > > > > > > > person is shared by all her devars as a custom. >> > > > > > > > > this custom is also >> > > > > > > > > seen in several other parts of the north but not >> > > > > > > as >> > > > > > > > > a rule. is >> > > > > > > > > incest a social custom or a social evil. at >> > > > > > > least >> > > > > > > > > in dwapara yuga, >> > > > > > > > > it was not an evil as is the case in pandavas. >> > > > > > > has >> > > > > > > > > the evolution of >> > > > > > > > > a man from an animal removed his animal >> > > > > > > instincts or >> > > > > > > > > not. >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > HAVE ASTROLOGERS STUDIED THE CHARTS OF PANDAVAS >> > > > > > > FOR >> > > > > > > > > INCEST. >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > with best wishes >> > > > > > > > > pandit arjun >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology% >> > > > 40> >> > > > > > > > , >> > > > > > > > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama >> > > > > > > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that one should not search >> > > > > > > for >> > > > > > > > > > solutions in astrology in matters like this. I >> > > > > > > > > don't >> > > > > > > > > > think any astrologer will give a black and >> > > > > > > white >> > > > > > > > > or >> > > > > > > > > > yes or no answer to this query. Any error on >> > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > part >> > > > > > > > > > of the astrologer can ruin the life of >> > > > > > > innocent >> > > > > > > > > > people. I am sure the husband could find other >> > > > > > > > > > non-intrusive ways to find the reality. >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Regards, >> > > > > > > > > > Krishna >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --- r_maheshwari7 <r_maheshwari7@> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > om namah shivay >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > respected gurujis, >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > a puzzled friend of mine came to me with his >> > > > > > > > > > > problem since he >> > > > > > > > > > > wanted privacy in this matter. he was >> > > > > > > married in >> > > > > > > > > > > last february, 2005. >> > > > > > > > > > > his wife is beautiful. the problem is that >> > > > > > > he >> > > > > > > > > has >> > > > > > > > > > > doubts whether his >> > > > > > > > > > > wife is having a sexual affair with his >> > > > > > > younger >> > > > > > > > > > > brother who is 23 >> > > > > > > > > > > years of age. husband is 30 years old. he is >> > > > > > > a >> > > > > > > > > > > devoted follower of >> > > > > > > > > > > astrology and believes that jyotish can >> > > > > > > guide >> > > > > > > > > him in >> > > > > > > > > > > this matter. >> > > > > > > > > > > though he and his wife love and trust each >> > > > > > > > > other. >> > > > > > > > > > > ahe shows and >> > > > > > > > > > > infact so far has been good to entire >> > > > > > > family. >> > > > > > > > > but >> > > > > > > > > > > still he is dubious >> > > > > > > > > > > because his wife has a high sex appetite. >> > > > > > > also >> > > > > > > > > she >> > > > > > > > > > > has very close >> > > > > > > > > > > terms with his brother. husband sense >> > > > > > > something >> > > > > > > > > > > wrong between them. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > === message truncated === >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection >> > around >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > -- Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer Tel: +36309140839 www.brihaspati.net www.atmacenter.hu Skype: gauranga_das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 vedic astrology, "her_asha" <her_asha wrote: > > I find this very interesting. It seems that us Indians as not that far > behind in terms of dumbing our race down and creating a physically > sick race in terms of disease etc as muslims who marry uncle/aunties > daughter or son. Dear Asha ji, Quite enligtening views there. I believe that is the very reason it is advised not to marry within one's own Gotra, since that signifies common ancestory. I thought it is very common for astrologers to advise that? Would love to hear commentss from practioners. As far as Pandavas go, Arjuna had multiple wives, there was at least one Naga princess for sure, there was some damsel apparently in heavens too ( I might be wrong). Bhima was also married to Hidimba. So at least those two were not just patiently waiting for 4 years for their next turn !. Cheers Azaad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Dear Gauranga, I wonder if you would answer a question for me? I have been trying to find further information on the Upagrahas, but am finding this a difficult task. In the Hora Sastra it says that Gulika is compared to Saturn, Kala to Rahu, Ardha Prahara to Mercury and Yamaghantaka to Jupiter. But which of the Upagrahas relate to Sun, Moon, Mars, Venus and Ketu? I really would like to go deeply into the subject of the Upagrahas and therefore would very much appreciate any and all information you would be able to provide on them. Thanking you in advance. Yours faithfully, Navadvipa dasa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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