KARMANIPULATION -- a naive question [tech, philosoph, remedies, freewill]..RR Ji

[Guest guest]

Remedies are a part of free will that you use to delude yourself into making you feel good....This is for external remedies .

Mantra remedies are powerful remedies in the sense that chemical reactions of unbelievable nature can take place in one's body when there is an input of sound with meaning.

For example, if I were to call some one SOB, no sooner he hears it, his Adernaline glands situated over his kidneys secrete extra dose, his face becomes red, his heart pumps blood faster, his brain becomes super charged and eyes become wide and red etc. All these happen in 100th to 1/10th of a second.

Thus, one's body is suject to good and bed impulses thro medium of sound.

I have seen miracles happening in my client's lives after given mantras are chanted . But not before they do prayaschitta prayer which I take liberty to reproduce from my website.

QUOTE,

PRAYASCHITTA is like a cleansing Fire, which burns your Sins. No one can escape Karma phala but by doing Prayaschitta the Conscience becomes clean and the suffering is considerably reduced.

All planetary bad periods, bad transits (Gocharas) and bad Yogas in Horoscopes result into suffering. This is God's way of awarding punishment for Karma.

So when Planetes are to be appeased and Shanti Prayogas are to be performed,

IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU DO THE NECESSARY PRAYASCHITTA OR REPENTANCE BEFORE SUCH POOJA.

Various forms of Prayaschitta have been prescribed by our religious texts. I am simplifying the texts into a simple form as under and if it is done with full faith, I am sure it will be as good as doing such prayaschitta as laid down in Shastras.

When you prepare yourself to do this prayaschitta, the best way is to ask for forgivance from wronged people. If this is not possible next best thing to do is tell the image of God or Goddess of your choice about all the sins committed by you. Among all the forms of God's images, the best is a Crystal or Sphatik.

After getting the crystal form please do the poojas regularly for at least one full circle of Moon, i.e., 28 days and then treat crystal as living God and pour out your repentance to crystal.

 

SIMPLE PRAYASCHITTA (REPENTANCE) PRAYER

O God, I am suffering untold miseries due to my sins.

I know that I have committed many sins and I need to be punished.

I might have sinned knowingly or unknowingly in my past and present births.

I might have committed acts which are not allowed in any society any religion or any place on earth.

I might have pained many a soul living in all living things which we can see or which we cannot see.

Such souls might have resided in plants or animals.

Please help me cleanse my soul as I am truly regretting for such acts of sins.

I promise that henceforth I will not commit such sins knowingly and do further acts of repentance by doing things beneficial to people, places and this universe.

So help me God.

END QUOTE

Tatvam-Asi

 

crystal pages <jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

As a general principle, anyone who has paid attention to the thoughts

expressed in this forum and similar other venues, dealing with

jyotish, remedies, tantra, other forms of magic etc. several things

emerge:

 

Jyotish and its building blocks, cause and effect, over and across

lifetimes and also within a single lifetime are based on the Karma

principle, crudely described as: you reap what you sow. Some say the

seed can be mental action, others maintain that it has to be a

physical worldly action, a third party indicates that it has to hurt

someone, in mind, spirit or body. A tree fallen in the isolated

forest does not count. [Ask the tree and its neighbours!]

 

Remedies span a large variety, from the penance type to powerful

material and mineral ones, gemstones, amulets and spiritual: pooja

etc. There are then numerous variations and combinations of all of

these modalities. Poke around and ask around and you will come up

with anecdotal accounts that range from 100% success to dire failure.

It is a moving duck, shall we say.

 

Then we venture or dabble into the nether realms (nothing to do with

the Dutch!) and we come across tantras and its high and low paths and

at some point we run into statements as have been voiced here, namely

that tantra of the low type (some would compare that with voodoo and

black magic, terms more meaningful to many modern individuals) can be

effective but the only lasting thing they bring is pain and anguish

to the recipient (at whom it is directed), the instigator (who

requested for the tantra) and the Shaman (who brought together the

different realms and made energy jump across parallel universes or

parallel realities as Quantum Physicists have started writing about,

without really understanding how it all really 'works'. So human of

them!).

 

Point is, if any of these things, high or low or medium work, even in

some cases, then Karma is not absolute and can be altered and even

manipulated in a crisis. There is always a price to pay, of course,

but we all know the allegory by Faust of Mephistophiles <sp>! It is

not a eastern or western thought and all cultures probably have

similar anecdotes, including the ultramodern IT culture with its

viruses and spyware and what not! Have you, as a non IT guy ever

talked to your IT service-person? Pure magic!!

 

Regardless of its moral underpinnings and all the nine yards, it

seems that through all these options available, the common mechanism

and law is the law of free-will. Do not underestimate it, for it

comes at a price. Of personal responsibility, and in most cases

immense POWER poised precariously over a platform of incomplete

understanding and therefore ignorance.

 

Take it from a ten year old boy who destroyed expensive loudspeakers

(power assisted by ignorance). Only through divine grace (forgiveness

of menacing old big brother) that boy now knows more about loud

speakers than he ever would have! Karma ki gati nyari santon!

 

RR

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

dear friends

 

as rightly observed, karmic theory has an overriding effect (both

positive and negative) over the destiny which can be changed with a

freewill.

 

for a layman to understand easily, if you want happiness, make

others happy first. there was a time in this holy land when without

offering food to others, people were not used to have food.

 

the planets, the facereading, the palmreading and other prognostics

can, at best, give an indication like the Indian Met department

which gives an indication of how the weather would be. some sites

like CNN give a weekly weather report for the next seven days for

all cities in the world. all these weather forecasts are only

indications based on the sky and clouds at that time. many a time

these forecasts fail and sometimes come true.

 

similarly the astrological predictions too have their own

limitations if predicted like a science or on fixed patterns or

systems. here is a thinline difference. if a sagely person says

something about the future of a native, it comes as if it is the

word of god and the future scenarios told by the sage shall be

treated as a blessing or boon given by the sage using his divine

energy. such sagely person's blessings are not a mere prediction

based on some stars or some planets using some birth details and

some degrees and some ayanamsha and some dasha system and some

running gochara and some micro level divisional chart analysis.

 

while appreciating fully what tatvam ji has written, i present the

same in a different manner. suppose a native is behaving like a

beggar stretching his hand and waiting for some money to fall from

the skies so that his physical, mental and emotional (family or

dependants) expenditure and desires are fulfilled, he remains his

hand stretched for the entire lifetime. instead, notwithstanding

your current state, offer food, water, clothing, medicines or any

other relief to the suffering and deserving people, due to the

blessings of the receipients and due to these acts of good karma,

the native starts getting this falling into his lap. loosely put,

to get something, you have to give something. sukh chaahiye to sukh

do.

 

with best wishes

pandit arjun

 

, Tatvamasi

<om_tatsat_om wrote:

>

> Remedies are a part of free will that you use to delude yourself

into making you feel good....This is for external remedies .

>

> Mantra remedies are powerful remedies in the sense that chemical

reactions of unbelievable nature can take place in one's body when

there is an input of sound with meaning.

> For example, if I were to call some one SOB, no sooner he hears

it, his Adernaline glands situated over his kidneys secrete extra

dose, his face becomes red, his heart pumps blood faster, his brain

becomes super charged and eyes become wide and red etc. All these

happen in 100th to 1/10th of a second.

>

> Thus, one's body is suject to good and bed impulses thro medium

of sound.

>

> I have seen miracles happening in my client's lives after given

mantras are chanted . But not before they do prayaschitta prayer

which I take liberty to reproduce from my website.

>

> QUOTE,

>

> PRAYASCHITTA is like a cleansing Fire, which burns your Sins. No

one can escape Karma phala but by doing Prayaschitta the Conscience

becomes clean and the suffering is considerably reduced.

> All planetary bad periods, bad transits (Gocharas) and bad Yogas

in Horoscopes result into suffering. This is God's way of awarding

punishment for Karma.

> So when Planetes are to be appeased and Shanti Prayogas are to

be performed,

> IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU DO THE NECESSARY

PRAYASCHITTA OR REPENTANCE BEFORE SUCH POOJA.

> Various forms of Prayaschitta have been prescribed by our

religious texts. I am simplifying the texts into a simple form as

under and if it is done with full faith, I am sure it will be as

good as doing such prayaschitta as laid down in Shastras.

> When you prepare yourself to do this prayaschitta, the best way

is to ask for forgivance from wronged people. If this is not

possible next best thing to do is tell the image of God or Goddess

of your choice about all the sins committed by you. Among all the

forms of God's images, the best is a Crystal or Sphatik.

> After getting the crystal form please do the poojas regularly

for at least one full circle of Moon, i.e., 28 days and then treat

crystal as living God and pour out your repentance to crystal.

>

>

> SIMPLE PRAYASCHITTA (REPENTANCE) PRAYER

> O God, I am suffering untold miseries due to my sins.

> I know that I have committed many sins and I need to be punished.

> I might have sinned knowingly or unknowingly in my past and

present births.

> I might have committed acts which are not allowed in any society

any religion or any place on earth.

> I might have pained many a soul living in all living things

which we can see or which we cannot see.

> Such souls might have resided in plants or animals.

> Please help me cleanse my soul as I am truly regretting for such

acts of sins.

> I promise that henceforth I will not commit such sins knowingly

and do further acts of repentance by doing things beneficial to

people, places and this universe.

> So help me God.

>

> END QUOTE

>

> Tatvam-Asi

>

> crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote:

> Dear Friends,

>

> As a general principle, anyone who has paid attention to the

thoughts

> expressed in this forum and similar other venues, dealing with

> jyotish, remedies, tantra, other forms of magic etc. several

things

> emerge:

>

> Jyotish and its building blocks, cause and effect, over and across

> lifetimes and also within a single lifetime are based on the Karma

> principle, crudely described as: you reap what you sow. Some say

the

> seed can be mental action, others maintain that it has to be a

> physical worldly action, a third party indicates that it has to

hurt

> someone, in mind, spirit or body. A tree fallen in the isolated

> forest does not count. [Ask the tree and its neighbours!]

>

> Remedies span a large variety, from the penance type to powerful

> material and mineral ones, gemstones, amulets and spiritual: pooja

> etc. There are then numerous variations and combinations of all of

> these modalities. Poke around and ask around and you will come up

> with anecdotal accounts that range from 100% success to dire

failure.

> It is a moving duck, shall we say.

>

> Then we venture or dabble into the nether realms (nothing to do

with

> the Dutch!) and we come across tantras and its high and low paths

and

> at some point we run into statements as have been voiced here,

namely

> that tantra of the low type (some would compare that with voodoo

and

> black magic, terms more meaningful to many modern individuals) can

be

> effective but the only lasting thing they bring is pain and

anguish

> to the recipient (at whom it is directed), the instigator (who

> requested for the tantra) and the Shaman (who brought together the

> different realms and made energy jump across parallel universes or

> parallel realities as Quantum Physicists have started writing

about,

> without really understanding how it all really 'works'. So human

of

> them!).

>

> Point is, if any of these things, high or low or medium work, even

in

> some cases, then Karma is not absolute and can be altered and even

> manipulated in a crisis. There is always a price to pay, of

course,

> but we all know the allegory by Faust of Mephistophiles <sp>! It

is

> not a eastern or western thought and all cultures probably have

> similar anecdotes, including the ultramodern IT culture with its

> viruses and spyware and what not! Have you, as a non IT guy ever

> talked to your IT service-person? Pure magic!!

>

> Regardless of its moral underpinnings and all the nine yards, it

> seems that through all these options available, the common

mechanism

> and law is the law of free-will. Do not underestimate it, for it

> comes at a price. Of personal responsibility, and in most cases

> immense POWER poised precariously over a platform of incomplete

> understanding and therefore ignorance.

>

> Take it from a ten year old boy who destroyed expensive

loudspeakers

> (power assisted by ignorance). Only through divine grace

(forgiveness

> of menacing old big brother) that boy now knows more about loud

> speakers than he ever would have! Karma ki gati nyari santon!

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail Beta.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tatvamasiji,

 

One tiny sliver of doubt remains!

 

Unless a 'tone' of anger or derision is employed, SOB would create

the anger reaction only in those who understand the meaning of that

acronym! By this token only those who understand sanskrit can benefit

from the mantras. Unless people were lying (why would they?) this

does not corroborate with empirical evidence. Even those who

pronounced mantras incorrectly were benefitted, as the reports

indicate.

 

It is possible that the 'intention' was probably important in some

cases and not what was chanted, but then there are many who had faith

and chanted with some knowledge of sanskrit (and beeja mantras are

another level of understanding! Let us leave those aside for now) but

it did not make any difference! They might as well have chewed gum!

 

RR

 

, Tatvamasi <om_tatsat_om

wrote:

>

> Remedies are a part of free will that you use to delude yourself

into making you feel good....This is for external remedies .

>

> Mantra remedies are powerful remedies in the sense that chemical

reactions of unbelievable nature can take place in one's body when

there is an input of sound with meaning.

> For example, if I were to call some one SOB, no sooner he hears

it, his Adernaline glands situated over his kidneys secrete extra

dose, his face becomes red, his heart pumps blood faster, his brain

becomes super charged and eyes become wide and red etc. All these

happen in 100th to 1/10th of a second.

>

> Thus, one's body is suject to good and bed impulses thro medium

of sound.

>

> I have seen miracles happening in my client's lives after given

mantras are chanted . But not before they do prayaschitta prayer

which I take liberty to reproduce from my website.

>

> QUOTE,

>

> PRAYASCHITTA is like a cleansing Fire, which burns your Sins. No

one can escape Karma phala but by doing Prayaschitta the Conscience

becomes clean and the suffering is considerably reduced.

> All planetary bad periods, bad transits (Gocharas) and bad Yogas

in Horoscopes result into suffering. This is God's way of awarding

punishment for Karma.

> So when Planetes are to be appeased and Shanti Prayogas are to be

performed,

> IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU DO THE NECESSARY

PRAYASCHITTA OR REPENTANCE BEFORE SUCH POOJA.

> Various forms of Prayaschitta have been prescribed by our

religious texts. I am simplifying the texts into a simple form as

under and if it is done with full faith, I am sure it will be as good

as doing such prayaschitta as laid down in Shastras.

> When you prepare yourself to do this prayaschitta, the best way

is to ask for forgivance from wronged people. If this is not possible

next best thing to do is tell the image of God or Goddess of your

choice about all the sins committed by you. Among all the forms of

God's images, the best is a Crystal or Sphatik.

> After getting the crystal form please do the poojas regularly for

at least one full circle of Moon, i.e., 28 days and then treat

crystal as living God and pour out your repentance to crystal.

>

>

> SIMPLE PRAYASCHITTA (REPENTANCE) PRAYER

> O God, I am suffering untold miseries due to my sins.

> I know that I have committed many sins and I need to be punished.

> I might have sinned knowingly or unknowingly in my past and

present births.

> I might have committed acts which are not allowed in any society

any religion or any place on earth.

> I might have pained many a soul living in all living things which

we can see or which we cannot see.

> Such souls might have resided in plants or animals.

> Please help me cleanse my soul as I am truly regretting for such

acts of sins.

> I promise that henceforth I will not commit such sins knowingly

and do further acts of repentance by doing things beneficial to

people, places and this universe.

> So help me God.

>

> END QUOTE

>

> Tatvam-Asi

>

> crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote:

> Dear Friends,

>

> As a general principle, anyone who has paid attention to the

thoughts

> expressed in this forum and similar other venues, dealing with

> jyotish, remedies, tantra, other forms of magic etc. several things

> emerge:

>

> Jyotish and its building blocks, cause and effect, over and across

> lifetimes and also within a single lifetime are based on the Karma

> principle, crudely described as: you reap what you sow. Some say

the

> seed can be mental action, others maintain that it has to be a

> physical worldly action, a third party indicates that it has to

hurt

> someone, in mind, spirit or body. A tree fallen in the isolated

> forest does not count. [Ask the tree and its neighbours!]

>

> Remedies span a large variety, from the penance type to powerful

> material and mineral ones, gemstones, amulets and spiritual: pooja

> etc. There are then numerous variations and combinations of all of

> these modalities. Poke around and ask around and you will come up

> with anecdotal accounts that range from 100% success to dire

failure.

> It is a moving duck, shall we say.

>

> Then we venture or dabble into the nether realms (nothing to do

with

> the Dutch!) and we come across tantras and its high and low paths

and

> at some point we run into statements as have been voiced here,

namely

> that tantra of the low type (some would compare that with voodoo

and

> black magic, terms more meaningful to many modern individuals) can

be

> effective but the only lasting thing they bring is pain and anguish

> to the recipient (at whom it is directed), the instigator (who

> requested for the tantra) and the Shaman (who brought together the

> different realms and made energy jump across parallel universes or

> parallel realities as Quantum Physicists have started writing

about,

> without really understanding how it all really 'works'. So human of

> them!).

>

> Point is, if any of these things, high or low or medium work, even

in

> some cases, then Karma is not absolute and can be altered and even

> manipulated in a crisis. There is always a price to pay, of course,

> but we all know the allegory by Faust of Mephistophiles <sp>! It is

> not a eastern or western thought and all cultures probably have

> similar anecdotes, including the ultramodern IT culture with its

> viruses and spyware and what not! Have you, as a non IT guy ever

> talked to your IT service-person? Pure magic!!

>

> Regardless of its moral underpinnings and all the nine yards, it

> seems that through all these options available, the common

mechanism

> and law is the law of free-will. Do not underestimate it, for it

> comes at a price. Of personal responsibility, and in most cases

> immense POWER poised precariously over a platform of incomplete

> understanding and therefore ignorance.

>

> Take it from a ten year old boy who destroyed expensive

loudspeakers

> (power assisted by ignorance). Only through divine grace

(forgiveness

> of menacing old big brother) that boy now knows more about loud

> speakers than he ever would have! Karma ki gati nyari santon!

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail Beta.

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are a few more doubts, if I am permitted to differ.

The future is not known. It is a series of events which a divinator

or a philospher or scientist creates by his own expectations of the

series of events based on his available skillset and knowledge.

Even ordinary persons, like us, create this "arudha" or image of our

future based again an "expectations".

Now when remedies are applied, it is again these "expectations" which

are being judged or evaluated. What we normally call a "miracle" is

again an event which has happened against the flow or run

of "expectations".

So is the future really changing or are simply the expectations of

the observer changing?

Whatever is, is happening over a period of time. There is very little

understanding about the time a "bad" karma takes to repair when

repenting. Conversely there is again very little knowledge of the

potential rewards of the "good" karma.

Each religion, each kaal, each desh and each patra set normative

standards of their own "expectations".

Leaving me thoroughly confused!

But I think have conveyed my basic doubt.

regards

rishi

 

 

 

 

 

, "crystal pages"

<jyotish_vani wrote:

>

> Tatvamasiji,

>

> One tiny sliver of doubt remains!

>

> Unless a 'tone' of anger or derision is employed, SOB would create

> the anger reaction only in those who understand the meaning of that

> acronym! By this token only those who understand sanskrit can

benefit

> from the mantras. Unless people were lying (why would they?) this

> does not corroborate with empirical evidence. Even those who

> pronounced mantras incorrectly were benefitted, as the reports

> indicate.

>

> It is possible that the 'intention' was probably important in some

> cases and not what was chanted, but then there are many who had

faith

> and chanted with some knowledge of sanskrit (and beeja mantras are

> another level of understanding! Let us leave those aside for now)

but

> it did not make any difference! They might as well have chewed gum!

>

> RR

>

> , Tatvamasi <om_tatsat_om@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Remedies are a part of free will that you use to delude yourself

> into making you feel good....This is for external remedies .

> >

> > Mantra remedies are powerful remedies in the sense that

chemical

> reactions of unbelievable nature can take place in one's body when

> there is an input of sound with meaning.

> > For example, if I were to call some one SOB, no sooner he hears

> it, his Adernaline glands situated over his kidneys secrete extra

> dose, his face becomes red, his heart pumps blood faster, his brain

> becomes super charged and eyes become wide and red etc. All these

> happen in 100th to 1/10th of a second.

> >

> > Thus, one's body is suject to good and bed impulses thro medium

> of sound.

> >

> > I have seen miracles happening in my client's lives after given

> mantras are chanted . But not before they do prayaschitta prayer

> which I take liberty to reproduce from my website.

> >

> > QUOTE,

> >

> > PRAYASCHITTA is like a cleansing Fire, which burns your Sins.

No

> one can escape Karma phala but by doing Prayaschitta the Conscience

> becomes clean and the suffering is considerably reduced.

> > All planetary bad periods, bad transits (Gocharas) and bad

Yogas

> in Horoscopes result into suffering. This is God's way of awarding

> punishment for Karma.

> > So when Planetes are to be appeased and Shanti Prayogas are to

be

> performed,

> > IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU DO THE NECESSARY

> PRAYASCHITTA OR REPENTANCE BEFORE SUCH POOJA.

> > Various forms of Prayaschitta have been prescribed by our

> religious texts. I am simplifying the texts into a simple form as

> under and if it is done with full faith, I am sure it will be as

good

> as doing such prayaschitta as laid down in Shastras.

> > When you prepare yourself to do this prayaschitta, the best way

> is to ask for forgivance from wronged people. If this is not

possible

> next best thing to do is tell the image of God or Goddess of your

> choice about all the sins committed by you. Among all the forms of

> God's images, the best is a Crystal or Sphatik.

> > After getting the crystal form please do the poojas regularly

for

> at least one full circle of Moon, i.e., 28 days and then treat

> crystal as living God and pour out your repentance to crystal.

> >

> >

> > SIMPLE PRAYASCHITTA (REPENTANCE) PRAYER

> > O God, I am suffering untold miseries due to my sins.

> > I know that I have committed many sins and I need to be

punished.

> > I might have sinned knowingly or unknowingly in my past and

> present births.

> > I might have committed acts which are not allowed in any

society

> any religion or any place on earth.

> > I might have pained many a soul living in all living things

which

> we can see or which we cannot see.

> > Such souls might have resided in plants or animals.

> > Please help me cleanse my soul as I am truly regretting for

such

> acts of sins.

> > I promise that henceforth I will not commit such sins knowingly

> and do further acts of repentance by doing things beneficial to

> people, places and this universe.

> > So help me God.

> >

> > END QUOTE

> >

> > Tatvam-Asi

> >

> > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > Dear Friends,

> >

> > As a general principle, anyone who has paid attention to the

> thoughts

> > expressed in this forum and similar other venues, dealing with

> > jyotish, remedies, tantra, other forms of magic etc. several

things

> > emerge:

> >

> > Jyotish and its building blocks, cause and effect, over and

across

> > lifetimes and also within a single lifetime are based on the

Karma

> > principle, crudely described as: you reap what you sow. Some say

> the

> > seed can be mental action, others maintain that it has to be a

> > physical worldly action, a third party indicates that it has to

> hurt

> > someone, in mind, spirit or body. A tree fallen in the isolated

> > forest does not count. [Ask the tree and its neighbours!]

> >

> > Remedies span a large variety, from the penance type to powerful

> > material and mineral ones, gemstones, amulets and spiritual:

pooja

> > etc. There are then numerous variations and combinations of all

of

> > these modalities. Poke around and ask around and you will come up

> > with anecdotal accounts that range from 100% success to dire

> failure.

> > It is a moving duck, shall we say.

> >

> > Then we venture or dabble into the nether realms (nothing to do

> with

> > the Dutch!) and we come across tantras and its high and low paths

> and

> > at some point we run into statements as have been voiced here,

> namely

> > that tantra of the low type (some would compare that with voodoo

> and

> > black magic, terms more meaningful to many modern individuals)

can

> be

> > effective but the only lasting thing they bring is pain and

anguish

> > to the recipient (at whom it is directed), the instigator (who

> > requested for the tantra) and the Shaman (who brought together

the

> > different realms and made energy jump across parallel universes

or

> > parallel realities as Quantum Physicists have started writing

> about,

> > without really understanding how it all really 'works'. So human

of

> > them!).

> >

> > Point is, if any of these things, high or low or medium work,

even

> in

> > some cases, then Karma is not absolute and can be altered and

even

> > manipulated in a crisis. There is always a price to pay, of

course,

> > but we all know the allegory by Faust of Mephistophiles <sp>! It

is

> > not a eastern or western thought and all cultures probably have

> > similar anecdotes, including the ultramodern IT culture with its

> > viruses and spyware and what not! Have you, as a non IT guy ever

> > talked to your IT service-person? Pure magic!!

> >

> > Regardless of its moral underpinnings and all the nine yards, it

> > seems that through all these options available, the common

> mechanism

> > and law is the law of free-will. Do not underestimate it, for it

> > comes at a price. Of personal responsibility, and in most cases

> > immense POWER poised precariously over a platform of incomplete

> > understanding and therefore ignorance.

> >

> > Take it from a ten year old boy who destroyed expensive

> loudspeakers

> > (power assisted by ignorance). Only through divine grace

> (forgiveness

> > of menacing old big brother) that boy now knows more about loud

> > speakers than he ever would have! Karma ki gati nyari santon!

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail Beta.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Rishi,

 

Rishi: There are a few more doubts,

RR: Good to see you too! :-)

 

Rishi: if I am permitted to differ.

RR: Anything but 'that' would be unwelcome and unacceptable! I love

those who have truly realized that no teacher or teaching lives

forever -- only KNOWLEDGE does!

 

 

Rishi: The future is not known.

RR: Future remains an illusion till it becomes present and fades only

a bit when it becomes past! BUT by then, alas, it is too late!!

Why else do most of us continue to repeat our mistakes? :-(

 

Rishi: It is a series of events which a divinator

or a philospher or scientist creates by his own expectations of the

series of events based on his available skillset and knowledge.

RR: You are overdoing the 'creation' bit, Rishi. I am more

comfortable with the concept of 'expression'. Children raised

healthily always feel free to express! They do not always "create"

but knowing that limitation does not limit their creativity! They

start again, next session, pretty much anytime! It is that ability to

*jump start* naturally that separates the young from old SOULS! The

former have a *future*!!

 

Rishi: Even ordinary persons, like us, create this "arudha" or image

of our future based again an "expectations".

RR: Images are what we live -- we do not create! We were born at a

moment that most of us have no clear memory of ever creating! WE are

told by teachers and scriptures that we were the scribes of the stone

tablet that announced our creation but then we are kind of left to

fend for ourselves in the jungle of reality. Welcome to personal

astrology! Most of us do not practice it or even know how! Perhaps we

should before the stone becomes a headstone!

 

 

Rishi: Now when remedies are applied, it is again hese "expectations"

which are being judged or evaluated. What we normally call

a "miracle" is again an event which has happened against the flow or

run of "expectations".

RR: If expectations can be transformed into actions, life suddenly

changes its 'course' and we get a double promotion into the next

level of education and experience, Rishi! But, regardless -- we

continue to remain students -- ;-) JUST at a higher level, for what

it matters or is worth, in a short term or forever!

 

Rishi: So is the future really changing or are simply the

expectations of the observer changing?

Whatever is, is happening over a period of time. There is very little

understanding about the time a "bad" karma takes to repair when

repenting. Conversely there is again very little knowledge of the

potential rewards of the "good" karma.

RR: Karma plagues us and controls us as long as we *care* about it!

As long as we care what happens to us as we know and identify with

what we think of *I* as! Meditation is helpful because it gives us

brief pauses during which we can escape us or what we think of

ourselves as *I*! Do we have the patience and persistence??

 

 

Rishi: Each religion, each kaal, each desh and each patra set

normative standards of their own "expectations".

Leaving me thoroughly confused!

But I think have conveyed my basic doubt.

RR: YOU are older than all of them! It is not always necessary or

WISE to let a child teach you everything, particularly when you are a

PARENT and really in control and here to TEACH! No matter how cute

the child is! It shall grow and is not forever!

 

Love,

 

rohiniranjan

 

, "rishi_2000in"

<rishi_2000in wrote:

>

> There are a few more doubts, if I am permitted to differ.

> The future is not known. It is a series of events which a divinator

> or a philospher or scientist creates by his own expectations of the

> series of events based on his available skillset and knowledge.

> Even ordinary persons, like us, create this "arudha" or image of

our

> future based again an "expectations".

> Now when remedies are applied, it is again these "expectations"

which

> are being judged or evaluated. What we normally call a "miracle" is

> again an event which has happened against the flow or run

> of "expectations".

> So is the future really changing or are simply the expectations of

> the observer changing?

> Whatever is, is happening over a period of time. There is very

little

> understanding about the time a "bad" karma takes to repair when

> repenting. Conversely there is again very little knowledge of the

> potential rewards of the "good" karma.

> Each religion, each kaal, each desh and each patra set normative

> standards of their own "expectations".

> Leaving me thoroughly confused!

> But I think have conveyed my basic doubt.

> regards

> rishi

>

>

>

>

>

> , "crystal pages"

> <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> >

> > Tatvamasiji,

> >

> > One tiny sliver of doubt remains!

> >

> > Unless a 'tone' of anger or derision is employed, SOB would

create

> > the anger reaction only in those who understand the meaning of

that

> > acronym! By this token only those who understand sanskrit can

> benefit

> > from the mantras. Unless people were lying (why would they?) this

> > does not corroborate with empirical evidence. Even those who

> > pronounced mantras incorrectly were benefitted, as the reports

> > indicate.

> >

> > It is possible that the 'intention' was probably important in

some

> > cases and not what was chanted, but then there are many who had

> faith

> > and chanted with some knowledge of sanskrit (and beeja mantras

are

> > another level of understanding! Let us leave those aside for now)

> but

> > it did not make any difference! They might as well have chewed

gum!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , Tatvamasi

<om_tatsat_om@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Remedies are a part of free will that you use to delude

yourself

> > into making you feel good....This is for external remedies .

> > >

> > > Mantra remedies are powerful remedies in the sense that

> chemical

> > reactions of unbelievable nature can take place in one's body

when

> > there is an input of sound with meaning.

> > > For example, if I were to call some one SOB, no sooner he

hears

> > it, his Adernaline glands situated over his kidneys secrete extra

> > dose, his face becomes red, his heart pumps blood faster, his

brain

> > becomes super charged and eyes become wide and red etc. All these

> > happen in 100th to 1/10th of a second.

> > >

> > > Thus, one's body is suject to good and bed impulses thro

medium

> > of sound.

> > >

> > > I have seen miracles happening in my client's lives after

given

> > mantras are chanted . But not before they do prayaschitta prayer

> > which I take liberty to reproduce from my website.

> > >

> > > QUOTE,

> > >

> > > PRAYASCHITTA is like a cleansing Fire, which burns your Sins.

> No

> > one can escape Karma phala but by doing Prayaschitta the

Conscience

> > becomes clean and the suffering is considerably reduced.

> > > All planetary bad periods, bad transits (Gocharas) and bad

> Yogas

> > in Horoscopes result into suffering. This is God's way of

awarding

> > punishment for Karma.

> > > So when Planetes are to be appeased and Shanti Prayogas are

to

> be

> > performed,

> > > IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU DO THE NECESSARY

> > PRAYASCHITTA OR REPENTANCE BEFORE SUCH POOJA.

> > > Various forms of Prayaschitta have been prescribed by our

> > religious texts. I am simplifying the texts into a simple form as

> > under and if it is done with full faith, I am sure it will be as

> good

> > as doing such prayaschitta as laid down in Shastras.

> > > When you prepare yourself to do this prayaschitta, the best

way

> > is to ask for forgivance from wronged people. If this is not

> possible

> > next best thing to do is tell the image of God or Goddess of your

> > choice about all the sins committed by you. Among all the forms

of

> > God's images, the best is a Crystal or Sphatik.

> > > After getting the crystal form please do the poojas regularly

> for

> > at least one full circle of Moon, i.e., 28 days and then treat

> > crystal as living God and pour out your repentance to crystal.

> > >

> > >

> > > SIMPLE PRAYASCHITTA (REPENTANCE) PRAYER

> > > O God, I am suffering untold miseries due to my sins.

> > > I know that I have committed many sins and I need to be

> punished.

> > > I might have sinned knowingly or unknowingly in my past and

> > present births.

> > > I might have committed acts which are not allowed in any

> society

> > any religion or any place on earth.

> > > I might have pained many a soul living in all living things

> which

> > we can see or which we cannot see.

> > > Such souls might have resided in plants or animals.

> > > Please help me cleanse my soul as I am truly regretting for

> such

> > acts of sins.

> > > I promise that henceforth I will not commit such sins

knowingly

> > and do further acts of repentance by doing things beneficial to

> > people, places and this universe.

> > > So help me God.

> > >

> > > END QUOTE

> > >

> > > Tatvam-Asi

> > >

> > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > Dear Friends,

> > >

> > > As a general principle, anyone who has paid attention to the

> > thoughts

> > > expressed in this forum and similar other venues, dealing with

> > > jyotish, remedies, tantra, other forms of magic etc. several

> things

> > > emerge:

> > >

> > > Jyotish and its building blocks, cause and effect, over and

> across

> > > lifetimes and also within a single lifetime are based on the

> Karma

> > > principle, crudely described as: you reap what you sow. Some

say

> > the

> > > seed can be mental action, others maintain that it has to be a

> > > physical worldly action, a third party indicates that it has to

> > hurt

> > > someone, in mind, spirit or body. A tree fallen in the isolated

> > > forest does not count. [Ask the tree and its neighbours!]

> > >

> > > Remedies span a large variety, from the penance type to

powerful

> > > material and mineral ones, gemstones, amulets and spiritual:

> pooja

> > > etc. There are then numerous variations and combinations of all

> of

> > > these modalities. Poke around and ask around and you will come

up

> > > with anecdotal accounts that range from 100% success to dire

> > failure.

> > > It is a moving duck, shall we say.

> > >

> > > Then we venture or dabble into the nether realms (nothing to do

> > with

> > > the Dutch!) and we come across tantras and its high and low

paths

> > and

> > > at some point we run into statements as have been voiced here,

> > namely

> > > that tantra of the low type (some would compare that with

voodoo

> > and

> > > black magic, terms more meaningful to many modern individuals)

> can

> > be

> > > effective but the only lasting thing they bring is pain and

> anguish

> > > to the recipient (at whom it is directed), the instigator (who

> > > requested for the tantra) and the Shaman (who brought together

> the

> > > different realms and made energy jump across parallel universes

> or

> > > parallel realities as Quantum Physicists have started writing

> > about,

> > > without really understanding how it all really 'works'. So

human

> of

> > > them!).

> > >

> > > Point is, if any of these things, high or low or medium work,

> even

> > in

> > > some cases, then Karma is not absolute and can be altered and

> even

> > > manipulated in a crisis. There is always a price to pay, of

> course,

> > > but we all know the allegory by Faust of Mephistophiles <sp>!

It

> is

> > > not a eastern or western thought and all cultures probably have

> > > similar anecdotes, including the ultramodern IT culture with

its

> > > viruses and spyware and what not! Have you, as a non IT guy

ever

> > > talked to your IT service-person? Pure magic!!

> > >

> > > Regardless of its moral underpinnings and all the nine yards,

it

> > > seems that through all these options available, the common

> > mechanism

> > > and law is the law of free-will. Do not underestimate it, for

it

> > > comes at a price. Of personal responsibility, and in most cases

> > > immense POWER poised precariously over a platform of incomplete

> > > understanding and therefore ignorance.

> > >

> > > Take it from a ten year old boy who destroyed expensive

> > loudspeakers

> > > (power assisted by ignorance). Only through divine grace

> > (forgiveness

> > > of menacing old big brother) that boy now knows more about loud

> > > speakers than he ever would have! Karma ki gati nyari santon!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail Beta.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

RRji,

 

"create" was not the right word selection indeed. I agree with you , it

should be "express".

 

However, the future is expressed in terms of expectations. The

expectations arise out of the present stage of awareness of the observer

or the subject. My basic query was ..how do we know that the future

changed because of Karmik or religious or tantrik or for that matter and

other remedial measure.

 

regards

 

rishi

 

 

 

 

 

> Rishi: Now when remedies are applied, it is again hese

"expectations"

> which are being judged or evaluated. What we normally call

> a "miracle" is again an event which has happened against the flow or

> run of "expectations".

> RR: If expectations can be transformed into actions, life suddenly

> changes its 'course' and we get a double promotion into the next

> level of education and experience, Rishi! But, regardless -- we

> continue to remain students -- ;-) JUST at a higher level, for what

> it matters or is worth, in a short term or forever!

>

> Rishi: So is the future really changing or are simply the

> expectations of the observer changing?

> Whatever is, is happening over a period of time. There is very little

> understanding about the time a "bad" karma takes to repair when

> repenting. Conversely there is again very little knowledge of the

> potential rewards of the "good" karma.

> RR: Karma plagues us and controls us as long as we *care* about it!

> As long as we care what happens to us as we know and identify with

> what we think of *I* as! Meditation is helpful because it gives us

> brief pauses during which we can escape us or what we think of

> ourselves as *I*! Do we have the patience and persistence??

>

>

> Rishi: Each religion, each kaal, each desh and each patra set

> normative standards of their own "expectations".

> Leaving me thoroughly confused!

> But I think have conveyed my basic doubt.

> RR: YOU are older than all of them! It is not always necessary or

> WISE to let a child teach you everything, particularly when you are a

> PARENT and really in control and here to TEACH! No matter how cute

> the child is! It shall grow and is not forever!

>

> Love,

>

> rohiniranjan

>

> , "rishi_2000in"

> rishi_2000in@ wrote:

> >

> > There are a few more doubts, if I am permitted to differ.

> > The future is not known. It is a series of events which a divinator

> > or a philospher or scientist creates by his own expectations of the

> > series of events based on his available skillset and knowledge.

> > Even ordinary persons, like us, create this "arudha" or image of

> our

> > future based again an "expectations".

> > Now when remedies are applied, it is again these "expectations"

> which

> > are being judged or evaluated. What we normally call a "miracle" is

> > again an event which has happened against the flow or run

> > of "expectations".

> > So is the future really changing or are simply the expectations of

> > the observer changing?

> > Whatever is, is happening over a period of time. There is very

> little

> > understanding about the time a "bad" karma takes to repair when

> > repenting. Conversely there is again very little knowledge of the

> > potential rewards of the "good" karma.

> > Each religion, each kaal, each desh and each patra set normative

> > standards of their own "expectations".

> > Leaving me thoroughly confused!

> > But I think have conveyed my basic doubt.

> > regards

> > rishi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , "crystal pages"

> > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Tatvamasiji,

> > >

> > > One tiny sliver of doubt remains!

> > >

> > > Unless a 'tone' of anger or derision is employed, SOB would

> create

> > > the anger reaction only in those who understand the meaning of

> that

> > > acronym! By this token only those who understand sanskrit can

> > benefit

> > > from the mantras. Unless people were lying (why would they?) this

> > > does not corroborate with empirical evidence. Even those who

> > > pronounced mantras incorrectly were benefitted, as the reports

> > > indicate.

> > >

> > > It is possible that the 'intention' was probably important in

> some

> > > cases and not what was chanted, but then there are many who had

> > faith

> > > and chanted with some knowledge of sanskrit (and beeja mantras

> are

> > > another level of understanding! Let us leave those aside for now)

> > but

> > > it did not make any difference! They might as well have chewed

> gum!

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , Tatvamasi

> <om_tatsat_om@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Remedies are a part of free will that you use to delude

> yourself

> > > into making you feel good....This is for external remedies .

> > > >

> > > > Mantra remedies are powerful remedies in the sense that

> > chemical

> > > reactions of unbelievable nature can take place in one's body

> when

> > > there is an input of sound with meaning.

> > > > For example, if I were to call some one SOB, no sooner he

> hears

> > > it, his Adernaline glands situated over his kidneys secrete extra

> > > dose, his face becomes red, his heart pumps blood faster, his

> brain

> > > becomes super charged and eyes become wide and red etc. All these

> > > happen in 100th to 1/10th of a second.

> > > >

> > > > Thus, one's body is suject to good and bed impulses thro

> medium

> > > of sound.

> > > >

> > > > I have seen miracles happening in my client's lives after

> given

> > > mantras are chanted . But not before they do prayaschitta prayer

> > > which I take liberty to reproduce from my website.

> > > >

> > > > QUOTE,

> > > >

> > > > PRAYASCHITTA is like a cleansing Fire, which burns your Sins.

> > No

> > > one can escape Karma phala but by doing Prayaschitta the

> Conscience

> > > becomes clean and the suffering is considerably reduced.

> > > > All planetary bad periods, bad transits (Gocharas) and bad

> > Yogas

> > > in Horoscopes result into suffering. This is God's way of

> awarding

> > > punishment for Karma.

> > > > So when Planetes are to be appeased and Shanti Prayogas are

> to

> > be

> > > performed,

> > > > IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU DO THE NECESSARY

> > > PRAYASCHITTA OR REPENTANCE BEFORE SUCH POOJA.

> > > > Various forms of Prayaschitta have been prescribed by our

> > > religious texts. I am simplifying the texts into a simple form as

> > > under and if it is done with full faith, I am sure it will be as

> > good

> > > as doing such prayaschitta as laid down in Shastras.

> > > > When you prepare yourself to do this prayaschitta, the best

> way

> > > is to ask for forgivance from wronged people. If this is not

> > possible

> > > next best thing to do is tell the image of God or Goddess of your

> > > choice about all the sins committed by you. Among all the forms

> of

> > > God's images, the best is a Crystal or Sphatik.

> > > > After getting the crystal form please do the poojas regularly

> > for

> > > at least one full circle of Moon, i.e., 28 days and then treat

> > > crystal as living God and pour out your repentance to crystal.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > SIMPLE PRAYASCHITTA (REPENTANCE) PRAYER

> > > > O God, I am suffering untold miseries due to my sins.

> > > > I know that I have committed many sins and I need to be

> > punished.

> > > > I might have sinned knowingly or unknowingly in my past and

> > > present births.

> > > > I might have committed acts which are not allowed in any

> > society

> > > any religion or any place on earth.

> > > > I might have pained many a soul living in all living things

> > which

> > > we can see or which we cannot see.

> > > > Such souls might have resided in plants or animals.

> > > > Please help me cleanse my soul as I am truly regretting for

> > such

> > > acts of sins.

> > > > I promise that henceforth I will not commit such sins

> knowingly

> > > and do further acts of repentance by doing things beneficial to

> > > people, places and this universe.

> > > > So help me God.

> > > >

> > > > END QUOTE

> > > >

> > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > >

> > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > Dear Friends,

> > > >

> > > > As a general principle, anyone who has paid attention to the

> > > thoughts

> > > > expressed in this forum and similar other venues, dealing with

> > > > jyotish, remedies, tantra, other forms of magic etc. several

> > things

> > > > emerge:

> > > >

> > > > Jyotish and its building blocks, cause and effect, over and

> > across

> > > > lifetimes and also within a single lifetime are based on the

> > Karma

> > > > principle, crudely described as: you reap what you sow. Some

> say

> > > the

> > > > seed can be mental action, others maintain that it has to be a

> > > > physical worldly action, a third party indicates that it has to

> > > hurt

> > > > someone, in mind, spirit or body. A tree fallen in the isolated

> > > > forest does not count. [Ask the tree and its neighbours!]

> > > >

> > > > Remedies span a large variety, from the penance type to

> powerful

> > > > material and mineral ones, gemstones, amulets and spiritual:

> > pooja

> > > > etc. There are then numerous variations and combinations of all

> > of

> > > > these modalities. Poke around and ask around and you will come

> up

> > > > with anecdotal accounts that range from 100% success to dire

> > > failure.

> > > > It is a moving duck, shall we say.

> > > >

> > > > Then we venture or dabble into the nether realms (nothing to do

> > > with

> > > > the Dutch!) and we come across tantras and its high and low

> paths

> > > and

> > > > at some point we run into statements as have been voiced here,

> > > namely

> > > > that tantra of the low type (some would compare that with

> voodoo

> > > and

> > > > black magic, terms more meaningful to many modern individuals)

> > can

> > > be

> > > > effective but the only lasting thing they bring is pain and

> > anguish

> > > > to the recipient (at whom it is directed), the instigator (who

> > > > requested for the tantra) and the Shaman (who brought together

> > the

> > > > different realms and made energy jump across parallel universes

> > or

> > > > parallel realities as Quantum Physicists have started writing

> > > about,

> > > > without really understanding how it all really 'works'. So

> human

> > of

> > > > them!).

> > > >

> > > > Point is, if any of these things, high or low or medium work,

> > even

> > > in

> > > > some cases, then Karma is not absolute and can be altered and

> > even

> > > > manipulated in a crisis. There is always a price to pay, of

> > course,

> > > > but we all know the allegory by Faust of Mephistophiles <sp>!

> It

> > is

> > > > not a eastern or western thought and all cultures probably have

> > > > similar anecdotes, including the ultramodern IT culture with

> its

> > > > viruses and spyware and what not! Have you, as a non IT guy

> ever

> > > > talked to your IT service-person? Pure magic!!

> > > >

> > > > Regardless of its moral underpinnings and all the nine yards,

> it

> > > > seems that through all these options available, the common

> > > mechanism

> > > > and law is the law of free-will. Do not underestimate it, for

> it

> > > > comes at a price. Of personal responsibility, and in most cases

> > > > immense POWER poised precariously over a platform of incomplete

> > > > understanding and therefore ignorance.

> > > >

> > > > Take it from a ten year old boy who destroyed expensive

> > > loudspeakers

> > > > (power assisted by ignorance). Only through divine grace

> > > (forgiveness

> > > > of menacing old big brother) that boy now knows more about loud

> > > > speakers than he ever would have! Karma ki gati nyari santon!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail Beta.

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

That Rishi would remain a big question because there is no tape

replay and no controlled experiments in jyotish :-)

 

Faith, it seems would be needed by both jatak and jyotishis!

 

RR

 

, "rishi_2000in"

<rishi_2000in wrote:

>

>

> RRji,

>

> "create" was not the right word selection indeed. I agree with

you , it

> should be "express".

>

> However, the future is expressed in terms of expectations. The

> expectations arise out of the present stage of awareness of the

observer

> or the subject. My basic query was ..how do we know that the future

> changed because of Karmik or religious or tantrik or for that

matter and

> other remedial measure.

>

> regards

>

> rishi

>

>

>

>

>

> > Rishi: Now when remedies are applied, it is again hese

> "expectations"

> > which are being judged or evaluated. What we normally call

> > a "miracle" is again an event which has happened against the flow

or

> > run of "expectations".

> > RR: If expectations can be transformed into actions, life suddenly

> > changes its 'course' and we get a double promotion into the next

> > level of education and experience, Rishi! But, regardless -- we

> > continue to remain students -- ;-) JUST at a higher level, for

what

> > it matters or is worth, in a short term or forever!

> >

> > Rishi: So is the future really changing or are simply the

> > expectations of the observer changing?

> > Whatever is, is happening over a period of time. There is very

little

> > understanding about the time a "bad" karma takes to repair when

> > repenting. Conversely there is again very little knowledge of the

> > potential rewards of the "good" karma.

> > RR: Karma plagues us and controls us as long as we *care* about

it!

> > As long as we care what happens to us as we know and identify with

> > what we think of *I* as! Meditation is helpful because it gives us

> > brief pauses during which we can escape us or what we think of

> > ourselves as *I*! Do we have the patience and persistence??

> >

> >

> > Rishi: Each religion, each kaal, each desh and each patra set

> > normative standards of their own "expectations".

> > Leaving me thoroughly confused!

> > But I think have conveyed my basic doubt.

> > RR: YOU are older than all of them! It is not always necessary or

> > WISE to let a child teach you everything, particularly when you

are a

> > PARENT and really in control and here to TEACH! No matter how cute

> > the child is! It shall grow and is not forever!

> >

> > Love,

> >

> > rohiniranjan

> >

> > , "rishi_2000in"

> > rishi_2000in@ wrote:

> > >

> > > There are a few more doubts, if I am permitted to differ.

> > > The future is not known. It is a series of events which a

divinator

> > > or a philospher or scientist creates by his own expectations of

the

> > > series of events based on his available skillset and knowledge.

> > > Even ordinary persons, like us, create this "arudha" or image of

> > our

> > > future based again an "expectations".

> > > Now when remedies are applied, it is again these "expectations"

> > which

> > > are being judged or evaluated. What we normally call

a "miracle" is

> > > again an event which has happened against the flow or run

> > > of "expectations".

> > > So is the future really changing or are simply the expectations

of

> > > the observer changing?

> > > Whatever is, is happening over a period of time. There is very

> > little

> > > understanding about the time a "bad" karma takes to repair when

> > > repenting. Conversely there is again very little knowledge of

the

> > > potential rewards of the "good" karma.

> > > Each religion, each kaal, each desh and each patra set normative

> > > standards of their own "expectations".

> > > Leaving me thoroughly confused!

> > > But I think have conveyed my basic doubt.

> > > regards

> > > rishi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , "crystal pages"

> > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Tatvamasiji,

> > > >

> > > > One tiny sliver of doubt remains!

> > > >

> > > > Unless a 'tone' of anger or derision is employed, SOB would

> > create

> > > > the anger reaction only in those who understand the meaning of

> > that

> > > > acronym! By this token only those who understand sanskrit can

> > > benefit

> > > > from the mantras. Unless people were lying (why would they?)

this

> > > > does not corroborate with empirical evidence. Even those who

> > > > pronounced mantras incorrectly were benefitted, as the reports

> > > > indicate.

> > > >

> > > > It is possible that the 'intention' was probably important in

> > some

> > > > cases and not what was chanted, but then there are many who

had

> > > faith

> > > > and chanted with some knowledge of sanskrit (and beeja mantras

> > are

> > > > another level of understanding! Let us leave those aside for

now)

> > > but

> > > > it did not make any difference! They might as well have chewed

> > gum!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > , Tatvamasi

> > <om_tatsat_om@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Remedies are a part of free will that you use to delude

> > yourself

> > > > into making you feel good....This is for external remedies .

> > > > >

> > > > > Mantra remedies are powerful remedies in the sense that

> > > chemical

> > > > reactions of unbelievable nature can take place in one's body

> > when

> > > > there is an input of sound with meaning.

> > > > > For example, if I were to call some one SOB, no sooner he

> > hears

> > > > it, his Adernaline glands situated over his kidneys secrete

extra

> > > > dose, his face becomes red, his heart pumps blood faster, his

> > brain

> > > > becomes super charged and eyes become wide and red etc. All

these

> > > > happen in 100th to 1/10th of a second.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus, one's body is suject to good and bed impulses thro

> > medium

> > > > of sound.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have seen miracles happening in my client's lives after

> > given

> > > > mantras are chanted . But not before they do prayaschitta

prayer

> > > > which I take liberty to reproduce from my website.

> > > > >

> > > > > QUOTE,

> > > > >

> > > > > PRAYASCHITTA is like a cleansing Fire, which burns your

Sins.

> > > No

> > > > one can escape Karma phala but by doing Prayaschitta the

> > Conscience

> > > > becomes clean and the suffering is considerably reduced.

> > > > > All planetary bad periods, bad transits (Gocharas) and bad

> > > Yogas

> > > > in Horoscopes result into suffering. This is God's way of

> > awarding

> > > > punishment for Karma.

> > > > > So when Planetes are to be appeased and Shanti Prayogas are

> > to

> > > be

> > > > performed,

> > > > > IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU DO THE NECESSARY

> > > > PRAYASCHITTA OR REPENTANCE BEFORE SUCH POOJA.

> > > > > Various forms of Prayaschitta have been prescribed by our

> > > > religious texts. I am simplifying the texts into a simple

form as

> > > > under and if it is done with full faith, I am sure it will be

as

> > > good

> > > > as doing such prayaschitta as laid down in Shastras.

> > > > > When you prepare yourself to do this prayaschitta, the best

> > way

> > > > is to ask for forgivance from wronged people. If this is not

> > > possible

> > > > next best thing to do is tell the image of God or Goddess of

your

> > > > choice about all the sins committed by you. Among all the

forms

> > of

> > > > God's images, the best is a Crystal or Sphatik.

> > > > > After getting the crystal form please do the poojas

regularly

> > > for

> > > > at least one full circle of Moon, i.e., 28 days and then treat

> > > > crystal as living God and pour out your repentance to crystal.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > SIMPLE PRAYASCHITTA (REPENTANCE) PRAYER

> > > > > O God, I am suffering untold miseries due to my sins.

> > > > > I know that I have committed many sins and I need to be

> > > punished.

> > > > > I might have sinned knowingly or unknowingly in my past and

> > > > present births.

> > > > > I might have committed acts which are not allowed in any

> > > society

> > > > any religion or any place on earth.

> > > > > I might have pained many a soul living in all living things

> > > which

> > > > we can see or which we cannot see.

> > > > > Such souls might have resided in plants or animals.

> > > > > Please help me cleanse my soul as I am truly regretting for

> > > such

> > > > acts of sins.

> > > > > I promise that henceforth I will not commit such sins

> > knowingly

> > > > and do further acts of repentance by doing things beneficial

to

> > > > people, places and this universe.

> > > > > So help me God.

> > > > >

> > > > > END QUOTE

> > > > >

> > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > >

> > > > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani@> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > As a general principle, anyone who has paid attention to the

> > > > thoughts

> > > > > expressed in this forum and similar other venues, dealing

with

> > > > > jyotish, remedies, tantra, other forms of magic etc. several

> > > things

> > > > > emerge:

> > > > >

> > > > > Jyotish and its building blocks, cause and effect, over and

> > > across

> > > > > lifetimes and also within a single lifetime are based on the

> > > Karma

> > > > > principle, crudely described as: you reap what you sow. Some

> > say

> > > > the

> > > > > seed can be mental action, others maintain that it has to

be a

> > > > > physical worldly action, a third party indicates that it

has to

> > > > hurt

> > > > > someone, in mind, spirit or body. A tree fallen in the

isolated

> > > > > forest does not count. [Ask the tree and its neighbours!]

> > > > >

> > > > > Remedies span a large variety, from the penance type to

> > powerful

> > > > > material and mineral ones, gemstones, amulets and spiritual:

> > > pooja

> > > > > etc. There are then numerous variations and combinations of

all

> > > of

> > > > > these modalities. Poke around and ask around and you will

come

> > up

> > > > > with anecdotal accounts that range from 100% success to dire

> > > > failure.

> > > > > It is a moving duck, shall we say.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then we venture or dabble into the nether realms (nothing

to do

> > > > with

> > > > > the Dutch!) and we come across tantras and its high and low

> > paths

> > > > and

> > > > > at some point we run into statements as have been voiced

here,

> > > > namely

> > > > > that tantra of the low type (some would compare that with

> > voodoo

> > > > and

> > > > > black magic, terms more meaningful to many modern

individuals)

> > > can

> > > > be

> > > > > effective but the only lasting thing they bring is pain and

> > > anguish

> > > > > to the recipient (at whom it is directed), the instigator

(who

> > > > > requested for the tantra) and the Shaman (who brought

together

> > > the

> > > > > different realms and made energy jump across parallel

universes

> > > or

> > > > > parallel realities as Quantum Physicists have started

writing

> > > > about,

> > > > > without really understanding how it all really 'works'. So

> > human

> > > of

> > > > > them!).

> > > > >

> > > > > Point is, if any of these things, high or low or medium

work,

> > > even

> > > > in

> > > > > some cases, then Karma is not absolute and can be altered

and

> > > even

> > > > > manipulated in a crisis. There is always a price to pay, of

> > > course,

> > > > > but we all know the allegory by Faust of Mephistophiles

<sp>!

> > It

> > > is

> > > > > not a eastern or western thought and all cultures probably

have

> > > > > similar anecdotes, including the ultramodern IT culture with

> > its

> > > > > viruses and spyware and what not! Have you, as a non IT guy

> > ever

> > > > > talked to your IT service-person? Pure magic!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Regardless of its moral underpinnings and all the nine

yards,

> > it

> > > > > seems that through all these options available, the common

> > > > mechanism

> > > > > and law is the law of free-will. Do not underestimate it,

for

> > it

> > > > > comes at a price. Of personal responsibility, and in most

cases

> > > > > immense POWER poised precariously over a platform of

incomplete

> > > > > understanding and therefore ignorance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take it from a ten year old boy who destroyed expensive

> > > > loudspeakers

> > > > > (power assisted by ignorance). Only through divine grace

> > > > (forgiveness

> > > > > of menacing old big brother) that boy now knows more about

loud

> > > > > speakers than he ever would have! Karma ki gati nyari

santon!

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Mail

Beta.

> > > > >

> > > > >