R: please differentiate

[Guest guest]

dear emy

 

perhaps you did not read my post

 

"but this idea, taken to the logical extreme, does not support health,

and unless the goal is truly founded upon the highest aspirations,

which laughs in the face of death, it does do nothing except create

doubt and confusion"

 

this is in reference to the jaina practice of ahimsa called santhara, which is a voluntary fast

until death

 

i can only imagine that this is possible when one no longer is concerned about self-

preservation, as per the Jaina saint Pujyapada:

 

"Body, house, wealth and wife,

sons and friends and enemies -

all are different from the soul.

Only a fool thinks them his own

 

>From all directions come the birds

and rest together in the trees

but in the morning each goes his own way,

flying in all directions.

 

Death is not for me - why should i fear?

Disease is not for me - why then should i dispair?

I am not a child, nor a youth, nor an old man -

all these states are only of my body

 

Time and gain in my foolishness i have enjoyed

all kinds of body and have discarded them.

Now I am wise!

Why should I long for rubbish

 

The soul is one thing, matter another -

this is the quintessence of truth.

Whatever else may be said

is merely its elaboration"

 

 

best... todd caldecott

[Guest guest]

ayurveda, "Todd Caldecott" <todd

wrote:

> "but this idea, taken to the logical extreme, does not support

health,

> and unless the goal is truly founded upon the highest aspirations,

> which laughs in the face of death, it does do nothing except create

> doubt and confusion"

>

> this is in reference to the jaina practice of ahimsa called

santhara, which is a voluntary fast

> until death

 

Similar is the case of accepting death, when life is "Dull", "dead"

without food, wine and women.

 

Vegetarianism appears to be a interesting topic to preach for yogis and saintly persons.

 

A saint, after curing more than 4000 cancer cases, wrote a book.

In the introductory chaper of the book, "Cancer, its causes symptoms

and Treatments", Eli Jones writes in 1911:

 

The rapid increase of cancer throughout the civilized world may be

explained by the following great causes of cancer:

 

· First. Worriment of Mind. Worrying weakens the nervous

system, lowers the "nerve power" and thus opens the way for the

invasion of cancer. In all countries where you find insanity on the

increase you will find cancer a close second. In Chicago where

insanity has increased the fastest in the world, cancer has increased

812% from 1861 to the present time.

 

· Second. Vaccination. In all states. and countries where there

is enforced vaccination there you will find cancer on the increase.

 

· Third. Meat-eating. Meat-eating is a prolific cause of

cancer. In England the mortality from cancer has increased; it is 4

1/2, times greater than it was fifty years ago. The people consume

131 pounds of beef per head every year. Is it any wonder that

the "Beef Eaters" have cancer? In twenty-five countries using meat

largely, nineteen had a high death-rate from cancer, five a moderate

and one a low rate. In countries where the diet is almost entirely

vegetable there you will find very few cases of cancer. In Bombay, in

1875, the death-rate from cancer was only one in 10,000; in England

5.5 per 100,000. In Egypt cancer is never found among the black races

who are vegetarians, among Arabs and Copts, who eat as Europeans. In

the monastery of the Grand Trappe, where the diet excludes tea,

coffee and meat there has not been a case of cancer for twenty-seven

years.

 

· Fourth. Tea and Coffee. Tea and coffee weaken the coats of

the stomach and the nervous system and produce various disorders in

the human system. In all countries where the people drink tea and

coffee freely there you will tend cancer on the increase. Our own

country -- America -- has become a nation of "tea drinkers"; as a

result three out of five persons have some form of dyspepsia or

indigestion, and cancer has increased from one in ninety-one in 1850

to one in twelve in 1890. In thirty countries drinking very much tea

and coffee, twenty-five had a very high death-rate, five a moderate,

and none a low rate. In America we are becoming a nation of nervous,

hysterical people, and insanity is on the increase. It must be ever

borne in mind that if the nerve power falls below the normal standard

there is danger of invasion of cancer.

 

· Fifth. Alcoholic Stimulants. The use of intoxicating liquors

is a fruitful cause of cancer. In all countries where they are used

to excess there cancer is on the increase. In England among the wine

and spirit merchants, the death-rate is five times greater than other

men. Beer-drinking towns such as Munich, Stuttgardt and Copenhagen

have a high mortality from cancer.

 

What our people need is to be taught how to live. There must be

temperance in all things. Good pure water, good pure air helps to

make good healthy red blood. Unadulterated food, mostly vegetables,

easily digested, leaving out tea and coffee, keep the nervous system

strong and vigorous. Stop worrying. In this way we can protect

ourselves against the dreaded monster -- CANCER. A return to

the "simple life" of our forefathers is what we need. Modern

civilization, with all its luxury, high living and drinking, and

filling the stomach with all kinds of food and drink (the most of it

never intended for the human stomach), is only encouraging the

inroads of cancer.

 

It is to be noted that except Alcohol and Nicotin, we did not have

the chemical soup of today to attribute cause of cancer to chemicals

in environments! can you contradict Jones?

 

Hindus did not always believe in the merits of vegetarianism.

During the early Vedic period meat was often consumed after animal

sacrifice to the Gods. In time, Animal sacrifices became less

popular, and although people didn't give up eating meat entirely,

they ate much less of it. Gradually, a lot of people became

vegetarians. The growth of Buddhism and Jainism, both of which

preached ahimsa (or non-violence) towards all living beings, also

helped spread vegetarianism.[20]

 

A great change is round the corner. Today India has the highest

population of vegetarians in the world. According to reports 20% of

India's population is vegetarian.[21]

 

There is also evidence of vegetarianism in the Vedas, Upanishads,

Dharma Shastras, Yoga Sutras and most sacred texts of Hindus. These

scriptures unambiguously support the meatless diet. This was observed

by the ancient traveler Megasthenes and also by Fa-Hsien, a Chinese

Buddhist monk who, in the fifth century, traveled to India in order

to obtain authentic copies of the scriptures.[19] Even Mahabharata, the great epic of India, supports vegetarianism, according to following research, with proper reference.

 

Excerpts with The references can be seen on:

http://www.swaveda.com/articles.php?action=show&id=39

[survey of Vegetarianism: The Journey of an Idea]

 

Lastly, ayurveda supports using animal matters in medicines, take

amber for instance. But it is not clear whether it encourages animal

should be killed to obtain those matters? If one goes through various

texts giving medicine formulations, stress on use of animal

excreations (urine, stools) appears to be more than their blood,

liver, testicles etc. The horns of cow gives very rich manure. Mostly

recycling of dead animal parts was the practice, while more use of

animal fats, bones (gelatine, capsules e.g.) came from West.

 

This diet discussion has taken momentum from the basic post on

Mutrakrichha/Mutraghata if we see ayurveda hierarchical thread.

Is it a coincidence that excess animal food leads to one of these

conditions? or Renal failure? The proponents of raw diet say that our

highest growth rate is obseved when we are taking mothers milk, which

contains no more than 5% fat or proteins. And there are many healthy

individuals living beyond age 80, with good vision, joints, memory.

Their protein/fat intake is very little, perhaps just about what they

get in milk and lentils.

 

The trouble is india gave births to yogis and saints, not invaders

and agrresives. Last 10,000 years india did not cross its borders

unless invaded from west recently east too! Satvic indian diet may have been the reason.

 

Dr Bhate

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Bhate,

I beg to differ with u on the following note u have made: "Hindus did not always believe in the merits of vegetarianism. During the early Vedic period meat was often consumed after animal sacrifice to the Gods. In time, Animal sacrifices became less popular, and although people didn't give up eating meat entirely,

they ate much less of it. Gradually, a lot of people became vegetarians. "

This is completely untrue. Anybody who understands the basics of the Vedic concept of life & growth and

the dynamics of life also understands that meat etc had & have no place with anything Vedic. Either some scholars have misinterpreted words (literally) or got influenced by certain works of pre-Buddha (or later)period when fallen communities had started misusing the Vedic karmkanda. Ahinsa etc. are all Vedic concepts and Buddha re-asserted it. He corrected the erring Brahmins and told them them "earlier this ( use of flesh in rituals)was never the practice." Dr. Radhakrishnan has written a good book on this.

This decay had set in the society, a long after the Mahabharata war. But before that no meat eating or its use in any ritual. The word "Go' has been completely mis-understood by modern historians. This "Go' has 32 connotations in the Vedas. Moreover, Vedas can not be understood intellectually. Rather, one has to go into higher levels of consciousness to understand Vedas. Thats why Vedas were not revealed to all & sundry. Unqualified ( due to dormant consciousness) people will always misinterpret Vedas.

Use of meat in sacrifice ( Yagya) was unthinkable in Vedic civilization. Particularly in early part, as the civilisation was more advanced, all ways. The reason is simple. The concept of 3 gunas ( Satva, Rajas & Tamas) explain it.

Yashendra

Shirish Bhate <shirishbhate > wrote:

ayurveda, "Todd Caldecott" <todd

wrote:

> "but this idea, taken to the logical extreme, does not support

health,

> and unless the goal is truly founded upon the highest aspirations,

> which laughs in the face of death, it does do nothing except create

> doubt and confusion"

>

> this is in reference to the jaina practice of ahimsa called

santhara, which is a voluntary fast

> until death

<snip>

 

It is to be noted that except Alcohol and Nicotin, we did not have

the chemical soup of today to attribute cause of cancer to chemicals

in environments! can you contradict Jones?

 

Hindus did not always believe in the merits of vegetarianism.

During the early Vedic period meat was often consumed after animal

sacrifice to the Gods. In time, Animal sacrifices became less

popular, and although people didn't give up eating meat entirely,

they ate much less of it. Gradually, a lot of people became

vegetarians. The growth of Buddhism and Jainism, both of which

preached ahimsa (or non-violence) towards all living beings, also

helped spread vegetarianism.[20]

 

A great change is round the corner. Today India has the highest

population of vegetarians in the world. According to reports 20% of

India's population is vegetarian.[21]

 

There is also evidence of vegetarianism in the Vedas, Upanishads,

Dharma Shastras, Yoga Sutras and most sacred texts of Hindus. These

scriptures unambiguously support the meatless diet. This was observed

by the ancient traveler Megasthenes and also by Fa-Hsien, a Chinese

Buddhist monk who, in the fifth century, traveled to India in order

to obtain authentic copies of the scriptures.[19] Even Mahabharata, the great epic of India, supports vegetarianism, according to following research, with proper reference.

 

Excerpts with The references can be seen on:

http://www.swaveda.com/articles.php?action=show&id=39

[survey of Vegetarianism: The Journey of an Idea]

[Guest guest]

Dear Yeshendra

 

The paragraph you picked to differ, has appeared on the website

 

http://www.swaveda.com/articles.php?action=show&id=39

 

and this website has the refrence:

 

http://www.indianchild.com/vegeterianism_in_india.htm

During the ancient Aryan Vedic period meat was consumed after animal

sacrifice to the Gods. This slowly changed with the rise of Jainism

and Buddhisim, since their founders advocated the principle of ahimsa

or ''non-violence''. The Brahman priests, who used to exploit the

people and advocated animal sacrifices as offerings in the name of

religion, also began to preach Vegeterianism since it gained much

popularity in India. They began to embrace Vegeterianism by

following a vegetarian diet themselves. However due to this constant

exploitation of the people, these Brahmin priests soon began losing

their status and respect in the society, which once placed them in

the highest strata.

 

The practice of offering a sacrifice in Yagya exists even today, and

instead of animal, a coconut is offered. To see a yagya personally

you can visit a place called Sakuri, about 5 km from Shirdi (near

Nasik). The uniqueness of this yagya is that all priests are women! Every year Yagya is conducted there on , Gurupournima day (falls on 11thJuly 2006 this year) also on Makar Sankranti day (14th January), on 8th day of Navratri in Aashwin as well as on Ramnavami day.

 

In some tribal villages, the village vaidya/tantrik/mantrik is seen

exploiting tribals even today. We read stories where not only animal

but even a baby or child is sacrificed by some illiterate couple to

have issues of their own!

 

The purpose of including a paragraph from a website was to bring out

that animal sacrifice was an exception, only in a Yagya. But in

Ramayana, Rama and Laxmana were specifically invited to kill demons

who were disturbing yagays by throwing animal flesh in holy fire.

 

Your point is well taken, it is india who originated vegetarianism

and even Pythagoras followed it according to above site. Those who

were following vegetarianism were called Pythagoreans! (swaveda.com)

Many other philosophers appear to be following it and it appears that

philosophy is a good subject for vegetarians! Leo Tolstoy, George

Bernard Shaw,Leonardo da Vinci, Henry Salt, Gandhiji and others.

 

Regards

Dr Bhate

 

 

 

ayurveda, Yashendra Prasad

<yashendra2 wrote:

>

> Dear Dr. Bhate,

>

> I beg to differ with u on the following note u have made: "Hindus

did not always believe in the merits of vegetarianism. During the

early Vedic period meat was often consumed after animal sacrifice to

the Gods. In time, Animal sacrifices became less popular, and

although people didn't give up eating meat entirely,

> they ate much less of it. Gradually, a lot of people became

vegetarians. "

>

> This is completely untrue. Anybody who understands the basics of

the Vedic concept of life & growth and