man made bias in the name of god-Sabirmala 1/7 p2

July 1, 2006

Ganesh,

I be live in inclusiveness not exclusiveness as some practices do, same way I have no ill feelings on u or anyone I had mentioned only reason I put suggestive names as in TAMIL issue I had only stated the need for standard words which all can follow. But u dragged me into ANTI-TAMIL tag, I am here so how Can I have such anti- thoughts if any. but these r facts in ICAS which was founded by B V Raman, K Ashwattapa, Srinivas Reddy, AV Sundaram, Navratnamal, Murali rao etc i was also in that list in2nd lot.

there used to be debates, good group discussions every 2,5th, 5th Sat in astrology when ASHWATTAPA headed the sessions, later when U S Pulipanim for 12 yrs now Narayanan are in top it is just TAMIL and nothing of astrology they talk, we don't have useful work commng like Delhi, Bangalore chapters have,MR A V sundaram [now in Hyd said a lot of enthusiastic research, work is there in Hyd in CHENNAI THEY OFFER FREE LUNCH, other place u pay, still poor attendance as the quality, content is just Tamil, Tamil glory not astrology.

About Sabarimala I feel it is time the temple authorities reformed had separate times may be some months when the temple is closed also to allow women alone, and in other times just a few hrs for women devotes who are not having or expecting periods, sure women will respect the temple Marayada in other places they don't go during periods on their own. so allow, respect women to do so in free-will not such fatwa based ones and the fear i Hear now that devotees from TN are outraged at JAIMALA'S CLAIM which they dispute and want to eliminate or hurt her for it is this faith? where is Himsa part of any vedic or religious thouht,

TIRUPATI had such rules in 40's now they are liberal so must all temples, places of worship irrespective of faith.

when other faiths are paying tons of money to convert to their faith we must not loose our own who want to come and follow some rules not rigid ones.

reform, cleanliness of places of worship, pilgrim conmforts, health care, safety is all we need to strongly insist in all religious places of mass gathering.

sriganeshh <sriganeshh > wrote: Dear Prashantji,

//I hope readers like Sriganesh, srinivas natarajan won't find it as

a bias I want women also to have a darshan in seperate times or

ques, why wait till they r 50. and also all faiths r down on faith

it is her mentality more. so offesne on ayappa's.//

why you have to add this pointer.....i feel specifically mentioning

names itself reveals that you still carry illfeeling ....my point of

rebuttal is on tamil issue as you keep on touching the sentiments

without any real understanding of the problem over there...that's

all and nothing more...

About this ayyappa issue, myself is a worshipper of devi srilalitha

maha tripura sundari and i respect all practices in all religions

and hence no comments on this thread..

i have seen arjunji's mail and look at this issue as one which gives

me opportunity to reason out why there are so many differences in

religious practices...we can say different agama shastras and

different sila nirnaya paddhati say in palani, the statue is made of

navapashana..and hence no abishek on the main statute, in

thiruchendur the vibhuti(sacred ash) is given in some specific

leaves....why there is so much difference and why it has been kept

like this...why nobody questioned these practices...all these days

etc.,

one thing positive is offlate i was keen to learn abt ashtamangala

prashna but postponing due to time constraints and this incident has

provided me more resolve to learn as soon as possible.

i dont want to take your view that it is simple herd mentality...no

way especially in this information age...if you can enlighten me,you

are most welcome. but if you want fight with me keeping

illfeelings...you can do that too...

sriganeshh

>

> panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004

wrote: dear friends

>

> the recent sabarimala controversy due to jayamala's confession

to an

> astrologer made public, has made the media busy with portraying

such

> rules as gender bias.

>

> no god ever tells that only one religion people shall come to me.

> earlier in india in the same religion also lower castes were not

> allowed to visit temples. now in the same religion females are

not

> allowed. in another temple in the south, foreigners are not

allowed

> even to have a darshan at a distance and all they can watch is

the

> temple from outside. truly these things are spoiling the

reputation

> of the great vedic culture and this holy land which has been

> treating all humans equally .

>

> most famous holy places are situated in the north, be it ayodhya,

> mathura, kashi or many jyotirlingas and shakti peethas and in all

> these places, all humans (including females) are allowed inside

the

> sanctum sanctorum and can offer poojas by touching the dieties.

> unfortunately in south india, there are too many bias on too many

> counts. if you wish to have a free darshan of the diety, you

would

> watch the diety at a distance of 100 feet. if you pay rs.100 you

> would watch the diety at a lesser distance of 50 feet. if you pay

> rs.500 you would watch the diety clost to the diety at just 10

> feet. you pay more than rs.1000 you can go inside the sanctum

> sanctorum and sit in front of the god. nowhere in any of the most

> famous temples (ayodhya, mathura or kasi) not even one rupee is

> charged and all rich and poor will have same close darshan alike

> without any bias.

>

> seems like none of the south indian temple managers have learnt

any

> lesson from the adi sankaracharya (south indian) who found shiva

in

> a chandal in kashi and what he preached to his followers in the

> south has been falling on deaf ears.

>

> it is high time people realise the gender bias, caste bias, money

> bias and allow all humans to reach the god, FOR THE SAME GOD

DWELLS

> IN ALL HUMAN BEINGS.

>

> the reason for my writing this in this group is because all

> astrologers advocate worshipping of certain deities or visit

certain

> temple to all humans equally without any bias of caste, religion

or

> gender.

>

> with best wishes

> pandit arjun

>

> Prashantkumar G B

>

> -*- The services of this astrologer are free on

group but

> off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or phone.

> Please fix times for this in advance -*-

> 09840051861

>

> Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

>

July 1, 2006

Prashantji,

Let me make it very clear...

I never dragged and branded you as ANTI-TAMIL, i am trying to make

you see the reasoning and relevance ...i do agree that you may have

genuine grievances but that should not be allowed to interfere when

you do divination...because it is divine and when i say divine, it

concerns with mind and heart of the reader and diviner...as long as

the communication is understood by the both and then there is no

standards needed...You are trying to build standards which i am

opposing because in the process you are affecting the sentiments of

some section of people....why should you or for that matter we do

this...

I respect your seniority, experience and standing with stalwarts,

but please excuse me i dont get stopped by all this as long as i

feel what i am doing is right because all my actions are dedicated

to my divine mother srilalitha devi...it is she who taught me all

this and it is she who is directing all my responses too....no

offence intended here..

back to your points,

1. These days, you have sufficient resources to do research like

internet forums, groups and astro websites etc., one can take up the

data one wants and can concentrate .like RRji and Balaji

Narasimhan...beautiful analysis and write ups..

2. If you say that they are just indulging in glorifying tamil in

jyotish council, then it is really wrong and you can stand up for

this wrong activity and i am sure, you will come out successful.

But If you say that it is wrong to learn astrology in one's mother

language then i am sorry i am against you...

3.About Sabarimala, let us first understand the base framework and

then question all other things...i hope you will understand that...i

dont know the base principles on which the present framework has

been created and without knowing, commenting on issues is not my

way....

4.//when other faiths are paying tons of money to convert to their

faith we must not loose our own who want to come and follow some

rules not rigid ones//

i neither accept this statement nor wish to offer any comments ...it

is self defeating one....

sriganeshh

>

> > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@>

> wrote: dear

friends

> >

> > the recent sabarimala controversy due to jayamala's

confession

> to an

> > astrologer made public, has made the media busy with

portraying

> such

> > rules as gender bias.

> >

> > no god ever tells that only one religion people shall come

to me.

> > earlier in india in the same religion also lower castes were

not

> > allowed to visit temples. now in the same religion females

are

> not

> > allowed. in another temple in the south, foreigners are not

> allowed

> > even to have a darshan at a distance and all they can watch

is

> the

> > temple from outside. truly these things are spoiling the

> reputation

> > of the great vedic culture and this holy land which has been

> > treating all humans equally .

> >

> > most famous holy places are situated in the north, be it

ayodhya,

> > mathura, kashi or many jyotirlingas and shakti peethas and

in all

> > these places, all humans (including females) are allowed

inside

> the

> > sanctum sanctorum and can offer poojas by touching the

dieties.

> > unfortunately in south india, there are too many bias on too

many

> > counts. if you wish to have a free darshan of the diety, you

> would

> > watch the diety at a distance of 100 feet. if you pay rs.100

you

> > would watch the diety at a lesser distance of 50 feet. if

you pay

> > rs.500 you would watch the diety clost to the diety at just

10

> > feet. you pay more than rs.1000 you can go inside the sanctum

> > sanctorum and sit in front of the god. nowhere in any of the

most

> > famous temples (ayodhya, mathura or kasi) not even one rupee

is

> > charged and all rich and poor will have same close darshan

alike

> > without any bias.

> >

> > seems like none of the south indian temple managers have

learnt

> any

> > lesson from the adi sankaracharya (south indian) who found

shiva

> in

> > a chandal in kashi and what he preached to his followers in

the

> > south has been falling on deaf ears.

> >

> > it is high time people realise the gender bias, caste bias,

money

> > bias and allow all humans to reach the god, FOR THE SAME GOD

> DWELLS

> > IN ALL HUMAN BEINGS.

> >

> > the reason for my writing this in this group is because all

> > astrologers advocate worshipping of certain deities or visit

> certain

> > temple to all humans equally without any bias of caste,

religion

> or

> > gender.

> >

> > with best wishes

> > pandit arjun

> >

> > Prashantkumar G B

> >

> > -*- The services of this astrologer are free on

> group but

> > off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or

phone.

> > Please fix times for this in advance -*-

> > 09840051861

> >

> > Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

> >

July 1, 2006

Hi friends,

I had been going thru the series of conversations about Sabarimala. Its always strongly beleived in Kerala that kids i mean girl kids till 10 can enter Sabarimala and then only after 50,the reason behind this is already cleared by one of you.ie; the womenly issues and its striclty says people are suppose to get benefits after 40 days vrath which is not simply possible by all age of women. (b/w- 10-50)

The uniqueness of the temple is revealed only thru such specific features. Moreover ,Kerala a place where feminists raise their voice for anything and everything....have never raised their voice against this,because they also understand the theory behind this.

You can correct me if am wrong but am a person who had visited Sabarimala in my childhood for 10 times. And had seen my dad and uncles also following rules..for "Malakayattam" ..My dad is a person who has gone to Mala for may be around 50+ times..Its true that there must not be bias...but the reason is above which i mentioned. There are cultural differences in South and North.Also there are ritual differences also in temples..in the both regions..People dont wear shirt and do pooja at south India..but i have seen people wearing shirt or jubba and doing pooja..these are basically cusotm differences which are notable..but not commendable.

I guess i have not made any comments which hurts anyone. But if so..kindly forgive me and i aplogize.

Regards,

Shoba

sriganeshh <sriganeshh > wrote: