Shabda and mantra (Kavachas...Mental Chanting)

[Guest guest]

A naive -- even dumb question, puritanically speaking ---

 

In the last few hundred years that history of culture of humankind

(the growth, the care and feeding of human psyche through what we

know as society/societies has really been documented) -- how have

those helped a large number of people?

 

Religion, traditional and scriptural religion has brought nothing but

rigidity, shame and pain to humankind! Simply because most humans

were not ready for it, misinterpreted it and brought more pain to

their brothers and sisters (same genus, species, family etc

zoologically speaking, and astrologically too if one cares!) through

their overzealous misunderstanding -- sadly pumped by those in power,

just as one inflates a 'Petromax' with air (eventually getting to be

pretty 'hot') in order to get more light or more heat (yes I have

used, for what seemed long years, one of those 'pump-it-till-it-glows

kerosene chulhaas' praying all the time that the worker was paying

attention and the rather amateruishly welded seam on the contraption

does not blow up in my face -- each time I pump it to cooking

temperature!).

 

Are we humans looking for a brighter room, a well-cooked meal or

spiritual suicide, en masse?

 

How can jyotish serve us?

 

Can it save us, all??

 

 

 

, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr

wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

>

> Unfortunately, I am not an erudite scholar who can quote

scriptures. I just gather a little knowledge by listening to learned

people and reading this and that. And, I share that little knowledge

with others with great abandon. I do not want to pretend to have read

all the scriptures or to remember the source of all my knowledge.

>

> However, the four-fold division I mentioned (para, pasyanti,

madhyama and vaikhari) is supposed to be mentioned in RigVeda and

several Upanishats. One specific Upanishad I heard is "Yoga-Kundalini

Upanishad", which is a minor upanishad. Even Ganapathyatharva

Seersham (aka Ganeshopanishat) refers to the four-fold division of

sound when it says "tvam chatvaari vaak" (meaning: Ganesha, the 4

types of sound are made of you).

>

> Mother Lalita's 1000 names also extol that she takes the form of

Para, Pasyanti, Madhyama and Vaikhari sounds.

>

> My impression is that this division is a fundamental concept that

must have been mentioned in multiple places in scriptures.

Unfortunately, I cannot give specific references due to my limited

knowledge.

>

> Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

> > Dear Narasimha,

> >

> > Thank you for the illuminating information on various types of

> > vibrations related to mantra japa. If you do not mind I would

like to

> > read the scriptures that mention these four divisions of

vibrations/

> > mantras. Could you therefore point me to the relevant scripture?

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

> > >

> > > Thank you for the info.

> > >

> > > Though, obviously they are are linked, I want to distinguish

between

> > > the two divisions.

> > >

> > > The division you mentioned is about how one chants. One can

chant in

> > > one of the three styles.

> > >

> > > The division I mentioned is about various levels of vibrations

caused

> > > when we chant. Vibrations can be caused in the matter belonging

to the

> > > sthoola sareera (gross body), sookshma sareera (subtle body),

kaarana

> > > sareera (causal body) or mahaakaarana sareera (the aakasa

tattva body

> > > of the entire universe). When someone chants loud, there is

vaikhari

> > > (vibration in the matter belonging to the gross level of

existence),

> > > but it does not mean there is no madhyama (vibrations in the

matter

> > > belonging to the subtle level of existence, i.e. matter of

sookshma

> > > sareera).

> > >

> > > These four levels of body capture different levels of maya. At

the

> > > subtlest level of maya, there only is one mahaakaarana sareera

that

> > > stores all the memories, experiences and karmas of the entire

> > > universe. At a lower level of maya, there are kaarana sareeras

(causal

> > > bodies) of all the beings. At an even lower level of maya,

there are

> > > sookshma sareeras (subtle bodies) of all beings. At the

> > > lowest/grossest level of maya, there are sthoola sareeras

(gross

> > > bodies) of all beings.

> > >

> > > Chanting of any mantra in any of the three levels mentioned by

you can

> > > cause vibrations (of different intensities) in the four levels

of maya.

> > >

> > > Often, awareness of the subtlest levels of our existence

requires us

> > > to shut down the awareness of the grosser levels of our

existence.

> > > Thus, loud chanting that channels more energy into vaikhari

level of

> > > vibration and can obstruct us from awareness of other levels of

> > > existence and channeling more energy into them. However, when

an

> > > advanced Yogi or a Maharshi chants a mantra even loud, a lot of

energy

> > > may still be being channeled into the subtler levels of

vibration,

> > > along with vaikhari.

> > >

> > > When a great maharshi chants a mantra internally, with full

awareness

> > > of the mahaakaarana sareera, it can cause vibrations in the

matter

> > > belonging to the mahaakaarana sareera (which may not be

perceptible to

> > > ears) and thus impact every being in the universe. It all

depends on

> > > what kind of vibrations (and how intense) are caused.

> > >

> > > Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org>

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > > Dear Narasimha/Krishna,

> > > >

> > > > Ling Purana says " pranavasya tridha smritiH" It mentions

Vachika,

> > > > Mukhya/Manas and Upaanshu as the three types of mantra japas

that are

> > > > one greater than other in ascending order. Does the 4 fold

division

> > > > division indicated by you have anything to do with this?

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Krishna,

> > > > >

> > > > > Fantastic question and I am glad you asked!

> > > > >

> > > > > The Sanskrit word for sound is "shabda". However, the

concept of

> > > > > shabda is far more subtle than the modern definition of

sound. The

> > > > > modern definition of sound is a vibration of the gross

matter that is

> > > > > meant to be "heard" by the ears. We put too much emphasis

on the

> > > > > external senses, which can only perceive the gross matter

of this

> > > > > universe. In the Hindu philosophy, the gross matter is just

a small

> > > > > part of the universe and there is something subtle behind

everything

> > > > > gross and it cannot be perceived by the external senses.

> > > > >

> > > > > In Hindu philosophy, any shabda manifests at 4 different

levels -

> > > > > para, pashyanti, madhyama and vaikhari. Of these, para is

the

> > > subtlest

> > > > > level and vaikhari is the grossest level. The vaikhari

level of a

> > > > > shabda manifests grossly (through vibration of gross

matter) and one

> > > > > can hear it with normal sense organs (ears). The subtler

levels of a

> > > > > shabda manifest as vibration of subtler levels of matter

and they

> > > > > cannot be heard by ears.

> > > > >

> > > > > The vaikhari level of shabda is audible only for small

distances. The

> > > > > para level of a shabda I make when I say a mantra can be

perceived by

> > > > > an advanced yogi who may be thousands of miles away! Thus,

grosser

> > > > > levels are easier to hear but have space and time

limitations,

> > > whereas

> > > > > subtler levels are more difficult to hear but have no space

and time

> > > > > limitations.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you say a mantra, it is true that the result of the

mantra is

> > > > > through the shabda brahma or sound/vibration energy. But

don't be

> > > > > under the false impression that we are talking about

vibration of

> > > > > gross matter near you. That is far less significant to have

any

> > > > > considerable impact. On the other hand, at the subtlest

level, the

> > > > > entire universe is within you and you can cause vibrations

on the

> > > > > super-subtle matter of the mahakarana sareera and THAT can

have

> > > > > tremendous impact on the entire universe.

> > > > >

> > > > > The goal of a sadhaka is to create more energy at the

subtler levels

> > > > > of the shabda when saying mantras. It is not easy. But,

limiting the

> > > > > energy *wasted* on creating the vaikhari level of shabda is

a good

> > > > > starting point!

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope it is a little clearer now...

> > > > >

> > > > > Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

> > > > > Narasimha

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Narasimha,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have a basic doubt. We say that the effet of mantras

> > > > > > is caused by the vibration they generate (or due to

> > > > > > the sound energy). And yet we say that the mantras are

> > > > > > less effective when chanted lound.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why is this?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please clarify.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Krishna

>

>

>