Shabda and mantra (Kavachas...Mental Chanting)

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna,

 

Fantastic question and I am glad you asked!

 

The Sanskrit word for sound is "shabda". However, the concept of shabda is far more subtle than the modern definition of sound. The modern definition of sound is a vibration of the gross matter that is meant to be "heard" by the ears. We put too much emphasis on the external senses, which can only perceive the gross matter of this universe. In the Hindu philosophy, the gross matter is just a small part of the universe and there is something subtle behind everything gross and it cannot be perceived by the external senses.

 

In Hindu philosophy, any shabda manifests at 4 different levels - para, pashyanti, madhyama and vaikhari. Of these, para is the subtlest level and vaikhari is the grossest level. The vaikhari level of a shabda manifests grossly (through vibration of gross matter) and one can hear it with normal sense organs (ears). The subtler levels of a shabda manifest as vibration of subtler levels of matter and they cannot be heard by ears.

 

The vaikhari level of shabda is audible only for small distances. The para level of a shabda I make when I say a mantra can be perceived by an advanced yogi who may be thousands of miles away! Thus, grosser levels are easier to hear but have space and time limitations, whereas subtler levels are more difficult to hear but have no space and time limitations.

 

If you say a mantra, it is true that the result of the mantra is through the shabda brahma or sound/vibration energy. But don't be under the false impression that we are talking about vibration of gross matter near you. That is far less significant to have any considerable impact. On the other hand, at the subtlest level, the entire universe is within you and you can cause vibrations on the super-subtle matter of the mahakarana sareera and THAT can have tremendous impact on the entire universe.

 

The goal of a sadhaka is to create more energy at the subtler levels of the shabda when saying mantras. It is not easy. But, limiting the energy *wasted* on creating the vaikhari level of shabda is a good starting point!

 

I hope it is a little clearer now...

 

Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

 

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I have a basic doubt. We say that the effet of mantras

> is caused by the vibration they generate (or due to

> the sound energy). And yet we say that the mantras are

> less effective when chanted lound.

>

> Why is this?

>

> Please clarify.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> --- "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote:

>

> > Dear Hari and others,

> >

> > > Hope Narasimha Rao ji will upload and give better

> > explanation.Shri

> > > Neeraj had also expressed his views.

> >

> > Unfortunately, I cannot upload my pronunciation. In

> > our tradition, we belive that saying a mantra in

> > vaikhari (with audible sound) robs it of some power.

> > So we do not chant the mantras in which we have/want

> > some level of siddhi loud.

> >

> > I have no problem chanting ANY OTHER mantra - Vedic

> > or not - for others. But I cannot upload Gayatri

> > mantra in my voice. Sorry.

> >

> > > From the following link you can listen to Bhagawan

> > SaiBaba, reciting

> > > gayatri mantra with proper intonation.There is

> > also another audio with

> > > longer invocation.

> > >

> > > http://wahiduddin.net/mantra/gayatri.htm

> >

> > Unfortunately, none of them is correct as per

> > Rigvedic swara. The one closest is Satya Sai Baba's

> > rendering. He changed the swara quite a lot in

> > "Tatsaviturvarenyam". His intonation in the rest of

> > the mantra is almost perfect. Other renderings given

> > on the website do not come close.

> >

> > A couple of humble suggestions:

> >

> > (1) Pronunciation of visarga: In "dhiyo yo

> > na<visarga>", the visarga is pronounced by most

> > south Indians as "ha". They pronounce it as "dhiyo

> > yo naha". Visarga literally means "discharging" or

> > "letting go". The correct pronunciation of visarga

> > is to let the air go. It is closer to "dhiyo yo nah"

> > than "dhiyo yo naha". If you pronounce visarga as

> > "ha", you are adding one extra akshara (syllable)

> > and changing the chhandas.

> >

> > We are living in Kali yuga and corruptions are

> > everywhere, even in the highest mantras. No matter

> > how many learned Veda panditas say "dhiyo yo naha",

> > I am absolutely confident that it is wrong.

> >

> > (2) At the end of the mantra, "prachodayaat" comes.

> > This is pronounced by many south Indian priests as

> > "prachodayaattu" or "prachodayaatti". Instead of

> > ending with the consonant "t", they artificially add

> > an vowel to it. If you do it, you are adding an

> > akshara and changing chhandas. Probably the practice

> > was to add a vowel to the last consonant when

> > teaching, so that students can hear the consonant

> > well (if you just end with the consonant, it is not

> > clearly audible). But, when you do sadhana of a

> > mantra, pronounce a consosnant as just that and

> > don't add non-existent vowels.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Regarding mental chanting:

> >

> > Just start practicing low voice chanting first. As

> > days pass, slowly keep reducing the volume further.

> > You will finally achieve mental chanting.

> >

> > Before you sit for chanting, do pranayama if you can

> > and calm down.

> >

> > Then cross your legs (padmasana or half-lotus with

> > right leg up). Keep your back as straight as

> > possible, without making it too tense. Keep the head

> > also straight. Close your eyes.

> >

> > Then think something like this: "I am not this body.

> > This body is transient, but I am not. I am Atman,

> > that is never born and never dies. I am the Atman

> > that fills the entire universe. I am the Atman that

> > takes the form of Sri Maha Lakshmi (or your ishta

> > devata) and fills the entire universe. I just want

> > to be Atman and nothing else."

> >

> > After thinking of such things for a while, start

> > chanting mentally (or in low voice to start with)

> > with the mind focussed on the sound of the mantra or

> > on the breathing or on a mentally imagined form of

> > your ishta devata. Still, your mind will wander here

> > and there (that is its nature). Don't worry about it

> > and, whenever you see your mind somewhere else, just

> > calmly bring it back to the focus point (without any

> > regret or panic or worry, but with calmness).

> >

> > If you feel any physical uneasiness or any impatient

> > thought (e.g. "how many more beads are remaining

> > probably? Am I close to being done?"), try to ignore

> > the uneasiness and those thoughts. Tell yourself

> > something like "I am not this body. I do not have

> > anything to do. There is no time for me. I am Atman

> > and the only thing that I exist to do is to do this

> > mantra. Let me just get lost in this mantra" and

> > focus on the mantra.

> >

> > Like anything in life, practice makes one perfect.

> > Keep practicing. If your intonation is imperfect,

> > don't worry. Keep practicing and try to make it more

> > perfect as times goes on.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > A couple of words of caution:

> >

> > (1) If you are not used to sitting cross-legged,

> > don't strain yourself and sit comfortably in the

> > beginning. While you are not the body, body is an

> > instrument you use in sadhana. There is no need to

> > hurt it carelessly.

> >

> > (2) If a few malas of Gayatri mantra are done

> > everyday intensively, with the correct intonation,

> > you can expect your Pingala nadi to be opened like

> > anything and a lot of heat generated. You may feel

> > heat in various parts of the body. It is normal and

> > don't worry. The fire generated by the mantra can

> > burn toxins and weaknesses that accumulated in the

> > sookshma sareera due to years of corrupt lifestyle.

> >

> > (3) Eventually, even Sushumna nadi can open,

> > Kundalini can awaken and various nadis of the

> > sookshma sareera can be cleaned up. Gayatri mantra

> > does have that power. At that stage, you may need a

> > sadguru to guide you. If a sadguru is destined to

> > guide you, he/she may come and find you! Otherwise,

> > resort to the path of complete submission to your

> > ishta devata and leave everything to Him/Her. The

> > deity can do the work of a sadguru then.

> >

> > Just note that you may be guided by a guru even

> > without ever meeting one. A true sadguru does not

> > need to meet you or communicate with you verbally to

> > guide you! If you submit fully to your ishta devata,

> > have respect for maharshis and do sadhana of Gayatri

> > mantra perfectly, I am sure you will be guided by a

> > sadguru even if it may not seem so.

> >

> > In old days, Gayatri mantra was the first mantra

> > taught to a young disciple and one was expected to

> > read a few lakhs (preferably 2.4 million times). It

> > does nadi sodhana and cleans up all nadis and gives

> > self-realization. No wonder so many people were so

> > spiritually advanced in old times. We are living in

> > a deepening Kali yuga and even those who are taught

> > this important mantra are ignoring it or doing it

> > only a handful of times a day.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > > Dear PVR,

> > >

> > > From your quote below, 1st/9th lords are

> > protectors of health while 6/8th lords are spoilers.

> > What if 6th/9th lords are same ( jupiter for cancer

> > lagna?, mercury for capricon lagna?) or 1st/8th

> > lords are same ( Mars for Aries lagna?) 1st/6th

> > lord ( venus for taurus lagna?)? 8/9th lord (saturn

> > for gemini lagna?)

> > >

> > > Does the effect become neutral? or the malefic

> > nature dominates?

> > >

> > > thanks in advance,

> > > SK

> >

> > In general, reading the kavacha of any planet only

> > protects the native and never harms. How fast and

> > how much protection is given depends on the agenda

> > of the planet in the chart. To decide the nature of

> > a planet, you can use the standard rules. Yes, if a

> > planet owns 6th and 9th, it is neutral. But one

> > indication may dominate and it depends on so many

> > factors and I cannot give a thumbrule.

> >

> > Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

> > Narasimha

[Guest guest]

what a wonderful thread this is becoming.

i am freely quoting from the Lalitha Sahasranamam especially

HER names from 366 to 371 in this context.

"paraa pratyak-chiti-rupa pashyanti para-devata madyamaa vaikhari-rupa ...."

ultimate. SHE is the ultimate form of vaagdevi. shabda-brahman or vaak has four forms, the grossest being the one when you speak out the letters. this is vaikharishabda. the next in the order of subtlety is madhyama, where letters are whispered without sound. still subtler is pashyanti where the larynx or the voice box is not active but the letters are pronounced mentally. the paraa vaak is the will which creates the three previous forms of shabda which is therefore the cause of all shabda. it also implies, that since all shabda denotes names, paraa, is the avyakta or the un-differentiated power that creates all names, which is the Goddess herself!

seeking HER blessings

mahalakshmi

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Krishna,

 

Fantastic question and I am glad you asked!

 

The Sanskrit word for sound is "shabda". However, the concept of shabda is far more subtle than the modern definition of sound. The modern definition of sound is a vibration of the gross matter that is meant to be "heard" by the ears. We put too much emphasis on the external senses, which can only perceive the gross matter of this universe. In the Hindu philosophy, the gross matter is just a small part of the universe and there is something subtle behind everything gross and it cannot be perceived by the external senses.

 

In Hindu philosophy, any shabda manifests at 4 different levels - para, pashyanti, madhyama and vaikhari. Of these, para is the subtlest level and vaikhari is the grossest level. The vaikhari level of a shabda manifests grossly (through vibration of gross matter) and one can hear it with normal sense organs (ears). The subtler levels of a shabda manifest as vibration of subtler levels of matter and they cannot be heard by ears.

 

The vaikhari level of shabda is audible only for small distances. The para level of a shabda I make when I say a mantra can be perceived by an advanced yogi who may be thousands of miles away! Thus, grosser levels are easier to hear but have space and time limitations, whereas subtler levels are more difficult to hear but have no space and time limitations.

 

If you say a mantra, it is true that the result of the mantra is through the shabda brahma or sound/vibration energy. But don't be under the false impression that we are talking about vibration of gross matter near you. That is far less significant to have any considerable impact. On the other hand, at the subtlest level, the entire universe is within you and you can cause vibrations on the super-subtle matter of the mahakarana sareera and THAT can have tremendous impact on the entire universe.

 

The goal of a sadhaka is to create more energy at the subtler levels of the shabda when saying mantras. It is not easy. But, limiting the energy *wasted* on creating the vaikhari level of shabda is a good starting point!

 

I hope it is a little clearer now...

 

Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

-------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------

 

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I have a basic doubt. We say that the effet of mantras

> is caused by the vibration they generate (or due to

> the sound energy). And yet we say that the mantras are

> less effective when chanted lound.

>

> Why is this?

>

> Please clarify.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> --- "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote:

>

> > Dear Hari and others,

> >

> > > Hope Narasimha Rao ji will upload and give better

> > explanation.Shri

> > > Neeraj had also expressed his views.

> >

> > Unfortunately, I cannot upload my pronunciation. In

> > our tradition, we belive that saying a mantra in

> > vaikhari (with audible sound) robs it of some power.

> > So we do not chant the mantras in which we have/want

> > some level of siddhi loud.

> >

> > I have no problem chanting ANY OTHER mantra - Vedic

> > or not - for others. But I cannot upload Gayatri

> > mantra in my voice. Sorry.

> >

> > > From the following link you can listen to Bhagawan

> > SaiBaba, reciting

> > > gayatri mantra with proper intonation.There is

> > also another audio with

> > > longer invocation.

> > >

> > > http://wahiduddin.net/mantra/gayatri.htm

> >

> > Unfortunately, none of them is correct as per

> > Rigvedic swara. The one closest is Satya Sai Baba's

> > rendering. He changed the swara quite a lot in

> > "Tatsaviturvarenyam". His intonation in the rest of

> > the mantra is almost perfect. Other renderings given

> > on the website do not come close.

> >

> > A couple of humble suggestions:

> >

> > (1) Pronunciation of visarga: In "dhiyo yo

> > na<visarga>", the visarga is pronounced by most

> > south Indians as "ha". They pronounce it as "dhiyo

> > yo naha". Visarga literally means "discharging" or

> > "letting go". The correct pronunciation of visarga

> > is to let the air go. It is closer to "dhiyo yo nah"

> > than "dhiyo yo naha". If you pronounce visarga as

> > "ha", you are adding one extra akshara (syllable)

> > and changing the chhandas.

> >

> > We are living in Kali yuga and corruptions are

> > everywhere, even in the highest mantras. No matter

> > how many learned Veda panditas say "dhiyo yo naha",

> > I am absolutely confident that it is wrong.

> >

> > (2) At the end of the mantra, "prachodayaat" comes.

> > This is pronounced by many south Indian priests as

> > "prachodayaattu" or "prachodayaatti". Instead of

> > ending with the consonant "t", they artificially add

> > an vowel to it. If you do it, you are adding an

> > akshara and changing chhandas. Probably the practice

> > was to add a vowel to the last consonant when

> > teaching, so that students can hear the consonant

> > well (if you just end with the consonant, it is not

> > clearly audible). But, when you do sadhana of a

> > mantra, pronounce a consosnant as just that and

> > don't add non-existent vowels.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Regarding mental chanting:

> >

> > Just start practicing low voice chanting first. As

> > days pass, slowly keep reducing the volume further.

> > You will finally achieve mental chanting.

> >

> > Before you sit for chanting, do pranayama if you can

> > and calm down.

> >

> > Then cross your legs (padmasana or half-lotus with

> > right leg up). Keep your back as straight as

> > possible, without making it too tense. Keep the head

> > also straight. Close your eyes.

> >

> > Then think something like this: "I am not this body.

> > This body is transient, but I am not. I am Atman,

> > that is never born and never dies. I am the Atman

> > that fills the entire universe. I am the Atman that

> > takes the form of Sri Maha Lakshmi (or your ishta

> > devata) and fills the entire universe. I just want

> > to be Atman and nothing else."

> >

> > After thinking of such things for a while, start

> > chanting mentally (or in low voice to start with)

> > with the mind focussed on the sound of the mantra or

> > on the breathing or on a mentally imagined form of

> > your ishta devata. Still, your mind will wander here

> > and there (that is its nature). Don't worry about it

> > and, whenever you see your mind somewhere else, just

> > calmly bring it back to the focus point (without any

> > regret or panic or worry, but with calmness).

> >

> > If you feel any physical uneasiness or any impatient

> > thought (e.g. "how many more beads are remaining

> > probably? Am I close to being done?"), try to ignore

> > the uneasiness and those thoughts. Tell yourself

> > something like "I am not this body. I do not have

> > anything to do. There is no time for me. I am Atman

> > and the only thing that I exist to do is to do this

> > mantra. Let me just get lost in this mantra" and

> > focus on the mantra.

> >

> > Like anything in life, practice makes one perfect.

> > Keep practicing. If your intonation is imperfect,

> > don't worry. Keep practicing and try to make it more

> > perfect as times goes on.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > A couple of words of caution:

> >

> > (1) If you are not used to sitting cross-legged,

> > don't strain yourself and sit comfortably in the

> > beginning. While you are not the body, body is an

> > instrument you use in sadhana. There is no need to

> > hurt it carelessly.

> >

> > (2) If a few malas of Gayatri mantra are done

> > everyday intensively, with the correct intonation,

> > you can expect your Pingala nadi to be opened like

> > anything and a lot of heat generated. You may feel

> > heat in various parts of the body. It is normal and

> > don't worry. The fire generated by the mantra can

> > burn toxins and weaknesses that accumulated in the

> > sookshma sareera due to years of corrupt lifestyle.

> >

> > (3) Eventually, even Sushumna nadi can open,

> > Kundalini can awaken and various nadis of the

> > sookshma sareera can be cleaned up. Gayatri mantra

> > does have that power. At that stage, you may need a

> > sadguru to guide you. If a sadguru is destined to

> > guide you, he/she may come and find you! Otherwise,

> > resort to the path of complete submission to your

> > ishta devata and leave everything to Him/Her. The

> > deity can do the work of a sadguru then.

> >

> > Just note that you may be guided by a guru even

> > without ever meeting one. A true sadguru does not

> > need to meet you or communicate with you verbally to

> > guide you! If you submit fully to your ishta devata,

> > have respect for maharshis and do sadhana of Gayatri

> > mantra perfectly, I am sure you will be guided by a

> > sadguru even if it may not seem so.

> >

> > In old days, Gayatri mantra was the first mantra

> > taught to a young disciple and one was expected to

> > read a few lakhs (preferably 2.4 million times). It

> > does nadi sodhana and cleans up all nadis and gives

> > self-realization. No wonder so many people were so

> > spiritually advanced in old times. We are living in

> > a deepening Kali yuga and even those who are taught

> > this important mantra are ignoring it or doing it

> > only a handful of times a day.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > > Dear PVR,

> > >

> > > From your quote below, 1st/9th lords are

> > protectors of health while 6/8th lords are spoilers.

> > What if 6th/9th lords are same ( jupiter for cancer

> > lagna?, mercury for capricon lagna?) or 1st/8th

> > lords are same ( Mars for Aries lagna?) 1st/6th

> > lord ( venus for taurus lagna?)? 8/9th lord (saturn

> > for gemini lagna?)

> > >

> > > Does the effect become neutral? or the malefic

> > nature dominates?

> > >

> > > thanks in advance,

> > > SK

> >

> > In general, reading the kavacha of any planet only

> > protects the native and never harms. How fast and

> > how much protection is given depends on the agenda

> > of the planet in the chart. To decide the nature of

> > a planet, you can use the standard rules. Yes, if a

> > planet owns 6th and 9th, it is neutral. But one

> > indication may dominate and it depends on so many

> > factors and I cannot give a thumbrule.

> >

> > Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

> > Narasimha