Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Dear Robert, > It is questionable whether Moksa can be > attained even from the Satya-loka, what then to speak of lower planes > such as earth. You are implying that all souls on earth have inferior karma to souls in Satyaloka. Do you think it is not possible that a soul that was in Satyaloka or Tapoloka returns to earth for a specific work, even though its karma entitles it to stay in that higher loka for more time? Maharshi Vasishtha described the stories of beings who got moksha while living in Paataala. Paataala is a further lower plane than earth. He also described several stories to Rama in which people living on earth became jeevanmuktas and finally got moksha. Thus, I cannot agree that souls living in mrityuloka right now have no chance of getting moksha. Just wanted to make these observations. I will leave the rest of your mail without comments for now. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- sohamsa, Robert Koch <rk wrote: > > Dear Lakshmi, > > Hare Krsna - > > It is quite debatable whether Deities other than those belonging to > Vishnu-Tattva can grant Moksa, but that discussion is for another > time. The point I wanted to make in response to your post is that we > do not know for sure if someone has attained Moksa, but get > suggestions of it from the horoscope. For example, in the study of > Punya Chakras, as in Chapter Four of my book, persons dying at a time > when Jupiter aspects the 8th house, and when strong benefics > indicating ascension to higher lokas are in the 12th house, we can > know for sure that the Atma went to the higher lokas, but we do not > know if Moksa was attained. It is questionable whether Moksa can be > attained even from the Satya-loka, what then to speak of lower planes > such as earth. > > Sanjay has been very clear on this point. Moksa is the domain of > God, and is attained only by a few rare souls who have received > Divine blessings. It is not something we can calculate and know for > sure by way of horoscopic analysis, although the Shastras state that > leaving the body in a holy place like Vrndavana or Hrishikesh while > uttering the Holy name of God is about as good as it gets so far as > one's chances for Moksa after death are concerned. Anyway, there is > a point where all of astrology in general fails, and that is where > Divine Will steps in an alters the course of destiny. Jaimini speaks > of Ketu + benefics influencing the 12th from Karakamsa lagna also as > giving the possibility of Moksa, but then again this rare achievement > is still not known for sure. It is thus an intellectual exercise > only as to who attains Moksa and who does not, but still it is an > interesting topic of discussion in Jyotish. > > Best wishes, > Robert > > At 09:52 AM 6/11/2006, you wrote: > >Hare Krishna > >Dear Narsimha, > >Pranams. > >You said "" For example, if you worship Ganesha with Atharva > >Seersham and understand the meaning, you will see that he is lauded > >as the one from whom the whole universe originates, in whom the > >whole universe is stationed and into whom the whole universe merges > >at the time of Destruction, the one who also takes the forms of > >Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Indra, Agni etc etc. Only if you imagine such > >a higher aakaasa tattva form of Ganesha that is close to > >formlessness can Ganesha give you moksha. > > > >Similarly, with all higher deities who are muktas even as they exist > >in a form, you can worship the lower form for specific limited > >results or worship the higher forms that are close to formlessness > >and get moksha from them."" > > > > Im asking ..Can you please show me the chart of someone that was > >liberated by Ganesh? Or Sri Lakshmi? > >and also how do you know for sure they were "liberated"can you show > >me in their chart, that they worshipped Ganesh and were liberated.? > >What do you mean by "liberated", from what , and from where? > >thank-you, > >Lakshmi > > > > > >sohamsa, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > >wrote: > > > > > > Dear "Anuj" of Rama, :-) > > > > > > > "As what you wear is recognized as Ma, and what you desire is > >also > > > > recognized as Ma" > > > > > > > > Wear=Fear in the above sentence. > > > > > > > > Please pardon the typos. Too many in one email. > > > > > > Yaar, sometimes profound statements come out of even mistakes made > >by learned people! > > > > > > At the core, we are just Brahman, the Atman. We "wear" many layers > >of conditioning that make us who we are now (or "aren't" really, > >depending on your perspective). All those layers of conditioning are > >indeed part of Ma. It is Ma who covers us with all those layers of > >conditioning (and hence it is Ma who can be the key to unravelling > >them). > > > > > > Thus, your typo is IMHO a very profound statement! > > > > > > > > Ma Kali is therefore, not Tamas and Ma is not afflicted by > >Gunas. She has > > > > > lordship over them, being the Prakriti herself. > > > > > > Yes, She is the Prakriti Herself. Though Lakshmi, Saraswati and > >Kaali are all Prakriti only, they have lordship over different gunas > >within the Prakriti. > > > > > > However, it is correct that She is "not affected by Gunas". I > >completely agree with you. I now understand why some people were > >upset when I associated Kaali with tamas! Thanks for your mail. > > > > > > What you said above is true of most heigher deities. They are > >personifications of various guna combinations, but not affected by > >gunas. They are all muktas (already liberated). Being muktas, they > >are untouched by the gunas of the specific form they occupy. They do > >the work of the form they occupy, with the most perfect realization > >that they are the formless Brahman. Thus, the form they occupy has > >gunas but they are untouched by them. They exist in a form like that > >for a specific time and then they get moksha, i.e. their form merges > >with the formless Brahman. > > > > > > For example, Maharshi Vasishtha described the time periods of > >Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. During the lifetime of one Vishnu, so many > >Brahmas come, do their job and get moksha (don't confuse this > >creator Brahma with formless Brahman). Similarly, during the > >lifetime of one Shiva, so many Vishnus come, do their job and get > >moksha. That is what Vasishtha taught Sri Ramachandra. > > > > > > All these heigher deities have long time periods to spend in a > >form and do so as muktas who are untouched by the gunas of the form > >they occupy. > > > > > > All these heigher deities who are muktas while existing in a form > >have the ability to operate at the low level and grant low level > >wishes or operate close to formlessness and give moksha. > > > > > > For example, Sanjay keeps on writing about the 12th house, Pisces > >and aakaasa tattva link to argue that only Vishnu gives moksha. But > >what the 12th house, Pisces and aakaasa tattva links suggests is > >that any deity who gives moksha is of aakaasa tattva and is close to > >formlessness. > > > > > > By worshipping Shiva as merely the giver of marriage (as Souvik > >wrote) or by worshipping Ganesha as merely the remover of obstacles > >or Mahaalakshmi as merely the giver of wealth or Mahaasaraswati as > >merely the giver of knowledge or Mahaakaali as merely the giver of > >victory in battles (as Sanjay wrote), you are merely worshipping a > >low level form of the deity and can only get limited results. But, > >as you worship them and get close to them, you may start realizing > >the unlimited nature of those deities. > > > > > > For example, if you worship Ganesha with Atharva Seersham and > >understand the meaning, you will see that he is lauded as the one > >from whom the whole universe originates, in whom the whole universe > >is stationed and into whom the whole universe merges at the time of > >Destruction, the one who also takes the forms of Brahma, Vishnu, > >Rudra, Indra, Agni etc etc. Only if you imagine such a higher > >aakaasa tattva form of Ganesha that is close to formlessness can > >Ganesha give you moksha. > > > > > > Similarly, with all higher deities who are muktas even as they > >exist in a form, you can worship the lower form for specific limited > >results or worship the higher forms that are close to formlessness > >and get moksha from them. > > > > > > Enough for today.. > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Narasimha, It is a documented fact that the human population in the world has been steadily growing, at alarming pace. Way more than, perhaps, to account for vanishing species! If one takes the simple belief that a soul generally gets incarnated only as one human being, and not allowing for transmigration of souls between species, one can only deduce: a) That your explanation makes sense and souls from satyaloka are being sent down to 'clean' up the place -- kind of like sending additional teachers to some of the difficult area schools. OR b) There is something funny going on in Satyaloka and hoards of the mischief makers from satya loka are being banished to boot camp (also known as mrityuloka)! OR c) more animals are being promoted to human lives, and sometimes one wonders if that indeed is what is going on, following empirical testing! Of course then people come up with all these group soul hypotheses which crunches the available numbers even more ... very confusing! Rohiniranjan , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Robert, > > > It is questionable whether Moksa can be > > attained even from the Satya-loka, what then to speak of lower planes > > such as earth. > > You are implying that all souls on earth have inferior karma to souls in Satyaloka. Do you think it is not possible that a soul that was in Satyaloka or Tapoloka returns to earth for a specific work, even though its karma entitles it to stay in that higher loka for more time? > > Maharshi Vasishtha described the stories of beings who got moksha while living in Paataala. Paataala is a further lower plane than earth. He also described several stories to Rama in which people living on earth became jeevanmuktas and finally got moksha. Thus, I cannot agree that souls living in mrityuloka right now have no chance of getting moksha. > > Just wanted to make these observations. I will leave the rest of your mail without comments for now. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > sohamsa, Robert Koch <rk@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmi, > > > > Hare Krsna - > > > > It is quite debatable whether Deities other than those belonging to > > Vishnu-Tattva can grant Moksa, but that discussion is for another > > time. The point I wanted to make in response to your post is that we > > do not know for sure if someone has attained Moksa, but get > > suggestions of it from the horoscope. For example, in the study of > > Punya Chakras, as in Chapter Four of my book, persons dying at a time > > when Jupiter aspects the 8th house, and when strong benefics > > indicating ascension to higher lokas are in the 12th house, we can > > know for sure that the Atma went to the higher lokas, but we do not > > know if Moksa was attained. It is questionable whether Moksa can be > > attained even from the Satya-loka, what then to speak of lower planes > > such as earth. > > > > Sanjay has been very clear on this point. Moksa is the domain of > > God, and is attained only by a few rare souls who have received > > Divine blessings. It is not something we can calculate and know for > > sure by way of horoscopic analysis, although the Shastras state that > > leaving the body in a holy place like Vrndavana or Hrishikesh while > > uttering the Holy name of God is about as good as it gets so far as > > one's chances for Moksa after death are concerned. Anyway, there is > > a point where all of astrology in general fails, and that is where > > Divine Will steps in an alters the course of destiny. Jaimini speaks > > of Ketu + benefics influencing the 12th from Karakamsa lagna also as > > giving the possibility of Moksa, but then again this rare achievement > > is still not known for sure. It is thus an intellectual exercise > > only as to who attains Moksa and who does not, but still it is an > > interesting topic of discussion in Jyotish. > > > > Best wishes, > > Robert > > > > At 09:52 AM 6/11/2006, you wrote: > > >Hare Krishna > > >Dear Narsimha, > > >Pranams. > > >You said "" For example, if you worship Ganesha with Atharva > > >Seersham and understand the meaning, you will see that he is lauded > > >as the one from whom the whole universe originates, in whom the > > >whole universe is stationed and into whom the whole universe merges > > >at the time of Destruction, the one who also takes the forms of > > >Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Indra, Agni etc etc. Only if you imagine such > > >a higher aakaasa tattva form of Ganesha that is close to > > >formlessness can Ganesha give you moksha. > > > > > >Similarly, with all higher deities who are muktas even as they exist > > >in a form, you can worship the lower form for specific limited > > >results or worship the higher forms that are close to formlessness > > >and get moksha from them."" > > > > > > Im asking ..Can you please show me the chart of someone that was > > >liberated by Ganesh? Or Sri Lakshmi? > > >and also how do you know for sure they were "liberated"can you show > > >me in their chart, that they worshipped Ganesh and were liberated.? > > >What do you mean by "liberated", from what , and from where? > > >thank-you, > > >Lakshmi > > > > > > > > >sohamsa, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear "Anuj" of Rama, :-) > > > > > > > > > "As what you wear is recognized as Ma, and what you desire is > > >also > > > > > recognized as Ma" > > > > > > > > > > Wear=Fear in the above sentence. > > > > > > > > > > Please pardon the typos. Too many in one email. > > > > > > > > Yaar, sometimes profound statements come out of even mistakes made > > >by learned people! > > > > > > > > At the core, we are just Brahman, the Atman. We "wear" many layers > > >of conditioning that make us who we are now (or "aren't" really, > > >depending on your perspective). All those layers of conditioning are > > >indeed part of Ma. It is Ma who covers us with all those layers of > > >conditioning (and hence it is Ma who can be the key to unravelling > > >them). > > > > > > > > Thus, your typo is IMHO a very profound statement! > > > > > > > > > > Ma Kali is therefore, not Tamas and Ma is not afflicted by > > >Gunas. She has > > > > > > lordship over them, being the Prakriti herself. > > > > > > > > Yes, She is the Prakriti Herself. Though Lakshmi, Saraswati and > > >Kaali are all Prakriti only, they have lordship over different gunas > > >within the Prakriti. > > > > > > > > However, it is correct that She is "not affected by Gunas". I > > >completely agree with you. I now understand why some people were > > >upset when I associated Kaali with tamas! Thanks for your mail. > > > > > > > > What you said above is true of most heigher deities. They are > > >personifications of various guna combinations, but not affected by > > >gunas. They are all muktas (already liberated). Being muktas, they > > >are untouched by the gunas of the specific form they occupy. They do > > >the work of the form they occupy, with the most perfect realization > > >that they are the formless Brahman. Thus, the form they occupy has > > >gunas but they are untouched by them. They exist in a form like that > > >for a specific time and then they get moksha, i.e. their form merges > > >with the formless Brahman. > > > > > > > > For example, Maharshi Vasishtha described the time periods of > > >Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. During the lifetime of one Vishnu, so many > > >Brahmas come, do their job and get moksha (don't confuse this > > >creator Brahma with formless Brahman). Similarly, during the > > >lifetime of one Shiva, so many Vishnus come, do their job and get > > >moksha. That is what Vasishtha taught Sri Ramachandra. > > > > > > > > All these heigher deities have long time periods to spend in a > > >form and do so as muktas who are untouched by the gunas of the form > > >they occupy. > > > > > > > > All these heigher deities who are muktas while existing in a form > > >have the ability to operate at the low level and grant low level > > >wishes or operate close to formlessness and give moksha. > > > > > > > > For example, Sanjay keeps on writing about the 12th house, Pisces > > >and aakaasa tattva link to argue that only Vishnu gives moksha. But > > >what the 12th house, Pisces and aakaasa tattva links suggests is > > >that any deity who gives moksha is of aakaasa tattva and is close to > > >formlessness. > > > > > > > > By worshipping Shiva as merely the giver of marriage (as Souvik > > >wrote) or by worshipping Ganesha as merely the remover of obstacles > > >or Mahaalakshmi as merely the giver of wealth or Mahaasaraswati as > > >merely the giver of knowledge or Mahaakaali as merely the giver of > > >victory in battles (as Sanjay wrote), you are merely worshipping a > > >low level form of the deity and can only get limited results. But, > > >as you worship them and get close to them, you may start realizing > > >the unlimited nature of those deities. > > > > > > > > For example, if you worship Ganesha with Atharva Seersham and > > >understand the meaning, you will see that he is lauded as the one > > >from whom the whole universe originates, in whom the whole universe > > >is stationed and into whom the whole universe merges at the time of > > >Destruction, the one who also takes the forms of Brahma, Vishnu, > > >Rudra, Indra, Agni etc etc. Only if you imagine such a higher > > >aakaasa tattva form of Ganesha that is close to formlessness can > > >Ganesha give you moksha. > > > > > > > > Similarly, with all higher deities who are muktas even as they > > >exist in a form, you can worship the lower form for specific limited > > >results or worship the higher forms that are close to formlessness > > >and get moksha from them. > > > > > > > > Enough for today.. > > > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ----------------------------- -- > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > ----------------------------- -- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji In Jainism, it is believed that - total count (all loka) remains same. If the population is increasing in manushya yoni; then in some other yoni, it must be declining. regards / Prafulla Gang In the long history of humankind (and animalkind, too) those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed. > > clarity2020 > Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:57:50 -0000 > > Re: Moksa in the horoscope? > > Narasimha, > > It is a documented fact that the human population in the world has > been steadily growing, at alarming pace. Way more than, perhaps, to > account for vanishing species! > > If one takes the simple belief that a soul generally gets incarnated > only as one human being, and not allowing for transmigration of souls > between species, one can only deduce: > > a) That your explanation makes sense and souls from satyaloka are > being sent down to 'clean' up the place -- kind of like sending > additional teachers to some of the difficult area schools. > > OR > > b) There is something funny going on in Satyaloka and hoards of the > mischief makers from satya loka are being banished to boot camp (also > known as mrityuloka)! > > OR > > c) more animals are being promoted to human lives, and sometimes one > wonders if that indeed is what is going on, following empirical > testing! > > > Of course then people come up with all these group soul hypotheses > which crunches the available numbers even more ... very confusing! > > Rohiniranjan > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr > wrote: >> >> Dear Robert, >> >>> It is questionable whether Moksa can be >>> attained even from the Satya-loka, what then to speak of lower > planes >>> such as earth. >> >> You are implying that all souls on earth have inferior karma to > souls in Satyaloka. Do you think it is not possible that a soul that > was in Satyaloka or Tapoloka returns to earth for a specific work, > even though its karma entitles it to stay in that higher loka for > more time? >> >> Maharshi Vasishtha described the stories of beings who got moksha > while living in Paataala. Paataala is a further lower plane than > earth. He also described several stories to Rama in which people > living on earth became jeevanmuktas and finally got moksha. Thus, I > cannot agree that souls living in mrityuloka right now have no chance > of getting moksha. >> >> Just wanted to make these observations. I will leave the rest of > your mail without comments for now. >> >> May the light of Brahman shine within, >> Narasimha >> ------------------------------- >> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net >> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org >> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org >> ------------------------------- >> >> sohamsa, Robert Koch <rk@> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Lakshmi, >>> >>> Hare Krsna - >>> >>> It is quite debatable whether Deities other than those belonging > to >>> Vishnu-Tattva can grant Moksa, but that discussion is for another >>> time. The point I wanted to make in response to your post is > that we >>> do not know for sure if someone has attained Moksa, but get >>> suggestions of it from the horoscope. For example, in the study > of >>> Punya Chakras, as in Chapter Four of my book, persons dying at a > time >>> when Jupiter aspects the 8th house, and when strong benefics >>> indicating ascension to higher lokas are in the 12th house, we > can >>> know for sure that the Atma went to the higher lokas, but we do > not >>> know if Moksa was attained. It is questionable whether Moksa > can be >>> attained even from the Satya-loka, what then to speak of lower > planes >>> such as earth. >>> >>> Sanjay has been very clear on this point. Moksa is the domain of >>> God, and is attained only by a few rare souls who have received >>> Divine blessings. It is not something we can calculate and know > for >>> sure by way of horoscopic analysis, although the Shastras state > that >>> leaving the body in a holy place like Vrndavana or Hrishikesh > while >>> uttering the Holy name of God is about as good as it gets so far > as >>> one's chances for Moksa after death are concerned. Anyway, there > is >>> a point where all of astrology in general fails, and that is > where >>> Divine Will steps in an alters the course of destiny. Jaimini > speaks >>> of Ketu + benefics influencing the 12th from Karakamsa lagna also > as >>> giving the possibility of Moksa, but then again this rare > achievement >>> is still not known for sure. It is thus an intellectual exercise >>> only as to who attains Moksa and who does not, but still it is an >>> interesting topic of discussion in Jyotish. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Robert >>> >>> At 09:52 AM 6/11/2006, you wrote: >>> >Hare Krishna >>> >Dear Narsimha, >>> >Pranams. >>> >You said "" For example, if you worship Ganesha with Atharva >>> >Seersham and understand the meaning, you will see that he is > lauded >>> >as the one from whom the whole universe originates, in whom the >>> >whole universe is stationed and into whom the whole universe > merges >>> >at the time of Destruction, the one who also takes the forms of >>> >Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Indra, Agni etc etc. Only if you imagine > such >>> >a higher aakaasa tattva form of Ganesha that is close to >>> >formlessness can Ganesha give you moksha. >>>> >>> >Similarly, with all higher deities who are muktas even as they > exist >>> >in a form, you can worship the lower form for specific limited >>> >results or worship the higher forms that are close to > formlessness >>> >and get moksha from them."" >>>> >>>> Im asking ..Can you please show me the chart of someone that > was >>> >liberated by Ganesh? Or Sri Lakshmi? >>> >and also how do you know for sure they were "liberated"can you > show >>> >me in their chart, that they worshipped Ganesh and were > liberated.? >>> >What do you mean by "liberated", from what , and from where? >>> >thank-you, >>> >Lakshmi >>>> >>>> >>> >sohamsa, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> >>> >wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear "Anuj" of Rama, :-) >>>>> >>>>>> "As what you wear is recognized as Ma, and what you desire > is >>> >also >>>>>> recognized as Ma" >>>>>> >>>>>> Wear=Fear in the above sentence. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please pardon the typos. Too many in one email. >>>>> >>>>> Yaar, sometimes profound statements come out of even mistakes > made >>> >by learned people! >>>>> >>>>> At the core, we are just Brahman, the Atman. We "wear" many > layers >>> >of conditioning that make us who we are now (or "aren't" really, >>> >depending on your perspective). All those layers of conditioning > are >>> >indeed part of Ma. It is Ma who covers us with all those layers > of >>> >conditioning (and hence it is Ma who can be the key to > unravelling >>> >them). >>>>> >>>>> Thus, your typo is IMHO a very profound statement! >>>>> >>>>>>> Ma Kali is therefore, not Tamas and Ma is not afflicted by >>> >Gunas. She has >>>>>>> lordship over them, being the Prakriti herself. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, She is the Prakriti Herself. Though Lakshmi, Saraswati > and >>> >Kaali are all Prakriti only, they have lordship over different > gunas >>> >within the Prakriti. >>>>> >>>>> However, it is correct that She is "not affected by Gunas". I >>> >completely agree with you. I now understand why some people were >>> >upset when I associated Kaali with tamas! Thanks for your mail. >>>>> >>>>> What you said above is true of most heigher deities. They are >>> >personifications of various guna combinations, but not affected > by >>> >gunas. They are all muktas (already liberated). Being muktas, > they >>> >are untouched by the gunas of the specific form they occupy. > They do >>> >the work of the form they occupy, with the most perfect > realization >>> >that they are the formless Brahman. Thus, the form they occupy > has >>> >gunas but they are untouched by them. They exist in a form like > that >>> >for a specific time and then they get moksha, i.e. their form > merges >>> >with the formless Brahman. >>>>> >>>>> For example, Maharshi Vasishtha described the time periods of >>> >Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. During the lifetime of one Vishnu, so > many >>> >Brahmas come, do their job and get moksha (don't confuse this >>> >creator Brahma with formless Brahman). Similarly, during the >>> >lifetime of one Shiva, so many Vishnus come, do their job and get >>> >moksha. That is what Vasishtha taught Sri Ramachandra. >>>>> >>>>> All these heigher deities have long time periods to spend in a >>> >form and do so as muktas who are untouched by the gunas of the > form >>> >they occupy. >>>>> >>>>> All these heigher deities who are muktas while existing in a > form >>> >have the ability to operate at the low level and grant low level >>> >wishes or operate close to formlessness and give moksha. >>>>> >>>>> For example, Sanjay keeps on writing about the 12th house, > Pisces >>> >and aakaasa tattva link to argue that only Vishnu gives moksha. > But >>> >what the 12th house, Pisces and aakaasa tattva links suggests is >>> >that any deity who gives moksha is of aakaasa tattva and is > close to >>> >formlessness. >>>>> >>>>> By worshipping Shiva as merely the giver of marriage (as > Souvik >>> >wrote) or by worshipping Ganesha as merely the remover of > obstacles >>> >or Mahaalakshmi as merely the giver of wealth or Mahaasaraswati > as >>> >merely the giver of knowledge or Mahaakaali as merely the giver > of >>> >victory in battles (as Sanjay wrote), you are merely worshipping > a >>> >low level form of the deity and can only get limited results. > But, >>> >as you worship them and get close to them, you may start > realizing >>> >the unlimited nature of those deities. >>>>> >>>>> For example, if you worship Ganesha with Atharva Seersham and >>> >understand the meaning, you will see that he is lauded as the one >>> >from whom the whole universe originates, in whom the whole > universe >>> >is stationed and into whom the whole universe merges at the time > of >>> >Destruction, the one who also takes the forms of Brahma, Vishnu, >>> >Rudra, Indra, Agni etc etc. Only if you imagine such a higher >>> >aakaasa tattva form of Ganesha that is close to formlessness can >>> >Ganesha give you moksha. >>>>> >>>>> Similarly, with all higher deities who are muktas even as they >>> >exist in a form, you can worship the lower form for specific > limited >>> >results or worship the higher forms that are close to > formlessness >>> >and get moksha from them. >>>>> >>>>> Enough for today.. >>>>> >>>>> May the light of Brahman shine within, >>>>> Narasimha >>>>> ----------------------------- > -- >>>>> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net >>>>> Free Jyotish software (Windows): > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org >>>>> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: > http://www.SriJagannath.org >>>>> ----------------------------- > -- >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 , "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <clarity2020 wrote: > > c) more animals are being promoted to human lives, and sometimes one > wonders if that indeed is what is going on, following empirical > testing! And how do you account of those human lives that promote themselves to animals? There are a few that reckon my reversing the ape evolution But seriously, there's also the matter of matter, and how its sum is unchanged... one of the most incredible truths around us! +++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 The point to be noted was: the population of human beings is increasing dramatically even during recent time periods. If as you say, some/many of the humans are moving into lower species as they are sometimes called -- then where are the extra humans coming from? Perhaps some may be promoted from lower species, but it is quite possible that some are beings from Satyaloka as the discussion was going. Now I hope someone, just for the heck of it does not add a twist to this and say that all extinct species are being promoted to become humans or something, because energy is constant and cannot be created or destroyed ;-) RR , "vernalagnia" <vernalagnia wrote: > > , "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" > <clarity2020@> wrote: > > > > c) more animals are being promoted to human lives, and sometimes one > > wonders if that indeed is what is going on, following empirical > > testing! > > > And how do you account of those human lives that promote themselves to > animals? There are a few that reckon my reversing the ape evolution > > But seriously, there's also the matter of matter, and how its sum is > unchanged... one of the most incredible truths around us! > > +++ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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