Oneness and Manyness of Forms (What Parasara Advocates...)

[Guest guest]

Pranaam Sanjay,

 

> This statement of philosophy is fine for beginners and the list. Don't waste

> my time with this.

> That is why I say that the understanding of jyotish depends on how high one

> gets in undrstanding the philosophies.

 

I tried my best to highlight how all forms essentially give a similar experience after you reach a certain spiritual development stage and yet how choice of a specific form can be important in deciding how fast you reach that stage. IMHO, there are many valuable lessons hidden in the analogy I put forward.

 

Out of all the mails I have written on this subject so far, I personally consider the latest mail the best and the most lucid. Unfortunately, I cannot expect everyone to share my sentiments! So, thank you for your feedback.

 

I am sorry my effort was found to be a waste of time by you. I will try to not waste your time in future.

 

> Pranam Narasimhaji,

>

> This is is beautiful write up.

>

> With my limited understanding, I would surely belive the statement:

> "But a devotee of Kaali like Ramakrishna will eventually reach the

> stage where he sees Kaali in flowers, trees etc (just as you may

> aspire to see Vishnu in everything). A great devotee of Shiva will

> eventually see Shiva in everything."

>

> Paramhamsa Yogananda saw Kali in the vastness of the night sky.

>

> Thanks

>

> Souvik

 

Dear Souvik, thank you for your kind words.

 

Also, Hari, thank you for quoting Abhinava Vidyatirtha Mahaswamigal. Very wise words indeed.

 

May the light of Brahman shine within,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

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-------------------------------

 

> | om gurave namah |

> Dear Narasimha

> This statement of philosophy is fine for beginners and the list. Don't waste

> my time with this.

> It is obvious that it is you who is still stuck with name and are not

> willing to accept that vishnu really means sarva-vyapakesa or shiva is a

> bala-naama (Dayananda saraswati in Rig Veda translation) etc.

> That is why I say that the understanding of jyotish depends on how high one

> gets in undrstanding the philosophies.

> In any case this still does not give your viewpoint about 9th house and 12th

> house and form etc...so I am ending the discussion here as I leave you to

> think.

> I am going to be off lists for a month at least for now as I have to go to

> Novi Sad, Serbia.

> Best wishes and warm regards,

> Sanjay Rath

>

>

> _____

>

> Pranaam Sanjay,

>

> > (1) Given that Parasara explicitly mentioned Shiva and Gouri in the

> context

> > of ishta devata, I take objection to anyone who claims that they cannot be

> > ishta devatas and only Vishnu's forms can be.

> > [s.Rath:] Again form! There is no form in the 12th house. There cannot be

> a

> > form in the 12th house. This is where everykind of form ends. This is

> where

> > the body or bodies end. This is the state of the body at death.

>

> Let me respectfully remind you that this whole discussion is about forms. I

> will write a little later on why different forms are even needed.

>

> > Have I not given such a clear and lucid explanation about the meaning of

> > 12th house and vishnu as 'sarva-vyapakesa'. Then tell me from the physical

> > universe viewpoint.

> > Is vishnu there in the flower? The answer is yes

> > Is Vishnu there in the tree? The answer is yes

>

> That's all fine. But a devotee of Kaali like Ramakrishna will eventually

> reach the stage where he sees Kaali in flowers, trees etc (just as you may

> aspire to see Vishnu in everything). A great devotee of Shiva will

> eventually see Shiva in everything.

>

> It is possible to devote to several deities and eventually start seeing the

> deity in everything that exists.

>

> Even as you exclaim "again form!", you ARE getting lost in forms and

> thinking that only Vishnu's form has the characteristic you explained above.

>

> In order to explain this more clearly, let me go back to the analogy I gave

> earlier. This fantastic analogy is from my spiritual guru.

>

> -------------- Quote Begin --------------

> Imagine God to be a bright star in the sky. When you see from a distance,

> star seems tiny and you conclude that there is only one God. If you start

> moving towards God, you realize as you get closer that the star is in

> reality a huge diamond with 330 million faces. Each face is several miles

> long and wide and has various attributes (gunas). One face may be red and

> hot and another may be blue and cold etc. So, as you get closer to the

> diamond, you have to pick one face to get close to.

>

> Now, when you get too close to a face, the whole world will seem to have the

> attributes of that face. For example, if you get too close to a face that is

> cold and blue, then the whole world will feel cold and blue to you. In other

> words, the God you are getting close to is the Supreme god of the world and

> fills the entire world as you experience it.

>

> This is the ultimate goal in sadhana for one adhering to Dwaita siddhanta

> (duality). For them, getting close to ishta devata and securing a place near

> the feet is the highest goal.

>

> For some, there is a next stage: As you get closer and closer to the face

> you picked, you finally merge with it! This is the ultimate goal in sadhana

> for one adhering to Visishtaadwaita.

>

> To Advaitis, this communion with a Saguna ("with attributes") form of God is

> not the final goal. The final goal is to break through the face and jump

> into the inside of the diamond. As you break through the face of the diamond

> into which you merge and jump into the interior of the diamond, you no

> longer perceive the faces of the diamond or the world outside. There are no

> longer any objects or attributes. The experiencer, experienced and

> experience all merge into one.

> -------------- Quote End --------------

>

> Read the above analogy carefully. Imagine Vishnu, Shiva etc to be faces of

> the diamond in the above analogy. If you get too close to Vishnu, you will

> indeed see Vishnu in everything and you 'realize' that Vishnu is the supreme

> god of this universe and fills everything that exists. You see Vishnu in

> even Shiva. Similarly, if you get too close to Shiva, you will indeed see

> Shiva in everything and you 'realize' that Shiva is the supreme god of this

> universe and fills everything that exists. You see Shiva in even Vishnu.

>

> It is as simple as that.

>

> But then, one may ask what is the importance of picking ishta devata based

> on chart. If it is possible to see Vishnu in Shiva or Shiva in Vishnu, what

> is the big deal in choosing a deity? Why can't one pray to a random deity?

>

> The answer is that the stage of perceiving the ishta devata in all gods and

> everything that exists has not been reached by most people. Our ishta devata

> prescriptions are for people who are yet to reach that stage. In terms of my

> analogy, the journey to different faces of the diamond takes different times

> based on where you stand right now. If you pick a face that is closest to

> you based on where you are, you reach the diamond faster. For example, if

> you choose a face on the other side, it will take considerably longer to

> reach it. On the contrary, if you select a face that is closest to you, you

> reach it faster.

>

> Similarly, if you choose a form (face of the diamond of divinity) that is

> closest to you based on where you stand in karmic evolution (i.e. based on

> all previous karmas and samskaras), you reach god faster. Once you reach the

> chosen face and get too close to it, you will see that deity in the entire

> universe. Someone with different samskaras may choose a different deity and

> reach a different face and that person will see that deity in the entire

> universe. There is no contradiction here!

>

> Thus, while trying to surrender to a random deity may eventually work,

> surrendering to some specific deities may work faster based on your previous

> karmas. That is what astrologers should try to figure out. Instead of

> setting one on a different course, if we help one continue the course one

> was on already (from various lives), we would have done a good thing!

>

> Thus, my humble appeal is this: Let us not restrict to one deity (e.g.

> Vishnu) based on OUR OWN samskaras. Let us recommend all deities based on

> the native's inclination, samskaras and karmas.

>

> I hope my view on prescribing only Vishnu's avataras as ishta devatas is

> better understood after this detailed mail!

>

> * * *

> <snip>

>

> May the light of Brahman shine within,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------